My father is ruining his family and himself.
June 5, 2006 9:04 PM Subscribe
How do you deal with a quarter-life crisis while dealing with an out-of-his-mind, manipulative, controlling father, who has an alcohol problem to boot?
Warning: This is VERY long, train-of-thought babble, but I am desperate and just needed to type, so if you are bored, please read on.
For some context, it is not only the grueling, self-doubting years of grad school that have contributed to my ungodly state of mind, but also, invariably, family problems. Namely, my father has been losing his mind for many years, taking many others selfishly along for the ride. My father is what I would call a "functioning" alcoholic. That is, he works his ass off and does well for himself, but ruins his own life and the lives of those around him.
For many years now, my father has been a control freak, a dominating man who can do no wrong, a highly defensive, super-sensitive, manipulative crazy person. Yet he is one who is rational in his day job (at least until about the early evening hits, when he starts drinking at work).
To boot, he does really shitty things, like for years he has engaged in absurd conversation to his children and wife about his impending death. He does so to feel self-worth; he wants to see how badly we will miss him and to see if we in fact "realize" all he's done for us. He is very manipulative in an excruciatingly selfish way. Only, he believes he is the most selfless person in the world, and any challenge to this belief makes you a "traitor," a word he uses often, because he works like a dog, etc., etc. (He and my mother fight a whole fucking lot, I am much like her.) What's really true, though, is that HE'S the root cause of basically every problem this family has.
His alcoholism has turned him into someone with whom I cannot have any excuse of a relationship, and the moment you point it out, he explodes in intimidating anger (not physically violent, but he's one heck of an intimidating guy, verbally speaking). He lashes out and immediately deems you a hateful, awful, evil person. What is worse, he has every other member of my family wrapped around his finger; they are controlled by him. He intimidates them into hearing what he wants to hear. He hears this only because they're scared. They tell him what he wants because they are afraid not only of him, but of losing him, a fact he points out over and over. Further, they feel sad for him; he has this remarkable way of making one feel guilt and sympathy.
I too have these feelings, and often succumb to them, apologizing when I should not have, biting my tongue until it bleeds. I have also spent many years distancing myself from him, to salvage what remains of my sanity. Because of this, I feel I have the foothold to tell him what I f**king think, sometimes. That he's becoming an embarrassment to himself and his family. But I only tell him this because I think he has done so much in his life to be proud of -- that he is seriously jeopardizing his integrity and standing in the community. And also -- he perpetuates a dysfunctional family -- so much so, that it is "normal" to him and the rest of my family. Anything or anyone who challenges the dysfunctional status quo is himself dysfunctional and crazy. (I feel like I am taking f**cking crazy pills sometimes!)
He makes me out to be this evil daughter, and turns everything I say into eliciting more sympathy for himself from our other family members. One example, he comes over to MY house in the middle of the night the other night, banging on my front door -- my dogs going crazy, screaming to my sister about things he thinks I said about him -- while drunk, and while my boyfriend is upstairs, with the sole purpose of demonstrating that everything I said is wrong -- that he is not a drunk and going on and on about what he's done in his life, and what I've "not" done in mine. (Which is ridiculous, because I am the only child he has who has needed no guidance; my siblings, on the other hand, have majorly fucked up many times). Further, he screams so loudly and scarily, I am literally mortified and, concurrently, frightened at the prospect that "this is my father, this is what he is and what he's become!" Two days later, my mother brings up the situation, and upon hearing this, he flat out denies ever having done it (which is ABSURD, if you were there), immediately phones my sister and in essence demands to hear that he did not do it, to which my sister understandingly obliges. She answered that it NEVER happened. That's right -- that is how twisted the entire situation is. That is how far he has weaved his dominion over peoples' lives. This is because my dad intimidates people into telling him what he wants to hear, and then believes that it is actually true. This accounts for only, like, a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the amount and types of conduct in which my father engages.
He hasn't talked to me in days, has cursed me to hell, and is "no longer my father." I have ignored this, because the situations I have recounted have recurred so many times in my life -- that it is almost nauseating to apologize. By the way, he asks family members daily when I am going to apologize to him, and that soon he'll be dead anyways. I am really quite unsure what I would be apologizing for. Not to mention that I would be apologizing to a man who really believes that if he says he played no part in a psychopathic hour-long fiasco just the night before, his reaction to hearing someone challenged his behavior and demeanor, it is actually true. This is a man whose last words before leaving that night were, "I am not a drunk," while banging on the wall.
My dad needs a certain modicum of control -- over his life and over people. He cannot be told he has a problem, and he does the most horrible things to his family. The domination, the guilt, the countless fucked up selfish things that I could never enumerate no matter how hard I tried. (He's also sacrificed a whole damn lot - and for that we are all grateful -- yet he is constantly trying to make us realize what he's done and what he is).
