Cat-ethical dilemma
September 29, 2024 7:24 AM Subscribe
I feed stray cats in my neighbourhood. It’s a hobby that I do with my mother. Recently, we found this nice cat that’s like a few months old, he is energetic and lively.
We met a mother and her teenage daughter two weeks ago. They want to catch this cat and bring it home. My mum was really into this idea because its hard to find a home for stray cats. And we have spent quite a lot of time together trying to catch this cat. Now comes the problem.
I think I’m a bit of a people pleaser and I did not find out about this person’s plans for cat ownership until tonight.
Snowflake inside.
The issue is this person lives in a large house, but she lives there with other people. So she intends to keep the cat confined to her own room. There is an in-ground swimming pool and she has no way to secure the pool so that the cat won’t fall in.
I asked her if she could place a cover on it, and she just said, oh well, if he falls in, she would hear and rescue him. If he fell into the pool when she was at school, her mum would save him. And he wouldn’t fall in at night because she would keep him in her room.
The second issue is, she is 15 and unsure if she will remain in this place or go to another country in the coming years. She told me if she goes to another country, she will give the cat away to her friend who wants a cat.
I don’t think that is a good plan because when a cat is young is the best possible time for them to find an owner. No one wants an adult cat.
Now, I KNOW I am in the wrong because I should have asked them about this before. I really don’t know why I didn’t because I even told them all about meshing windows and to not buy the killer robot litter boxes.
I want to tell them, I cannot hand over the cat to them. This is an attractive option as I have found a person who is experienced in fostering cats and who says she is willing to take him on.
But my mum just told me, oh hey, maybe it will work out. And she is angry with me because she wants to avoid unpleasantness with these people and she thinks that possibly, these people will learn to become good cat owners. I also feel bad because they have spent like one hour on multiple evenings trying to catch this cat, and we have just been talking to them like we’ll hand the cat over (I am mentally really clear that this isn’t my cat, I just have the scaries about possibly handing him over to people who are incurious and careless).
Do you all think that I should just give them the cat, leave the lines of communication open and pray that nothing goes wrong?
The issue is this person lives in a large house, but she lives there with other people. So she intends to keep the cat confined to her own room. There is an in-ground swimming pool and she has no way to secure the pool so that the cat won’t fall in.
I asked her if she could place a cover on it, and she just said, oh well, if he falls in, she would hear and rescue him. If he fell into the pool when she was at school, her mum would save him. And he wouldn’t fall in at night because she would keep him in her room.
The second issue is, she is 15 and unsure if she will remain in this place or go to another country in the coming years. She told me if she goes to another country, she will give the cat away to her friend who wants a cat.
I don’t think that is a good plan because when a cat is young is the best possible time for them to find an owner. No one wants an adult cat.
Now, I KNOW I am in the wrong because I should have asked them about this before. I really don’t know why I didn’t because I even told them all about meshing windows and to not buy the killer robot litter boxes.
I want to tell them, I cannot hand over the cat to them. This is an attractive option as I have found a person who is experienced in fostering cats and who says she is willing to take him on.
But my mum just told me, oh hey, maybe it will work out. And she is angry with me because she wants to avoid unpleasantness with these people and she thinks that possibly, these people will learn to become good cat owners. I also feel bad because they have spent like one hour on multiple evenings trying to catch this cat, and we have just been talking to them like we’ll hand the cat over (I am mentally really clear that this isn’t my cat, I just have the scaries about possibly handing him over to people who are incurious and careless).
Do you all think that I should just give them the cat, leave the lines of communication open and pray that nothing goes wrong?
What Tell Me No Lies said. Have housesat for several outdoor cats at homes with pools. It has never been an issue.
