Help my brother pick a laptop
August 24, 2007 11:24 AM Subscribe
Help my younger brother figure out what laptop to buy. He's finally decided to get a computer after surviving for most of his life with whatever's available at college, or now at work. He doesn't seem to be in the market for a Mac, and I've made it my business to know as little about PCs as possible. But this is family.
My brother isn't really a techie type. He just wants a portable computer that he can do some work on at home (check e-mail, use Word/Excel) and also watch DVDs and do some light gaming. He's concerned that a Macbook wouldn't be compatible with the games he already has or hopes to buy, and installing Parallels to run those things is too much of a leap. He's also heard some vague warnings against Dells in the past and has ruled them out.
He walked into a Best Buy and got a recommendation for an HP DV-2550 for $950. That's about the limit of his price range. I'd like some help understanding the field here. Is this a good price for what he's asking? Or seem like a good fit for his needs? Where do HPs fall on the continuum of good to bad laptops?
Finally, what about picking up a much nicer used PC laptop on Craigslist/eBay? I'd consider this for a Mac without much question, but I don't know if PCs hold up well enough to consider secondhand for someone who doesn't want to spend a lot of time on configuration.
My brother isn't really a techie type. He just wants a portable computer that he can do some work on at home (check e-mail, use Word/Excel) and also watch DVDs and do some light gaming. He's concerned that a Macbook wouldn't be compatible with the games he already has or hopes to buy, and installing Parallels to run those things is too much of a leap. He's also heard some vague warnings against Dells in the past and has ruled them out.
He walked into a Best Buy and got a recommendation for an HP DV-2550 for $950. That's about the limit of his price range. I'd like some help understanding the field here. Is this a good price for what he's asking? Or seem like a good fit for his needs? Where do HPs fall on the continuum of good to bad laptops?
Finally, what about picking up a much nicer used PC laptop on Craigslist/eBay? I'd consider this for a Mac without much question, but I don't know if PCs hold up well enough to consider secondhand for someone who doesn't want to spend a lot of time on configuration.
For the $950 in a windows laptop, you should get, at a minimum:
- dual core processor at 2 GHZ
- 2 GB RAM
- 160 GB HD @5400 RPM or 120 GB @7200 RPM
- dual-layer DVD burner, possibly with lightscribe
- 15" widescreen
Any specs less than that and the $950 looks pretty steep.
posted by yesster at 11:36 AM on August 24, 2007
- dual core processor at 2 GHZ
- 2 GB RAM
- 160 GB HD @5400 RPM or 120 GB @7200 RPM
- dual-layer DVD burner, possibly with lightscribe
- 15" widescreen
Any specs less than that and the $950 looks pretty steep.
posted by yesster at 11:36 AM on August 24, 2007
Also, I wouldnt buy used. At these prices its not worth the hassle and uncertainty.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:36 AM on August 24, 2007
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:36 AM on August 24, 2007
I'm a bargain hunter for most things, but I'd say stick with new or factory-refurbished for laptops. It's not that it's a lot less likely to break, but that you want it to be under warranty when it inevitably does.
Refurbished Thinkpads used to be a pretty good deal, but I'm not sure where they stand now that they're owned by Lenovo.
posted by contraption at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2007
Refurbished Thinkpads used to be a pretty good deal, but I'm not sure where they stand now that they're owned by Lenovo.
posted by contraption at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2007
Also this inspiron for 699 is pretty nice. HP has this model on sale today too.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2007
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2007
Lastly, The only thing to be careful about with laptops is that the video not upgradable. So if he likes games he should not get a laptop with an intel video card. Only nvidia and ati.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:41 AM on August 24, 2007
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:41 AM on August 24, 2007
Consider CostCo as your vendor. They have a 6 month no questions asked return policy on laptops so you can buy without risk and they are cheap. The down side is you are limited to a narrow range of a half a dozen laptops but they usually run the spectrum. I got my DV9000 there and it was at least a $100 cheaper than comparable models else where.
posted by Mitheral at 11:48 AM on August 24, 2007
posted by Mitheral at 11:48 AM on August 24, 2007
I'd go with Thinkpad. Reliable, no crap, good build quality.
Wanting to do gaming is a challenge; most gaming laptops are expensive, hot, and have terrible battery lifetime. Thinkpad sells a few variants of their normal laptops with gaming video cards that are good. I have a T60 with an ATI Radeon X1300 I like quite a bit.
posted by Nelson at 11:58 AM on August 24, 2007
Wanting to do gaming is a challenge; most gaming laptops are expensive, hot, and have terrible battery lifetime. Thinkpad sells a few variants of their normal laptops with gaming video cards that are good. I have a T60 with an ATI Radeon X1300 I like quite a bit.
posted by Nelson at 11:58 AM on August 24, 2007
I love my HP Pavilion. Dell has crappy support (I've heard...)
posted by wafaa at 12:06 PM on August 24, 2007
posted by wafaa at 12:06 PM on August 24, 2007
If you're buying through eBay, make sure the warranty is transferrable. If not, don't bother.
