Did I make a mistake?
October 19, 2024 5:27 PM Subscribe
I ended things with someone I really liked and I've been doubting myself ever since.
I dated this guy for just a couple months and I really liked him. He was attractive, kind, we had a lot in common, similar value systems... he really seemed like the whole package in a way? Except he was recently divorced and told me he wanted to take it slow. Fine. I knew it was a risk dating someone fresh off a divorce but with how awful online dating is why not give it a shot. It was honestly super refreshing dating someone that I actually had real feelings for because it's super rare for me to connect with people I met online.
Except he was flaky, and kind of distant. He seemed quick to cancel the whole time but I finally actually ended it when I didn't see him for three weeks. First he cancelled because his dog was a little under the weather (emphasis on a little). Then he went out of town for a week, which he does with some regularity because he works from home and loves to travel. Then when I was finally supposed to see him again he cancelled at the last minute after confirming our date because I had a lingering cough from when I had a cold two weeks earlier. I told him I was hardly sick but he still cancelled.
So... I ended it. We had already talked once because I got annoyed at him for cancelling and I said that it's super important to me that we see each other regularly, which he seemed to agree with only to cancel at the last second again. When we chatted about ending it he basically said that he genuinely does like me a lot and rattled off a list of things he likes about me, but he's been questioning if he's ready and he doesn't want to hurt me. He also said that he's really liked our slower pace but everything I want is valid and it's not fair to me to do this if he can't give me what I want. We agreed to table it and potentially revisit things in the future, if the time is more right. He said he'd text me occasionally but I haven't heard from him yet (it's been a little over three weeks).
But....I've been questioning it. I despise being on the apps. I thought he handled that conversation really well; he was empathetic and didn't get defensive. I think he just needed to move at a snail's pace. Maybe I needed to be more patient? Part of me thinks that a lot of the issue was circumstantial and we would have found a rhythm eventually. But the other part is like no, I stated my needs and put my foot down and walked away when he couldn't meet what I think were very fair expectations for two months of dating (I asked to see each other 1-2 times a week minimum). I struggle to assert my needs and I did the right thing here.
But.... I don't know. I'm bummed because it's so rare for me to actually click with someone and part of me hates that I just threw it away like that. I know he said he wants to not "close the door on this completely", but I still feel super skeptical that he'll ever come back around. I keep wanting to text him to say hi and just see what happens. But I don't want to get hurt chasing someone who's emotionally unavailable, either.
What do you think?
I dated this guy for just a couple months and I really liked him. He was attractive, kind, we had a lot in common, similar value systems... he really seemed like the whole package in a way? Except he was recently divorced and told me he wanted to take it slow. Fine. I knew it was a risk dating someone fresh off a divorce but with how awful online dating is why not give it a shot. It was honestly super refreshing dating someone that I actually had real feelings for because it's super rare for me to connect with people I met online.
Except he was flaky, and kind of distant. He seemed quick to cancel the whole time but I finally actually ended it when I didn't see him for three weeks. First he cancelled because his dog was a little under the weather (emphasis on a little). Then he went out of town for a week, which he does with some regularity because he works from home and loves to travel. Then when I was finally supposed to see him again he cancelled at the last minute after confirming our date because I had a lingering cough from when I had a cold two weeks earlier. I told him I was hardly sick but he still cancelled.
So... I ended it. We had already talked once because I got annoyed at him for cancelling and I said that it's super important to me that we see each other regularly, which he seemed to agree with only to cancel at the last second again. When we chatted about ending it he basically said that he genuinely does like me a lot and rattled off a list of things he likes about me, but he's been questioning if he's ready and he doesn't want to hurt me. He also said that he's really liked our slower pace but everything I want is valid and it's not fair to me to do this if he can't give me what I want. We agreed to table it and potentially revisit things in the future, if the time is more right. He said he'd text me occasionally but I haven't heard from him yet (it's been a little over three weeks).
But....I've been questioning it. I despise being on the apps. I thought he handled that conversation really well; he was empathetic and didn't get defensive. I think he just needed to move at a snail's pace. Maybe I needed to be more patient? Part of me thinks that a lot of the issue was circumstantial and we would have found a rhythm eventually. But the other part is like no, I stated my needs and put my foot down and walked away when he couldn't meet what I think were very fair expectations for two months of dating (I asked to see each other 1-2 times a week minimum). I struggle to assert my needs and I did the right thing here.
But.... I don't know. I'm bummed because it's so rare for me to actually click with someone and part of me hates that I just threw it away like that. I know he said he wants to not "close the door on this completely", but I still feel super skeptical that he'll ever come back around. I keep wanting to text him to say hi and just see what happens. But I don't want to get hurt chasing someone who's emotionally unavailable, either.
What do you think?
You were right to break things off. You wanted entirely different things. He wanted to maybe go on a few dates a month, and you wanted a serious relationship. It's fair to want what you want, and, you should listen when he tells you he won't be able to do it.
posted by hovey at 5:41 PM on October 19, 2024 [14 favorites]
posted by hovey at 5:41 PM on October 19, 2024 [14 favorites]
You did the right thing.
It sounds like he was finding excuses to cancel because he wasn't ready to date, or maybe he wasn't that into you.
I think it's normal for you to be questioning your decision because you did like him and nothing was obviously wrong. But you deserve to date someone who isn't finding excuses to cancel on you.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 5:50 PM on October 19, 2024 [2 favorites]
It sounds like he was finding excuses to cancel because he wasn't ready to date, or maybe he wasn't that into you.
I think it's normal for you to be questioning your decision because you did like him and nothing was obviously wrong. But you deserve to date someone who isn't finding excuses to cancel on you.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 5:50 PM on October 19, 2024 [2 favorites]
The thing with boundaries is that they don't magically make the other person different; they just help you define what you are willing to deal with in a relationship. You have needs, which are valid, to have a consistent serious dependable relationship. He has needs, which are valid, to keep things extremely light and flexible and not serious.