The "I am 15 and if I leave town I'm gonna dump this cat on someone else" is a much bigger issue.
posted by rednikki at 7:56 AM on September 29 [8 favorites]
The "I am 15 and if I leave town I'm gonna dump this cat on someone else" is a much bigger issue.
posted by rednikki at 7:56 AM on September 29 [8 favorites]
This question is very eponysterical, Didnt_do_enough! I think you have absolutely done enough and it is not your fault. Cat care standards and expectations are very much a spectrum, with huge variations between countries, age groups, and cultures. They are really in flux because with the internet and how much we love cats online you get a clash of all of these things and there’s tons of drama. So I wonder if some of your feelings and worries are coming from the high tensions that are often seen in online animal rescue and care spaces.
So, first of all, the adopter is a minor (or would be here in the US), so make sure having the cat is actually allowed by the homeowner and their legal guardian. It does concern me that she would keep the cat in her bedroom, that is not enough room for a young kitten (I’d comfortably say an adult cat would be fine in a studio apartment, but a kitten? Plus would their litter and food and night time zoomies all be next to where this girl sleeps? A bad match). It also concerns me that she would give the cat to a friend instead of the cat continuing to live with, presumably, her parents? It’s possible that she is living with other young people in a shared living situation but even then there’s got to be some kind of group acceptance of feline care. I would be worried about the girl not being able to handle a kitten (which is a LOT of work, especially a previously feral), and the parents being the kind of people who would mistreat the cat, put them outside again, etc. It just generally strikes me as off. But if the family is all okay with having a cat in the house, I see no issue at all with a cat living there, as a normal house cat.
The pool is an issue that would be solved by introducing the cat to water and helping it learn to swim, which cats can absolutely do, especially if they are introduced at a young age and are confident cats. Yes there is still some danger but I’d be much more concerned about a cat being outside (where presumably the pool is?) rather than the cat being near a pool. It seems odd, if there is an indoor pool in the house and it isn’t outside, why is it accessible at all times by the cat? Is there no doorway between it and the majority of the house? Is the pool in the living room? Yes, when you have a pet you do have to change some behaviors. Like screens for the windows and not leaving unscreened windows ajar, not leaving doors wide open, keeping an eye out for furries escapes, etc. But if the family is okay with the cat they should be able to agree to keep certain doors closed and such. Again, if the rest of the house isn’t okay with the cat then none of this applies.
If it’s really just the 15 year old’s cat and nobody else in the family wants a cat or kitten, and will refuse to care for it or watch out for it or adjust in any way, then absolutely the cat goes to the other person who has experience. You have to tell the girl that it won’t be possible. If she loves cats she will understand, and maybe you could invite her to sometimes feed strays, or become involved in a local TNR volunteer group instead. Your mother will just have to deal with disappointing someone, but also, that someone is a 15 year old so that seems a bit silly.
Again, it sounds like, the more you spent time trying to catch the cat, the more you learned about the potential adopters, and the more you concluded that it wouldn’t be a good match. It seems to not be working out perfectly but that is not your fault and you’ve done plenty.
posted by Mizu at 7:57 AM on September 29
So, first of all, the adopter is a minor (or would be here in the US), so make sure having the cat is actually allowed by the homeowner and their legal guardian. It does concern me that she would keep the cat in her bedroom, that is not enough room for a young kitten (I’d comfortably say an adult cat would be fine in a studio apartment, but a kitten? Plus would their litter and food and night time zoomies all be next to where this girl sleeps? A bad match). It also concerns me that she would give the cat to a friend instead of the cat continuing to live with, presumably, her parents? It’s possible that she is living with other young people in a shared living situation but even then there’s got to be some kind of group acceptance of feline care. I would be worried about the girl not being able to handle a kitten (which is a LOT of work, especially a previously feral), and the parents being the kind of people who would mistreat the cat, put them outside again, etc. It just generally strikes me as off. But if the family is all okay with having a cat in the house, I see no issue at all with a cat living there, as a normal house cat.
