Does work pay for childcare while you're traveling? Tell me about it.
October 14, 2024 11:13 AM Subscribe
My small, all-remote, nonprofit workplace has an annual in-person gathering, and it has become clear that some people aren't able to attend because of family commitments. Help us fix that.
We all get together once a year for a week (usually we arrive Sunday, leave the following Saturday) for a mixture of structured social activities, unstructured hangout time, and some more work-focused meetings and presentations. You get paid for a full week of work, plus for travel time. Lodging and airfare are covered, and there is a per diem to cover food. It's fairly low-key, and attendance is not mandatory.
People are allowed to bring family, and their lodging is covered, but their transportation and food are not. At the most recent gathering, one employee brought her husband and their one-year-old child; her husband was able to take the time off work, and he did socialize with everybody else, but was mainly there as childcare.
And therein lies the source of the question. There have been a few instances of people who are unable to attend because of childcare commitments. I have been tasked with researching how other companies handle this sort of thing. It seems that there are different options:
My questions are:
We all get together once a year for a week (usually we arrive Sunday, leave the following Saturday) for a mixture of structured social activities, unstructured hangout time, and some more work-focused meetings and presentations. You get paid for a full week of work, plus for travel time. Lodging and airfare are covered, and there is a per diem to cover food. It's fairly low-key, and attendance is not mandatory.
People are allowed to bring family, and their lodging is covered, but their transportation and food are not. At the most recent gathering, one employee brought her husband and their one-year-old child; her husband was able to take the time off work, and he did socialize with everybody else, but was mainly there as childcare.
And therein lies the source of the question. There have been a few instances of people who are unable to attend because of childcare commitments. I have been tasked with researching how other companies handle this sort of thing. It seems that there are different options:
- Look for places for the retreat that have childcare and subsidize travel costs for kids.
- Subsidize travel costs for kids and a caregiver that you bring with you.
- Subsidize people in paying for alternative childcare at home.
- Other...?
My questions are:
- Does your company have a policy around this kind of thing? If so, please describe how it works.
- Are there other options for how such a policy could work that I'm not thinking of?
Is it possible that some people are stating that their reason for not coming is family commitments, but they're actually not coming because of concerns about COVID risk and travel, for instance? Some large proportion of work-related in-person events I've attended in the past 4 years have had some people test positive for COVID. At two of them, I was one of the people who did. It sucked to have to quarantine in a hotel, have people judge me for getting sick, etc.
At one event where I didn't get sick but a lot of others did, I attribute my testing negative to simply opting out of a lot of the event after people started testing positive, which some didn't look on kindly. At another event where I didn't get sick but others did, I spent a day sitting next to the first guy who tested positive the next day, and thankfully what I think made the difference is that I was wearing a mask. It sucks to be the only person wearing a mask in all-day meetings for the duration of a several-day work retreat, and it sucks to have to tell your family that's flying out that there is some risk of contracting the virus because you were all exposed.
So I guess that's all to say, are you making sure that you're taking COVID precautions, such as at least asking folks to test before and during the event? Are you offering tests or masks to attendees? I know many aren't bothering to do those things anymore, but those practices would make traveling to events like this more accessible and appealing to everyone. I take precautions because I have risk factors; your employees or their families might as well.
posted by limeonaire at 11:54 AM on October 14 [13 favorites]
At one event where I didn't get sick but a lot of others did, I attribute my testing negative to simply opting out of a lot of the event after people started testing positive, which some didn't look on kindly. At another event where I didn't get sick but others did, I spent a day sitting next to the first guy who tested positive the next day, and thankfully what I think made the difference is that I was wearing a mask. It sucks to be the only person wearing a mask in all-day meetings for the duration of a several-day work retreat, and it sucks to have to tell your family that's flying out that there is some risk of contracting the virus because you were all exposed.
So I guess that's all to say, are you making sure that you're taking COVID precautions, such as at least asking folks to test before and during the event? Are you offering tests or masks to attendees? I know many aren't bothering to do those things anymore, but those practices would make traveling to events like this more accessible and appealing to everyone. I take precautions because I have risk factors; your employees or their families might as well.
posted by limeonaire at 11:54 AM on October 14 [13 favorites]
"I can't get childcare" is also polite shorthand for "this weeklong workplace social hangout would be miserably disruptive to my actual life, but I can't say that directly." The travel schedule is ruining two weekends in a row, just to start with. Plus, even if they can figure out childcare, the kids' schedule is going to be disrupted so that's at least another week of trying to get their life back on track.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:59 AM on October 14 [61 favorites]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:59 AM on October 14 [61 favorites]
I think that a weeklong retreat is simply going to exclude a lot of people with caregiving commitments outside work. Don’t forget that not all “family commitments” involve small children - I probably know as many people caring for parents or other adult family members. Plus older kids with needs that couldn’t be met by resort childcare or any temporary setup.
posted by Kriesa at 12:04 PM on October 14 [45 favorites]
posted by Kriesa at 12:04 PM on October 14 [45 favorites]
I recently considered applying for a job at a nonprofit with a similar annual retreat; they appear to have addressed this by making a hybrid model the standing assumption, and I'd advocate for that. There are always going to be people for whom an entire week of travel is a burden. (Has the org discussed shortening the event? What is happening that means this retreat needs to be longer than a typical conference, and does it really need to be happening for that long? If the thought is that people can only really bond with that much in-person time I'd challenge that.)
As a parent with shared custody I would also suggest clear messaging that it's okay to come for part of the week- for me "bring the kid for the whole week" would just not be a workable solution--and I do not have a second adult I could fly in as a caregiver; please don't assume that everyone does--but I could swing a few days.
This is perhaps a little more out there but they also specifically named care responsibilities for pets in their materials somewhere, and that's a real consideration that I'm sure people would appreciate (financial) attention being paid to. A week of boarding or a pet sitter is not an insignificant expense.
posted by wormtales at 12:06 PM on October 14 [30 favorites]
As a parent with shared custody I would also suggest clear messaging that it's okay to come for part of the week- for me "bring the kid for the whole week" would just not be a workable solution--and I do not have a second adult I could fly in as a caregiver; please don't assume that everyone does--but I could swing a few days.
