Job advice needed

April 18, 2007 8:12 AM

I'm bipolar, have a criminal record and need a job. Got any advice?

I am writing this message with desperation in the hope that someone out there can help me. About 1-1/2 years ago I was convicted of petty theft (shoplifting), although I was arrested for grand theft/burglary. I add the part about what I was arrested for, even though not convicted, because it will be on my record FOREVER. Prior to this, I had never done anything remotely unlawful, never even a traffic ticket. If there was a goody two-shoes, I was it.

I have been struggling with depression for over 15 years and had at that point had been on 16 different drugs over the years, with marginal effect. However, after this incident my doctor changed my diagnosis to bipolar and changed my meds accordingly. Well, now that I am on the correct meds, I'm doing much better from a psychiatric standpoint.

However, I am finding it impossible to get a job with this background. I have a Master's Degree and a paralegal certificate, which I fear aren't worth the paper they're written on now that I've screwed up my life. Oddly enough, I've gotten to know my defense attorney quite well through this experience and he is allowing me to help him out with some of his cases to give me some experience as a paralegal, like an internship. He says he's amazed at the work I'm doing and has even suggested I go to law school at some point. I'm wondering, however, even if I did, can you be on the Bar with that on your record? Can you even get a license to practice law with that on your record? Does anyone even know what kind of job I could get with this record? I'm desperate, depressed, hopeless. I've already been turned down by Domino's Pizza and Home Depot, among many others. Is all my education useless as far as a career goes? Has anyone out there dealt with this kind of thing?

I am not a kleptomaniac, don't have criminal tendencies, am not dangerous. I simply had what's called a "manic episode" after going off all my meds and did this stupid thing for no good reason. (It wasn't even stuff I wanted or needed and I did it in a completely flagrant way.) I'm a good person who did a bad thing. But according to my record, I'm persona non grata. Please help with any advice...

Questions and such can be sent to [e-mail].

posted by anonymous to Work & Money (25 answers total)

What makes you think it will be on your record forever? In many states, it's possible to get various crimes removed after a certain period of time.
posted by delmoi at 8:19 AM on April 18, 2007

Smaller towns tend to be more forgiving over things like this, imho. I have no idea where you live, anon, but look out into the country, way out.

Find small law offices in towns of 3000-8000 and see if you can get a job there. They may not pay much, but it'll be steady work and the living expenses are very low. You can escape much of your past that way.
posted by unixrat at 8:20 AM on April 18, 2007

That's really crazy. I have a pal who teaches and in the interview she disclosed a DUI (imho - much more serious than shoplifting) and they didn't even blink. What types of jobs are you applying for?
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:22 AM on April 18, 2007

It should be possible for you to join the bar, but of course, every state's standards are a little different. Generally speaking, only serious felonies (like rape, arson, etc...) and crimes involving moral turpitude (i.e. fraud) will serve as an effective bar to entry. The fact that you were only convicted of shoplifting, and not grand theft, will work in your favor. You will have to go through a more intensive bar application process than most lawyers, but I think you should be able to pass. (Obviously, don't shoplift any more...)

Don't be surprised that low-end retailers won't take you - they are the prime targets of shoplifting. You need to think differently. Try tutoring or teaching a subject - you have a Master's degree.

In the end, if you think you'd like the law, go to law school. It's great that you're getting exposure to it now - especially in a criminal defense setting. It doesn't get any more "real" than that. A lot of people that I know went to law school and becae disenchanted, becuase they didn't know what the actual practice of law was all about. And, i think that your story would provide a compelling law school admission essay.

Don't give up hope - your life is not over because you can't get a job at Home Depot. If you don't give up, five years from now, you'll be thankful that you didn't end up in Hardware.
posted by thewittyname at 8:27 AM on April 18, 2007

Well, the first thing to do is complete your research. I don't know what state you're in, but go and find out if conviction for petty theft will keep you off the bar in your state. Also, there may be some chance of having the grand theft business expunged; work with your defense attorney on that, if he/she will help you out, or else jsut find out for yourself and get the proceedings rolling. You are in a better situation than I am to determine the legal ramifications of your arrest and conviction, so I recommend that you start there.