Neither of you is wrong, but it makes you incompatible.
posted by lapis at 5:51 PM on October 19, 2024 [37 favorites]
Neither of you is wrong, but it makes you incompatible.
posted by lapis at 5:51 PM on October 19, 2024 [37 favorites]
Except he was flaky, and kind of distant. He seemed quick to cancel the whole time but I finally actually ended it when I didn't see him for three weeks.
You deserve to be with someone who cherishes you as much as you cherish them.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:58 PM on October 19, 2024 [5 favorites]
You deserve to be with someone who cherishes you as much as you cherish them.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:58 PM on October 19, 2024 [5 favorites]
Twice weekly dates only two months in would be a lot for me, and it was a lot for this guy, but it will not be a lot for the right partner for you. What you want is very reasonable, and the right person for you will want that too and be capable of giving it to you.
(That said, even the right person for you might be cautious about illness especially as we head into the cooler months when covid and flu peak, and not be up for hanging out with you when you are symptomatic even if you're sure you're no longer contagious. If you find someone with whom things otherwise click better, you might try to give a little more grace around that specifically.)
posted by Stacey at 6:03 PM on October 19, 2024 [15 favorites]
(That said, even the right person for you might be cautious about illness especially as we head into the cooler months when covid and flu peak, and not be up for hanging out with you when you are symptomatic even if you're sure you're no longer contagious. If you find someone with whom things otherwise click better, you might try to give a little more grace around that specifically.)
posted by Stacey at 6:03 PM on October 19, 2024 [15 favorites]
He's an avoidant. Don't even bother trying with one of those. Every time you start to get a bit close, he wants "space."
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:09 PM on October 19, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:09 PM on October 19, 2024 [4 favorites]
I don't really agree with everyone, because I think these things could, actually, all be circumstantial. You haven't been dating very long at all, and he made it clear he wants to take it slow. But even without both of those things, I can tell you that I would stay home with my dog if I didn't think he was acting like himself. Even if the change was only "a little", because dogs can't tell us the problem, and a small thing can turn into a big thing unexpectedly. He's had a relationship with the dog, I'm guessing, a lot longer than he's known you.
Then he went out of town for a week. He didn't cancel, he just went out of town like he usually does, so you can't really count that one? I know it's disappointing, but did you expect him to stop going out of town?
Finally, you say you are never sick and yet you still have a cough which may or may not be something like Covid, and who knows what his relationship might be with that very scary virus (maybe he knows people who died or are suffering from long covid. Maybe he had a bad case himself). I'm just saying - it's unfortunate but sometimes a whole bunch of bad things happen in a row, and it isn't anyone's fault.
As you've probably found, it's hard to find someone with qualities you want and it sounds like this one has a lot of the qualities. Nobody is perfect, compromise is always required. I don't see flakiness from what you've written here.
Maybe now that you're finally stating your needs, you've taken it a little too far instead of maybe allowing the flexibility you also need for stuff that comes up and is important to the other person, even if it's not important to you. But that is just a guess. I'm not saying you were wrong, you get to choose what you think is right. I'm just giving another perspective on what you wrote.
posted by Glinn at 6:58 PM on October 19, 2024 [19 favorites]
Then he went out of town for a week. He didn't cancel, he just went out of town like he usually does, so you can't really count that one? I know it's disappointing, but did you expect him to stop going out of town?
Finally, you say you are never sick and yet you still have a cough which may or may not be something like Covid, and who knows what his relationship might be with that very scary virus (maybe he knows people who died or are suffering from long covid. Maybe he had a bad case himself). I'm just saying - it's unfortunate but sometimes a whole bunch of bad things happen in a row, and it isn't anyone's fault.
As you've probably found, it's hard to find someone with qualities you want and it sounds like this one has a lot of the qualities. Nobody is perfect, compromise is always required. I don't see flakiness from what you've written here.
Maybe now that you're finally stating your needs, you've taken it a little too far instead of maybe allowing the flexibility you also need for stuff that comes up and is important to the other person, even if it's not important to you. But that is just a guess. I'm not saying you were wrong, you get to choose what you think is right. I'm just giving another perspective on what you wrote.
posted by Glinn at 6:58 PM on October 19, 2024 [19 favorites]
This is one of those tricky ones where you think you want something but you can't be sure until you get it and see how you feel.
I said on your earlier post about this guy that it seems more that you're expecting a rapid pace more than that he's moving at a snail's pace, especially given the circumstances as described. And that's okay, as long as you end up finding a guy you're happy with who moves at your desired pace. It's reasonably likely from what you've said that this guy is simply not ready to get serious again so soon, so breaking up with him was at least a defensible choice, and anyway it is unlikely that you can reconnect after dumping him. But I would caution you not to confuse not wanting to do twice-a-week dates at six weeks on with being "flaky" or disrespectful. I presume your actual desire is to find a guy you like rather than find a guy who goes at a certain pace, so you shouldn't let the latter desire take the absolute lead in your decision-making.
(The Internet loves to talk about "asserting your needs" and so forth, but, though it might be great in a specific context, that's rarely inherently good. Boundaries are generally tools, not ends in themselves. So you might ask yourself: what is the value I read into a suitor moving at a brisk pace? Are there other ways to get that for yourself in a relationship if the suitor can't do that? Maybe there aren't, or maybe there are only ways this current fellow wouldn't have been able to do, either. But don't mistake the measure for the measured.)
posted by praemunire at 7:37 PM on October 19, 2024 [15 favorites]
I said on your earlier post about this guy that it seems more that you're expecting a rapid pace more than that he's moving at a snail's pace, especially given the circumstances as described. And that's okay, as long as you end up finding a guy you're happy with who moves at your desired pace. It's reasonably likely from what you've said that this guy is simply not ready to get serious again so soon, so breaking up with him was at least a defensible choice, and anyway it is unlikely that you can reconnect after dumping him. But I would caution you not to confuse not wanting to do twice-a-week dates at six weeks on with being "flaky" or disrespectful. I presume your actual desire is to find a guy you like rather than find a guy who goes at a certain pace, so you shouldn't let the latter desire take the absolute lead in your decision-making.
