What's it like living in Pennsylvania?
May 27, 2024 12:06 AM Subscribe
A company I would very much like to work for some day has its headquarters in Pittsburg... and a firm onsite/hybrid attendance policy. I'm curious about what it would be like for me, a lifelong SoCal girl, to move to Pittsburg. Hopefully I'd be working with a yearly income of about $180-200k. What culture shock might await me?
Culturally, Pittsburgh has two huge universities, and has benefited in the past from the generosity of steel magnates. It is also somewhat isolated in that the nearest big cities are in Ohio, and not that close.
It is unlike SoCal by having greenery in season, hot weather in the summer, cold weather in the winter. Winter driving is something to learn.
posted by SemiSalt at 4:32 AM on May 27 [4 favorites]
It is unlike SoCal by having greenery in season, hot weather in the summer, cold weather in the winter. Winter driving is something to learn.
posted by SemiSalt at 4:32 AM on May 27 [4 favorites]
Making that much money in Pittsburgh will allow you to go on vacation basically anywhere you want, or alternatively buy you enough opportunities for saving up a fuck you fund that you'll be able to easily cut and run if you find that you're deeply unhappy in two years. The COL adjustment so heavily in your favor will buy you a lot of opportunities even you decide not to stay long term.
posted by phunniemee at 5:19 AM on May 27 [13 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 5:19 AM on May 27 [13 favorites]
Fellow former Californian who recently visited Pittsburgh for a few days - food scene was delicious, with a decent amount of very good Asian food. Architecture was really neat! Driving around the city was incredibly terrifying, imagine trying to navigate a M.C. Escher illustration by vehicle. Roads go vertical, roads randomly present the option of unexpected bridge or tunnel, roads are cobblestone, seven roads are intersecting, aaaaa. Drivers there seem chill about it, so I assume you get used to it.
posted by Wavelet at 5:27 AM on May 27 [11 favorites]
posted by Wavelet at 5:27 AM on May 27 [11 favorites]
Pittsburgh (along with a lot of other rust belt cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit etc) have a very high index of "wow, that place was pretty great and didn't suck" after people visit the first time.
It's a very pretty place, there is significant culture and history to view, there is terririfc food, honestly other than the weather it will be an upgrade in many ways (and don't get me wrong, I love socal).
posted by chasles at 5:45 AM on May 27 [13 favorites]
It's a very pretty place, there is significant culture and history to view, there is terririfc food, honestly other than the weather it will be an upgrade in many ways (and don't get me wrong, I love socal).
posted by chasles at 5:45 AM on May 27 [13 favorites]
Best answer: I've lived in SoCal for a few years and now live in PA.
There are several obvious differences -- climate, proximity to ocean, so I won't write about those. SoCal can mean a lot of things, but Pittsburgh is a city, so I'm assuming you'd be living in the city, and that's different from a lot of SoCal living. Even most city-ish areas in SoCal are not as dense as East Coast cities. And cities on the East Coast grew up before the roads did, whereas in SoCal there are more bigger thoroughfares through and into urban areas.
Traffic is a big difference -- SoCal has a lot more random sprawly traffic jams that the East Coast doesn't have. There's rush hour here to be sure, but you're much less likely to spend hours on the 415 on a Sunday afternoon just because. This means you can actually go further in PA on average, while in SoCal there are drives/commutes you wouldn't even consider because of traffic. I'm sure you can find a bad commute in Pa/Pitt, but not as easily as in SoCal.
I'm not as sure about Pitt specifically, but public transportation and trains are a much more widely used thing in East Coast cities.