On the other hand, you need money to live, right now, so see if you can work freelance as a paralegal for the time being. I don't know if this sort of thing is done in that business, but I suspect that one-man/woman operations often hire paralegal services on an as-needed basis rather than straight hire. Your friend the defense attorney can probably help you out with a good reference and maybe some contacts.

And screw Domino's and Home Depot; if you really need to make a few bucks right now, and you can't do it as a paralegal, become a legal courier or bike messenger. If you know how to get some basic filings done with the county clerks, etc., you can make a living wage doing this until you are ready for the next step. Good luck to you!
posted by Mister_A at 8:29 AM on April 18, 2007

To become a lawyer, you must disclose your legal past and be approved as having good moral character. Its not hopeless. You have a smell petty crime and a real documented excuse (mental illness, that is now treatable). This is california specific but its pretty much more or less the same all over the US

8. What is the “moral character” screening process?

It is a four-to-six-month inquiry into the would-be attorney’s background and moral character. To practice law in California, an applicant must receive a positive moral character determination.

The process involves filling out an application, submitting fingerprint cards and providing references. In reviewing information provided by the applicant, law schools and other sources, the Committee of Bar Examiners’ Subcommittee on Moral Character considers:

* Evidence of candor and honesty.
* Respect for the law and the rights of others.
* Fiscal responsibility.
* Records of fidelity and trustworthiness in other professions for which he or she is licensed.

It’s up to the applicant to show that he or she is of good moral character. Applicants who have been convicted of a violent felony or certain other serious crimes frequently are determined not to have good moral character. Drug and alcohol abuse also raise red flags.

However, many factors are taken into account and each case is considered on an individual basis. Most applicants pass the moral character screening process with ease. And if an applicant does not pass, he or she can appeal to the State Bar Court.

posted by damn dirty ape at 8:32 AM on April 18, 2007

You also could consider getting your record expunged - without knowing where you are, it's hard to say what would be involved. I would look into it, if you haven't already asked your defense attorney. I understand it can be pricey, and not guaranteed by any means.

The comment regarding the bar is spot on, as well. I have many friends and acquaintances around me that got DUI's and the like, and the school seems to think that they'll pass the bar with medium scrutiny; of course it would be easier if you didn't have it, but the bar would want to know about it regardless whether you got it wiped from your record or not.

I guess another option is to try and do military service...or, a more palitable option is to go back to school and see about getting another degree (if not law school.) The more time you can put between you and this thing is best, and at least you would have some income to live off of while you learned.
posted by plaidrabbit at 8:37 AM on April 18, 2007

A friend of mine went through an extensive process passing the bar here in Wisconsin because, when he was a teenager back in Michigan, he was convicted on a minor assault charge for being part of a bar fight (and being underaged in a bar in the first place). He regaled me of the endless forms he had to fill out explaining himself and his situation, much like dda mentioned, above, in order to prove his "moral character".

But, he's a lawyer now, so nothing's insurmountable.
posted by thanotopsis at 8:37 AM on April 18, 2007

Unless they specifically told you it was because of your record, I would imagine that Pizza Hut and Home Depot didn't hire you because you are vastly overqualified and they didn't want to bother training someone who would leave at the first opportunity.

I'd aim for a job that doesn't involve handling money or expensive products.
posted by desjardins at 9:02 AM on April 18, 2007

Good Lord, Laura Bush killed someone - and she's living in the White House! People don't even blink - they hold her up as a model citizen. Of course you can fix your life after this.

Getting that first job will be hard, but you can do it. Every single person who has cheated on an income tax return has committed a crime greater than yours (in my eyes, anyway), because they've stolen from every last one of us. Some people think of it as a game.

You need to change how you look at yourself. You are a decent human being who committed one wrong act and has paid for it.

Are you involved with any church? I imagine that would be one way to get a job - get to know people there, let them find out who you really are.

Ask the lawyer you've done work for if he knows any place you might work. The law is a funny field - it's a mix of the excrutiatingly honest and the thoroughly corrupt - you might not put yourself in that first category, but it sounds as though that's where you belong. I can think of a number of attorneys who, if they knew you, would hire you.

