To call the cops or not call the cops or...
June 26, 2024 12:45 PM Subscribe
My friend was assaulted on the street a few weeks ago, NYPD barely gave a shit. Yesterday she saw the guy on my block and he's here again today. What to do or not to do to protect my own safety seeing as how she doesn't want to get involved?
A few weeks ago in our Brooklyn neighborhood, my female friend was followed and physically assaulted by an obviously mentally disturbed stranger on the street--thankfully some construction workers nearby came to help her before it went any further. She called the police and, in classic NYPD fashion, they shrugged it off and tried to discourage her from making a report, but she did anyway. There hasn't been any followup from them since.
Yesterday she was driving by my place and called me saying that she saw the man lingering on my block and I went out and got a pic of him and sent out to a few of my neighbors telling them to keep an eye out (this is during the daytime on a busy corner, so I felt plenty safe). I asked her if she wanted me to call the police to report she'd seen him, and she said she really didn't because she doesn't have the energy to deal with it (she has a history of trauma and other assaults, so I fully respect where she's coming from).
The man is back today, displaying some disturbed behaviors (talking to himself and aggressively gesturing to things that aren't there, etc). There is a men's shelter a few blocks away so I assume he's currently a resident there as there are a few other guys that hang around but none that I've ever had any issue as I believe they have a right to be hanging out where ever as long as they aren't assaulting or actively intimidating anyone.
My issue is my own safety, having a known violent guy outside my house. Do I:
a) call the precinct and tell them that this guy assaulted my friend -- if they do bother to actually follow up, then it's possible they'll pull her in to ID him or whatever, causing her the exact distress she is trying to avoid;
b) nothing, bc the cops won't do shit anyway or...
c) some other alternative?
Some people suggested the new 988 crisis line which I and others have called recently for other cases where there was someone emotional disturbed and being aggressive, and have been told they are only a suicide hotline and to call the police, so please don't suggest that as it's a proven dead end for this kind of situation.
I am also cognizant of the fact that I am a white woman in a now mostly post-gentrified neighborhood and the man in question is an unhoused black man with mental illness, but the fact is that he is actually a violent dude. Of course I don't just want him thrown in Rikers and not given the help/resources that he needs, but we know him getting real help after a white woman calling the cops on him is unlikely in the world we currently live in. But I also don't want to not do anything and end up in a similar situation as my friend (I am taking precautions but I've lived in this city for 15 years and I refuse to be afraid of every strange man on the street).
What would you do? I would especially appreciate input from fellow New Yorkers here that understand just how useless the cops here can actually be in this kind of situation.
A few weeks ago in our Brooklyn neighborhood, my female friend was followed and physically assaulted by an obviously mentally disturbed stranger on the street--thankfully some construction workers nearby came to help her before it went any further. She called the police and, in classic NYPD fashion, they shrugged it off and tried to discourage her from making a report, but she did anyway. There hasn't been any followup from them since.
Yesterday she was driving by my place and called me saying that she saw the man lingering on my block and I went out and got a pic of him and sent out to a few of my neighbors telling them to keep an eye out (this is during the daytime on a busy corner, so I felt plenty safe). I asked her if she wanted me to call the police to report she'd seen him, and she said she really didn't because she doesn't have the energy to deal with it (she has a history of trauma and other assaults, so I fully respect where she's coming from).
The man is back today, displaying some disturbed behaviors (talking to himself and aggressively gesturing to things that aren't there, etc). There is a men's shelter a few blocks away so I assume he's currently a resident there as there are a few other guys that hang around but none that I've ever had any issue as I believe they have a right to be hanging out where ever as long as they aren't assaulting or actively intimidating anyone.
My issue is my own safety, having a known violent guy outside my house. Do I:
a) call the precinct and tell them that this guy assaulted my friend -- if they do bother to actually follow up, then it's possible they'll pull her in to ID him or whatever, causing her the exact distress she is trying to avoid;
b) nothing, bc the cops won't do shit anyway or...
c) some other alternative?
Some people suggested the new 988 crisis line which I and others have called recently for other cases where there was someone emotional disturbed and being aggressive, and have been told they are only a suicide hotline and to call the police, so please don't suggest that as it's a proven dead end for this kind of situation.
I am also cognizant of the fact that I am a white woman in a now mostly post-gentrified neighborhood and the man in question is an unhoused black man with mental illness, but the fact is that he is actually a violent dude. Of course I don't just want him thrown in Rikers and not given the help/resources that he needs, but we know him getting real help after a white woman calling the cops on him is unlikely in the world we currently live in. But I also don't want to not do anything and end up in a similar situation as my friend (I am taking precautions but I've lived in this city for 15 years and I refuse to be afraid of every strange man on the street).
