Company I'm interviewing with doesn't offer healthcare.
September 8, 2024 9:12 PM Subscribe
Yep I'm in the US. I'm going to have an interview at a company that doesn't offer healthcare. I can get good insurance through my partner, so this doesn't affect me, but it seems like a giant red flag. All other similar companies I've worked for offer healthcare. I'm uneasy about this - what questions do I ask about this in the interview?
I am uneasy because this is a sign that the owners don't care about their employees, or that the employees are all under 26 and are on their parents' insurance, or that they are out of touch with the reality of modern American life, or that they are super cheap. I would like to know how to shape these concerns into interview-appropriate questions. The recruiter explained to me that the company is less than 100 people so they couldn't qualify for health insurance, which, gently, is bullshit.
Apparently the company has some kind of deal where they will reimburse you for the first $5K of health care expenses, which sounds janky to me and I don't need their HR all up in my healthcare so I'm not keen on that.
I am uneasy because this is a sign that the owners don't care about their employees, or that the employees are all under 26 and are on their parents' insurance, or that they are out of touch with the reality of modern American life, or that they are super cheap. I would like to know how to shape these concerns into interview-appropriate questions. The recruiter explained to me that the company is less than 100 people so they couldn't qualify for health insurance, which, gently, is bullshit.
Apparently the company has some kind of deal where they will reimburse you for the first $5K of health care expenses, which sounds janky to me and I don't need their HR all up in my healthcare so I'm not keen on that.
what questions do I ask about this in the interview?
Why are you guys weird?
More seriously, "what do you offer in lieu of health insurance?"
posted by zippy at 9:30 PM on September 8 [2 favorites]
Why are you guys weird?
More seriously, "what do you offer in lieu of health insurance?"
posted by zippy at 9:30 PM on September 8 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Q: As a small business owner, am I required to offer health insurance to my employees?
A: If your business qualifies as small (fewer than 50 full-time employees and full-time equivalents FTEs), you are not required to offer coverage.
(In other words, if 50 employees or more then yeah they need to set up healthcare, and the HHS link provides resources on how. But if they're below 50 -- not 100! -- then you're on your own, and ACA can help.)
posted by intermod at 9:53 PM on September 8 [5 favorites]
A: If your business qualifies as small (fewer than 50 full-time employees and full-time equivalents FTEs), you are not required to offer coverage.
(In other words, if 50 employees or more then yeah they need to set up healthcare, and the HHS link provides resources on how. But if they're below 50 -- not 100! -- then you're on your own, and ACA can help.)
posted by intermod at 9:53 PM on September 8 [5 favorites]
What could they say to any question about this that would convince you to accept an offer? I bet you can't come up with anything. I would cancel the interview.
posted by michaelh at 10:04 PM on September 8 [11 favorites]
posted by michaelh at 10:04 PM on September 8 [11 favorites]
"I notice that you don't offer health insurance, what is included in your benefits package?"
I imagine if they aren't offering healthcare, then their paid leave, retirement, vacation, and overall benefits package is slim to none.
posted by brookeb at 10:31 PM on September 8 [7 favorites]
I imagine if they aren't offering healthcare, then their paid leave, retirement, vacation, and overall benefits package is slim to none.
posted by brookeb at 10:31 PM on September 8 [7 favorites]
Best answer: If you can afford the time I would say do the interview and then make your choice, if you choose no tell them this was a factor. Let them know the reason they lost a good candidate.
posted by Iteki at 11:09 PM on September 8 [15 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 11:09 PM on September 8 [15 favorites]
Seems like they self insure for the first $5,000. Actually sounds like you get a better deal if you don't have a major issue. No deductibles. No insurance costs to you. You can buy a very high deductible $5k, policy to cover catastrophic issues.
If your issue is HR knowing more about your medical issues than you want, that is hard to solve. I note that you are, by definition, trusting HR with your compensation being private, your SS number and other personal details. I don't know why you would trust HR with your personal information but not trust them with your medical information. I guess it is because you don't really have a choice with your personal info and can have a choice with your medical. I am not a lawyer, but I can envision the company having the details of your medical information being to your advantage. It makes it more legally perilous to fire an employee if you know of a medically protected issue. It is certainly something to ask an employment lawyer about.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:10 PM on September 8 [2 favorites]
If your issue is HR knowing more about your medical issues than you want, that is hard to solve. I note that you are, by definition, trusting HR with your compensation being private, your SS number and other personal details. I don't know why you would trust HR with your personal information but not trust them with your medical information. I guess it is because you don't really have a choice with your personal info and can have a choice with your medical. I am not a lawyer, but I can envision the company having the details of your medical information being to your advantage. It makes it more legally perilous to fire an employee if you know of a medically protected issue. It is certainly something to ask an employment lawyer about.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:10 PM on September 8 [2 favorites]
Any chance this company is all-remote and geographically scattered? I can't imagine it'd be very easy for them to set up a group health plan for 30 people scattered across 16 states, or whatever.