This is perhaps a little more out there but they also specifically named care responsibilities for pets in their materials somewhere, and that's a real consideration that I'm sure people would appreciate (financial) attention being paid to. A week of boarding or a pet sitter is not an insignificant expense.
posted by wormtales at 12:06 PM on October 14 [30 favorites]
Yeah, pets are a real consideration as well. I have a family member who's having major surgery this week, and part of why I'm not traveling there for it is because NYC has gas line inspections every 4 years, apparently, and my apartment's lines needed repair, so now I don't have gas service until the work gets reinspected. There's a shortage of inspectors, it seems, and no timeline for when reinspection will happen. Without gas service, I have no heat in my apartment, so I'm using heaters to keep it warm in here as it gets cooler. I can't leave the heaters unattended with cats running around in here.
That's just one example to say, yeah, people's caregiving structures and home responsibilities definitely might be more complicated than you can accommodate in a policy.
posted by limeonaire at 12:11 PM on October 14 [5 favorites]
That's just one example to say, yeah, people's caregiving structures and home responsibilities definitely might be more complicated than you can accommodate in a policy.
posted by limeonaire at 12:11 PM on October 14 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: To respond to some comments posted:
First, it is absolutely not about COVID. The gathering was canceled from 2020 to 2022, then in 2023 when it started up again, the executive director didn't come because he's high risk for COVID, and announced that. Precautions are encouraged and nobody is stigmatized for wearing a mask or whatever.
Second, we're not trying to force people to come/trying to eliminate people using their childcare situation as an excuse not to come. We are just trying to offer options to help those who do want to come but can't for that reason. Presumably any sort of "we'll give you $X for childcare" policy could also be applied to eldercare responsibilities or other situations.
We understand that this policy is not going to cover all possible situations, and we are not trying to make it do that. We are just trying to spitball ideas for how to help people attend. We are also exploring other options like making attendance more flexible (eg you can come for half of it) or simply shortening it. But what I'm asking about specifically here is reimbursement policies.
posted by number9dream at 12:13 PM on October 14 [3 favorites]
First, it is absolutely not about COVID. The gathering was canceled from 2020 to 2022, then in 2023 when it started up again, the executive director didn't come because he's high risk for COVID, and announced that. Precautions are encouraged and nobody is stigmatized for wearing a mask or whatever.
Second, we're not trying to force people to come/trying to eliminate people using their childcare situation as an excuse not to come. We are just trying to offer options to help those who do want to come but can't for that reason. Presumably any sort of "we'll give you $X for childcare" policy could also be applied to eldercare responsibilities or other situations.
We understand that this policy is not going to cover all possible situations, and we are not trying to make it do that. We are just trying to spitball ideas for how to help people attend. We are also exploring other options like making attendance more flexible (eg you can come for half of it) or simply shortening it. But what I'm asking about specifically here is reimbursement policies.
posted by number9dream at 12:13 PM on October 14 [3 favorites]
I don't understand. Most kids over age 5 can't miss a week of school. This would only even potentially work for people who have still-transportable kids even for those who want to do it.
People with school-age kids don't usually have a childcare situation at home that would work for a full week and I don't know anyone who would want some child care agency to take care of their kid 24/7 for a week.
The way to think about this is not just the financial cost but rather the actual reality of people's comfort levels.
I have a 5 day annual conference. People with young kids (unless they have a totally flex co=parent) often come for 2 or 3 of those days, sometimes bringing kids on the weekend days, with some childcare subsidy.
posted by ponie at 12:16 PM on October 14 [21 favorites]
People with school-age kids don't usually have a childcare situation at home that would work for a full week and I don't know anyone who would want some child care agency to take care of their kid 24/7 for a week.
The way to think about this is not just the financial cost but rather the actual reality of people's comfort levels.
I have a 5 day annual conference. People with young kids (unless they have a totally flex co=parent) often come for 2 or 3 of those days, sometimes bringing kids on the weekend days, with some childcare subsidy.
posted by ponie at 12:16 PM on October 14 [21 favorites]
The company I work for doesn't do this, and thus doesn't have any policies around it, but I might not be working for them if they did. Like other commenters, I suspect this sort of arrangement is is relatively uncommon because it is a huge ask and potential burden for a lot of people, especially people who are out of their 20s or early 30s and are no longer relatively unattached and freewheeling. I'm surprised more aren't dodging it.
At a minimum I'd consider switching to a much more compact format, a few work days or a Friday plus Saturday and Sunday (compensated as if they were weekdays) as an absolute maximum, padded by a day or more off work at each end. Better yet, make it hybrid, or an entirely online event where normal work tasks are deferred for a few days.
On preview, I see you're specifically interested in reimbursement/compensation. I think the reason people aren't responding with suggestions in this vein is because for a lot of folks there's no amount of reimbursement that would make this make sense, or what would is simply infeasible. For example, if an employee's partner had to take a full week of vacation to accompany your employee as a child wrangler, could you cover their wages for the week? Probably not! (Personally, I'd note that while I have fairly generous paid time off, it's difficult in general to take a full uninterrupted week of vacation. I can do it once a year, at most. I wouldn't want to burn it on someone's work event.)
What about situations where the partner had to miss work or incur additional expenses while remaining at home because they're the only parent (or caregiver for an elderly parent, etc.) for a full week? I'm not sure it's even possible to fairly and accurately calculate reimbursement for this.
posted by pullayup at 12:22 PM on October 14 [19 favorites]
At a minimum I'd consider switching to a much more compact format, a few work days or a Friday plus Saturday and Sunday (compensated as if they were weekdays) as an absolute maximum, padded by a day or more off work at each end. Better yet, make it hybrid, or an entirely online event where normal work tasks are deferred for a few days.
On preview, I see you're specifically interested in reimbursement/compensation. I think the reason people aren't responding with suggestions in this vein is because for a lot of folks there's no amount of reimbursement that would make this make sense, or what would is simply infeasible. For example, if an employee's partner had to take a full week of vacation to accompany your employee as a child wrangler, could you cover their wages for the week? Probably not! (Personally, I'd note that while I have fairly generous paid time off, it's difficult in general to take a full uninterrupted week of vacation. I can do it once a year, at most. I wouldn't want to burn it on someone's work event.)