(The Internet loves to talk about "asserting your needs" and so forth, but, though it might be great in a specific context, that's rarely inherently good. Boundaries are generally tools, not ends in themselves. So you might ask yourself: what is the value I read into a suitor moving at a brisk pace? Are there other ways to get that for yourself in a relationship if the suitor can't do that? Maybe there aren't, or maybe there are only ways this current fellow wouldn't have been able to do, either. But don't mistake the measure for the measured.)
posted by praemunire at 7:37 PM on October 19, 2024 [15 favorites]
You guys are at different places in your life right now.
Timing is a bitch sometimes.
If you could continue with casual and not get emotionally invested but that doesn’t sound like you.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:40 PM on October 19, 2024 [3 favorites]
Timing is a bitch sometimes.
If you could continue with casual and not get emotionally invested but that doesn’t sound like you.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:40 PM on October 19, 2024 [3 favorites]
'a mistake is only a mistake if you don't learn from it' is something someone told me once & i think of this every time i hear the word. so, what are you learning?
I really liked him. He was attractive, kind, we had a lot in common, similar value systems...
cool!
it's super important to me that we see each other regularly ... he basically said that he genuinely does like me a lot and rattled off a list of things he likes about me, but he's been questioning if he's ready and he doesn't want to hurt me. He also said that he's really liked our slower pace but everything I want is valid
...
I stated my needs and put my foot down... I struggle to assert my needs and I did the right thing here
you did!
I keep wanting to text him to say hi and just see what happens
do it :) ok, that's me being puckish, as i am wont to do, but... you're basically telling the entire internet you like this guy. i think it's alright to text him & say 'hi'
divorce is tough. even breakups can be tough. i know after one relationship that was my longest relationship up to that point i told myself i'd rather be a hermit than go through that again. with marriage there's, like, all this legal stuff & such. anyway, i totally get that someone would want to take things slow
friendship is also cool. he doesn't have to be 'the one'. y'all can just text, talk, see each other sometimes perhaps, whatever. sounds like he's a fine person & you want to connect. so, that's why i say: do it
(that said, i also don't want you to be hurt. if it is difficult for you to interact & feels better to focus your energy elsewhere, please do that. with my exes whom i have no communication with, i totally respect their space, we have separate lives, etc.. with my exes whom i do communicate with, things are chill. like, we also have kind of separate lives & i also respect their space, but sometimes we talk, text, whatever...)
posted by HearHere at 9:53 PM on October 19, 2024 [1 favorite]
I really liked him. He was attractive, kind, we had a lot in common, similar value systems...
cool!
it's super important to me that we see each other regularly ... he basically said that he genuinely does like me a lot and rattled off a list of things he likes about me, but he's been questioning if he's ready and he doesn't want to hurt me. He also said that he's really liked our slower pace but everything I want is valid
...
I stated my needs and put my foot down... I struggle to assert my needs and I did the right thing here
you did!
I keep wanting to text him to say hi and just see what happens
do it :) ok, that's me being puckish, as i am wont to do, but... you're basically telling the entire internet you like this guy. i think it's alright to text him & say 'hi'
divorce is tough. even breakups can be tough. i know after one relationship that was my longest relationship up to that point i told myself i'd rather be a hermit than go through that again. with marriage there's, like, all this legal stuff & such. anyway, i totally get that someone would want to take things slow
friendship is also cool. he doesn't have to be 'the one'. y'all can just text, talk, see each other sometimes perhaps, whatever. sounds like he's a fine person & you want to connect. so, that's why i say: do it
(that said, i also don't want you to be hurt. if it is difficult for you to interact & feels better to focus your energy elsewhere, please do that. with my exes whom i have no communication with, i totally respect their space, we have separate lives, etc.. with my exes whom i do communicate with, things are chill. like, we also have kind of separate lives & i also respect their space, but sometimes we talk, text, whatever...)
posted by HearHere at 9:53 PM on October 19, 2024 [1 favorite]
I think every situation is different and there is anecdata out there for every outcome. But I will share that I approached my last relationship the same way you did. It was with a semi-recently divorced man who, I inferred, needed to move at a snail's pace. I was you in that I ended things with him a couple of months into it because of his inadequate behavior around scheduling and plans. Then I similarly regretted it -- I hated the apps, the communication he and I had around the issue seemed promising, and so I decided to give things another chance. In total, I accommodated what I perceived to be his needs for a year, and for a time it seemed like my "math" was right, and that things were getting into a good groove and he was starting to relax into a serious relationship with me. But, without going into the details about how and why it ended the second time, I will just say, that was a waste of my time and energy. The only reason I am glad I gave him a second chance was because knowing myself, if I had not, I might have regretted it for a long time, fantasizing about counterfactual scenarios and hypothetical possibilities. The way things went, I don't have to second-guess.