More generally, since they're missing a standard benefit here, they should be making it up to you elsewhere - I would expect a significant salary premium to make up for this (at least enough to pay out-of-pocket for a solid health plan, post-tax).
posted by kickingtheground at 11:26 PM on September 8 [1 favorite]
More generally, since they're missing a standard benefit here, they should be making it up to you elsewhere - I would expect a significant salary premium to make up for this (at least enough to pay out-of-pocket for a solid health plan, post-tax).
posted by kickingtheground at 11:26 PM on September 8 [1 favorite]
I'd consider this a flag, yes. If they are not legally obligated to offer their own health plan I would be looking for something like:
- Partnership with a co-employer for benefits administration including a health and dental plan. Example from one small company I worked for is TriNet.
- Reimbursement of the monthly premiums for an ACA plan with full coverage of premiums for the employee and at least partial cover for dependent spouse/children. Minimum Silver tier (still comes with potential for substantial out of pocket costs). Is that $5K/year the same for everyone regardless of age and family situation? You could burn through that fast. Check your state's ACA marketplace and see if that would even cover the annual premiums for you alone.
How's the rest of the benefits package? Is there a retirement plan? Life and AD&D insurance? Paid time off?
posted by 4rtemis at 1:37 AM on September 9 [3 favorites]
- Partnership with a co-employer for benefits administration including a health and dental plan. Example from one small company I worked for is TriNet.
- Reimbursement of the monthly premiums for an ACA plan with full coverage of premiums for the employee and at least partial cover for dependent spouse/children. Minimum Silver tier (still comes with potential for substantial out of pocket costs). Is that $5K/year the same for everyone regardless of age and family situation? You could burn through that fast. Check your state's ACA marketplace and see if that would even cover the annual premiums for you alone.
How's the rest of the benefits package? Is there a retirement plan? Life and AD&D insurance? Paid time off?
posted by 4rtemis at 1:37 AM on September 9 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Is the company HQ'd outside of the US by any chance? I've been familiar with a number of outside the US based companies that have a small US presence, don't have the local resources to understand or get into insurance, and have been advised by their lawyer that they don't legally have to if the US entity is small. And in every one of those times it seems the outside the US HR's solution has been "idk do you think we should just give them money?" "yeah I guess, let's just give them money." "what could a life saving prescription possibly cost, ten dollars?"
Great and extremely reasonable questions to ask:
"I'm curious as to why the company doesn't offer health insurance. What's the story behind that?"
"Are there other benefits or compensation to make up for that?"
"Please explain how the reimbursement policy works."
"Is there a plan in place to bring the company into a more typical benefit program over the next few years?"
"Talk me through your supplemental benefits and retirement plan."
If they don't have health insurance they might be doing a SIMPLE IRA instead of 401k, if they have any plan at all, that's also something I've seen. They should absolutely be offering disability and life insurance and have a solid paid leave policy. If they can't get their shit together about that, then all that together = no, this employer doesn't care about its employees.
posted by phunniemee at 4:22 AM on September 9 [11 favorites]
Great and extremely reasonable questions to ask:
"I'm curious as to why the company doesn't offer health insurance. What's the story behind that?"
"Are there other benefits or compensation to make up for that?"
"Please explain how the reimbursement policy works."
"Is there a plan in place to bring the company into a more typical benefit program over the next few years?"
"Talk me through your supplemental benefits and retirement plan."
If they don't have health insurance they might be doing a SIMPLE IRA instead of 401k, if they have any plan at all, that's also something I've seen. They should absolutely be offering disability and life insurance and have a solid paid leave policy. If they can't get their shit together about that, then all that together = no, this employer doesn't care about its employees.
posted by phunniemee at 4:22 AM on September 9 [11 favorites]
If they can't get their shit together about that, then all that together = no, this employer doesn't care about its employees.