The thing you need to do most is have your potential employers get to know you. Find a way to do that, and I think you'll get a job with no trouble - so, single employers, not faceless conglomerates.
posted by clarkstonian at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2007

Don't be surprised that low-end retailers won't take you - they are the prime targets of shoplifting.

I just wanted to echo this. I worked at Target for a while where I became friends with the in-house security guy. According to him, 50% of theft cases are expected to come internally. While I worked there, the police hauled off two separate employees in handcuffs within a week for two separate situations. Internal theft is a huge issue for major retailers. Theft of any kind will set off major red flags to those kind of employers.
I also doubt a entry-level position would actually tell you it's because of the criminal record. Rather, you'll get the generic, "We don't need help" or "You don't fit our needs" routine.
posted by jmd82 at 9:32 AM on April 18, 2007

I know it is super stressful to need a job, and having something like this on your record adds to the stress, but you are a good person and I believe that if employers know the whole story you will be able to get a job. I really don't think this will screw up your whole career. Would it be possible to get a doctor to write a letter explaining that this was a manic episode as a result of medication? Presenting a potential employer with a written explanation of what happened, plus a doctor's note seems like it could work. And once you have some good work history behind you, this will fade into insignificance. I know it doesn't seem like that now.
posted by selfmedicating at 9:58 AM on April 18, 2007

For a bar application, the important thing is not what you've done in the past, but whether you disclose it truthfully.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 10:37 AM on April 18, 2007

Just a side note. I have a dear friend who is bipolar and I can attest that she went from 'model citizen / goody two shoes' to 'she devil' when she had a manic episode. It was like Jekyll and Hyde. Glad to hear you are better now. Mania is seriously powerful stuff; it can wreck a lot of lives in short order.
posted by jockc at 11:00 AM on April 18, 2007

There are organizations that help people with barriers to employment, such as convictions, find a job. Goodwill is a common one. Social service organizations, such as homeless organizations, in your area might be able to point you in the right direction.

I will also plug AmeriCorps if you're able to live on about $850 a month. Federal student loans can be put in forbearance during service and the National Service Trust will pay your interest if you play your cards right.

VISTA is the program where your skills would be most useful, since VISTAs are usually college educated. Many programs are very hard up for members and a lot of programs are sensitive to these kinds of issues (in fact, there are VISTAs serving at programs that help with convict reentry) and June-July-August is a big recruitment time. https://recruit.cns.gov is the place to apply. If you have any questions about AmeriCorps, send me an email at ominous_squirrel at hotmail dot com.

If you have a support network of any kind (and it sounds like your defense attorney is part of one) I'd be wary of straying too far, but it might also be that your local economy is the problem.

If you don't have one already, you should have a To Whom it May Concern letter explaining your situation ready to go whenever you apply for a job.
posted by Skwirl at 11:15 AM on April 18, 2007

I'm going to be honest with you -- about lying.

If I were in your situation, I'd start applying for jobs and answering no on the applications' questions about past legal troubles. Many, many employers do not do any sort of background checks. The worst that could happen is you're initially hired, a check then run, and you don't get the job or are let go. It's not particularly ethical, but not a crime to omit pertinent information on resumes and applications, and people do it all the time.

Second, should you have to explain this situation in an interview, I would leave out the mental illness part. Illegal as it may be for employers to discriminate, most will anyway, especially now that mental illness is front-and-center in a high-profile news story. I'd tell them 'yeah, I got busted shoplifting,' and let them come to their own conclusions.

Finally, ever worked in a restaurant? For the next few years, until your record is further in the past, you might consider this industry. Kitchen jobs are hard to fill, and most restaurants will hire anyone, regardless of their record, as long as they haven't been convicted of a violent crime.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 11:19 AM on April 18, 2007 [1 favorite]

For short-term cash, depending on where you live, driving a cab may be an option. I know cabbies who have records for everything up to and including bank robbery and manslaughter. You generally have to pass the scrutiny of the local PD (who are usually in charge of issuing hack licenses), but they'll generally forgive anything short of a sexually-based offense or murder. It's a good way to make money while you pursue any of the other good long-term solutions offered in this thread.
posted by Banky_Edwards at 11:25 AM on April 18, 2007

considering recent events, you might just be an ideal candidate for a police officer position in chicago, il.

no, seriously: there is no reason why something that hasn't let to a conviction should be on your record forever. this sounds like a good time to ask a lawyer what can be done. alternatively, offer law students at your local university $200 if they can come up with a good way to get rid off this. they will apprec. the extra income (everyone knows how college life is, right?) and perhaps even be able to use the research in a paper.