The pool is an issue that would be solved by introducing the cat to water and helping it learn to swim, which cats can absolutely do, especially if they are introduced at a young age and are confident cats. Yes there is still some danger but I’d be much more concerned about a cat being outside (where presumably the pool is?) rather than the cat being near a pool. It seems odd, if there is an indoor pool in the house and it isn’t outside, why is it accessible at all times by the cat? Is there no doorway between it and the majority of the house? Is the pool in the living room? Yes, when you have a pet you do have to change some behaviors. Like screens for the windows and not leaving unscreened windows ajar, not leaving doors wide open, keeping an eye out for furries escapes, etc. But if the family is okay with the cat they should be able to agree to keep certain doors closed and such. Again, if the rest of the house isn’t okay with the cat then none of this applies.
If it’s really just the 15 year old’s cat and nobody else in the family wants a cat or kitten, and will refuse to care for it or watch out for it or adjust in any way, then absolutely the cat goes to the other person who has experience. You have to tell the girl that it won’t be possible. If she loves cats she will understand, and maybe you could invite her to sometimes feed strays, or become involved in a local TNR volunteer group instead. Your mother will just have to deal with disappointing someone, but also, that someone is a 15 year old so that seems a bit silly.
Again, it sounds like, the more you spent time trying to catch the cat, the more you learned about the potential adopters, and the more you concluded that it wouldn’t be a good match. It seems to not be working out perfectly but that is not your fault and you’ve done plenty.
posted by Mizu at 7:57 AM on September 29
So she intends to keep the cat confined to her own room.
This is the main problem, really (and yes, nthing that the pool is not a problem). I'm a little unclear though - you call this animal "a few months old" but also a cat and not a kitten - are you sure of the age? With feral cats, the window for domestication is quick moving. In any case, assuming this is an older kitten, going from full outdoor access to confinement in one room might be difficult."
One option is to go ahead and give the 15 year old a chance, but let her know "based on how little space you can give this feral cat, I suspect they won't adjust well. Please don't feel bad if it doesn't work out - I know someone with a more suitable setup who could foster."
But honestly, I'd probably do a little research on local shelters, and encourage them to get a cat from one of those - they are likely going to be more happy with a domesticated cat than a feral one, especially if they are new to caring for cats.
posted by coffeecat at 8:05 AM on September 29 [2 favorites]
This is the main problem, really (and yes, nthing that the pool is not a problem). I'm a little unclear though - you call this animal "a few months old" but also a cat and not a kitten - are you sure of the age? With feral cats, the window for domestication is quick moving. In any case, assuming this is an older kitten, going from full outdoor access to confinement in one room might be difficult."
One option is to go ahead and give the 15 year old a chance, but let her know "based on how little space you can give this feral cat, I suspect they won't adjust well. Please don't feel bad if it doesn't work out - I know someone with a more suitable setup who could foster."
But honestly, I'd probably do a little research on local shelters, and encourage them to get a cat from one of those - they are likely going to be more happy with a domesticated cat than a feral one, especially if they are new to caring for cats.
posted by coffeecat at 8:05 AM on September 29 [2 favorites]
Ok, first off, you say “ cat is young is the best possible time for them to find an owner. No one wants an adult cat.” - that second part is categorically untrue and I’m sure there’s many people on this very website who would want an adult cat.
Second, I don’t have much trust that a child can keep a feral animal confined to their bedroom, so the question of is it OK for a cat to be confined in small space is much less pressing than how the other people who live in this potential home feel about the cat. Is there informed consent from all members of this household? Are any of them actively opposed to a cat existing in their home?
Do you all think that I should just give them the cat, leave the lines of communication open and pray that nothing goes wrong?
Yes, contingent upon the informed consent of the people with that cat would be sharing space.
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:36 AM on September 29
Second, I don’t have much trust that a child can keep a feral animal confined to their bedroom, so the question of is it OK for a cat to be confined in small space is much less pressing than how the other people who live in this potential home feel about the cat. Is there informed consent from all members of this household? Are any of them actively opposed to a cat existing in their home?