I'd like to expand on this and be slightly charitable. Maybe the company does care about its employees. Cool. Not being able to provide benefits would be an indication that the company isn't profitable enough to sustain its book of business at its current size, so it could be heading for a layoff or fold within a couple years too. (So if they don't have good answers to your questions, even if they seem like lovely people, you still shouldn't work for them.)
posted by phunniemee at 4:27 AM on September 9
I'd like to expand on this and be slightly charitable. Maybe the company does care about its employees. Cool. Not being able to provide benefits would be an indication that the company isn't profitable enough to sustain its book of business at its current size, so it could be heading for a layoff or fold within a couple years too. (So if they don't have good answers to your questions, even if they seem like lovely people, you still shouldn't work for them.)
posted by phunniemee at 4:27 AM on September 9
I am uneasy because this is a sign that the owners don't care about their employees, or that the employees are all under 26 and are on their parents' insurance, or that they are out of touch with the reality of modern American life, or that they are super cheap.
Is it a small company? Healthcare is incredibly expensive to provide for employees - typically the company pays 4x what the employee pays. Small companies and startups manage their cash flow like it's their life, because it is.
I'm not arguing that you should take this job, or that you shouldn't probe more, or that you shouldn't ask for some form of consideration for not getting health insurance, but your list of potential reasons for not offering one single benefit is exceptionally uncharitable, and exceptionally incomplete.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 4:36 AM on September 9 [2 favorites]
Is it a small company? Healthcare is incredibly expensive to provide for employees - typically the company pays 4x what the employee pays. Small companies and startups manage their cash flow like it's their life, because it is.
I'm not arguing that you should take this job, or that you shouldn't probe more, or that you shouldn't ask for some form of consideration for not getting health insurance, but your list of potential reasons for not offering one single benefit is exceptionally uncharitable, and exceptionally incomplete.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 4:36 AM on September 9 [2 favorites]
...or that the employees are all under 26 and are on their parents' insurance...
Back in the 1990s, I worked for three guys in their early 30s. There were probably 100 employees, almost all quite young -- and they offered health insurance, and brought in a 401(k) plan and signed us all up. Even though most of us were Young And Dumb and had school loans and stuff, they made it clear that this was the right thing to do.
So even a small company that wants to can offer decent benefits. Not doing so feels like a specific choice to me, and I would be verrrrrrry curious about their reasons.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:29 AM on September 9
Back in the 1990s, I worked for three guys in their early 30s. There were probably 100 employees, almost all quite young -- and they offered health insurance, and brought in a 401(k) plan and signed us all up. Even though most of us were Young And Dumb and had school loans and stuff, they made it clear that this was the right thing to do.
So even a small company that wants to can offer decent benefits. Not doing so feels like a specific choice to me, and I would be verrrrrrry curious about their reasons.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:29 AM on September 9
I think there's a way that this isn't a red flag, but I'm not sure. So if my thoughts below are wrong, believe whoever comes along to correct me.
If your employer offers health insurance, you don't qualify for a (potentially subsidized) Marketplace plan. If they don't, you do. Marketplace plans can be really amazing values at some income points. So, it could be better for employees in certain income brackets if an employer refrains from offering health insurance than if they offer the not-great insurance that they'd otherwise spring for.
For example, if you and a spouse make less than about $61K, really excellent coverage on a Massachusetts ConnectorCare plan is about $1400. That's per year. That's total, for the two of you, not each. That's with 0 deductible, ultra-low OOP maxes, a good network, etc. I think this is phenomenal (thanks, Obama), and I don't know why it wasn't/isn't more of a huge story. When I was employed full-time at a large company, my share of my employer-provided plan cost a lot more for a lot less benefit than I get now, paying my own way on a subsidized Massachusetts-based ConnectorCare plan.
Granted, if you + spouse make more than that ~$61K, there's a cliff, and suddenly you have to pay a whole lot more for a whole lot less. But it's at least possible that the company interviewing you has considered what they'd provide, weighed it against value to most of their employees on the Marketplace, and decided to refrain.
Is that the most likely explanation? No. Many more companies are stingy or disorganized than prone to this kind of analysis about what best suits their employees. But if I'm right, then it's at least possible, and worth asking for their rationale.
posted by daisyace at 6:04 AM on September 9 [2 favorites]
If your employer offers health insurance, you don't qualify for a (potentially subsidized) Marketplace plan. If they don't, you do. Marketplace plans can be really amazing values at some income points. So, it could be better for employees in certain income brackets if an employer refrains from offering health insurance than if they offer the not-great insurance that they'd otherwise spring for.