So, I guess, if you are like me, and prone to second-guessing, in the interest of avoiding rumination on "what might have been" you can give him another chance (assuming he even wants it -- I wouldn't necessarily take his calm affectionate demeanor at the end as a positive indicator; avoidant people can seem very communicative and open when they are no longer feeling trapped or pressured by a situation). But be prepared for the possibility that no snail will be slow enough for this man, and that even if you become even more patient than you were, and push your needs down even further than you did, that covert contract won't necessarily yield the outcome you want.
posted by virve at 10:44 PM on October 19, 2024 [4 favorites]
So, I guess, if you are like me, and prone to second-guessing, in the interest of avoiding rumination on "what might have been" you can give him another chance (assuming he even wants it -- I wouldn't necessarily take his calm affectionate demeanor at the end as a positive indicator; avoidant people can seem very communicative and open when they are no longer feeling trapped or pressured by a situation). But be prepared for the possibility that no snail will be slow enough for this man, and that even if you become even more patient than you were, and push your needs down even further than you did, that covert contract won't necessarily yield the outcome you want.
posted by virve at 10:44 PM on October 19, 2024 [4 favorites]
It looks like the issue was not just him wanting to take things slower than you but him repeatedly canceling your dates at the last minute.
The dog and the cough - okay. But in your last question you mention him canceling a few times before that, yes? And he wasn't too keen on texting for the three weeks you didn't see each other?
I don't know, I'd honestly find it exhausting to keep making space in my life and heart for a person who seemed so unethused about spending time with me.
I guess what I'm saying is, there's keeping things slow and there's being flaky. Canceling things repeatedly, and not even in a romantic context but also in a professional acquaintance or a friend, tells me you were not that keen on scheduling that meetup in the first place. And I'd hate to feel like someone's chore, you know?
So I'd really honestly think about how much you enjoyed dating him. Not just the days when the stars aligned and you actually met up, but the days in between. If you did not enjoy it then, do you think you'd enjoy it now?
posted by M. at 1:55 AM on October 20, 2024 [5 favorites]
The dog and the cough - okay. But in your last question you mention him canceling a few times before that, yes? And he wasn't too keen on texting for the three weeks you didn't see each other?
I don't know, I'd honestly find it exhausting to keep making space in my life and heart for a person who seemed so unethused about spending time with me.
I guess what I'm saying is, there's keeping things slow and there's being flaky. Canceling things repeatedly, and not even in a romantic context but also in a professional acquaintance or a friend, tells me you were not that keen on scheduling that meetup in the first place. And I'd hate to feel like someone's chore, you know?
So I'd really honestly think about how much you enjoyed dating him. Not just the days when the stars aligned and you actually met up, but the days in between. If you did not enjoy it then, do you think you'd enjoy it now?
posted by M. at 1:55 AM on October 20, 2024 [5 favorites]
You weren’t seeing him before you broke it off either, not much anyway, so you didn’t lose anything except of what you were imagining a future could be. Now you’ve cleared a space for someone who wants to spend time with you. You did the right thing.
posted by waving at 2:44 AM on October 20, 2024 [11 favorites]
posted by waving at 2:44 AM on October 20, 2024 [11 favorites]
When I was in a relationship with someone with CPTSD I watched a number of videos about it from this lady on YouTube. One concept that stuck with me because it resonated with my own 'stuff' is what she rather inelegantly calls 'crapfitting'. Essentially, that is the practice of entering a relationship and jettisoning one's known needs/preferences/expectations, adapting to match what the partner is bringing to the table, even if that is unhealthy or insufficient.
I think a lot of us can relate to that. I bring it up because there are signs of it in your question. I think you did a good job of knowing and communicating your needs, and I don't think you should undo that because of how (truly) exhausting the apps are and how (truly, especially) hard it is to let go of something that seemed promising in so many ways.
This is a good guy who isn't ready. He is the pair of shoes that is the perfect style and color and material, a half size too small. You already decided not to buy the shoes. Good. Don't go back to the store.
posted by wormtales at 6:06 AM on October 20, 2024 [10 favorites]
I think a lot of us can relate to that. I bring it up because there are signs of it in your question. I think you did a good job of knowing and communicating your needs, and I don't think you should undo that because of how (truly) exhausting the apps are and how (truly, especially) hard it is to let go of something that seemed promising in so many ways.
This is a good guy who isn't ready. He is the pair of shoes that is the perfect style and color and material, a half size too small. You already decided not to buy the shoes. Good. Don't go back to the store.
posted by wormtales at 6:06 AM on October 20, 2024 [10 favorites]
Totally understandable that you’re second guessing things with this guy. You liked him and saw good qualities in him. It’s possible that the divorce made him more detached then he was previously
But regardless I do agree with others here who say there’s a difference between someone wanting to take it slow and someone being flaky, aloof, or detached. Often times this can unfortunately mean they might not be that into you. Seeing someone a couple times a week is perfectly reasonable. Wanting them not to cancel a lot is very reasonable. Communication is the root of all relationships. People who are distant or aloof can be painfully hard to communicate with.
Is it possible that things could work out with this guy? Perhaps. But for me, he would have to take the initiative to contact you and show interest. Otherwise it’s probably best to cut your losses.
posted by ljs30 at 6:49 AM on October 20, 2024 [2 favorites]
But regardless I do agree with others here who say there’s a difference between someone wanting to take it slow and someone being flaky, aloof, or detached. Often times this can unfortunately mean they might not be that into you. Seeing someone a couple times a week is perfectly reasonable. Wanting them not to cancel a lot is very reasonable. Communication is the root of all relationships. People who are distant or aloof can be painfully hard to communicate with.
Is it possible that things could work out with this guy? Perhaps. But for me, he would have to take the initiative to contact you and show interest. Otherwise it’s probably best to cut your losses.
posted by ljs30 at 6:49 AM on October 20, 2024 [2 favorites]
Obviously YMMV but for me: You were absolutely right to end it. I've been there and gave too many passes to someone. We can make reasons why this or that reluctant behavior makes sense for the beginning of a relationship...but then you keep it going, always discussing their cancellations and why it was ok or not, for months and years, and as it goes on there are similar issues all along, other ways that the person can't really be fully there. One day you look at them and realize they're not going to be able to make the leap into it with you, even if they've been with you in some way for 3 years.
Is it because he's recently divorced? Maybe. Is it WHY he is divorced - because he doesn't ever go all in? Maybe? who knows - of course I don't know, but the point is, we ladies have to stop giving reasons for things that might change later.
