Do friends have each other's backs?
September 2, 2024 2:57 PM Subscribe
I have someone in my past who makes up very nasty lies about me and tells them to at least one person I've known for 30+ years. It bothers me that the friend of decades hangs out with this person and I've told them so. (My friend met the liar through me.) Friend thinks it's none of my business and I'm overreacting. After about 10 years of this, with the lies still coming, I recently decided to break off the 30+ year friendship. Am I being unreasonable?
The friend says it's not up to me who she's friends with. I agree. However, it's up to me who I am friends with and I don't want to be friends with someone who'll accept this kind of behavior from someone else.
To give context, these are not little lies, but elaborate, slanderous lies and the friend agrees that they're lies.
The friend says it's not up to me who she's friends with. I agree. However, it's up to me who I am friends with and I don't want to be friends with someone who'll accept this kind of behavior from someone else.
To give context, these are not little lies, but elaborate, slanderous lies and the friend agrees that they're lies.
How do you find out about these lies?
I don't know the liar or what kind of lies these are so I can't say categorically that I wouldn't keep seeing the liar if I were her, but it seems like I'd at least shoot down conversations with the liar about you. Why do they even talk about you in the first place?
posted by trig at 3:17 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
I don't know the liar or what kind of lies these are so I can't say categorically that I wouldn't keep seeing the liar if I were her, but it seems like I'd at least shoot down conversations with the liar about you. Why do they even talk about you in the first place?
posted by trig at 3:17 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
Is there some pressing reason that she is friends with this person? Like, this person is socially vulnerable in some way, could really use a friend and is widely recognized as someone who cannot control their lying, so your friend is really doing something more like "I know Joe is an alcoholic and I want to support him in the hopes that he will get help and stop rather than abandoning him"?
Otherwise it seems like being friends with someone who intentionally makes up and retails elaborate slanderous lies isn't that great, even if they weren't about you. I have some friends with personality quirks, some of which I view as counterproductive, but that's sort of part of the "we are all imperfect" side of things - an adult telling elaborate lies about people in our social circles would put me right off, and I'd really question why a friend of mine was friends with that kind of person.
I broke off a deteriorating long-time friendship shortly before the pandemic. I'm sad about it and I still remember all the really good things about the earlier years of our friendship. At the same time, I try to imagine maintaining the friendship with each of us being our contemporary selves and I can see that it wouldn't work. Someone doesn't have to be a terrible human for a friendship to fail.
posted by Frowner at 3:18 PM on September 2 [4 favorites]
Otherwise it seems like being friends with someone who intentionally makes up and retails elaborate slanderous lies isn't that great, even if they weren't about you. I have some friends with personality quirks, some of which I view as counterproductive, but that's sort of part of the "we are all imperfect" side of things - an adult telling elaborate lies about people in our social circles would put me right off, and I'd really question why a friend of mine was friends with that kind of person.
I broke off a deteriorating long-time friendship shortly before the pandemic. I'm sad about it and I still remember all the really good things about the earlier years of our friendship. At the same time, I try to imagine maintaining the friendship with each of us being our contemporary selves and I can see that it wouldn't work. Someone doesn't have to be a terrible human for a friendship to fail.
posted by Frowner at 3:18 PM on September 2 [4 favorites]
If your friend was believing the lies, that would be one thing, but since they’re not…to me I would be like, ok whatever?
I don’t think you’re an asshole for ending the friendship but I also don’t really see why it matters, so long as the friend understands they are lies.
posted by tubedogg at 3:29 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
I don’t think you’re an asshole for ending the friendship but I also don’t really see why it matters, so long as the friend understands they are lies.
posted by tubedogg at 3:29 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
How are you finding out about these very nasty lies? Is your friend telling you about them? Because in that case, there's a very simple solution that does not involve breaking off the friendship: tell your friend that you don't want to hear anything that the nasty person tells her about you. If she can't respect that, then you have a legitimate reason to break off the friendship.
posted by heatherlogan at 3:50 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 3:50 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
Best answer: "The friend says it's not up to me who she's friends with. I agree. However, it's up to me who I am friends with and I don't want to be friends with someone who'll accept this kind of behavior from someone else."
