This Potential Suitor Makes Me Feel like Taj Mahal. Thoughts from Guys?
August 30, 2024 10:09 PM Subscribe
Thank you for reading! I am 55(f) and hetero.
There is this acquaintance who appears interested in me. He is charming, funny, smart, speaks well, a tech bro (I am ADHD and a bit autistic, and have always loved fellow nerds.) Attractive.
And yet I am utterly unconvinced. Can you help me unpack this?
Here are the things about him:
. He always mentions the fact that his ex-wife and I are Asian and from the same country
. He said some nerds are so strategic they can never just let attraction work naturally if they are interested in a woman. He said for example in college he used to contrive it so that a girl would think she picked a seat close to him when he had set it up that way
. He asked me what my long-term life goals are. I said to paint somethings I love, since that is my ultimate passion. He then said, "I am living in an apartment and I have to decide what to do."
. We see each other in a casual social setting regulary. He knows my last name because I gave it to everyone in the group. He has never given me his.
. He badmouths his ex-wife regularly (just like my xh, who cheated on me and initiated the divorce, did and does), but then told me recently that his divorce is quite recent. (Where I live you can look up divorces.)
Last but not least -- I have been a fairly lucky person in that I'd never lacked for male attention. Out of all the men who had ever shown interest in me, this guy pays me a fairly obvious amount of attention like they had, and yet I feel an actual void behind that interest.
We have had a lot of conversations. And yet I don't sense any real curiosity or even preference towards me.
I almost feel like when he looks at me I am just a convenient crutch. A problem to be solved strategically. Or his own personal Taj Mahal. To his ex-wife.
It's eerie because I am left to wonder: why bother showing interest when there is no feeling? Does he even know that he is utterly indifferent in my company?
What do you think? I am especially curious about how men might see this.
Here are the things about him:
. He always mentions the fact that his ex-wife and I are Asian and from the same country
. He said some nerds are so strategic they can never just let attraction work naturally if they are interested in a woman. He said for example in college he used to contrive it so that a girl would think she picked a seat close to him when he had set it up that way
. He asked me what my long-term life goals are. I said to paint somethings I love, since that is my ultimate passion. He then said, "I am living in an apartment and I have to decide what to do."
. We see each other in a casual social setting regulary. He knows my last name because I gave it to everyone in the group. He has never given me his.
. He badmouths his ex-wife regularly (just like my xh, who cheated on me and initiated the divorce, did and does), but then told me recently that his divorce is quite recent. (Where I live you can look up divorces.)
Last but not least -- I have been a fairly lucky person in that I'd never lacked for male attention. Out of all the men who had ever shown interest in me, this guy pays me a fairly obvious amount of attention like they had, and yet I feel an actual void behind that interest.
We have had a lot of conversations. And yet I don't sense any real curiosity or even preference towards me.
I almost feel like when he looks at me I am just a convenient crutch. A problem to be solved strategically. Or his own personal Taj Mahal. To his ex-wife.
It's eerie because I am left to wonder: why bother showing interest when there is no feeling? Does he even know that he is utterly indifferent in my company?
What do you think? I am especially curious about how men might see this.
Not quite sure what the question is - you don't actually want to date him, so is the question just why he's kinda flirting but doesn't seem committed??
Ok, to spitball it:
His divorce is recent, he's not over it, someone has probably given him the advice to "get back on the horse", but he's doing it in a very rote way, because as above, he's still not over his divorce. Tada.
(And he's got a bunch of red flags so you don't want to date him anyway).
posted by Elysum at 11:12 PM on August 30 [34 favorites]
Ok, to spitball it:
His divorce is recent, he's not over it, someone has probably given him the advice to "get back on the horse", but he's doing it in a very rote way, because as above, he's still not over his divorce. Tada.
