Certificate of Occupancy Deviations
July 12, 2006 2:16 PM Subscribe
NewHomeFilter: I want to buy a house with NO floor covering installed!
OK, here's the deal. I can have wood floors installed at a much better price AFTER closing than by having the builder install them. The only thing is, the builder says they have to at least install carpet (which is already included in the price) or they can't get a "certificate of occupancy", which will prevent us closing on it.
I just hate to have the builder install something that I will end up tearing out the very next day anyway.
Anyone out there in MeFi land know how to get around this? Can I have something in writing to the effect that I accept the home with just the slab concrete floors?
Who is the controlling party here? Some agency? Inspector? Other?
Anyone have any similar experiences?
OK, here's the deal. I can have wood floors installed at a much better price AFTER closing than by having the builder install them. The only thing is, the builder says they have to at least install carpet (which is already included in the price) or they can't get a "certificate of occupancy", which will prevent us closing on it.
I just hate to have the builder install something that I will end up tearing out the very next day anyway.
Anyone out there in MeFi land know how to get around this? Can I have something in writing to the effect that I accept the home with just the slab concrete floors?
Who is the controlling party here? Some agency? Inspector? Other?
Anyone have any similar experiences?
Plus, suppose you slip and crack your head and decide to sue? This is the kind of thing the builder is worried about. It could give two shits about wasted carpet.
posted by deadfather at 2:20 PM on July 12, 2006
posted by deadfather at 2:20 PM on July 12, 2006
It's not a builder thing - it's a mortgage company thing.
The mortgage company won't close without a COO, and the builder can't get a COO from the city/county without it complete - floors and all.
Normally the deduction for not having carpet is in the couple hundreds of dollars.
Maybe find out if a concrete stain counts? Stain might be cheaper.
posted by jimmy0x52 at 2:21 PM on July 12, 2006
The mortgage company won't close without a COO, and the builder can't get a COO from the city/county without it complete - floors and all.
Normally the deduction for not having carpet is in the couple hundreds of dollars.
Maybe find out if a concrete stain counts? Stain might be cheaper.
posted by jimmy0x52 at 2:21 PM on July 12, 2006
Also - typically in most new home contracts there's verbage to the effect of 'if you delay closing for any reason, we'll charge you X dollars per day'
If they're really pushing back at you on this - don't let it delay your closing or it could cost way more.
posted by jimmy0x52 at 2:22 PM on July 12, 2006
If they're really pushing back at you on this - don't let it delay your closing or it could cost way more.
posted by jimmy0x52 at 2:22 PM on July 12, 2006
I think it is actually a builder thing -- the house has to be inspected prior to occupancy (at least in my experience), and the city or county inspector has to make sure that the end result matched the building plans as laid out in the permit. (They don't care about what color your walls are or whether there's carpet on the floor, but they may very well care if a floor isn't installed when there's a floor on the house plans.) Maybe call the building department for more info?
posted by Gator at 2:37 PM on July 12, 2006
posted by Gator at 2:37 PM on July 12, 2006
It's not really a mortgage company thing. I doubt a big builder would do it even if you were paying cash.
posted by deadfather at 2:42 PM on July 12, 2006
posted by deadfather at 2:42 PM on July 12, 2006
uh, it's probably both a builder thing and a certificate of occupancy thing. most communities wouldn't let you sell a new home without a floor--hence the occupancy permit.
however, having been in the wood floor business, i am skeptical of one thing: it is much easier and cheaper to install a wood floor in a home under construction then it is once the home has been completed. it's also acceptable for your selected flooring vendor to go in during the construction phase and do the work. unless there is something else going on here--ie your flooring source isn't a professional one, for example--the builder shouldn't be telling you that *he* has to supply the carpet, etc.
i'd push your builder on this. builders and new homeowners subcontract out stuff all the time. why isn't the builder allowing your flooring people in?
posted by lester at 2:46 PM on July 12, 2006
however, having been in the wood floor business, i am skeptical of one thing: it is much easier and cheaper to install a wood floor in a home under construction then it is once the home has been completed. it's also acceptable for your selected flooring vendor to go in during the construction phase and do the work. unless there is something else going on here--ie your flooring source isn't a professional one, for example--the builder shouldn't be telling you that *he* has to supply the carpet, etc.
i'd push your builder on this. builders and new homeowners subcontract out stuff all the time. why isn't the builder allowing your flooring people in?
posted by lester at 2:46 PM on July 12, 2006
also call and ask the building department that is issuing permits and ask them about this.
posted by lester at 2:48 PM on July 12, 2006
posted by lester at 2:48 PM on July 12, 2006
it is much easier and cheaper to install a wood floor in a home under construction then it is once the home has been completed. it's also acceptable for your selected flooring vendor to go in during the construction phase and do the work
Or - say - the builder includes verbage in the contract that says you may not have any input or decision in the construction of the home before you take the keys.
You put down ernest money but it's still theirs until you give them all the money.
