Extinguish My Ego
March 22, 2007 8:27 AM Subscribe
Help me extinguish my ego.
For the most part, it seems I am in my own head 95% of the time. It seems most of my internal dialogue is centered around how I am feeling, what I am going to do, how I am being perceived, how I am going to act, how I can serve my own best interests, etc. etc. Most of my internal conversations are about myself in some form or fashion. Is this normal? Does being an only child contribute to this? How can I get out of my own head and focus on other people and other things? All this egoism seems to be counter-productive to my mental health. I would like to stop being so self-serving and cultivate a more altruistic nature. I would much rather focus on how I can help other people instead of myself. Any reading material? Any advice from the monks and the sages out there? Am I destined to be a self-serving pr*ck?
For the most part, it seems I am in my own head 95% of the time. It seems most of my internal dialogue is centered around how I am feeling, what I am going to do, how I am being perceived, how I am going to act, how I can serve my own best interests, etc. etc. Most of my internal conversations are about myself in some form or fashion. Is this normal? Does being an only child contribute to this? How can I get out of my own head and focus on other people and other things? All this egoism seems to be counter-productive to my mental health. I would like to stop being so self-serving and cultivate a more altruistic nature. I would much rather focus on how I can help other people instead of myself. Any reading material? Any advice from the monks and the sages out there? Am I destined to be a self-serving pr*ck?
In my personal experience, I have similar feelings when I am experiencing an overall higher level of depressive symptoms. It's not that the me-ness is causing the depression, it's the depression making me the center of my universe.
I can generally check my overall mental health by monitoring my internal dialogue. Once I've redirected myself outward and handled any other issues that tend to send me spiraling, like lack of sleep, not eating well, physical discomfort, which are the kinds of things that set me off, I tend to find myself back in a much more creative space inside my head.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:39 AM on March 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
I can generally check my overall mental health by monitoring my internal dialogue. Once I've redirected myself outward and handled any other issues that tend to send me spiraling, like lack of sleep, not eating well, physical discomfort, which are the kinds of things that set me off, I tend to find myself back in a much more creative space inside my head.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:39 AM on March 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
I second Blazecock. What is your focus at the moment, are people at work not challenging you and your monster ego enough? Some employers of mine went around like mother hens and roosters. Deflation is important to development.
I have/had/will have/continue to have an ego, I am not an only child.
posted by parmanparman at 8:45 AM on March 22, 2007
I have/had/will have/continue to have an ego, I am not an only child.
posted by parmanparman at 8:45 AM on March 22, 2007
Try this:
Every morning or every night (your choice), pick five people close to you and think about them. Picture each person individually - imagine them laughing heartily, and then crying. Then think about what they are doing right at that moment, about what kind of day they might have had, about what things were worrying them, what things were inspiring them. Think about whether they are lonely, whether they are in love.
There is nothing that you have to do with these thoughts. Its just an exercise that may help you feel connected to other people's lives as they might be experiencing it, without it referencing you particularly.
I found this a good daily reminder that other people were facing their own day-to-day battles of the good and bad of living, and this helped me put my own experiences into perspective.
posted by buddha9090 at 8:51 AM on March 22, 2007 [6 favorites]
Every morning or every night (your choice), pick five people close to you and think about them. Picture each person individually - imagine them laughing heartily, and then crying. Then think about what they are doing right at that moment, about what kind of day they might have had, about what things were worrying them, what things were inspiring them. Think about whether they are lonely, whether they are in love.
There is nothing that you have to do with these thoughts. Its just an exercise that may help you feel connected to other people's lives as they might be experiencing it, without it referencing you particularly.
I found this a good daily reminder that other people were facing their own day-to-day battles of the good and bad of living, and this helped me put my own experiences into perspective.
posted by buddha9090 at 8:51 AM on March 22, 2007 [6 favorites]
IANAB (I am not a Buddhist)
In Buddhist thought, what you describe is given various derisive names ("monkey mind") and considered conducive to suffering. Furthermore, buddhism holds that the self (or ego) is an illusion, and is one of the main illusions that prevents people from being happy. So far, this sounds like it's inline with your thinking on the matter. The solution is a rather subtle concept that's translated as "mindfulness", which most people simplify to "meditation". A really good introduction to all of this, in a very down to earth way, is Mindfulness in Plain English. Namaste.
