Who knows women like the gays??
August 2, 2007 7:47 PM   Subscribe

How does your average awkward straight fellow go about finding a gay friend to help with the ladies?

Being the observant sort I have come to notice that a good number of gay guys I know tend to hang out with large groups of incredibly good looking girls. I have also noticed that they have a much easier repor when meeting said lovelies. Now as for me I am actually incredibly charismatic once I am comfortable with people, I am the kind of guy who grows on you. Furthermore I have been told I am good looking enough that I can see it being true, even if I wouldnt admit it outside of the internets. Yet I am also incredibly socially awkward and I have come to the conclusion that I am ready to start dating again, but I need a little help.

I have friends, but they are generally spread out or, in committed relationships so not really the best candidates for the ever important wingman position. Also the closest thing I have to a gay friend in this city is my ex-GF and that doesnt fly for obvious reasons (such as if it were up to me we would still be together, but that is neither here nor there). I am an open minded guy, and I personally know 1 gay guy who would fit the bill, problematically the one who would best fit the bill is my ex's BFF and he lives in Raleigh (I am in DC).

I know there are gay bars around my house and stuff, and while I am reasonably certain therein reside gays, I don't know if its an appropriate place to go to try and find a platonic friend who will help me out with the ladies (a fairy godmother if you will).

I really hope this isnt being construed improperly, I am not trying to take advantage of anyone, nor am I stereotyping. I am just a nice guy who noticed that hot girls seem to gravitate to the gays, I am just naive about these things, but I think I have a good plan, I just need to find a gay friend to make it work.
posted by BobbyDigital to Human Relations (82 answers total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
My experience is that the main reason women like gay guys is that gay guys don't hit on them, and they don't need to feel defensive around gay guys.

So what you're saying is that you want to find a gay guy to help you hit on these women who hang around with gay guys because they don't want to be hit on. Do I have that straight?

What I'm trying to say is that your strategy here contains the seeds of its own failure because of internal contradiction.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 7:51 PM on August 2, 2007 [9 favorites]

I have honestly never heard of such an idea in my entire life.

I would think that walking into a gay bar and saying "Hey, I want you to help me pick up chicks!" would not be such a great way to accomplish your idea.
posted by DMan at 7:52 PM on August 2, 2007

Gay men are surrounded by hot women, in part because it's tough to go out being a hot woman and have straight guys hit on you and be weird all the time. Hanging out with gay guys means you can just be fabulous and hot and no one will bother you. I don't mean to imply that you are weird any more than you have implied it yourself, I'm just giving you a data point that may indicate that your master plan may not work.

However, this would be a decent and amusing thing to read on Craigslist and would probably in and of itself net some women who are like "you sound amusing, I'd like to meet you" and/or gay men who would like to help you out.
posted by jessamyn at 7:53 PM on August 2, 2007 [2 favorites]

Things only actually work like this in the movies or on tv. As SCDB says, women may feel more comfortable doing strictly 'friend' type things around gay men than straight men because they know the former aren't going to be wondering if it might turn into something more. You would have better luck with dating sites, doing activities/volunteer work, etc. where you meet a wide range of people with similar interests, and the like.
posted by frobozz at 7:58 PM on August 2, 2007

Response by poster: I want to stress that I am not really a "hit on" type guy, it makes me feel gross unless I am really drunk, at which point I am not that charming.

I just noticed that they are better at breaking the ice then I am, and I dont think that I would get that far by complimenting a girls shoes.

Or they could be like "you are so pretty, you know my friend Bobby? He is also single, I think you would hit it off with him".
posted by BobbyDigital at 7:59 PM on August 2, 2007

Queer Eye to the rescue!
posted by extrabox at 7:59 PM on August 2, 2007

Yeah, see, the reason women hang out with gay men is because it gives them a break from dealing with guys who are so desperate to get into a woman's pants that that they'd actually formulate a plan to totally use someone and pretend to want to be friends with them -- without actually caring about them at all -- JUST TO HIT ON THEIR FEMALE FRIENDS.

My Lord. Guys like you make us wish we were gay.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:03 PM on August 2, 2007 [13 favorites]

Fast forward 3 months to a romantic date with your new girlfriend..

As she finished her sandwich she turned to him and said, "Hey Bobby - remember that friend of yours that you were hanging out with the night we met?" "Yea, sure.", Bobby said.

"He seemed nice. We should invite him over for diinner. He was lots of fun. What was his name anyway, and why don't you hang out anymore" she asked.


How exactly would you explain that one?
posted by jlowen at 8:04 PM on August 2, 2007

Response by poster: Barring my crazy scheme above, which while I will maintain is theoretically sound does anyone know where I might go about finding a platonic (in the figurative sense, not the Plato sense) gay friend?
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:04 PM on August 2, 2007

Why not try just the part that makes 'teh gays' attract so many women? i.e. don't hit on them. What, are you in some sort of rush? You say you're the sort of guy who "grows on" people, so let that happen. Talk to them casually. Even walk away to chat with other folks in the establishment. Get to know them a bit and let them get to know you. Eventually enough of them in that scene will realize you aren't just out for pussy and that you genuinely like just hanging out with them. Chicks dig that shit.

Either that, or match your socks to your goddamn pants for a change!
posted by a_green_man at 8:06 PM on August 2, 2007 [1 favorite]

I want to stress that I am not really a "hit on" type guy, it makes me feel gross unless I am really drunk, at which point I am not that charming.