What about situations where the partner had to miss work or incur additional expenses while remaining at home because they're the only parent (or caregiver for an elderly parent, etc.) for a full week? I'm not sure it's even possible to fairly and accurately calculate reimbursement for this.
posted by pullayup at 12:22 PM on October 14 [19 favorites]
Agreed that you may not be finding established reimbursement strategies because they may not be common, or feasible.
My first thought, from when my kid was younger, was that I'd need to find care for him at home, not at the location of the event, because (as pointed out above) I can't just yank him from school for a week. Which would mean my partner would need to provide that care, which isn't something where "reimbursement" is relevant, but is something where "feasible" is relevant, because my partner doesn't drive and so all kid-transport falls on me. I'd be one of those "sorry, childcare prevents this" people even if you offered $$$$$ in reimbursement.
If I didn't have a partner, then we would be looking at yanking the kid from school, for a week, even if the kid is in high school, because overnight care ... isn't a thing where I live? So again: "sorry, childcare prevents this."
I mean, I laud the effort and thought, but the practicalities are just too insurmountable.
posted by spamloaf at 12:32 PM on October 14 [17 favorites]
My first thought, from when my kid was younger, was that I'd need to find care for him at home, not at the location of the event, because (as pointed out above) I can't just yank him from school for a week. Which would mean my partner would need to provide that care, which isn't something where "reimbursement" is relevant, but is something where "feasible" is relevant, because my partner doesn't drive and so all kid-transport falls on me. I'd be one of those "sorry, childcare prevents this" people even if you offered $$$$$ in reimbursement.
If I didn't have a partner, then we would be looking at yanking the kid from school, for a week, even if the kid is in high school, because overnight care ... isn't a thing where I live? So again: "sorry, childcare prevents this."
I mean, I laud the effort and thought, but the practicalities are just too insurmountable.
posted by spamloaf at 12:32 PM on October 14 [17 favorites]
Spamloaf has it, "I laud the effort and thought, but the practicalities are just too insurmountable."
If this was an event during the summer and childcare was provided at the event site maybe bringing kids would work but there is no way I would be able to find someone to watch my 3 kids 24/7 and shuttle them to their various activities. It's just not a service that exists.
posted by MadMadam at 12:46 PM on October 14 [5 favorites]
If this was an event during the summer and childcare was provided at the event site maybe bringing kids would work but there is no way I would be able to find someone to watch my 3 kids 24/7 and shuttle them to their various activities. It's just not a service that exists.
posted by MadMadam at 12:46 PM on October 14 [5 favorites]
You might get a broader range of responses by submitting a question to Ask a Manager, or by posting the question in their Friday open thread.
posted by bluloo at 12:49 PM on October 14 [17 favorites]
posted by bluloo at 12:49 PM on October 14 [17 favorites]
Your intentions are good, but I think that it would be worse to offer reimbursement that would help only a few than to offer no reimbursement at all.
posted by Kriesa at 12:54 PM on October 14 [7 favorites]
posted by Kriesa at 12:54 PM on October 14 [7 favorites]
Is there a reason you’re not polling your employees/colleagues for a broader temperature check about this event? As other have pointed out, there’s surely at least some overlap on the venn diagram of [people who don’t go] + [people who haven’t disclosed exactly why in detail].
And I agree with the comments that a week long event is an unreasonable ask even if optional; it is my actual nightmare and I would have no personal problems inventing any excuse to not go without making waves (but I would know I’m accepting some risk to decline outright.)
You also will want to recognize that as kind and thoughtful as your leadership or culture may be, being invited to something by the big cheeses, for most people, is seen as obligation and pressure. Most people work because they can’t afford not to, so unless you’re paying everyone a bazillion dollars a year, many are going to read “invited to non mandatory work thing” as “fml I kinda have to go to this work thing unless I have a REALLY airtight excuse”.
An anonymous Google form that employees can non-mandatory fill out seems like the perfect way to get at your question, as well as all the salient points being made above. Questions that list a lot of multiple-choice checkboxes will be your friend. If you do end up creating one, we can help crowdsource questions for it if you make another post :)
posted by seemoorglass at 12:55 PM on October 14 [8 favorites]
And I agree with the comments that a week long event is an unreasonable ask even if optional; it is my actual nightmare and I would have no personal problems inventing any excuse to not go without making waves (but I would know I’m accepting some risk to decline outright.)
You also will want to recognize that as kind and thoughtful as your leadership or culture may be, being invited to something by the big cheeses, for most people, is seen as obligation and pressure. Most people work because they can’t afford not to, so unless you’re paying everyone a bazillion dollars a year, many are going to read “invited to non mandatory work thing” as “fml I kinda have to go to this work thing unless I have a REALLY airtight excuse”.
An anonymous Google form that employees can non-mandatory fill out seems like the perfect way to get at your question, as well as all the salient points being made above. Questions that list a lot of multiple-choice checkboxes will be your friend. If you do end up creating one, we can help crowdsource questions for it if you make another post :)
posted by seemoorglass at 12:55 PM on October 14 [8 favorites]
Also, don’t bother with any reimbursement for childcare, n-thing the idea that these policies don’t exist elsewhere for a reason.
Creating one IMO creates too many weird offshoots (do pets count? do step kids count? what about a family with 6 kids? does a kid’s live in occupational therapist count? Etc.) Just give everyone a stipend as part of their remote (OR in person attendance! If this retreat must remain in the annual calendar, I’m in favor of hybrid option.) - or no one.
posted by seemoorglass at 1:03 PM on October 14 [4 favorites]
Creating one IMO creates too many weird offshoots (do pets count? do step kids count? what about a family with 6 kids? does a kid’s live in occupational therapist count? Etc.) Just give everyone a stipend as part of their remote (OR in person attendance! If this retreat must remain in the annual calendar, I’m in favor of hybrid option.) - or no one.
posted by seemoorglass at 1:03 PM on October 14 [4 favorites]
I would really consider scheduling the event differently before creating a policy to fit it. In particular, consider how much easier it would be to alter the event than to imagine and then pay for an impossible platonic ideal of this policy, which would be, it seems, as many colleagues as possible bringing their entire families and pets along at no expense to them and with extra compensation for lost wages on the part of any adult caregivers for anyone in need of care.