(And he's got a bunch of red flags so you don't want to date him anyway).
posted by Elysum at 11:12 PM on August 30 [34 favorites]
Your intuition is telling you this guy is a walking red flag. Listen to your gut.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:19 PM on August 30 [15 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:19 PM on August 30 [15 favorites]
Additionally, some people just want attention in any form they can get it. You do not have to give this person any attention at all. It really is just that simple sometimes.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:22 PM on August 30 [5 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:22 PM on August 30 [5 favorites]
I am a guy a little bit older than you. From what you wrote, I have one word for him. Loser. Don't waste any more of your time on him. You said you have not lacked for male attention or suitors. Find one of them.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:30 PM on August 30 [6 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:30 PM on August 30 [6 favorites]
He doesn't seem to be over his ex. I find it creepy that he wants to complain about her and that he wants to compare you to her. Plus there's nothing in your question that sounds like he is interested in you as a person, or for that matter that you're interested in him.
posted by zompist at 11:33 PM on August 30 [6 favorites]
posted by zompist at 11:33 PM on August 30 [6 favorites]
I almost feel like when he looks at me I am just a convenient crutch. A problem to be solved strategically. Or his own personal Taj Mahal. To his ex-wife
It does not sound to me like your reported plusses: charming, funny, attractive- in any way make up for your own misgivings about how he is approaching you. Being charming, attractive, funny are great attributes for those who want to play the field while not really engaging.
posted by rongorongo at 11:47 PM on August 30 [4 favorites]
It does not sound to me like your reported plusses: charming, funny, attractive- in any way make up for your own misgivings about how he is approaching you. Being charming, attractive, funny are great attributes for those who want to play the field while not really engaging.
posted by rongorongo at 11:47 PM on August 30 [4 favorites]
I'm male, older than you and hetero/cis.
I know it can be a bit unfair for us to generalize about this guy based on a few of your notes. But still, let me generalize about this guy based on a few of your notes:
Forget about him! He may be attractive, charming even, but he sounds like bad news.
The other observations above are spot on. He doesn't seem to have processed his divorce and his ex. But also, and this is important: He seems rather creepy, bordering on the sociopathic.
What kind of a man (or a person) is proud to say they'd "contrive it so that a girl would think she picked a seat close to him when he had set it up that way"? Someone who is not only creepily manipulative, but also someone who doesn't think said girl would choose to sit there without some covert tactic. Also someone who doesn't respect said girl's preferences, or at least doesn't trust her. And someone who is so self-absorbed they don't even see there's something wrong about bragging about this kind of behavior.
What kind of a man asks you to share your most cherished ambitions and then doesn't even address them, instead changes the subject to their own situation? Someone who either doesn't care about you and your goals, or is at best unable to engage with you as a full person.
He seems like a classic narcissist, who looks at you but doesn't see a real person to engage with, because they are consumed by their own drama and only care about your participation if it will enhance their situation or reflect well on them.
And look: Don't just take my word for it (or the chorus of voices above). Just notice that - there you are - already doing all the emotional labor, going so far as posting on AskMefi, and you haven't even started a relationship with this guy. Meanwhile, has he done anything for you? Is he posting on AskMefi asking for help on how to make you happy? No. He hasn't even shared his name with you (which is creepy, since he knows yours).
Most likely, he's blissfully unaware. He's probably complaining to some other poor woman about his ex as we speak, and otherwise focusing on what's important to him: Himself.
Lastly, unless you're absolutely desperate for a relationship - any relationship - stay away: Life is short, too short to waste your time, your self esteem and your heart, on what seems to be at worst a toxic relationship and at best a lot of work for not much in return.
Choosing to try it with this kind of person is what an insecure teenager would do, someone without experience and who thinks every possibility has to be pursued. But you're not an inexperienced teenager. You're an adult, you've loved and had your heart broken, and importantly you could have your pick of other attractive, interesting and quirky men. A better man will be along shortly, and you will look back on this guy and shudder to think you might have wasted your time on a creep.
posted by Bigbootay. Tay! Tay! Blam! Aargh... at 12:25 AM on August 31 [20 favorites]
I know it can be a bit unfair for us to generalize about this guy based on a few of your notes. But still, let me generalize about this guy based on a few of your notes:
Forget about him! He may be attractive, charming even, but he sounds like bad news.
The other observations above are spot on. He doesn't seem to have processed his divorce and his ex. But also, and this is important: He seems rather creepy, bordering on the sociopathic.
What kind of a man (or a person) is proud to say they'd "contrive it so that a girl would think she picked a seat close to him when he had set it up that way"? Someone who is not only creepily manipulative, but also someone who doesn't think said girl would choose to sit there without some covert tactic. Also someone who doesn't respect said girl's preferences, or at least doesn't trust her. And someone who is so self-absorbed they don't even see there's something wrong about bragging about this kind of behavior.
What kind of a man asks you to share your most cherished ambitions and then doesn't even address them, instead changes the subject to their own situation? Someone who either doesn't care about you and your goals, or is at best unable to engage with you as a full person.