That's good. "Hit on" guys are annoying. That's why it would be better to try to meet women outside the bar/club scene in a place where you can have actual, reasonable, conversation; have such a conversation, and politely ask if they would like to have coffee or something.
Also, I'm sorry and don't mean to be rude, but please don't call women 'lovelies!' It makes people sound like they're talking of expensive jewelry.
posted by frobozz at 8:06 PM on August 2, 2007

Okay... so if you want advice from a gay guy on how to be around women, I understand that. But why don't you get to know some gay men because you think they are nice people you could learn from on various topics instead of solely with an agenda to lay their female friends?
posted by miss lynnster at 8:07 PM on August 2, 2007

Response by poster: I am pretty good at the outside a bar/club setting, but I feel like I ought to be going out more, as it does seem to be where most of the attractive people in my age group tend to try and meet other attractive people in our age group.

Also I will continue to wear whatever socks I find in the morning without prejudice towards color and fabric!
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:12 PM on August 2, 2007

Best answer: I think its a great idea. A good friend of mine used to hang out with a gay guy who wasn't even the most overtly gay person. But women got the vibe and he was always surrounded by models. The thing is, he was interested in the aesthetic of the beautiful women, not them as sexual beings. Consequently, the women felt safe but bored. My friend is an introverted sort and he didn't have to do ANYTHING, the women would ask for his phone number. They felt comfortable with him, because they were comfortable with his friend and him because he was then a friend of a friend, and the only straight male in the group. In fact, he met many women this way, including one long term gf.

How did he meet his gay friend? Well, they were and are best friends from college. The gay friend is one of those in-the-closet / everyone suspects are gay, not a queen at all. You might look for your gay friend at:
* pottery classes
* dance classes (it'll be 50 women and one gay man and you! Befriend the gay man)
* yoga classes
* fashion or fashionista events
* artsy/wine/style events

Basically any place where you would take a class or do an activity and it'll be 50 women 5 gay men, and 1 straight guy. The women will shoot you down, but the gay men will be all over you, and the women will be into the gayment
posted by zia at 8:13 PM on August 2, 2007 [1 favorite]


and the women will be into the gay men
posted by zia at 8:14 PM on August 2, 2007

Response by poster: I didnt want to come across as only wanting to be friends with a gay guy to meet his friends, but beyond that I do not think they would have anything to offer me that anyone else wouldn't as their sexual orientation ought not determine their character. I am just saying that specifically I have this theory that going out in the company of a gay friend would help me get better at talking to women.

Geez Louise, I am not doing a very good job of getting across that I am not a creep here, I am just sort of an idiot about these things.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:15 PM on August 2, 2007

Why don't you just adopt a really cute puppy? It serves the same purpose and the cute puppy doesn't mind that you are just using him to get women rather than being around him because you actually want to be their friend?
posted by spec80 at 8:15 PM on August 2, 2007 [3 favorites]

Response by poster: I actually have a degree ceramics! But nobody in my college program was gay (there were a few lesbians, but I generally didnt mind other peoples business) , it was mainly art hippies.

Hmm, dance class you say Probably ought to do pottery instead.
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:18 PM on August 2, 2007

Response by poster: spec80, I have thought of that as well, but while I do love dogs, I am not living in a situation while I have one, and I do not have the kind of money where I could take very good care of him if something bad happened so I think it would be irresponsible for me to have a creature depend on me at this point. Now if anyone knows about a rent a puppy service in the DC area...
posted by BobbyDigital at 8:20 PM on August 2, 2007

I TOTALLY agree. Get a puppy. Women like them even better than gay men. When you're enjoying the day walking a dog around you'll look very normal... women will come up to you because cute animals are irresistable magnets to most of us & your proximity to one will make you seem non-threatening. As opposed to befriending gay men so they can teach you how to talk to women, which is obviously not normal for you or you wouldn't be asking how to do it. So if we find out you're doing that, it'll creep us out.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:29 PM on August 2, 2007

Look, it's not hard:

1) Look them in the eyes and smile
2) Ask them about themselves
3) Listen and ask more
4) Notice how they look and compliment them on it
5) Repeat

p.s.: It works on dudes, too.
posted by wemayfreeze at 8:29 PM on August 2, 2007

Oh, didn't preview. Sorry.

What about pet sitting or dog walking? You would be helping other people by doing that.
posted by miss lynnster at 8:30 PM on August 2, 2007

BD, I think there is nothing wrong in befriending a gay man in the hunt for a female companion. BELIEVE ME, as a straight woman, if one of your new theoretical gay male friends sees a hot guy, he'll be out of there so fast, it'll be like being with the FLASH. I would think that most gay men (at least the one's I used to hang with in my twenties) would be the first to understand what you are doing. After all, they may be befriending you for the challenge of getting into your (straight) pants.
posted by zia at 8:31 PM on August 2, 2007

Best answer: My experience is that the main reason women like gay guys is that gay guys don't hit on them, and they don't need to feel defensive around gay guys....What I'm trying to say is that your strategy here contains the seeds of its own failure because of internal contradiction.