Do you all think that I should just give them the cat, leave the lines of communication open and pray that nothing goes wrong?
Yes, contingent upon the informed consent of the people with that cat would be sharing space.
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:36 AM on September 29
We used to have a tiny pond and my childhood cat fell in once (maybe even twice) and just Kitty-paddled to the edge and scrambled out. She didn't seem to enjoy it, but it did her no harm.
It would be good to check that there's a way for the carry to climb out on their own. (I'm sure there are solutions for this, both DIY and for sale.)
posted by demi-octopus at 8:50 AM on September 29
It would be good to check that there's a way for the carry to climb out on their own. (I'm sure there are solutions for this, both DIY and for sale.)
posted by demi-octopus at 8:50 AM on September 29
I'd ask the mother. The daughter may think "Oh I'll keep the kitten all to myself in my room" but the mother probably has a more realistic view.
You also want to know if they plan to allow the cat outdoors (I know that attitudes towards this vary dramatically by country).
The pool isn't an issue. My sister (aged 5) put my cat on a float in our pool. The cat jumped off immediately and paddled to the other side, launched himself out of the pool with no surface or assistance, and was angry, but fine. Other cats have drank from the pool but I've never seen them fall in. Strays often sit near our pond and enjoy the view.
posted by miscbuff at 9:00 AM on September 29
You also want to know if they plan to allow the cat outdoors (I know that attitudes towards this vary dramatically by country).
The pool isn't an issue. My sister (aged 5) put my cat on a float in our pool. The cat jumped off immediately and paddled to the other side, launched himself out of the pool with no surface or assistance, and was angry, but fine. Other cats have drank from the pool but I've never seen them fall in. Strays often sit near our pond and enjoy the view.
posted by miscbuff at 9:00 AM on September 29
They want to catch this cat and bring it home. My mum was really into this idea because its hard to find a home for stray cats. And we have spent quite a lot of time together trying to catch this cat...
I want to tell them, I cannot hand over the cat to them... But my mum just told me, oh hey, maybe it will work out. And she is angry with me because she wants to avoid unpleasantness...
so, like, the cat's still wild, right? maybe just let it be wild
posted by HearHere at 9:08 AM on September 29 [1 favorite]
I want to tell them, I cannot hand over the cat to them... But my mum just told me, oh hey, maybe it will work out. And she is angry with me because she wants to avoid unpleasantness...
so, like, the cat's still wild, right? maybe just let it be wild
posted by HearHere at 9:08 AM on September 29 [1 favorite]
Unless the potential adopters live right next door, go to your same place of worship, work with you, spend frequent social time with you, etc. I don't you need to factor in "unpleasantness." Sure coming back to someone and saying, "after giving it some thought, we're not going to be able to help you adopt this cat," may not be a fun conversation, but it's maybe 20-30 minutes of your time versus the 15+ years of the cat's life in a household that may not be able to fully provide for it's needs.
The welfare of the cat should take precedence here. You have found an experienced foster situation for the cat, that's where it should go.
You could tell this person that the cat will need to spend some time being fostered to ensure that it's properly socialized and during that time you can have some further discussions with the mother (a 15 year old should not be given the cat unless the adults in that household are completely on board to support the care of the cat) to determine if this is really a good fit.
posted by brookeb at 10:00 AM on September 29
The welfare of the cat should take precedence here. You have found an experienced foster situation for the cat, that's where it should go.
You could tell this person that the cat will need to spend some time being fostered to ensure that it's properly socialized and during that time you can have some further discussions with the mother (a 15 year old should not be given the cat unless the adults in that household are completely on board to support the care of the cat) to determine if this is really a good fit.
posted by brookeb at 10:00 AM on September 29
The process of turning a feral cat into a house pet is not as simple as “can I catch it?”
I feed a dozen strays and there’s only one with the slightest interest in exploring inside the house, and he tore a hole in a window screen to get out, when he got lost and couldn’t find the open door, as he made a panic mode exit.
