Contingency savings in Europe as a US Citizen
February 6, 2025 7:45 AM Subscribe
If I (an American citizen) hypothetically want to park 10K Euro in an account outside the US can I do so without tax/reporting headaches?
Does the answer to this change if I have a relative abroad (specifically in Spain)? I could theoretically gift them the money, but I think Spain has pretty low reporting thresholds? I'm not trying to hide anything but I'm not interested in doing a lot of paperwork or paying taxes, this is more of a very paranoid contingency plan not a rational calculation.
Does the answer to this change if I have a relative abroad (specifically in Spain)? I could theoretically gift them the money, but I think Spain has pretty low reporting thresholds? I'm not trying to hide anything but I'm not interested in doing a lot of paperwork or paying taxes, this is more of a very paranoid contingency plan not a rational calculation.
No, it's not possible as a US citizen to open a foreign bank account without a ton of paperwork. FACTA will apply unless it's someplace without normalized relations with the US. El Salvador maybe?
posted by fiercekitten at 8:22 AM on February 6 [1 favorite]
posted by fiercekitten at 8:22 AM on February 6 [1 favorite]
You can leave the country with less than $10k cash without reporting it to anyone. If I were so inclined I'd grab a cheap flight to the Bahamas or Canada. Different countries have rules around how a USA citizen can open a bank account. So one way is to deal with the process to establish an account with the minimum to avoid fees (say $100). Then use that standing to get a safety deposit box for storing hard currency. If that's not attractive or too many roadblocks for you there is an entire industry of safe deposit box services with high privacy guardrails.
So either use that foreign account standing to get a safety deposit box (or do a 3rd party one) where you would keep your cash. You can freely choose what foreign currency to store and continue to make flights to store hard money staying below the 10k threshold. So you could keep half in Canadian which is currently at 43% but historically hangs out around 20% and is likely to get close to parity if we as a nation get fucked up financially. Then next trip buy euros. Or whatever...
posted by chasles at 8:38 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
So either use that foreign account standing to get a safety deposit box (or do a 3rd party one) where you would keep your cash. You can freely choose what foreign currency to store and continue to make flights to store hard money staying below the 10k threshold. So you could keep half in Canadian which is currently at 43% but historically hangs out around 20% and is likely to get close to parity if we as a nation get fucked up financially. Then next trip buy euros. Or whatever...
posted by chasles at 8:38 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
In the previous thread there didn't seem to be a lot of great choices. Wise is multicurrency but their actual funds are stateside, so if this is a hedge against the US financial system turning into a mess, I'm not sure it helps.
I too have been looking at options; getting out of the US entirely unless you are either moving a huge amount of money or are domiciled (not necessarily as a permanent resident) elsewhere seems not to really be an option. I don't know global finance well enough to offer imperfect solutions (maybe someone who does can weigh in), but it seems like a potential plan might be moving to banks whose assets and investments are largely not American, even when the bank itself has an American presence. I'm not sure what that means for the stability of investments in their American subsidiaries, though, whether the security of doing so would be pure illusion.
For foreign banks with significant US presence (and the ability for Americans to open accounts), UBS (Switzerland) and RBC (Canada) spring to mind.
posted by jackbishop at 8:47 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
I too have been looking at options; getting out of the US entirely unless you are either moving a huge amount of money or are domiciled (not necessarily as a permanent resident) elsewhere seems not to really be an option. I don't know global finance well enough to offer imperfect solutions (maybe someone who does can weigh in), but it seems like a potential plan might be moving to banks whose assets and investments are largely not American, even when the bank itself has an American presence. I'm not sure what that means for the stability of investments in their American subsidiaries, though, whether the security of doing so would be pure illusion.
For foreign banks with significant US presence (and the ability for Americans to open accounts), UBS (Switzerland) and RBC (Canada) spring to mind.
posted by jackbishop at 8:47 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
What's "a lot"? There's paperwork but it's not necessarily onerous. (Your bank abroad will also need to do paperwork on their end, which is why some banks refuse to open accounts for US citizens.)