I think you're missing the point as are many in this thread. The straight guy doesnt show up and start hitting on them. He is just hanging out in the background and gets introduced in by his gay friend. Slow introduction into a social circle....thats exactly how you meet people.
posted by vacapinta at 8:31 PM on August 2, 2007

Also, I'm sorry but will all you "puppy" people, please answer the question. He's not asking about how to meet women. He's asking how to execute a particular idea he has...
posted by vacapinta at 8:35 PM on August 2, 2007

You know, some guy I knew did the puppy idea, but he was so obvious about his intentions girls went the opposite direction instead. In the end he didn't get the girl, but he was pretty content with the puppy.
posted by Karcy at 8:43 PM on August 2, 2007 [1 favorite]

He's asking how to execute a particular idea he has...

...which would result in the meeting of women. I find nothing wrong with providing a suggestion that would lead to the same result, but the OP ruled it out since it wouldn't work. It is an answer to his question.
posted by spec80 at 8:45 PM on August 2, 2007

Women like gay men because they all thought Sex and the City was a documentary. Having a gay friend is trendy, it has nothing to do with "not being hit on". If they didn't want to be hit on, they'd probably only hang out with other women.

While your idea would probably, ultimately work, I think there are much easier methods of meeting women. You should probably look into those first.
posted by borkingchikapa at 8:46 PM on August 2, 2007

"Slow introduction into a social circle....thats exactly how you meet people."

That's a lovely thought, but you seem to be ignoring the patently ridiculous/weird bits of the question.

Could the original poster please specify why a gay is required for this?
How is it that rather than just stopping in at some bar he'd be going to anyway and becoming acquainted with a (presumably also straight, but whatever) guy he might hang around with while hunting, he'd rather go poaching at the local gay bar for a "fairy godmother" with a supposed instant in?

"I am not trying to take advantage of anyone, nor am I stereotyping"
On both points: Oh?
posted by Su at 8:47 PM on August 2, 2007

Could the original poster please specify why a gay is required for this?

I dont see why he needs to explain himself to anybody. Regarding "why a gay," take it up with the people upthread who go on and on about how women feel safe with gay men. If the OP is stereotyping then they are too.
posted by vacapinta at 8:58 PM on August 2, 2007

Repeat after me:


Say that a thousand times. And another thousand.

Some gay men know lots of women. Some don't. How about just, oh, MAKING FRIENDS WITH PEOPLE WITHOUT ULTERIOR MOTIVES?

Seriously. Stereotypes are disgusting. Grow up--maybe then you'll meet a nice girl.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:04 PM on August 2, 2007 [12 favorites]

Best answer: You know what, I am usually extremely allergic to Clueless Het Male Syndrome, but I think this is kind of a cute idea.

I suggest you put the whole fairy-godmother part of the plan on the back burner and just focus on making some gay male friends. I have a feeling it may do you a world of good.

Seconding Jessmyn's Craigslist suggestion. Be sure you sound as endearingly clueless as you do here. Who knows, maybe some nice gay man is looking for a str8 friend.

Just promise me you'll be cool when they hit on you. Consider it part of the learning experience.
posted by ottereroticist at 9:06 PM on August 2, 2007 [1 favorite]

who knows women like the gays?

women do.

here's an idea: start listening to what they (the women, not the gays) have to say. listen and be open and nonjudgemental, you'll understand them better than you obviously do now.

besides that, it's cool that you're not narrow and you want to hang out with gay guys -- you'll have a lot of fun -- but to understand women you need to start listening to what women have to say.

and really, trying to hatch out a plan to pick up women like that is pretty lame, I'd discard the idea -- pretending to be interested in someone just to fuck them can be conductive to having a good time but in the end is not respectful and not constructive. but if women see that they're dealing with an intelligent man who cares about them listens to what they have to say, you'll actually be able to have a relationship. that will include sex, obviously.

if you just want to get laid and really cannot find now a woman who'll touch you, instead of hatching a crazy plan of learning tricks from gay guys, just hire a sex worker. it's not much more disrespectful towards women than actually using those alleged awesome secrets gay men know just to, you know, get laid.
posted by matteo at 9:08 PM on August 2, 2007

If I met a guy who was hanging out with gay guys, I'd just assume he was gay, until he made it clear otherwise, and then I'd really keep my distance.
posted by desjardins at 9:12 PM on August 2, 2007

Agree with matteo, except the sex worker bit. As a woman, I find guys who 'befriend' me with the intention of trying to bed me a real turn-off, no matter how polite or nice they are.

I think that while the basis of your plans are okay, your intentions might come off too obviously, and as you have already guessed when you asked your question, they're kind of distasteful. You'll probably scare of woman -and- gay. Who wants to be friends with someone who has an ulterior motive?

Hang out with people, find some interests, get along with people of similar interests. Some will be women, some will be homosexuals. Eventually things will happen. It's probably slower, but it's really the surest way of getting what you want without (a) coming off as a creep (b) coming off as manipulative or (c) coming off looking desperate.

Some alternatives to meeting women: have you tried going to the gym? I know some women go to the gym to check out other guys. You might find some gay guys there too.
posted by Karcy at 9:18 PM on August 2, 2007

So what does the gay guy get out of all of this?

If you're willing to return the favor for him and help him get dates, maybe this will work, but a pragmatic friendship like the one you describe won't work unless you really DO go out with him and act as his go-between as well.