If your brother's willing to do some research, he could go through some of the bargain sites out there (fatwallet, slickdeals, etc etc) and probably save quite a bit of money over what you'd get by talking to sales reps.
posted by Muu at 12:11 PM on August 24, 2007
If your brother's willing to do some research, he could go through some of the bargain sites out there (fatwallet, slickdeals, etc etc) and probably save quite a bit of money over what you'd get by talking to sales reps.
posted by Muu at 12:11 PM on August 24, 2007
Ditto what Muu said...always check Newegg.
That said, I love my Thinkpad. It is extremely durable and has survived three years of me throwing it around and trekking it all over the place. Much better than the POS Inspiron I had before that, whose screen fell off.
posted by radioamy at 12:36 PM on August 24, 2007
That said, I love my Thinkpad. It is extremely durable and has survived three years of me throwing it around and trekking it all over the place. Much better than the POS Inspiron I had before that, whose screen fell off.
posted by radioamy at 12:36 PM on August 24, 2007
Oh, and you are going to get so many different people recommnding different brands (as I just did). Pay more attention to specs. Don't get sucked into a machine with a Celeron processor, those are worthless. Also, remember that the price jumps a bit once you add Windows, Anti-Virus, etc.
posted by radioamy at 12:37 PM on August 24, 2007
posted by radioamy at 12:37 PM on August 24, 2007
Response by poster: On notebook review, the closest I could find to the laptop he's considering is an HP DV-2500. When I compare it to yesster's specs, above, it only has a 14" screen and 1GB of Ram. That seems to argue that the HP is either overpriced or underperforming.
Do others agree with yester's specification-to-price equation above?
posted by Jeff Howard at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2007
Do others agree with yester's specification-to-price equation above?
posted by Jeff Howard at 1:03 PM on August 24, 2007
I would recommend a HP Pavillion DV-6000 series. Beautiful displays, powerful (get 2GB of RAM though, especially for Vista), and neat media features.
You can usually find them on sale at big electronics chains or office supply chains (staples, etc) for around 600-700 after rebates.
posted by ijoyner at 1:20 PM on August 24, 2007
You can usually find them on sale at big electronics chains or office supply chains (staples, etc) for around 600-700 after rebates.
posted by ijoyner at 1:20 PM on August 24, 2007
About the Dells, I remember around 2003 or so, when I was looking for my college laptop, online reviews were complaining a lot about how low the build quality of the laptops had sunk, and I've got [hours upon hours of] first-hand experience with how poor their customer service has gotten. I'd imagine, like anything else, they cut costs, eventually consumer backlash set in and the pendulum swung back in quality, but, y'know. Meh.
Agreed on not getting something used. If word processing were the only thing he's going to be doing, you could pick up just about anything - it's the watching movies and gaming that would probably make the difference (and for that matter, as online webmail pages become more complex, visiting them on really old computers will become that much harder/slower).
Laptops are delicate creatures, so as long as it makes financial sense, having the lesser wear of something new and with a longish warranty can save you money in the long run. Case in point - as soon as my Toshiba Satellite's one-year warranty ran out, motherboard failed, AC plug came loose (and, more recently, came off), ultimately, two-thousand-some dollars down the tubes. I've replaced it with a ThinkPad, 3 year warranty, haven't needed to get it repaired during the last two (though it's a little clunky about shutting down sometimes). I'll stick up for the build quality and battery life of ThinkPads, but after all these years, they still aren't very stylish, the built-in speakers are still usually tinny, but at least on last glance, they're slightly pricier than the average Circuit City floor model, and in regards to mail order, in 2005 (right after the Lenovo handover), I remember mine taking over a month to arrive.
With whatever company, he might look into a higher voltage battery - something that's always lost in the shuffle of system configuration details like HD size, memory, etc. - on mine, my 9V battery (at least used to) power my computer for over 6 hours, which really has wound up coming in handy.
But from what I understand, while HP doesn't have the build quality of a Mac or ThinkPad, and I know that at least for their printers, their customer support is pretty bleh, I don't hear as many bad things about their laptops as I have about Dell's.
posted by stleric at 1:42 PM on August 24, 2007
Agreed on not getting something used. If word processing were the only thing he's going to be doing, you could pick up just about anything - it's the watching movies and gaming that would probably make the difference (and for that matter, as online webmail pages become more complex, visiting them on really old computers will become that much harder/slower).