People. PA is filled with white people. SoCal is a lot more diverse and accepting of it. PA is a swing state because it's 3-ish city areas that are islands amongst seas of red. There are for-real confederate flags here, lots of MAGA hats and big pickups with the flags. Cities less so, but suburban PA is just ... white like the midwest. And that's who populates the cities. This is my own experience only, and I'm in a mood, so. But you need to know this; it's not a minor difference. If this is important to you, aim to live in the city, not the burbs.
posted by Dashy at 6:31 AM on May 27 [12 favorites]
There are several obvious differences -- climate, proximity to ocean, so I won't write about those. SoCal can mean a lot of things, but Pittsburgh is a city, so I'm assuming you'd be living in the city, and that's different from a lot of SoCal living. Even most city-ish areas in SoCal are not as dense as East Coast cities. And cities on the East Coast grew up before the roads did, whereas in SoCal there are more bigger thoroughfares through and into urban areas.
Traffic is a big difference -- SoCal has a lot more random sprawly traffic jams that the East Coast doesn't have. There's rush hour here to be sure, but you're much less likely to spend hours on the 415 on a Sunday afternoon just because. This means you can actually go further in PA on average, while in SoCal there are drives/commutes you wouldn't even consider because of traffic. I'm sure you can find a bad commute in Pa/Pitt, but not as easily as in SoCal.
I'm not as sure about Pitt specifically, but public transportation and trains are a much more widely used thing in East Coast cities.
People. PA is filled with white people. SoCal is a lot more diverse and accepting of it. PA is a swing state because it's 3-ish city areas that are islands amongst seas of red. There are for-real confederate flags here, lots of MAGA hats and big pickups with the flags. Cities less so, but suburban PA is just ... white like the midwest. And that's who populates the cities. This is my own experience only, and I'm in a mood, so. But you need to know this; it's not a minor difference. If this is important to you, aim to live in the city, not the burbs.
posted by Dashy at 6:31 AM on May 27 [12 favorites]
Best answer: I loved living in Pittsburgh but a couple things probably await you:
1. Pittsburgh has more cloudy and rainy days than Portland or Seattle. It can be dreary there.
2. You can't exaggerate how hilly it is. Still a great biking city.
3. It's not very diverse, although the universities help with this a bit.
4. It *is* very racist. Think southern style racism. And very segregated.
5. Pittsburgh is pretty small. There's like only one or two of every thing you might expect a city to have. It has all the things you expect a real city to have, even a Ballet, but it does not have a variety of options. After living there for 2 years I had been, basically, to every interesting restauraunt. A new place opening was very exciting because we could try something new.
But on the plus side, PGH has amazing parks, really interesting people, a solid DIY, no fucks given attitude, a culture of repair and reuse, a great punk scene, two world class universities, an amazing library system, beautiful countryside. It's extremely walkable, even more bikeable (once you get strong enough for the hills), and densely packed with interesting neighborhoods each with their own bit of charm.
posted by dis_integration at 8:45 AM on May 27 [9 favorites]
1. Pittsburgh has more cloudy and rainy days than Portland or Seattle. It can be dreary there.
2. You can't exaggerate how hilly it is. Still a great biking city.
3. It's not very diverse, although the universities help with this a bit.
4. It *is* very racist. Think southern style racism. And very segregated.
5. Pittsburgh is pretty small. There's like only one or two of every thing you might expect a city to have. It has all the things you expect a real city to have, even a Ballet, but it does not have a variety of options. After living there for 2 years I had been, basically, to every interesting restauraunt. A new place opening was very exciting because we could try something new.
But on the plus side, PGH has amazing parks, really interesting people, a solid DIY, no fucks given attitude, a culture of repair and reuse, a great punk scene, two world class universities, an amazing library system, beautiful countryside. It's extremely walkable, even more bikeable (once you get strong enough for the hills), and densely packed with interesting neighborhoods each with their own bit of charm.
posted by dis_integration at 8:45 AM on May 27 [9 favorites]
The only road near Pittsburgh that you'll put the word "the" in front of is "the Pennsylvania Turnpike", a toll road that is badly outdated, overpriced, and the main artery going east.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:46 AM on May 27 [2 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:46 AM on May 27 [2 favorites]
The air quality's kind of crap, but depending on where you are in SoCal that might not be a big change (especially if you average out the wildfires).
posted by wintersweet at 8:46 AM on May 27
posted by wintersweet at 8:46 AM on May 27
Best answer: People. PA is filled with white people.