You describe the week as “a mixture of structured social activities, unstructured hangout time, and some more work-focused meetings and presentations”. Could the “work-focused meetings and presentations” become the exclusive thing that is done, with the socializing reserved to breaks or a pre-event digital meetup? Also, doing a shorter work-topics-only event during working hours on a Tuesday and Wednesday, for example, would let colleagues who cannot travel participate remotely alongside their in-person peers while colleagues least able to travel incur zero additional costs to their time.
In reality, the best version of this event may simply be a digital one in which participation and collaboration between colleagues doesn’t have to happen on the sidelines, but is built into each presentation or meeting. You can still schedule time away from clients as if you were all at an in-person retreat.
It’s hard to come to a different conclusion than that the event seems to not fit the staff cohort, and it’s much easier to change a schedule than change a person. What would a 100%-attended event look like? What would you all gain? Begin there and it may be possible to create an event where people are refreshed and motivated and feel positive about the organization because it respects their humanity in all its variations. Good luck!
posted by mdonley at 1:07 PM on October 14
You describe the week as “a mixture of structured social activities, unstructured hangout time, and some more work-focused meetings and presentations”. Could the “work-focused meetings and presentations” become the exclusive thing that is done, with the socializing reserved to breaks or a pre-event digital meetup? Also, doing a shorter work-topics-only event during working hours on a Tuesday and Wednesday, for example, would let colleagues who cannot travel participate remotely alongside their in-person peers while colleagues least able to travel incur zero additional costs to their time.
In reality, the best version of this event may simply be a digital one in which participation and collaboration between colleagues doesn’t have to happen on the sidelines, but is built into each presentation or meeting. You can still schedule time away from clients as if you were all at an in-person retreat.
It’s hard to come to a different conclusion than that the event seems to not fit the staff cohort, and it’s much easier to change a schedule than change a person. What would a 100%-attended event look like? What would you all gain? Begin there and it may be possible to create an event where people are refreshed and motivated and feel positive about the organization because it respects their humanity in all its variations. Good luck!
posted by mdonley at 1:07 PM on October 14
Just give everyone a stipend as part of their remote (OR in person attendance! I’m in favor of hybrid option!) - or no one.
Came to say this: if you are traveling at all, regardless of your parenting status, you get a $1000 stipend to ease the nontangible burdens of travel.
posted by phunniemee at 1:07 PM on October 14 [9 favorites]
Came to say this: if you are traveling at all, regardless of your parenting status, you get a $1000 stipend to ease the nontangible burdens of travel.
posted by phunniemee at 1:07 PM on October 14 [9 favorites]
Current work does not. Former work sort of did. They provided up to X days of emergency care, I think around 21/year/employee. Single parents I worked with would use that to patch together school+friends+emergency care for travel that needed to happen. This was through Bright Horizons, who also ran the onsite daycare. The emergency care could either be onsite or they would dispatch a nanny who had been background checked. Kids need emergency care sometimes if they are sick and you still need to get to your very important business meeting, so it wasn't just for travel.
Another strategy that folks used was flying with the kid to an intermediate location (grandma's) drop the kids off, continue to the work location, and pick them all up on the way back. Or just fly grandma to the kids.
Another perk to consider that we had was breast milk shipping. This is important for those with babies (mainly under 1 but sometimes under 2). The company was called Stork or something similar.
For pets, there was a similar annual allowance for pet care, I think something like 10 days since it only covers while you're gone. I believe the partner was Rover but it could have been someone else.
posted by Narrow Harbor at 1:19 PM on October 14 [5 favorites]
Another strategy that folks used was flying with the kid to an intermediate location (grandma's) drop the kids off, continue to the work location, and pick them all up on the way back. Or just fly grandma to the kids.
Another perk to consider that we had was breast milk shipping. This is important for those with babies (mainly under 1 but sometimes under 2). The company was called Stork or something similar.
For pets, there was a similar annual allowance for pet care, I think something like 10 days since it only covers while you're gone. I believe the partner was Rover but it could have been someone else.
posted by Narrow Harbor at 1:19 PM on October 14 [5 favorites]
Look into care.com, knowing that it can only cover the easy part (where the kids can in fact travel to your event location, and thus can’t fix school-related issues).
One of my old employers used them, it seemed to work out OK.
posted by aramaic at 1:26 PM on October 14
One of my old employers used them, it seemed to work out OK.
posted by aramaic at 1:26 PM on October 14
I don't have a sitter I can casually call to do overnights with my kids (age 3 and 6). I have a few people who could do it in an emergency, but it would be extremely disruptive to their families so it would be an option I'd hope to only use in actual emergency situations. If I was looking for an overnight sitter I would also want to test the person out by having them stay with the kids and do a full bedtime - midnight toddler dance party - breakfast - school dropoff - school pickup - dinner cycle for at least 24 hours at some point before I left. So even if the childcare for the trip itself were covered, I would have to pay extra to find and onboard a childcare provider to do that long practice shift.
As a real life example, we are actually going away later this year and leaving the kids for a few days - previously the only time we have ever needed overnight care was the 2 nights I was away birthing the toddler. To make this trip happen, we started planning SEVEN MONTHS in advance. I arranged for their former beloved sitter, the person we trust the most, to time her vacation so she could visit us at the same time as the trip, we are paying her through the nose, and at least once a week I think about some detail of that time (for instance, I got nice towels when they were on sale recently so she'll have fresh guest towels and not our ratty family towels, I'll have the house cleaned the day before she arrives, etc).
Plus, even though the kids know and love her, they will be disrupted and sleep badly without us there, which means the next few days after we return will also be chaotic and effortful as the kids get back to normal and sleep off the schedule change. And our kids are reasonably easy- no medical issues, they eat and sleep reasonably well, they're adaptable etc- but it will still be stressful for all of us!
