Federal government jobs during what feels like apocalyptic times?
November 18, 2024 6:30 AM Subscribe
I just received an offer for a federal government job. When I applied for the position months ago it seemed like an ideal job for me and I was very excited about the opportunity but now I'm scared and concerned about working for the federal government during what feels like apocalyptic times. If you had a federal job during the first TFG administration, what was it like and how did you survive?
I never had a government job and don't know anyone who had one so I don't know what to expect - will it still be (to a degree) business as usual for low-level employees or will it be a series of unpredictable nightmares? (if relevant, the position is with the Department of Treasury). If you worked for or are currently working for the fed govt, how did your work environment change back then and what do you expect for the next four years with Project 2025 and etc.? Is this something I'll be able to ride out (albeit with gritted teeth)?
I never had a government job and don't know anyone who had one so I don't know what to expect - will it still be (to a degree) business as usual for low-level employees or will it be a series of unpredictable nightmares? (if relevant, the position is with the Department of Treasury). If you worked for or are currently working for the fed govt, how did your work environment change back then and what do you expect for the next four years with Project 2025 and etc.? Is this something I'll be able to ride out (albeit with gritted teeth)?
I have zero experience in this realm, and so don't KNOW anything... but have a thought that might help people answer you.
While we can infer your feelings about the next administration from your post, what you don't mention is whether or not you've posted or otherwise publicized those feelings in any way whatsoever that the current administration might find and use against you. Honestly, I'd take that so far as to include any random humans that feel differently about the incumbent and might "tattle"...
But that's my trust level. I'd need job security more than I'd need four years of misery.
posted by stormyteal at 6:52 AM on November 18 [4 favorites]
While we can infer your feelings about the next administration from your post, what you don't mention is whether or not you've posted or otherwise publicized those feelings in any way whatsoever that the current administration might find and use against you. Honestly, I'd take that so far as to include any random humans that feel differently about the incumbent and might "tattle"...
But that's my trust level. I'd need job security more than I'd need four years of misery.
posted by stormyteal at 6:52 AM on November 18 [4 favorites]
I do not have a federal government job but my spouse worked for a federal agency in a career (non-political) position during the first Trump administration. It definitely varies from agency to agency. I would imagine parts of the Justice and Defense departments will be in meltdown mode. Treasury maybe not. Depending on what part of it you are in, if Trump's economic/fiscal agenda is basically corporatist, it might feel fairly similar to any other Republican administration. FWIW, my spouse worked in an agency that is typically Republican-friendly and they thought that the Trump political appointees they got were generally pretty good. But Trump definitely has more revenge vibes this time around, so maybe all bets are off.
posted by AndrewInDC at 6:56 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
posted by AndrewInDC at 6:56 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
My best friend works in a managerial position for one of the US departments (I will be vague as this is her job) and has done so for over a decade. She worked within the Trump Administration the first time. She's not happy about him being back in the saddle AGAIN, but again this is her job and it pays well. From what I understand for federal employees, you just keep your head down, do your job, and weather the storm. No one on her team is a Trump supporter but they are a government worker. The security, the pension, the insurance -- all of these things matter to her in terms of perks and also, she is really really good at her job. IIRC, her department is not one Trump would be interested in.
posted by Kitteh at 7:00 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 7:00 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
I did not and do not work for the US government, so feel free to ignore. However...
Theoretically the Trump 47 administration is going to be modeled closely after the Hungary/Orbán model. In that model, agencies that can offer political advantages are restaffed with true believers/loyalists and then tasked with remaking the orgs into supporting wings of the party. It's a model that attempts to attach the pervasive bureaucratic fascism of 20th century communist countries onto a nominally democratic model, entrenching the ruling party in much the same way as the Communist party infiltrated all aspects of the government. These agencies will then need to: produce information that supports the ruling party's viewpoints; enact/enforce policies that reflect these positions; and/or exact bureaucratic hassles/persecution against opposing parties & viewpoints/selected out-groups, all of this even if said agencies have previously traditionally been apolitical.
Maybe it means the labor statistics employees report need to say what the administration says they should say. Maybe it means the FCC should suddenly be way more involved in fines against supposed journalistic imbalance. Maybe it means the NOAA should cool it talking about climate change, even in context of hurricane season. Maybe they should even issue fewer warnings. Treasury? Hard to say.