I suspect if you put an ad on Craiglist, you'll get lots of responses from guys who think you're just in denial and really gay...so get ready for that.
posted by yellowcandy at 9:18 PM on August 2, 2007

Just a thought here - you will not be overnight BFF with your NEW! GAY! PAL! It's going to take time to become somebody's friend - as long as it would take for you to grow on a woman, for example. It might behoove you to just go straight to becoming friends with women, since you'll get a girlfriend in half the time.

To directly answer your question: the majority of gay people I know, I met through work. That's probably because I interact with more people there than anywhere else. That's also a good starting point since you already have something in common with whomever you're trying to befriend.

Regarding your not having any wingpeople: one of my close friends thinks I'm not up for wingwoman because I'm in a committed relationship, but that's not the case. You might want to see if your committed friends are up for it, since you just might be surprised.


In all seriousness though, gay people are people, not a prop for your love life. Wouldn't you be weirded out if some gay man (or a straight girl) wanted to be your new friend, since all the guys seem totally comfortable hanging around you and s/he wants to get to know them? This plan just seems a little skeevy (and sort of sounds like a screenplay just dying to be written if it hasn't been already).
posted by ml98tu at 9:21 PM on August 2, 2007

I know a small plurality of gay men, and only a few of them attract large numbers of female friends. Your idea may work, but it relies on finding an even more specific type of person than I think you intended, and even if you manage that there's still the fact that the whole thing is vaguely creepy. It may be easier if you set your goal as "find a friend with lots of straight female friends" without putting in the gay or male part. It's a broader group, and less exploitive seeming.

I like the cute puppy idea better though.
posted by Arturus at 9:26 PM on August 2, 2007

One of the more fun experiences I've had in my life was going out to the clubs to meet women with a couple of lesbians. As a straight guy it's a learning experience.

As an added bonus, they gave me great tactical advice.

Oh, stay away from her, she's way too high maintenance for you.

That one looks cute, but do you see the bitch line?
(a vertical line between eyebrows caused by scowling.)

See the way she's been drinking? She is looking for a mercy fuck.

Nope, this one's mine...

I didn't actually hook up once on these outings, but I had so much fun that I honestly didn't care. And if nothing else, sitting at a table with two lovely ladies who are sharing secrets from the other side? It's like being a spy and having the opposing force hand you their code books.

So yeah, gay guys are probably great. But for real advice, you gotta go with gay ladies.
posted by quin at 9:28 PM on August 2, 2007 [5 favorites]

ottereroticist, I like the way you think. and I hope you are treating those otters well

I would have to agree, try making some gay male friends. Y'know, as _just friends_.
posted by yohko at 9:32 PM on August 2, 2007

Another factor working against you - in my experience, most attractive gay men tend to hang out with... other attractive gay men, NOT groups of women. The gay men I've known who are friends with lots of women tend to be less attractive.

So, if I see an attractive unknown guy hanging out with a not-so-attractive gay guy, I am going to wonder what the hell is going on. Not that it's not possible, or I'm that shallow, but it's just unusual enough to cause me to notice.
posted by desjardins at 9:36 PM on August 2, 2007

My experience is that the main reason women like gay guys is that gay guys don't hit on them, and they don't need to feel defensive around gay guys.

This seems to have been accepted as the common wisdom in this thread, but I'd suggest that it's only one of a number of reasons, and probably not even the most important one.

Sure, it's refreshing to socialise with the opposite sex without all of that sexual maneouvring casting its shadow over things. I find myself spending a lot of time around dykes for this precise reason - you can get straight down to having fun & interacting without having to deal with each others' hidden sexual agendas.

However, I'd suggest that the reason a lot of women enjoy the company of gay men is not so much that they don't get hit on, but that straight guys are often, well, just plain lame & boring, too busy confining themselves within perceived gender roles, and that's when they're not being downright clueless or offensive.

Gay men are generally more free to express queerness, which involves adopting whatever behaviours one likes - masculine, feminine or other - and using these in any old way, especially if they subvert or parody the standard pigeonholes. Basically, it's a lot more fun, it's often a lot closer to a "feminine" way of behaving, and it avoids many of the uglier aspects of traditionally "masculine" behaviour - lack of emotion, lack of empathy, focus on self, projecting fears of difference, exaggerated macho lecherousness, constant talk of sport & self-aggrandisement with respect to work & income etc.

If it were simply a matter of not being hit upon, fewer women would be wanting to "convert" their gay male friends, and fewer would be complaining about how much straight men suck in comparison.

In response to your question, I'd suggest a slightly different tack: befriend gay men in order to develop your own brand of queerness. You needn't switch teams, but you might just find it liberating, and in the process, you might actually become more like the gays who get along so easily with the hotties, rather than using them as cheese in your trap.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:42 PM on August 2, 2007 [39 favorites]

I wish I could favorite UbuRoivas' answer 100 times.
posted by ottereroticist at 9:45 PM on August 2, 2007

"Regarding "why a gay," take it up with the people upthread who go on and on about how women feel safe with gay men. If the OP is stereotyping then they are too."

Anyone claiming women are magically comfortable with gay men are guilty of just as much bullshit and presumptuousness, and you can start a separare thread about them, if you like. In there we can discuss how many women-hating gays there are who get all worked up if someone with a vagina happens to wander into their bars.

