Oh to not have to jockey for time to brush my teeth.
January 14, 2007 7:23 AM Subscribe
Older house thread: Most older houses have one tiny little bathroom and no real closets to speak of. Help me figure out how to rectify that!
This house was built in 1923 and our little bathroom is so small that you can't really get dressed in it, turn around in it, anything. I want to add a bathroom but I am having trouble figuring it out.
To give you an idea of the layout I will only describe one half of the house because there is a common wall that pretty much bisects the two halves. This is a row of generally same sizes rooms. One 11 x 11 office opens onto the living room, next 11 x 11 office open into the hall by the current bathroom, then small foyer and bathroom, then 11 x 14 ex-master bedroom. Then the largish master which used to be a sleeping porch.
The ex master is now the "closet room" where we have put some of those tall Ikea closet unit. Its an odd set up because there isn't a door from the hall to the closet room, like it was intended to be a den or something. Also the closet units didn't grab the plaster very well and are a bit dangerous, so it seems that this would be a good place for a bathroom. I have to have a tub of some sort and would like a dumbwaiter (haven't figured that one out)
Whew. All that back story to ask have you added a bathroom? What pitfalls did you run into? Were the older floor joists a problem handling new heavy bathroom stuff?
Not pratical aspects: What is your idea of an awesome bathroom that you would like to hangout and soak in the tub?
This house was built in 1923 and our little bathroom is so small that you can't really get dressed in it, turn around in it, anything. I want to add a bathroom but I am having trouble figuring it out.
To give you an idea of the layout I will only describe one half of the house because there is a common wall that pretty much bisects the two halves. This is a row of generally same sizes rooms. One 11 x 11 office opens onto the living room, next 11 x 11 office open into the hall by the current bathroom, then small foyer and bathroom, then 11 x 14 ex-master bedroom. Then the largish master which used to be a sleeping porch.
The ex master is now the "closet room" where we have put some of those tall Ikea closet unit. Its an odd set up because there isn't a door from the hall to the closet room, like it was intended to be a den or something. Also the closet units didn't grab the plaster very well and are a bit dangerous, so it seems that this would be a good place for a bathroom. I have to have a tub of some sort and would like a dumbwaiter (haven't figured that one out)
Whew. All that back story to ask have you added a bathroom? What pitfalls did you run into? Were the older floor joists a problem handling new heavy bathroom stuff?
Not pratical aspects: What is your idea of an awesome bathroom that you would like to hangout and soak in the tub?
If all you want to do is have a place to brush your teeth, have you considered putting a sink in your bedroom? I had one and it was the coolest, best thing I could have done. I could shave after a shower and let my housemate into the bathroom to shower at the same time. Plus, there is very little real installation work if your bedroom abuts the bathroom, as you can tap into the pipe leading to the room.
posted by parmanparman at 8:09 AM on January 14, 2007
posted by parmanparman at 8:09 AM on January 14, 2007
I've done a couple of baths, and am planning another right now. If this is your first, or you're moving a lot of services, talking to an architect will answer many of your questions (floor strength and so on in particular). It sounds like you're going to be moving walls about and you'll need someone to do the boring bits: staying within code, arranging inspections, getting permits, etc.... Architects are good for that part and can save a lot of trouble down the line.
Here are some points to ponder:
Moving plumbing is one of the most expensive parts of the job. The less you move, the cheaper it will be. The cheapest bathroom reno is a remove and replace---simply changing the fixtures. Try to build the new bathroom in more or less the same place as the old one. Moving it across the house can be very expensive.
The thing that needs support most is the bathtub. It's easiest if it's near a weight-bering wall.
Be aware of the knock-on effects of installing high-volume shower units ("rainforest" showers). High flow needs a higher water supply. This means upgraded plumbing from the tank. It may mean a new hot water tank. It may mean that you need a booster pump to get the water pressure high enough. This may mean putting a new pipe to the municipal water supply on the street. Friends of mine just went through this: it tripled the price of the job, becuse they had to upgrade everything.
