Never lived away from home, no college. Is Peace Corps an option?
October 12, 2006 8:56 AM Subscribe
Is Peace Corps an option for a young guy with no college?
My little brother's life is circling the drain. He graduated high school a couple of years ago, has never lived away from home, doesn't have a job, and spends his days in front of his PC watching anime and playing video games.
We love him dearly, and are concerned that he's building a catastrophic future for himself.
The good part: Drugs, alcohol, tobacco are not part of the equation. He's smart. He's lean and fit (amazing, for his lifestyle). There are also no girlfriends to worry about, and he's not gay. (It would be ok if he were, though.)
The family's religious background is LDS, but there's been absolutely no pressure on him to serve an LDS mission, as he's made it clear he's not interested.
So the question is (sorry it took so long to get here):
If we encourage him to get out if his bedroom and join the Peace Corps, will they even take him?
Do you know of anyone from a similar situation who's joined the Peace Corps? Good stories? Horror stories? Solutions to similar family situations?
My little brother's life is circling the drain. He graduated high school a couple of years ago, has never lived away from home, doesn't have a job, and spends his days in front of his PC watching anime and playing video games.
We love him dearly, and are concerned that he's building a catastrophic future for himself.
The good part: Drugs, alcohol, tobacco are not part of the equation. He's smart. He's lean and fit (amazing, for his lifestyle). There are also no girlfriends to worry about, and he's not gay. (It would be ok if he were, though.)
The family's religious background is LDS, but there's been absolutely no pressure on him to serve an LDS mission, as he's made it clear he's not interested.
So the question is (sorry it took so long to get here):
If we encourage him to get out if his bedroom and join the Peace Corps, will they even take him?
Do you know of anyone from a similar situation who's joined the Peace Corps? Good stories? Horror stories? Solutions to similar family situations?
Best answer: I believe I remember reading on thePeace Corps website that they prefer candidates with at least an Associate's degree. I have a friend with B.S. who was recently turned down for lacking relevant courses (he was a psychology major) so it seems like they take the education requirement pretty seriously.
Also, Peace Corps volunteers are often placed at sites on their own, requiring them to be tremendously self-motivated. So it doesn't seem like the program would be a good match for this kid.
posted by chickletworks at 9:05 AM on October 12, 2006
Also, Peace Corps volunteers are often placed at sites on their own, requiring them to be tremendously self-motivated. So it doesn't seem like the program would be a good match for this kid.
posted by chickletworks at 9:05 AM on October 12, 2006
SlyBevel, first off, please do not inflict your beloved but immature little brother on an organization, community, or country that needs dedicated and committed people to make change happen in this world. Peace Corps and things like it are for people who want to make a difference.
Second, if part of this stems from a desire to see him acknowledge his ways and choose a better path, have you considered trying to get him involved in local opportunities? It's harder to distance yourself ("oh, well, it's different - they grew up in blahblahblah") when the homeless or unemployed you work with were teenagers just like yourself.
(All of this ignores the fact that it's hard to get someone to volunteer who doesn't want to, and especially to be a good volunteer. And whatever the Peace Corps' requirements are.)
posted by whatzit at 9:09 AM on October 12, 2006
Second, if part of this stems from a desire to see him acknowledge his ways and choose a better path, have you considered trying to get him involved in local opportunities? It's harder to distance yourself ("oh, well, it's different - they grew up in blahblahblah") when the homeless or unemployed you work with were teenagers just like yourself.
(All of this ignores the fact that it's hard to get someone to volunteer who doesn't want to, and especially to be a good volunteer. And whatever the Peace Corps' requirements are.)
posted by whatzit at 9:09 AM on October 12, 2006
Response by poster: Ok, the Peace Corps' website seemed to suggest the above.
Any other options, other than military?
posted by SlyBevel at 9:10 AM on October 12, 2006
Any other options, other than military?
posted by SlyBevel at 9:10 AM on October 12, 2006
Response by poster: Oh, I should have mentioned...
He is a good kid, and he does care about other people. His non-motivation so far is a big drawback, but I do believe that if he were immersed in work--especially for the greater good, he'd really run with it.
posted by SlyBevel at 9:12 AM on October 12, 2006
He is a good kid, and he does care about other people. His non-motivation so far is a big drawback, but I do believe that if he were immersed in work--especially for the greater good, he'd really run with it.
posted by SlyBevel at 9:12 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: AmeriCorps*NCCC might be an option.
Peace Corps isn’t about clearing brush to build a clinic-- it’s about running the clinic and building a sustainable infrastructure to support it. In other words, it requires extensive managerial and other skills. NCCC, not so much. Plenty of AmeriCorps programs make demands similar to those made by the Peace Corps (especially AmeriCorps VISTA) but NCCC is more for people who want to help others but have limited employment experience.
posted by chickletworks at 9:20 AM on October 12, 2006
Peace Corps isn’t about clearing brush to build a clinic-- it’s about running the clinic and building a sustainable infrastructure to support it. In other words, it requires extensive managerial and other skills. NCCC, not so much. Plenty of AmeriCorps programs make demands similar to those made by the Peace Corps (especially AmeriCorps VISTA) but NCCC is more for people who want to help others but have limited employment experience.
posted by chickletworks at 9:20 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: If money isn't too much of an issue (meaning that your folks are willing to shell out some dough to get him an experience that could kickstart motivation and/or he's willing to do some fundraising for a trip) check out all the travel options done in association with groups like OxFam or their own "Global Challenges." While the goal of the projects is obviously to provide structure and assistance to communities, less expertise is expected from the volunteers.
