Unicode doesn't have a character for the squealing of a saxophone
July 3, 2006 9:14 AM Subscribe
Help me identify a sub-genre of Jazz. When I was abroad, I stopped by a cafe one night to find a five-piece jazz band playing some fantastic music. The only problem is that I have no idea what to call it, and so no idea where to find it at home.
As near as I can tell, it seems to be typified by a bit of wailing saxophones, and generally picking a theme and just improvising madly away on it, each member (perhaps) soloing one after the other. The music is a little crazy, and generally quite groovy. However, this is a pretty vague description and I freely admit that it probably doesn't help much.
The closest thing that I've been able to find that sounds sort of like what I'm looking for is the fourth track off of the Lost Highway soundtrack--"Red bats with teeth" by Angelo Badalamenti--although it isn't exactly what I'm thinking of, it's pretty close. Similar sort of agressive energy, but perhaps slightly more melodic, and more of a chance for each band member to solo.
Any ideas?
As near as I can tell, it seems to be typified by a bit of wailing saxophones, and generally picking a theme and just improvising madly away on it, each member (perhaps) soloing one after the other. The music is a little crazy, and generally quite groovy. However, this is a pretty vague description and I freely admit that it probably doesn't help much.
The closest thing that I've been able to find that sounds sort of like what I'm looking for is the fourth track off of the Lost Highway soundtrack--"Red bats with teeth" by Angelo Badalamenti--although it isn't exactly what I'm thinking of, it's pretty close. Similar sort of agressive energy, but perhaps slightly more melodic, and more of a chance for each band member to solo.
Any ideas?
You've pretty much described bebop. I wouldn't know where to start recommending specific artists, it's a huge canon, and I'm sure others will chime in soon.
posted by punilux at 9:29 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by punilux at 9:29 AM on July 3, 2006
Sounds like bebop to me too, though it might have been hard bop - the Wikipedia entry on hard bop has a list of artists to get you started.
posted by jack_mo at 9:34 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by jack_mo at 9:34 AM on July 3, 2006
It actually sounds like plain old jazz—what variety of jazz (short of late Coltrane) doesn't involve "picking a theme and just improvising madly away on it, each member (perhaps) soloing one after the other"? You're not giving us much to go on. Can you really not retrieve any information about the venue or the musicians that might help us figure out what you're talking about?
posted by languagehat at 9:49 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by languagehat at 9:49 AM on July 3, 2006
In this vein, I love most projects with Ken Vandermark.
posted by unknowncommand at 10:20 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by unknowncommand at 10:20 AM on July 3, 2006
It sounds like free jazz more than bebop to me. Try Ornette Coleman, as neustile recommended, and see if that sounds right.
posted by danb at 10:46 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by danb at 10:46 AM on July 3, 2006
Based on the Badalamenti track you suggested, v., I think exploring the Soul Jazz and Jazz-Funk side of Hard Bop jack_mo linked to would be a good place to start. Two artists that sprang to mind as I was listening to "Red Bats with Teeth" were Eddie Harris and (later) Stanley Turrentine. The Real Electrifying Eddie Harris has, I think, been recently reissued and might be pretty easy to track down.
Good luck!
posted by LinnTate at 10:47 AM on July 3, 2006
Good luck!
posted by LinnTate at 10:47 AM on July 3, 2006
Get thee some Charlie Parker and earlier John Coltrane. Prepare for your life to change...refer to My Favorite Things for an example of reaching divine heights in music.
posted by toastchee at 11:03 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by toastchee at 11:03 AM on July 3, 2006
Of course, if you're like me and think that the tenor sax is an afront to the cleanliness of the universe, you're not as likely to be enthralled by John Coltrane. (The soprano sax, on the other hand, is the voice of angels.)
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 11:07 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 11:07 AM on July 3, 2006
"Abroad"? That's a bit broad. Japan? Denmark? Argentina? Canada? Which of these?
posted by IndigoJones at 11:16 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by IndigoJones at 11:16 AM on July 3, 2006
Rather than thrashing around trying to guess what you heard, I'm going to suggest that you head out and start hearing some live jazz. The next time you hear something you like, just go up after the set and ask the musicians about it: who their influences are, who they like, etc. Unfortunately, the Jazz Fest finished yesterday, but there are still lots of opportunties to hear jazz around town. Try The Cellar; the owner, saxman Cory Weeds, might even be able to figure out what you heard.
