Book scanning business
March 30, 2007 9:29 PM Subscribe
Business idea feedback. Scanning copyright books into PDF format and lending those books out for a weekly rental fee, similar to what is being done with DVD movie download rentals. A DRM enabled self-destruct system, such as Adobe Digital Editions, would provide the technical framework. Since libraries lend books, why not lend a digital copy of the book. One digital copy out on loan for every paper copy kept in stock. Legal, or publishers nightmare?
DRM is impossible. So yes, publishers nightmare. Legal? Probably untested.
posted by phrontist at 9:43 PM on March 30, 2007
posted by phrontist at 9:43 PM on March 30, 2007
Without permission from the copyright holder? Totally totally illegal. Having access to a paper copy doesn't give you the right to transform the work into another form and then profit off that form.
IAAL, but this is not legal advice. Consult competent counsel.
posted by raf at 10:17 PM on March 30, 2007
IAAL, but this is not legal advice. Consult competent counsel.
posted by raf at 10:17 PM on March 30, 2007
I don't know about legality or about DRM, but there needs to be a compelling reason for these ebooks. Reading ebooks on a computer, IMO, sucks. And using the currently-marketed ereaders is not much better. I spend around $30 a month on paperbacks, maybe another $25 if there is a hardcover I want. For me, the rental fee would have to be around $1 a week for me to subscribe. And I'd probably use it as a "try before buying" service, to make sure that I really like book before buying a paper copy.
Also I'd still need to have a good ebook reader.
posted by Cog at 10:22 PM on March 30, 2007
Also I'd still need to have a good ebook reader.
posted by Cog at 10:22 PM on March 30, 2007
You're basically proposing an iTunes for books, right? Think about how much money it cost to start iTunes. Yeah. If you were renting the books for a dollar or so the publishers might not mind.
But yeah, as others said you can't do it legally, since the PDFs would actually be copies not the original.
But what about a book equivalent of netflix? You mail a book to someone, and when they're done reading it, they mail it to someone else who's interested in reading that same book.
posted by delmoi at 11:02 PM on March 30, 2007
But yeah, as others said you can't do it legally, since the PDFs would actually be copies not the original.
But what about a book equivalent of netflix? You mail a book to someone, and when they're done reading it, they mail it to someone else who's interested in reading that same book.
posted by delmoi at 11:02 PM on March 30, 2007
But what about a book equivalent of netflix?
There's already BookMooch, which is a great little service for those of us who still use it.
posted by chrisamiller at 12:11 AM on March 31, 2007
There's already BookMooch, which is a great little service for those of us who still use it.
posted by chrisamiller at 12:11 AM on March 31, 2007
But what about a book equivalent of netflix? You mail a book to someone, and when they're done reading it, they mail it to someone else who's interested in reading that same book.
Basically Book Mooch except that you aren't like required to send the book on to someone else. Rather, sending someone a book earns you the credit to borrow a book from someone else.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:11 AM on March 31, 2007
Basically Book Mooch except that you aren't like required to send the book on to someone else. Rather, sending someone a book earns you the credit to borrow a book from someone else.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:11 AM on March 31, 2007
Holy crap.
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:12 AM on March 31, 2007
posted by RustyBrooks at 12:12 AM on March 31, 2007
I know for a fact that other people have contracts with publishers to do very similar things, and have had them for several years now.
As of now, the only site I can think of where such services are regularly used is Safari. And I think it succeeds largely because it kept focus on a narrow group of technical books, where people are likely to only want five pages of the book, and only want them for an hour.
I don't even know of any of the other services even bothered launching.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 2:43 AM on March 31, 2007
As of now, the only site I can think of where such services are regularly used is Safari. And I think it succeeds largely because it kept focus on a narrow group of technical books, where people are likely to only want five pages of the book, and only want them for an hour.
I don't even know of any of the other services even bothered launching.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 2:43 AM on March 31, 2007
But what about a book equivalent of netflix? You mail a book to someone, and when they're done reading it, they mail it to someone else who's interested in reading that same book.
The economics are going to fall apart. Most popular books cost something like $8. They're going to spend a substantial portion of that getting the item mailed to them, and mailing it back.
