Why is my Windows 10 PC choking on 4K video?
December 19, 2024 9:43 AM Subscribe
I have an Intel NUC (running Windows 10), and I'm trying to use it with Windows Media Center and a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Flex 4K tuner. The computer has decent specs (an NVMe SSD, 11th-gen Intel i7 processor, and 8GB RAM), but it has trouble displaying over-the-air TV shows—either live or recorded—in 4K. I'm using the regular onboard graphics that came with the NUC.
Windows 10 doesn't normally support Windows Media Center (WMC), but I was able to install it without incident using this installer. WMC sort-of works, but it chokes and stutters. If I manually reduce the resolution in Windows, WMC works better.
What's particularly odd about this situation is that my former Win-7 computer was much older and crappier, and yet it was able to play 4K TV shows without much of an issue (except, sometimes, during live sports events when the bitrate was higher).
Can someone explain why this is happening, and what I might be able to do to fix the problem? The hard drive died in the old computer, so I'm configuring this new machine. The main user of the system is averse to using anything other than Windows Media Center.
Windows 10 doesn't normally support Windows Media Center (WMC), but I was able to install it without incident using this installer. WMC sort-of works, but it chokes and stutters. If I manually reduce the resolution in Windows, WMC works better.
What's particularly odd about this situation is that my former Win-7 computer was much older and crappier, and yet it was able to play 4K TV shows without much of an issue (except, sometimes, during live sports events when the bitrate was higher).
Can someone explain why this is happening, and what I might be able to do to fix the problem? The hard drive died in the old computer, so I'm configuring this new machine. The main user of the system is averse to using anything other than Windows Media Center.
Response by poster: I don't think that the problem lies with the tuner or the antenna. Nothing has changed with my overall system except the computer. TV shows work fine on the HDHomeRun app running on that same Windows 10 computer, though I'm not sure if I ever tried running it full-screen on my 4K display. I'll try that tonight to see what happens.
posted by akk2014 at 10:33 AM on December 19
posted by akk2014 at 10:33 AM on December 19
Response by poster: The issue happens across the board with all the TV stations. I misspoke when I referred to "4K TV shows". What I meant is, "TV shows displayed on a 4K monitor".
posted by akk2014 at 10:51 AM on December 19
posted by akk2014 at 10:51 AM on December 19
I hate to say it, but as long as the HDHomeRun app works without issue on the same machine, the core issue is likely that while WMC was a supported component of Windows 7 and Windows 8, it has never been supported in Windows 10. The final releases of Win7 and Win8 are from over 8 years ago and are no longer supported in any way even if you were technically able to install WMC in a hackish way.
It's often difficult to address interface changes with those averse to change, but this may be a time where it's necessary.
posted by eschatfische at 10:56 AM on December 19
It's often difficult to address interface changes with those averse to change, but this may be a time where it's necessary.
posted by eschatfische at 10:56 AM on December 19
Response by poster: Thanks, you might be right about WMC not running well under Windows 10. If things don't work out with the current i7 machine, I'll probably go to eBay and get a refurbished PC that's capable of running Windows 7. Alternatively, I might just reduce the resolution on the current system. 4K is probably overkill anyway.
posted by akk2014 at 11:16 AM on December 19
posted by akk2014 at 11:16 AM on December 19
Most NUC use shared ram for video memory. You can bump up the amount in the BIOS. That might help with display throughput.
posted by nickggully at 12:11 PM on December 19
posted by nickggully at 12:11 PM on December 19
You say it has trouble displaying 4k shows--either live or recorded--without stuttering. Does this mean that 4k video files or movies you have saved locally on the PC also stutter in this way? Or is it only over-the-air that shows the problem?
Are the drivers for the onboard graphics adapter updated? Is it possible to upgrade the RAM on the machine to 16GB? Especially since onboard graphics generally shares memory with the system RAM, 8GB is not a lot to work with, for streaming/decoding 4K video, system resources, and giving some up to video memory.
posted by xedrik at 12:25 PM on December 19
Are the drivers for the onboard graphics adapter updated? Is it possible to upgrade the RAM on the machine to 16GB? Especially since onboard graphics generally shares memory with the system RAM, 8GB is not a lot to work with, for streaming/decoding 4K video, system resources, and giving some up to video memory.
posted by xedrik at 12:25 PM on December 19
Response by poster: I think that only over-the-air shows stutter, but I can confirm tonight. The drivers are up to date. I can increase the RAM to 16GB to see if that makes a difference.
Now that I think about it, another indication that this might be a WMC compatibility issue (with Win-10) is that WMC is pretty slow to respond to presses on the remote control, like if I'm changing the channel or hitting "pause". This never happened with the old Win-7 computer, using the same remote.
Thanks for all the tips.
posted by akk2014 at 12:55 PM on December 19
Now that I think about it, another indication that this might be a WMC compatibility issue (with Win-10) is that WMC is pretty slow to respond to presses on the remote control, like if I'm changing the channel or hitting "pause". This never happened with the old Win-7 computer, using the same remote.