The reason I am the only one with the balls to stand up to him, I think, is that I no longer "need" him for anything. The siblings, on the other hand, do need him -- and have needed him throughout their lives for things I have easily been motivated to do myself. He uses this control over them to obtain whatever he wants -- to validate his claims of his own sanity and to what he deems my pretentiousness (which, in normal-people-world, is rationality).
He lives in world he has created for himself and he believes all of these lies. I have NO IDEA how to deal with him. I am losing my mind. I feel this utter guilt -- but I feel equal conviction in standing my ground. It's just that, continuing to stand my ground can literally destroy the relationship I have w/my dad -- at a time when not only is he an alcoholic, but he's also got a pretty serious health condition. *And if it wasn't apparent from the posting, I actually do love him.* PLEASE HELP.
Warning: This is VERY long, train-of-thought babble, but I am desperate and just needed to type, so if you are bored, please read on.
For some context, it is not only the grueling, self-doubting years of grad school that have contributed to my ungodly state of mind, but also, invariably, family problems. Namely, my father has been losing his mind for many years, taking many others selfishly along for the ride. My father is what I would call a "functioning" alcoholic. That is, he works his ass off and does well for himself, but ruins his own life and the lives of those around him.
For many years now, my father has been a control freak, a dominating man who can do no wrong, a highly defensive, super-sensitive, manipulative crazy person. Yet he is one who is rational in his day job (at least until about the early evening hits, when he starts drinking at work).
To boot, he does really shitty things, like for years he has engaged in absurd conversation to his children and wife about his impending death. He does so to feel self-worth; he wants to see how badly we will miss him and to see if we in fact "realize" all he's done for us. He is very manipulative in an excruciatingly selfish way. Only, he believes he is the most selfless person in the world, and any challenge to this belief makes you a "traitor," a word he uses often, because he works like a dog, etc., etc. (He and my mother fight a whole fucking lot, I am much like her.) What's really true, though, is that HE'S the root cause of basically every problem this family has.
His alcoholism has turned him into someone with whom I cannot have any excuse of a relationship, and the moment you point it out, he explodes in intimidating anger (not physically violent, but he's one heck of an intimidating guy, verbally speaking). He lashes out and immediately deems you a hateful, awful, evil person. What is worse, he has every other member of my family wrapped around his finger; they are controlled by him. He intimidates them into hearing what he wants to hear. He hears this only because they're scared. They tell him what he wants because they are afraid not only of him, but of losing him, a fact he points out over and over. Further, they feel sad for him; he has this remarkable way of making one feel guilt and sympathy.
I too have these feelings, and often succumb to them, apologizing when I should not have, biting my tongue until it bleeds. I have also spent many years distancing myself from him, to salvage what remains of my sanity. Because of this, I feel I have the foothold to tell him what I f**king think, sometimes. That he's becoming an embarrassment to himself and his family. But I only tell him this because I think he has done so much in his life to be proud of -- that he is seriously jeopardizing his integrity and standing in the community. And also -- he perpetuates a dysfunctional family -- so much so, that it is "normal" to him and the rest of my family. Anything or anyone who challenges the dysfunctional status quo is himself dysfunctional and crazy. (I feel like I am taking f**cking crazy pills sometimes!)
He makes me out to be this evil daughter, and turns everything I say into eliciting more sympathy for himself from our other family members. One example, he comes over to MY house in the middle of the night the other night, banging on my front door -- my dogs going crazy, screaming to my sister about things he thinks I said about him -- while drunk, and while my boyfriend is upstairs, with the sole purpose of demonstrating that everything I said is wrong -- that he is not a drunk and going on and on about what he's done in his life, and what I've "not" done in mine. (Which is ridiculous, because I am the only child he has who has needed no guidance; my siblings, on the other hand, have majorly fucked up many times). Further, he screams so loudly and scarily, I am literally mortified and, concurrently, frightened at the prospect that "this is my father, this is what he is and what he's become!" Two days later, my mother brings up the situation, and upon hearing this, he flat out denies ever having done it (which is ABSURD, if you were there), immediately phones my sister and in essence demands to hear that he did not do it, to which my sister understandingly obliges. She answered that it NEVER happened. That's right -- that is how twisted the entire situation is. That is how far he has weaved his dominion over peoples' lives. This is because my dad intimidates people into telling him what he wants to hear, and then believes that it is actually true. This accounts for only, like, a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the amount and types of conduct in which my father engages.
He hasn't talked to me in days, has cursed me to hell, and is "no longer my father." I have ignored this, because the situations I have recounted have recurred so many times in my life -- that it is almost nauseating to apologize. By the way, he asks family members daily when I am going to apologize to him, and that soon he'll be dead anyways. I am really quite unsure what I would be apologizing for. Not to mention that I would be apologizing to a man who really believes that if he says he played no part in a psychopathic hour-long fiasco just the night before, his reaction to hearing someone challenged his behavior and demeanor, it is actually true. This is a man whose last words before leaving that night were, "I am not a drunk," while banging on the wall.
