What is the best way to workout using weights?
July 10, 2006 6:24 AM Subscribe
Help me understand newer trends in muscle development with weights.
OK, so I have been working out using weights off and on for numerous years since I was a teen. In the past I had always been told that you need to work the muscle to (near) exhaustion, as that is what causes growth - well, that and increasing the weight you lift every time if possible.
However, some recent articles I read tells me of a new trend; that of only doing one exercise/session/group and going heavier. For example, rather than doing 5 sets bench press (to say 200#) and then later coming back to the pec deck to fully exhaust the chest, the article says to simply do benches to five sets but try to go to 205#. Then you move on to the next group.
The theory is that when doing the pec deck, you don't actually stimulate growth as the weight will most likely not be heavy enough. I like the idea of streamlining my workouts, but why do workouts if they don't *work*?
So, looking for knowledgable responses on this topic. FWIW, I am a middle age ectomorphic guy and I do try to go to greater weights every time by keeping a logbook.
OK, so I have been working out using weights off and on for numerous years since I was a teen. In the past I had always been told that you need to work the muscle to (near) exhaustion, as that is what causes growth - well, that and increasing the weight you lift every time if possible.
However, some recent articles I read tells me of a new trend; that of only doing one exercise/session/group and going heavier. For example, rather than doing 5 sets bench press (to say 200#) and then later coming back to the pec deck to fully exhaust the chest, the article says to simply do benches to five sets but try to go to 205#. Then you move on to the next group.
The theory is that when doing the pec deck, you don't actually stimulate growth as the weight will most likely not be heavy enough. I like the idea of streamlining my workouts, but why do workouts if they don't *work*?
So, looking for knowledgable responses on this topic. FWIW, I am a middle age ectomorphic guy and I do try to go to greater weights every time by keeping a logbook.
Meant to also add it also depends on what's going on in the kitchen for your results. If you've been lifting weights regularly for a while without results you probably need to either change your workout plan or change your dietary habits.
posted by ao4047 at 6:29 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by ao4047 at 6:29 AM on July 10, 2006
I have creds, and an ebook and website. See my profile.
Every body is different, but scientific studies state show hypertrophy is best triggered in 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps. The magic number is 10, and if you can execute 12 perfect reps it's time to move up in weight.
Also use the mind-muscle connection. Focus on the muscle you're working, and contract it hard at the top of the movement. You gotta squeeze that muscle.
You need to eat alot, around the clock, and I strongly recommend supplimenting with protein powder and creatine, before and after your workout, as well as other times in the day, everyday. Don't cycle it. Diet-wise, always think in terms of amino acids.
I could go on and on, but I'll email you my ebook (what's done anyway) for no charge if you want it.
posted by rinkjustice at 6:38 AM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Every body is different, but scientific studies state show hypertrophy is best triggered in 3-4 sets of 8-12 reps. The magic number is 10, and if you can execute 12 perfect reps it's time to move up in weight.
Also use the mind-muscle connection. Focus on the muscle you're working, and contract it hard at the top of the movement. You gotta squeeze that muscle.
You need to eat alot, around the clock, and I strongly recommend supplimenting with protein powder and creatine, before and after your workout, as well as other times in the day, everyday. Don't cycle it. Diet-wise, always think in terms of amino acids.
I could go on and on, but I'll email you my ebook (what's done anyway) for no charge if you want it.
posted by rinkjustice at 6:38 AM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Let me expound on my last post: The creds I'm referring to to is I've been to school for fitness theory and personal training, and I'm an avid weightlifter (but not bodybuilding as of the last year). The protein powder I'm referring to is whey (you may have already known this) and when I say "don't cycle it", I'm just saying you shouldn't stop supplimenting creatine for at least 3 months, prefferably 6.
posted by rinkjustice at 6:58 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by rinkjustice at 6:58 AM on July 10, 2006
There is some convincing literature that states that most of the gains in strength occur during your first set, indicating that time spent on second sets or third sets might be better used doing another exercise. ExRx has a good precis of the relevant thinking. My understanding is that this is one set to failure. In general ExRx has a no-bullshit myth-busting approach to weight training that I find refreshing. (It's also free of the black background that seems to be de riguer for macho weght lifting sites on the web.)