Japan? Denmark? Argentina? Canada?
The U.S.A.?
posted by timeistight at 11:24 AM on July 3, 2006
Japan? Denmark? Argentina? Canada?
The U.S.A.?
posted by timeistight at 11:24 AM on July 3, 2006
I also think it sounds like Bebop, and suggest you check out some Charlie Parker and Cannonball Adderley. Have fun!
posted by teleskiving at 11:26 AM on July 3, 2006
posted by teleskiving at 11:26 AM on July 3, 2006
Bebop era: Dizzy Gillespie, circa '51-53 And follow Dizzy down all his paths to other bebop greats.
Contemporary, and carryin' on:
Arturo Sandoval
Branford Marsalis, especially Crazy People Music
posted by paulsc at 12:50 PM on July 3, 2006
Contemporary, and carryin' on:
Arturo Sandoval
Branford Marsalis, especially Crazy People Music
posted by paulsc at 12:50 PM on July 3, 2006
I also think it sounds like Bebop
I'm truly confused by this. What in the description makes people think of bebop, which (in the technical sense) is pretty much defined by not using obvious chords in working off the tune? Why would the description apply to Bird or Diz any more than to the Hot Five or the Jazz Messengers or any contemporary band?
posted by languagehat at 4:01 PM on July 3, 2006
I'm truly confused by this. What in the description makes people think of bebop, which (in the technical sense) is pretty much defined by not using obvious chords in working off the tune? Why would the description apply to Bird or Diz any more than to the Hot Five or the Jazz Messengers or any contemporary band?
posted by languagehat at 4:01 PM on July 3, 2006
I encourage you to check out John Zorn's acoustic Masada. I saw them play last week and they were stellar. From a recent article: "Zorn's Masada started in 1993 with over a hundred songs, each of which contains a relatively simple, brief melody using a set of Ashkenazi scales. (Masada's music is sometimes erroneously called klezmer, which, despite their harmonic similarities, is a misleading association.)" Here are two samples. They have many albums. I own 23 and I don't even think that's half of them. Should you ever get a chance to witness them live, run to it. It was one of the best performances I've ever seen.
And if squealing saxes are your cup of tea, you may also like David S. Ware or John Lurie's Lounge Lizards.
And if Klezmer is what you're after, I recommend David Krakauer's Klezmer Madness! as they rip it up.
Note that a number of these artists (Krakauer and Ware for sure, as well as some others have mentioned (Coltrane, Vandermark, Sandoval for sure) are available cheap from emusic.com. I also suggest you check out the Thirsty Ear label which is on there as well (Ware's on the label; Matthew Shipp, one of the greatest of contemporary jazz pianists, curates the label). emusic has also written some nice intros to Tzadik (the label Zorn owns and that all of his Masada projects are on), Avant-Garde Jazz, Free Jazz, and Post-Millennial Jazz. If you like Jazz (or, really, love music in general) and like exploring online, emusic is a fantastic place and cheaper than any other legit downloading service I know of.
All tracks meant to be played loud! ;)
posted by dobbs at 4:26 PM on July 3, 2006
And if squealing saxes are your cup of tea, you may also like David S. Ware or John Lurie's Lounge Lizards.
And if Klezmer is what you're after, I recommend David Krakauer's Klezmer Madness! as they rip it up.
Note that a number of these artists (Krakauer and Ware for sure, as well as some others have mentioned (Coltrane, Vandermark, Sandoval for sure) are available cheap from emusic.com. I also suggest you check out the Thirsty Ear label which is on there as well (Ware's on the label; Matthew Shipp, one of the greatest of contemporary jazz pianists, curates the label). emusic has also written some nice intros to Tzadik (the label Zorn owns and that all of his Masada projects are on), Avant-Garde Jazz, Free Jazz, and Post-Millennial Jazz. If you like Jazz (or, really, love music in general) and like exploring online, emusic is a fantastic place and cheaper than any other legit downloading service I know of.