I linked to some IRS/treasury pages about how this works in that other thread.
posted by trig at 9:26 AM on February 6
I linked to some IRS/treasury pages about how this works in that other thread.
posted by trig at 9:26 AM on February 6
I ultimately decided it would be easier for me to gain citizenship in another country and do a long term rental hedge than to gain nonresident banking elsewhere. Not a lot of great answers, because most people trying to do this are people trying to avoid taxes, not refugees from a hell-government.
posted by corb at 9:27 AM on February 6
posted by corb at 9:27 AM on February 6
There's a possibility you could trip money-laundering alarms, or interest from the local revenue collection agency, depending on the amount. Governments are very interested in money moving in or out of a country 'cos they want some! So yeah, I think fill in the paperwork or potentially answer some awkward questions.
posted by BigCalm at 9:31 AM on February 6
posted by BigCalm at 9:31 AM on February 6
The price of gold coins has been spiking recently, not the most stable store of value, but better than say Bitcoin. I think a lot of the increased demand is down to people hedging themselves against the current US administration.
posted by Lanark at 9:38 AM on February 6
posted by Lanark at 9:38 AM on February 6
My brother has investigated options for moving money to the UK and found that the Channel Islands were an option, but he did not find anywhere that offered deposit insurance. (He is a UK/US citizen. I don't know how much of a factor citizenship was, but not being physically in the UK ruled out most mainstream options. He already has to do the paperwork, so doesn't care about that.)
posted by hoyland at 11:31 AM on February 6
posted by hoyland at 11:31 AM on February 6
Any US citizen with foreign financial accounts totaling over $10,000 USD must file an FBAR by the tax filing deadline — every year that the total value of those accounts exceeds that threshold. Note that $10,000 applies to the total across all accounts — so someone with $5,000 USD in one foreign account, and $6,000 USD in another foreign account, would be required to file.
https://www.fincen.gov/report-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts
If you are under that limit, I don't believe there is any additional paperwork required.
There are separate reporting requirements for things like stocks/securities, but to my knowledge simple bank accounts only require an FBAR.
IANAL, just a US citizen living overseas.
posted by mekily at 11:33 AM on February 6 [6 favorites]
https://www.fincen.gov/report-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts
If you are under that limit, I don't believe there is any additional paperwork required.
There are separate reporting requirements for things like stocks/securities, but to my knowledge simple bank accounts only require an FBAR.
IANAL, just a US citizen living overseas.
posted by mekily at 11:33 AM on February 6 [6 favorites]
It's also worth noting that because of the stringent reporting requirement the USA puts on its citizens, some foreign banks will refuse to bank with US citizens, or give you additional hoops to jump through (e.g. requiring you to be a resident of the bank's country, or submitting extra paperwork). But it should be possible to find a foreign bank that will allow you to open an account.
posted by mekily at 11:38 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
posted by mekily at 11:38 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]
I’m a USian who’s a tax resident of Spain. FBAR / FinCen reporting is by far the least obnoxious money reporting I do every year, and I have accounts in several countries. It can be done online in a few minutes.
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 12:07 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 12:07 PM on February 6 [3 favorites]
Yeah FBAR is not a big deal -- just make sure you never forget to file it.
...the bigger problem is that US Persons (*especially* ones that aren't resident in a foreign country) are a PITA for foreign banks to deal with, so it can be hard to find a place that's willing to deal with the hassle of having you as a client. The ones that do tend to require larger accounts, or have higher fees, or both.
Probably the "easiest" solution would be a safe deposit box in Switzerland, but you'd almost certainly want to prepay the rental fees for a couple of years to get them interested (plus then you don't lose the box because you couldn't take time away to visit Switzerland). I wouldn't, personally, use any of the broker-type companies online for this; I'd contact the relevant banks directly and then visit in-person.
If you're able to get an OCI card then banks in India will be willing to deal with you once you have it, but the rules can get reasonably complicated (NRE vs. NRO, etc. etc.) so you may want a local accountant to help you sort things out.