Laptops are delicate creatures, so as long as it makes financial sense, having the lesser wear of something new and with a longish warranty can save you money in the long run. Case in point - as soon as my Toshiba Satellite's one-year warranty ran out, motherboard failed, AC plug came loose (and, more recently, came off), ultimately, two-thousand-some dollars down the tubes. I've replaced it with a ThinkPad, 3 year warranty, haven't needed to get it repaired during the last two (though it's a little clunky about shutting down sometimes). I'll stick up for the build quality and battery life of ThinkPads, but after all these years, they still aren't very stylish, the built-in speakers are still usually tinny, but at least on last glance, they're slightly pricier than the average Circuit City floor model, and in regards to mail order, in 2005 (right after the Lenovo handover), I remember mine taking over a month to arrive.
With whatever company, he might look into a higher voltage battery - something that's always lost in the shuffle of system configuration details like HD size, memory, etc. - on mine, my 9V battery (at least used to) power my computer for over 6 hours, which really has wound up coming in handy.
But from what I understand, while HP doesn't have the build quality of a Mac or ThinkPad, and I know that at least for their printers, their customer support is pretty bleh, I don't hear as many bad things about their laptops as I have about Dell's.
posted by stleric at 1:42 PM on August 24, 2007
I used to do HP Omnibook support (their business brand), worked at HP for about 5 years, and have been doing PC IT admin support for about 10 years.
My advice would be (if you can) to stay away from any manufacturers "consumer line" of laptops. The build-quality between "consumer grade" and "small/med business grade" is noticeable. So even though it may cost a little bit more, ordering from a manufacturers "business" section of their website will (typically) get you a more reliable model than a consumer grade.
I agree with others that Thinkpads generally have a pretty good reputation in the business. Given a choice between Dell and HP, I'd probably go with HP only because thats what I know. Personally I think their build quality is about the same (not bad, but not great).
If you are going to invest near $1000 in a laptop, make sure you get the extended warranty AND a nice protective laptop bag ( I recommend www.spireusa.com ). Blows my mind when people spend lots of good money on a laptop and then dont spent the small extra chunk to protect it.
Imagine every time you use (or carry) your laptop that you are handling a $1000 stack of cash, and I guarantee you you'll take better care of it, and it will last.
posted by jmnugent at 3:37 PM on August 24, 2007
My advice would be (if you can) to stay away from any manufacturers "consumer line" of laptops. The build-quality between "consumer grade" and "small/med business grade" is noticeable. So even though it may cost a little bit more, ordering from a manufacturers "business" section of their website will (typically) get you a more reliable model than a consumer grade.
I agree with others that Thinkpads generally have a pretty good reputation in the business. Given a choice between Dell and HP, I'd probably go with HP only because thats what I know. Personally I think their build quality is about the same (not bad, but not great).
If you are going to invest near $1000 in a laptop, make sure you get the extended warranty AND a nice protective laptop bag ( I recommend www.spireusa.com ). Blows my mind when people spend lots of good money on a laptop and then dont spent the small extra chunk to protect it.
Imagine every time you use (or carry) your laptop that you are handling a $1000 stack of cash, and I guarantee you you'll take better care of it, and it will last.
posted by jmnugent at 3:37 PM on August 24, 2007
Today was my last day working in the computer department at a bookstore where they sell Lenovo and Apple laptops. Here's what I know:
-I wouldn't buy a Dell right now. There's an industry-wide laptop screen shortage that's especially affecting the build quality of their laptops, since they're one of the biggest manufacturers, and since this is probably the biggest back-to-school laptop sales quarter in history. I've heard horror stories from customers coming into our store (looking for a replacement laptop to purchase!) who ordered Dells more than a month ago and still haven't received them, or who ordered Dells and only learned once they received them that they'd shipped out with substandard components or other changes made—without their consent.
-I also wouldn't buy a Lenovo Thinkpad now. They're having the same screen issues Dell is (all these PC laptops use the same size screens—surprise!), and they're also putting order arrival dates at like a month out, at least. (Although as Comrade_robot notes, they'll tell you it'll arrive in two weeks. They're lying.) The bookstore has actually stopped taking Lenovo orders right now, because Lenovo can't even tell us when special-ordered computers will arrive, much less regular store stock.
-I would never buy a Lenovo in the first place, though, 'cause their standard configurations ship with 5400 rpm hard drives, low processor speeds, and barely enough memory. Perhaps you can configure one to order on their website—but again, there's no telling when the laptop would actually arrive.