Consider an on-demand water heater, especially if you already have natural gas supplied in the house. They use less energy and are cheaper to run than hot water tanks.
Consider a separate room for the toilet alone. Easier to clean and nice for multiple person use.
Consider heated flooring. Heated floors are my #1 luxury feature for bathrooms. No more cold floors! The dog/cat/toddler will love it. A hint though: if you do install an electric, get a thermostat with a timer. My brother recently found that his electric bill was 2/3 for the heated floor in his (small) en suite bath because it was on all the time. Putting the floor on a timer (2 hrs in the morning and 2 hours near bed time) cut his electric bill in half.
Good luck, and watch your costs! Those little extras certainly can add up. The more you can do yourself, the cheaper it gets---labour is the #1 cost.
posted by bonehead at 8:10 AM on January 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Here are some points to ponder:
Moving plumbing is one of the most expensive parts of the job. The less you move, the cheaper it will be. The cheapest bathroom reno is a remove and replace---simply changing the fixtures. Try to build the new bathroom in more or less the same place as the old one. Moving it across the house can be very expensive.
The thing that needs support most is the bathtub. It's easiest if it's near a weight-bering wall.
Be aware of the knock-on effects of installing high-volume shower units ("rainforest" showers). High flow needs a higher water supply. This means upgraded plumbing from the tank. It may mean a new hot water tank. It may mean that you need a booster pump to get the water pressure high enough. This may mean putting a new pipe to the municipal water supply on the street. Friends of mine just went through this: it tripled the price of the job, becuse they had to upgrade everything.
Consider an on-demand water heater, especially if you already have natural gas supplied in the house. They use less energy and are cheaper to run than hot water tanks.
Consider a separate room for the toilet alone. Easier to clean and nice for multiple person use.
Consider heated flooring. Heated floors are my #1 luxury feature for bathrooms. No more cold floors! The dog/cat/toddler will love it. A hint though: if you do install an electric, get a thermostat with a timer. My brother recently found that his electric bill was 2/3 for the heated floor in his (small) en suite bath because it was on all the time. Putting the floor on a timer (2 hrs in the morning and 2 hours near bed time) cut his electric bill in half.
Good luck, and watch your costs! Those little extras certainly can add up. The more you can do yourself, the cheaper it gets---labour is the #1 cost.
posted by bonehead at 8:10 AM on January 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I want so much more than to brush my teeth, that is just what makes me late all the time when someone else decided to camp out in there in the morning, but we all need our morning camping time!
We have all formal space it seems and no practical space. I am thinking of taking most of the den/closet room. I need a laundry staging space, sheet and towel storage, a place to lay in the tub all day if I feel like it.
posted by stormygrey at 8:14 AM on January 14, 2007
We have all formal space it seems and no practical space. I am thinking of taking most of the den/closet room. I need a laundry staging space, sheet and towel storage, a place to lay in the tub all day if I feel like it.
posted by stormygrey at 8:14 AM on January 14, 2007
Don't be scared of moving walls about or making new doors. That's cheap, as long as the walls aren't carrying the weight of the house (if you don't know, another reason to talk to an architect). It sounds to me like cutting your ex-master into a closet and a bath might do what you want.
posted by bonehead at 8:20 AM on January 14, 2007
posted by bonehead at 8:20 AM on January 14, 2007
As for closets - I live in a 1950s tract house and the closets are *tiny*. I looked into the cost of adding a new closet and found that buying a good wooden armoire was about 1/10th the cost. Plus I could take it with me if and when I moved.
posted by watsondog at 8:28 AM on January 14, 2007
posted by watsondog at 8:28 AM on January 14, 2007
Were the older floor joists a problem handling new heavy bathroom stuff?
Yes. You can not just go putting a tub anywhere. Either get yourself some books on structural requirements or better yet get professional engineering help if the bathroom is to include a tub. Showers are less of an issue because they do not hold gallons of standing, heavy water. The tubs themselves are also heavy.