He seems like a classic narcissist, who looks at you but doesn't see a real person to engage with, because they are consumed by their own drama and only care about your participation if it will enhance their situation or reflect well on them.
And look: Don't just take my word for it (or the chorus of voices above). Just notice that - there you are - already doing all the emotional labor, going so far as posting on AskMefi, and you haven't even started a relationship with this guy. Meanwhile, has he done anything for you? Is he posting on AskMefi asking for help on how to make you happy? No. He hasn't even shared his name with you (which is creepy, since he knows yours).
Most likely, he's blissfully unaware. He's probably complaining to some other poor woman about his ex as we speak, and otherwise focusing on what's important to him: Himself.
Lastly, unless you're absolutely desperate for a relationship - any relationship - stay away: Life is short, too short to waste your time, your self esteem and your heart, on what seems to be at worst a toxic relationship and at best a lot of work for not much in return.
Choosing to try it with this kind of person is what an insecure teenager would do, someone without experience and who thinks every possibility has to be pursued. But you're not an inexperienced teenager. You're an adult, you've loved and had your heart broken, and importantly you could have your pick of other attractive, interesting and quirky men. A better man will be along shortly, and you will look back on this guy and shudder to think you might have wasted your time on a creep.
posted by Bigbootay. Tay! Tay! Blam! Aargh... at 12:25 AM on August 31 [20 favorites]
It sounds to me like you've already decided not to get involved but that you're interested in why he's behaving the way he is.
It's eerie because I am left to wonder: why bother showing interest when there is no feeling? As a cishet male who is in the same age group as you, I agree with Elysum that the most likely reason is that he's not over his divorce. That said, some of your description indicates that he may be neurodivergent in some way which might complicate how he's relating with you.
Does he even know that he is utterly indifferent in my company? It's impossible to answer this without knowing more about him but I guess the answer really doesn't matter; if he does know it, then ew sociopathic tendencies stay away and if he doesn't know it then ew, emotionally unaware stay away.
And +1 for everything Bigbootay said.
posted by ashbury at 12:31 AM on August 31 [6 favorites]
It's eerie because I am left to wonder: why bother showing interest when there is no feeling? As a cishet male who is in the same age group as you, I agree with Elysum that the most likely reason is that he's not over his divorce. That said, some of your description indicates that he may be neurodivergent in some way which might complicate how he's relating with you.
Does he even know that he is utterly indifferent in my company? It's impossible to answer this without knowing more about him but I guess the answer really doesn't matter; if he does know it, then ew sociopathic tendencies stay away and if he doesn't know it then ew, emotionally unaware stay away.
And +1 for everything Bigbootay said.
posted by ashbury at 12:31 AM on August 31 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you so much everyone! @zompist you homed in on it, like several of you: why would I even contemplate this in the first place?
I think he represents a possibility I rather dread, as an aging person. I don't ever remember this happening before. I'd encountered PUA artists and players, even though they tend to steer clear of me. I was too brusque and belligerent for the former, and too tediously grave for the latter. But even then there was some verve in the exchange. I now wonder whether this is the new normal. All that I will be is an asterisk to my fellow human beings. They no longer find me of substance or interest, but purely as a gratifier of something they are even too listless to assert.
Thank you for your bracing briskness. I love this community. I'll take what you say to heart. I still don't trust anyone. I'm afraid I'd also reduced him to an asterisk. I will endeavor to let everyone's humanity in, and just be.
posted by Intagliatedtaro at 12:33 AM on August 31 [3 favorites]
I think he represents a possibility I rather dread, as an aging person. I don't ever remember this happening before. I'd encountered PUA artists and players, even though they tend to steer clear of me. I was too brusque and belligerent for the former, and too tediously grave for the latter. But even then there was some verve in the exchange. I now wonder whether this is the new normal. All that I will be is an asterisk to my fellow human beings. They no longer find me of substance or interest, but purely as a gratifier of something they are even too listless to assert.
Thank you for your bracing briskness. I love this community. I'll take what you say to heart. I still don't trust anyone. I'm afraid I'd also reduced him to an asterisk. I will endeavor to let everyone's humanity in, and just be.
posted by Intagliatedtaro at 12:33 AM on August 31 [3 favorites]
why are you even considering a guy with more red flags than a communist parade
posted by Jacqueline at 12:38 AM on August 31 [8 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 12:38 AM on August 31 [8 favorites]
There's plenty of fish in the sea. I would say, "throw this one back," but you haven't even fished for him, he's just leapt out of the water onto your boat and is flopping around grabbing your attention as he gasps for air. He's not even hooked on your line, you weren't even finished baiting your hook. You say that you are never wanting for male attention- So don't worry about losing or rejecting his attention.
