Mean People Suck
September 25, 2006 7:04 AM Subscribe
Mean school employees. What would you do?
I volunteer at son's elementary school twice a week. I help the teacher out in the classroom, and man a literacy station. I usually go to lunch with the class and sit with my kid and the other kids. They are kindergartner's so I help them open their milk, packages, etc. and talk with them. It's the highlight of my week. I love being with these sweet kids.
There is an aide in the classroom that is downright mean. She has a scowl or frown on her face the entire time, and I have witnessed her being downright rude and contemptuous toward the children.
The aides also go to lunch with the class, and are lunchroom monitors while the teacher eats in the lounge. I have personally witnessed this aide and others yelling at the kids and chastising them in a mean tone. "You spilled your soup again, watch what you are doing!" "You need to pick your tray up, and carry it to the trash now!" One of the kids noticed there were seeds in another girl's plum and alerted the aide. In a very mean tone she replied, "don't you worry about her food, eat your own food." I have witnessed yelling, scolding, and smacking of hands on tables. These are 5-year old's. I notice that most of the kids look down and are startled and upset when they are spoken to in this manner. It pisses me off to no end that these employees speak to these kids this way. It would be very nice if these ignoramuses weren't around children.
I by no means coddle my child, but I do treat him and the other children with respect and kindness.
Should I complain to somebody? Write a letter? Why would these people work with children if they dislike them so much? They hourly fee isn't fabulous, but they receive excellent health benefits. Most of the aides are in retirement age, so maybe the benefits are why they seek employment in public schools.
I volunteer at son's elementary school twice a week. I help the teacher out in the classroom, and man a literacy station. I usually go to lunch with the class and sit with my kid and the other kids. They are kindergartner's so I help them open their milk, packages, etc. and talk with them. It's the highlight of my week. I love being with these sweet kids.
There is an aide in the classroom that is downright mean. She has a scowl or frown on her face the entire time, and I have witnessed her being downright rude and contemptuous toward the children.
The aides also go to lunch with the class, and are lunchroom monitors while the teacher eats in the lounge. I have personally witnessed this aide and others yelling at the kids and chastising them in a mean tone. "You spilled your soup again, watch what you are doing!" "You need to pick your tray up, and carry it to the trash now!" One of the kids noticed there were seeds in another girl's plum and alerted the aide. In a very mean tone she replied, "don't you worry about her food, eat your own food." I have witnessed yelling, scolding, and smacking of hands on tables. These are 5-year old's. I notice that most of the kids look down and are startled and upset when they are spoken to in this manner. It pisses me off to no end that these employees speak to these kids this way. It would be very nice if these ignoramuses weren't around children.
I by no means coddle my child, but I do treat him and the other children with respect and kindness.
Should I complain to somebody? Write a letter? Why would these people work with children if they dislike them so much? They hourly fee isn't fabulous, but they receive excellent health benefits. Most of the aides are in retirement age, so maybe the benefits are why they seek employment in public schools.
Wearing your volunteer-responsible-adult cap, discuss your concerns about the atmosphere in the lunchroom and the aides' harsh words with the teacher. (Meanwhile, while wearing your parent cap, document, document, document, in case you see something egregious and need to make a fuss.)
I remember this sort of thing from MY kindergarden days nearly thirty years ago -- seems like there's always a few aides/staff who have become tired and jaded over time, but won't be "retired" because they have been there for so long.
posted by desuetude at 7:27 AM on September 25, 2006
I remember this sort of thing from MY kindergarden days nearly thirty years ago -- seems like there's always a few aides/staff who have become tired and jaded over time, but won't be "retired" because they have been there for so long.
posted by desuetude at 7:27 AM on September 25, 2006
I'd go with onhazier. The teacher probably doesn't have any power over the aide.
But first, take it directly to her. Tell her you find her behavior completely unacceptable, and see how she responds. Parents have a lot of power, especially in elementary schools.
posted by gramcracker at 7:31 AM on September 25, 2006
But first, take it directly to her. Tell her you find her behavior completely unacceptable, and see how she responds. Parents have a lot of power, especially in elementary schools.
posted by gramcracker at 7:31 AM on September 25, 2006
Next time you witness a child's hand being slapped notify that child's parents and the principal. I would be infuriated and there would be hell to pay. The verbal abuse is more difficult to deal with, since so much of it is in the tone and attitude rather than the actual words spoken, but do bring it up.