It is not impossible, I’ve had two make the transition to inside cats, but it required months of patience and a schedule that let me sit outside next to food dish for hours at a time.
posted by funkaspuck at 11:39 AM on September 29 [7 favorites]
I feed a dozen strays and there’s only one with the slightest interest in exploring inside the house, and he tore a hole in a window screen to get out, when he got lost and couldn’t find the open door, as he made a panic mode exit.
It is not impossible, I’ve had two make the transition to inside cats, but it required months of patience and a schedule that let me sit outside next to food dish for hours at a time.
posted by funkaspuck at 11:39 AM on September 29 [7 favorites]
coffeecat: With feral cats, the window for domestication is quick moving.
One of our cats was feral, about a year old when caught, lived in a shelter for some three months at which point we took her in.
It took about a year of not bothering her too much while still introducing her to life as a cat in a human household. That took a lot of patience, and tuna.
Another 18 months on she can do the domestic cat act pretty convincingly, like asking for scritches and sitting or even sleeping in a lap. If she feels like it, that is.
posted by Stoneshop at 2:33 PM on September 29
One of our cats was feral, about a year old when caught, lived in a shelter for some three months at which point we took her in.
It took about a year of not bothering her too much while still introducing her to life as a cat in a human household. That took a lot of patience, and tuna.
Another 18 months on she can do the domestic cat act pretty convincingly, like asking for scritches and sitting or even sleeping in a lap. If she feels like it, that is.
posted by Stoneshop at 2:33 PM on September 29
As many have said already, the pool is very much a non-issue, cats are not like human babies and understand not falling into bodies of water for the most part - a life with a family with a pool is much safer than life as a feral.
If this child's mother is helping her catch it, presumably they intend to give it a good home (did she mean to confine it in her room the whole time, or only at night?) - regardless - the cat is a stray, if they catch it they have just as much right to it as you and I don't think you have any particular right to 'not hand over the cat' to them. Probably the best thing to do would be to do what you've done already, which is to advise her regarding cat care and vet visits etc.
posted by and her eyes were wild. at 3:53 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
If this child's mother is helping her catch it, presumably they intend to give it a good home (did she mean to confine it in her room the whole time, or only at night?) - regardless - the cat is a stray, if they catch it they have just as much right to it as you and I don't think you have any particular right to 'not hand over the cat' to them. Probably the best thing to do would be to do what you've done already, which is to advise her regarding cat care and vet visits etc.
posted by and her eyes were wild. at 3:53 PM on September 29 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for all your replies. As an update, this is what I've decided to do. The cat will (hopefully) be caught today.
The girl's mother knows about her intention to keep the cat and is ok with it.
I'm relieved to hear the pool won't be an issue.
->Whether or not the other people in the house know and are ok with the cat-->I'll ask them.
They can't catch the cat on their own. The whole issue where I'm 'handing the cat over' comes from the fact that I was originally arranging for a professional cat trapper to get him and some other unfixed cats in the area and then to neuter them. If they were able to catch him, I wouldn't be feeling so anxious because I guess I would not feel responsible if they turned out to not be good at cat ownership.
I think for now, I'll just arrange for the cat trapper to bring the cat to them, but advise them that if they find that they can't manage him, to contact the fosterer or tell me so that I'll contact the fosterer.
posted by Didnt_do_enough at 9:31 PM on September 29 [1 favorite]
The girl's mother knows about her intention to keep the cat and is ok with it.
I'm relieved to hear the pool won't be an issue.
->Whether or not the other people in the house know and are ok with the cat-->I'll ask them.
They can't catch the cat on their own. The whole issue where I'm 'handing the cat over' comes from the fact that I was originally arranging for a professional cat trapper to get him and some other unfixed cats in the area and then to neuter them. If they were able to catch him, I wouldn't be feeling so anxious because I guess I would not feel responsible if they turned out to not be good at cat ownership.