The actual issue at hand is the orginal question, which is bizarrely focused on him finding a gay guy to help him get women rather than say, another straight guy or just going right to the women. Read that sentence again. You are both avoiding a perfectly valid question. Two, in fact, because I'm still waiting for why it isn't possible to just find a straight guy to hang out with to play wingman. Anybody, really, but the repeated insistence on it being a gay guy is, frankly, weird and misguided. If some Gay Buddy of his happens to introduce him to a lady friend, hey great, but it being some premeditated plan?

I'm not presupposing any intentional malice here, but I do think the original question is beyond naive and unaware of its own stunningly crass, pandering basis.
posted by Su at 9:50 PM on August 2, 2007

Here's a great place to start reading if you feel like cultivating your inner queer.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:52 PM on August 2, 2007

I wish I could favorite UbuRoivas' answer 100 times.

Send me one of your specially-trained otters & I'll be happy enough :)
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:53 PM on August 2, 2007

Send me one of your specially-trained otters & I'll be happy enough :)

And the best part is, it can help your friends get dates with muskrats!

P.S. The link in your previous comment is borked.
posted by ottereroticist at 10:01 PM on August 2, 2007

Funny thing is I just remembered that I've actually been approached once with essentially this proposition while hanging out at a club. He actually seemed confused at my negative (to put it mildly) response.

I would hope that the fairy Bobby adopts is pretty damn wonderful and able to hold attention on his own in the eventuality that all his lady friends are deemed unacceptable.
posted by Su at 10:01 PM on August 2, 2007 [1 favorite]

The gay friend is one of those in-the-closet / everyone suspects are gay, not a queen at all. You might look for your gay friend at:
[[Bunch of artsy activities]]

Ok besides the fact this "best marked" answer is naive and exceedingly stereotypical, hunting gay people of the same sex for platonic friendship at these events is going to come off as A) like you're hitting on them from inside the closet, and B) really, really creepy.

Good luck pal, I think you've got the wrong idea...read dirtynumbangelboy's contribution if you want the right one.
posted by dendrite at 10:02 PM on August 2, 2007

Given that you're looking for incredibly good looking, pretty, attractive lovelies, I can't imagine why anyone reading this thread might imagine that you're looking to hit on women. Both women and gay men (and straight men, for that matter) have personalities. Regarding either group as human beings rather than tools and pretty playthings would probably help.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:09 PM on August 2, 2007

unborked link, hopefully.

Dunno about those muskrats, though. My ferrets might get jealous...
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:12 PM on August 2, 2007

Two, in fact, because I'm still waiting for why it isn't possible to just find a straight guy to hang out with to play wingman. Anybody, really, but the repeated insistence on it being a gay guy is, frankly, weird and misguided.

I find the idea of a wingman of any persuasion weird and misguided. "You talk me up and then monopolize the ugly friend while I oil up the lovely." I mean, that's basically what wingmen are for, right?
posted by frobozz at 10:53 PM on August 2, 2007

Wow. I've never seen so many people talking right past each other.

Out of 50 responses, I only saw 2 that were even close to actually understanding what the poster was asking.

The other people are divided into two groups, and neither of them are talking about what the other group is.

It's like watching a car wreck in slow motion where the people involved don't even know they are driving.

Is everyone really this dense? Or is it just that mentioning "teh gay" makes everyone completely lose focus and just forge their own context?
posted by Ynoxas at 11:02 PM on August 2, 2007

You asked about puppy rental, probably jokingly, but... in Brooklyn there's an animal shelter where you leave your contact info and license number, and you get to take a dog for a walk for a half hour or so. There may be shelters in your area with similar policies, or you could offer to volunteer regularly as a dog walker. Not only do you have a cute doggy, but you have a Good Citizen thing going at the same time by volunteering. And the dog's happy, too.

About the plan: I'll third the Craigslist suggestion as a starting point. If you want to start a friendship with a specific objective in mind, why not be straightforward about it? You could also browse the personals for gay guys looking for platonic company, and ask if they'd share horror stories women tell them about men, so you can learn from those stories.
posted by lorrer at 11:11 PM on August 2, 2007

I'm with quin and UbuRoivas both, but maybe like the puppy thing, if you're trying it isn't going to work.

Years and years ago I moved to a small midwest town for a job. Luckily I had an old college friend who had been there for a while, and who had 'turned' lesbian since the old college days. She introduced me to her friends, mostly gay and lesbian. They were nice and some of us hit it off pretty well. The local gay bar was the only place in town even close to a big-city club (large dance floor, live DJs, disco balls and flashing lights and actual dancing people), the other bars were like biker dive bars with a jukebox. The gay bar was also the only 18 and over place in town, so there were enough open minded straight people who went there either because they couldn't get in anywhere else, or because they didn't want to drive 60 miles to a real dance club.

The couple of years I spent in that little town were some of the most sociable and just plain fun years ever. Lesbians are a blast, and they can be cruder than your crudest straight male buddies when it comes to analyzing the ladies. Straight girls who hang around gays (except for the ones who need a 'gay' accessory) don't hang around because they're not being hit on, and they don't like the gays because they're unattainable, they hang around because gay guys are fun.

If you stumble into a smallish tight-knit group of gay friends, you might find what you were seeking in your original question. But if you go out looking for some gay friends to find what you were seeking, it will be like buying a puppy to attract the ladies and is pretty much doomed to failure.

