We want to see the cool ancient Roman stuff!
June 8, 2024 6:58 AM Subscribe
We love Roman history and I want to take my husband to see the best of it. Our challenges is we are probably a bit more crowd-averse than average and our time line is likely April 2025... it's Easter week.
Thinking about dividing a 10 day trip in Italy -- Rome for only 3-4 days to see a few highlights, and then somewhere else less chaotic. My thoughts are seeing Herculaneum and Pompeii and staying someplace near by that is a bit of an oasis. Any suggests for towns, villages, etc to stay to see lots of great historic stuff or have pretty easy access to it?
Thinking about dividing a 10 day trip in Italy -- Rome for only 3-4 days to see a few highlights, and then somewhere else less chaotic. My thoughts are seeing Herculaneum and Pompeii and staying someplace near by that is a bit of an oasis. Any suggests for towns, villages, etc to stay to see lots of great historic stuff or have pretty easy access to it?
Here is a recent thread about the pros and cons of traveling down to Pompeii from Rome in a pretty similar scenario. It sounds though like you are aiming for more time down south, hence more realistic.
Even so, considering the time of year, I'd be tempted to hit some slightly more niche spots closer to Rome, or to the north, and find a nice place to stay within reach of all of them. Cerveteri (Etruscans ruins); Hadrian's Villa; Ostia. That said, if this is a once-in-a-lifetime thing, go to Pompeii and Herculanium.
I have stayed in this hotel and it was fine then-- although we got the stink-eye for not just wanting to stay two hours--but it looks much more expensive and corporate now.
posted by BibiRose at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2024 [2 favorites]
Even so, considering the time of year, I'd be tempted to hit some slightly more niche spots closer to Rome, or to the north, and find a nice place to stay within reach of all of them. Cerveteri (Etruscans ruins); Hadrian's Villa; Ostia. That said, if this is a once-in-a-lifetime thing, go to Pompeii and Herculanium.
I have stayed in this hotel and it was fine then-- although we got the stink-eye for not just wanting to stay two hours--but it looks much more expensive and corporate now.
posted by BibiRose at 7:22 AM on June 8, 2024 [2 favorites]
More votes for Cerveteri (Etruscan ruins), Hadrian's Villa, Ostia, Pompeii, and Herculaneum.
Having been in Rome before around that time of year, I concur that Easter Week is a good week to be concerned about crowds. If that's when you must go, do take a look at calendars of events and make sure you're not merely avoiding the Vatican, as other activities (Via Crucis, for instance) will involve substantial crowding elsewhere. That said, if this is a once-in-a-lifetime thing, there's no substitute for the Vatican, St. Peter's, etc.
posted by cupcakeninja at 7:58 AM on June 8, 2024 [1 favorite]
Having been in Rome before around that time of year, I concur that Easter Week is a good week to be concerned about crowds. If that's when you must go, do take a look at calendars of events and make sure you're not merely avoiding the Vatican, as other activities (Via Crucis, for instance) will involve substantial crowding elsewhere. That said, if this is a once-in-a-lifetime thing, there's no substitute for the Vatican, St. Peter's, etc.
posted by cupcakeninja at 7:58 AM on June 8, 2024 [1 favorite]
The great thing about colonialism is that you can find lots of Roman history outside Italy. This list gives some starting points across France, Cyprus, Turkey, Germany, Croatia and Spain. It doesn't include Nimes in France or Evora in Portugal. There are lots of other sites outside the super famous ones, both within and outside Italy.
posted by biffa at 12:37 PM on June 8, 2024
posted by biffa at 12:37 PM on June 8, 2024
Best answer: It’s a given that you can’t beat Rome and Herculaneum for that Roman stuff and perhaps you’ve had enough of France after your recent trip, but if avoiding crowds at Easter is crucial for you, consider the Rhone valley. Logistics are easy and costs for hotels lower than in Rome during the holiday period. You can take the TGV non-stop from CDG T2 to Lyon in two hours with hotels walking distance or a quick tram ride from Part Dieu and Perrache stations. Then you can continue on down the Rhone by train to Vienne and Orange and Arles depending on how many ancient sites you’re up for.