I think for now, I'll just arrange for the cat trapper to bring the cat to them, but advise them that if they find that they can't manage him, to contact the fosterer or tell me so that I'll contact the fosterer.
posted by Didnt_do_enough at 9:31 PM on September 29 [1 favorite]
Another thing I feel I should mention is that all shelters over here won't place a cat with a feral history like this unless there is at least one other, social, cat in the household.
posted by Stoneshop at 12:36 AM on September 30 [1 favorite]
posted by Stoneshop at 12:36 AM on September 30 [1 favorite]
Have these people ever had cats? Because "aw aw the cat will stay in my room and I'll cuddle with it and sleep with it whenever I want" seems like a point of view of someone who hasn't had much experience with cats....
If the adults are ok with the cat, and will take care of the cat (even spaying cost is non-trivial, esp. for a 15 year old with possibly no income), I'd say you've done more than enough to provide the cat with potentially a great life. But the mismatch of experience and expectations would worry me.
posted by Dotty at 6:09 AM on September 30 [3 favorites]
If the adults are ok with the cat, and will take care of the cat (even spaying cost is non-trivial, esp. for a 15 year old with possibly no income), I'd say you've done more than enough to provide the cat with potentially a great life. But the mismatch of experience and expectations would worry me.
posted by Dotty at 6:09 AM on September 30 [3 favorites]
Things I would worry about:
- Do the potential adopters know how much it can cost to keep a cat? Food, litter, vet costs? Are they able to meet these expenses?
- If they plan to keep the cat in their room, where will they put the litter box? Do they know about the smell involved?
- What about the other less-pleasant aspects of cat ownership? The noise, the clawing, the vomit, the shedding, the potential damage or destruction of things they value?
- You say the house is shared. Do the other adults in the house know about the plan to adopt a cat and do they approve/consent? Are there cat-allergic people in the house? Are there people (adults or children) who might hurt the cat or treat it as a pest?
The teenage owner worries me, even with the best of intentions. A teenager, once they leave home, is mostly not going to be able to live in places that allow pets. "I'll just give the cat away" is not a plan.
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:03 AM on September 30
- Do the potential adopters know how much it can cost to keep a cat? Food, litter, vet costs? Are they able to meet these expenses?
- If they plan to keep the cat in their room, where will they put the litter box? Do they know about the smell involved?
- What about the other less-pleasant aspects of cat ownership? The noise, the clawing, the vomit, the shedding, the potential damage or destruction of things they value?
- You say the house is shared. Do the other adults in the house know about the plan to adopt a cat and do they approve/consent? Are there cat-allergic people in the house? Are there people (adults or children) who might hurt the cat or treat it as a pest?
The teenage owner worries me, even with the best of intentions. A teenager, once they leave home, is mostly not going to be able to live in places that allow pets. "I'll just give the cat away" is not a plan.
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:03 AM on September 30
Dotty: Have these people ever had cats? Because "aw aw the cat will stay in my room and I'll cuddle with it and sleep with it whenever I want" seems like a point of view of someone who hasn't had much experience with cats....
And definitely not a yet to be domesticated feral, even if just a few months old and still fairly malleable. You really need to know what you're getting into as a cat minder for a case like this, which means you just shouldn't start with a feral.
posted by Stoneshop at 9:40 AM on September 30 [1 favorite]
And definitely not a yet to be domesticated feral, even if just a few months old and still fairly malleable. You really need to know what you're getting into as a cat minder for a case like this, which means you just shouldn't start with a feral.
posted by Stoneshop at 9:40 AM on September 30 [1 favorite]
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A) In my entire life with cats, including currently living in a neighborhood with abundant strays, I have never seen a cat fall into a pool or be soaking wet for no reason.
B) Cats are natural swimmers. It's instinctual.
C) Putting a cover on the pool can make things worse because a cat may get tangled up in it rather than just swimming to the nearest exit.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:50 AM on September 29 [28 favorites]