Help me get a job!
July 18, 2006 5:09 AM Subscribe
IT/IS Managers: Help Wanted. How do i get a job in IT or IS?
i'm trying to get a job in a computer related field. at this point, i dont even care what field it is as long as its not a call center. i did 3 years as Information Management NCO in my army unit. i was responsible for the Network, desktop installations, password, ect. this gave me experience but no formal training. next i went to work at an electronics company. i passed every test they used to evaluate their techs. with no certifications, I still ended up doing customer service. i worked there a year. they strung me along telling me i would be the next person promoted from desk jockey to tech. it never happened. i now teach computer resources at an elementary school. my kids do html, excel, and access. i teach them basic computer trouble shooting techniques and how to do Internet research. i won this job over 3 school district techs who were tired of slaving up and down the road rebooting networks and running virus scans. when they both quit, i applied for a position. even after two years creating the most comprehensive computer education program in my state, the recruiter looked at my resume long enough to realize i didnt have the certifications he wanted. but i'd been maintaining my school's network for 2 years. i handled all network issues myself. they never had to send anyone out to troubleshoot our systems because the server room was next to my classroom. working on it was similar to what i'd done in the Army. i even ordered my own parts.
my original degree is in music education. i went back to school for computer science a year ago. i have 3 semesters left. my son was born 6 months ago, which halted my plans for an illustrious 4 year degree in comp sci.
at this point i'm desperate. i've looked into 2 year programs at tech schools. i've looked into satellite programs from schools similar to ITT Tech. i've looked into online comp sci degrees. with an infant son, i have no idea how i'm going to ever achieve my goal of working in computers. I've always been a hardware guy. but my brothers program. i often spend weekends in their computer rooms helping them puzzle out programs and debugging their work. i KNOW i can do what they do. i just have no idea how to get there.
one of my brothers says to spend my money on Certs. he says his recruiter only looks at certs and treats 2 year degrees like masters degrees - all he cares about is experience. my other brother swears by the comp sci degree. he says that most recruiters dont know what half those Certs are. He says that experience wont get you a job because they have to justify your salary and degrees are how you do that.
HELP: what would be the fastest way for me to get a solid job in IT or IS. at this point, i dont care if its as a programmer, rebooting networks or replacing hard drives at the local Geek Shop. i dont care where it is either. i live in SC, but if i can go from desk jockey to IS supervisor like my brother, i'll move without a second thought.
i'm trying to get a job in a computer related field. at this point, i dont even care what field it is as long as its not a call center. i did 3 years as Information Management NCO in my army unit. i was responsible for the Network, desktop installations, password, ect. this gave me experience but no formal training. next i went to work at an electronics company. i passed every test they used to evaluate their techs. with no certifications, I still ended up doing customer service. i worked there a year. they strung me along telling me i would be the next person promoted from desk jockey to tech. it never happened. i now teach computer resources at an elementary school. my kids do html, excel, and access. i teach them basic computer trouble shooting techniques and how to do Internet research. i won this job over 3 school district techs who were tired of slaving up and down the road rebooting networks and running virus scans. when they both quit, i applied for a position. even after two years creating the most comprehensive computer education program in my state, the recruiter looked at my resume long enough to realize i didnt have the certifications he wanted. but i'd been maintaining my school's network for 2 years. i handled all network issues myself. they never had to send anyone out to troubleshoot our systems because the server room was next to my classroom. working on it was similar to what i'd done in the Army. i even ordered my own parts.
my original degree is in music education. i went back to school for computer science a year ago. i have 3 semesters left. my son was born 6 months ago, which halted my plans for an illustrious 4 year degree in comp sci.
at this point i'm desperate. i've looked into 2 year programs at tech schools. i've looked into satellite programs from schools similar to ITT Tech. i've looked into online comp sci degrees. with an infant son, i have no idea how i'm going to ever achieve my goal of working in computers. I've always been a hardware guy. but my brothers program. i often spend weekends in their computer rooms helping them puzzle out programs and debugging their work. i KNOW i can do what they do. i just have no idea how to get there.
one of my brothers says to spend my money on Certs. he says his recruiter only looks at certs and treats 2 year degrees like masters degrees - all he cares about is experience. my other brother swears by the comp sci degree. he says that most recruiters dont know what half those Certs are. He says that experience wont get you a job because they have to justify your salary and degrees are how you do that.