Of course, there are plenty of eye-opening experiences for him closer to home. Can you get him to do volunteer work where you live? Community center, soup kitchen, etc?
posted by desuetude at 9:25 AM on October 12, 2006
Of course, there are plenty of eye-opening experiences for him closer to home. Can you get him to do volunteer work where you live? Community center, soup kitchen, etc?
posted by desuetude at 9:25 AM on October 12, 2006
1 of the 43 in my PC group did not have a college degree. He apparently lied to PC and said he had 8 years of creating a successful music business, and this was enough to get him into PC as a health volunteer. He was very charming - not sure how much that helped. (In fact, he had very little work experience at all.)
So I don't think that college is an absolute requirement, but almost all PCVs have a college degree at least. Is he 21? That's another req if I remember correctly.
And specialized college studies are not a req either - I had a poli sci background, essentially. Depends on the program, and perhaps the PC interviewer.
He'd also have to survive the interview, where it seems to me he would have to convince the PC interviewer that he was motivated, flexible, capable.
Once he was in PC, depending on the program, he could very easily do nothing for the whole 2 years - you have to be very self-motivated in most of the programs (not so much the teacher positions, bc you clearly have a job to do every day), and with the depression/loneliness that many PCVs feel initially (or always), it's easy to do nothing.
So I agree with those above who said it doesn't sound like a good fit for him at this stage in his life. (Not to mention a bad fit for the country/village that received him as their PCV - at least in the country I served in, the village leapt through many hoops in order to have a PCV in the first place, and really deserved someone who would stay the 2 years, and contribute something meaningful to the village.)
I don't know a ton about City Year, but that sounds much more his speed, judging by your description.
posted by Amizu at 9:26 AM on October 12, 2006
So I don't think that college is an absolute requirement, but almost all PCVs have a college degree at least. Is he 21? That's another req if I remember correctly.
And specialized college studies are not a req either - I had a poli sci background, essentially. Depends on the program, and perhaps the PC interviewer.
He'd also have to survive the interview, where it seems to me he would have to convince the PC interviewer that he was motivated, flexible, capable.
Once he was in PC, depending on the program, he could very easily do nothing for the whole 2 years - you have to be very self-motivated in most of the programs (not so much the teacher positions, bc you clearly have a job to do every day), and with the depression/loneliness that many PCVs feel initially (or always), it's easy to do nothing.
So I agree with those above who said it doesn't sound like a good fit for him at this stage in his life. (Not to mention a bad fit for the country/village that received him as their PCV - at least in the country I served in, the village leapt through many hoops in order to have a PCV in the first place, and really deserved someone who would stay the 2 years, and contribute something meaningful to the village.)
I don't know a ton about City Year, but that sounds much more his speed, judging by your description.
posted by Amizu at 9:26 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: How about Americorps? Some of their programs require a college degree, but the NCCC program might fit the bill. In any case, they have a wide variety of programs, from outdoorsy stuff to social work. And he'd get money for college afterwards if he was interested then.
posted by jessicak at 9:26 AM on October 12, 2006
posted by jessicak at 9:26 AM on October 12, 2006
I realize that this may sound harsh, but if your family is worried about your brother's future, why do they continue to allow him to live at home, rent-free, while he's doing nothing to advance himself? Someone is paying for his food, his internet access, etc., and it doesn't seem to be him. Your family is enabling his laziness, and while I'm not blaming you for wanting to protect him from the ravages of the cold, cruel world, you're not helping him at all by shielding him from the consequences of his actions.
If I were you (or your parents), I'd set a deadline of, say, 30 days. Within that time he must either a) get a job and begin paying reasonable rent or b) apply to go to school or some sort of job training program. If he fails to do one of those two things within a month, he gets evicted from your home and receives no further financial support until he accomplishes one of the above.
Most adults don't behave responsibly because they magically grew up and got motivated one day. They behave responsibly because there are consequences to behaving irresponsibly, like homelessness and starvation. Your brother needs to face the consequences of his actions, and he's not going to grow up until he's forced to do that.
posted by decathecting at 9:29 AM on October 12, 2006
If I were you (or your parents), I'd set a deadline of, say, 30 days. Within that time he must either a) get a job and begin paying reasonable rent or b) apply to go to school or some sort of job training program. If he fails to do one of those two things within a month, he gets evicted from your home and receives no further financial support until he accomplishes one of the above.
Most adults don't behave responsibly because they magically grew up and got motivated one day. They behave responsibly because there are consequences to behaving irresponsibly, like homelessness and starvation. Your brother needs to face the consequences of his actions, and he's not going to grow up until he's forced to do that.
posted by decathecting at 9:29 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: I'd say have a talk with him about AmeriCorps or Habitat for Humanity. They'll take motivated but unskilled people and teach them what they need to know and I haven't met a single person that has been through either that doesn't deem it a very positive experience. The motivation part might be hard to convince him of, because they probably don't want people that aren't happy to be there.
Like everyone else said, the Peace Corps ideally is for people with college degrees (usually in science or something practical) that want to apply their knowledge in the real world. I had lots of friends that went to Africa to improve farming and fishing techniques and built wells and things like that. It was tough work, and they were all alone out there, living out of sleeping bags with minimal shelter. You need to be very highly motivated to go into that kind of isolation and it's usually way outside most people's comfort zones.
posted by mathowie at 9:30 AM on October 12, 2006
Like everyone else said, the Peace Corps ideally is for people with college degrees (usually in science or something practical) that want to apply their knowledge in the real world. I had lots of friends that went to Africa to improve farming and fishing techniques and built wells and things like that. It was tough work, and they were all alone out there, living out of sleeping bags with minimal shelter. You need to be very highly motivated to go into that kind of isolation and it's usually way outside most people's comfort zones.
posted by mathowie at 9:30 AM on October 12, 2006
Response by poster: The idea of throwing him out on his ass (or potentially doing so) will simply not be entertained.
My parents wouldn't hear of it, and we just don't do things that way in this family.
Yes, he's being enabled by my parents. I can't stop that. This is why we're trying to encourage him to do something useful.
posted by SlyBevel at 9:39 AM on October 12, 2006
My parents wouldn't hear of it, and we just don't do things that way in this family.