Those poor kids! Thanks for being their advocate. You have every reason to be outraged and to act accordingly.
posted by LadyBonita at 7:41 AM on September 25, 2006
Those poor kids! Thanks for being their advocate. You have every reason to be outraged and to act accordingly.
posted by LadyBonita at 7:41 AM on September 25, 2006
Even in a public school with unions or tenure, aides of the type you describe are often at-will employees, meaning that your complaint could result in the aide in question being immediately fired. While it may be deserved in her case, be prepared for the negative consequences to you and your kids of causing that kind of outcome -- other staff may not take kindly to your having done it.
posted by MattD at 7:56 AM on September 25, 2006
posted by MattD at 7:56 AM on September 25, 2006
Response by poster: LadyBonita, I didn't witness physical abuse, only "slapping hands on tables" whilst verbally scolding a child.
posted by LoriFLA at 8:19 AM on September 25, 2006
posted by LoriFLA at 8:19 AM on September 25, 2006
LadyBonita, I think LoriFLA meant the aide was banging her own hand on the table. Lori, if the aide is in fact hitting the kids hands, notify the principal immediately. That is totally unacceptable.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 8:21 AM on September 25, 2006
posted by gauchodaspampas at 8:21 AM on September 25, 2006
Oops. Should have previewed.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 8:21 AM on September 25, 2006
posted by gauchodaspampas at 8:21 AM on September 25, 2006
Response by poster: Thanks for the advice so far. If these aides were just being purely strict or were using an authoritative tone, I wouldn't give it a second thought. The fact that they are being nasty and mean is what peeves me.
posted by LoriFLA at 8:25 AM on September 25, 2006
posted by LoriFLA at 8:25 AM on September 25, 2006
Response by poster: that's okay gaucho's. I didn't clarify it much better in either of my posts. You are right--the aide was banging her own hand on the table.
posted by LoriFLA at 8:28 AM on September 25, 2006
posted by LoriFLA at 8:28 AM on September 25, 2006
I think you should do nothing. Seriously, Molly-coddling the children won't teach them anything except that they have control over their parents/teachers. A little bit of scolding won't hurt anything but their feelings.
posted by Gungho at 9:03 AM on September 25, 2006
posted by Gungho at 9:03 AM on September 25, 2006
Funny that you wrote this-- I was just thinking of a mean aide from when i was in the first grade.
She took outside to recess and rang the bell when it was time to come in. I had to go to the bathroom and asked her if I could go inside to go and she said no. I begged and she said no so i tried to hold it. The bell rings... I might make it...but alas, I dont.
I stood in line and peed my painters pants.
My teacher tried to call my mom but no one knew her work number. So I tied my snorkle coat aroound my waist and stayed the rest of the day in school.
Tell on her!! Does she have a child that goes to that school? If so I might even have the teacher keep an eye out for potential problems with the child that might indicate abuse.
posted by beccaj at 9:03 AM on September 25, 2006
She took outside to recess and rang the bell when it was time to come in. I had to go to the bathroom and asked her if I could go inside to go and she said no. I begged and she said no so i tried to hold it. The bell rings... I might make it...but alas, I dont.
I stood in line and peed my painters pants.
My teacher tried to call my mom but no one knew her work number. So I tied my snorkle coat aroound my waist and stayed the rest of the day in school.
Tell on her!! Does she have a child that goes to that school? If so I might even have the teacher keep an eye out for potential problems with the child that might indicate abuse.
posted by beccaj at 9:03 AM on September 25, 2006
Florida is one of those 23 great states that don't have a law against corporal punishment, so one can get away with a variety of non-grievous pain-infliction methods. Even some more questionable methods may not result in criminal prosecution for assault. Even with rules mitigating the severity of punishment, there will always be wiggle room and corporal punishment will happen.
The most permanent solutions involve outright bans obtained through the political process.
The easiest would be to make have the school board ban its use in your district. If you are actually on the school board, your job gets even easier. If you have a good volunteering track record and other credentials, why don't you consider running? It may not be that difficult in your district to get elected.
A harder route would be to make it illegal by state law. Good luck.
I went to high school in Louisiana (1990), another corporal punishment state. I was made (in concert band) to do push-ups within a week after having hernia surgery. When I told my parents about it, my step-dad took umbrage and called the school. The next day, I was called in by the disciplinarian, who very visibly displayed a working, embossed "board of education" on the wall behind him. He yelled at me for 20 minutes about not needing irate parents giving him and the school trouble. I was 15 and happy my staples didn't fail while doing the pushups. I didn't mention it again to my parents until after college.
posted by bafflegab at 9:13 AM on September 25, 2006
The most permanent solutions involve outright bans obtained through the political process.
The easiest would be to make have the school board ban its use in your district. If you are actually on the school board, your job gets even easier. If you have a good volunteering track record and other credentials, why don't you consider running? It may not be that difficult in your district to get elected.