One other thing about older homes, they tend to have far fewer electrical outlets than newer homes. If you have the walls open you might as well attend to the wiring while you are there.
posted by caddis at 9:14 AM on January 14, 2007
Yes. You can not just go putting a tub anywhere. Either get yourself some books on structural requirements or better yet get professional engineering help if the bathroom is to include a tub. Showers are less of an issue because they do not hold gallons of standing, heavy water. The tubs themselves are also heavy.
One other thing about older homes, they tend to have far fewer electrical outlets than newer homes. If you have the walls open you might as well attend to the wiring while you are there.
posted by caddis at 9:14 AM on January 14, 2007
Good time to upgrade to GFCI outlets, too, if they aren't there already.
posted by gimonca at 9:31 AM on January 14, 2007
posted by gimonca at 9:31 AM on January 14, 2007
It might be worth talking your problems through with an architect specializing in remodel work. You can often get references to such people through contractors who do remodeling, and your description of the house as "halves" separated by a wall sounds almost like a duplex, or a house that was cut up at one point into separate living quarters. If there has been extensive remodeling before, your options for rearranging interior spaces may be somewhat more limited, by what previous remodeling efforts have done.
In one 1900's era brownstone I took on in Kansas City, I found that people who had put a bathroom upstairs in the 1950's had cut almost entirely through some second floor joists to squeeze in the soil pipe for the bathroom, and that they had created a long standing roof leak with a sewer vent pipe they'd added. There was some rot that had to be fixed where water damage from various flooding events had occured, and flooring that had to be replaced. There was substantial cost and trouble added to our remodel, fixing the things that had been badly done before.
posted by paulsc at 11:04 AM on January 14, 2007
In one 1900's era brownstone I took on in Kansas City, I found that people who had put a bathroom upstairs in the 1950's had cut almost entirely through some second floor joists to squeeze in the soil pipe for the bathroom, and that they had created a long standing roof leak with a sewer vent pipe they'd added. There was some rot that had to be fixed where water damage from various flooding events had occured, and flooring that had to be replaced. There was substantial cost and trouble added to our remodel, fixing the things that had been badly done before.
posted by paulsc at 11:04 AM on January 14, 2007
Definitely second the notion of radiant floor heat!
posted by DenOfSizer at 1:55 PM on January 14, 2007
posted by DenOfSizer at 1:55 PM on January 14, 2007
I did (well, paid for) a $25K gutting and replacement of the single bathroom in our house, including replumbing of whole house (it's a small house), rework of structure underneath and installation of a skylight overhead. I strongly recommend installing a skylight -- it's awesome. In my case it partially reaches over the shower and we can look up and see the birds and trees while showering ...
posted by intermod at 6:42 PM on January 14, 2007
posted by intermod at 6:42 PM on January 14, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
I put in a Jacuzzi tub, elevated on a platform with steps leading up. The elevation gave a nice feel to bathing; less like "sitting on the floor" and more like reclining on a couch, but with water jets. The tub was not much larger than a regular tub, so it didn't take up a lot of room. Oh, the platform was built like the flooring, with joist hardware and heavy plywood.
I installed a partial wall that the toilet sat behind, and a pedestal sink was against the other side of the wall. I have never liked seeing a toilet when the bathroom door is open, and this bathroom was at the end of a hall. So, from the hall, you could see the sink and the tub. The toilet was on the other side of the partial wall. That's just my preference, and maybe I am overly picky about it, but there you are.
As long as your joists are not rotted, or spaced too widely, the weight should not be a problem. It's no more weight per square foot than an adult standing on the floor would be. Since you may have to get into the floor to access your plumbing anyway, you can always add some reinforcement if you need to.
Good luck! A nice bathroom can make your whole life feel better.
posted by The Deej at 8:04 AM on January 14, 2007