All tracks meant to be played loud! ;)
posted by dobbs at 4:26 PM on July 3, 2006
I'll second Cannonball Adderly. Listen to the album Somethin' Else and Mercy, Mercy, Mercy. For someone more contemporary, check out Francesco Cafiso.
posted by twirlypen at 6:04 PM on July 3, 2006
posted by twirlypen at 6:04 PM on July 3, 2006
Are we just listing sax players now? How about Maceo Parker? I saw Fathead Newman last fall; he's cool. Sidnet Bechet played Soprano sometimes, why not him?
posted by timeistight at 6:37 PM on July 3, 2006
posted by timeistight at 6:37 PM on July 3, 2006
"I'm truly confused by this. ..."
posted by languagehat at 7:01 PM EST on July 3
I think languagehat has a point here. Based on the 10 second sample of "Red bats with teeth" I listened to over on last.fm (God I hate "samples"), the style appears to be more a cool, almost "smooth jazz" (yech!) sax lead, with a heavy drum track. A lot more Boney James than Bird. Still, that's a 10 second underwhelming.
It's probably largely aspirational, rather than descriptive, but what Badalamenti says about his music is "My (musical) world is a little bit dark... a little bit off-center. I think of it as tragically beautiful. That is how I would describe what I love best: tragically beautiful."
No doubt, at Birdland, on a good night, the notes jumped out of the horns from Dizzy to Bird to whoever else was up like swarms of honeybees riding a clovered breeze. But still, there is something "tragically beautiful" about all that bop, all that energy, and where it went, and what it cost the guys who blew it.
We aren't steering the kid entirely wrong.
posted by paulsc at 7:23 PM on July 3, 2006
posted by languagehat at 7:01 PM EST on July 3
I think languagehat has a point here. Based on the 10 second sample of "Red bats with teeth" I listened to over on last.fm (God I hate "samples"), the style appears to be more a cool, almost "smooth jazz" (yech!) sax lead, with a heavy drum track. A lot more Boney James than Bird. Still, that's a 10 second underwhelming.
It's probably largely aspirational, rather than descriptive, but what Badalamenti says about his music is "My (musical) world is a little bit dark... a little bit off-center. I think of it as tragically beautiful. That is how I would describe what I love best: tragically beautiful."
No doubt, at Birdland, on a good night, the notes jumped out of the horns from Dizzy to Bird to whoever else was up like swarms of honeybees riding a clovered breeze. But still, there is something "tragically beautiful" about all that bop, all that energy, and where it went, and what it cost the guys who blew it.
We aren't steering the kid entirely wrong.
posted by paulsc at 7:23 PM on July 3, 2006
Response by poster: Perhaps I should clarify. It isn't the saxophone in particular, but more the style; it just seems when I hear this music in my head, it tends to feature saxophones.
drobot writes "Did it sound like this?"
Not really, no. The stuff I heard was more structured and melodic, though it did have some of the frenetic energy that piece did...
Anyhow, as to the abroad comment, it was in Žilina, Slovakia. Honestly, I can't imagine that the style is native to Slovakia, so I really didn't think it was too important where abroad I was.
I've gone through a few (though not all) of the links above, and I have to admit, the closest (and still not that close, although it's hard to tell from the sample length) was the soul-jazz. But as I said in the question, there's a pretty hefty bit of aggression to the music that none of what I've heard yet seems to find.
posted by vernondalhart at 7:41 PM on July 3, 2006
drobot writes "Did it sound like this?"
Not really, no. The stuff I heard was more structured and melodic, though it did have some of the frenetic energy that piece did...
Anyhow, as to the abroad comment, it was in Žilina, Slovakia. Honestly, I can't imagine that the style is native to Slovakia, so I really didn't think it was too important where abroad I was.
I've gone through a few (though not all) of the links above, and I have to admit, the closest (and still not that close, although it's hard to tell from the sample length) was the soul-jazz. But as I said in the question, there's a pretty hefty bit of aggression to the music that none of what I've heard yet seems to find.
posted by vernondalhart at 7:41 PM on July 3, 2006
Response by poster: paulsc writes "I think languagehat has a point here. Based on the 10 second sample of 'Red bats with teeth' I listened to over on last.fm (God I hate 'samples'), the style appears to be more a cool, almost 'smooth jazz' (yech!) sax lead, with a heavy drum track. A lot more Boney James than Bird. Still, that's a 10 second underwhelming.
