Could I Have Handled This Better?

November 21, 2024 1:38 PM

Today I found a guy in the street opposite my apartment. He was in like a prayer position, with his knees in the street against the kerb and his torso held up by his elbows on the sidewalk. He had two bags of groceries which he'd dropped and looked out cold/ nodded out. I called local non-emergency police and the fire dept came and got him up and moving. I don't know if I should've just tried to do that myself first, or if calling for help was the better option?

When the fire dept arrived I couldn't see what was happening because their truck was between me and them, but when they left I could see the guy - a bit dazed - gathering his groceries.
Also, I'd just come back from a very poor area where there's a lot of drug use, so that was on my mind, despite not having explicit indication of that in this case.
So: I'm assuming here that he wasn't having a medical emergency, but whatever happened must've been pretty significant for him to wind up in that state. I guess I'm thinking that if the fire dept just woke him up, I could've saved a lot of bother by doing that myself? I'm asking because I've just never been this situation before/ would like to know what to do if there's a next time. Thanks!

posted by 7 Minutes of Madness to Grab Bag (26 answers total)

Sounds like you did the right thing. If he had had a heart attack or stroke you could have saved his life.
posted by knobknosher at 1:54 PM on November 21 [11 favorites]

It sounds like, from the reference to a lot of drug use you might be wary/scared of getting involved, so sounds like you did just fine.

I think a 'Hey bud, you need help?' if you see a fallen soul can't hurt before escalating to a possible 'situation'. But a lot of this depends on context-- In the USA I think I'd always do the 'Hey bud?' first because I know even a good deed (calling for help) might end up costing someone with epilepsy or whatever a couple of grand in medical transport.
posted by Static Vagabond at 1:58 PM on November 21 [11 favorites]

Do you regularly carry Narcan on you? Many localities offer it free. If you carry Narcan, you can interrupt an overdose, which might alleviate your other concerns.
posted by corb at 2:02 PM on November 21 [2 favorites]

I agree, you did the right thing -- it's not your job to determine whether he was in enough distress to require medical care, you called those who were able to.

Whether you should directly intervene is a case-by-case thing, depending on your own safety or ability; the important thing is that you did take action, you didn't just walk by and ignore it, you should feel good that you likely helped someone in trouble.
posted by AzraelBrown at 2:13 PM on November 21 [25 favorites]

It sounds like you’d like to know whether to, and how to, intervene. I came in thinking “narcan” as well, so I suggest taking a narcan training if you can find one near you; lots of libraries and community centers offer them for free.
posted by supercres at 2:15 PM on November 21

When I took a First Aid Course a very long time ago I was taught (and still remember): Safety - Unresponsive - Need Help! - Position body - Open airway - Respiration? - Check Pulse - Insure EMS contacted - Wait for their arrival (DO NOT abandon a victim once you begin).

I just checked via Google and it seems like it's more or less approximately the same, but with special considerations for neck damage, seizures, convulsions, etc.

Also, the "Safety" means no gun fire signs (if a rescuer gets injured the same way as the victim then EMS has double the work load now).

For what it's worth.
posted by forthright at 2:41 PM on November 21 [2 favorites]

I think you did a great job. Fire Department paramedics are good people who do life saving work, they were absolutely the correct people to respond to this unknowable situation.

I have personally turned into a random fire station to have a paramedic check me out when I started feeling poorly while driving (I coulda been dying, you never know), and I consider this to be the bystander version of my own set of events. You didn't know what was going on, you saw a person in a potentially emergent state, and you got them the best help in the shortest amount of time.
posted by phunniemee at 2:52 PM on November 21 [6 favorites]

In your shoes I would approached to about ten feet and said “Sir, are you okay?” If I received no response I would done what you did.

Three times in my life I’ve been in public situations where I just needed to stop for a bit (hunched over on the ground), and in each case someone approached me that way. I said “I’m OK, I just need a moment to rest“ and we both went on with our day. It would have been very annoying if they had called someone on my behalf without asking me first.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:55 PM on November 21 [5 favorites]

Yes, you did correctly. You saw an emergency situation, didn't know exactly what to do, called the appropriate service. 100% correct call.

If you want to know more about assessing a situation or providing Narcan there are many types of trainings including free virtual ones. Narcan is pretty harmless if you are incorrect about a person needing it and if it doesn't work you know immediately that emergency services needs to be called.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:45 PM on November 21 [3 favorites]

I would not carry narcan around just so I could narcan a stranger. I’d run out of narcan really fast and the strangers would get mad at me for wrecking their high.

It is completely appropriate not to interact with people that appear to be in distress and defer to emergency services. In certain neighbourhoods, doing nothing at all would also be ok. Your personal safety is most important.
posted by shock muppet at 4:55 PM on November 21 [6 favorites]

I think you did exactly the right thing. I might have asked him if he was okay before calling, to see if he was responsive or not, but definitely calling was the right thing to do.
posted by maryellenreads at 5:18 PM on November 21

You did the right thing.
posted by SageTrail at 5:29 PM on November 21 [2 favorites]

Do you regularly carry Narcan on you? Many localities offer it free. If you carry Narcan, you can interrupt an overdose, which might alleviate your other concerns.

What? I doubt you can decide to just give narcan to a stranger who has dropped his groceries and who might just be having a heart attack, diabetic reaction, whatever. OP did not have evidence that this was an OD and people in neighborhoods that have a lot of drug use still do have normal medicl emergencies.
If I'm wrong hope a doctor will correct me but this sounds pretty much like veering into overly confident do-gooder diagnosis mode, and dangerous.
OP did the right thing.
posted by ponie at 5:43 PM on November 21 [7 favorites]

I doubt you can decide to just give narcan to a stranger who has dropped his groceries and who might just be having a heart attack, diabetic reaction, whatever.