We do not know: how serious this plan is (though best guess is: entirely serious); how quickly/thoroughly this can be enacted; which agencies will be targeted first and to which extent; which roles will be deemed critical to restaff and which will be considered low-level enough to simply be controlled from above. It's one thing to say you're going to use the Hungarian model and another thing to actually do that on a country more than 30x larger.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:21 AM on November 18 [13 favorites]
Theoretically the Trump 47 administration is going to be modeled closely after the Hungary/Orbán model. In that model, agencies that can offer political advantages are restaffed with true believers/loyalists and then tasked with remaking the orgs into supporting wings of the party. It's a model that attempts to attach the pervasive bureaucratic fascism of 20th century communist countries onto a nominally democratic model, entrenching the ruling party in much the same way as the Communist party infiltrated all aspects of the government. These agencies will then need to: produce information that supports the ruling party's viewpoints; enact/enforce policies that reflect these positions; and/or exact bureaucratic hassles/persecution against opposing parties & viewpoints/selected out-groups, all of this even if said agencies have previously traditionally been apolitical.
Maybe it means the labor statistics employees report need to say what the administration says they should say. Maybe it means the FCC should suddenly be way more involved in fines against supposed journalistic imbalance. Maybe it means the NOAA should cool it talking about climate change, even in context of hurricane season. Maybe they should even issue fewer warnings. Treasury? Hard to say.
We do not know: how serious this plan is (though best guess is: entirely serious); how quickly/thoroughly this can be enacted; which agencies will be targeted first and to which extent; which roles will be deemed critical to restaff and which will be considered low-level enough to simply be controlled from above. It's one thing to say you're going to use the Hungarian model and another thing to actually do that on a country more than 30x larger.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:21 AM on November 18 [13 favorites]
TL;DR for above: the previous Trump admin's model for government agencies was not the same as their anticipated new one, so that may not tell you much.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:32 AM on November 18 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:32 AM on November 18 [2 favorites]
a place to check would be the history of the fednews reddit You'll see what people were talking about during his last term
posted by Art_Pot at 7:44 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
posted by Art_Pot at 7:44 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
It varies. It varies depending on the agency. It varies depending on the unit within the agency. It varies depending on the position within the unit, both the level. It varies from month to month, or even day to day. And the experience in the last term is not necessarily predictive of the next term. I know that's not very helpful, but it's true.
However: You don't provide any details, but my intuition is that if you were going into a position that would be vulnerable, you probably wouldn't be asking this question, because you'd already know the answer. Treasury has 100,000 employees; the vast majority are not going to be directly affected, though the general environment might be, well, not upbeat. But the government needs good people. If you're a good person, please join.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:51 AM on November 18 [10 favorites]
However: You don't provide any details, but my intuition is that if you were going into a position that would be vulnerable, you probably wouldn't be asking this question, because you'd already know the answer. Treasury has 100,000 employees; the vast majority are not going to be directly affected, though the general environment might be, well, not upbeat. But the government needs good people. If you're a good person, please join.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:51 AM on November 18 [10 favorites]
I worked for the VA for two years during the prior Trump administration, in a low-level research position. Day to day, he had no impact on my job. The exception was that there were portraits of Trump and Pence in the lobby, and I hated having to walk past their smug faces every morning.
The bigger impact came when there were government shutdowns due to budget debate impasses. We were considered essential, so our roles remained funded, but it was stressful thinking about the potential of going without pay for an unknown length of time.
posted by bluloo at 7:56 AM on November 18 [6 favorites]
The bigger impact came when there were government shutdowns due to budget debate impasses. We were considered essential, so our roles remained funded, but it was stressful thinking about the potential of going without pay for an unknown length of time.
posted by bluloo at 7:56 AM on November 18 [6 favorites]
We've been focused on how the Trump 47 administration might fill roles or treat employees, but it also bears mention that Elon Musk has been put in charge of "efficiency" and Schedule F is likely to be reinstated.
As such, large scale, bordering on nonsensical layoffs with reduced/no compensation are also a possibility.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:14 AM on November 18 [5 favorites]
As such, large scale, bordering on nonsensical layoffs with reduced/no compensation are also a possibility.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:14 AM on November 18 [5 favorites]
As you no doubt know, getting a federal job is really hard. So as someone who has been applying to federal jobs for years now, I'd take it assuming 1) you aren't giving up a really good job to do so and 2) this won't radically disrupt your life in terms of moving a far distance, etc.
posted by coffeecat at 9:34 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 9:34 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
Trump wants to increase the political accountability of civil servants who make policy or get to apply their judgment to the enforcement of policy. If this a job under that heading, or will report to someone under that heading, it could become very different.