And they'll have a crappy, used book with a broken spine and a coffee stain on page 243.
They'd do better shopping in the Amazon used book stores.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 2:49 AM on March 31, 2007
The economics are going to fall apart. Most popular books cost something like $8. They're going to spend a substantial portion of that getting the item mailed to them, and mailing it back.
And they'll have a crappy, used book with a broken spine and a coffee stain on page 243.
They'd do better shopping in the Amazon used book stores.
posted by Tacos Are Pretty Great at 2:49 AM on March 31, 2007
One of the main things the Google Library Project lawsuits are about is whether the actual act of scanning an entire copy of a book represents copyright violation, regardless of how the scanned version is made available to the public. Google's main defence seems to be that the whole scan will never be made available to a member of the public. You wouldn't have that defence. (Also you're not Google.)
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 3:52 AM on March 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 3:52 AM on March 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
Business idea feedback. Scanning copyright CDs into MP3 format and lending those files out for a weekly rental fee, similar to what is being done with DVD movie download rentals. Since libraries lend CDs, why not lend a digital copy of the CD. One digital copy out on loan for every CD kept in stock. Legal, or publishers nightmare?
posted by dbiedny at 6:16 AM on March 31, 2007
posted by dbiedny at 6:16 AM on March 31, 2007
You seem under the impression that libraries just get their materials from the same place book stores do and for the same price. I could be wrong, but I believe you're incorrect. They pay a premium for those materials to cover the multiple eyes that will be viewing them.
I'm pretty sure this is the case as it is for magazines and videos.
posted by dobbs at 6:37 AM on March 31, 2007
I'm pretty sure this is the case as it is for magazines and videos.
posted by dobbs at 6:37 AM on March 31, 2007
The naysayers here are remarkably shortsighted.
I was on track to launch this very business for college students, but I didn't have the Adobe Digital Editions to lean on.
It's true that the market for this is limited, but niches are where the real money is today.
Secrecy and NDAs are a waste of time, so here was the idea. Use it if you like:
College students have to carry around big, expensive books, plus paper, pens, laptops, etc...
Why not just carry the laptop around and have all the textbooks on the laptop?
So, get a commercial scanner with a big duplexing ADF tray, and buy one of each book that you'll require. Have the spine cut off of it (any Kinko's can do this for a buck) and then you have a scannable copy.
Sell real text books. A real, physical copy of the text book must be sold with your digital distribution.
Let the lawyers work out what's legal. In the mean time, run your business as ethically as you can and keep detailed records of all sales. Be able to demonstrate that you were selling real, physical books.
True, perhaps there's a premium for those books because of the digital version that comes with them, but the primary product is the book itself.
Make it clear to customers that the digital copy dies at the end of the semester, and so forth. Then the students have a perfectly good textbook that they can resell, and a digital file that has already swallowed a cyanide pill. Easy.
Chase that dream! Entrepreneurs make the world tick.
posted by SlyBevel at 8:33 AM on March 31, 2007
I was on track to launch this very business for college students, but I didn't have the Adobe Digital Editions to lean on.
It's true that the market for this is limited, but niches are where the real money is today.
Secrecy and NDAs are a waste of time, so here was the idea. Use it if you like:
College students have to carry around big, expensive books, plus paper, pens, laptops, etc...
Why not just carry the laptop around and have all the textbooks on the laptop?
So, get a commercial scanner with a big duplexing ADF tray, and buy one of each book that you'll require. Have the spine cut off of it (any Kinko's can do this for a buck) and then you have a scannable copy.
Sell real text books. A real, physical copy of the text book must be sold with your digital distribution.
Let the lawyers work out what's legal. In the mean time, run your business as ethically as you can and keep detailed records of all sales. Be able to demonstrate that you were selling real, physical books.
True, perhaps there's a premium for those books because of the digital version that comes with them, but the primary product is the book itself.
Make it clear to customers that the digital copy dies at the end of the semester, and so forth. Then the students have a perfectly good textbook that they can resell, and a digital file that has already swallowed a cyanide pill. Easy.