Yeah, the track gets a lot more exciting towards the end of it.
posted by vernondalhart at 7:44 PM on July 3, 2006
Yeah, the track gets a lot more exciting towards the end of it.
posted by vernondalhart at 7:44 PM on July 3, 2006
vernondalhart, did you check out the Masada? I thought it was pretty much exactly what you described... or is that too episodic? They have more "flowing" tracks, for lack of a good word to describe it.
posted by dobbs at 8:18 PM on July 3, 2006
posted by dobbs at 8:18 PM on July 3, 2006
Response by poster: I did, yeah... and the stuff I heard was far more structured melodically... well, certainly than the second sample. The first... well, maybe. There are some similarities, I guess, but this just didn't seem to have as much groove, for lack of a better word.
posted by vernondalhart at 9:48 PM on July 3, 2006
posted by vernondalhart at 9:48 PM on July 3, 2006
Response by poster: Yeah, that's a lot closer.
As much as anything, my reasons for not being quite sure is... well, I've heard one band. And it was live, which I imagine makes a huge difference; but I can sort of see some of the elements that I'm looking for in that last song.
I think what I also might do is follow timeistight's suggestion and check out some of the local Jazz clubs since, after all, what I'm looking for is live jazz, really.
So timeistight (or anyone else from Vancouver)--where are the best Jazz clubs here? I know of the Cellar (it's close to where I live), but what else is there?
posted by vernondalhart at 10:42 PM on July 3, 2006
As much as anything, my reasons for not being quite sure is... well, I've heard one band. And it was live, which I imagine makes a huge difference; but I can sort of see some of the elements that I'm looking for in that last song.
I think what I also might do is follow timeistight's suggestion and check out some of the local Jazz clubs since, after all, what I'm looking for is live jazz, really.
So timeistight (or anyone else from Vancouver)--where are the best Jazz clubs here? I know of the Cellar (it's close to where I live), but what else is there?
posted by vernondalhart at 10:42 PM on July 3, 2006
I'm not the best person to answer this, since, like the song says, I don't get around much anymore, but I'd suggest you keep an eye on http://vancouverjazz.com/ and http://www.coastaljazz.ca/ for upcoming events around town.
You're at UBC, right? There must be a fair amount of jazz activety there, isn't there? Or are all you kids too busy with the hipping and hopping and rapping and raving?
posted by timeistight at 9:14 AM on July 4, 2006
You're at UBC, right? There must be a fair amount of jazz activety there, isn't there? Or are all you kids too busy with the hipping and hopping and rapping and raving?
posted by timeistight at 9:14 AM on July 4, 2006
Response by poster: There might be a bunch of stuff around here, but I'm not really sure. I haven't been paying as much attention to the live music scene as I would like.
posted by vernondalhart at 3:12 PM on July 4, 2006
posted by vernondalhart at 3:12 PM on July 4, 2006
Don't listen to the others...it's Coltrane you want. :-)
posted by toastchee at 11:00 AM on July 5, 2006
posted by toastchee at 11:00 AM on July 5, 2006
Japan? Denmark? Argentina? Canada?
The U.S.A.?
I accept the rebuke. I failed to check out the questioner's point of origin.
In my defense, however, I would argue that, when discussing jazz in this context, the US is implicitly exempt from the word abroad.
"I heard this great flamenco player when I was abroad!"
"Oh yeah? Where were you?"
"Spain."
posted by IndigoJones at 5:56 AM on July 14, 2006
The U.S.A.?
I accept the rebuke. I failed to check out the questioner's point of origin.
In my defense, however, I would argue that, when discussing jazz in this context, the US is implicitly exempt from the word abroad.
"I heard this great flamenco player when I was abroad!"
"Oh yeah? Where were you?"
"Spain."
posted by IndigoJones at 5:56 AM on July 14, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by rainbaby at 9:20 AM on July 3, 2006