4. It *is* very racist. Think southern style racism. And very segregated.
Yes. I was coming in here to say that very thing. I was at Pitt for a couple of years in the mid-90s, so obviously my impressions are quite dated, but it sounds like nothing much has budged. I found yinzers to be racist as HELL. I heard shit from a bunch of people without even the southern style "I'm not racist but" preamble I was used to. They'd take about a millisecond to determine that yes, this is a fellow white person, and they'd just launch into some incredible Birth-of-a-Nation-sounding diatribe.
They seem not to have had to learn anything at all because of the segregation. And they just assume that if somebody reads white, they're from a white place and are, like them, likely to react to anyone notwhite as an exotic and likely dangerous animal. The impression I got was that there was actually a great diversity of people, but that the segregation was so rigid, everyone was stuck, so everywhere you went it felt like it was 1940-something. And this was before 9-11. I have no doubt it got exponentially worse after the century turned because that's what happened in the South.
Neighborhoods I managed to form impressions of include:
Oakland: mostly white undergraduates. Lots of beer, puking, and screaming.
Shadyside: mostly white yuppies, Pitt grad students, and Carnegie Mellon students: lots of overpriced coffee and wine bars and people proud of their peonies (which my friend and I used to steal on our drunken trek back from the wine bars to her house-share).
Squirrel Hill: Jewish people and grad students. Good bars, good restaurants, a good movie theater.
The Southside: Polish and Italian people. Excellent bars, excellent food (the strip!). Cheap enough to live decently, and if you can get something on the hillside looking over the gorgeous little city, nowhere more beautiful to live. (Plus if you don't have a car you can save even more money because you don't need to join a gym: you get ripped out of your mind just walking up the hill every day to get home.)
The Hill: Black people. (so no idea: never went there--segregation. But August Wilson grew up there. Everyone in Pgh, even yinzers, is fiercely proud of August Wilson.)
Thing to do before going: Read the Michael Chabon Pgh books, especially The Mysteries of Pittsburgh. Then when you get there, find the hidden neighborhood.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:47 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]
4. It *is* very racist. Think southern style racism. And very segregated.
Yes. I was coming in here to say that very thing. I was at Pitt for a couple of years in the mid-90s, so obviously my impressions are quite dated, but it sounds like nothing much has budged. I found yinzers to be racist as HELL. I heard shit from a bunch of people without even the southern style "I'm not racist but" preamble I was used to. They'd take about a millisecond to determine that yes, this is a fellow white person, and they'd just launch into some incredible Birth-of-a-Nation-sounding diatribe.
They seem not to have had to learn anything at all because of the segregation. And they just assume that if somebody reads white, they're from a white place and are, like them, likely to react to anyone notwhite as an exotic and likely dangerous animal. The impression I got was that there was actually a great diversity of people, but that the segregation was so rigid, everyone was stuck, so everywhere you went it felt like it was 1940-something. And this was before 9-11. I have no doubt it got exponentially worse after the century turned because that's what happened in the South.
Neighborhoods I managed to form impressions of include:
Oakland: mostly white undergraduates. Lots of beer, puking, and screaming.
Shadyside: mostly white yuppies, Pitt grad students, and Carnegie Mellon students: lots of overpriced coffee and wine bars and people proud of their peonies (which my friend and I used to steal on our drunken trek back from the wine bars to her house-share).
Squirrel Hill: Jewish people and grad students. Good bars, good restaurants, a good movie theater.
The Southside: Polish and Italian people. Excellent bars, excellent food (the strip!). Cheap enough to live decently, and if you can get something on the hillside looking over the gorgeous little city, nowhere more beautiful to live. (Plus if you don't have a car you can save even more money because you don't need to join a gym: you get ripped out of your mind just walking up the hill every day to get home.)