My best advice: embrace whatever 'queerness' you have, and pretend every girl you meet is a lesbian. :)
posted by zengargoyle at 11:25 PM on August 2, 2007

a golden retriever or lab puppy is not only an incredible babe magnet, when it grows up it remains a more agreeable companion than most of the babes it attracted.
posted by bruce at 11:37 PM on August 2, 2007

You have misunderstood what you're seeing, and drawn the wrong conclusion.

The gay men you have observed are not trying to get laid by the women. Therefore they are their relaxed and confident selves. You by contrast are radiating the self-consciousness and nervousness of the man who would like to have sex with you! and you! and you!

Haven't you ever noticed that once you're in a secure relationship, women are often more into you (damn, why didn't that happen before)? Or that when you are most lonely and strung out you have no luck, but when you've given up and relaxed someone turns up? It's because you are radiating happy secure non-desperate vibes.

You do not need a gay wingman, what you need is to chill and enjoy people for what they are, rather than their desirability as sex objects. Then you will seem sexy and desirable and less desperate.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:43 PM on August 2, 2007 [1 favorite]

Male escort agency. Seriously.
posted by Martin E. at 12:34 AM on August 3, 2007

There is the germ of a good idea hidden in this question. In college, as a straight man, I used to meet women at LGB-type parties, and I had bonus points in advance for many women just for being comfortable at such an event. The trick however is that I went to LGB parties because I happened to actually be friends with some gay guys in the first place, and I felt comfortable there because I was, and I met women there because it was not my intention to meet women there but just to have fun. Had I pre-conceived this plan it would never have worked.

In my experience all plans to meet ladies just make you high-strung and ruin your evening.
posted by creasy boy at 1:33 AM on August 3, 2007

Best answer: Women like gay men because they all thought Sex and the City was a documentary. Having a gay friend is trendy, it has nothing to do with "not being hit on". If they didn't want to be hit on, they'd probably only hang out with other women.

Oh Lordy. Yes of course. Women never got near gay men until Sarah Jessica Parker inspired us to! Yay! Let's go buy Monolo Blahniks and find a gay best friend! And then we can summer in the Hamptons together! Yay!

Honey, some of us just know gay people. My friend John has always told me I have a "high Gay-Q"... I'm a creative person who went to art school & lived in L.A. & San Francisco so it would've been harder to AVOID having any gay friends. But Hell, sometimes it's wonderful knowing that any time you need it you have a cute and fun man to accompany you anywhere any time you need a date but don't feel like being near testosterone. And nine out of ten times, you know you'll laugh twice as much with your gay best friend than with your boyfriend. Your boyfriend may be great... but he's not your crazy gay best friend.

So I've read someone upthread go on how we're not listening to the question. But actually, I think people are just sensing that you are determined to do this idea without ever really trying to have the slightest understanding of gay men OR women & WHY they hang out together. Like guys who talk about how it'd be hot to hang out with lesbians so they could get invited into a threesome... that reality is inevitably different than their fantasy.

Here's the thing you might not have thought about... straight guys simply usually don't fit well into the gay men/straight women friendship dynamic. I've seen it tried, but unless you are bisexual and supremely comfortable with your own sexuality, or you have interests that a lot of straight guys don't, you might just end up feeling like a giant third wheel.

Would you be comfortable meeting for coffee at a traditionally gay hangout place? Also, straight men often don't have the interests that women and gay men share with eachother... do you really want to go shopping together or go to a midnight screening of Valley of the Dolls? What about if you were invited to a drag show with your new gay best friends? Are you actually okay with your new gay best friend's lifestyle? Or would you just be pretending to meet a woman?

If you are okay and feel secure in a gay environment, than that's cool. But if you're not, then you're not being true to yourself or fair to anyone else either. And that dishonesty is probably not going to help you attract the love of your life... especially since both women and gay men tend to be very protective of their friends when someone hurts them.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:47 AM on August 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

Yeah, when I used to go to gay clubs, back in the early seventies, there were always a lot of non-lesbian women about. We called them 'fag hags', and today they'd be old enough to be Sarah Jessica Parker's grandmother.

straight guys simply usually don't fit well into the gay men/straight women friendship dynamic

I've noticed this as well. Although I had gay friends with fag-hag friends, these women never wanted to have sex with me -- despite my confidence in my own sexuality and my wide array of non-traditional straight guy interests.

I never really came up with a reason for it though. Insane as it may seem, some people just don't want to have sex with me. And the real tragedy of life is that more women don't want to than do want to.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:50 AM on August 3, 2007

Ynoxas, the poster is saying "I want to meet gay men so I can use them to get laid with women."

I don't really see how that's not objectionable.

Again, OP:


Try treating people like human beings.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:33 AM on August 3, 2007

Oh, and?

I am happy to introduce my straight male friends to girls that I know. I like seeing people together.

But--and this is the important bit, so read this very carefully:

They were my friends first, not creeps trying to use me to get into girls' panties.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:39 AM on August 3, 2007

BobbyDigital, you posted a question on AskMe to get feedback and answers. But at this point you seem less interested in useful advice and more interested in favoriting those responses that support your views.

