Is Landis a dope?
July 27, 2006 4:49 PM Subscribe
Floyd Landis' positive test-are there ANY other scenarios that would cause this test to be positive other than him doping? I'm not ready to have all my illusions shattered just yet...
Yes; he could be using some legal medication or just naturally have really high levels of testosterone.
posted by thirteenkiller at 4:51 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by thirteenkiller at 4:51 PM on July 27, 2006
From SportsFilter, most of the way down:
Cycling analyst on PTI said the ratio in Landis was at 11-1 & that his epitestosterone was very low while testosterone level was normal. He believes Floyd is clean.
posted by catfish at 4:56 PM CDT on July 27
If this is true, then it seems open and shut "clean" to me. But I'm not a doping scientist, so ymmv.
posted by The Michael The at 4:57 PM on July 27, 2006
Cycling analyst on PTI said the ratio in Landis was at 11-1 & that his epitestosterone was very low while testosterone level was normal. He believes Floyd is clean.
posted by catfish at 4:56 PM CDT on July 27
If this is true, then it seems open and shut "clean" to me. But I'm not a doping scientist, so ymmv.
posted by The Michael The at 4:57 PM on July 27, 2006
Also, read this article, which to my knowledge is his only public statement yet (and what fixedgear's info comes from).
posted by The Michael The at 5:03 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by The Michael The at 5:03 PM on July 27, 2006
He's on a number of drugs related to the necrosis in his hip, including cortisone. On NPR's Day To Day there was speculation that the cortisone could be causing the problem.
Also, testosterone is an unusual thing for a cyclist to be using, since it doesn't offer that much benefit. It's usually EPO that's the main culprit, since it increases the number of red blood cells and thus the delivery of oxygen to muscles.
posted by dw at 5:10 PM on July 27, 2006
Also, testosterone is an unusual thing for a cyclist to be using, since it doesn't offer that much benefit. It's usually EPO that's the main culprit, since it increases the number of red blood cells and thus the delivery of oxygen to muscles.
posted by dw at 5:10 PM on July 27, 2006
The French are being pissy because Americans keep winning the Tour de France.
One of their testing labs tried to stick it to Lance Armstrong last year. Eventually that result was repudiated and the lab was censured.
So Lance Armstrong finally retired, and now this year yet another damned American won the race. Mon Dieu! (And that after French testing labs managed to get the three top foreigners disqualified from the race before it began.)
At this point, the thing to do is to wait and see whether the result is duplicated by another lab, one without an axe to grind. My bet is that it's another phony.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 5:12 PM on July 27, 2006
One of their testing labs tried to stick it to Lance Armstrong last year. Eventually that result was repudiated and the lab was censured.
So Lance Armstrong finally retired, and now this year yet another damned American won the race. Mon Dieu! (And that after French testing labs managed to get the three top foreigners disqualified from the race before it began.)
At this point, the thing to do is to wait and see whether the result is duplicated by another lab, one without an axe to grind. My bet is that it's another phony.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 5:12 PM on July 27, 2006
kottke.org has the same thread going. I would say that all is speculation for now until further analysis can be carried out.
posted by pwally at 6:33 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by pwally at 6:33 PM on July 27, 2006
The tests were done by the Swiss
Bankers for the Nazi.
Tell me again why we trust them with anything?
Humor aside, I disagree with Steven C. Den Beste's conclusion. It was Armstrong's perceived arrogance, along with the robotic manner in which he won most of his tours, that earned the animosity of tour organizers and the French press. His nationality was of secondary importance.
Floyd Landis, on the other hand, was very approachable and self-effacing, two qualities that endeared him to the French press and tour organizers when he first emerged as a front-runner, and even more so when he was reborn upon the slopes of Morzine. After Morzine, the nationality of the presumptive winner was hardly even discussed.
So no, I don't believe that Landis' positive test is in any way related to his nationality.
The Michael The's post has given me hope, however, that there might yet be a legitimate explanation.
posted by The Confessor at 6:47 PM on July 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
Bankers for the Nazi.
Tell me again why we trust them with anything?
Humor aside, I disagree with Steven C. Den Beste's conclusion. It was Armstrong's perceived arrogance, along with the robotic manner in which he won most of his tours, that earned the animosity of tour organizers and the French press. His nationality was of secondary importance.
Floyd Landis, on the other hand, was very approachable and self-effacing, two qualities that endeared him to the French press and tour organizers when he first emerged as a front-runner, and even more so when he was reborn upon the slopes of Morzine. After Morzine, the nationality of the presumptive winner was hardly even discussed.
So no, I don't believe that Landis' positive test is in any way related to his nationality.