Thanks for all the tips.
posted by akk2014 at 12:55 PM on December 19
I'm pretty certain that the on-board graphics are more than capable for displaying video smoothly at 4K. I'm assuming you've made sure you're running the latest drivers, say via Windows Update. Upgrading to 16GB or 32GB will allow you to commit more RAM to graphics use.
There's weird things that might happen with Windows 10 for security reasons, and Windiws Media Centre may be isolated in a way that stops it from benefiting from the Xe Graphics in your NUC 11. Check whether disabling Core Isolation makes a difference -- but this comes with the risk that the 'blast radius' of a malware infection is the whole OS rather than the isolated sandbox controlled by Core Isolation.
Additionally, there's a wierd search result suggesting that some HEVC-processing code can mess up all video playback. Does this apply or make a difference?
posted by k3ninho at 2:02 AM on December 20
There's weird things that might happen with Windows 10 for security reasons, and Windiws Media Centre may be isolated in a way that stops it from benefiting from the Xe Graphics in your NUC 11. Check whether disabling Core Isolation makes a difference -- but this comes with the risk that the 'blast radius' of a malware infection is the whole OS rather than the isolated sandbox controlled by Core Isolation.
Additionally, there's a wierd search result suggesting that some HEVC-processing code can mess up all video playback. Does this apply or make a difference?
posted by k3ninho at 2:02 AM on December 20
Response by poster: I did some more investigation. I also made sure that the video drivers were up to date.
I downloaded some 4K sample videos, and they play perfectly well through VLC Player running full-screen. The HDHomeRun app also plays over-the-air TV signals fine. Windows Media Center, however, continues to choke at 4K, regardless of the TV station (or whether the video stream is live or recorded). The choking is eliminated if I lower the display resolution from 4K to 2560x1440. There isn't really any appreciable loss in quality of the video image, so I could certainly live with the lower resolution. However, one snag still remains.
The remote control, which is specifically designed for Windows Media Center, works poorly even at the lower resolution. There is a significant lag between the time you press a button and the time that WMC reacts. There was no such lag on my old Windows 7 PC. Anyone have ideas about this? I think I'll also post on the Green Button forum, which is dedicated to discussions about WMC.
posted by akk2014 at 8:54 AM on December 20
I downloaded some 4K sample videos, and they play perfectly well through VLC Player running full-screen. The HDHomeRun app also plays over-the-air TV signals fine. Windows Media Center, however, continues to choke at 4K, regardless of the TV station (or whether the video stream is live or recorded). The choking is eliminated if I lower the display resolution from 4K to 2560x1440. There isn't really any appreciable loss in quality of the video image, so I could certainly live with the lower resolution. However, one snag still remains.
The remote control, which is specifically designed for Windows Media Center, works poorly even at the lower resolution. There is a significant lag between the time you press a button and the time that WMC reacts. There was no such lag on my old Windows 7 PC. Anyone have ideas about this? I think I'll also post on the Green Button forum, which is dedicated to discussions about WMC.
posted by akk2014 at 8:54 AM on December 20
My question to you is... who actually do over-the-air at 4K? AFAIK, FCC hadn't mandated ATSC 3.0 (which is 4K OTA support) until 2027. You're probably seeing your video upscaled locally to 4K, but you're actually receiving HD signals, so trying to capture in 4K is just a waste of your CPU cycles.
posted by kschang at 1:18 PM on December 20
posted by kschang at 1:18 PM on December 20
Response by poster: @kschang: Good point. The TV I'm using has a native resolution of 4K, so I assumed that I should set the Windows resolution to match it. But you're probably right in that I should just lower the resolution on the PC. Do you have a suggested setting I should use? Would it be 1920x1080?
posted by akk2014 at 1:24 PM on December 20
posted by akk2014 at 1:24 PM on December 20
One more thing to try... VLC may be able to capture from the tuner itself. That should determine whether it's WMC being the bottleneck, or your hardware.
posted by kschang at 1:47 PM on December 20
posted by kschang at 1:47 PM on December 20
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Is the issue that the HEVC (ie, 4K-capable) stations in your market are stuttering, but the standard HD or SD stations are not? Or are you having this issue across the board with both HEVC as well as standard HD and SD stations? Some clarification on the issues specifically with "4K" shows would be helpful, as they are still rather rare over an antenna.
The most common cause of stuttering with OTA broadcasts is going to be antenna placement and reception. Perhaps they're trying to watch HEVC stations that their previous setup was able to reliably pick up as their standard broadcasts (and which the Flex 4K and WMC can still support, but are not defaulting to in the station list)?
If that's not the issue, can a phone or other device on the same network play these stations via the HDHomeRun app without issue? Testing for that, you can determine whether that's an issue with reception with the HDHomeRun or the installation of WMC on the client device. (A NUC with an i7 and SSD should certainly be able to support content streaming from an HDHomeRun.) Can you test with the HDHomeRun app on the NUC itself?
The SiliconDust Forums may be a better place to raise this, including the specifics I mentioned above.
posted by eschatfische at 10:14 AM on December 19