All you know is that you were already chasing him when you want someone shouting your name from the rooftops and, when hearing you have a cough, bringing you soup.
posted by ponie at 7:27 AM on October 20, 2024 [4 favorites]
Is it because he's recently divorced? Maybe. Is it WHY he is divorced - because he doesn't ever go all in? Maybe? who knows - of course I don't know, but the point is, we ladies have to stop giving reasons for things that might change later.
All you know is that you were already chasing him when you want someone shouting your name from the rooftops and, when hearing you have a cough, bringing you soup.
posted by ponie at 7:27 AM on October 20, 2024 [4 favorites]
This was one of the healthiest and most self-aware relationship posts I've seen. You should be proud of how clear your head is, and how perceptive and fair you have been and are still being! And, honestly, so should he.
The main bad behaviour I see is breaking dates, especially after confirming them. That's not cool, and you're right to not tolerate it.
You have needs and desires, and no one person will meet them all. The same is true for everyone (or so I keep reading). Maybe, in whatever way works for you, you can figure out if there's a place for him in your life.
Not the place you imagined, but with full awareness of how he is now (not how you hope he might change) you could truly consider it. Are there other ways to fulfill your own needs? Can they be done solo or with other partners (platonic or romantic or sexual)?
Give yourself free reign to imagine a life where you are not frustrated, and imagine if there's a path to successfully and ethically build that life.
You don't have to follow through on any of it!!
But if you do come up with something that sounds good, then you have something to consider and maybe eventually talk about.
He doesn't need to be involved in any of these steps. This is about you, and your own precious life that doesn't need to follow anyone else's script!
posted by Acari at 7:47 AM on October 20, 2024 [3 favorites]
The main bad behaviour I see is breaking dates, especially after confirming them. That's not cool, and you're right to not tolerate it.
You have needs and desires, and no one person will meet them all. The same is true for everyone (or so I keep reading). Maybe, in whatever way works for you, you can figure out if there's a place for him in your life.
Not the place you imagined, but with full awareness of how he is now (not how you hope he might change) you could truly consider it. Are there other ways to fulfill your own needs? Can they be done solo or with other partners (platonic or romantic or sexual)?
Give yourself free reign to imagine a life where you are not frustrated, and imagine if there's a path to successfully and ethically build that life.
You don't have to follow through on any of it!!
But if you do come up with something that sounds good, then you have something to consider and maybe eventually talk about.
He doesn't need to be involved in any of these steps. This is about you, and your own precious life that doesn't need to follow anyone else's script!
posted by Acari at 7:47 AM on October 20, 2024 [3 favorites]
A similar thing happened to me with a guy going through a divorce. After a month of plausible cancellations I said "Look what kind of relationship are you hoping for. I don't want to be with someone I see once a month. It's fine if you do want that, but not with me so I'm going to keep dating and looking for someone who wants a lot more." The guy panicked and un-cancelled and arranged a fancy date. I felt good about how that went at the time.
But guess what, he was unable to commit when the time came, the divorce was long over, and we had a similar conversation about much higher stakes a year later. Then I broke up. I could have saved myself a year and a half.
posted by Tim Bucktooth at 8:59 AM on October 20, 2024 [3 favorites]
But guess what, he was unable to commit when the time came, the divorce was long over, and we had a similar conversation about much higher stakes a year later. Then I broke up. I could have saved myself a year and a half.
posted by Tim Bucktooth at 8:59 AM on October 20, 2024 [3 favorites]
You found a guy who was PERFECT! Naturally, you regret letting him go.
You found a guy who was not available. You never actually had him.
There is a reason you walked away, and that reason has not changed. This guy is not looking for what you are looking for.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:48 AM on October 20, 2024 [5 favorites]
You found a guy who was not available. You never actually had him.
There is a reason you walked away, and that reason has not changed. This guy is not looking for what you are looking for.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:48 AM on October 20, 2024 [5 favorites]
The most important factors at the start of a successful relationship are that it has to be more or less the right time and place in everybody's life, enough that they can show up and be their whole selves.
It's just not, for him. He's either not recovered/re-oriented from the divorce OR it's one of the reasons for the divorce and in either case that's not your problem to fix.
Chronic last-minute cancellers are doing it out of anxiety (unless they're just shitheads who got a 'better' offer), for the most part. He's trying to date too soon, or without doing the necessary introspection first, and he's not handling it well.
It sucks, but you can't fix this.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:56 AM on October 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
It's just not, for him. He's either not recovered/re-oriented from the divorce OR it's one of the reasons for the divorce and in either case that's not your problem to fix.
Chronic last-minute cancellers are doing it out of anxiety (unless they're just shitheads who got a 'better' offer), for the most part. He's trying to date too soon, or without doing the necessary introspection first, and he's not handling it well.
It sucks, but you can't fix this.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:56 AM on October 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
I remember your previous post, and felt like you were maybe being overly rigid then.
I agree here with what Glinn wrote above most of all. I'll add that it seems like he's been honest and above-board with you; he's not canceled for manipulative or dishonest or even I-need-distance reasons. And if you found yourself in a more established relationship with him, the dog thing would have turned into "can we stay in with the dog instead of go out?".
It's really hard to give things the space and faith to establish themselves, especially when disappointment abounds. But it seems like this one might be worth erring on the side of giving it some more time to see.
posted by Dashy at 10:01 AM on October 20, 2024 [3 favorites]
I agree here with what Glinn wrote above most of all. I'll add that it seems like he's been honest and above-board with you; he's not canceled for manipulative or dishonest or even I-need-distance reasons. And if you found yourself in a more established relationship with him, the dog thing would have turned into "can we stay in with the dog instead of go out?".