A harder route would be to make it illegal by state law. Good luck.
I went to high school in Louisiana (1990), another corporal punishment state. I was made (in concert band) to do push-ups within a week after having hernia surgery. When I told my parents about it, my step-dad took umbrage and called the school. The next day, I was called in by the disciplinarian, who very visibly displayed a working, embossed "board of education" on the wall behind him. He yelled at me for 20 minutes about not needing irate parents giving him and the school trouble. I was 15 and happy my staples didn't fail while doing the pushups. I didn't mention it again to my parents until after college.
posted by bafflegab at 9:13 AM on September 25, 2006
Document, document, document. Tell, tell, tell. Be a squeaky wheel even if it means you are disliked by other staff. Children have no voice, and they need you to be their advocate. Your voice will make a difference. Please, I implore you, do something.
My sister teaches special ed and has aids who treated kids badly last year. She made it clear this year to the new aids that all dealings with the children will be respectful and professional, and anything otherwise will be reported immediately to the powers that be. She has had no trouble at all. The teacher CAN influence the aids' behavior. Ask the teacher to sit in on lunch just once and see what kind of difference it makes. And document, document, document. Tell, tell, tell. KIDS NEED LOVING ADULTS TO BE THEIR VOICE! Good for you for caring.
posted by orangemiles at 9:45 AM on September 25, 2006
My sister teaches special ed and has aids who treated kids badly last year. She made it clear this year to the new aids that all dealings with the children will be respectful and professional, and anything otherwise will be reported immediately to the powers that be. She has had no trouble at all. The teacher CAN influence the aids' behavior. Ask the teacher to sit in on lunch just once and see what kind of difference it makes. And document, document, document. Tell, tell, tell. KIDS NEED LOVING ADULTS TO BE THEIR VOICE! Good for you for caring.
posted by orangemiles at 9:45 AM on September 25, 2006
I'm with gungho on this one. Let's look at what was said:
"You spilled your soup again, watch what you are doing!" "You need to pick your tray up, and carry it to the trash now!" One of the kids noticed there were seeds in another girl's plum and alerted the aide. In a very mean tone she replied, "don't you worry about her food, eat your own food."
I don't find any of these things all that negative in-and-of themselves. Perhaps her tone irked you, but telling someone to stop spilling isn't abuse. Telling a child to eat their own food isn't abuse. Instructing a student to take their tray to the trash can isn't abuse.
It's wonderful that you are active and involved in your child's life--something many parents should take note of--however it seems like perhaps your roles as parent/volunteer/teacher are overlapping a bit too much here and you are overreacting.
Every child has experienced this kind of treatment in school, from K through 12 on into the college level. We all come out fine, for the most part, and really the amount of educators who behave the way you are describing is small.
If these aides were just being purely strict or were using an authoritative tone, I wouldn't give it a second thought. The fact that they are being nasty and mean is what peeves me.
Or would you? Again, look at what they said. Don't spill, put away your tray, etc. Those things simply seem strict to me--even when said with contempt--and when I was in elementary school I'm sure we would have cracked jokes about these nasty old women behind their backs and have forgotten about it by the time we were on the soccer field at recess.
Do keep an eye on these people, though, and do document what goes on. What I would be worried about most are insults and ridicule coming from the teachers, not simply harsh instruction/scolding. As soon as it crosses that line, you may have a leg to stand on, otherwise I think you're out of luck on this one.
posted by dead_ at 9:59 AM on September 25, 2006
"You spilled your soup again, watch what you are doing!" "You need to pick your tray up, and carry it to the trash now!" One of the kids noticed there were seeds in another girl's plum and alerted the aide. In a very mean tone she replied, "don't you worry about her food, eat your own food."
I don't find any of these things all that negative in-and-of themselves. Perhaps her tone irked you, but telling someone to stop spilling isn't abuse. Telling a child to eat their own food isn't abuse. Instructing a student to take their tray to the trash can isn't abuse.
It's wonderful that you are active and involved in your child's life--something many parents should take note of--however it seems like perhaps your roles as parent/volunteer/teacher are overlapping a bit too much here and you are overreacting.
Every child has experienced this kind of treatment in school, from K through 12 on into the college level. We all come out fine, for the most part, and really the amount of educators who behave the way you are describing is small.
If these aides were just being purely strict or were using an authoritative tone, I wouldn't give it a second thought. The fact that they are being nasty and mean is what peeves me.
Or would you? Again, look at what they said. Don't spill, put away your tray, etc. Those things simply seem strict to me--even when said with contempt--and when I was in elementary school I'm sure we would have cracked jokes about these nasty old women behind their backs and have forgotten about it by the time we were on the soccer field at recess.