No, nobody is actually answering your question and telling you how to make friends with a gay guy because it's a freakin' stupid plan. This is kind of like if you posted the question "I'm planning on stabbing myself in the face, what kind of knife should I use?" or "Where do I find a pattern to sew a KKK costume to wear to a local NAACP meeting?" Maybe you have to consider the idea that there is an overwhelming number of answers that denigrate your idea not because we can't see your genius, but because it's a bad idea.
posted by Anonymous at 5:28 AM on August 3, 2007

I'm with dirtynumbangelboy on this. I think you have things totally reversed. Your plan is actually a great plan, in that you are right about the relationship between some gay men and some heterosexual women. But what you are missing is that you need to first be the kind of guy who is totally comfortable and cool with gay men, and has lots of gay friends, and then it will be totally natural for your gay friends to start saying "hey, have you met my friend So-and-So? You'll really like her."

From your question, and your responses in the thread, you are putting cart in front of horse, wanting the gay wingman but without actually becoming the kind of person who would fit smoothly into that dynamic. If you act in person like you come across here, the kind of women who really like hanging out with gay men are not going to be real enthralled with you, you know? Maybe sort of like what is going on already in your love life?

So you need to focus on you, and how to be cool with these situations, and the rest should follow from that. (And in the meantime, I really wish I could be the fly on the wall when you start having your "curious straight guy wants gay friends" CL meetups.)
posted by Forktine at 5:35 AM on August 3, 2007

Best answer: Ok, have to weigh in on this. I'm a happily married, straight girl with lots of gay friends. Whenever I go out with my gays, they are always using me to meet other gays!! "Ohhh pearlybob, he's CUTE!! Go make friends so he can be my husband!!" I'm exagerating a tad but it happens all the time!! I'm the social 'lube' between two potential 'boyfriends' and it's fine. Why shouldn't the opposite work? The OP just wants a buffer friend to the girls and he is correct in observing that the gay guys just do it better!!
posted by pearlybob at 5:51 AM on August 3, 2007

Wow. You've entirely missed the point of girls and gay men.

We're not friends with them because they're not threatening, or because we can watch Steel Magnolias and cry on each other, or because we can go to bars or coffeeshops and peruse the local (male) scenery. We're friends because, deep down, person to person, we like each other and get along. The shared interests help, but that's mixing cause and effect.

Look. One of my best friends is gay. We met in high school, sort of adopted each other (as kids from highly dysfunctional homes do), and ten years down the line we're still Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumbass. Which, by the way, places our friendship before 'Sex And The City' came along, so trash that theory. True, some of the stereotypes apply. We go shopping together, he makes the mimosas, he's the only person on the planet allowed to cut my hair. But it's not because he's gay, it's because he's *him.* Through him, I've met plenty of gay guys. Some I liked. Some I couldn't stand. His current boyfriend and I get on like gangbusters, because we're both into art and videogames -- not because they're gay and I'm straight. It's all about the individual personalities involved.

He can - and has - played wingman for friends of his before, both gay and straight. But, again, he did it because that's what friends DO for each other.

Also, if he found out a straight guy had befriended him to get into his girl friends' pants, there'd be hell to pay. Jesus. I'd sell tickets to that confrontation and make sure I got it on video.

Your asking this shows me you really don't know how the dynamic between gay men and straight women works. Go learn about that, and then decide for yourself whether this is a good idea.

And that's my 'sociopolitically queer but sexually straight' rant for the week. Thanks, OP, I came close to missing my deadline.
posted by cmyk at 6:04 AM on August 3, 2007 [3 favorites]

my opinion is that women like to hang out with a certain type of gay guy, not gay guys in general.

The kind who is more fashionable, hip, witty, outrageous & empathetic than the average person.

posted by lastobelus at 6:18 AM on August 3, 2007

I'm the social 'lube' between two potential 'boyfriends' and it's fine. Why shouldn't the opposite work? The OP just wants a buffer friend to the girls and he is correct in observing that the gay guys just do it better!

What people in this thread are getting worked up about is that it seems as if he wants to make friends with someone based PURELY on their sexual preference because they think that person will help them get laid. There's something limiting and strange about judging someone on sexual orientation, especially since that's often the least interesting aspect about people (at least people I would want to hang out with).

As for the OP, why don't you actively attempt to get involved in activities that you think is uniting these agy men and straight women? It will most likely help you meet people while not making it seem like you are relying on stereotypes to get some action.
posted by piratebowling at 6:38 AM on August 3, 2007

I don't think this is a bad idea at all. I'm friends with a couple of straight people who definitely see me as a means toward the possibility of meeting interesting and beautiful females.

But the trick is, we started off getting to know each other as friends before that subject was addressed. And yes, in almost all cases I was initially attracted to them and hoping that their curiosity in me as a person might be enough to lead to some other sort of "arrangement". You have to be prepared for that, and make sure you are very clear and uncompromising in your heterosexuality, so that you don't confuse or hurt someone unnecessarily. It will actually be a great relief to him to discover very early on that you want to meet his girlfriends, and save him the confusion of trying to figure out your motives. Everyone likes to play matchmaker.

A lot of straight guys try to demonstrate that they can relate to you and that they're not squicked out by teh gay by mentioning that they experimented with a guy at one time, or mentioning male celebrities that they are theoretically attracted to, etc. It's an honorable intention, but that will make some gays think that they have a chance and that they can "help" you, if you get my drift. Best to be unequivocal in your stance, sexual orientation-wise, when becoming friends with a gay man. And accept that on some level he is almost certainly attracted to you; he is a man, after all, and you know what kinds of fantasies straight guys have about their female friends. Deal with it.