posted by phrontist at 8:51 AM on March 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
In Buddhist thought, what you describe is given various derisive names ("monkey mind") and considered conducive to suffering. Furthermore, buddhism holds that the self (or ego) is an illusion, and is one of the main illusions that prevents people from being happy. So far, this sounds like it's inline with your thinking on the matter. The solution is a rather subtle concept that's translated as "mindfulness", which most people simplify to "meditation". A really good introduction to all of this, in a very down to earth way, is Mindfulness in Plain English. Namaste.
posted by phrontist at 8:51 AM on March 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
What buddha9090 (eponysterical!) describes is also mentioned in the book linked above. I believe it's given the name "Universal Loving-Kindness".
posted by phrontist at 8:53 AM on March 22, 2007
posted by phrontist at 8:53 AM on March 22, 2007
Sorry for the multiple posts. If you find yourself interested by that first link, check out this book.
posted by phrontist at 8:55 AM on March 22, 2007
posted by phrontist at 8:55 AM on March 22, 2007
Volunteer.
Not a sexy answer, but giving 60 minutes a week to Meals on Wheels or a telephone helpline or other worthy programs gets me out of myself in a jif.
posted by Dizzy at 9:10 AM on March 22, 2007
Not a sexy answer, but giving 60 minutes a week to Meals on Wheels or a telephone helpline or other worthy programs gets me out of myself in a jif.
posted by Dizzy at 9:10 AM on March 22, 2007
Try just sitting. Sit just to sit and not 'get' anything out of it. If you want to focus on your breathing then do it. If you want to close your eyes, do so. Just don't attempt to 'extinguish' any thoughts that may occur. Let them float across your mind like clouds across the sky. Eventually something will surface about yourself and it may be as if a new perspective opens up.
I would highly recommend starting out by listening to, or reading Alan Watts (The Book - On the taboo of knowing who you are) at first where wein order to 'stretch' your mind metaphysically and playfully. Then delve into further reading or lectures to suit your taste. Some peeps focus on the moral while, others the metaphysical, but what is most important is to ask:
"Who are you?"
posted by sneakyalien at 9:22 AM on March 22, 2007
I would highly recommend starting out by listening to, or reading Alan Watts (The Book - On the taboo of knowing who you are) at first where wein order to 'stretch' your mind metaphysically and playfully. Then delve into further reading or lectures to suit your taste. Some peeps focus on the moral while, others the metaphysical, but what is most important is to ask:
"Who are you?"
posted by sneakyalien at 9:22 AM on March 22, 2007
I personally like meditation- "Zen mind, beginner's mind" is a great book- more about philosophy of zen than practice, but it goes into the basics of meditation too I think.
I would quibble slightly with the idea of "extinguishing your ego." I don't think this is possible, or something you want to do. And its certainly not what zen teaches. You are a person living in this world- while you are alive you will always be an individual and this have an ego.
Furthermore, buddhism holds that the self (or ego) is an illusion
there are many kinds of Buddhism, and I am far from an expert in any of them, but I dont get this from Zen at all. Zen would tell you that whether you label something an "illusion" or not is irrelevant. Zen certainly teaches that the "self" (being an individual) is the cause of suffering, but it doesn't advocate trying to destroy or alter yourself in any way. In fact, having a goal or trying to gain something from your practice is completely the opposite of zen.
You just practice meditation. That's it. If you have a goal in mind, even a seemingly noble one, that defeats the whole idea.
but all this zen stuff might not be for you, anyway. Volunteering is a great idea. So is physical exercise- hard to be self-obsessed when you're sweaty and out of breath.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:57 AM on March 22, 2007
I would quibble slightly with the idea of "extinguishing your ego." I don't think this is possible, or something you want to do. And its certainly not what zen teaches. You are a person living in this world- while you are alive you will always be an individual and this have an ego.
Furthermore, buddhism holds that the self (or ego) is an illusion
there are many kinds of Buddhism, and I am far from an expert in any of them, but I dont get this from Zen at all. Zen would tell you that whether you label something an "illusion" or not is irrelevant. Zen certainly teaches that the "self" (being an individual) is the cause of suffering, but it doesn't advocate trying to destroy or alter yourself in any way. In fact, having a goal or trying to gain something from your practice is completely the opposite of zen.
You just practice meditation. That's it. If you have a goal in mind, even a seemingly noble one, that defeats the whole idea.
but all this zen stuff might not be for you, anyway. Volunteering is a great idea. So is physical exercise- hard to be self-obsessed when you're sweaty and out of breath.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:57 AM on March 22, 2007
For me, the best way to get out of my head and stop thinking about myself is to _do stuff_, by which I mean find projects around your home, or even projects in your community (like Dizzy said) if you really want to be altruistic. I think that planning stuff and reading stuff to formulate ways to get out of your head can end up just as self-serving and numbing as being that way in the first place, so the important thing is to do and not spend forever deciding what to do.