The Michael The's post has given me hope, however, that there might yet be a legitimate explanation.
posted by The Confessor at 6:47 PM on July 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
I heard the test results described as an "abnormality" rather than a "positive" for steroids. In that difference maybe there's hope?
posted by Hildago at 7:47 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by Hildago at 7:47 PM on July 27, 2006
Cycling analyst on PTI said the ratio in Landis was at 11-1 & that his epitestosterone was very low while testosterone level was normal. He believes Floyd is clean.
What compounds might depress epitestosterone levels? Does Landis have a history of an odd ratio?
posted by Chuckles at 9:05 PM on July 27, 2006
What compounds might depress epitestosterone levels? Does Landis have a history of an odd ratio?
posted by Chuckles at 9:05 PM on July 27, 2006
Cortisone would almost certainly have some effect on hormone levels. When my bf was on it for Crohns disease he got much more aggressive and his skin got bad and I remember the doctor saying that those were common side effects and realted to testosterone.
posted by fshgrl at 9:32 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by fshgrl at 9:32 PM on July 27, 2006
The French are being pissy because Americans keep winning the Tour de France.
The French had nothing to do with the cases of Landis, Ullrich, Basso, or Mancebo. The Landis testing was done by a lab in Switzerland. The others were implicated by a police raid in Spain.
posted by JackFlash at 10:17 PM on July 27, 2006
The French had nothing to do with the cases of Landis, Ullrich, Basso, or Mancebo. The Landis testing was done by a lab in Switzerland. The others were implicated by a police raid in Spain.
posted by JackFlash at 10:17 PM on July 27, 2006
Sorry to shatter your illusions, but all pro athletes are on some kind of performance-enhancing drug. They'd be pros without it, sure, but to say that banning some substances leads to a level playing field is highly naive, and personally, I don't care if they're using. None of them, with the exception of pro bodybuilders - yuck) are doing it in a way that hurts themselves, so it doesn't make a difference to me whether someone breaks a record with or without using.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 11:28 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by Mr. Gunn at 11:28 PM on July 27, 2006
That just isn't true Mr. Gunn. Young athletes drop dead quite regularly - one can never be certain of the cause, but.. Birgit Dressel is the classic case. We aren't talking about 'harm', we are talking d-e-a-d.
posted by Chuckles at 11:47 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by Chuckles at 11:47 PM on July 27, 2006
Floyd Landis, on the other hand, was very approachable and self-effacing, two qualities that endeared him to the French press and tour organizers when he first emerged as a front-runner, and even more so when he was reborn upon the slopes of Morzine. After Morzine, the nationality of the presumptive winner was hardly even discussed.I disagree. I would characterize the initial press reaction as grudging acceptance. A good example is the frequently discussed story where it was said that Floyd lacked panache. I do agree that he was embraced much more warmly post-Morzine. I also think the idea that the French would somehow taint the results to "get" an American is silly. They have much more to lose if the entire sport is dragged down.
posted by Lame_username at 5:57 AM on July 28, 2006
Steven C. Den Beste is just repeating the L*F talking points. Like them, he hasn't actually bothered to investigate the allegations.
Wait for a few more days until the B sample result comes back: apparently, every rider who has contested a testosterone result in the past has won their appeal.
posted by blag at 6:46 AM on July 28, 2006
Wait for a few more days until the B sample result comes back: apparently, every rider who has contested a testosterone result in the past has won their appeal.
posted by blag at 6:46 AM on July 28, 2006
...so it doesn't make a difference to me whether someone breaks a record with or without using.
Mr. Gunn, I was with you right up until that sentence. If player A and player B both break the same record at the same time, and player A is using steroids, but player B is not, that doesn't make any difference?
posted by Hildago at 4:59 PM on July 28, 2006
Mr. Gunn, I was with you right up until that sentence. If player A and player B both break the same record at the same time, and player A is using steroids, but player B is not, that doesn't make any difference?
posted by Hildago at 4:59 PM on July 28, 2006
Landis' B second sample confirms original finding.
And a link to the MeFi thread: Tour winner disgraced? John's comment in the MeFi thread is worth special attention, I think.
posted by Chuckles at 4:54 AM on August 5, 2006
And a link to the MeFi thread: Tour winner disgraced? John's comment in the MeFi thread is worth special attention, I think.
posted by Chuckles at 4:54 AM on August 5, 2006
Another Landis thread in Mefi - Floyd Landis' Defense Online.
posted by Chuckles at 1:03 PM on October 13, 2006
posted by Chuckles at 1:03 PM on October 13, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by fixedgear at 4:50 PM on July 27, 2006