By the time we leave for this trip, I estimate I will have spent an extra 72 hours of thinking about or planning or preparing the childcare aspect of the trip (get some crafts for them to do! get the groceries she likes! get the car cleaned for her! write out all the details that have changed since she was here last!), and then probably an extra 24-48 hours of dealing with the aftermath. I was hesitant even to take it on for this trip, which will actually be sentimentally important and very fun, but I still wasn't sure all the extra work was worth it. It's a HUGE mental load, and personally I just... would not take it on for an employer. Even an extra $1000 might not really feel worth it to me, especially if, say, it was for my husband's workplace optional thing rather than something that would concretely advance my own career goals.
I think your best bet is just to schedule the event closer to home and offer good, age-banded professional childcare at the event over the weekend with stuff kids actually like (so not just like, throwing on movies, but actual cool activities). That level of disruption will still be a huge hassle for parents but at least has some novelty for the kids.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:39 PM on October 14 [11 favorites]
As a real life example, we are actually going away later this year and leaving the kids for a few days - previously the only time we have ever needed overnight care was the 2 nights I was away birthing the toddler. To make this trip happen, we started planning SEVEN MONTHS in advance. I arranged for their former beloved sitter, the person we trust the most, to time her vacation so she could visit us at the same time as the trip, we are paying her through the nose, and at least once a week I think about some detail of that time (for instance, I got nice towels when they were on sale recently so she'll have fresh guest towels and not our ratty family towels, I'll have the house cleaned the day before she arrives, etc).
Plus, even though the kids know and love her, they will be disrupted and sleep badly without us there, which means the next few days after we return will also be chaotic and effortful as the kids get back to normal and sleep off the schedule change. And our kids are reasonably easy- no medical issues, they eat and sleep reasonably well, they're adaptable etc- but it will still be stressful for all of us!
By the time we leave for this trip, I estimate I will have spent an extra 72 hours of thinking about or planning or preparing the childcare aspect of the trip (get some crafts for them to do! get the groceries she likes! get the car cleaned for her! write out all the details that have changed since she was here last!), and then probably an extra 24-48 hours of dealing with the aftermath. I was hesitant even to take it on for this trip, which will actually be sentimentally important and very fun, but I still wasn't sure all the extra work was worth it. It's a HUGE mental load, and personally I just... would not take it on for an employer. Even an extra $1000 might not really feel worth it to me, especially if, say, it was for my husband's workplace optional thing rather than something that would concretely advance my own career goals.
I think your best bet is just to schedule the event closer to home and offer good, age-banded professional childcare at the event over the weekend with stuff kids actually like (so not just like, throwing on movies, but actual cool activities). That level of disruption will still be a huge hassle for parents but at least has some novelty for the kids.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:39 PM on October 14 [11 favorites]
Agree that you should send an anon survey and have people check off which options your company could provide to make it more likely that they would attend, including stipends, on-site care, etc, an option that says ‘nothing is more likely to make me come’ and maybe an open-ended response, basically bc I’m guessing there’s no one-size-fits-all policy. Maybe on-site would work for someone with a toddler, but wouldn’t work for someone who has a 13 year old who is active in afternoon activities and/or another family member who needs care and/or a sick pet who needs meds or has a best friend whose birthday happens to be that week or just someone who really doesn’t wanna come bc hanging out with coworkers for a week sounds awful.
posted by greta simone at 1:42 PM on October 14 [1 favorite]
posted by greta simone at 1:42 PM on October 14 [1 favorite]
My nonprofit workplace does not have such a policy, and my family caregiving responsibilities would not be alleviated by any of the options you suggest. Normalizing and encouraging a much shorter option of attending for just two or three days, however, would.
posted by Stacey at 1:52 PM on October 14 [4 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 1:52 PM on October 14 [4 favorites]
I think the reason people aren't attending is because a seven-day company retreat is waaaaaaay too long. More usual would be something like three days. If you shortened it, I bet plenty more people would attend.
posted by slkinsey at 2:24 PM on October 14 [11 favorites]
posted by slkinsey at 2:24 PM on October 14 [11 favorites]
An answer to how some people do this is by hiring a travel nanny to look after their child while they are away together. Usually these arrangements are for vacations, but they can also be used for work trips. However, unless your employees run in the sorts of circles where people have live-in nannies, I suspect it is unlikely to be popular.
posted by plonkee at 2:25 PM on October 14
posted by plonkee at 2:25 PM on October 14
I haven't seen a policy like this other than things like the caregiver grants some academic conferences provide. I've seen $400-600 and on a quick search even between €500 and €1000 for presenters.
But I think the best-case scenario besides rethinking the event itself would be on-site childcare in the summer months when school is out and travel covered for kids, with the childcare covering both the "working" and the social hours (with flexibility for parents who don't want their kids in care that long to miss chunks) + a $600 or greater subsidy for parents who are going to leave their kids home with a caregiver who will still have extra needs like Ubers or summer camp or whatever/people who will need pet sitting/people who will need elder care/etc.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:29 PM on October 14 [3 favorites]
But I think the best-case scenario besides rethinking the event itself would be on-site childcare in the summer months when school is out and travel covered for kids, with the childcare covering both the "working" and the social hours (with flexibility for parents who don't want their kids in care that long to miss chunks) + a $600 or greater subsidy for parents who are going to leave their kids home with a caregiver who will still have extra needs like Ubers or summer camp or whatever/people who will need pet sitting/people who will need elder care/etc.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:29 PM on October 14 [3 favorites]
I also just want to note that I was thinking about universal design vs. accommodations/accessible design in this thread. I think people suggesting you change the event are leaning towards universal design, rather than trying to accommodate people at an event that is inherently designed in a way that is a barrier for people with caregiving responsibilities (or other issues.) That might be a lens to apply to it as you move forward.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:33 PM on October 14 [14 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 2:33 PM on October 14 [14 favorites]
My spouse occasionally travels to conferences for work and we have young kids. The number one thing that helps make conferences more doable is the length of time - we can manage a 1-2 night trip easily, 3-4 nights is doable, more than that would be a lot harder.