Anyway, throw this one back. Kindly if possible. He's not like doing anything very wrong, he's just being human and spilling his own emotional stuff onto your life, as one is wont to do in the recent aftermath of a breakup.
posted by panhopticon at 12:40 AM on August 31 [9 favorites]
Anyway, throw this one back. Kindly if possible. He's not like doing anything very wrong, he's just being human and spilling his own emotional stuff onto your life, as one is wont to do in the recent aftermath of a breakup.
posted by panhopticon at 12:40 AM on August 31 [9 favorites]
I now wonder whether this is the new normal. All that I will be is an asterisk to my fellow human beings. They no longer find me of substance or interest, but purely as a gratifier of something they are even too listless to assert. Intagliatedtaro, I'm still happily married and so I'm not qualified to speak on what the singles scene is like when one is in their mid-50's but don't let this one situation get you down and do your best to be kind to yourself.
posted by ashbury at 1:02 AM on August 31 [2 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 1:02 AM on August 31 [2 favorites]
"He badmouths his ex-wife regularly"
That in itself is a reason not to engage. He's not 30, so he doesn't have years to spend in therapy working out his resentments (and his place in what created them). You don't have to analyze it any further.
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 2:23 AM on August 31 [11 favorites]
That in itself is a reason not to engage. He's not 30, so he doesn't have years to spend in therapy working out his resentments (and his place in what created them). You don't have to analyze it any further.
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 2:23 AM on August 31 [11 favorites]
Sounds like he decided that you're wife shaped and wouldn't you know it, he has a wife shaped hole in his life.
So many men are happy to see women only as a projection of what they need, rather than whole people. Isn't it so sad for them when they learn there's a real person with agency behind their little fantasy.
posted by phunniemee at 2:30 AM on August 31 [34 favorites]
So many men are happy to see women only as a projection of what they need, rather than whole people. Isn't it so sad for them when they learn there's a real person with agency behind their little fantasy.
posted by phunniemee at 2:30 AM on August 31 [34 favorites]
I now wonder whether this is the new normal. All that I will be is an asterisk to my fellow human beings. They no longer find me of substance or interest, but purely as a gratifier of something they are even too listless to assert.
This seems like a pointless way of thinking. Taking a random data point and generalizing it to build up the most depressing possible vision of the future? Sometimes my brain likes to present these visionary hallucinations to me, and I have to tell it to either give me more useful/helpful/pleasant inventions or go distract itself with something because clearly it has nothing good to contribute at the moment.
Sure, maybe all you'll be in the future is an asterisk to every single person you come across, with no exceptions. Or maybe you'll win the lottery, or the world will explode, or as you age you'll attract more and more cats to you, or you'll be an inspiration to every single person you come across, with no exceptions. Why bother coming up with these random scenarios?
The only useful thing to think about here, in my opinion, is whether you're prone to this kind of catastrophic thinking in general and, if so, what you want to do about it.
posted by trig at 3:42 AM on August 31 [8 favorites]
This seems like a pointless way of thinking. Taking a random data point and generalizing it to build up the most depressing possible vision of the future? Sometimes my brain likes to present these visionary hallucinations to me, and I have to tell it to either give me more useful/helpful/pleasant inventions or go distract itself with something because clearly it has nothing good to contribute at the moment.
Sure, maybe all you'll be in the future is an asterisk to every single person you come across, with no exceptions. Or maybe you'll win the lottery, or the world will explode, or as you age you'll attract more and more cats to you, or you'll be an inspiration to every single person you come across, with no exceptions. Why bother coming up with these random scenarios?
The only useful thing to think about here, in my opinion, is whether you're prone to this kind of catastrophic thinking in general and, if so, what you want to do about it.
posted by trig at 3:42 AM on August 31 [8 favorites]
The guys who are like this that I have met are constantly on the look out for someone who will listen to them and validate them. There's a very good chance that you have not been singled out as interesting in particular, just as the most interesting person in the room that he can get to talk to him.