Yes, he's being enabled by my parents. I can't stop that. This is why we're trying to encourage him to do something useful.
posted by SlyBevel at 9:39 AM on October 12, 2006
Response by poster: Great tips on Americorps. Any more on this?
Personal experiences?
posted by SlyBevel at 9:41 AM on October 12, 2006
Personal experiences?
posted by SlyBevel at 9:41 AM on October 12, 2006
I third decathecting.
posted by The Michael The at 9:45 AM on October 12, 2006
posted by The Michael The at 9:45 AM on October 12, 2006
I understand not wanting to kick him out, but it appears encouraging him is not enough. When I was young, being on my own was encouraging enough to get my ass out into the world.
At some point, if encourage breaks down, consequences need to come into play, e.g, no internet access, free food, etc.
posted by milarepa at 9:45 AM on October 12, 2006
At some point, if encourage breaks down, consequences need to come into play, e.g, no internet access, free food, etc.
posted by milarepa at 9:45 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: They didn't bother with me after a phone interview and I have a college degree with good engineering experience. I think I sounded like I wouldn't blend in with a foreign culture too much or had a personal agenda. No.
Have yourself or your parents set up him up with some of the ongoing cleanup of Katrina in New Orleans. There are plenty of organizations down there with needs that are secular. The best way to get him to go is not to give him a bus ticket but to take him down there and help him get set up. Talk to people in advance though, don't go down cold.
posted by JJ86 at 9:48 AM on October 12, 2006
Have yourself or your parents set up him up with some of the ongoing cleanup of Katrina in New Orleans. There are plenty of organizations down there with needs that are secular. The best way to get him to go is not to give him a bus ticket but to take him down there and help him get set up. Talk to people in advance though, don't go down cold.
posted by JJ86 at 9:48 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: If it's international stuff that he wants to get into he can look into teaching english somewhere: Asia, South America, etc...
posted by stratastar at 9:51 AM on October 12, 2006
posted by stratastar at 9:51 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: To second milarepa, with an emphasis, I don't think the alternatives are (a) kicking him out, or (b) enabling him. I would start the ball rolling by denying/restricting PC use. The ensuing boredom will help motivate. Your original post addressed some lifestyle issues that you thought might be relevant and require addressing -- e.g., drugs, girlfriends -- but it seems to me that electronic entertainment may be part of the problem.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 10:07 AM on October 12, 2006
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 10:07 AM on October 12, 2006
I fourth decathecting (but to not be quite that extreme). It doesn't matter how much you *encourage* someone to do something. If he can do nothing with no problem, why would he do something? Just because you guys want him to? Clearly that's not enough of an impetus, or else he'd be doing something already.
If I could live rent-free and play on the internet all day with no consequences, it wouldn't matter how much "encouragement" I received, I wouldn't change my MO. I am not saying to kick him out, since you mentioned that is not an option, but I'd say that some limits need to be set and enforced. All of these ideas about Americorps and volunteering are great, but if he's not motivated and you guys are just encouraging these activities, I can't really see there being a change.
In order to effect change, you'd either have to provide a tangible benefit or threat. Where is that here? "Because we want you to succeed" is not a benefit to him. Now, maybe saving the world would be a tangible benefit, but it certainly doesn't sound that way given what we've heard about him. Making money would be a tangible benefit if he weren't provided for. Do you see where I'm going here?
posted by ml98tu at 10:14 AM on October 12, 2006
If I could live rent-free and play on the internet all day with no consequences, it wouldn't matter how much "encouragement" I received, I wouldn't change my MO. I am not saying to kick him out, since you mentioned that is not an option, but I'd say that some limits need to be set and enforced. All of these ideas about Americorps and volunteering are great, but if he's not motivated and you guys are just encouraging these activities, I can't really see there being a change.
In order to effect change, you'd either have to provide a tangible benefit or threat. Where is that here? "Because we want you to succeed" is not a benefit to him. Now, maybe saving the world would be a tangible benefit, but it certainly doesn't sound that way given what we've heard about him. Making money would be a tangible benefit if he weren't provided for. Do you see where I'm going here?
posted by ml98tu at 10:14 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: Is he good with kids? If you wanted to start small, there's got to be after-school programs for underpriveliged kids somewhere nearby - he could teach computer skills, help with homework, get some practice at getting out every day and fulfilling a commitment.
Would your brother really be able to take care of himself if shipped off to volunteer, particularly in less than urban conditions? Habitat for Humanity and Americorps aren't there to install those skills, and it will cost them money in time and resources if he can't deal.
And, before anyone does anything, has he been evaluated for depression, social anxiety, and other factors that might keep an otherwise healthy young man from going out and conquering the world? As much as most people would enjoy a nice long veg now and then, it's not actually normal to bo so unmotivated.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:15 AM on October 12, 2006
Would your brother really be able to take care of himself if shipped off to volunteer, particularly in less than urban conditions? Habitat for Humanity and Americorps aren't there to install those skills, and it will cost them money in time and resources if he can't deal.
And, before anyone does anything, has he been evaluated for depression, social anxiety, and other factors that might keep an otherwise healthy young man from going out and conquering the world? As much as most people would enjoy a nice long veg now and then, it's not actually normal to bo so unmotivated.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:15 AM on October 12, 2006
One more thought: If he's being enabled by your parents and they don't want to change, I'm not sure that there's a whole lot you can do. It's really nice that you want to help, but he knows there's other stuff he can be doing, and you suggesting it isn't really going to change anything if your parents continue to enable/allow his behavior. Maybe you can start with them?
posted by ml98tu at 10:21 AM on October 12, 2006
posted by ml98tu at 10:21 AM on October 12, 2006
I second the suggestion that he be evaluated for depression. Does he have friends he hangs out with when they're not in school/at work? Hobbies besides video games and anime-watching? Are these habits relatively recent, or was he like this all through high school too? He may not act particularly sad or "depressed", but it's worth finding out if he's got a medical condition that can be treated.
posted by rtha at 10:25 AM on October 12, 2006
posted by rtha at 10:25 AM on October 12, 2006
I think the questions about depression are helpful -- but to the extent they suggest that evaluation is a first order of business, I'd think more needs to be known first. We only know that he doesn't have a job now, and no particularly compelling reason not to have one. If I could check out for a while, and be supported while messing around on the computer, I'd sure be tempted . . .