At least some people likely to influence the Trump administration want to cut back the federal government's role in the economy and delivery of public services significantly. If this is a job that regulates private sector businesses, or enforces regulations or manages services that could be devolved to the states to perform (or not, as they saw fit), that job is hypothetically vulnerable.
posted by MattD at 10:26 AM on November 18
At least some people likely to influence the Trump administration want to cut back the federal government's role in the economy and delivery of public services significantly. If this is a job that regulates private sector businesses, or enforces regulations or manages services that could be devolved to the states to perform (or not, as they saw fit), that job is hypothetically vulnerable.
posted by MattD at 10:26 AM on November 18
Trump wants to increase the political accountability of civil servants who make policy or get to apply their judgment to the enforcement of policy.
This is a very polite way of saying "bring back the spoils system and pack the civil service with loyal stooges".
posted by ryanshepard at 10:55 AM on November 18 [2 favorites]
This is a very polite way of saying "bring back the spoils system and pack the civil service with loyal stooges".
posted by ryanshepard at 10:55 AM on November 18 [2 favorites]
Taking a job with the US federal government today would be like taking a job at Twitter shortly before Musk took over.
We don’t know how it will play out, but that is Trump’s intention.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 11:23 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
We don’t know how it will play out, but that is Trump’s intention.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 11:23 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
If you are interested in the position and you liked the boss/team that you met, I would take the job. Usually there is a hiring freeze after administrations change and I’d expect it for this one.
As with any job, you might be asked to do things you don’t want to do or agree with morally. You always want to think about what is the line in the sand for you and have a back up plan.
Doing public service is a really impactful job. No one knows what will happen. My stance is if I feel like I can continue to do good in my job and improve communities, I will stay.
Also take what you read online, esp on Reddit fed forums, with a grain of salt. (From someone who does have a lot of experience in this space.)
posted by inevitability at 11:30 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
As with any job, you might be asked to do things you don’t want to do or agree with morally. You always want to think about what is the line in the sand for you and have a back up plan.
Doing public service is a really impactful job. No one knows what will happen. My stance is if I feel like I can continue to do good in my job and improve communities, I will stay.
Also take what you read online, esp on Reddit fed forums, with a grain of salt. (From someone who does have a lot of experience in this space.)
posted by inevitability at 11:30 AM on November 18 [3 favorites]
Based on what I know about government jobs, once you are past your probation you have a lot of job protections. Especially if you are in a union and I think there is a union for the Dept of Treasury. Government jobs also often have good benefits. So another way to think about this is, would this job be better for you than your other current options? If you take the job, are happy and successful, and nothing happens to your dept or to your job during the Trump administration, then that’s the best possible outcome. If you take the job and then are forced out or fired or something, at least you will have made some money and you now have experience in this sector. There are jobs in this sector in blue states, cities, and local government that you could then try to pivot to. Good luck!
posted by LittleLadybug at 11:48 AM on November 18
posted by LittleLadybug at 11:48 AM on November 18
I mentioned Schedule F above, but didn't explain it.
Essentially, Trump, near the end of his term, issued an executive order that would have created a new category of federal employees (the aforementioned "schedule F.") The order exempted certain positions “of a confidential, policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating character” from employment protections.
To put it plainly, he made previously non-political appointments into a new group of political appointments so that he could hire and fire at will and en masse, without protections for the employees.
Before Trump could put this into action, he lost the 2020 election. Biden overturned this. Trump says he will reinstate this order "on day one."
So please take any advisories of presumed job security with a grain of salt. One of the folks quoted in the linked article advised that 50,000 people laid off would be "more of a floor than a ceiling."
Could this be delayed, softened, abandoned, or made impossible to enforce? Maybe.
Is he going to try and do this, though? Almost certainly.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:56 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
Essentially, Trump, near the end of his term, issued an executive order that would have created a new category of federal employees (the aforementioned "schedule F.") The order exempted certain positions “of a confidential, policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating character” from employment protections.
To put it plainly, he made previously non-political appointments into a new group of political appointments so that he could hire and fire at will and en masse, without protections for the employees.
Before Trump could put this into action, he lost the 2020 election. Biden overturned this. Trump says he will reinstate this order "on day one."
So please take any advisories of presumed job security with a grain of salt. One of the folks quoted in the linked article advised that 50,000 people laid off would be "more of a floor than a ceiling."
Could this be delayed, softened, abandoned, or made impossible to enforce? Maybe.