With our particular kids, travel is really hard - there’s almost no situation where we would choose to bring them on a work trip (even with free childcare available) instead of leaving them at home. Money to subsidize extra care at home would be helpful, paying for their travel or on site childcare would not be helpful.
posted by maleficent at 2:34 PM on October 14 [1 favorite]
With our particular kids, travel is really hard - there’s almost no situation where we would choose to bring them on a work trip (even with free childcare available) instead of leaving them at home. Money to subsidize extra care at home would be helpful, paying for their travel or on site childcare would not be helpful.
posted by maleficent at 2:34 PM on October 14 [1 favorite]
Help us fix that.
Arrive Sun leave Sat would be a dealbreaker for me, and seems structured from the start for singles and childless couples, or wealthy people with live in full-time nannies as the primary caregiver.
I think making it either over one weekend (arrive Fri pm, leave Sunday Noon), or at most three weekdays, would be the more likely solution than having an event that just by its structure will exclude most people with family commitments.
posted by zippy at 3:37 PM on October 14 [4 favorites]
Arrive Sun leave Sat would be a dealbreaker for me, and seems structured from the start for singles and childless couples, or wealthy people with live in full-time nannies as the primary caregiver.
I think making it either over one weekend (arrive Fri pm, leave Sunday Noon), or at most three weekdays, would be the more likely solution than having an event that just by its structure will exclude most people with family commitments.
posted by zippy at 3:37 PM on October 14 [4 favorites]
This isn't a fixable problem. Your current system inherently disadvantages women and (if you're in the US) African-Americans, who are a bazillion times more likely to have caregiving responsibilities they can't give up. Your coworkers from these groups are going to be missing out on networking and professional experiences, which is not a great look for your nonprofit. You need to rethink the whole idea.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:12 PM on October 14 [26 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:12 PM on October 14 [26 favorites]
I am a single mom. I have taken my son to conferences (with grandmas in tow). I cannot imagine any realistic circumstance under which I would do this. Like basically you would have to hold the event at a kid-centric place (a camp? great wolf lodge?) in the summer and then I would have to be able to bring someone and there's basically only one person I would trust to bring for those purposes and you know people have jobs and stuff so that's not going to fly, so no.... this would not work. I'm not going to take my kid somewhere to leave him with who knows who in the Marriot childcare centre for a week.
Also, I would have to board my dog for a week which is is hella expensive to go to team-building exercises with my co-workers.
Also, while this is not an issue for me, consider people with co-parents and shared custody arrangements. I feel like virtually everyone I know who is no longer a couple with their co-parent these days has a 50/50 custody split and the transfers generally happen midweek either Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, depending on the week (they all swear it's not complicated, but I would not be able to keep track!). Anyway, anyone with shared custody is obviously going to have a problem when they fly to wherever with their kid on Sunday and need to hand them over to a co-parent on Wednesday? (Or vice-versa, fly out alone on Sunday and need to pick up their kid on Wednesday).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:27 PM on October 14 [7 favorites]
Also, I would have to board my dog for a week which is is hella expensive to go to team-building exercises with my co-workers.
Also, while this is not an issue for me, consider people with co-parents and shared custody arrangements. I feel like virtually everyone I know who is no longer a couple with their co-parent these days has a 50/50 custody split and the transfers generally happen midweek either Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, depending on the week (they all swear it's not complicated, but I would not be able to keep track!). Anyway, anyone with shared custody is obviously going to have a problem when they fly to wherever with their kid on Sunday and need to hand them over to a co-parent on Wednesday? (Or vice-versa, fly out alone on Sunday and need to pick up their kid on Wednesday).
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:27 PM on October 14 [7 favorites]
I hear you on the reimbursement policy ideas. The reason why nobody is responding to that is because that is not the main problem. I am a single person without caregiving responsibilities and you had lost me at the arriving Sunday and departing Saturday part. That’s simply a poor concept for a work event. People tend to want to travel during normal working hrs. And the fact that you can probably fit the actual work content into two days and then force people to do team building activities and hang out the rest of the time makes it worse.
So sure, you can try to sweeten the deal by throwing money at it but that won’t change the flawed concept.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:27 PM on October 14 [5 favorites]
So sure, you can try to sweeten the deal by throwing money at it but that won’t change the flawed concept.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:27 PM on October 14 [5 favorites]
Your event is too long. If it is important to enable almost everyone to attend, my suggestion to make it 3 days and offer on-site child care for young children and/or some blanket reimbursement ($500/day?) for general travel support (eldercare, babysitters/drivers for older kids, pet boarding, other expenses). I actually enjoy these sort of work events but 4 days (including travel) is my maximum.
posted by emd3737 at 6:47 PM on October 14 [2 favorites]
posted by emd3737 at 6:47 PM on October 14 [2 favorites]
I think this policy is the kind you want to hear about- my old workplace had a policy of covering the costs of breastmilk storage and refrigerated/frozen transport home for those who were breastfeeding. I think they may have also had a policy of covering the cost of a caregiver to travel with a breastfeeding child. I don’t have kids so I can’t remember the details.
posted by raccoon409 at 6:49 PM on October 14
posted by raccoon409 at 6:49 PM on October 14
Yeah, five full work days, plus two full days of travel is a lot to ask for an event like this that sounds like it's got a large component of Mandated Work Socializing. I think if I were in charge of this, and I really wanted to incentivize people to come, in addition to a travel stipend for childcare/eldercare/pet care/plant watering I might schedule it Monday-Thursday (including travel) and let the people who traveled to attend in person take Friday off to get their lives back in order. But it's also just hard for people to sort these things out, most people have a lot of responsibilities in their lives and if they have back-up, they usually want to call that in for, say, a vacation.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 7:50 PM on October 14 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Sandwich at 7:50 PM on October 14 [3 favorites]
I work extremely remotely for a company that for the last couple years has tried to do a quarterly get-together and have everybody come in for it, but they're not super disappointed if people skip it. In some ways, their setup is way more accommodating - they're only hoping that people show up for one day, so for the vast majority of the company that lives within easy driving distance, that's really not much of an issue to accomplish, and my company was covering travel costs and a night in a hotel to make it happen, but not extra costs like child care or pet boarding or anything like that. So, low-level of hardship, lower level of accommodation for difficulties in making that one day than you're thinking of, but also understanding if someone has difficulties.