Do keep an eye on these people, though, and do document what goes on. What I would be worried about most are insults and ridicule coming from the teachers, not simply harsh instruction/scolding. As soon as it crosses that line, you may have a leg to stand on, otherwise I think you're out of luck on this one.
posted by dead_ at 9:59 AM on September 25, 2006
Response by poster: Maybe I am making too big of a deal, but like I said, it's the impatient, nasty tone. I guess you have to be there.
It's only September and some of these employees are unnecessarily rude to the kids. I think the majority of the kids will get over it, or quickly forget it, but it still upsets me. Especially since these are kindergarteners.
I don't know if I will say anything now, but I will document. If I see the behavior continuing or escalating I will write a letter. Thanks all.
posted by LoriFLA at 11:39 AM on September 25, 2006
It's only September and some of these employees are unnecessarily rude to the kids. I think the majority of the kids will get over it, or quickly forget it, but it still upsets me. Especially since these are kindergarteners.
I don't know if I will say anything now, but I will document. If I see the behavior continuing or escalating I will write a letter. Thanks all.
posted by LoriFLA at 11:39 AM on September 25, 2006
Seriously, Molly-coddling the children won't teach them anything except that they have control over their parents/teachers. A little bit of scolding won't hurt anything but their feelings.
I felt this same way when my daughter had a difficult Pre-K teacher last year. Her teacher was constantly harping on her negative behavior (to my daughter and to my wife and I), was unreasonably rigid for dealing with 4- and 5-year-olds, and was noticeably inconsistent with discipline.
I thought that my daughter would have to learn to deal with difficult teachers eventually, and that a little discipline wouldn't hurt her natural wild-child nature.
By December, we noticed that our daughter no longer wanted to go to school, and became more and more dismissive of her own abilities and more resigned to the fact that she "always did bad things". After a particularly egregious example, we spoke to the head of school and she agreed that my daughter needed to be moved to a different class. She was, and it made a world of difference.
I still realize that she will need to learn to temper her behavior and to geal with strict teachers, but when it started to affect her enthusiasm for school and her self-confidence, we drew the line.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:51 PM on September 25, 2006
I felt this same way when my daughter had a difficult Pre-K teacher last year. Her teacher was constantly harping on her negative behavior (to my daughter and to my wife and I), was unreasonably rigid for dealing with 4- and 5-year-olds, and was noticeably inconsistent with discipline.
I thought that my daughter would have to learn to deal with difficult teachers eventually, and that a little discipline wouldn't hurt her natural wild-child nature.
By December, we noticed that our daughter no longer wanted to go to school, and became more and more dismissive of her own abilities and more resigned to the fact that she "always did bad things". After a particularly egregious example, we spoke to the head of school and she agreed that my daughter needed to be moved to a different class. She was, and it made a world of difference.
I still realize that she will need to learn to temper her behavior and to geal with strict teachers, but when it started to affect her enthusiasm for school and her self-confidence, we drew the line.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:51 PM on September 25, 2006
First , decide what's important. It may be possible to get the aide disciplined, or even fired, but it won't be easy.
Much better, I think, is to find a way to get the kids treated right, even if it means some sacrifice from you.
The aide seems very angry. She probably has trouble with her own kids. Maybe her husband has a low-paying job and she's been forced into doing this work, or maybe she's a single mother.
What she needs is a friend and a sympathetic ear. Smile at her, get her into conversations, have lunch with her, and have a little girl-talk. She needs a way to bleed off the pressure. The kids need it, too.
Even if you hate her, remember you're doing it for the kids.
posted by KRS at 12:53 PM on September 25, 2006
Much better, I think, is to find a way to get the kids treated right, even if it means some sacrifice from you.
The aide seems very angry. She probably has trouble with her own kids. Maybe her husband has a low-paying job and she's been forced into doing this work, or maybe she's a single mother.
What she needs is a friend and a sympathetic ear. Smile at her, get her into conversations, have lunch with her, and have a little girl-talk. She needs a way to bleed off the pressure. The kids need it, too.