My dad needs a certain modicum of control -- over his life and over people. He cannot be told he has a problem, and he does the most horrible things to his family. The domination, the guilt, the countless fucked up selfish things that I could never enumerate no matter how hard I tried. (He's also sacrificed a whole damn lot - and for that we are all grateful -- yet he is constantly trying to make us realize what he's done and what he is).
The reason I am the only one with the balls to stand up to him, I think, is that I no longer "need" him for anything. The siblings, on the other hand, do need him -- and have needed him throughout their lives for things I have easily been motivated to do myself. He uses this control over them to obtain whatever he wants -- to validate his claims of his own sanity and to what he deems my pretentiousness (which, in normal-people-world, is rationality).
He lives in world he has created for himself and he believes all of these lies. I have NO IDEA how to deal with him. I am losing my mind. I feel this utter guilt -- but I feel equal conviction in standing my ground. It's just that, continuing to stand my ground can literally destroy the relationship I have w/my dad -- at a time when not only is he an alcoholic, but he's also got a pretty serious health condition. *And if it wasn't apparent from the posting, I actually do love him.* PLEASE HELP.
OK, so he doesn't own your house right? Step one is to call the police when he is outside. Don't engage him in conversation; don't acknowledge he is here. Just call 911 and report a screaming drunk guy outside of your house who is banging on the front door. There's nothing like a state trooper to disabuse someone of their right to dominate and control the private life of another adult.
More broadly, consider taking his lead and excluding him from your life. It's OK to do this, even if you still love him. There's no guilt here. You have tried being rational, being helpful, initiating contact, and being sweet as pie. It hasn't worked. You can't physically drag him to an AA meeting. He needs to do that on his own. In the meantime, the time off will be good for both of you, and there may yet be a chance to repair things down the road.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:15 PM on June 5, 2006 [1 favorite]
More broadly, consider taking his lead and excluding him from your life. It's OK to do this, even if you still love him. There's no guilt here. You have tried being rational, being helpful, initiating contact, and being sweet as pie. It hasn't worked. You can't physically drag him to an AA meeting. He needs to do that on his own. In the meantime, the time off will be good for both of you, and there may yet be a chance to repair things down the road.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:15 PM on June 5, 2006 [1 favorite]
Okay, you'll be hearing a lot of this, so let me be the first (on preview, no longer the first):
You cannot help someone who does not think he needs help.
I understand that you care about and love your father. I wish there were something you could do to make him realize what he's doing to himself. But you can't. You're not God, and he is the leader of his own life. He won't get help now. Later he may decide to do so, but that will be his decision, and it looks like you've already done all you can to push him in that direction.
In the meantime, he's tearing you apart. Distancing yourself from him is a good thing. Just because he's ruining his own life does not mean that you need to ruin your own to prove you love him.
If you want strangers to give you permission to cut contact completely, you have it. If you don't want to cut contact, that's fine too. But you need to understand that your father is not completely sane. You cannot internalize what he says about you, and you cannot expect that what you do will have any rational bearing on what he believes. I think you know it, but you don't really believe it in your gut.
So, to sum up: Yes, he's crazy. No, you're not a bad person for distancing yourself. No, there's nothing you can do about it. I'm sorry.
Oh, and the other thing everyone else will say: Therapy might help. If you're still in grad school, you might have access to it for free.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 9:19 PM on June 5, 2006
You cannot help someone who does not think he needs help.
I understand that you care about and love your father. I wish there were something you could do to make him realize what he's doing to himself. But you can't. You're not God, and he is the leader of his own life. He won't get help now. Later he may decide to do so, but that will be his decision, and it looks like you've already done all you can to push him in that direction.
In the meantime, he's tearing you apart. Distancing yourself from him is a good thing. Just because he's ruining his own life does not mean that you need to ruin your own to prove you love him.
If you want strangers to give you permission to cut contact completely, you have it. If you don't want to cut contact, that's fine too. But you need to understand that your father is not completely sane. You cannot internalize what he says about you, and you cannot expect that what you do will have any rational bearing on what he believes. I think you know it, but you don't really believe it in your gut.
So, to sum up: Yes, he's crazy. No, you're not a bad person for distancing yourself. No, there's nothing you can do about it. I'm sorry.
Oh, and the other thing everyone else will say: Therapy might help. If you're still in grad school, you might have access to it for free.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 9:19 PM on June 5, 2006
I doubt you'll want to hear this answer but the only way I ultimately dealt with a similarly controlling psychologically abusive mother was to leave the state and never speak to her again. literally. seriously. yep that's right, I fired my mom. when it came down to a choice between her manipulative games and my sanity, my sanity won. I changed careers, phone numbers and email addresses and moved 1,200 miles away.