{PAUSES FOR AWKWARD SELF-REALIZATION.}
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 10:47 AM on October 12, 2006
{PAUSES FOR AWKWARD SELF-REALIZATION.}
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 10:47 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: My little brother's life is circling the drain.
You don't say how old he is, but I think "circling the drain" might be overstating it. I started working at age 14, have always been super-motivated and self-starting. Both of my younger brothers were the opposite: complete slackers from age 14-23, in both school and work, and nothing I or my mom tried would motivate them.
I thought they were lost, but now (at 24 and 26 years old) they've both got good-paying and steady jobs, have taken on more responsibilities, and have just matured in general. Everyone is different, and just because he's sitting on his ass right now does not mean he'll be there the rest of his life.
posted by letitrain at 10:50 AM on October 12, 2006
You don't say how old he is, but I think "circling the drain" might be overstating it. I started working at age 14, have always been super-motivated and self-starting. Both of my younger brothers were the opposite: complete slackers from age 14-23, in both school and work, and nothing I or my mom tried would motivate them.
I thought they were lost, but now (at 24 and 26 years old) they've both got good-paying and steady jobs, have taken on more responsibilities, and have just matured in general. Everyone is different, and just because he's sitting on his ass right now does not mean he'll be there the rest of his life.
posted by letitrain at 10:50 AM on October 12, 2006
What does your brother say he would like to do with his life besides living at home, playing games and not being gay?
posted by dgeiser13 at 11:04 AM on October 12, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by dgeiser13 at 11:04 AM on October 12, 2006 [1 favorite]
I'd recommend AmeriCorps, as well. I didn't do it (wish I had), but have friends and co-workers who did and it changed their lives. There are personal stories on their site that you can read.
posted by jdl at 11:04 AM on October 12, 2006
posted by jdl at 11:04 AM on October 12, 2006
You don't have to kick him out but as was mentioned above there must be clear consequences. I've dealt with similar situations in the past and the plain truth is that talk and encouragement won't accomplish anything. This isn't because the person is a bad person or is lazy, it's because somebody in your brother's situation generally doesn't know what to do. The total lack of structure makes taking the first step impossible and so they do sit around and do nothing all day. Making them take the first step is the real challenge here.
My suggestions would be to make him pay rent. If he can't come up with cash -- not having a job -- then make him do chores. He must have something to do. Impose a curfew on him. And heck, *force* him to volunteer at the church. Who cares if he doesn't want to -- as long as he's living under that roof... Eventually he'll get the message. Also, tell him that he needs to get some sort of advanced degree and skills. Make him go to community college. Heck, sign him up for French lessons. It doesn't matter what he does, he just needs to internalize the concept of education. He just needs to be out there trying to do something.
posted by nixerman at 11:15 AM on October 12, 2006
My suggestions would be to make him pay rent. If he can't come up with cash -- not having a job -- then make him do chores. He must have something to do. Impose a curfew on him. And heck, *force* him to volunteer at the church. Who cares if he doesn't want to -- as long as he's living under that roof... Eventually he'll get the message. Also, tell him that he needs to get some sort of advanced degree and skills. Make him go to community college. Heck, sign him up for French lessons. It doesn't matter what he does, he just needs to internalize the concept of education. He just needs to be out there trying to do something.
posted by nixerman at 11:15 AM on October 12, 2006
AmeriCorps or some other sort of volunteering? I wish that I had done a Conservation Corps program such as this one, CREC, (full disclosure I have met some of the folks in CREC's administration in Flagstaff, AZ and they are amazing) but if your brother isn't into the outdoors that might not fit. I would encourage your brother to start doing something, anything. What is he into besides computers?
posted by fieldtrip at 11:27 AM on October 12, 2006
posted by fieldtrip at 11:27 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: Since you asked for personal experiences...
I did AmeriCorps (not NCCC, but a program that required some higher education) and it was absolutely one of (if not *the*) best decisions I've ever made. It's difficult financially-- I needed money from my parents to make ends meet-- and emotionally, but it really did change me for the better. It's also opened up a ton of doors for me... I have yet to go on a job interview where someone doesn't look at my resume and say, "AmeriCorops? Wow."
At the other end of the spectrum... my little brother was exactly like yours: addicted to video games and holed up in his room. My parents lured him out of his room by telling him that he could learn to make video games instead of just playing them. They sent him to Full Sail, a sort of trade school for video game programmers, roadies, graphic designers, and audio technicians. It was hard (he had to get through calculus) and very expensive, but he flourished. It turns out that his poor high school grades and lack of motivation to get a job weren't some personal failing (not that we ever thought they were), just a symptom of how bored and uninspired he was by the things we were asking him to do. If his experience is any guide, the goal shouldn't be finding a program that will whip your brother into shape, but one that will help him discover something that excites him enough to make him really work for it. Once he finds it, though, be prepared to watch your "slacker little brother" zoom past you-- mine now makes more money than I, the "good one" who made straight As and attended elite schools, probably ever will. :-)
posted by chickletworks at 11:28 AM on October 12, 2006
I did AmeriCorps (not NCCC, but a program that required some higher education) and it was absolutely one of (if not *the*) best decisions I've ever made. It's difficult financially-- I needed money from my parents to make ends meet-- and emotionally, but it really did change me for the better. It's also opened up a ton of doors for me... I have yet to go on a job interview where someone doesn't look at my resume and say, "AmeriCorops? Wow."