What would you do? I would especially appreciate input from fellow New Yorkers here that understand just how useless the cops here can actually be in this kind of situation.
So, both I and my caregiver with my 6 year old son have separately been assaulted before by mentally deranged men on the street and have been down this road. I also have a cousin who is an NYPD officer. He has told me they cannot do anything unless we are over 60 years old (seniors). He blamed part of it on bail reform because it is not worth the police officer's time to put someone for something where no injury was caused and that I had no evidence. I did file a report but it was deemed harassment which isn't really counted as crime in NYC. Food for thought when you look at the recent stats saying violent crime has gone down in NYC. It hasn't - it's just not being counted or reported. I now carry a body cam on me in a nifty small bag with see through panels where I can record all my events in the day and erase them when the card gets full.
posted by ichimunki at 2:45 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
posted by ichimunki at 2:45 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
unfortunately, i think there's not much you *can* do other than focus on what makes *you* feel safe - maybe that's crossing the street or walking faster whenever you see him, carrying around a safety whistle, or maybe talking about this in therapy or moving to a different neighborhood if this continues and your vigilance becomes unbearable. harm reduction!
he is not a problem you can solve - you can't make him disappear, permanently incarcerated or involuntarily institutionalized. you can't be guarantee that he won't be violent again. i'm sorry this happened to your friend and can imagine how unsettling this would feel - and also, this is just one of the realities of living in this city and this country today.
it's not fair. it's not great for anyone. and the 'solutions' for this problem are systemic, policy oriented, and long term, and go above and beyond this one individual in your neighborhood.
you can either learn to live with it even though it sucks and hope it gets better (maybe he will disappear for a while, maybe he won't be violent again, maybe he will be violent again and you will witness or experience it, there's no way to predict the future and you can't protect yourself against what may or might not happen), and/or move. the options might seem less urgent with time. you're allowed to be scared and unsettled.
posted by lightgray at 3:03 PM on June 26 [8 favorites]
he is not a problem you can solve - you can't make him disappear, permanently incarcerated or involuntarily institutionalized. you can't be guarantee that he won't be violent again. i'm sorry this happened to your friend and can imagine how unsettling this would feel - and also, this is just one of the realities of living in this city and this country today.
it's not fair. it's not great for anyone. and the 'solutions' for this problem are systemic, policy oriented, and long term, and go above and beyond this one individual in your neighborhood.
you can either learn to live with it even though it sucks and hope it gets better (maybe he will disappear for a while, maybe he won't be violent again, maybe he will be violent again and you will witness or experience it, there's no way to predict the future and you can't protect yourself against what may or might not happen), and/or move. the options might seem less urgent with time. you're allowed to be scared and unsettled.
posted by lightgray at 3:03 PM on June 26 [8 favorites]
Im sorry that happened to your friend and that you are dealing with this. I live in north Brooklyn and there is a fellow who has been on the streets here for many years- in and out of jail- attacking people daily, and nothing can really be done. When I see him I definitely just move to another side of the street and go about my way. lightgray is right, the solutions are beyond what you can solve. It’s an issue of severe mental illness. Focus on situational awareness and whatever else you can to feel safe.
posted by catrae at 3:11 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
posted by catrae at 3:11 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
I really appreciate your assessment of privilege / power in this situation! I think you're correct that he'd be in a lot of danger from police. Obviously, if someone is being violent, that needs to be prevented - but the risk of fatal police violence to HIM is quite high if the police are called. Of everyone on your block that he could possibly have an incident with, I think the odds are that HE is still the most likely person to be killed (ie, even if he physically attacks someone, even in that moment, HE is still the one who's most at risk of being shot dead, by police, rather than the legal rights of being arrested and charged that all people constitutionally deserve, even when they harm others).
And of course if the police aren't called now, someone else might call them on him soon anyway. It's not a great situation to take action, and it may not be a stable situation even if you do nothing. SO - in your shoes, I would:
- Collaborate with your friend to type out what happened in a factual, neutral way, without any names. Print it out. Go to the shelter, show them the photo you have, and ask if they know him.
Tell them what happened, again in the calmest way possible, and give them your report so they can pass it on to his doctor - this ensures the story stays as accurate as possible, no "broken telephone" escalating the narrative.