HELP: what would be the fastest way for me to get a solid job in IT or IS. at this point, i dont care if its as a programmer, rebooting networks or replacing hard drives at the local Geek Shop. i dont care where it is either. i live in SC, but if i can go from desk jockey to IS supervisor like my brother, i'll move without a second thought.
You could easily move into management at a local PC parts supplier chain. I'm not sure what local PC stores are in your area, but I'm sure there is a local chain (In Ohio we have PC Club, for instance). They look for experience, not cert's necessarily. They might only be able to fit you in with basic hardware monkey at first, but if you really know your stuff like you say then it will be apparent within weeks of starting and you'll move into management quickly.
Of course, the pay options limit rather quickly in that type of environment. Even Best Buy's "Geek Squad" wouldn't be a horrible place to go. I have a friend that works there. He started off as an in-store technician, but recently was promoted to a DA - "Double Agent" - basically a tech that makes house calls. His pay is impressive considering his lack of schooling, and someone like you could very easily slide into that position.
However, I think your best opportunity might be to check out some local temp agencies. You just need to get your foot in the door somewhere. It's true that a lot of people without cert's/degrees don't get hired in the IT industry. It's not because they aren't as good as those who have them, but simply because employers use that as a filtering criteria when going through hundreds of resumes. If you know IT managers, you know the last thing they want to do is conduct hundreds of interviews. Filtering the applicants by certification/degree quickly reduces the possible choices by at least 75% I'd say. Sure, it's not the "fair' way to do it (a LOT of the most experienced guys in the business are old-school - they grew up with the birth of this technology, before the certifications were around!), but it's the easy way.
So yes, you need to get your foot in the door somewhere. Then work your way up. If the position is a dead end, you'll know within 6 months I'd say. Even if it doesn't go anywhere, it's valuable experience for your resume.
I'm sort of in the same boat as you. I've done IT my whole life (I'm only 20 though ;)), and I've never gone to college or have any certifications (Well, I am MS PowerPoint certified!). I knew a guy that was the IS manager at a local City building though. He called me up when I got out of high school and said they needed a part time position, just helping out with user support and stuff. I took the job and now, 3 years later, I'm the lead network and voice hardware technician. I support out NEC 2400 PBX, dozens of Windows 2003 server systems, and 500+ users in a domain environment. I had to work part time through a temp agency for over a year to get to that point, but it paid off in the end!
Not having the cert's on paper is bad for people like us. It makes it much more difficult to get the job we deserve. However, it is by no means impossible. Start making connections with people in the business. Take some cruddy temp jobs doing user support. Get on one of those job site's mailing lists where people contact you for one-time jobs (i.e. - "This weekend only, need 15 people to relocate and setup 100 user workstations and printers"). Meet the managers, get yourself known, build a reputation for yourself. You have to know someone to get in - it helps anyway!
posted by sprocket87 at 5:28 AM on July 18, 2006
Of course, the pay options limit rather quickly in that type of environment. Even Best Buy's "Geek Squad" wouldn't be a horrible place to go. I have a friend that works there. He started off as an in-store technician, but recently was promoted to a DA - "Double Agent" - basically a tech that makes house calls. His pay is impressive considering his lack of schooling, and someone like you could very easily slide into that position.
However, I think your best opportunity might be to check out some local temp agencies. You just need to get your foot in the door somewhere. It's true that a lot of people without cert's/degrees don't get hired in the IT industry. It's not because they aren't as good as those who have them, but simply because employers use that as a filtering criteria when going through hundreds of resumes. If you know IT managers, you know the last thing they want to do is conduct hundreds of interviews. Filtering the applicants by certification/degree quickly reduces the possible choices by at least 75% I'd say. Sure, it's not the "fair' way to do it (a LOT of the most experienced guys in the business are old-school - they grew up with the birth of this technology, before the certifications were around!), but it's the easy way.
So yes, you need to get your foot in the door somewhere. Then work your way up. If the position is a dead end, you'll know within 6 months I'd say. Even if it doesn't go anywhere, it's valuable experience for your resume.
I'm sort of in the same boat as you. I've done IT my whole life (I'm only 20 though ;)), and I've never gone to college or have any certifications (Well, I am MS PowerPoint certified!). I knew a guy that was the IS manager at a local City building though. He called me up when I got out of high school and said they needed a part time position, just helping out with user support and stuff. I took the job and now, 3 years later, I'm the lead network and voice hardware technician. I support out NEC 2400 PBX, dozens of Windows 2003 server systems, and 500+ users in a domain environment. I had to work part time through a temp agency for over a year to get to that point, but it paid off in the end!