It's really hard to give things the space and faith to establish themselves, especially when disappointment abounds. But it seems like this one might be worth erring on the side of giving it some more time to see.
posted by Dashy at 10:01 AM on October 20, 2024 [3 favorites]
Is he coming back to you and asking for another chance? If so, it might be that he's just been hesitant about getting too involved and has realized he made a mistake with you. Although I think you made the right decision to end things when you weren't getting what you were looking for, it could be worth giving it another go since you continue to miss him.
But, given that you don't mention him contacting you, I suspect that he's just not available right now, for whatever reason. You deserve someone enthusiastic about spending time with you, and it sounds like he's just not that person. I get that it's. hard to let go of something that seemed like it could be pretty good in many ways, especially since dating and the apps suck so hard, but unless he also wants it, the relationship you were hoping for just won't exist.
Good for you for having your own back on this. Sometimes it's not easy, but you are on the right runway. The right guy will seek out your company, not avoid it. He's out there, and you deserve him.
posted by rpfields at 12:02 PM on October 20, 2024 [2 favorites]
But, given that you don't mention him contacting you, I suspect that he's just not available right now, for whatever reason. You deserve someone enthusiastic about spending time with you, and it sounds like he's just not that person. I get that it's. hard to let go of something that seemed like it could be pretty good in many ways, especially since dating and the apps suck so hard, but unless he also wants it, the relationship you were hoping for just won't exist.
Good for you for having your own back on this. Sometimes it's not easy, but you are on the right runway. The right guy will seek out your company, not avoid it. He's out there, and you deserve him.
posted by rpfields at 12:02 PM on October 20, 2024 [2 favorites]
It really stings to meet a lovely person at the wrong time. But it seems pretty clear this guy isn't at a point where he can give you the time and attention you're looking for. And with frequent travel on top of just life in general, it doesn't seem likely that he would be any time soon.
The words you chose to describe his behavior indicate to me that he didn't leave you feeling valued. There are lots of people in my life (sometimes including my partner) who I can't see as much as I want to, but we have other ways of showing we value each other. If you've only got "going on dates on a very regular schedule" as your sole metric for feeling valued, expanding that would be worth some reflection. But my guess is that if this guy was making an evident effort on other fronts, you wouldn't have been so frustrated with this extended spell of bad scheduling luck.
If my read on that is accurate, I don't see that texting him is likely to do you a lot of good.
posted by EvaDestruction at 12:54 PM on October 20, 2024 [2 favorites]
The words you chose to describe his behavior indicate to me that he didn't leave you feeling valued. There are lots of people in my life (sometimes including my partner) who I can't see as much as I want to, but we have other ways of showing we value each other. If you've only got "going on dates on a very regular schedule" as your sole metric for feeling valued, expanding that would be worth some reflection. But my guess is that if this guy was making an evident effort on other fronts, you wouldn't have been so frustrated with this extended spell of bad scheduling luck.
If my read on that is accurate, I don't see that texting him is likely to do you a lot of good.
posted by EvaDestruction at 12:54 PM on October 20, 2024 [2 favorites]
I mean you can try to contact him and see if he wants to start things up again, but you can be sure it'll be second verse, same as the first." And potentially a little bit louder, a little bit worse. He'll have or find reasons to cancel on you. He'll still go out of town. He'll still see you once every two or three weeks because that's all he's capable of giving you. He's already told you "everything I want is valid and it's not fair to me to do this if he can't give me what I want." He can't give you what you want. It's a sad reality that there can be really amazing people out there, but if they can't give you what you want, you have to move on for your own sanity. Compatibility is not only interests, values and sex, it's also wanting the same things relationship-wise and being available time and energy-wise.
And I get it - it's either this, or the apps, right? I don't know what else to tell you other than to become really comfortable with the idea of being single (if you're not already). If you chafe at that idea, it's worth digging into why. There's nothing wrong with being single (despite what society says), and being comfortable with being single doesn't mean you never want to be in serious relationship. I say to become comfortable with being single because then it's way easier to move on from people that don't fit into your life well. Potential partners should add to your life, not give you anxiety, stress and frustration.
Some specific points: honestly I think "recently divorced" is a red flag and you should treat it as one going forward. Of course #Notalldivorcedpeople. Again, people can be lovely, but they can also still be figuring things out and that's not fair to you. You already knew it was a risk as well - so you took the risk and this is how it played out. So now you know. It's unfortunate, but the important thing is to learn something from it.
Reading your second paragraph, I'm imagining a big flashing neon sign that says "INCOMPATIBLE." Maybe sometimes people have good reasons to cancel. But if it keeps happening? Then you have to see it for what it is - this is someone that will frequently cancel on you. Who knows if it's because they don't really like you or they're avoidant or they have a chaotic life or whatever - it doesn't matter. They will cancel frequently on you and you're either ok with it or not. Obviously you're not and that's important to know and honour that. Don't make yourself ok with something if you're not ok with it.
It seems like you think his dog being sick wasn't that big of a deal and therefore he shouldn't have cancelled. Similarly, you getting over a cough wasn't a reason to cancel to you but for him it was. So this is a big incompatibility. Him being away frequently also doesn't work for you.
It's totally ok to want to see him more often - but that just doesn't work for him. It's nothing against you, you both aren't singing from the same songbook. There's nothing to work out here; you're both different in this important aspect. Despite all the other commonalities which I know is super frustrating. It's easy to think "He's so great! If only he wasn't like this" but again that's the reality and he won't change.
It totally makes sense that you ended it and I would have done the same (and have done, in the past) because it's just too frustrating.
>he's been questioning if he's ready and he doesn't want to hurt me.