Chase that dream! Entrepreneurs make the world tick.
posted by SlyBevel at 8:33 AM on March 31, 2007
the physical-copy-included loophole isn't even sorta, maybe, possibly not illegal anymore since the case against the video stores that were renting their own edits (for profanity, sex, violence) of movies. they claimed fair use as they possessed an original for each copy they maimed and rented. to do the above textbook idea wouldn't constitute fair use either unless you did so for your own personal use.
the 'just run with it, let the lawyers figure out if its legal' bit is pretty weak advice. not only does trying to make a profit with other people's protected IP, sans their permission constitute pretty clear-cut infringement, it undermines the efforts of legit fair-use activity through paranoid legislative reaction.
posted by tremspeed at 9:30 AM on March 31, 2007
the 'just run with it, let the lawyers figure out if its legal' bit is pretty weak advice. not only does trying to make a profit with other people's protected IP, sans their permission constitute pretty clear-cut infringement, it undermines the efforts of legit fair-use activity through paranoid legislative reaction.
posted by tremspeed at 9:30 AM on March 31, 2007
to do the above textbook idea wouldn't constitute fair use either unless you did so for your own personal use.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd assume the argument is that it's the equivalent of each student scanning their own textbook in for their own use, which is legal.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:40 AM on March 31, 2007
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd assume the argument is that it's the equivalent of each student scanning their own textbook in for their own use, which is legal.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:40 AM on March 31, 2007
I was on track to launch this very business for college students
You go on to describe a completely different business. If you eliminate the library-loaning element, and you add in the costs of mailing a physical copy of the book plus a scanned copy (whereas presumably stbalbach was talking about downloads), and you as the business operator no longer own the book... well, the legalities might be different in that case.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 11:17 AM on March 31, 2007
You go on to describe a completely different business. If you eliminate the library-loaning element, and you add in the costs of mailing a physical copy of the book plus a scanned copy (whereas presumably stbalbach was talking about downloads), and you as the business operator no longer own the book... well, the legalities might be different in that case.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 11:17 AM on March 31, 2007
You seem under the impression that libraries just get their materials from the same place book stores do and for the same price. I could be wrong, but I believe you're incorrect. They pay a premium for those materials to cover the multiple eyes that will be viewing them.
That's about the most absurd thing I've ever read.
posted by delmoi at 11:34 AM on March 31, 2007
That's about the most absurd thing I've ever read.
posted by delmoi at 11:34 AM on March 31, 2007
Well, okay, I've read some pretty absurd thing (Like 9/11 conspiracy theories) but yeah, libraries are under no obligation to pay extra for books, and the idea is preposterous. The right of First Sale clearly gives you the right to do anything with your physical copy that you want, including lending it out, or reselling it.
posted by delmoi at 11:38 AM on March 31, 2007
posted by delmoi at 11:38 AM on March 31, 2007
Libraries pay a premium for magazine subscriptions, but not for books (unless they pay extra for the library edition, which as b1tr0t points out has more to do with the binding than who is buying it).
posted by joannemerriam at 2:05 PM on March 31, 2007
posted by joannemerriam at 2:05 PM on March 31, 2007
Response by poster: Thanks for the comments. It looks like this idea is already being done. Just a matter of selling the idea to book publishers with the right business model. I suspect it will ultimately be the future of books, all digital with the "luxury" option of buying the hard copy. Kind of like hardcover which paperback never replaced.
For digital book skeptics, try reading a scanned book on Internet Archive, via Flip Book, with a laptop, on the couch - it's a good experience. I've read 5 books in the last month that way, I was previously against digital books. I'm now completely sold on the idea and have a few million pre-1923 books to choose from (Internet Archive, Google Books, Microsoft Books).
posted by stbalbach at 8:22 PM on March 31, 2007
For digital book skeptics, try reading a scanned book on Internet Archive, via Flip Book, with a laptop, on the couch - it's a good experience. I've read 5 books in the last month that way, I was previously against digital books. I'm now completely sold on the idea and have a few million pre-1923 books to choose from (Internet Archive, Google Books, Microsoft Books).
posted by stbalbach at 8:22 PM on March 31, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by niles at 9:39 PM on March 30, 2007