At the other end of the spectrum... my little brother was exactly like yours: addicted to video games and holed up in his room. My parents lured him out of his room by telling him that he could learn to make video games instead of just playing them. They sent him to Full Sail, a sort of trade school for video game programmers, roadies, graphic designers, and audio technicians. It was hard (he had to get through calculus) and very expensive, but he flourished. It turns out that his poor high school grades and lack of motivation to get a job weren't some personal failing (not that we ever thought they were), just a symptom of how bored and uninspired he was by the things we were asking him to do. If his experience is any guide, the goal shouldn't be finding a program that will whip your brother into shape, but one that will help him discover something that excites him enough to make him really work for it. Once he finds it, though, be prepared to watch your "slacker little brother" zoom past you-- mine now makes more money than I, the "good one" who made straight As and attended elite schools, probably ever will. :-)
posted by chickletworks at 11:28 AM on October 12, 2006
Response by poster: Sorry, the "not gay" part of the description was shorthand for "also no boyfriends." I probably should have taken the time to put that more eloquently.
I'm hoping that the harsher answers will have some effect on my parents when I point them here.
I also hope that Letitrain and Chickletworks are on to something, but I don't live in my brother's head, and I just don't know.
It's looking like we may really want to have him look at Americorps, though. He is considering the military, though not too seriously yet.
At any rate, I can pretty well guarantee that when we do approach the lad, it will be more intense than "Hey have you heard of Americorps?", and less intense than "The clock is set at 30 days...pay us rent or you're on the street."
posted by SlyBevel at 11:54 AM on October 12, 2006
I'm hoping that the harsher answers will have some effect on my parents when I point them here.
I also hope that Letitrain and Chickletworks are on to something, but I don't live in my brother's head, and I just don't know.
It's looking like we may really want to have him look at Americorps, though. He is considering the military, though not too seriously yet.
At any rate, I can pretty well guarantee that when we do approach the lad, it will be more intense than "Hey have you heard of Americorps?", and less intense than "The clock is set at 30 days...pay us rent or you're on the street."
posted by SlyBevel at 11:54 AM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: I finished a year as an AmeriCorps*VISTA in August and I have to strongly second whatzit's reservation. Organizations like Peace Corps and AmeriCorps are strapped for resources and the organizations and communities that they aid are worse off, sometimes surviving month-to-month or day-to-day. AmeriCorps and Peace Corps exist to build infrastructure and capacity that will hopefully make these communities more sustainable.
Also, AmeriCorps holds project sites to a high level of accountability and volunteers are expected to fulfill their entire year's term, despite the hardships of living on a below minimum wage living stipend. If a volunteer quits early for any reason, regardless of fault, it is very unlikely that a project site will receive a new AmeriCorps volunteer. That is to say, not only could an unmotivated person be a fatal drain on an organization, it could jeopardize their ability to retain or receive an AmeriCorps grant.
That being said, AmeriCorps has lots of branches and lots of diverse opportunities. I'm deeply jealous of the NCCC experience and I wish I had the motivation to go that direction when I had fewer responsibilities and was similarly floundering. I always imagine that it's like Road Rules, but the Challenges actually accomplish something. NCCC and AmeriCorps State and National involve direct service and are hands-on: Teaching classes, planting trees, cleaning parks, etc...
VISTA is more about abstract capacity building. VISTA is indirect service. This may or may not include hands-on components depending on how far your project has come along and how many resources you've developed to delegate. The idea is that after three years worth of VISTAs, they will have created something that no longer even needs a VISTA. The first year's VISTA might start an ESL class and teach it, but mostly they will be developing teaching tools and building volunteer resources and financing. The second year's VISTA might create a volunteer database and work as the volunteer coordinator, while applying for grants. The third year's VISTA would continue all this, but maybe also apply for bigger and better grants to make the program even stronger.
AmeriCorps also has part-time and summertime positions. In my observation (definitely biased towards VISTA,) most AmeriCorps volunteers are fresh out of college. But, it's a really diverse group and college education isn't a requirement. You might want to know that NCCC is likely to lose its funding from congress, but they're wily and did a lot of good work with Katrina, so hopefully they'll survive.
For me, the Education Award ($4750), and student loan interest reimbursement are what made AmeriCorps worthwhile financially. It also helps that I can do great, amazing things that I know I can do but my resume wouldn't normally qualify me for. Without those motivators, it's not as good of a deal. You can also opt for a $1200 cash award at the end of your year. The Ed Award doesn't factor against your eligibility for financial aid until you cash it in, so talking to an financial aid advisor and saying, "I have an ed award, but I don't want to use it if it will disqualify me for aid," is the way to avoid getting screwed. You can always take out loans and pay them off with the award later. Also, an AmeriCorps living stipend doesn't count as a wage on your Free Application for Student Aid, so if you're old enough to be your own dependent and you go to college directly following your AmeriCorps year, you'll qualify for the best subsidized undergrad loans. A handful of universities around the country will give you a matching scholarship for your Ed Award or provide scholarships and other special deals to AmeriCorps alumni.
AmeriCorps also reimburses for relocation costs. They will even provide you with a plane ticket home if things don't work out. Nevertheless, it is a commitment. AmeriCorps members take pretty much the same oath that military and government officials take.