-My younger brother just got his laptop for college from Apple (luckily ordered/received it just before the laptop screen shortage really hit and even Apple's order times started to become affected). He got the configuration I recommend to most people looking to buy a reasonably priced Apple laptop for the things your brother has in mind (apart from gaming): a white MacBook 13" bumped up to 1 GB of RAM and a 2.16 GHz processor. This machine might not be amazing for the gaming applications you have in mind, but then again, my brother does plan to use it for video editing and such, and it seems like it's going to be OK for that.
So...that's the stuff I would and wouldn't recommend to most consumers.
For your brother, well...I don't know exactly what to recommend—I'd say a MacBook Pro 17", 'cause they at least have a decent video card, but it costs way more than your brother's budget would allow for, and plus, as mentioned above, the upgradeability of those is suspect, and the video card it ships with is most of the benefit you get from having one, as far as I can tell, apart from having a larger screen and [what some people think is] a nicer keyboard. Wouldn't say that's ideal.
I'd see what the other manufacturers have to offer. Maybe Alienware has something in its lower-end range that might work, and still be upgradeable...?
posted by limeonaire at 4:39 PM on August 24, 2007
-I wouldn't buy a Dell right now. There's an industry-wide laptop screen shortage that's especially affecting the build quality of their laptops, since they're one of the biggest manufacturers, and since this is probably the biggest back-to-school laptop sales quarter in history. I've heard horror stories from customers coming into our store (looking for a replacement laptop to purchase!) who ordered Dells more than a month ago and still haven't received them, or who ordered Dells and only learned once they received them that they'd shipped out with substandard components or other changes made—without their consent.
-I also wouldn't buy a Lenovo Thinkpad now. They're having the same screen issues Dell is (all these PC laptops use the same size screens—surprise!), and they're also putting order arrival dates at like a month out, at least. (Although as Comrade_robot notes, they'll tell you it'll arrive in two weeks. They're lying.) The bookstore has actually stopped taking Lenovo orders right now, because Lenovo can't even tell us when special-ordered computers will arrive, much less regular store stock.
-I would never buy a Lenovo in the first place, though, 'cause their standard configurations ship with 5400 rpm hard drives, low processor speeds, and barely enough memory. Perhaps you can configure one to order on their website—but again, there's no telling when the laptop would actually arrive.
-My younger brother just got his laptop for college from Apple (luckily ordered/received it just before the laptop screen shortage really hit and even Apple's order times started to become affected). He got the configuration I recommend to most people looking to buy a reasonably priced Apple laptop for the things your brother has in mind (apart from gaming): a white MacBook 13" bumped up to 1 GB of RAM and a 2.16 GHz processor. This machine might not be amazing for the gaming applications you have in mind, but then again, my brother does plan to use it for video editing and such, and it seems like it's going to be OK for that.
So...that's the stuff I would and wouldn't recommend to most consumers.
For your brother, well...I don't know exactly what to recommend—I'd say a MacBook Pro 17", 'cause they at least have a decent video card, but it costs way more than your brother's budget would allow for, and plus, as mentioned above, the upgradeability of those is suspect, and the video card it ships with is most of the benefit you get from having one, as far as I can tell, apart from having a larger screen and [what some people think is] a nicer keyboard. Wouldn't say that's ideal.
I'd see what the other manufacturers have to offer. Maybe Alienware has something in its lower-end range that might work, and still be upgradeable...?
posted by limeonaire at 4:39 PM on August 24, 2007
Ehh, if he's worried about compatibility, this is exactly the wrong time to buy a new Windows machine. Vista is not so good at the working with stuff you already own.
It may well be worth his time to find a machine that still comes with XP Pro (or media center edition. Not XP Home). Less showy, certainly, but more likely to work.
My experience with Dell's support has been very good, actually. Some family members of mine buy Dells exclusively (and always pony up for the 3 year coverage) because they've had such good luck with the support over the years. I'm writing this on a 2 year-old Dell notebook and I can't complain.
That said, if I had the money, I'd go buy a Mac today. Get a Wii for video games.
As for other Windows-based brands with which I have personal experience, Gateway really (*really*) let down a family member of mine after I vouched for their reputation (to the Dell faithful) a few years back. HP stuff is usually fine. I've never heard anyone complain about their Thinkpad (only how long it took to get one). I cannot recommend Acer in good conscience.
posted by willpie at 8:09 PM on August 24, 2007
It may well be worth his time to find a machine that still comes with XP Pro (or media center edition. Not XP Home). Less showy, certainly, but more likely to work.