I haven't spoken to her in ten years. I still love her, always will, and I honestly sympathise with her screwed up situation in having to raise me alone but I can't own or fix her problems. twenty seven years of hearing her rail about what a 'bad daughter' I was and scream abuse and threats at me and I finally had enough.
I wish I could help more. I wish you courage in dealing with this situation. get therapy, it doesn't mean you're crazy, just in need of better advise than the MeFites (however adept) can provide.
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:19 PM on June 5, 2006 [2 favorites]
I haven't spoken to her in ten years. I still love her, always will, and I honestly sympathise with her screwed up situation in having to raise me alone but I can't own or fix her problems. twenty seven years of hearing her rail about what a 'bad daughter' I was and scream abuse and threats at me and I finally had enough.
I wish I could help more. I wish you courage in dealing with this situation. get therapy, it doesn't mean you're crazy, just in need of better advise than the MeFites (however adept) can provide.
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:19 PM on June 5, 2006 [2 favorites]
Find an al-anon meeting and ask for help.
You will meet people who have found their own solutions in similar situations.
If the first one does not work for you, find another. Keep trying until you find people you can relate to.
posted by yetanother at 9:20 PM on June 5, 2006
You will meet people who have found their own solutions in similar situations.
If the first one does not work for you, find another. Keep trying until you find people you can relate to.
posted by yetanother at 9:20 PM on June 5, 2006
Since you don't live with him & you're an adult, I would suggest ACoA as opposed to al-anon, if you go that route. I have seen friends & close relatives benefit immensely from attending ACOA meetings. None of them are believers btw, the whole higher power thing is up to your discretion, you don't need to be a Christian or whathaveyou.
posted by zarah at 9:26 PM on June 5, 2006
posted by zarah at 9:26 PM on June 5, 2006
I have to say, I'm with lonefrontranger on this. I had to do the same with my sister. I want to live life and actually enjoy it, not feed to drama of other people's miserable lives. The best way to deal with so many of these things is to accept your losses and move on. It isn't pleasant, and yes, there's much sadness, but honestly, you can't make other people see the world any other way than they see it. There's a lot of sadness in walking away from a family relation you've had you're whole life, but I have a saying about that.
The word "family" is not a license for abuse.
posted by smallerdemon at 9:31 PM on June 5, 2006
The word "family" is not a license for abuse.
posted by smallerdemon at 9:31 PM on June 5, 2006
Walk away. Distance yourself. Some years down the line, you may meet up again. Don't play that game.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:32 PM on June 5, 2006
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:32 PM on June 5, 2006
Yes, lonefrontranger is totally right. It's time to fire him. I realise now I fired my brother a while back for what, in retrospect, are far less compelling reasons. I've never regretted it. My mother fired him too subsequently. I'm perfectly pleasant to him when the occasion arises, as is she, but he has no leverage on either of us any more.
Re: calling the cops, I think it is fair to give him a warning first. "Shut up and go home or I call the cops". One warning, then call them.
The interesting thing is that the step you take now may actually be the first step in reparing your relationship, although it could take a decade or more, if ever, to come right.
posted by unSane at 9:39 PM on June 5, 2006 [1 favorite]
Re: calling the cops, I think it is fair to give him a warning first. "Shut up and go home or I call the cops". One warning, then call them.
The interesting thing is that the step you take now may actually be the first step in reparing your relationship, although it could take a decade or more, if ever, to come right.
posted by unSane at 9:39 PM on June 5, 2006 [1 favorite]
By the way I second the ACoA recommendation. This book is probably compulsory reading at this point.
posted by unSane at 9:42 PM on June 5, 2006
posted by unSane at 9:42 PM on June 5, 2006
Your dad is my dad except for the coming over to the house stuff. Here are things that helped me
- I mentioned to him at one point that I had stopped drinking because I didn't like what it had done to me. I never drink around him. I don't stay at events where he is drinking to excess (he is a bit of a private drinker so this is not difficult) and I won't stay at dinner with him if he's having more than a drink or two. When I visit him I excuse myself when the wine bottles come out and go do something else. I don't belabor the point, I just don't stick around in what I know is possibly going to be a lousy situation.
- I found the ACoA literature useful to read, I didn't feel that I needed to go to meetings or whatever. Once I realized that some of my personality quirks were fairly typical of adult children of alcoholics, I said "huh" and filed that information away. Sometimes it's helpful
- This sort of thing is harder if you have a partner with an iffy relationship to alcohol, so make sure you look at that part of your life. It's all ultimately your choice but if you and your boyfriend are used to crazy drunken behavior, neither one of you may think to say "This is bullshit, something need to change"
- If he comes to your house again like that, call the cops on him.