I'm glad you noticed that you were ambivalent and picked up on the red flags, and that you came here to discuss them with us. He's warm, chatty, friendly, willing to disclose so you can know him more, willing to ask questions... so there are reasons you were interested. It's a good thing his red flags were so obvious that you didn't get pulled in. And that's a testament to your own character. Pretty much everyone would love to have other people focus on them and acknowledge them and seek them out. It feels good. You didn't let the good feelings the situation created override your judgment, and you spotted the behaviour that would make getting closer to him a miserable experience.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:11 AM on August 31 [7 favorites]
I'm glad you noticed that you were ambivalent and picked up on the red flags, and that you came here to discuss them with us. He's warm, chatty, friendly, willing to disclose so you can know him more, willing to ask questions... so there are reasons you were interested. It's a good thing his red flags were so obvious that you didn't get pulled in. And that's a testament to your own character. Pretty much everyone would love to have other people focus on them and acknowledge them and seek them out. It feels good. You didn't let the good feelings the situation created override your judgment, and you spotted the behaviour that would make getting closer to him a miserable experience.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:11 AM on August 31 [7 favorites]
He makes you feel like Taj Mahal? Well, it is beautiful... And romantic, and attractive. But ultimately erected as a memorial to someone who died.
As so many have said above, nope, don't begin or encourage a romantic relationship with him.
posted by 15L06 at 6:03 AM on August 31 [5 favorites]
As so many have said above, nope, don't begin or encourage a romantic relationship with him.
posted by 15L06 at 6:03 AM on August 31 [5 favorites]
Wife-shaped hole, yes. Especially if he's selected you for having similar demographics to his ex. Ugh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:30 AM on August 31 [10 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:30 AM on August 31 [10 favorites]
He makes you feel like Taj Mahal? Well, it is beautiful... And romantic, and attractive. But ultimately erected as a memorial to someone who died.
Yes! It's also an object, a thing, rather than a human being. I understand what you mean by this metaphor but your subconscious is telling you some important things about this guy and his situation.
Tl;dr: NEXT!
posted by rpfields at 8:20 AM on August 31 [2 favorites]
Yes! It's also an object, a thing, rather than a human being. I understand what you mean by this metaphor but your subconscious is telling you some important things about this guy and his situation.
Tl;dr: NEXT!
posted by rpfields at 8:20 AM on August 31 [2 favorites]
I think you should run like the wind.
posted by jgirl at 9:07 AM on August 31 [2 favorites]
posted by jgirl at 9:07 AM on August 31 [2 favorites]
I think he simply has no idea what he is doing romantically. He retains all his other social skills and is perhaps otherwise a functioning adult but his ability to form and nurture a new relationship has atrophied. Or it never existed, and he is truly adrift.
posted by zenon at 9:16 AM on August 31 [1 favorite]
posted by zenon at 9:16 AM on August 31 [1 favorite]
He badmouths his ex-wife regularly
Whether or not he thinks he is your suitor, this is a big no.
Nope nope nope nope nope right out of there.
posted by zippy at 9:55 AM on August 31 [5 favorites]
Whether or not he thinks he is your suitor, this is a big no.
Nope nope nope nope nope right out of there.
posted by zippy at 9:55 AM on August 31 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Y'all are eagle-eyed and crystal minds! I can even tell you the sequel to my taking your advice, as the status quo I describe has been ongoing now for a year.
The narcissist traits, the love atrophy from outsourcing his emotional life to his wife, the wife-shaped keyhole (lol), the fantasy that is Pygmalion's Galatea, the neurodivergence of someone who lost his father when he was young and whose mother parentified him, a poor rural lad who saw a loved one die in a fire...the trauma, neglect, patriarchal chains, and the pentup-emotional labor of a lifetime -- they are all there.
Theophile Gautier says that "I consider woman, after the manner of the ancients, as a beautiful slave designed for our pleasure...To me she is still something dissimilar and inferior that we worship and play with, a toy which is more intelligent than if it were of ivory or gold, and which gets up of itself if we let it fall."
The gold-and-ivory fantasy looked upon him with affectionate sympathy and blank doubt. I knew in my head what you all say is true, I just cannot ever be sure that I am being fair. So your advice is invaluable.
He watches me like a computer. I am either one or zero. Into him or not, as you have pointed out. He's sad but it's not about me. It's shocking to me that, 50 years after college coeducation, so many male peers cannot have a friendly connection to a female.