Not having the cert's on paper is bad for people like us. It makes it much more difficult to get the job we deserve. However, it is by no means impossible. Start making connections with people in the business. Take some cruddy temp jobs doing user support. Get on one of those job site's mailing lists where people contact you for one-time jobs (i.e. - "This weekend only, need 15 people to relocate and setup 100 user workstations and printers"). Meet the managers, get yourself known, build a reputation for yourself. You have to know someone to get in - it helps anyway!
posted by sprocket87 at 5:28 AM on July 18, 2006
Experience counts for WAY more than a certification. Try to get a job as a Help Desk analyst somewhere... a university, a school, a business... and build up your skills. They may even pay for you to get a certification.
posted by k8t at 6:43 AM on July 18, 2006
posted by k8t at 6:43 AM on July 18, 2006
Experience especially counts with small businesses. I was able to get a leg up in the industry by going to work for a startup which eventually got bought up. This was after 3 years of shitty phone support and temp jobs.
Having a 4 year degree would help tremendously. While you are probably more talented than the average college lackey, there are enough people out there looking for jobs that have a degree than employers can demand that for even the lowliest tech jobs. And still pay next to nothing.
I imagine certs would be useful if that's what the employer was looking for. However it's hardly a guarantee, and the degree would serve you better. My friend has loads of experience in IT, is talented, and has his MCSE, and gets paid like a high school kid to do IT work.
The locale you're looking for work in might be an issue, too. Have you considered moving to a market with more opportunities?
posted by kableh at 7:00 AM on July 18, 2006
Having a 4 year degree would help tremendously. While you are probably more talented than the average college lackey, there are enough people out there looking for jobs that have a degree than employers can demand that for even the lowliest tech jobs. And still pay next to nothing.
I imagine certs would be useful if that's what the employer was looking for. However it's hardly a guarantee, and the degree would serve you better. My friend has loads of experience in IT, is talented, and has his MCSE, and gets paid like a high school kid to do IT work.
The locale you're looking for work in might be an issue, too. Have you considered moving to a market with more opportunities?
posted by kableh at 7:00 AM on July 18, 2006
As an IT manger, I look for the following traits when hiring:
1. Experience
2. Knowledge
3. Logical troubleshooting skills
4. How one keeps up with technology
5. How passionate one is about IT
I have conducted several hundred interviews for Network Specialist and System Technicians positions. I found a lot of people who have certification's who don't have practical knowledge regarding the subject. I'd rather have someone well versed through hands-on experience then someone whose read a couple of books and passed a test.
If you are starting off fresh in the field, I suggest building a home network. Start tinkering, build servers, create backup jobs....etc.
I would be more apt to hire a newbie who has:
*Good logical troubleshooting skills
*Keeps up with technology on their own by reading techie sites
*Runs a home network and tries out new hardware/software
* Is passionate about IT. (Spends 9 hours a day at work on a computer, and then goes home and spends another 5 and calls it relaxing).
-----
And if you have the traits listed about with Novell and ZenWork experience and want to work in the Lansing, Michigan Area - I'm Hiring.
posted by bleucube at 7:00 AM on July 18, 2006
1. Experience
2. Knowledge
3. Logical troubleshooting skills
4. How one keeps up with technology
5. How passionate one is about IT
I have conducted several hundred interviews for Network Specialist and System Technicians positions. I found a lot of people who have certification's who don't have practical knowledge regarding the subject. I'd rather have someone well versed through hands-on experience then someone whose read a couple of books and passed a test.
If you are starting off fresh in the field, I suggest building a home network. Start tinkering, build servers, create backup jobs....etc.
I would be more apt to hire a newbie who has:
*Good logical troubleshooting skills
*Keeps up with technology on their own by reading techie sites
*Runs a home network and tries out new hardware/software
* Is passionate about IT. (Spends 9 hours a day at work on a computer, and then goes home and spends another 5 and calls it relaxing).
-----
And if you have the traits listed about with Novell and ZenWork experience and want to work in the Lansing, Michigan Area - I'm Hiring.
posted by bleucube at 7:00 AM on July 18, 2006
I'm an English major who's ended up doing Linux administration.
My first totally-computer related job was as a Software Trainer- there's a bunch of companies that do this, and it was a good resume building job, even if the work was mundane- mostly showing people how to use MS Office and QuarkXpress. I worked for an IBM subsidiary, though, and so that switched the focus of my resume from "writer dude who does some tech stuff" to "tech dude who can teach and develop corporate courseware."