Again, this is why recently divorced is a bit of a red flag for me. They're not bad people and good for them for getting out of a relationship that wasn't working. It's just that you don't know if you're ready to date until you are, and you don't want to make your process someone else's problem. That doesn't mean never date, but that people have to be honest with themselves with where they're at. It doesn't seem like he totally was and despite all his loveliness, this is not a lovely thing. I've seen so many times in r/datingoverthirty this story:"I got divorced fairly recently, decided to try out the apps, met someone awesome; they want to get more serious and I'm not ready so now we have to break up." It really sucks!
>He said he'd text me occasionally
This could mean anything so please don't hold your breath waiting for his texts. I get that you're hoping to hear from him cuz you really liked him, but you have to move on. And I don't think it'd be healthy for you to stay in contact. Why do that? He was already breadcrumbing you so now it'd be breadcrumbing turned up times 10.
>I despise being on the apps.
Have you heard of Burned Haystack Dating Method? If not, Google it. I first heard about it on askmefi and the founder teaches women how to use critical discourse analysis on dating profiles to understand what men are REALLY saying. The idea is that you burn through all the shitty and meh profiles to find the good ones. Maybe you're already doing that but have a look at it anyway.
>Maybe I needed to be more patient?
You would have compromised yourself so much and it would have driven you crazy to the point it wasn't worth it. virve's comment provides a cautionary tale. Don't make yourself into a human bonsai for someone else.
>I just threw it away like that.
You didn't throw it away. You walked away from something that wasn't working for you and that's a good thing, even if it's sad and hard and you're second guessing yourself. You honoured yourself and your needs, so you should pat yourself on the back for that.
>I still feel super skeptical that he'll ever come back around.
Me too. I wouldn't hold out hope for it. You need to.move on.
>I keep wanting to text him to say hi and just see what happens.
You already know what will happen. It'll be more of the same, friend. Remember how frustrated and annoyed you were when he kept cancelling and not seeing you - it will be more of that.
Honestly, if anything, I'd message him in a year. If you still remember him by that point. Maybe that seems long, but a year goes by so fast now.
Some videos I've watched recently that I hope will help:
On dating being a weeding out process and having someone recognize your value:
https://youtu.be/a2Jaq8937J0?si=7a8KgF26OWs5YQ0y
How Maria the Matchmaker met her husband 52:50: https://youtu.be/lGRnaWySoUw?si=M76pI3Zs3HFGyPvM she asked her friends when they were meeting with their other friends to invite her as well. She met one of her friends' friends and they hit it off and eventually got married. (Note: not saying you want to get married (and don't be turned off by the video title either) but I thought it was a great way to meet people who have similar values as you - if they're already friends with your friends. Listen to the whole episode - it's so good.)
posted by foxjacket at 3:43 PM on October 20, 2024 [4 favorites]
And I get it - it's either this, or the apps, right? I don't know what else to tell you other than to become really comfortable with the idea of being single (if you're not already). If you chafe at that idea, it's worth digging into why. There's nothing wrong with being single (despite what society says), and being comfortable with being single doesn't mean you never want to be in serious relationship. I say to become comfortable with being single because then it's way easier to move on from people that don't fit into your life well. Potential partners should add to your life, not give you anxiety, stress and frustration.
Some specific points: honestly I think "recently divorced" is a red flag and you should treat it as one going forward. Of course #Notalldivorcedpeople. Again, people can be lovely, but they can also still be figuring things out and that's not fair to you. You already knew it was a risk as well - so you took the risk and this is how it played out. So now you know. It's unfortunate, but the important thing is to learn something from it.
Reading your second paragraph, I'm imagining a big flashing neon sign that says "INCOMPATIBLE." Maybe sometimes people have good reasons to cancel. But if it keeps happening? Then you have to see it for what it is - this is someone that will frequently cancel on you. Who knows if it's because they don't really like you or they're avoidant or they have a chaotic life or whatever - it doesn't matter. They will cancel frequently on you and you're either ok with it or not. Obviously you're not and that's important to know and honour that. Don't make yourself ok with something if you're not ok with it.
It seems like you think his dog being sick wasn't that big of a deal and therefore he shouldn't have cancelled. Similarly, you getting over a cough wasn't a reason to cancel to you but for him it was. So this is a big incompatibility. Him being away frequently also doesn't work for you.
It's totally ok to want to see him more often - but that just doesn't work for him. It's nothing against you, you both aren't singing from the same songbook. There's nothing to work out here; you're both different in this important aspect. Despite all the other commonalities which I know is super frustrating. It's easy to think "He's so great! If only he wasn't like this" but again that's the reality and he won't change.
It totally makes sense that you ended it and I would have done the same (and have done, in the past) because it's just too frustrating.
>he's been questioning if he's ready and he doesn't want to hurt me.
Again, this is why recently divorced is a bit of a red flag for me. They're not bad people and good for them for getting out of a relationship that wasn't working. It's just that you don't know if you're ready to date until you are, and you don't want to make your process someone else's problem. That doesn't mean never date, but that people have to be honest with themselves with where they're at. It doesn't seem like he totally was and despite all his loveliness, this is not a lovely thing. I've seen so many times in r/datingoverthirty this story:"I got divorced fairly recently, decided to try out the apps, met someone awesome; they want to get more serious and I'm not ready so now we have to break up." It really sucks!
>He said he'd text me occasionally
This could mean anything so please don't hold your breath waiting for his texts. I get that you're hoping to hear from him cuz you really liked him, but you have to move on. And I don't think it'd be healthy for you to stay in contact. Why do that? He was already breadcrumbing you so now it'd be breadcrumbing turned up times 10.
>I despise being on the apps.
Have you heard of Burned Haystack Dating Method? If not, Google it. I first heard about it on askmefi and the founder teaches women how to use critical discourse analysis on dating profiles to understand what men are REALLY saying. The idea is that you burn through all the shitty and meh profiles to find the good ones. Maybe you're already doing that but have a look at it anyway.
>Maybe I needed to be more patient?
You would have compromised yourself so much and it would have driven you crazy to the point it wasn't worth it. virve's comment provides a cautionary tale. Don't make yourself into a human bonsai for someone else.