I knew he had picked me as his living monument to what he thought was a dead marriage, which has him dancing attendance like a puppet. His trauma he let leak over one year. I already suspect as much.
What leaves me pensive is how such men pretend to adore women when they think us weak if useful, deluded and therefore a guilty pleasure. For sure such a relationship would fall to the ground and *won't* be able to pick iteslf up again.
And are not most straight men programmed to be this way? I pick this up often when I try to date. It's the patriarchy; not their fault.
And why such men, and by golly the dating space is bountiful with them, never pause to think that when they pay the compliment of shredding their exes to a stranger, that she may already be forlornly familiar with that underhandedness, from the wrong end of the divide?
And how alike I must be to him to some extent, since I am also not over my own marriage. Probably why I feel some lingering affection for his welfare.
I should use my catastrophic thinking to bulldoze the obstacles in my path. You are so right.
May your weekend be as radiant as the goodwill and hope you had handed to me so freely.
posted by Intagliatedtaro at 11:06 AM on August 31 [9 favorites]
The narcissist traits, the love atrophy from outsourcing his emotional life to his wife, the wife-shaped keyhole (lol), the fantasy that is Pygmalion's Galatea, the neurodivergence of someone who lost his father when he was young and whose mother parentified him, a poor rural lad who saw a loved one die in a fire...the trauma, neglect, patriarchal chains, and the pentup-emotional labor of a lifetime -- they are all there.
Theophile Gautier says that "I consider woman, after the manner of the ancients, as a beautiful slave designed for our pleasure...To me she is still something dissimilar and inferior that we worship and play with, a toy which is more intelligent than if it were of ivory or gold, and which gets up of itself if we let it fall."
The gold-and-ivory fantasy looked upon him with affectionate sympathy and blank doubt. I knew in my head what you all say is true, I just cannot ever be sure that I am being fair. So your advice is invaluable.
He watches me like a computer. I am either one or zero. Into him or not, as you have pointed out. He's sad but it's not about me. It's shocking to me that, 50 years after college coeducation, so many male peers cannot have a friendly connection to a female.
I knew he had picked me as his living monument to what he thought was a dead marriage, which has him dancing attendance like a puppet. His trauma he let leak over one year. I already suspect as much.
What leaves me pensive is how such men pretend to adore women when they think us weak if useful, deluded and therefore a guilty pleasure. For sure such a relationship would fall to the ground and *won't* be able to pick iteslf up again.
And are not most straight men programmed to be this way? I pick this up often when I try to date. It's the patriarchy; not their fault.
And why such men, and by golly the dating space is bountiful with them, never pause to think that when they pay the compliment of shredding their exes to a stranger, that she may already be forlornly familiar with that underhandedness, from the wrong end of the divide?
And how alike I must be to him to some extent, since I am also not over my own marriage. Probably why I feel some lingering affection for his welfare.
I should use my catastrophic thinking to bulldoze the obstacles in my path. You are so right.
May your weekend be as radiant as the goodwill and hope you had handed to me so freely.
posted by Intagliatedtaro at 11:06 AM on August 31 [9 favorites]
He badmouths his ex-wife regularly
Super easy tell for somebody that nobody should ever even contemplate dating. Right up there with being rude and/or condescending to service staff. Pretty common for those two traits end up displayed by the same person.
People who don't treat people in general as equals won't treat their partners as equals. Reddest of red red flags.
posted by flabdablet at 12:47 PM on September 1 [1 favorite]
Super easy tell for somebody that nobody should ever even contemplate dating. Right up there with being rude and/or condescending to service staff. Pretty common for those two traits end up displayed by the same person.
People who don't treat people in general as equals won't treat their partners as equals. Reddest of red red flags.
posted by flabdablet at 12:47 PM on September 1 [1 favorite]
are not most straight men programmed to be this way?
Programmed? No. Acculturated? Yeah, too many.
I pick this up often when I try to date.
I hope and trust that when you do pick that up, those dates then become very short.
It's the patriarchy; not their fault.
It's the patriarchy and it's their fault.
Any man who fails to acknowledge the influence of the patriarchy and/or buys into the toxic gender hierarchy it seeks to normalize is going to be far harder work to hang out with than the tiny residue of pleasure to be had from his company is worth.
posted by flabdablet at 12:59 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
Programmed? No. Acculturated? Yeah, too many.
I pick this up often when I try to date.