Personally, even as a single person without any care responsibilities, even with covering my travel costs it was too much of a burden to attend all the meetings just because travelling there knocks a day out of my life there and back, so a one-day thing for most people is actually a three-day thing for me, so it really is just the hardship of travelling and making arrangements rather than a reimbursement thing.
posted by LionIndex at 7:57 PM on October 14 [3 favorites]
Personally, even as a single person without any care responsibilities, even with covering my travel costs it was too much of a burden to attend all the meetings just because travelling there knocks a day out of my life there and back, so a one-day thing for most people is actually a three-day thing for me, so it really is just the hardship of travelling and making arrangements rather than a reimbursement thing.
posted by LionIndex at 7:57 PM on October 14 [3 favorites]
Could you circulate the meeting to cities where the majority of the people with children live? Just a thought, but that would make it easier for people with children to attend as part of their regular work day. For example, if you found that most people with children at your workplace lived in Atlanta and Detroit, you could have the meeting one year in Atlanta and the next in Detroit, and then those parent workers just attend the meeting as part of their workday.
I maneuvered something like this recently at my workplace and it worked well.
posted by Toddles at 8:09 PM on October 14 [1 favorite]
I maneuvered something like this recently at my workplace and it worked well.
posted by Toddles at 8:09 PM on October 14 [1 favorite]
It's not just childcare, as people (most often than not women) may have elderly care responsibilities where it is completely not an option to leave the person needing care for a week. Caring for someone with dementia may require daily presence that is just not possible to replicate i with paid carers, so this may be another aspect to reconsider in terms of design of your event. Otherwise you are excluding a chunk of population. I don't have children but I do have a father-in-law with mixed dementia, now in nursing home, but back when he was living "independently" (read: propped up by me and my wife to our detriment and countless hours sorting out yet another mishap), leaving for a week just would not be doable, ad-hoc elderly care doesn't really exist and would be extremely disruptive.
posted by coffee_monster at 2:57 AM on October 15 [2 favorites]
posted by coffee_monster at 2:57 AM on October 15 [2 favorites]
I also work for a small, all-remote nonprofit. Our all-staff shindigs are always Monday night through Thursday noon, with some teams extending into Friday noon. Many people travel for their roles already so we don't offer any special benefits for traveling to this event or coverage of home expenses, although a team member could arrive later / leave earlier if family obligations necessitate it. Individuals can extend their stay through the weekend at their own expense (usually at our group rate) and that tends to be when a spouse/ children might join them, but none of their travel expenses would be covered. If a spouse / child comes for the whole conference, they are generally on their own and the employee is expected to be fully present at all activities.
We have a very strong work-life balance culture and our all-staffs include plenty of social time, but they're very focused on building relationships between staff/teams, introducing new strategies, etc. When a team member's spouse / kids have come in the past, those individuals tend to be less engaged in the whole event.
So while you're asking about a logistics question, I think it is worth pulling back and thinking about whether your organization's expectations about this event are realistic in today's world. A shorter event, scheduled with plenty of lead time for people to make arrangements, seems to make the most sense (and would save money that could be reallocated to your core mission).
posted by Sweetie Darling at 4:55 AM on October 15
We have a very strong work-life balance culture and our all-staffs include plenty of social time, but they're very focused on building relationships between staff/teams, introducing new strategies, etc. When a team member's spouse / kids have come in the past, those individuals tend to be less engaged in the whole event.
So while you're asking about a logistics question, I think it is worth pulling back and thinking about whether your organization's expectations about this event are realistic in today's world. A shorter event, scheduled with plenty of lead time for people to make arrangements, seems to make the most sense (and would save money that could be reallocated to your core mission).
posted by Sweetie Darling at 4:55 AM on October 15
As a single parent I'm stressed out just reading about this event. No amount of money would make it feasible for me to attend the full event, and most of the other options (leaving early, not attending, and even the virtual option, though it's better than nothing) have direct career impacts in terms of missing a huge networking opportunity, and I would be worried about indirect ones too, even if it's made very clear, very convincingly from the company (as it absolutely should be) that those options are available and fully acceptable. Not everyone will understand how difficult-to-impossible it would be for many parents to attend, and there's a real chance of being viewed negatively by childless coworkers (who may also not want to go but feel they have no excuse) even if it's officially ok. My company does not have any childcare funding for travel to conferences or events like this, but also doesn't have events like this, thankfully. Anything longer than 3-4 days is really unreasonable, and even for that length there should be understanding that some people won't be able to manage it.
If there are no parents in the group of people making these decisions (or only a few with some kind of unicorn setup like trustworthy local grandparents happy to take the kids for a week) you definitely need to do some kind of anonymous survey of the parents who work with you to hear their thoughts because this whole event concept really seems to be coming from the perspective of people who have no children or other responsibilities. Childcare is not the same thing as boarding a dog, you can't just throw money at it until the problem goes away. In some ways reimbursing childcare expenses could actually be harmful if there's the perception (true or not) that there's now less of an excuse for not going. The entire design of this event is hostile to parents and other caregivers, especially those with fewer resources available (not just financial but also things like family support).
posted by randomnity at 6:06 AM on October 15 [5 favorites]
If there are no parents in the group of people making these decisions (or only a few with some kind of unicorn setup like trustworthy local grandparents happy to take the kids for a week) you definitely need to do some kind of anonymous survey of the parents who work with you to hear their thoughts because this whole event concept really seems to be coming from the perspective of people who have no children or other responsibilities. Childcare is not the same thing as boarding a dog, you can't just throw money at it until the problem goes away. In some ways reimbursing childcare expenses could actually be harmful if there's the perception (true or not) that there's now less of an excuse for not going. The entire design of this event is hostile to parents and other caregivers, especially those with fewer resources available (not just financial but also things like family support).
posted by randomnity at 6:06 AM on October 15 [5 favorites]
I’ve been thinking a lot about this post as it initially hit a nerve for me, as I already hinted at have various non-childcare responsibilities and circumstances that make an event that you describe untenable.
Another thing that I’ll own (that I’m probably projecting on your question to some extent) is that I have a VERY bad relationship with any org. that is predicated on “our culture is so different from regular work cultures! we are all so passionate about the cause and create such a great and healthy work environment that of course our passionate employees are happy to have a higher/different level of attachment to work!”