>I just threw it away like that.
You didn't throw it away. You walked away from something that wasn't working for you and that's a good thing, even if it's sad and hard and you're second guessing yourself. You honoured yourself and your needs, so you should pat yourself on the back for that.
>I still feel super skeptical that he'll ever come back around.
Me too. I wouldn't hold out hope for it. You need to.move on.
>I keep wanting to text him to say hi and just see what happens.
You already know what will happen. It'll be more of the same, friend. Remember how frustrated and annoyed you were when he kept cancelling and not seeing you - it will be more of that.
Honestly, if anything, I'd message him in a year. If you still remember him by that point. Maybe that seems long, but a year goes by so fast now.
Some videos I've watched recently that I hope will help:
On dating being a weeding out process and having someone recognize your value:
https://youtu.be/a2Jaq8937J0?si=7a8KgF26OWs5YQ0y
How Maria the Matchmaker met her husband 52:50: https://youtu.be/lGRnaWySoUw?si=M76pI3Zs3HFGyPvM she asked her friends when they were meeting with their other friends to invite her as well. She met one of her friends' friends and they hit it off and eventually got married. (Note: not saying you want to get married (and don't be turned off by the video title either) but I thought it was a great way to meet people who have similar values as you - if they're already friends with your friends. Listen to the whole episode - it's so good.)
posted by foxjacket at 3:43 PM on October 20, 2024 [4 favorites]
He is DEFINITELY not that into you. Now, it's possible that he's as into you as he can be given his personality ... but that's just a personality that isn't going to be into any woman.
With rare exceptions, recently divorced guys have are very NOT-recently lacking in a satisfying love life. (You don't get divorced overnight.) They are AVID about anyone they are into.
If his dog was too sick to be left alone ... he would have invited you over.
If you were too sick to be indoors with by his standards (which is already a little weird), he would have offered to bring you hot chicken soup in a Thermos and drink it with you on a park bench.
Going out of town for a week at a time by himself, repeatedly, just because, is something you don't do when you're dating someone you're into.
posted by MattD at 7:29 PM on October 20, 2024 [6 favorites]
With rare exceptions, recently divorced guys have are very NOT-recently lacking in a satisfying love life. (You don't get divorced overnight.) They are AVID about anyone they are into.
If his dog was too sick to be left alone ... he would have invited you over.
If you were too sick to be indoors with by his standards (which is already a little weird), he would have offered to bring you hot chicken soup in a Thermos and drink it with you on a park bench.
Going out of town for a week at a time by himself, repeatedly, just because, is something you don't do when you're dating someone you're into.
posted by MattD at 7:29 PM on October 20, 2024 [6 favorites]
Wanting to move slowly is one thing. Canceling on someone you're dating multiple times at the last minute (as you outlined in your previous question) is disrespectful and indicitative of unavailability. . You did the right thing.
posted by bearette at 4:24 AM on October 21, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by bearette at 4:24 AM on October 21, 2024 [2 favorites]
The reason you ended it is that, even if you liked how it felt to be with him, you didn't like the way it felt to be in this relationship. It made you feel unsure, anxious, annoyed. It made you second-guess yourself and him. You don't want to get back into a situation where you continue to feel that way, and the fact that it's good when you're actually together doesn't remedy the fact that the relationship overall felt crappy to you. I'm not going to pass judgment on who is right or wrong about cancelling for illness or frequency of early dates, nor am I going to speculate about whether this is related to his divorce or just a mismatch of personalities and wants. The point is that if it hurts when you go like this, you stop doing it. You did the right thing.
posted by decathecting at 10:58 AM on October 21, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by decathecting at 10:58 AM on October 21, 2024 [2 favorites]
You did the right thing! He’d been Soft Rejecting you for several weeks prior.
What do I mean by Soft Rejecting you? Here’s you about him the month prior to this question: “He's canceled at the last minute a couple of other times before and it almost felt like he was making excuses and just didn't want to see me.” That behavior was him ending your romantic interaction.
Hindsight being 20/20, that behavior was the time to quiet quit all interactions with him by blocking and deleting him. Getting faster at Leaving When His Energy Changes and continuing to date other men will get you a higher quality interaction and closer to a secure commitment. This is also why the wisest cishet women do not online date recently divorced cishet men - so many of them have this exact weird energy.
Someone above mentioned “crapfitting” which is a useful term by “Crappy Childhood Fairy” Anna Runkle - and she deserves credit for that. Her work is awesome, she has wonderful YouTube videos that are worth your time and will help you do less when it comes to your inclination to chase uninterested cishet men. Stop Dating Men Who Won’t Marry You is a good one of hers.
posted by edithkeeler at 3:04 AM on November 26, 2024 [1 favorite]
What do I mean by Soft Rejecting you? Here’s you about him the month prior to this question: “He's canceled at the last minute a couple of other times before and it almost felt like he was making excuses and just didn't want to see me.” That behavior was him ending your romantic interaction.
Hindsight being 20/20, that behavior was the time to quiet quit all interactions with him by blocking and deleting him. Getting faster at Leaving When His Energy Changes and continuing to date other men will get you a higher quality interaction and closer to a secure commitment. This is also why the wisest cishet women do not online date recently divorced cishet men - so many of them have this exact weird energy.
Someone above mentioned “crapfitting” which is a useful term by “Crappy Childhood Fairy” Anna Runkle - and she deserves credit for that. Her work is awesome, she has wonderful YouTube videos that are worth your time and will help you do less when it comes to your inclination to chase uninterested cishet men. Stop Dating Men Who Won’t Marry You is a good one of hers.
posted by edithkeeler at 3:04 AM on November 26, 2024 [1 favorite]
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posted by bookworm4125 at 5:34 PM on October 19, 2024 [12 favorites]