FWIW, I also think that making the world a better place starts at home and with yourself, so finding something to do that doesn't seem to affect the world outside all that much may not be as self-indulgent as it seems at first 'cause you're building a foundation.
Also, I second Lyn Never.
posted by hought20 at 10:00 AM on March 22, 2007
FWIW, I also think that making the world a better place starts at home and with yourself, so finding something to do that doesn't seem to affect the world outside all that much may not be as self-indulgent as it seems at first 'cause you're building a foundation.
Also, I second Lyn Never.
posted by hought20 at 10:00 AM on March 22, 2007
Furthermore, buddhism holds that the self (or ego) is an illusion, and is one of the main illusions that prevents people from being happy.
if the self was gone, then who would be happy?
just sayin'.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:06 AM on March 22, 2007
if the self was gone, then who would be happy?
just sayin'.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:06 AM on March 22, 2007
It sounds strange to say this, but pure hedonic self-indulgence can pull you out of this particular slough of despond, for the simple reason that you cannot truly enjoy yourself or experience the deepest pleasure when you are thinking about yourself. So I would say reflect on your greatest enjoyments and arrange to have them regularly (by this I mean periodically, but not excessively) to get into the habit of getting over yourself. Once you have that habit, you may be able to transfer it to attention to other people-- who are, after all, many of the most enjoyable things on the planet-- but be careful, you may end up loving them before you know it, and not necessarily erotically, either.
posted by jamjam at 10:12 AM on March 22, 2007
posted by jamjam at 10:12 AM on March 22, 2007
You just practice meditation. That's it. If you have a goal in mind, even a seemingly noble one, that defeats the whole idea.
I would agree.
posted by phrontist at 10:29 AM on March 22, 2007
I would agree.
posted by phrontist at 10:29 AM on March 22, 2007
Sitting is a great approach. By following your breath you at least have a focus to come back to after the inevitable flights of fantasy.
Joy doesn't need to have a sense of identity attached to it for it to be experienced.
You are happy today.
Am I?
"I am happy." is actually a step away from the experience.
posted by pointilist at 10:42 AM on March 22, 2007
Joy doesn't need to have a sense of identity attached to it for it to be experienced.
You are happy today.
Am I?
"I am happy." is actually a step away from the experience.
posted by pointilist at 10:42 AM on March 22, 2007
Alcohol is a viable solution in small quantities. At least, that's what I've been trying lately.
posted by wackybrit at 10:50 AM on March 22, 2007
posted by wackybrit at 10:50 AM on March 22, 2007
if the self was gone, then who would be happy?
just sayin'.
dr jimmy: likely you were just being facetious but for what it's worth some Buddhists would argue that the happy is what's left when the other bullshit is gone (via meditating using mindfulness and loving kindness and other similar techniques).
jasondigitized: It seems to me the problem that the historical Buddha sought to solve was pretty similar to what you describe as your problem (that is, feeling bad -- suffering -- as a result of self-centeredness). I dunno if that's a consolation or not. When I first started reading comments I was surprised how many were suggesting meditation, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
posted by aught at 11:57 AM on March 22, 2007
just sayin'.
dr jimmy: likely you were just being facetious but for what it's worth some Buddhists would argue that the happy is what's left when the other bullshit is gone (via meditating using mindfulness and loving kindness and other similar techniques).
jasondigitized: It seems to me the problem that the historical Buddha sought to solve was pretty similar to what you describe as your problem (that is, feeling bad -- suffering -- as a result of self-centeredness). I dunno if that's a consolation or not. When I first started reading comments I was surprised how many were suggesting meditation, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
posted by aught at 11:57 AM on March 22, 2007
Meditation aside, almost every situation is an opportunity to pay attention to things outside yourself — people, events, whatever. Look at it as practice. You'll be bad at it at first, and it'll be no fun, and then you'll start finding hidden benefits and rewards that come from directing your attention outwards and it'll get easier to keep up. Frankly, just noticing the stuff outside your own head is a good first step.
Also, it helps to have goals that you care about for their own sake — things that you'd like to see happen whether they end up benefitting you or not. They've got to be sincere, though, and not just lofty ideals that sound good. But getting caught up in a project you sincerely care about is a great way to break this sort of cycle.
if the self was gone, then who would be happy?