For example, if you and a spouse make less than about $61K, really excellent coverage on a Massachusetts ConnectorCare plan is about $1400. That's per year. That's total, for the two of you, not each. That's with 0 deductible, ultra-low OOP maxes, a good network, etc. I think this is phenomenal (thanks, Obama), and I don't know why it wasn't/isn't more of a huge story. When I was employed full-time at a large company, my share of my employer-provided plan cost a lot more for a lot less benefit than I get now, paying my own way on a subsidized Massachusetts-based ConnectorCare plan.
Granted, if you + spouse make more than that ~$61K, there's a cliff, and suddenly you have to pay a whole lot more for a whole lot less. But it's at least possible that the company interviewing you has considered what they'd provide, weighed it against value to most of their employees on the Marketplace, and decided to refrain.
Is that the most likely explanation? No. Many more companies are stingy or disorganized than prone to this kind of analysis about what best suits their employees. But if I'm right, then it's at least possible, and worth asking for their rationale.
posted by daisyace at 6:04 AM on September 9 [2 favorites]
I have worked for small family owned businesses, and even though they only had a dozen employees, they did all the paperwork to get their employees insurance, and I appreciated that.
I would suggest that they should significantly increase their salary offer over an employer that does offer health insurance.
posted by nickggully at 7:09 AM on September 9
I would suggest that they should significantly increase their salary offer over an employer that does offer health insurance.
posted by nickggully at 7:09 AM on September 9
Best answer: I worked for a startup that didn't have insurance when I started working there (when there were six of us) and finally got it a few years later when there were more like 30 employees. It was definitely a business decision; they were actually very generous with time off, but no retirement plans--basically no benefits that cost money.
It was relevant that the owners were all supported by their spouses' plans. Their first few employees were either married or young and insured through their parents, so it didn't come up. I do believe they held out as long as they could, but bought insurance at the point when they ended up with too many employees who needed it and realized they were not competitive on the market.
So I'd call it a yellow flag. Ask probing questions (do they have a long term plan around this? Is there any retirement plan/investing?), mention it if you get to do a peer interview to see what the sense is among the employees about it. But if the job is perfect I probably wouldn't let it stop me.
(Also, can you spend that $5k on your spouse's contribution to the plan through their work? That would maintain your privacy and get that money for you.)
posted by gideonfrog at 7:26 AM on September 9 [3 favorites]
It was relevant that the owners were all supported by their spouses' plans. Their first few employees were either married or young and insured through their parents, so it didn't come up. I do believe they held out as long as they could, but bought insurance at the point when they ended up with too many employees who needed it and realized they were not competitive on the market.
So I'd call it a yellow flag. Ask probing questions (do they have a long term plan around this? Is there any retirement plan/investing?), mention it if you get to do a peer interview to see what the sense is among the employees about it. But if the job is perfect I probably wouldn't let it stop me.
(Also, can you spend that $5k on your spouse's contribution to the plan through their work? That would maintain your privacy and get that money for you.)
posted by gideonfrog at 7:26 AM on September 9 [3 favorites]
Just interrupted my partners breakfast because their company does this. This was a big question when they got hired, and the explanation was this. We’re in California. Covered California insurance plans were all better than anything the small company could offer. The $5000 (around what their place offers) is meant to cover you purchasing one of those plans, you submit the bill just for the plan when purchases and they reimburse that. We get insurance through my employer though. So in January I submit a paystub, they see what my premium is, we get that reimbursed for the rest of the year. That’s all the involvement they have with my families health care.
If you aren’t in a state that offers decent health insurance to individuals I have no idea what they are thinking.
posted by lepus at 7:35 AM on September 9 [6 favorites]
If you aren’t in a state that offers decent health insurance to individuals I have no idea what they are thinking.
posted by lepus at 7:35 AM on September 9 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for all your perspectives!
I’m in Illinois. I don’t know what the state offers as I’ve always gotten health insurance through my employer. They have 90 employees, so intermod’s link is interesting.
posted by Vatnesine at 8:12 AM on September 9
I’m in Illinois. I don’t know what the state offers as I’ve always gotten health insurance through my employer. They have 90 employees, so intermod’s link is interesting.
posted by Vatnesine at 8:12 AM on September 9
Illinois has good marketplace plans. Lepus and daisyace may be onto the answer.
posted by Mid at 10:10 AM on September 9
posted by Mid at 10:10 AM on September 9
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posted by lapis at 9:23 PM on September 8 [11 favorites]