We just did this nov 2004-aug '05
posted by jimmy0x52 at 2:49 PM on July 12, 2006
Or - say - the builder includes verbage in the contract that says you may not have any input or decision in the construction of the home before you take the keys.
You put down ernest money but it's still theirs until you give them all the money.
We just did this nov 2004-aug '05
posted by jimmy0x52 at 2:49 PM on July 12, 2006
i'd push your builder on this. builders and new homeowners subcontract out stuff all the time. why isn't the builder allowing your flooring people in?
It's quite likely the builder has already signed a contract with a subcontractor to have the carpeting installed. Is this a tract house or a custom we're talking about?
posted by buggzzee23 at 2:58 PM on July 12, 2006
It's quite likely the builder has already signed a contract with a subcontractor to have the carpeting installed. Is this a tract house or a custom we're talking about?
posted by buggzzee23 at 2:58 PM on July 12, 2006
jimmy, that may be the case. but in most of the circumstances, the builder will assign the buyer a 'flooring allowance', which is then spent at the flooring company selected by the vendor. if you buy the house, you generally can do things like choose the color of the carpet or stain on the wood.
the flooring company, obviously, will try to get people to upgrade their choices. in the op's case, it also may be possible to negotiate this with the flooring company directly. they could take the hit on the carpet, yet still have the selected wood vendor install the floor.
i would be really surprised if there was a contract stipulating no input by the buyer. i could see one limiting vendor choices, but would be surprised if this item couldn't be negotiated.
posted by lester at 3:03 PM on July 12, 2006
the flooring company, obviously, will try to get people to upgrade their choices. in the op's case, it also may be possible to negotiate this with the flooring company directly. they could take the hit on the carpet, yet still have the selected wood vendor install the floor.
i would be really surprised if there was a contract stipulating no input by the buyer. i could see one limiting vendor choices, but would be surprised if this item couldn't be negotiated.
posted by lester at 3:03 PM on July 12, 2006
Definitely investigate. In my county in Colorado, you only need a working kitchen sink, a working bathroom, a functioning heating and water system, final electric, and code-standard railings/stairs to get your certificate of occupancy. I'm betting the builder has a subcontractor he doesn't want to let down.
posted by mochapickle at 3:08 PM on July 12, 2006
posted by mochapickle at 3:08 PM on July 12, 2006
This company will do it, as long as you live in New Mexico or Texas.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 3:11 PM on July 12, 2006
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 3:11 PM on July 12, 2006
The certificate of occupancy is issued by your local government organization, "the building inspector."
Depending on your situation, you may have different options. Is this a custom house you've hired a contractor to build for you? If so, you shouldn't have any trouble getting your contractor to work with you.
But since you're asking, I'm guessing that you're buying a builder's/developer's/contractor's spec house, so that the house is belongs to him right now, and you've asked a banker to loan you the money to buy that house. And since it's new construction, the bank won't loan you the money without seeing the inspecting agency's certificate of occupancy. Assuming that:
1. Call the building inspector to see what he'll allow. Sometimes these guys are completely reasonable people. Sometimes they're completely inflexible bureaucrats.
2. Learn if your local code requires a finished floor for certificate of occupancy - building inspectors are notorious for demanding something not actually required by code.
3. Ask your contractor to hire your flooring guys. If your general contractor is legit, he'll need to see any licenses, worker's comp, and general liability insurance for this new sub. And he'll need to mark up the cost to cover his time managing them and to cover the hardwood installation's impact on the rest of the job (hardwood or carpet will affect a lot of the finish carpentry - baseboards, doors, cabinets, etc. - in both scheduling and installation) And as noted above, your builder/contractor may have already signed a contract with his carpet sub and/or finish carpenter.
4. Go with the carpet, and when you rip it out for the hardwood install, see if your local Goodwill or Habitat for Humanity can use it. Around here they take all kinds of building materials, and you can generally get a charitable donation deduction for the value.
On the finish carpentry again, the floor really does make a difference when and how it's installed. For a carpet floor, all the doors, baseboards, balustrades can go in before the carpet. With hardwood, they should go in after. It's a significant difference and will change how your contractor schedules his subs. Change orders are rarely as easy as they seem.
Finally, what's covered in the super awesome price you got on the hardwood floor? Did they quote you a new construction install price? Is removal and re-installation of finish work covered if it turns out to be essentially a remodel job? The fact that you can hire someone cheaper that your contractor can might should worry you. Are they insured - liability and workers comp? Licensed and bonded? Pay their guys a living wage? Hire non-thugs you'd trust to be in your house?
Sorry, the last bit's a little more than you asked for, but something I'd suggest you consider. Good luck.
posted by lost_cause at 5:38 PM on July 12, 2006
Depending on your situation, you may have different options. Is this a custom house you've hired a contractor to build for you? If so, you shouldn't have any trouble getting your contractor to work with you.