It sounds to me that you need to help your brother build mastery experiences. That is to say, experiences that are important enough to resonate, but increasing from low to high in difficulty in order to create more success than failure. Good Old Fashioned volunteering is a great way to build this. Your brother's position isn't particularly uncommon anymore in these days of elongated adolescence, so keeping in mind that he's part of a societal trend and not a freak is also important. My first job was at Kinko's and, despite the many downsides of working there, it was a really great opportunity to learn all kinds of piecemeal skills. There's also quite a lot of people there stretching out their adolescences. The secret is to work there just long enough to get a taste of how much it sucks and then use that as motivation to push your career or education forward. However, they won't give you a reference beyond "yeah, we'd rehire him," and many businesses have had a bad experience and look down on Kinko's. On the other hand, lots of other copy companies realize how hard Kinko's floor staff are pushed to do every step of any imaginable print (and now ship) job and they hire accordingly.
posted by Skwirl at 12:16 PM on October 12, 2006
Also, AmeriCorps holds project sites to a high level of accountability and volunteers are expected to fulfill their entire year's term, despite the hardships of living on a below minimum wage living stipend. If a volunteer quits early for any reason, regardless of fault, it is very unlikely that a project site will receive a new AmeriCorps volunteer. That is to say, not only could an unmotivated person be a fatal drain on an organization, it could jeopardize their ability to retain or receive an AmeriCorps grant.
That being said, AmeriCorps has lots of branches and lots of diverse opportunities. I'm deeply jealous of the NCCC experience and I wish I had the motivation to go that direction when I had fewer responsibilities and was similarly floundering. I always imagine that it's like Road Rules, but the Challenges actually accomplish something. NCCC and AmeriCorps State and National involve direct service and are hands-on: Teaching classes, planting trees, cleaning parks, etc...
VISTA is more about abstract capacity building. VISTA is indirect service. This may or may not include hands-on components depending on how far your project has come along and how many resources you've developed to delegate. The idea is that after three years worth of VISTAs, they will have created something that no longer even needs a VISTA. The first year's VISTA might start an ESL class and teach it, but mostly they will be developing teaching tools and building volunteer resources and financing. The second year's VISTA might create a volunteer database and work as the volunteer coordinator, while applying for grants. The third year's VISTA would continue all this, but maybe also apply for bigger and better grants to make the program even stronger.
AmeriCorps also has part-time and summertime positions. In my observation (definitely biased towards VISTA,) most AmeriCorps volunteers are fresh out of college. But, it's a really diverse group and college education isn't a requirement. You might want to know that NCCC is likely to lose its funding from congress, but they're wily and did a lot of good work with Katrina, so hopefully they'll survive.
For me, the Education Award ($4750), and student loan interest reimbursement are what made AmeriCorps worthwhile financially. It also helps that I can do great, amazing things that I know I can do but my resume wouldn't normally qualify me for. Without those motivators, it's not as good of a deal. You can also opt for a $1200 cash award at the end of your year. The Ed Award doesn't factor against your eligibility for financial aid until you cash it in, so talking to an financial aid advisor and saying, "I have an ed award, but I don't want to use it if it will disqualify me for aid," is the way to avoid getting screwed. You can always take out loans and pay them off with the award later. Also, an AmeriCorps living stipend doesn't count as a wage on your Free Application for Student Aid, so if you're old enough to be your own dependent and you go to college directly following your AmeriCorps year, you'll qualify for the best subsidized undergrad loans. A handful of universities around the country will give you a matching scholarship for your Ed Award or provide scholarships and other special deals to AmeriCorps alumni.
AmeriCorps also reimburses for relocation costs. They will even provide you with a plane ticket home if things don't work out. Nevertheless, it is a commitment. AmeriCorps members take pretty much the same oath that military and government officials take.
It sounds to me that you need to help your brother build mastery experiences. That is to say, experiences that are important enough to resonate, but increasing from low to high in difficulty in order to create more success than failure. Good Old Fashioned volunteering is a great way to build this. Your brother's position isn't particularly uncommon anymore in these days of elongated adolescence, so keeping in mind that he's part of a societal trend and not a freak is also important. My first job was at Kinko's and, despite the many downsides of working there, it was a really great opportunity to learn all kinds of piecemeal skills. There's also quite a lot of people there stretching out their adolescences. The secret is to work there just long enough to get a taste of how much it sucks and then use that as motivation to push your career or education forward. However, they won't give you a reference beyond "yeah, we'd rehire him," and many businesses have had a bad experience and look down on Kinko's. On the other hand, lots of other copy companies realize how hard Kinko's floor staff are pushed to do every step of any imaginable print (and now ship) job and they hire accordingly.
posted by Skwirl at 12:16 PM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: If I could live rent-free and play on the internet all day with no consequences, it wouldn't matter how much "encouragement" I received, I wouldn't change my MO.
Another perspective:
I would. I mean, I did. Most people do not want to live in their parent's house forever. (Particularly when they see the reaction that that gets from peers.) When I got out of college, I had a hard time finding a job that covered my bills, and was un-or under-employed for a couple of years, on and off. My folks helped me out financially -- deposited a check into my account. I felt pretty stupid "living on my own" with money from Mommy and Daddy. Pride kicked in, hard. The more they offered, the more I wanted to do it myself. (And now I'm a bit of a workaholic.)
posted by desuetude at 12:23 PM on October 12, 2006
Another perspective:
I would. I mean, I did. Most people do not want to live in their parent's house forever. (Particularly when they see the reaction that that gets from peers.) When I got out of college, I had a hard time finding a job that covered my bills, and was un-or under-employed for a couple of years, on and off. My folks helped me out financially -- deposited a check into my account. I felt pretty stupid "living on my own" with money from Mommy and Daddy. Pride kicked in, hard. The more they offered, the more I wanted to do it myself. (And now I'm a bit of a workaholic.)
posted by desuetude at 12:23 PM on October 12, 2006
AmeriCorps also reimburses for relocation costs.
Only for VISTAs.
If a volunteer quits early for any reason, regardless of fault, it is very unlikely that a project site will receive a new AmeriCorps volunteer. That is to say, not only could an unmotivated person be a fatal drain on an organization, it could jeopardize their ability to retain or receive an AmeriCorps grant.
This is less of an issue for NCCC, since they aren't assigned to one site.
posted by chickletworks at 12:28 PM on October 12, 2006
Only for VISTAs.