Just keep your eyes peeled for a person you like. Someone you normally would have not gravitated toward because of potential hetero/homo weirdness. Make a friend. If he turns out to not have any hot ladyfriends, then at least you have a new friend.
posted by hermitosis at 6:41 AM on August 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

Re: the gay bars in your neighborhood

Depends on what kind they are. Poke your head in some night; are there ladies hanging out with guys there? Girls will often accompany their gay friends to bars. Some may be lesbians. But in my neighborhood at least, people just hang out in packs, which means mixed groups-- and in some gay bars, a very mixed setting. A girlfriend of mine I took to a gay bar once TOTALLY went home with a guy that night. YMMV.

Different bars draw different crowds. And individual bars can be very different from one night to the next, depending on their events and such. Peek in on different nights of the week, see what you find there.

Don't be afraid to go in, have a drink. Sounds like you are doing a good job of trying to educate yourself, but it can't all be labwork; sometimes you have to go out into the field.
posted by hermitosis at 6:48 AM on August 3, 2007

I think that if someone tried to befriend me because I was gay in order to get introduced to straight women, I'd be creeped out. On the other hand, I'm a middle-aged, balding leather queen and I suspect that I don't fit the image of what you're thinking of when you say "the gays". But who are you thinking of? And if you want to befriend someone, can you start by seeing them as a person instead of a label?

FWIW, most of the examples I know of straight women who were really close to gay men are the aforementioned "fag hags." The social mix has changed a lot since I was young, but I wonder if -- assuming your plan is successful -- the women that you meet will really be the women that you want. "Incredibly good looking?" Maybe. What other qualities do you want in a woman?

When I first read your question, I thought it was a movie-plot. In my version of the movie, the straight man befriends a gay man, then has an affair with his straight women friend, but by the end of the movie the two men fall for each other and elope to P-Town. Could happen...
posted by Robert Angelo at 7:42 AM on August 3, 2007

Actually, I know a great way for you to befriend gay men, but you're not gonna like it...

There is a germ of truth here: If you want to hang out with the pretty people, hang out with the people who hang out with the pretty people.

Forget this gay decoy nonsense. Befriend straight guys who are good with women and learn from them. Don't view them as competition. Lots of girls to go around.

What, you're not cool enough to hang out with them? There's your problem right there. Make your life interesting.

There is no quick-fix, magical gay bullet shortcut.
posted by LordSludge at 7:55 AM on August 3, 2007

I'm gay, and I had a straight male friend who used to hit on my female friends. He'd ask me to invite them out with us, and then creep them out and make them uncomfortable all evening. And if I didn't invite them out with us, he'd get upset with me.

I am no longer friends with him. And he never got any ass from my girl friends.
posted by fugitivefromchaingang at 8:14 AM on August 3, 2007 [2 favorites]

When I first read your question, I thought it was a movie-plot.

Not-very-shockingly, it is a movie plot. Presenting: Eating Out.

The movie was bad. Hint.
posted by awesomebrad at 8:53 AM on August 3, 2007

I don't think that I would get that far by complimenting a girl's shoes.
Actually, that's not a bad way to start.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 9:10 AM on August 3, 2007

maybe you just need to switch teams
posted by Salvatorparadise at 9:15 AM on August 3, 2007

Take the sexual orientation part out of your question.

Go to bars. Find the guys (or girls) who are hanging around lots of people of both genders, who have an easy time talking to strangers. These people will presumably also have an easy time talking to you. Talk to them, hang out with them. If they like you, they will start introducing you to other people, because that's what friendly extroverted outgoing people do, without much prompting at all. They're good at it, they enjoy it, they like facilitating conversations.

Now you have a new friend! Who actually likes talking to strangers and introducing new people into his group of friends, which you know because you've seen him do so rather than just assumed he would do so based on his sexual orientation! Good for you!
posted by occhiblu at 9:22 AM on August 3, 2007

Actually, that's not a bad way to start.

If she's the kind of girl that gets hit on a lot... yeah, it is.
posted by LordSludge at 9:27 AM on August 3, 2007

Actually, that's not a bad way to start.

If she's the kind of girl that gets hit on a lot... yeah, it is.

I guess I don't get hit on too much, since I think that's a totally fine way to start a conversation. I don't mean start out wuith "Hi, nice shoes" but a well-intentioned "Hey those are really cool shoes, did you get them somewhere in town?" is as good as any line and might make me think the asker was gay, anyway. Cause, you know, teh gays love shoes.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 11:01 AM on August 3, 2007

It's fine to use people as long as they know they're being used and don't mind. I would say your plan is never going to work unless you're actually friends with your helpers; it would probably also help if they know what you're up to. Most people that I know enjoy helping helping single friends hook up.

Oh: just don't let us catch you without the rapture, in the joint, smoked out, dead broke or off point, Bobby.
posted by Fat Charlie the Archangel at 12:13 PM on August 3, 2007

Being the observant sort I have come to notice that a good number of gay guys I know tend to hang out with large groups of incredibly good looking girls. I have also noticed that they have a much easier repor when meeting said lovelies.

Why don't you try going out with ordinary-looking girls who you get along with, instead of valuing looks above all?

And why do I get the feeling that this is research for a screenplay...
posted by jokeefe at 1:38 PM on August 3, 2007 [1 favorite]

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