But since you're asking, I'm guessing that you're buying a builder's/developer's/contractor's spec house, so that the house is belongs to him right now, and you've asked a banker to loan you the money to buy that house. And since it's new construction, the bank won't loan you the money without seeing the inspecting agency's certificate of occupancy. Assuming that:
1. Call the building inspector to see what he'll allow. Sometimes these guys are completely reasonable people. Sometimes they're completely inflexible bureaucrats.
2. Learn if your local code requires a finished floor for certificate of occupancy - building inspectors are notorious for demanding something not actually required by code.
3. Ask your contractor to hire your flooring guys. If your general contractor is legit, he'll need to see any licenses, worker's comp, and general liability insurance for this new sub. And he'll need to mark up the cost to cover his time managing them and to cover the hardwood installation's impact on the rest of the job (hardwood or carpet will affect a lot of the finish carpentry - baseboards, doors, cabinets, etc. - in both scheduling and installation) And as noted above, your builder/contractor may have already signed a contract with his carpet sub and/or finish carpenter.
4. Go with the carpet, and when you rip it out for the hardwood install, see if your local Goodwill or Habitat for Humanity can use it. Around here they take all kinds of building materials, and you can generally get a charitable donation deduction for the value.
On the finish carpentry again, the floor really does make a difference when and how it's installed. For a carpet floor, all the doors, baseboards, balustrades can go in before the carpet. With hardwood, they should go in after. It's a significant difference and will change how your contractor schedules his subs. Change orders are rarely as easy as they seem.
Finally, what's covered in the super awesome price you got on the hardwood floor? Did they quote you a new construction install price? Is removal and re-installation of finish work covered if it turns out to be essentially a remodel job? The fact that you can hire someone cheaper that your contractor can might should worry you. Are they insured - liability and workers comp? Licensed and bonded? Pay their guys a living wage? Hire non-thugs you'd trust to be in your house?
Sorry, the last bit's a little more than you asked for, but something I'd suggest you consider. Good luck.
posted by lost_cause at 5:38 PM on July 12, 2006
Some counties have specific rules that must be followed, even if you have other plans. It may be possible that your state/county does require some sort of floor covering over the subflooring.
Our house had a deck built onto the back through a set of french doors. The county would not allow us the CoO until there were a set of steps made from brick or concrete at that door. Rather than remove the deck and build them at the door and replace teh deck, the builder (much to our disapproval) built them at the end of the deck. So now we have a set of brick steps roughly 10 foot from our back door.
posted by aristan at 5:38 PM on July 12, 2006
Our house had a deck built onto the back through a set of french doors. The county would not allow us the CoO until there were a set of steps made from brick or concrete at that door. Rather than remove the deck and build them at the door and replace teh deck, the builder (much to our disapproval) built them at the end of the deck. So now we have a set of brick steps roughly 10 foot from our back door.
posted by aristan at 5:38 PM on July 12, 2006
See if the builder will agree to not staple down the carpet. I understand that its not too unusual, and will certainly make removing it easier
posted by Davidicus at 5:46 PM on July 12, 2006
posted by Davidicus at 5:46 PM on July 12, 2006
I'd be leery about the CoO thing. When we were in the planning stages for the addition on our house we seriously considered leaving a few rooms without floor covering so that we could get more square footage for our budget and finish later.
The contractor suggested just leaving it plywood or painting it.
In my state, MA, this is perfectly fine for occupancy (a bit spartan) as well as leaving off all drywall as long as there are outlets and light fixtures. I'd check with your planning office because "no floor covering = no occupancy" sounds really fishy to me.
posted by plinth at 5:20 AM on July 13, 2006
The contractor suggested just leaving it plywood or painting it.
In my state, MA, this is perfectly fine for occupancy (a bit spartan) as well as leaving off all drywall as long as there are outlets and light fixtures. I'd check with your planning office because "no floor covering = no occupancy" sounds really fishy to me.
posted by plinth at 5:20 AM on July 13, 2006
Also if you end up having to have floor coverings get them to lay a cheap vinyl. It'll be cheaper than carpet and you can lay the hardwood right over top.
posted by Mitheral at 7:19 AM on July 13, 2006
posted by Mitheral at 7:19 AM on July 13, 2006
i think lost cause has got the best answer here. pay special attention to his last paragraph. i wondered the same thing.
posted by lester at 8:04 AM on July 13, 2006
posted by lester at 8:04 AM on July 13, 2006
i would be really surprised if there was a contract stipulating no input by the buyer. i could see one limiting vendor choices, but would be surprised if this item couldn't be negotiated.
I'm stating it as fact, I'm not making this up.
My contract HAD THIS IN IT.
posted by jimmy0x52 at 11:13 AM on July 13, 2006
I'm stating it as fact, I'm not making this up.
My contract HAD THIS IN IT.
posted by jimmy0x52 at 11:13 AM on July 13, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by deadfather at 2:18 PM on July 12, 2006