...alternatively, just invest in foreign markets via an ETF from Vanguard and stash Euro-denominated funds in Wise?
posted by aramaic at 1:26 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
...the bigger problem is that US Persons (*especially* ones that aren't resident in a foreign country) are a PITA for foreign banks to deal with, so it can be hard to find a place that's willing to deal with the hassle of having you as a client. The ones that do tend to require larger accounts, or have higher fees, or both.
Probably the "easiest" solution would be a safe deposit box in Switzerland, but you'd almost certainly want to prepay the rental fees for a couple of years to get them interested (plus then you don't lose the box because you couldn't take time away to visit Switzerland). I wouldn't, personally, use any of the broker-type companies online for this; I'd contact the relevant banks directly and then visit in-person.
If you're able to get an OCI card then banks in India will be willing to deal with you once you have it, but the rules can get reasonably complicated (NRE vs. NRO, etc. etc.) so you may want a local accountant to help you sort things out.
...alternatively, just invest in foreign markets via an ETF from Vanguard and stash Euro-denominated funds in Wise?
posted by aramaic at 1:26 PM on February 6 [1 favorite]
continue to make flights to store hard money staying below the 10k threshold
this might be illegal structuring. not a lawyer.
an idea that I don't particularly endorse: there are euro-denominated "stablecoins." It's cryptocurrency, in theory backed 1:1 by euros held in European banks, and you could in theory hold your USDC in a "cold wallet"- that is, offline and not reachable by anyone who doesn't have the passcode or wallet device.
It's crypto, so it's hard to enumerate the many ways it can be unsafe, it's like stashing... bearer bonds... underneath your mattress... that have a competely unknown chance of self-immolating. But! On the plus side, the new administration seems broadly pro-crypto, so it's probably not going to become illegal.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:17 PM on February 6
this might be illegal structuring. not a lawyer.
an idea that I don't particularly endorse: there are euro-denominated "stablecoins." It's cryptocurrency, in theory backed 1:1 by euros held in European banks, and you could in theory hold your USDC in a "cold wallet"- that is, offline and not reachable by anyone who doesn't have the passcode or wallet device.
It's crypto, so it's hard to enumerate the many ways it can be unsafe, it's like stashing... bearer bonds... underneath your mattress... that have a competely unknown chance of self-immolating. But! On the plus side, the new administration seems broadly pro-crypto, so it's probably not going to become illegal.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:17 PM on February 6
(I have no idea what the reporting requirements are for crypto. probably if you buy a bunch of EURC on an American exchange and send it to an offline wallet, the Feds could know about it if they really wanted, and Circle-the-company can freeze USDC or EURC accounts and will if they get a court order, they're US-based. The other big Euro-denominated stablecoin is from some company called Stasis headquartered in... Malta...? and therefore maybe less exposed to American politics, but on the other hand, you have to at least partly trust some Maltese company. this is, and I cannot stress this enough, not an endorsement of the idea)
posted by BungaDunga at 8:30 PM on February 6
posted by BungaDunga at 8:30 PM on February 6
Legally, American citizens with foreign bank accounts or various funds have to file FBARs as noted above. If you unwittingly fail to file, the fine is $10,000. I don’t even want to think about how much it is if they decide you have done it on purpose to hide from tax obligations. So I’m just another American expat who filed for 2024 today. I just don’t have the budget for skipping the legal niceties. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 12:04 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 12:04 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
If they decide you have hidden it on purpose the penalty for misreporting on the FBAR is 100,000$ or 50% of the total value of the hidden account-- whichever is higher.
Which isn't terrifying or anything.
posted by frumiousb at 5:35 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
Which isn't terrifying or anything.
posted by frumiousb at 5:35 AM on February 7 [1 favorite]
Bank of Georgia can hold money in USD, Euro, or the local currency. You can walk into a branch. I imagine you can hire a proxy to create an account.
posted by jander03 at 6:24 AM on February 17
posted by jander03 at 6:24 AM on February 17
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You could definitely open a multi-currency account. Wise might be one of the easier options. You can hold money in other currencies basically. I can't speak to the reporting requirements.
posted by vacapinta at 7:59 AM on February 6 [2 favorites]