- If your family is stuck in his dysfunctional spider web, feel free to try to give them an alternative that isn't threatening "hey we all know Dad has a fucked up problem, but it doesn't help any of us to fight with each other and/or pretend it doesn't exist" and encourage them, especially your Mom, to find their own ways to deal with the problem, whether it's to decide "dad has a disease and he can't help it" or "he's ruining his health" or "well I'm just stuck here so I should make the best of it" You have an opportunity to be a sane alternative to the enabling messy thinking that can permeate families led by alcoholics. At the very least try to keep the drama to a minimum. My stepmom will sometimes make excuses for my Dad and I cut those conversations short. I am sympathetic to her and her life, but don't really want to discuss my Dad's embarassing drunken antics or what a jerk he was in the morning because he was hungover, so I don't.
- I concur with others, you can't help him unless he's at least interested in helping himself. For my part I try to make sure my Dad eats dinner when I'm there, doesn't drive when he's drinking, isn't verbally abusive to my stepmother and doesn't make excuses for his drinking that we both know are lies. I've told him how I feel about his drinking and I don't feel I need to say it over and over.
I'm also "the good kid" in my family, or I was before my sister became the good kid also. Trying to be "the good kid" is sort of a classic ACoA thing, you feel that if you were just beyond reproach enough, your drunken parent would stop being such a sonovabitch to you. I am sorry for this situation you're in. I know what it's like to love a parent whose actions make it seem like they don't love you back. Try to find your own peace with the father that you do have, draw some hard lines in the sand, and be prepared to stick up for yourself. If you think therapy or ACoA meetings would help -- and only you can tell, they're not for everyone -- consider it, but in the meantime spending time getting used to yourself not as someone stuck in a fucked up family, or as having escpaed from a fucked up family, but as you and who you are, your own hopes and dreams and whateverthehell you want that's not tied up in everyone else, will help you find a path to move forward out of all of this. I wish you the bext of luck. Email is in my profile if you'd like someone to talk to.
posted by jessamyn at 9:53 PM on June 5, 2006 [1 favorite]
- I mentioned to him at one point that I had stopped drinking because I didn't like what it had done to me. I never drink around him. I don't stay at events where he is drinking to excess (he is a bit of a private drinker so this is not difficult) and I won't stay at dinner with him if he's having more than a drink or two. When I visit him I excuse myself when the wine bottles come out and go do something else. I don't belabor the point, I just don't stick around in what I know is possibly going to be a lousy situation.
- I found the ACoA literature useful to read, I didn't feel that I needed to go to meetings or whatever. Once I realized that some of my personality quirks were fairly typical of adult children of alcoholics, I said "huh" and filed that information away. Sometimes it's helpful
- This sort of thing is harder if you have a partner with an iffy relationship to alcohol, so make sure you look at that part of your life. It's all ultimately your choice but if you and your boyfriend are used to crazy drunken behavior, neither one of you may think to say "This is bullshit, something need to change"
- If he comes to your house again like that, call the cops on him.
- If your family is stuck in his dysfunctional spider web, feel free to try to give them an alternative that isn't threatening "hey we all know Dad has a fucked up problem, but it doesn't help any of us to fight with each other and/or pretend it doesn't exist" and encourage them, especially your Mom, to find their own ways to deal with the problem, whether it's to decide "dad has a disease and he can't help it" or "he's ruining his health" or "well I'm just stuck here so I should make the best of it" You have an opportunity to be a sane alternative to the enabling messy thinking that can permeate families led by alcoholics. At the very least try to keep the drama to a minimum. My stepmom will sometimes make excuses for my Dad and I cut those conversations short. I am sympathetic to her and her life, but don't really want to discuss my Dad's embarassing drunken antics or what a jerk he was in the morning because he was hungover, so I don't.
- I concur with others, you can't help him unless he's at least interested in helping himself. For my part I try to make sure my Dad eats dinner when I'm there, doesn't drive when he's drinking, isn't verbally abusive to my stepmother and doesn't make excuses for his drinking that we both know are lies. I've told him how I feel about his drinking and I don't feel I need to say it over and over.
I'm also "the good kid" in my family, or I was before my sister became the good kid also. Trying to be "the good kid" is sort of a classic ACoA thing, you feel that if you were just beyond reproach enough, your drunken parent would stop being such a sonovabitch to you. I am sorry for this situation you're in. I know what it's like to love a parent whose actions make it seem like they don't love you back. Try to find your own peace with the father that you do have, draw some hard lines in the sand, and be prepared to stick up for yourself. If you think therapy or ACoA meetings would help -- and only you can tell, they're not for everyone -- consider it, but in the meantime spending time getting used to yourself not as someone stuck in a fucked up family, or as having escpaed from a fucked up family, but as you and who you are, your own hopes and dreams and whateverthehell you want that's not tied up in everyone else, will help you find a path to move forward out of all of this. I wish you the bext of luck. Email is in my profile if you'd like someone to talk to.
posted by jessamyn at 9:53 PM on June 5, 2006 [1 favorite]
I'm yet another vote for the lonefrontranger plan. I've been there, done that with two very screwed up and non-functional parents -- one of whom is now deceased. I moved half way across the country to go to grad school and since have lived in several states all with a good distance between me and the state where my family lives. I seldom visit anymore, though I talk frequently with my one and only sister.