I've also seen some recent stuff suggesting that ending your warm-up set with one rep close to your one-rep max and then going on to do your sets may encourage more strength development. It's a hard thing to google though, since I mostly seem to be getting one-rep max calculators.
posted by OmieWise at 7:05 AM on July 10, 2006
I've also seen some recent stuff suggesting that ending your warm-up set with one rep close to your one-rep max and then going on to do your sets may encourage more strength development. It's a hard thing to google though, since I mostly seem to be getting one-rep max calculators.
posted by OmieWise at 7:05 AM on July 10, 2006
have a read around the hypertrophy forums.
and more importantly get a good diet! i worked out for ages on a poor diet and didnt see much result at all. soon as i got my diet together the results were fantastic.
posted by moochoo at 7:27 AM on July 10, 2006
and more importantly get a good diet! i worked out for ages on a poor diet and didnt see much result at all. soon as i got my diet together the results were fantastic.
posted by moochoo at 7:27 AM on July 10, 2006
Response by poster: Thanks to all who posted. As usual, great answers.
ao4047: I actually do both. I lift two or three times per week, and do cardio (running) on off days. I try to lift as heavy as possible during weight days, and try to keep my running minimal - but it is still important.
OmieWise: Thanks, I have been using ExRx and find it indispensible.
Rinkjustice: Thank you. These are the traditional type of workouts I have been using. I am not complaining about my gains, but always striving for more efficiency in the workout timeline. I find my life (like everyone else) to be time constrained. You are exactly correct, and I have been working on improving my diet. My thought is that with a slowing metabolism, there may be a better way to see gains. What worked for me at 30 may not work for me at 50. That is one of the reasons behind this post. I do supp with protein, but I am concerned about Creatine.
moochoo: My new improved diet is five meals a day and I do try to eat very carefully. Thanks for the hypertrophy forums link! I'll have a read!
posted by fox_terrier_guy at 8:40 AM on July 10, 2006
ao4047: I actually do both. I lift two or three times per week, and do cardio (running) on off days. I try to lift as heavy as possible during weight days, and try to keep my running minimal - but it is still important.
OmieWise: Thanks, I have been using ExRx and find it indispensible.
Rinkjustice: Thank you. These are the traditional type of workouts I have been using. I am not complaining about my gains, but always striving for more efficiency in the workout timeline. I find my life (like everyone else) to be time constrained. You are exactly correct, and I have been working on improving my diet. My thought is that with a slowing metabolism, there may be a better way to see gains. What worked for me at 30 may not work for me at 50. That is one of the reasons behind this post. I do supp with protein, but I am concerned about Creatine.
moochoo: My new improved diet is five meals a day and I do try to eat very carefully. Thanks for the hypertrophy forums link! I'll have a read!
posted by fox_terrier_guy at 8:40 AM on July 10, 2006
It all really depends on what you are training for and what your goals are. The science area is very interesting to watch, and I second the HST forums link for that, but the foundations of lifting remains the same: increase what you lift, eat right, and you'll get stronger and bigger. Thats the main thing.
Also, the type of training you are describing is nothing new - basic routines with one or two movements per muscle group are very old. Magazines try to act as if their routine is new to sell copies, but in lifting routines, there is really nothing new :). Just more science to tell us why the old things work.
As far as time saving goes: generally, shorter, more frequent workouts are better then longer, less frequent. Get equipment for home, you don't need much, it can save on gym travel time. Focus on compound movements, don't waste time on isolation crap unless you are competing.
Also, re: creatine - its very safe and will help But if you don't want to take it, don't sweat it. Ppl have been getting ripped/big/strong long before any supplements appeared.
Good luck!
posted by rsanheim at 9:34 AM on July 10, 2006
Also, the type of training you are describing is nothing new - basic routines with one or two movements per muscle group are very old. Magazines try to act as if their routine is new to sell copies, but in lifting routines, there is really nothing new :). Just more science to tell us why the old things work.
As far as time saving goes: generally, shorter, more frequent workouts are better then longer, less frequent. Get equipment for home, you don't need much, it can save on gym travel time. Focus on compound movements, don't waste time on isolation crap unless you are competing.
Also, re: creatine - its very safe and will help But if you don't want to take it, don't sweat it. Ppl have been getting ripped/big/strong long before any supplements appeared.
Good luck!
posted by rsanheim at 9:34 AM on July 10, 2006
t-nation.com, to clear out the dogma repeated upthread.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 2:11 PM on July 10, 2006
posted by Mr. Gunn at 2:11 PM on July 10, 2006
Wow, funny you bring up t-mag and dogma. As a long time member of many online boards, t-mag most definitely has its share of dogma, not to mention over-priced products with a ton of psuedo-science behind them. Don't get me wrong, there are some great articles there - authors like Dave Tate, Christian Thibaudeau, Lyle McDonald, Eric Cressey, Simmons, etc. Some of the authors suck (TC), and the discussion and products are a very mixed bad. Not to mention the sophomoric Maxim-like tone.
I would say read the above mentioned HST, WannaBeBig.com, or bodyrecomposition.com articles before exploring t-mag.
posted by rsanheim at 8:48 PM on July 10, 2006
I would say read the above mentioned HST, WannaBeBig.com, or bodyrecomposition.com articles before exploring t-mag.
posted by rsanheim at 8:48 PM on July 10, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ao4047 at 6:28 AM on July 10, 2006