If a volunteer quits early for any reason, regardless of fault, it is very unlikely that a project site will receive a new AmeriCorps volunteer. That is to say, not only could an unmotivated person be a fatal drain on an organization, it could jeopardize their ability to retain or receive an AmeriCorps grant.
This is less of an issue for NCCC, since they aren't assigned to one site.
posted by chickletworks at 12:28 PM on October 12, 2006
Oh yeah, the Community Technology Centers VISTA project is an AmeriCorps project that I'm pretty jealous of.
posted by Skwirl at 12:30 PM on October 12, 2006
posted by Skwirl at 12:30 PM on October 12, 2006
If I could live rent-free and play on the internet all day with no consequences, it wouldn't matter how much "encouragement" I received, I wouldn't change my MO.
-----------
Another perspective: I would. I mean, I did. Most people do not want to live in their parent's house forever. (Particularly when they see the reaction that that gets from peers.) When I got out of college, I had a hard time finding a job that covered my bills, and was un-or under-employed for a couple of years, on and off. My folks helped me out financially -- deposited a check into my account. I felt pretty stupid "living on my own" with money from Mommy and Daddy. Pride kicked in, hard. The more they offered, the more I wanted to do it myself. (And now I'm a bit of a workaholic.)
Okay, good point. But you were motivated to get out. You had your own sense of not wanting to live there forever, plus some negative reaction from peers, plus the internal pride of not wanting handouts. But encouragement wasn't what got you out (if I'm interpreting correctly), it was your internal reaction to your situation and the way it made you feel. Not to mention that it sounds like you tried to find work and just weren't as successful as you would have liked. I'm not saying we would all sit around on the internet all day, but if I were unmotivated and the only thing preventing me from doing that was someone was encouraging me not to, that probably wouldn't be enough. It doesn't seem that Sly's brother has the internal or external motivation that you might have had, and if someone doesn't have that, the inertia isn't going to be cured.
Maybe what you're saying is the key though - build some negativity around the idea of living with mom and dad forever, plus some peer interaction that reinforces the concept, and perhaps that could help?
posted by ml98tu at 1:17 PM on October 12, 2006
-----------
Another perspective: I would. I mean, I did. Most people do not want to live in their parent's house forever. (Particularly when they see the reaction that that gets from peers.) When I got out of college, I had a hard time finding a job that covered my bills, and was un-or under-employed for a couple of years, on and off. My folks helped me out financially -- deposited a check into my account. I felt pretty stupid "living on my own" with money from Mommy and Daddy. Pride kicked in, hard. The more they offered, the more I wanted to do it myself. (And now I'm a bit of a workaholic.)
Okay, good point. But you were motivated to get out. You had your own sense of not wanting to live there forever, plus some negative reaction from peers, plus the internal pride of not wanting handouts. But encouragement wasn't what got you out (if I'm interpreting correctly), it was your internal reaction to your situation and the way it made you feel. Not to mention that it sounds like you tried to find work and just weren't as successful as you would have liked. I'm not saying we would all sit around on the internet all day, but if I were unmotivated and the only thing preventing me from doing that was someone was encouraging me not to, that probably wouldn't be enough. It doesn't seem that Sly's brother has the internal or external motivation that you might have had, and if someone doesn't have that, the inertia isn't going to be cured.
Maybe what you're saying is the key though - build some negativity around the idea of living with mom and dad forever, plus some peer interaction that reinforces the concept, and perhaps that could help?
posted by ml98tu at 1:17 PM on October 12, 2006
Response by poster: Ok, I'm back for a minute.
There are lots of great answers here, so thanks, and keep them coming. I'll mark some more bests later.
For now, I want to say that I suspect that he wants to get out of there and start being useful, but he's been bumming around for so long that he's not really sure how.
I wanted to go with something like Peace Corps (now looks like Americorps instead) because it would utterly take him out of the current situation and re-sensitize him to the life he's living now.
He's had jobs before, and his bosses universally love him. He's never late, he's always honest, and he really works his butt off.
I think that if he had a work experience away from home like that, he might come home and not even be able to imagine living the way he did before, ever again.
It's sort of a "Make the bad stuff foreign" approach. Anyway, I'm off to a meeting.
Thanks all...you've been tres-helpful, and I look forward to more.
posted by SlyBevel at 2:08 PM on October 12, 2006
There are lots of great answers here, so thanks, and keep them coming. I'll mark some more bests later.
For now, I want to say that I suspect that he wants to get out of there and start being useful, but he's been bumming around for so long that he's not really sure how.
I wanted to go with something like Peace Corps (now looks like Americorps instead) because it would utterly take him out of the current situation and re-sensitize him to the life he's living now.
He's had jobs before, and his bosses universally love him. He's never late, he's always honest, and he really works his butt off.
I think that if he had a work experience away from home like that, he might come home and not even be able to imagine living the way he did before, ever again.
It's sort of a "Make the bad stuff foreign" approach. Anyway, I'm off to a meeting.
Thanks all...you've been tres-helpful, and I look forward to more.
posted by SlyBevel at 2:08 PM on October 12, 2006
Not to mention that it sounds like you tried to find work and just weren't as successful as you would have liked.
In retrospect, I could'a tried harder. It took me awhile to get motivated to work harder than the minimum. I didn't have negative peer pressure, because no-one knew that "my" apartment was being bankrolled by my folks.
It doesn't seem that Sly's brother has the internal or external motivation that you might have had, and if someone doesn't have that, the inertia isn't going to be cured.
I agree that Sly's brother is perhaps not as motivated as I was. I'm just sayin' that I had an even cushier situation, and my inertia/immaturity was overruled by a combination of boredom and pride. So he's not hopeless.
posted by desuetude at 2:59 PM on October 12, 2006
In retrospect, I could'a tried harder. It took me awhile to get motivated to work harder than the minimum. I didn't have negative peer pressure, because no-one knew that "my" apartment was being bankrolled by my folks.