Even if you hate her, remember you're doing it for the kids.
posted by KRS at 12:53 PM on September 25, 2006
I guess I didn't really give my advice explicitly, there. Keep an eye on it. If it begins to noticeably affect your child or others, speak up to the administration.
posted by Rock Steady at 1:01 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Rock Steady at 1:01 PM on September 25, 2006
Response by poster: The aide that has a permanent scowl on her face and makes the rudest remarks is well into her sixties. She is also in my son's classroom for a length of time everyday. She is crotchety and rude. Besides having a nasty tone, I often catch her rolling her eyes at the kids or showing lots of disappointment or annoyance on her face--especially while kids are washing their hands at the sink, or making a "mess". I will definitely keep an eye out, and report her if need be. I don't think it would hurt to have an in-service or a policy of kindness and respect. To me it's just plain common sense to treat people with decency. I guess this lady is miserable, and doesn't mind upsetting small kids.
posted by LoriFLA at 1:21 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by LoriFLA at 1:21 PM on September 25, 2006
LoriFLA, I'm with you. Memories being scolded by my teachers still sting, but it wasn't until I worked as a teacher's assistant myself that I realized how many of those reprimands were wholly unjust and out-of-line. Most kids don't have the capability or confidence to realize that some authority figures are just assholes, especially since it's drilled into their heads that these authority figures wield The Power of God over them. When I started working with kids as an adult I was completely dumbfounded by how bitchy a certain teacher was to her students (ages 5-7). Yet when I asked the kids, "Do you like Mrs. X?" they'd always say yes. I take this to mean not that her bitchiness didn't affect them, but that most kids just fundamentally want to like their teachers, causing her bitchiness to affect them more because they're more likely to internalize the words and tone of someone they love and respect.
I totally don't buy that not allowing the sort of behavior you're talking about is equivalent to coddling the kids. There's a HUGE difference between disciplining a child who's misbehaved while still treating him or her with respect, and being a total bitch. The principle of fair and just treatment applies to adults, so why shouldn't it apply to kids? Implying that children should unfailingly obey authority figures even when those authority figures treat them unjustly is a huge mindfuck for kids, and no, I don't think we all emerge from it unscathed.
I think this person is probably unhappy in and out of the classroom, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to try and get her fired. Obviously, at a practical level, this is not the right job for her - for her own wellbeing or for that of the kids she works with - but I doubt she'd buy the idea that leaving would be in everyone's best interest.
I wonder how she is with the adults in the classroom, and how she discusses the kids with other adults. I also wonder if you could find out - even by directly asking her, without revealing your motives - what the hell she's doing there in the first place. What I'd do is engage her in conversation about her behavior in a roundabout way, see if I could figure her out that way, and then move forward from there. I think there's a very delicate way of bringing up the subject without offending her (from a practical standpoint it seems that would just make things worse). If that method didn't help, mentioning it to the teacher might, although I think teachers are often pretty protective of their classroom assistants.
In any event, I think some action is definitely called for. Good luck to you - you have in mind the best interests not only of your own kids but of the whole class, and I think that's wonderful (my tearful eight-year-old self thanks you, too!).
posted by granted at 3:22 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
I totally don't buy that not allowing the sort of behavior you're talking about is equivalent to coddling the kids. There's a HUGE difference between disciplining a child who's misbehaved while still treating him or her with respect, and being a total bitch. The principle of fair and just treatment applies to adults, so why shouldn't it apply to kids? Implying that children should unfailingly obey authority figures even when those authority figures treat them unjustly is a huge mindfuck for kids, and no, I don't think we all emerge from it unscathed.
I think this person is probably unhappy in and out of the classroom, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to try and get her fired. Obviously, at a practical level, this is not the right job for her - for her own wellbeing or for that of the kids she works with - but I doubt she'd buy the idea that leaving would be in everyone's best interest.
I wonder how she is with the adults in the classroom, and how she discusses the kids with other adults. I also wonder if you could find out - even by directly asking her, without revealing your motives - what the hell she's doing there in the first place. What I'd do is engage her in conversation about her behavior in a roundabout way, see if I could figure her out that way, and then move forward from there. I think there's a very delicate way of bringing up the subject without offending her (from a practical standpoint it seems that would just make things worse). If that method didn't help, mentioning it to the teacher might, although I think teachers are often pretty protective of their classroom assistants.
In any event, I think some action is definitely called for. Good luck to you - you have in mind the best interests not only of your own kids but of the whole class, and I think that's wonderful (my tearful eight-year-old self thanks you, too!).
posted by granted at 3:22 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
It may not be abuse in the truest sense of the word but, if you were dating someone who rolled their eyes at you and bitched everytime you spilled your soup and treated you with a complete lack of respect, you'd probably move on. These kids are in the complete power of this person and those little things can mount up to be the reason they hate going to school. It did for me in the second grade. I would see what sort of a relationship the teacher has with the aid then talk with the teacher based on how you feel the teacher will react. If it were my class, I would take time out from my break to check out the situation myself, I bet your teacher does the same.
posted by Foam Pants at 4:22 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Foam Pants at 4:22 PM on September 25, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by onhazier at 7:15 AM on September 25, 2006