Picking up on biffa’s answer, consider:
https://lugdunum.grandlyon.com/en/
https://en.vienne-condrieu.com/patrimoine-culturel/museum-and-gallo-roman-sites-of-saint-romain-en-gal-saint-romain-en-gal/
https://www.historyhit.com/locations/vienne-roman-theatre/
https://theatre-antique.com/
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/164/
The museum in Vienne is a highlight of this trip and the theater in Orange may be the best preserved scaenae frons in all of Europe. Check the calendars for all of the theaters as your dates get closer. You may also find a spectacle that interests you.
posted by FerrisWren at 4:31 PM on June 8, 2024
Picking up on biffa’s answer, consider:
https://lugdunum.grandlyon.com/en/
https://en.vienne-condrieu.com/patrimoine-culturel/museum-and-gallo-roman-sites-of-saint-romain-en-gal-saint-romain-en-gal/
https://www.historyhit.com/locations/vienne-roman-theatre/
https://theatre-antique.com/
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/164/
The museum in Vienne is a highlight of this trip and the theater in Orange may be the best preserved scaenae frons in all of Europe. Check the calendars for all of the theaters as your dates get closer. You may also find a spectacle that interests you.
posted by FerrisWren at 4:31 PM on June 8, 2024
So, yeah, Rome is going to be crowded, no matter what. But last time I was there (2019?), the biggest crowds tend to hit the coliseum. The Forum and the Palatine involve more walking and require a bit more effort to understand what you're looking at, so those would certainly be less intensely crowded.
I second the votes for Pompeii and Herculaneum; many of the other sites are good but for density of preservation there is really nothing like them. And, yeah, repeating a lot of details from Bibirose's link up-thread...
I would strongly encourage you to get a personal guide for Pompeii; the signage is poor and a good guide can make a huge difference. We booked a five hour tour and ended up spending another five hours after we were done with her, which is a lot, but it's an entire city, you know?
Herculaneum is smaller and more compact, which makes it a bit easier. And absolutely worth a day.
It's worth noting that many of the best-preserved artifacts from Pompeii are in the Archaeological Museum in Naples, which has irregular hours and the occasional tendency to close galleries for part of the day. But if you want to see the frescoes and such, that's where they are.
We did a day in Naples and then used Sorrento as our home base, which was okay but involved a certain amount of waiting for trains. You can use the Circumvesuviana railway to get around the Bay of Naples, but be aware that it is not speedy and definitely can have long lines and unexpected delays. That said it might still be the best way to get around. Ercolano, the modern town built over Herculaneum, is not a great tourist base.
We used Amalfi as our "decompression" stay after the intensity of all that, which was good; of the towns of the Amalfi Coast it was the least-ridiculously-taken-over by the tourist trade. But not a good jumping off spot for Roman sites.
posted by graphweaver at 5:20 PM on June 8, 2024 [2 favorites]
I second the votes for Pompeii and Herculaneum; many of the other sites are good but for density of preservation there is really nothing like them. And, yeah, repeating a lot of details from Bibirose's link up-thread...
I would strongly encourage you to get a personal guide for Pompeii; the signage is poor and a good guide can make a huge difference. We booked a five hour tour and ended up spending another five hours after we were done with her, which is a lot, but it's an entire city, you know?
Herculaneum is smaller and more compact, which makes it a bit easier. And absolutely worth a day.
It's worth noting that many of the best-preserved artifacts from Pompeii are in the Archaeological Museum in Naples, which has irregular hours and the occasional tendency to close galleries for part of the day. But if you want to see the frescoes and such, that's where they are.
We did a day in Naples and then used Sorrento as our home base, which was okay but involved a certain amount of waiting for trains. You can use the Circumvesuviana railway to get around the Bay of Naples, but be aware that it is not speedy and definitely can have long lines and unexpected delays. That said it might still be the best way to get around. Ercolano, the modern town built over Herculaneum, is not a great tourist base.
We used Amalfi as our "decompression" stay after the intensity of all that, which was good; of the towns of the Amalfi Coast it was the least-ridiculously-taken-over by the tourist trade. But not a good jumping off spot for Roman sites.
posted by graphweaver at 5:20 PM on June 8, 2024 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Rome will be busiest in the centre but there are so, so many places outside the centre that people never even consider. The place is absolutely bursting with archaeological sites outside the Forum and Colosseum that no one realizes are there, plus tons outside of Rome proper. I think it'll be busy in the mainstream places but much less so elsewhere.