Hopefully maybe the shelter will have some pull to get him re-hospitalized, or get his medication adjusted, or at least discourage him from being outside until he stabilizes.
- Look up the non-emergency mental health crisis lines that serve your area.
Save them in your phone and text them to your neighbours so they can efficiently save them too. Maybe start the name of the hotline with A_ or B_ so it stays at the top of everyone's contact list rather than getting buried.
That way, if he does have another incident, there's a much greater chance of having people present who can call THAT number first, instead of jumping straight to the police.
- Plan, visualize, and rehearse what you might say or do if you see him doing something that could be dangerous. Real life is unplannable of course, but I still think planning can still help keep us calm and centred if something does occur.
Thank you again, truly, for looking out for this man - I wish more people were like you!!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:20 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
And of course if the police aren't called now, someone else might call them on him soon anyway. It's not a great situation to take action, and it may not be a stable situation even if you do nothing. SO - in your shoes, I would:
- Collaborate with your friend to type out what happened in a factual, neutral way, without any names. Print it out. Go to the shelter, show them the photo you have, and ask if they know him.
Tell them what happened, again in the calmest way possible, and give them your report so they can pass it on to his doctor - this ensures the story stays as accurate as possible, no "broken telephone" escalating the narrative.
Hopefully maybe the shelter will have some pull to get him re-hospitalized, or get his medication adjusted, or at least discourage him from being outside until he stabilizes.
- Look up the non-emergency mental health crisis lines that serve your area.
Save them in your phone and text them to your neighbours so they can efficiently save them too. Maybe start the name of the hotline with A_ or B_ so it stays at the top of everyone's contact list rather than getting buried.
That way, if he does have another incident, there's a much greater chance of having people present who can call THAT number first, instead of jumping straight to the police.
- Plan, visualize, and rehearse what you might say or do if you see him doing something that could be dangerous. Real life is unplannable of course, but I still think planning can still help keep us calm and centred if something does occur.
Thank you again, truly, for looking out for this man - I wish more people were like you!!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:20 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
* - Look up the non-emergency mental health crisis lines that serve your area.
(I see you said 998 is no good, but there might be others - worth looking at least? Or maybe 998 would actually have advice of who to call if not them?)
In case it sparks your research or suggestions from anyone else here, my city there are a few options including
- a downtown mental hospital's emergency line
- a "community crisis service" which i think is designed for this kind of thing
- the non-emergency police number (probably still a risk but likely better than the emergency police)
Hope something sounds workable.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:32 PM on June 26
(I see you said 998 is no good, but there might be others - worth looking at least? Or maybe 998 would actually have advice of who to call if not them?)
In case it sparks your research or suggestions from anyone else here, my city there are a few options including
- a downtown mental hospital's emergency line
- a "community crisis service" which i think is designed for this kind of thing
- the non-emergency police number (probably still a risk but likely better than the emergency police)
Hope something sounds workable.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:32 PM on June 26
Is pepper spray legal where you are?
Having a can of pepper spray in your hand or in your pocket might help you defend yourself against this man if he gets dangerously violent again.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 3:33 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
Having a can of pepper spray in your hand or in your pocket might help you defend yourself against this man if he gets dangerously violent again.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 3:33 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
I heartily agree with rock steady's advice.
If that doesn't pan out: in my lower manhattan neighborhood, there is a social services org that has a street outreach team, so if this were happening on my block, I would reach out to them for advice and help. You could also ask your local city council member or house of worship for their recommendations for resources.
I appreciate the thoughtfulness and care with which you're approaching this situation.
posted by minervous at 5:38 PM on June 26 [2 favorites]
If that doesn't pan out: in my lower manhattan neighborhood, there is a social services org that has a street outreach team, so if this were happening on my block, I would reach out to them for advice and help. You could also ask your local city council member or house of worship for their recommendations for resources.
I appreciate the thoughtfulness and care with which you're approaching this situation.
posted by minervous at 5:38 PM on June 26 [2 favorites]
311 mobile street outreach team / homeSTAT
posted by spacebologna at 6:20 PM on June 26
posted by spacebologna at 6:20 PM on June 26
Also is you called 988 from an area code that isn’t native to NYC you’re not going to get through to NYC 988. NYC 988 should be able to send out a crisis response team.
posted by spacebologna at 6:26 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
posted by spacebologna at 6:26 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
I don't know NY, but I work with a lot of folks who are chronically homeless and some with severe mental illness and some with harmful behaviors. Out here, folks with the profile you describe are usually very well known to local agencies and often have a case manager of some sort assigned to support them (although you would never know it!).