I'm not saying you should Narcan everyone, just that the possession of Narcan can make you more able to intervene when it is a drug overdose, as OP appeared reluctant to intervene on those potential grounds.
posted by corb at 5:51 PM on November 21

Right thing!!

When I worked at a retirement housing for independent seniors, we were told to call the fire department emergency number unless there was an obvious issue like major bleeding, stroke, seizure, etc. in which case we called direct to 911. Because the fire department was so close, they were the first responders anyway, and their people would be doing the stabilizing even if 911 had been called.

We called them first because they had the training to determine if an ambulance was needed, and thus potentially save a low-income senior an expensive ambulance ride to no good use. If an ambulance came on to the grounds and medical personnel put hands on anyone, you could bet that someone going to take a ride, whether or not they were hurt. The medical personnel were apologetic, but their regulations require that they transport, even if all they did was take a blood pressure. Even the ER doctors were disgusted by ambulance transports bringing in people that were obviously not having any distress.

There were numerous times that a senior would do a whoopsie and trip, whack themself on something and bleed--old skin is fragile and bleeds easily--but they would beg, literally beg, me not to call. It was such a relief to be able to reassure them that they wouldn't be in debit and to know that I wouldn't be responsible for failing to call in an emergency. You can bet we were all supporters for the local firemen's fund!

It might be worth it to find out if your local firemen do that type of response and what their number is.
posted by BlueHorse at 5:53 PM on November 21

I doubt you can decide to just give narcan to a stranger who has dropped his groceries

Naloxone does very little to a person who does not have opioids in their system so it’s not like you are going to kill someone this way but they probably won’t be happy about you sticking them with a needle/spraying stuff up their nose, and neither will someone who is merely nodding, and often neither will someone who has actually overdosed, in the first moments after waking up. With appropriate training and understanding of what you’re getting into I think it’s great if you want to be prepared to respond to an overdose, but do make sure you get that.
posted by atoxyl at 6:04 PM on November 21 [1 favorite]

I would not carry narcan around just so I could narcan a stranger. I’d run out of narcan really fast and the strangers would get mad at me for wrecking their high.

What? You don't give Narcan to people who are high, you give it to people who have overdosed and may die very soon. This is either an enormous misunderstanding of what Narcan is (which is why people above recommend taking a class), or a joke in extremely bad taste.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:19 PM on November 21 [4 favorites]

People getting mad at losing their high is a thing:
"The anger of the person who has been resuscitated is variously attributed to the naloxone causing them to lose their ‘high’, to feel that they have wasted their drugs or money, or to experience uncomfortable or painful withdrawal symptoms..."
posted by mpark at 9:56 PM on November 21 [6 favorites]

oneirodynia, I did not make a joke or misunderstand Narcan. I lived in an epicentre of a toxic drug crisis, and I frequently visit such areas. Eventually you stop investigating or even thinking twice about non-moving bodies and you live your life.
posted by shock muppet at 10:24 PM on November 21 [2 favorites]

You did something, which is a lot. Emergency services exist to help people who may be ill. I have no idea why or how the person got in that state, but your response was correct and helpful. Thanks for caring.
posted by theora55 at 11:02 PM on November 21 [3 favorites]

I understand that Narcan doesn't harm someone to give it if they were not overdosing and, if say, you're at a party and people were doing drugs and you thought someone was OD'ing it might be better to err on the side of saving them with Narcon. But it is dangerous to decide that a stranger who has dropped groceries and fallen to the ground is OD'ing just because they are in a drug-heavy area, and to give them narcan instead of calling 911 when they might be having a medical event that needs EMS.
People should not be diagnosing strangers out of context, for example I would never presume to think a stranger who had just clearly been in the middle of shopping and carrying groceries home had suddenly OD'd. OP, again, correct to call 911.
posted by ponie at 11:56 PM on November 21 [2 favorites]

There are all sorts of reasons someone might have collapsed like this, and some of the more serious include:

heart attack;

stroke;

epilepsy;

diabetic low blood sugar episode;

appendicitis where the appendix ruptured;

in someone with a uterus it could be an ectopic pregnancy.

Calling trained paramedics to do a proper assessment is better than administering Narcan - if it's a heart attack/stroke, every minute counts.

They say for heart attacks "time is heart muscle";

they say for strokes "time is brain."
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 12:10 AM on November 22 [2 favorites]

You say hey dude are you OK? Any response at all? Do you need help do you need an ambulance? Assess. But likely call.

I did this recently with a woman who was holding onto a fence in a parking lot in a strange way. I almost left but thought it looked like she could have even been beaten up or something so asked. Got into a convo of a sob story and wanted money, and she adamantly refused an ambulance so, my part was done. If she had been incoherent or unresponsive, I would have called 911.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:00 AM on November 22

Don't call the cops on people, even to help them. If he had in fact been a drug user that could have gotten him killed. Treat police like a loaded gun and don't point them at anything that you wouldn't want destroyed.
posted by jy4m at 6:47 AM on November 22 [2 favorites]

It sounds like the outcome of your call was positive, so nice work!

The only time I've called 911 on a stranger (after asking him if he wanted me to call first), I asked for am ambulance and instead I got the cops who roughed the guy up. So now I would be very reluctant to call 911. Is there a trick to calling paramedics and not getting cops instead, or is it just a question of geography?
posted by eraserbones at 6:48 AM on November 22

European first aid training also says safety first, then ask, then touch if unresponsive to talking, then call aid if necessary. (We have the benefit of somewhat less trigger happy police, and a lone unresponsive person would get an ambulance response.)
posted by I claim sanctuary at 8:57 AM on November 22