Some suggestions within Rome are the Baths of Caracalla, the Largo Argentina (with bonus cat sanctuary), the Centrale Montmartini sculpture museum, the Via Appia (if you are up for biking, it is super cool to bike along and there are lots of monuments, including aqueducts, along the way).
I think the main sites are, crowded or not, absolutely unmissable. Maybe they'll be less busy during the actual Easter mass? IMO St Peters and the Vatican museums aren't worth it, as a Roman archaeology nerd. It's just people rushing through a semi-cool museum on their way to the Sistine Chapel, making it kind of terrible when you're trying to look at what the popes stole. Walk through the forums. Admire the Colosseum from the outside - inside is fine but you've seen it and it's not much more exciting in real life. The Palatine Hill is great. The Capitoline Museums are fantastic.
Just outside of Rome, definitely Hadrian's Villa, and Cerveteri is really cool, but also consider Ostia Antica. It's the former port of ancient Rome that is much less fancy than Rome was and much more working class. The site is incredibly huge and there is so much still standing, including apartment blocks up to a few storeys and lots of amazing mosaics, plus the temples and such. It's really cool and easily reached by train from Rome or probably driving (I took the train).
I am much less in-person knowledgeable about southern-er Italy and Pompeii and Herculaneum remain on my bucket list, but another thing kind of near there that might not be on your radar that I have long wanted to visit is Paestum. There are three large mostly standing temples there that are actually Greek, but still quite amazing.
Some other considerations could be Sperlonga, south of Rome, where Emperor Tiberius's villa and sea grotto were, which has impressive 1st C CE sculptures. Probably a good stop for night one outside of Rome on your way to Pompeii and Herculaneum - it's just under two hours away in clear traffic. You could hit the Villa of Hadrian on your way there.
Alternatively, if you're considering another place to avoid the crowds of easter, there some great Roman sites in Croatia - Pula, Zadar, Split to name just a few. Pula has one of the largest surviving amphitheatres in the world and lots of other standing roman ruins. Zadar is a great little town that has a portion of the Roman forum still standing; it's beautiful. Split is the site of Diocletian's palace and much of the old town is actually built INSIDE the palace - it's pretty amazing. I have a master's in Classical Archaeology and Split was one of the things I was most excited to see in all my travels. Croatia also has similar food to Italy in lots of ways and really lovely people.
posted by urbanlenny at 5:54 PM on June 8, 2024 [3 favorites]
Some suggestions within Rome are the Baths of Caracalla, the Largo Argentina (with bonus cat sanctuary), the Centrale Montmartini sculpture museum, the Via Appia (if you are up for biking, it is super cool to bike along and there are lots of monuments, including aqueducts, along the way).
I think the main sites are, crowded or not, absolutely unmissable. Maybe they'll be less busy during the actual Easter mass? IMO St Peters and the Vatican museums aren't worth it, as a Roman archaeology nerd. It's just people rushing through a semi-cool museum on their way to the Sistine Chapel, making it kind of terrible when you're trying to look at what the popes stole. Walk through the forums. Admire the Colosseum from the outside - inside is fine but you've seen it and it's not much more exciting in real life. The Palatine Hill is great. The Capitoline Museums are fantastic.
Just outside of Rome, definitely Hadrian's Villa, and Cerveteri is really cool, but also consider Ostia Antica. It's the former port of ancient Rome that is much less fancy than Rome was and much more working class. The site is incredibly huge and there is so much still standing, including apartment blocks up to a few storeys and lots of amazing mosaics, plus the temples and such. It's really cool and easily reached by train from Rome or probably driving (I took the train).
I am much less in-person knowledgeable about southern-er Italy and Pompeii and Herculaneum remain on my bucket list, but another thing kind of near there that might not be on your radar that I have long wanted to visit is Paestum. There are three large mostly standing temples there that are actually Greek, but still quite amazing.