I agree with the above ideas:
Find the local mental health crisis line and see if they know this guy. Ask if they know if he has a case manager. If possible, try to talk to that person and lobby for more frequent touches.
Go in person to the shelter and have the same convo (they may not talk to you though worth a try).
If this person continues to assault people, consider calling your local city council person (not sure the NYC equivalent.. whoever is locally elected and feels they have to answer to their constituent). Share your concern for your AND this person's safety and lobby for intensive case management or other supportive services.
posted by latkes at 9:50 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
I agree with the above ideas:
Find the local mental health crisis line and see if they know this guy. Ask if they know if he has a case manager. If possible, try to talk to that person and lobby for more frequent touches.
Go in person to the shelter and have the same convo (they may not talk to you though worth a try).
If this person continues to assault people, consider calling your local city council person (not sure the NYC equivalent.. whoever is locally elected and feels they have to answer to their constituent). Share your concern for your AND this person's safety and lobby for intensive case management or other supportive services.
posted by latkes at 9:50 PM on June 26 [4 favorites]
Mefimailed you. And yes please do report the police’s non-interest to your council person.
posted by knobknosher at 8:21 AM on June 27
posted by knobknosher at 8:21 AM on June 27
I feel like calling the shelter is probably the safest and most effective strategy. What a rotten situation. I’m sorry you have to deal with it.
posted by Suedeltica at 11:05 AM on June 27
posted by Suedeltica at 11:05 AM on June 27
He’s been covered, going to focus on you now.
I don’t need to tell you to maintain situational awareness, I’m sure you’re not letting yourself get distracted. Keep it up until he goes away, which he likely will at some point, unless he’s a fixture in the area.
I’ve heard some get whistles with strobe lights, not sure how effective they are. Tbh if you can’t run, you’re stuck with someone who may or may not be energized by substances so I would keep the focus on staying alert, taking another route or hiding out in a store until he gets distracted by something else, and never making eye contact.
The police will probably ignore the complaint if they’re like Toronto police.
(Have been assaulted in similar situations three times. Sick of it too.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 3:26 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I don’t need to tell you to maintain situational awareness, I’m sure you’re not letting yourself get distracted. Keep it up until he goes away, which he likely will at some point, unless he’s a fixture in the area.
I’ve heard some get whistles with strobe lights, not sure how effective they are. Tbh if you can’t run, you’re stuck with someone who may or may not be energized by substances so I would keep the focus on staying alert, taking another route or hiding out in a store until he gets distracted by something else, and never making eye contact.
The police will probably ignore the complaint if they’re like Toronto police.
(Have been assaulted in similar situations three times. Sick of it too.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 3:26 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I live in philly and we have something called mobile crisis, where you can call about someone in mental health distress to a point where they could be a danger to themselves or others, and crisis workers (not police)will come out to assess and will hospitalize the person if needed.im sure NYC has something similar; you can search "mobile crisis NYC"
I believe that 988 is supposed to be set up to connect o to mobile crisis...maybe not in every location or maybe the person answering didn't know that.
However I also agree with others that calling tlor notifying the shelter first may be the best, most direct option here.
posted by bearette at 4:38 AM on June 28
I believe that 988 is supposed to be set up to connect o to mobile crisis...maybe not in every location or maybe the person answering didn't know that.
However I also agree with others that calling tlor notifying the shelter first may be the best, most direct option here.
posted by bearette at 4:38 AM on June 28
In our Brooklyn neighborhood, we email the city councilman, sometimes also the state senator. They follow up with the PD and things get dealt with pretty fast.
The official advice from NYPD is to call 911 when you see someone who is sufficiently unwell that they may imminently harm someone. Based on what you've described, I think it would be ok to call.
I would also recommend attending your local Build a Block meetings. You will get to know your NCOs and they can give you their cell numbers so you know personally who is likely to respond to your call, and can ensure you think they have the nuance and compassion necessary for the job.
posted by luckdragon at 11:09 AM on June 29
The official advice from NYPD is to call 911 when you see someone who is sufficiently unwell that they may imminently harm someone. Based on what you've described, I think it would be ok to call.
I would also recommend attending your local Build a Block meetings. You will get to know your NCOs and they can give you their cell numbers so you know personally who is likely to respond to your call, and can ensure you think they have the nuance and compassion necessary for the job.
posted by luckdragon at 11:09 AM on June 29
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by Rock Steady at 1:02 PM on June 26 [23 favorites]