I have seen kids who had problems with student loans because of criminal records but those involved convictions. you might want to talk to a campus financial aid officer to see what your options are. not having a conviction might help.

your situation is not hopeless or catastrophic. it's a bit tougher than it would be without. get your chin up and concentrate on finding a solution.

good luck!
posted by krautland at 11:29 AM on April 18, 2007

You don't say where you are, but in Canada you should call the John Howard Society -- they work with people who are or have been in conflict with the law, and have employment counselors to help you in a situation like this. My stepfather does this, and he acts as a reference, looks up job postings, helps clients with resumes, and even drives them to interviews.

In the US, all I can find that's similar is this Federal Re-entry program which may be able to direct you to some organizations that do the same kind of work. Good luck!
posted by loiseau at 11:39 AM on April 18, 2007

Oh one thing to keep in mind, is that for law school and the bar you'll need to report the crime even if you get it expunged. But as others said, it probably won't be a big deal.
posted by delmoi at 12:29 PM on April 18, 2007

Don't be surprised that low-end retailers won't take you - they are the prime targets of shoplifting.

I just wanted to echo this. I worked at Target for a while where I became friends with the in-house security guy.

Pretty much. I worked at target for a while, and they did a thorough background check before I started the (minimum wage) job. Even had a drug test. Generally speaking, the lower the work, the more scrutiny you get, and the less they care. Obviously to get on the bar, you'll have to disclose these things, but they probably won't stop you.
posted by delmoi at 12:33 PM on April 18, 2007

Shame your lawyer (if you had one) didn't move for judicial deferment on your case if it was indeed your 1st-ever offense - after a period on probation it could have been removed. Check with the criminal court clerk in the county the case was held in and ask them if you can file for expungement. You can do this yourself instead of paying a lawyer to do it for you, if you do a little research & have a helpful clerk. Good luck.
posted by Pressed Rat at 1:00 PM on April 18, 2007

FWIW a friend of mine who did about three years in the federal pen for drugs -he used to be a crack addict-now has his broker's license for real estate. He had to meet with some board in Raleigh and jump thru some hoops to prove his problem was in the past, but he did it and is now successful-both at his job and in living clean and sober.
posted by konolia at 2:00 PM on April 18, 2007

Um, I guarantee you can get a job at a pizza place. First, at least around here, the application asks only if you've been convicted of a felony within the last five years, not charged with a felony, not convicted of a misdemeanor, convicted of a felony.

Places like that don't do background checks, they don't see your arrest record, or anything else along those lines.

If you can be, say, a delivery driver, tell them that right now you want as many hours as you can get, but at some point you'll need to work part time at night, but it's fine if you can only work part time. They love that, because they want flexibility. Full time employees are constantly bitching about not getting enough hours and on and on, so having a person who will come in whenever and work is great for them, even if it's "I can't work before 5, but anytime after that any day of the week is good by me" will get you hired.

I've known people far more overqualified for the job than you who have been hired. They don't care about you working less, they care about you never coming back. That hurts their turnover numbers. ;)
posted by wierdo at 2:31 PM on April 18, 2007

In addition to the sentiments about Target, Domino's, Home Depot, etc. not hiring you because they fear employee theft, I'd like to add that any franchise location, especially as big as those, is going to have a big machine behind it to do background checks, pay for urine sample tests, and screen out people that don't fit the mold. Trusting people on an individual level is just not cost-effective for an organization of that size.

I'd recommend shooting for more mom-and-pop-ish places if you need work immediately, as they don't have corporate policies and shareholders forcing them to show you the door. Locally owned businesses tend to be more understanding on a personal level, too.
posted by almostmanda at 4:24 PM on April 18, 2007