And to tell the truth, when my mother died my sister and I looked at each other with a sigh of relief. We had dodged a bullet! It is what it is.
You have to save yourself and not feel guilty for doing so. People don't understand this if they haven't been through it. They don't get that not all families are like the Waltons -- and some of them are extremely far removed from some ideal family.
Cut your father loose until (or if ever), he gets his shit together. As Jessamyn said, if he shows up on your doorstep and causes a spectacle, call the cops on him. Visit your family when he's not around or have then come visit you at your house. Get a little counseling for yourself to make yourself feel better.
You are not responsible for solving this situation and you deserve to be happy. I wish you the best in learning to deal with this situation. :)
posted by bim at 10:11 PM on June 5, 2006
And to tell the truth, when my mother died my sister and I looked at each other with a sigh of relief. We had dodged a bullet! It is what it is.
You have to save yourself and not feel guilty for doing so. People don't understand this if they haven't been through it. They don't get that not all families are like the Waltons -- and some of them are extremely far removed from some ideal family.
Cut your father loose until (or if ever), he gets his shit together. As Jessamyn said, if he shows up on your doorstep and causes a spectacle, call the cops on him. Visit your family when he's not around or have then come visit you at your house. Get a little counseling for yourself to make yourself feel better.
You are not responsible for solving this situation and you deserve to be happy. I wish you the best in learning to deal with this situation. :)
posted by bim at 10:11 PM on June 5, 2006
>No, there's nothing you can do about it. I'm sorry.
I disagree. I recommend seeing a therapist - your words show how much pain and how much anger you are feeling, and it would be good to unburden yourself weekly, or twice a month, with a good therapist.
My worst fear, when looking at my own dysfunctional family dynamic, was to adopt the same emotive traits as either of my parents. I didn't want to be angry like my mom can be angry, and I didn't want to be distant like my dad used to virtually disappear.
Therapy can help break that terrible chain. And I heartily second investigating AlAnon or ACOA.
posted by seawallrunner at 10:40 PM on June 5, 2006
I disagree. I recommend seeing a therapist - your words show how much pain and how much anger you are feeling, and it would be good to unburden yourself weekly, or twice a month, with a good therapist.
My worst fear, when looking at my own dysfunctional family dynamic, was to adopt the same emotive traits as either of my parents. I didn't want to be angry like my mom can be angry, and I didn't want to be distant like my dad used to virtually disappear.
Therapy can help break that terrible chain. And I heartily second investigating AlAnon or ACOA.
posted by seawallrunner at 10:40 PM on June 5, 2006
As another child of an alcoholic father, a lot of what you say really hits home (and jessamyn's advice is pretty much there). I second (third, fourth, whatever) the recommendation of AlAnon or ACoA (the literature, anyway). I'm not a big fan of AlAnon, myself (too much religion), but one thing that any kid of an alcoholic should take to heart is the Serenity prayer: "Change the things you can, and fuck the things you can't." It's pretty much that simple. It's not easy at all, but it's that simple. And it applies just as much to your co-dependent relatives as it does to your father (though your other relatives are maybe slightly more receptive to logic).
Anyway, I had this really long TMI shit, but ultimately it boils down to this: Insanity is contagious. Don't. Fucking. Catch it. Do what you need to become a happy, reasonably well-adjusted person. I can guarantee you that deep (way, way deep) down that is what your father wants (he won't realize it unless and until he gets help, which you can't get for him), and it's something the rest of your family needs to see.
Like I said, simple, but not easy. If you need a therapist to wrap your head around it, well, you wouldn't be the first.
posted by dirigibleman at 1:44 AM on June 6, 2006 [1 favorite]
Anyway, I had this really long TMI shit, but ultimately it boils down to this: Insanity is contagious. Don't. Fucking. Catch it. Do what you need to become a happy, reasonably well-adjusted person. I can guarantee you that deep (way, way deep) down that is what your father wants (he won't realize it unless and until he gets help, which you can't get for him), and it's something the rest of your family needs to see.
Like I said, simple, but not easy. If you need a therapist to wrap your head around it, well, you wouldn't be the first.
posted by dirigibleman at 1:44 AM on June 6, 2006 [1 favorite]
I second the “call the cops” people.
No, no ultimatums; no interventions. Don’t try to give him some sort of ‘fair warning’, or try to chat him up on a psychologist’s advice.