Is he going to try and do this, though? Almost certainly.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:56 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
It depends on the agency. I would have no problem working for the Patent & Trademark Office but it would be a hard no on ICE, Homeland Security, etc. Same with the AG's office, Social Security, Department of Education. A friend who works at DOE is seriously considering jumping ship now.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 11:56 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
posted by tafetta, darling! at 11:56 AM on November 18 [1 favorite]
As someone who is looking into government jobs -- even being offered one is amazing to me because of how onerous the process is. I personally would just take the job and keep job hunting, and it's a lot easier to move within federal government once you're in it, but it also makes me wonder if you will also have to relocate with moving costs, and how that would factor into it.
posted by yueliang at 12:19 PM on November 18 [1 favorite]
posted by yueliang at 12:19 PM on November 18 [1 favorite]
I almost took a federal job that would have started in early 2016. I was so relieved after the election that fall that I wasn't in that job. Also, I was interacting a lot with a few federal government workers in professional context during a stretch from summer 2016 to summer 2017, and the difference in their demeanor, relaxation levels, stress, etc was incredibly noticeable to me as a colleague who didn't know them all that well and didn't discuss politics with them.
If I didn't have a job or was in a truly terrible situation, I would consider it, especially if it was in an agency I didn't think would get a lot of attention. But in general, I would not take that job if I had another job that was, say, lackluster. Lackluster is a lot better than what's coming.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:22 PM on November 18 [1 favorite]
If I didn't have a job or was in a truly terrible situation, I would consider it, especially if it was in an agency I didn't think would get a lot of attention. But in general, I would not take that job if I had another job that was, say, lackluster. Lackluster is a lot better than what's coming.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:22 PM on November 18 [1 favorite]
I work for the Social Security Administration and was there before and during the first Trump administration. The main difference was that management-labor relations got hostile with management trying to undo a lot of what had been negotiated, largely unsuccessfully. The day to day work did not change. The aforementioned schedule F issue had the potential to change job security expectations, but did not happen.
Going forward, I anticipate work from home will be reduced or eliminated, budgets will be smaller, and when it comes time to negotiate new contracts, it will be very ugly. Due to budget issues and reduction in work at home, the work will be more stressful and a lot of people close to retirement will go ahead and retire.
posted by pasici at 2:32 PM on November 18 [2 favorites]
Going forward, I anticipate work from home will be reduced or eliminated, budgets will be smaller, and when it comes time to negotiate new contracts, it will be very ugly. Due to budget issues and reduction in work at home, the work will be more stressful and a lot of people close to retirement will go ahead and retire.
posted by pasici at 2:32 PM on November 18 [2 favorites]
the government needs good people. If you're a good person, please join.
Mr. Know-it-some has it. If people of good conscience do not work for the government, the government will have no conscience. Working *under* an administration does not equal working *for* an administration: there are many, many career professionals in the federal government who take their jobs way more seriously than that.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 5:41 PM on November 18 [3 favorites]
Mr. Know-it-some has it. If people of good conscience do not work for the government, the government will have no conscience. Working *under* an administration does not equal working *for* an administration: there are many, many career professionals in the federal government who take their jobs way more seriously than that.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 5:41 PM on November 18 [3 favorites]
If you don't have a job now or have a job you don't like, take the offer - what do you have to lose? It's highly unlikely that any political action will filter all the way down the ranks, especially in something like Treasury. It might be different if it was, say, Education, because it's a clearly stated target.
As others have said, if you're a good person, take the job - governments everywhere need more good people working in them.
posted by dg at 7:44 PM on November 18 [1 favorite]
As others have said, if you're a good person, take the job - governments everywhere need more good people working in them.
posted by dg at 7:44 PM on November 18 [1 favorite]
Just found this in a WaPo chat:
I'm extremely worried for federal employees, because Trump clearly intends to go to war against what he calls the "deep state." Meaning, the dedicated, nonpolitical professionals who serve the American public in myriad ways.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:30 AM on November 20
I'm extremely worried for federal employees, because Trump clearly intends to go to war against what he calls the "deep state." Meaning, the dedicated, nonpolitical professionals who serve the American public in myriad ways.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:30 AM on November 20
Musk and Ramaswamy float ending remote work for federal employees and ‘large-scale firings’
God, if it's not bad enough to be laid off, how would you like to be fired by a group--Department of Governmental Efficiency--literally named after some asshole's favorite crypto (DOGE) as a joke.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:49 PM on November 20 [1 favorite]
God, if it's not bad enough to be laid off, how would you like to be fired by a group--Department of Governmental Efficiency--literally named after some asshole's favorite crypto (DOGE) as a joke.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:49 PM on November 20 [1 favorite]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
That said, take that info with a huge grain of salt because no one knows for sure. I would say, take the offer and if it presents problems, it's always easier to get another job when you have a job.
posted by donut_princess at 6:50 AM on November 18 [2 favorites]