From there, I took a job at a university, on a help desk we we'd also get out an do deskside support. Again, a lot of mundane work, but I worked hard to learn from the sysadmins and to gain their trust. Eventually, I got promoted to the back room, and from there the department paid for some training costs (like k8t suggests...). Though I've never gotten an actual certificate. I've stayed in academia, and the certs don't seem to count as much here.
The span between those jobs was about four years though, so persistence pays off.
posted by bendybendy at 7:13 AM on July 18, 2006
My first totally-computer related job was as a Software Trainer- there's a bunch of companies that do this, and it was a good resume building job, even if the work was mundane- mostly showing people how to use MS Office and QuarkXpress. I worked for an IBM subsidiary, though, and so that switched the focus of my resume from "writer dude who does some tech stuff" to "tech dude who can teach and develop corporate courseware."
From there, I took a job at a university, on a help desk we we'd also get out an do deskside support. Again, a lot of mundane work, but I worked hard to learn from the sysadmins and to gain their trust. Eventually, I got promoted to the back room, and from there the department paid for some training costs (like k8t suggests...). Though I've never gotten an actual certificate. I've stayed in academia, and the certs don't seem to count as much here.
The span between those jobs was about four years though, so persistence pays off.
posted by bendybendy at 7:13 AM on July 18, 2006
Weird. It looks to me like you have plenty of experience in a SysAdmin-type-role... from your description, every small company I've worked at would at least want to pull you in for an interview. I wonder if there's another problem here.
How far are you getting through the interview process before being weeded out?
posted by Leon at 8:30 AM on July 18, 2006
How far are you getting through the interview process before being weeded out?
posted by Leon at 8:30 AM on July 18, 2006
I skirted your long request, but when I saw 'i dont care if its as a programmer, rebooting networks or replacing hard drives at the local Geek Shop' at the bottom, and then the fact that you are in SC like myself, I had to jump in...
I don't see how anybody could do anything they weren't specifically interested in; once you pin that down, doors will prolly open for you.
To the earlier IT manager, looks like I'm your man! :-)
posted by BillyG at 8:44 AM on July 18, 2006
I don't see how anybody could do anything they weren't specifically interested in; once you pin that down, doors will prolly open for you.
To the earlier IT manager, looks like I'm your man! :-)
posted by BillyG at 8:44 AM on July 18, 2006
one of my brothers says to spend my money on Certs. he says his recruiter only looks at certs and treats 2 year degrees like masters degrees - all he cares about is experience. my other brother swears by the comp sci degree. he says that most recruiters dont know what half those Certs are.
They are both partially right, but I think you should focus more on certs and less on compsci. Computer Science degrees do not qualify anyone to work in IT (you should start calling it "IT" and not "computers," btw). In a CS you learn things like how to build a file system from scratch and math theory that you'll never need on the ground in an IT job. I've worked alongside CS grads and non CS grads and I have not seen a big benefit to an IT job for that degree. If you are going to go into research or advanced development, then yes, you need all that theory.
Your second brother is right that the recruiters don't know what the certs mean. But they still consider the certs important. You have good fundamental aptitudes and some good field experience, too. Get some certs as rubber stamps to placate the jackass recruiters. Who knows, you might learn something along the way.
posted by scarabic at 8:47 AM on July 18, 2006
They are both partially right, but I think you should focus more on certs and less on compsci. Computer Science degrees do not qualify anyone to work in IT (you should start calling it "IT" and not "computers," btw). In a CS you learn things like how to build a file system from scratch and math theory that you'll never need on the ground in an IT job. I've worked alongside CS grads and non CS grads and I have not seen a big benefit to an IT job for that degree. If you are going to go into research or advanced development, then yes, you need all that theory.
Your second brother is right that the recruiters don't know what the certs mean. But they still consider the certs important. You have good fundamental aptitudes and some good field experience, too. Get some certs as rubber stamps to placate the jackass recruiters. Who knows, you might learn something along the way.
posted by scarabic at 8:47 AM on July 18, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
Getting certifications won't hurt, but if this were me I'd start by reworking the resume to highlight the experience I did have. Then I'd post that resume to job boards where I knew IT recruiter types were (Monster, Dice, etc.)
posted by jcummings1974 at 5:18 AM on July 18, 2006