Otherwise, long after he has died, you’ll have gained the distance, by default, to look back and see what an abusive piece of shit he has been. And you won’t be able to go back and spend the intervening time having a normal (ie, abuse-free—no matter whether it’s physical or psychological/verbal abuse. I have no idea why people separate the two; they’re the same in my experience: scars are scars, and pain is pain. You don’t get some kind of discount on the suffering your dad’s sadistic abuses inflict on you because you don’t have scars on your arms.) life because, “phew, you don’t have to deal with him anymore...”
He doesn’t have anything on you. Just move on, to violence-and suffering-free living. And don’t listen to people who tell you it isn’t really abuse if your dad never beats you up, or that this sort—psychological/verbal abuse—isn’t “that bad.” Please understand that they’re precisely the same, these two types of violence.
Email’s in profile if I can answer any questions, if you want to talk or rant, etc.
posted by Yeomans at 6:30 AM on June 6, 2006 [1 favorite]
No, no ultimatums; no interventions. Don’t try to give him some sort of ‘fair warning’, or try to chat him up on a psychologist’s advice.
Otherwise, long after he has died, you’ll have gained the distance, by default, to look back and see what an abusive piece of shit he has been. And you won’t be able to go back and spend the intervening time having a normal (ie, abuse-free—no matter whether it’s physical or psychological/verbal abuse. I have no idea why people separate the two; they’re the same in my experience: scars are scars, and pain is pain. You don’t get some kind of discount on the suffering your dad’s sadistic abuses inflict on you because you don’t have scars on your arms.) life because, “phew, you don’t have to deal with him anymore...”
He doesn’t have anything on you. Just move on, to violence-and suffering-free living. And don’t listen to people who tell you it isn’t really abuse if your dad never beats you up, or that this sort—psychological/verbal abuse—isn’t “that bad.” Please understand that they’re precisely the same, these two types of violence.
Email’s in profile if I can answer any questions, if you want to talk or rant, etc.
posted by Yeomans at 6:30 AM on June 6, 2006 [1 favorite]
OrangeShoe: my wife and I have recently been there with her father. Almost to the letter.
Cut him out of your life, he's not the same person he was before he was drinking. You're not removing your father from your life, you're removing the drunk asshole from your life until your father has the strength to return. There's nothing you can do to give him that strength, but you can bolster your own reserves by talking it out with a therapist or with your peers. Even this thread is, no doubt, girding you for the unseen strife ahead.
Make it clear -- ONCE -- that further contact of any kind is unwelcome. This isn't really to appease or warn your dad, it's to help shore up your defenses should a family member consider your calling the cops to be "going too far". You don't want to alienate your other family members, if possible. Of course, this is just my opinion from my own experience; other responders have other things to suggest, so take from the thread what you need. :)
If the line is crossed, call the cops. Don't treat him like your dad, treat him like the emotionally abusive drunk that has taken over his life. It could be that the rest of your family draws strength from your willingness to stand up to him, and they may start taking a similar approach. He's not going to get any help as long as he has a sympathetic ear to listen to his paranoid delusions, so until the rest of the family shuns him and forces him to reevaluate his mindset, you'll probably be without the dad you were hoping to have.
It sucks, being here. I know it. You're not alone, OrangeShoe, there are many of us out here who have tried to help someone who didn't think they needed help. It's never worth the effort. I know you love the real man behind the alcohol. Honor that by not dealing with the crude copy that alcohol has created.
Some day, if he is lucky, something or someone or some divine influence (if he's at all religious) will set him on the road to recovery. In the meantime, don't let the poisoned man that alcohol has created ruin your future.
posted by Merdryn at 7:13 AM on June 6, 2006
Cut him out of your life, he's not the same person he was before he was drinking. You're not removing your father from your life, you're removing the drunk asshole from your life until your father has the strength to return. There's nothing you can do to give him that strength, but you can bolster your own reserves by talking it out with a therapist or with your peers. Even this thread is, no doubt, girding you for the unseen strife ahead.
Make it clear -- ONCE -- that further contact of any kind is unwelcome. This isn't really to appease or warn your dad, it's to help shore up your defenses should a family member consider your calling the cops to be "going too far". You don't want to alienate your other family members, if possible. Of course, this is just my opinion from my own experience; other responders have other things to suggest, so take from the thread what you need. :)
If the line is crossed, call the cops. Don't treat him like your dad, treat him like the emotionally abusive drunk that has taken over his life. It could be that the rest of your family draws strength from your willingness to stand up to him, and they may start taking a similar approach. He's not going to get any help as long as he has a sympathetic ear to listen to his paranoid delusions, so until the rest of the family shuns him and forces him to reevaluate his mindset, you'll probably be without the dad you were hoping to have.
It sucks, being here. I know it. You're not alone, OrangeShoe, there are many of us out here who have tried to help someone who didn't think they needed help. It's never worth the effort. I know you love the real man behind the alcohol. Honor that by not dealing with the crude copy that alcohol has created.