It doesn't seem that Sly's brother has the internal or external motivation that you might have had, and if someone doesn't have that, the inertia isn't going to be cured.
I agree that Sly's brother is perhaps not as motivated as I was. I'm just sayin' that I had an even cushier situation, and my inertia/immaturity was overruled by a combination of boredom and pride. So he's not hopeless.
posted by desuetude at 2:59 PM on October 12, 2006
If it's international stuff that he wants to get into he can look into teaching english somewhere: Asia, South America, etc...
from what I've read and heard, these jobs usually require you to have show proof of a college degree.
of course, let's say that you don't always need to *have* a college degree in order to show proof of it -- i have a friend doing exactly this in Thailand.
posted by fishfucker at 3:25 PM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: Show him his options -- there are more than he probably thinks there are. With free room and board he could amass a lot of savings really fast, and really follow his dreams, but he has to know that's possible. He knows he needs to get his life going, but he likely has 2 obstacles: 1) He doesn't know what to do; and 2) He's addicted to the computer timewasters, which suck him in and ruin his ability to pursue options.
Show him what he could be doing with his life and help him do one of them. You say he doesn't want to serve a mission so nobody bugs him about it -- If he actually believes in Mormonism and he's worthy to serve, then start bugging him about it. Assuming that those 2 variables are present (testimony and worthiness - big assumptions, I know), it would be the best thing for him. I guess that also assumes that the funding is there, but it's cheaper than living at home with a high speed connection, frankly (what is it, $450 a month now?).
If, on the other hand, he doesn't care much for Mormonism, take him on a weekend trip to L.A. and help him realize that Layton is a pretty crappy place to waste away your life if you're not Mormon (or even if you are, imho, but that's neither here nor there).
Life is hard, and making the transition from being your parents' kid to being your own man is a tough one -- it sounds like he is reluctant or scared to make the transition. Help him to make it, but don't make it harder or more traumatic than it needs to be. Maybe once he's actually moving along life's road, as it were, he'll be motivated to do all kinds of great things. Maybe not. But the reason that he's not doing anything is because he's got no momentum. Help him get the momentum.
And unless his reluctance to serve a mission is because he has rejected Mormonism, tell him to fish or cut bait where that's concerned, too. If he believes in it, he ought to do what he believes in. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't.
posted by JekPorkins at 5:30 PM on October 12, 2006
Show him what he could be doing with his life and help him do one of them. You say he doesn't want to serve a mission so nobody bugs him about it -- If he actually believes in Mormonism and he's worthy to serve, then start bugging him about it. Assuming that those 2 variables are present (testimony and worthiness - big assumptions, I know), it would be the best thing for him. I guess that also assumes that the funding is there, but it's cheaper than living at home with a high speed connection, frankly (what is it, $450 a month now?).
If, on the other hand, he doesn't care much for Mormonism, take him on a weekend trip to L.A. and help him realize that Layton is a pretty crappy place to waste away your life if you're not Mormon (or even if you are, imho, but that's neither here nor there).
Life is hard, and making the transition from being your parents' kid to being your own man is a tough one -- it sounds like he is reluctant or scared to make the transition. Help him to make it, but don't make it harder or more traumatic than it needs to be. Maybe once he's actually moving along life's road, as it were, he'll be motivated to do all kinds of great things. Maybe not. But the reason that he's not doing anything is because he's got no momentum. Help him get the momentum.
And unless his reluctance to serve a mission is because he has rejected Mormonism, tell him to fish or cut bait where that's concerned, too. If he believes in it, he ought to do what he believes in. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't.
posted by JekPorkins at 5:30 PM on October 12, 2006
Best answer: If you/your parents really feel strongly about this, I would reccomend giving him a month to find a job and either move out or start paying rent. If he hasn't done either after 1 month then cut off his internet. That will wake him up. I say this because I think working at a real job is one of the best options, although AmericaCorps is pretty good too.
I suspect if he started working, and had to actually pay his own bills, buy his own food, clothing, etc, he would start to be motivated by these things. Then as he actually made more than enough money to get by he might realize it is really nice to be able to spend money on stuff he wants (like a new video card or the latest computer game). After a while he will realize that the job he currently has is pretty crappy. Then he will most likely start to look at going back to school to improve his income potential. Imbuing motivation isn't something that happens because you want it to. Much like kicking a drug addiction, computer addiction and withdrawal from society is something that is best combatted by first changing the situation and removing the stimulus, after that the behavior will change.
For instance, you can tell someone to quit smoking, they can want to quit smoking, and yet they don't. Throw them in rehab, kicking and screaming, for a month where they have no access to cigarrettes, and after that month they will not start smoking again. This goes against much of the tendencies of our society to glorify free will, but the brain is a peice of machinery and sometimes you gotta realize it is not infallible.
While my remarks may sound cold I speak from personal experience.
posted by sophist at 3:14 AM on October 13, 2006
I suspect if he started working, and had to actually pay his own bills, buy his own food, clothing, etc, he would start to be motivated by these things. Then as he actually made more than enough money to get by he might realize it is really nice to be able to spend money on stuff he wants (like a new video card or the latest computer game). After a while he will realize that the job he currently has is pretty crappy. Then he will most likely start to look at going back to school to improve his income potential. Imbuing motivation isn't something that happens because you want it to. Much like kicking a drug addiction, computer addiction and withdrawal from society is something that is best combatted by first changing the situation and removing the stimulus, after that the behavior will change.
For instance, you can tell someone to quit smoking, they can want to quit smoking, and yet they don't. Throw them in rehab, kicking and screaming, for a month where they have no access to cigarrettes, and after that month they will not start smoking again. This goes against much of the tendencies of our society to glorify free will, but the brain is a peice of machinery and sometimes you gotta realize it is not infallible.
While my remarks may sound cold I speak from personal experience.
posted by sophist at 3:14 AM on October 13, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by black bile at 9:02 AM on October 12, 2006