I hope and trust that when you do pick that up, those dates then become very short.
It's the patriarchy; not their fault.
It's the patriarchy and it's their fault.
Any man who fails to acknowledge the influence of the patriarchy and/or buys into the toxic gender hierarchy it seeks to normalize is going to be far harder work to hang out with than the tiny residue of pleasure to be had from his company is worth.
posted by flabdablet at 12:59 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
why such men, and by golly the dating space is bountiful with them, never pause to think that when they pay the compliment of shredding their exes to a stranger, that she may already be forlornly familiar with that underhandedness, from the wrong end of the divide?
Because manbabies like that conceptualize women as mere accessories, not as actual people, so they have no associated theory of mind for them.
It doesn't even occur to these fucknuckles that you actually have a mind, so the question of what you might think about anything they have to say never occurs to them either. When an oxygen waster like this is shredding his ex to you he's not actually describing her, he's trying to instruct you how to describe her, and what he's hoping to get back from you is some signal that would validate his raft of self-constructed and utterly spurious grievances. Disengage and flee as rapidly as possible.
Me: 62, cis het male.
posted by flabdablet at 1:17 PM on September 1 [3 favorites]
Because manbabies like that conceptualize women as mere accessories, not as actual people, so they have no associated theory of mind for them.
It doesn't even occur to these fucknuckles that you actually have a mind, so the question of what you might think about anything they have to say never occurs to them either. When an oxygen waster like this is shredding his ex to you he's not actually describing her, he's trying to instruct you how to describe her, and what he's hoping to get back from you is some signal that would validate his raft of self-constructed and utterly spurious grievances. Disengage and flee as rapidly as possible.
Me: 62, cis het male.
posted by flabdablet at 1:17 PM on September 1 [3 favorites]
I knew in my head what you all say is true, I just cannot ever be sure that I am being fair.
The upside of hearing somebody shred their ex is that it cancels any need to be fair. Dude's options instantly become put a fucking sock in it or fuck off, latter strongly preferred.
posted by flabdablet at 1:23 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
The upside of hearing somebody shred their ex is that it cancels any need to be fair. Dude's options instantly become put a fucking sock in it or fuck off, latter strongly preferred.
posted by flabdablet at 1:23 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
Did not read all the answers, but there is a genre of recently divorced men who are looking to engage with women to process their feelings about the divorce and everything else in life. They may only know how to share feelings with women, and specifically a woman with whom they share a life. Divorce can leave these men reeling, because it was unexpected and they are hurt, and that turns to anger when they can't understand or process their feelings. And they often speak very negatively about their exes.
Regardless, someone talking about a current or former spouse negatively, especially when done so casually (and not, like, in a vulnerable conversation with a friend), are folks I try to stay away from. It's not even that it's a huge red flag. It's a huge turnoff, in both friends and potential partners. I think it's great to stay far far away from those folks.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:57 PM on September 1 [4 favorites]
Regardless, someone talking about a current or former spouse negatively, especially when done so casually (and not, like, in a vulnerable conversation with a friend), are folks I try to stay away from. It's not even that it's a huge red flag. It's a huge turnoff, in both friends and potential partners. I think it's great to stay far far away from those folks.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:57 PM on September 1 [4 favorites]
I am a woman but if life taught me anything (applicable to this post), here it is:
-If a guy bad mouths his ex too much, that is a concerning factor. I met many guys whose ego was so bruised that they wanted a rebound asap just to feel better about themselves. It is less relevant who you are and what you are after. That might be why him mentioning your and his ex's country of origin doesn't sit well with you
-It seems like he is looking for "benefits" he can get from you rather than who you really are, like painting the flat. I suppose he has not returned the question.
-If you are not sure about it this early on, rather go for other suitors who will not give you the feeling you have.
Good luck :)
posted by Salicornia at 9:57 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]
-If a guy bad mouths his ex too much, that is a concerning factor. I met many guys whose ego was so bruised that they wanted a rebound asap just to feel better about themselves. It is less relevant who you are and what you are after. That might be why him mentioning your and his ex's country of origin doesn't sit well with you
-It seems like he is looking for "benefits" he can get from you rather than who you really are, like painting the flat. I suppose he has not returned the question.
-If you are not sure about it this early on, rather go for other suitors who will not give you the feeling you have.
Good luck :)
posted by Salicornia at 9:57 AM on September 7 [2 favorites]
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