Some day, if he is lucky, something or someone or some divine influence (if he's at all religious) will set him on the road to recovery. In the meantime, don't let the poisoned man that alcohol has created ruin your future.
posted by Merdryn at 7:13 AM on June 6, 2006
Cut him off.
My relationship with my mother is not half as bad as yours, but involved enough psychological pain that I've virtually cut her off. It has been a really good idea.
If you don't need him, you don't need his bullshit. Like smallerdemon said, "family" is not a license for abuse.
posted by Anonymous at 7:18 AM on June 6, 2006
My relationship with my mother is not half as bad as yours, but involved enough psychological pain that I've virtually cut her off. It has been a really good idea.
If you don't need him, you don't need his bullshit. Like smallerdemon said, "family" is not a license for abuse.
posted by Anonymous at 7:18 AM on June 6, 2006
To add to what others have said, not only should you keep him out of your life, but you should acknowledge to yourself that it's actually the best and most honest thing you can do, not just for yourself, but for him. What he could really use is an indication that he does in fact have serious problems, that he doesn't have the whole family under his control, and that there are people who don't have to put up with his crap. Actions speak louder than words, especially to someone in so much denial.
posted by bingo at 7:43 AM on June 6, 2006
posted by bingo at 7:43 AM on June 6, 2006
I found this book to be helpful in dealing with family issues: If You Had Controlling Parents: How to Make Peace with Your Past and Take Your Place in the World by Dan Neubarth.
Another one you may find useful is Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life by Susan Forward (a few excerpts here).
Good luck. You've got it rough, but you sound like you're ahead of the game already since you have it together better than your siblings, so that's something. I've found distance and time have helped me the most, so far. Allowing yourself to set and reinforce boundaries will definitely help also.
posted by Melinika at 7:59 AM on June 6, 2006
Another one you may find useful is Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life by Susan Forward (a few excerpts here).
Good luck. You've got it rough, but you sound like you're ahead of the game already since you have it together better than your siblings, so that's something. I've found distance and time have helped me the most, so far. Allowing yourself to set and reinforce boundaries will definitely help also.
posted by Melinika at 7:59 AM on June 6, 2006
I agree with the idea that you have to think of yourself first, but since you expressed a desire to help the rest of your family from the effects of your father's illness, it might be worthwhile to look into ways to help members of your family become more self-reliant & less vulnerable to his power games. I'm thinking of basic practical stuff to help them stand up on their own. While you're doing that, try as much as possible to maintain separation between your help & your problems with your father. What I mean is, do it for its own sake & not as a means towards an end of recruiting allies against him. That's a lot to ask & you may not be up for the challenge of it in between dealing with your own issues & the disruptiveness of your father. But if you are, something to consider.
posted by scalefree at 9:17 AM on June 6, 2006
posted by scalefree at 9:17 AM on June 6, 2006
Except for the "daughter" and "grad school" I've been there. Get thee to Al-anon. There you will learn that the manipulation and selfishness are all part of alcoholism. Perhaps the biggest thing to learn is that there are stronger bonds than blood and, like it or not, lifestyle is one of them. You and your father are moving in different directions. Don't allow yourself to feel guilty because of that. He has made his choices and will have to live with them.
posted by kc0dxh at 9:47 AM on June 6, 2006
posted by kc0dxh at 9:47 AM on June 6, 2006
Seconding lonefrontranger with the reminder that this is not his problem until he decides he has a problem. Until then, you are the one with the problem, and you are the one who needs your attention and love. Be good to yourself. Leave your father out of your physical presence for a while or maybe forever, but don't try to stop thinking of him. As an adult child of alcoholics I can say it's almost impossible to live a day without wondering how they are doing. I wish you luck with this. It is hard, but makes things easier.
posted by bilabial at 7:59 AM on June 7, 2006
posted by bilabial at 7:59 AM on June 7, 2006
Response by poster: Your responses were truly constructive. I really appreciate your input. I might just take a couple of you up on that ranting and raving invitation.
posted by orangeshoe at 10:31 PM on June 15, 2006
posted by orangeshoe at 10:31 PM on June 15, 2006
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This thread is closed to new comments.
Usually when people posts threads like this it's because they want support for an unpleasant decision that they feel they have to make, in your case cutting off contact with your father or something like that. It's easier for people without with distance to make that call, I think.
In your case, that seems like the best idea. Your father was a big part of your life, but it doesn't sound like you really need him for anything. So why put up with all this drama? You love him, but in time that could fade, like dumping a bad boyfriend.
Of course, society expects different things, namely a lot more patience with family members. But obviously you need more space. If your dad wants to cut off communication with you, take this as an opportunity to do so. Try to limit your contact with him for a while until you can get some emotional distance.
That's what I would suggest, anyway. You might want to see a therapist for yourself as well, to work through these issues.
posted by delmoi at 9:13 PM on June 5, 2006