You are 100% correct in this. I would choose not to remain friends with someone who wants to have a friendship with a person who wants to hurt me.
posted by Dolley at 4:02 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
You are 100% correct in this. I would choose not to remain friends with someone who wants to have a friendship with a person who wants to hurt me.
posted by Dolley at 4:02 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
Is it possible these two have developed a romantic attraction?
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:03 PM on September 2
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:03 PM on September 2
While you're not unreasonable, I will say I have caused myself grief feeling frustrated about friends spending time with other former friends who I feel have behaved very badly. And in the end, I can't control what they do, it's impossible to have the full context, and I wish I had instead just chosen not to discuss the badly behaved former friend with them.
posted by lookoutbelow at 4:13 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
posted by lookoutbelow at 4:13 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
I have maintained friendships and connections with people who have stayed close to people who have been cruel, abusive or otherwise terrible to me. I have always regretted it in the end. I will only be friends with people that I know I can trust. I recommend the slow fade.
posted by pazazygeek at 4:16 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
posted by pazazygeek at 4:16 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
I'm trying to imagine having a friend who habitually makes up nasty lies about another friend. Maybe "nasty" is in the eye of the beholder, but if we're talking about things most people would consider problematic if true and slanderous if not, I don't know why I'd want to spend time with someone who 1) frequently tells lies, and 2) spreads nasty rumors about someone I care about. Like, yeah, my other friend doesn't get to tell me who to spend time with, but spending time with the liar/rumor spreader is a choice to tolerate that behavior, which suggests I don't actually care that much about my other friend. It would be a deal-breaker for me if someone couldn't or wouldn't speak respectfully about a friend of mine they didn't like. It would also be a deal-breaker for me if a friend kept hanging out with someone who, during those hangouts, consistently made nasty comments about me. To answer your title question, yes, friends should have each other's backs.
posted by theotherdurassister at 4:30 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
posted by theotherdurassister at 4:30 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
You’re absolutely not being unreasonable in walking away, but it wouldn’t be particularly unreasonable for you to stay friends either.
In any case, in your shoes I would walk away and if asked I would say “I don’t need this energy in my life.“
P.S. 10 years is a long time to have this going on and then have it become a problem. It might be worth considering what has changed to make you act on it now. Changing standards? Higher self-esteem? Looking for an excuse to dump the friend anyway?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:36 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
In any case, in your shoes I would walk away and if asked I would say “I don’t need this energy in my life.“
P.S. 10 years is a long time to have this going on and then have it become a problem. It might be worth considering what has changed to make you act on it now. Changing standards? Higher self-esteem? Looking for an excuse to dump the friend anyway?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:36 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
Yeah, this is the only reason I’ve slow-faded/ghosted a longtime friend. I just can’t see them the same way. It’s about integrity and it’s just plum painful that they see this person as an acceptable friend knowing the extent of their lies. And that they don’t stick up for me is a big reason. I stick up for my friends. I bet you do, too. Your friends should stick up for you!
Some things aren’t a “gotta hear both sides” situation where, even if it’s painful, you understand why your friend would want to be more neutral. Nasty elaborate lies is not neutral territory. Also why does she want to be friends with someone like this anyway? Doesn’t your friend understand that she could be in your position if the liar decides to target her next? It’s just a matter of time.
posted by kapers at 4:39 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
Some things aren’t a “gotta hear both sides” situation where, even if it’s painful, you understand why your friend would want to be more neutral. Nasty elaborate lies is not neutral territory. Also why does she want to be friends with someone like this anyway? Doesn’t your friend understand that she could be in your position if the liar decides to target her next? It’s just a matter of time.