FWIW, I get the impression that the word's being used in the sense of "fortunate" and "peaceful" here, not "excited." It's a lucky, calm person indeed who has no self to worry about.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:13 PM on March 22, 2007
Also, it helps to have goals that you care about for their own sake — things that you'd like to see happen whether they end up benefitting you or not. They've got to be sincere, though, and not just lofty ideals that sound good. But getting caught up in a project you sincerely care about is a great way to break this sort of cycle.
if the self was gone, then who would be happy?
FWIW, I get the impression that the word's being used in the sense of "fortunate" and "peaceful" here, not "excited." It's a lucky, calm person indeed who has no self to worry about.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:13 PM on March 22, 2007
nthing Buddhism and mindfulness. Pema Chodron is a great, very accessible author who has written a number of books for self-identified pr!cks. This brief article describes what to do when you realize you're an arrogant a--hole.
posted by desjardins at 12:36 PM on March 22, 2007
posted by desjardins at 12:36 PM on March 22, 2007
I third volunteering.
You don't need to read anything to become more altruistic, but you do have to DO something. If you want to focus on other people then you should do just that - go help someone in need.
It's not as hard as you think it is. I joined an AIDS outreach group a few months ago and it's been a very thought provoking and rewarding experience. So much so that I don't even consider it a sacrifice anymore since I get so much out of it. (Maybe that defeats the purpose?) Good luck.
posted by dendrite at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2007
You don't need to read anything to become more altruistic, but you do have to DO something. If you want to focus on other people then you should do just that - go help someone in need.
It's not as hard as you think it is. I joined an AIDS outreach group a few months ago and it's been a very thought provoking and rewarding experience. So much so that I don't even consider it a sacrifice anymore since I get so much out of it. (Maybe that defeats the purpose?) Good luck.
posted by dendrite at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2007
Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.
posted by Ynoxas at 1:55 PM on March 22, 2007
posted by Ynoxas at 1:55 PM on March 22, 2007
Maybe try theater? Plenty of theater people are all up in their heads, but I always found it a way of getting out of mine.
posted by ontic at 2:06 PM on March 22, 2007
posted by ontic at 2:06 PM on March 22, 2007
ontic---
I agree in theory, but respectfully offer that a person new to the whole scene may feel overwhelmed and extremely self-conscious.
I often reinforce to my students that performing is never a substitute for therapy.
A joyous endeavor?
Certainly.
But best approached when you ALREADY feel confident and giving.
posted by Dizzy at 2:32 PM on March 22, 2007
I agree in theory, but respectfully offer that a person new to the whole scene may feel overwhelmed and extremely self-conscious.
I often reinforce to my students that performing is never a substitute for therapy.
A joyous endeavor?
Certainly.
But best approached when you ALREADY feel confident and giving.
posted by Dizzy at 2:32 PM on March 22, 2007
I'm not expert (or even a believer), but I think it's worth mentioning that Christian scholars have also had plenty to say about cultivating an unselfish perspective. You might start from this little Wikipedia article on humility, which is an unfashionable virtue but worth giving some thought, I think.
posted by teleskiving at 3:32 PM on March 22, 2007
posted by teleskiving at 3:32 PM on March 22, 2007
Practically speaking, when you talk to other people, make a strong, concerted effort to ask them how they are. Ask for details... lots of details. Next time you see them, follow up. Try to find out as much as you can about the people in your life. (I would almost go so far as to say you could pretend that there will be a quiz, but that sounds crazy, doesn't it?) Habits like this make the external world more interesting and I can't help but think that would improve your internal world. Also, it will make you a very good friend.
posted by juliplease at 4:16 PM on March 22, 2007
posted by juliplease at 4:16 PM on March 22, 2007
Suggestion from my wife (who has no personal affiliation with Byron Katie):
The Work of Byron Katie is a method of writing down and inquiring into your thoughts. You examine your thoughts to see whether they're true, and how you react with or without them, and then see whether opposite or inverse thoughts are equally true or truer. The idea is that inquiry loosens the power of these thoughts, so rather than forcing yourself to let go of the thoughts, they let go of you.
"Loving What Is" is the book that describes the basics of the method. Her blog has video clips of Katie doing The Work with specific people. There's also a free phone hotline where you can do The Work with volunteers.
posted by RibaldOne at 7:12 PM on March 22, 2007
The Work of Byron Katie is a method of writing down and inquiring into your thoughts. You examine your thoughts to see whether they're true, and how you react with or without them, and then see whether opposite or inverse thoughts are equally true or truer. The idea is that inquiry loosens the power of these thoughts, so rather than forcing yourself to let go of the thoughts, they let go of you.