Everywhere I’ve worked, I started out, upon request from the org., as the super passionate, all-in, flexible model employee and at every job I’ve had I’ve hit a wall and burnt out. Most of that is me problems, but I also don’t think my me problems are that uncommon. (Just to name a few: long covid, other chronic illness, recovering from a brain injury from a minor car accident last year… there are many more that have nothing to do with childcare, and most of them I would NEVER share directly with my work.)
I’ve come to be very skeptical about orgs that seek out uber-committed types. It leaves so little wiggle room for people’s circumstances and capacities to change, which often occur for reasons that 90% of the time are no business of work.
Every time I’ve had a work burnout, it diminishes my capacity for a long time afterward. And every time I have to quietly push through, or push back, for a work obligation that doesn’t NEED to be as taxing as it is, or that doesn’t really connect to the bottom line of the org / my role, that diminishes my capacity too.
The part that really makes me mad/sad is that despite all my capacity and circumstance changes across the diff jobs I’ve had, even during the most taxing of my circumstances I’m usually still pretty good at the core job responsibilities! if I could just opt out of the “above and beyond” crap, I’d still be a good employee in many ways. But I have a very big chip on my shoulder for a long time now because it seems like that’s rarely enough for most orgs.
TLDR; just speaking for myself, part of why I’ve now commented 3 times on this post, 0 of which address your actual policy question, is that your question is like one degree off from a topic that really impacts my life and has for many years and I wish SO BADLY that any of the orgs I’ve worked for would effing listen to the actual pain points I have about the “above and beyond” stuff.
But I did want to also note that if you are feeling overwhelmed by these comments (most of which are not answering your question as asked, but I believe all in good faith) - I get that your question is in good faith too, and I hope you’re not feeling dogpiled. If I were you I’d definitely be feeling a type of way that I’m getting all these non-answer answers but I hope you’re taking care of yourself if you’re a bit gobsmacked and I hope at some point all the answers you’re getting get through in a way that works for your org and all its employees. Best of luck.
posted by seemoorglass at 6:13 AM on October 15 [11 favorites]
Another thing that I’ll own (that I’m probably projecting on your question to some extent) is that I have a VERY bad relationship with any org. that is predicated on “our culture is so different from regular work cultures! we are all so passionate about the cause and create such a great and healthy work environment that of course our passionate employees are happy to have a higher/different level of attachment to work!”
Everywhere I’ve worked, I started out, upon request from the org., as the super passionate, all-in, flexible model employee and at every job I’ve had I’ve hit a wall and burnt out. Most of that is me problems, but I also don’t think my me problems are that uncommon. (Just to name a few: long covid, other chronic illness, recovering from a brain injury from a minor car accident last year… there are many more that have nothing to do with childcare, and most of them I would NEVER share directly with my work.)
I’ve come to be very skeptical about orgs that seek out uber-committed types. It leaves so little wiggle room for people’s circumstances and capacities to change, which often occur for reasons that 90% of the time are no business of work.
Every time I’ve had a work burnout, it diminishes my capacity for a long time afterward. And every time I have to quietly push through, or push back, for a work obligation that doesn’t NEED to be as taxing as it is, or that doesn’t really connect to the bottom line of the org / my role, that diminishes my capacity too.
The part that really makes me mad/sad is that despite all my capacity and circumstance changes across the diff jobs I’ve had, even during the most taxing of my circumstances I’m usually still pretty good at the core job responsibilities! if I could just opt out of the “above and beyond” crap, I’d still be a good employee in many ways. But I have a very big chip on my shoulder for a long time now because it seems like that’s rarely enough for most orgs.
TLDR; just speaking for myself, part of why I’ve now commented 3 times on this post, 0 of which address your actual policy question, is that your question is like one degree off from a topic that really impacts my life and has for many years and I wish SO BADLY that any of the orgs I’ve worked for would effing listen to the actual pain points I have about the “above and beyond” stuff.
But I did want to also note that if you are feeling overwhelmed by these comments (most of which are not answering your question as asked, but I believe all in good faith) - I get that your question is in good faith too, and I hope you’re not feeling dogpiled. If I were you I’d definitely be feeling a type of way that I’m getting all these non-answer answers but I hope you’re taking care of yourself if you’re a bit gobsmacked and I hope at some point all the answers you’re getting get through in a way that works for your org and all its employees. Best of luck.
posted by seemoorglass at 6:13 AM on October 15 [11 favorites]
I have three kids and my partner is a stay at home parent. There's no way in the world I would shlep them to some place where they don't have access to all their stuff, miss a week a school, while I work and my partner has to take care of them in a foreign place, all presumably in a hotel room.
I would also never, ever, trust an on-site daycare at a conference center to watch my children.
If you want more people to come and have it be less of a burden the only option is to subsidize it. Money is fungible and gives people the power to make their own decisions---everyone has different obligations. No dealing with reimbursement, etc. Just make the per deim $500 bucks and call it a day.
Also a week is absolutely wild. I wouldn't leave my kids for a week, even for a vacation.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:15 AM on October 15 [2 favorites]
I would also never, ever, trust an on-site daycare at a conference center to watch my children.
If you want more people to come and have it be less of a burden the only option is to subsidize it. Money is fungible and gives people the power to make their own decisions---everyone has different obligations. No dealing with reimbursement, etc. Just make the per deim $500 bucks and call it a day.
Also a week is absolutely wild. I wouldn't leave my kids for a week, even for a vacation.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:15 AM on October 15 [2 favorites]
"I don't have childcare" is what I tell my boss instead of "There's not enough money in the world to get me to attend your deathmarch of trustfalls." In reality, I have plenty of childcare.
Don't blow up my excuse.
posted by bowbeacon at 6:23 AM on October 15 [5 favorites]
Don't blow up my excuse.
posted by bowbeacon at 6:23 AM on October 15 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the thoughtful responses, everybody.
posted by number9dream at 7:14 AM on October 15 [6 favorites]
posted by number9dream at 7:14 AM on October 15 [6 favorites]
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posted by sandmanwv at 11:48 AM on October 14 [1 favorite]