Some other considerations could be Sperlonga, south of Rome, where Emperor Tiberius's villa and sea grotto were, which has impressive 1st C CE sculptures. Probably a good stop for night one outside of Rome on your way to Pompeii and Herculaneum - it's just under two hours away in clear traffic. You could hit the Villa of Hadrian on your way there.
Alternatively, if you're considering another place to avoid the crowds of easter, there some great Roman sites in Croatia - Pula, Zadar, Split to name just a few. Pula has one of the largest surviving amphitheatres in the world and lots of other standing roman ruins. Zadar is a great little town that has a portion of the Roman forum still standing; it's beautiful. Split is the site of Diocletian's palace and much of the old town is actually built INSIDE the palace - it's pretty amazing. I have a master's in Classical Archaeology and Split was one of the things I was most excited to see in all my travels. Croatia also has similar food to Italy in lots of ways and really lovely people.
posted by urbanlenny at 5:54 PM on June 8, 2024 [3 favorites]
Repeating that if you go to Pompeii, you have to go to the museum in Naples, because that’s where all the stuff actually is. It puts Pompeii in an entirely different light.
posted by kerf at 7:55 AM on June 9, 2024
posted by kerf at 7:55 AM on June 9, 2024
Best answer: I am literally sitting in a hotel lobby in Rome, passing time till my bus departs for the airport. I've been here with students. Today, we went to the Trajan Market. I love the place, it's much better than Forum Romanum and Coliseum and it's completely quiet and almost empty. The students agreed, even saying it was the best part of the trip. Other great places for lovers of antiquity are Sta Costanza, an ancient mausoleum that is now mainly used for weddings, and the Ara Pacis Museum. Going deep down under San Clemente is very interesting, too.
Our focus is on architectural history, from Roman times to the present day, so we saw a lot of other stuff.
In general, I always tell my students not to worry about the tourists, except for at St. Peters and the Vatican, Forum Romanum and the Coliseum, lines aren't much of a problem anywhere, and until this year, we have always gone near Easter so the students could combine the study trip with a private holiday. That said, after COVID-19, the rules have changed and it is advisable to make reservations everywhere. My students said that with reservations, even the Vatican wasn't bad at all. I didn't go, and it is not included in our routes. Instead we visit the Saint John Lateran, where you can also visit the palace and the baptistery. It's another huge pilgrim church but much less crowded.
Other things less visited are St. Stefano Rotundo, and as other have said: Ostia Antica and Hadrians Villa. I strongly recommend! I also like Palestrina.
posted by mumimor at 8:37 AM on June 9, 2024 [1 favorite]
Our focus is on architectural history, from Roman times to the present day, so we saw a lot of other stuff.
In general, I always tell my students not to worry about the tourists, except for at St. Peters and the Vatican, Forum Romanum and the Coliseum, lines aren't much of a problem anywhere, and until this year, we have always gone near Easter so the students could combine the study trip with a private holiday. That said, after COVID-19, the rules have changed and it is advisable to make reservations everywhere. My students said that with reservations, even the Vatican wasn't bad at all. I didn't go, and it is not included in our routes. Instead we visit the Saint John Lateran, where you can also visit the palace and the baptistery. It's another huge pilgrim church but much less crowded.
Other things less visited are St. Stefano Rotundo, and as other have said: Ostia Antica and Hadrians Villa. I strongly recommend! I also like Palestrina.
posted by mumimor at 8:37 AM on June 9, 2024 [1 favorite]
YES Palestrina. I was trying to think of the name of that place for like half an hour yesterday! I almost emailed a friend from grad school to ask what the name of the place with the tiered Roman era staircase was after google was no help! Palestrina would be awesome and unlikely to be busy.
posted by urbanlenny at 12:20 PM on June 9, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by urbanlenny at 12:20 PM on June 9, 2024 [1 favorite]
if you visit the colosseum be sure to go early to avoid the crowds (8:30 am until 9:30 am ..
and avoid weekends
colosseum tours in rome offers options to skip the line with guides
posted by David1982 at 2:53 PM on November 23, 2024
and avoid weekends
colosseum tours in rome offers options to skip the line with guides
posted by David1982 at 2:53 PM on November 23, 2024
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posted by effluvia at 7:12 AM on June 8, 2024 [3 favorites]