"Loving What Is" is the book that describes the basics of the method. Her blog has video clips of Katie doing The Work with specific people. There's also a free phone hotline where you can do The Work with volunteers.
posted by RibaldOne at 7:12 PM on March 22, 2007
Is this normal?
From in here, my head, yeah. 'Specially if you are an introvert.
Does being an only child contribute to this?
Maybe, maybe not.
How can I get out of my own head and focus on other people and other things?
This may sound flippant, but hell, you have to *want* to. I never knew I could memorize 50 people's names in a weekend until I really wanted to. Or that I could lift 40 pounds over my head until I didn't want to seem weak. et cetera. You could start with just wanting to because you think you should. This may change. Or you may have to fake being a good person for the rest of your life. I suspect most good people do.
Any reading material? Any advice from the monks and the sages out there?
I thinking reading, in general, will help. Biographies, fiction, whatever. Anything that is a story, really. Get into someone else's head for a while.
Am I destined to be a self-serving pr*ck?
Generally, if you are worried about it, then no. But there are exceptions.
I have a question for you: What makes you worried about this? The answer to that may help you, as well.
posted by Monday at 7:44 PM on March 22, 2007
From in here, my head, yeah. 'Specially if you are an introvert.
Does being an only child contribute to this?
Maybe, maybe not.
How can I get out of my own head and focus on other people and other things?
This may sound flippant, but hell, you have to *want* to. I never knew I could memorize 50 people's names in a weekend until I really wanted to. Or that I could lift 40 pounds over my head until I didn't want to seem weak. et cetera. You could start with just wanting to because you think you should. This may change. Or you may have to fake being a good person for the rest of your life. I suspect most good people do.
Any reading material? Any advice from the monks and the sages out there?
I thinking reading, in general, will help. Biographies, fiction, whatever. Anything that is a story, really. Get into someone else's head for a while.
Am I destined to be a self-serving pr*ck?
Generally, if you are worried about it, then no. But there are exceptions.
I have a question for you: What makes you worried about this? The answer to that may help you, as well.
posted by Monday at 7:44 PM on March 22, 2007
In the western world, when times are financially difficult, it is enevitable that you would focused on your self. Perhaps that describes your circumstances, maybe not. If not, then another reason is the need to prove yourself to someone (parents, as like as not).
"Survival", as we consider it, involves possesions. You have to feed yourself and provide shelter for yourself as well as your 'stuff'. It is relatively easy to keep your head out of the rain. Keeping your stuff 'safe' (from theft or the elements) makes this much more difficult. So you see, your things are a chain to keep you attached to the ground, as they say.
Give up all your posessions. Then work on giving up your self. Or, at least, giving up the worry about your self-ness. What ever happens to you, your selfness is always there, until it no longer matters.
Ah, but how can it not matter? Maybe it doesn't. I am uncertain. From my view, I kling to my selfness, with the idea that full possesion of my selfness I might keep, even as I die, and direct that selfness to the next level. In Buddishm, it is taught that this selfness itself is a burden that keeps you from discovering it has no meaning, that you are not self, but a greater wholeness.
posted by Goofyy at 5:26 AM on March 23, 2007
"Survival", as we consider it, involves possesions. You have to feed yourself and provide shelter for yourself as well as your 'stuff'. It is relatively easy to keep your head out of the rain. Keeping your stuff 'safe' (from theft or the elements) makes this much more difficult. So you see, your things are a chain to keep you attached to the ground, as they say.
Give up all your posessions. Then work on giving up your self. Or, at least, giving up the worry about your self-ness. What ever happens to you, your selfness is always there, until it no longer matters.
Ah, but how can it not matter? Maybe it doesn't. I am uncertain. From my view, I kling to my selfness, with the idea that full possesion of my selfness I might keep, even as I die, and direct that selfness to the next level. In Buddishm, it is taught that this selfness itself is a burden that keeps you from discovering it has no meaning, that you are not self, but a greater wholeness.
posted by Goofyy at 5:26 AM on March 23, 2007
I would much rather focus on how I can help other people instead of myself.
contrary to logic
helping other people IS helping yourself.
posted by browolf at 9:53 AM on October 28, 2007
contrary to logic
helping other people IS helping yourself.
posted by browolf at 9:53 AM on October 28, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:35 AM on March 22, 2007