My experience with Dell's support has been very good, actually. Some family members of mine buy Dells exclusively (and always pony up for the 3 year coverage) because they've had such good luck with the support over the years. I'm writing this on a 2 year-old Dell notebook and I can't complain.
That said, if I had the money, I'd go buy a Mac today. Get a Wii for video games.
As for other Windows-based brands with which I have personal experience, Gateway really (*really*) let down a family member of mine after I vouched for their reputation (to the Dell faithful) a few years back. HP stuff is usually fine. I've never heard anyone complain about their Thinkpad (only how long it took to get one). I cannot recommend Acer in good conscience.
posted by willpie at 8:09 PM on August 24, 2007
The reason I've always bought Dell laptops is their next-day on-site service. The 2 in the house now are 2 years old (D610 and 700m), and I've used that service several times. For example, my kid has knocked each of them onto the floor, landing on the power plug and breaking the power socket. Got a new motherboard installed by Dell the next day each time, once at my office and once at home. Both times, the replacement motherboard was FedEx'd to a local contracted service tech, who phoned me by 10am the next day to find out when he could come install it. Quick and easy.
Same story when the 700m suffered a funky blue/purple 2mm straight line down one side of the screen, probably due to EMF from a nearby lightning hit. New screen installed by a Dell-contracted tech on my kitchen counter by 1pm the next day.
Oh, and recently I broke off a key on the D610's keyboard. I told the CSR that I've swapped a few keyboards on laptops in my day, so Dell emailed me the link to their online repair guide showing the (easy) process, and overnighted a keyboard directly to me, and said to call back if it turned out that I needed them to send a technician to help me.
Since I've relied on Dell's "Complete Care" and "Next Business Day On Site" services for 6 or 7 years, I've never bothered to find out if any other manufacturer has such quick reliable hardware service. This level of coverage costs me about $100 per laptop per year, and I always buy 3 years' worth when I buy a new laptop. This coverage belongs to the device, not to me, so it transfers to the new owner if I sell the laptop. I've heard that HP has added similar service plans, but most others require shipping the laptop in for repair. Does Lenovo or Apple offer this level of coverage? My income is dependent on me having a functioning laptop, so I couldn't own one that had to be shipped off for hardware repairs.
posted by Bradley at 11:11 PM on August 24, 2007
Same story when the 700m suffered a funky blue/purple 2mm straight line down one side of the screen, probably due to EMF from a nearby lightning hit. New screen installed by a Dell-contracted tech on my kitchen counter by 1pm the next day.
Oh, and recently I broke off a key on the D610's keyboard. I told the CSR that I've swapped a few keyboards on laptops in my day, so Dell emailed me the link to their online repair guide showing the (easy) process, and overnighted a keyboard directly to me, and said to call back if it turned out that I needed them to send a technician to help me.
Since I've relied on Dell's "Complete Care" and "Next Business Day On Site" services for 6 or 7 years, I've never bothered to find out if any other manufacturer has such quick reliable hardware service. This level of coverage costs me about $100 per laptop per year, and I always buy 3 years' worth when I buy a new laptop. This coverage belongs to the device, not to me, so it transfers to the new owner if I sell the laptop. I've heard that HP has added similar service plans, but most others require shipping the laptop in for repair. Does Lenovo or Apple offer this level of coverage? My income is dependent on me having a functioning laptop, so I couldn't own one that had to be shipped off for hardware repairs.
posted by Bradley at 11:11 PM on August 24, 2007
I'm on my third Dell laptop (and probably my last, since I'm moving to a Mac, but that's a separate story). I've been happy enough with Dell service the two times I've had to use it. I've bought mid-end (e.g., 600m), and they laptops have taken a lot of abuse. I wouldn't touch their entry-level laptops (nor any other vendors' low-end stuff--it's all too cheaply made).
You can save a substantial amount of money on Dells by buying refurbished. Refurbs are often custom orders that got cancelled, so chances are good that you're actually buying new hardware. Do the math on buying extra RAM through Dell vs. 3rd party (e.g., Crucial).
The 600m runs Ubuntu just fine, if that's of any interest.
posted by dws at 11:49 AM on August 25, 2007
You can save a substantial amount of money on Dells by buying refurbished. Refurbs are often custom orders that got cancelled, so chances are good that you're actually buying new hardware. Do the math on buying extra RAM through Dell vs. 3rd party (e.g., Crucial).
The 600m runs Ubuntu just fine, if that's of any interest.
posted by dws at 11:49 AM on August 25, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks for the advice everyone!
posted by Jeff Howard at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2007
posted by Jeff Howard at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2007
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posted by damn dirty ape at 11:36 AM on August 24, 2007