posted by kapers at 4:39 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
I really wonder why on earth your friend has spent ten years passing along those lies to you, and in your shoes I think I'd be a lot more upset about that than the existence of the friendship. But you get to draw the line you want to draw, and if you don't want this friend in your life anymore that's fine. Your now-former friend does not have to agree that it's reasonable or appropriate. You get to decide this unilaterally.
posted by Stacey at 5:35 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Stacey at 5:35 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
My take is that if we assume that your friend is participating by being there in an ongoing slanderous set of lies and fabrications about you, I would walk on anyone like that. They participate by being there, giving this person implicit permission to continue their deceit. Ten years of this? Walk and don't look back.
posted by diode at 6:57 PM on September 2
posted by diode at 6:57 PM on September 2
Just to add here, I was married to someone for a very long time. Our divorce followed a shocking, awful head injury that, even as he reovered from it and the injuries that came along with it just fine, changed my ex's personality (which is documented in my Ask history). It sort of took the lid off of his sense of a need for propriety. That was bad in some ways, because he became very impulsive (albeit in a way that felt to him like becoming his true self). But it was also--and I shudder to say this from the high ground of long hindsight--good, for the same reason. He was no longer afraid to tell me that he'd been having affairs almost the entire time we'd been together. Maybe worse, a couple of the other men were friends and acquaintances of mine. Worst of all, my ex told me in almost gleeful terms how much of a thrill he got from managing to keep this all hidden from me, even though I apparently almost caught him in the act on more than one occasion.
Learning all this really took me apart. Thank you therapy and thank you good family and friends and kids, and thank you to the blunting tools our brains have available to respond to emotional anguish over time. But... I was unprepared for the experience of some of our mutual friends staying friends with my ex after all of this. I couldn't compute staying friends with someone if I'd known this about them. It took painful, diligent work to arrive at the decision, but I did make an intentional cut to disconnect from four people who I'd previously considered Very Close Friends (and more who were in the tangential, occasional friend zone). I did this silently. I didn't make a demonstration out of the decision, I jsut stopped getting in touch with these people. When they would call I wouldn't answer. When they would email I wouldn't respond. And so on.
Another terrible reality: it doesn't take long for the illusion of close friendship to evaporate when you take the work you do to maintain that relationship out of the equation. It is a kind of bitter medicine to understand, through the likely anemic or limited efforts on the part of these other people to be present in your life, that the friendship experience may have been more self-generated than we'd like to have believed.
And alas, c'est la vie, life goes on, and you feel better for having made a difficult decision that allows you to set down one of the burdens you can choose to set down.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:32 AM on September 4 [2 favorites]
Learning all this really took me apart. Thank you therapy and thank you good family and friends and kids, and thank you to the blunting tools our brains have available to respond to emotional anguish over time. But... I was unprepared for the experience of some of our mutual friends staying friends with my ex after all of this. I couldn't compute staying friends with someone if I'd known this about them. It took painful, diligent work to arrive at the decision, but I did make an intentional cut to disconnect from four people who I'd previously considered Very Close Friends (and more who were in the tangential, occasional friend zone). I did this silently. I didn't make a demonstration out of the decision, I jsut stopped getting in touch with these people. When they would call I wouldn't answer. When they would email I wouldn't respond. And so on.
Another terrible reality: it doesn't take long for the illusion of close friendship to evaporate when you take the work you do to maintain that relationship out of the equation. It is a kind of bitter medicine to understand, through the likely anemic or limited efforts on the part of these other people to be present in your life, that the friendship experience may have been more self-generated than we'd like to have believed.
And alas, c'est la vie, life goes on, and you feel better for having made a difficult decision that allows you to set down one of the burdens you can choose to set down.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 5:32 AM on September 4 [2 favorites]
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If she doesn't have a better reason for staying friends with a person who is out to harm you than 'Don't tell me what to do' then she doesn't get to be your friend. And as you noted, you do have control over that.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:15 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]