The Hill: Black people. (so no idea: never went there--segregation. But August Wilson grew up there. Everyone in Pgh, even yinzers, is fiercely proud of August Wilson.)
Thing to do before going: Read the Michael Chabon Pgh books, especially The Mysteries of Pittsburgh. Then when you get there, find the hidden neighborhood.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:47 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]
I grew up in Cleveland, have spent two short (<=1 year) stints in CA (San Diego and rural northern CA), and now have lived in Pittsburgh for over 12 years. Compared to Pittsburgh, San Diego seemed huge and sprawling, and awash in money that seemed to make it luxurious if you were among the lucky, and brutal if you weren’t. Pittsburgh is comparatively very compact, having been built in the deep valleys surrounding the confluence of major rivers. Its narrow roads were more improvised than designed, and driving can feel like navigating along noodles in a bowl of tossed spaghetti. It’s a city that is still slowly picking itself up after a very hard economic fall a few decades ago. The population is growing again, but slowly, and it’s still well below peak. There’s not enough money to tear out or properly maintain much of the infrastructure, so it’s all very gritty, with lots of rust and crumbling concrete that becomes a bit oppressive in winter when the prolific but almost entirely deciduous trees lose their leaves and expose the hillsides in all their anti-glory. By the same token, though, springtime brings on a redemptive riot of greenery and flowers. I don’t find the gray days depressing; on the contrary, I find SoCal’s persistent sun to be exhausting. I wouldn’t mind having some of your low humidity, though.
I work for a very diverse and cosmopolitan university, so I lose sight of how segregated much of the city still is, but I can’t deny that many areas are uncomfortably white. That said, I think it’s changed dramatically since the time Don Pepino was here. I’ve never heard the sort of explicit racist talk that they described — not even once. Coastal professionals seem to have discovered the area as an comparatively affordable place to live, especially if able to WFH, and are busily driving housing costs through the roof. Neighborhoods that were extremely poor and dilapidated are rapidly gentrifying, but the salary you’re talking about will still enable you to live very well, almost wherever you want.
posted by jon1270 at 10:21 AM on May 27 [6 favorites]
I work for a very diverse and cosmopolitan university, so I lose sight of how segregated much of the city still is, but I can’t deny that many areas are uncomfortably white. That said, I think it’s changed dramatically since the time Don Pepino was here. I’ve never heard the sort of explicit racist talk that they described — not even once. Coastal professionals seem to have discovered the area as an comparatively affordable place to live, especially if able to WFH, and are busily driving housing costs through the roof. Neighborhoods that were extremely poor and dilapidated are rapidly gentrifying, but the salary you’re talking about will still enable you to live very well, almost wherever you want.
posted by jon1270 at 10:21 AM on May 27 [6 favorites]
I am a SoCal native and have spent plenty of time in Pittsburgh.
First, it's a lovely area lacking no big-metro amenities except an NBA team. 45 minute flight or very do-able 6 hour drive to NYC if you want the really big city from time to time.
Second, you will have major lifestyle pickup in several regards. Far less traffic, far cheaper housing, and a 3% state income tax rate. $200k a year gross for a single person (as I infer from your question) is, if not exactly rich, enough to let you have a very lovely and well-situated HOUSE (as in yard, garage and daylight between you and your neighbors) or a really awesome apartment, and savings every month. Live more modestly, LOTS of savings.
Third, thanks to UPMC and CMU and aforementioned cheaper housing and lower taxes, Pittsburgh is on the rise economically and attracting interesting people from all over the world.
Fourth, your first couple of winters will be a struggle. Cold and grey. If it's a hard winter, the snow may make you truly miserable. But you'll adjust. With that income DEFINITELY do as Pittsburghers do and plan on at least one vacation week somewhere warm and at least three long weekends in Florida.
posted by MattD at 10:35 AM on May 27 [3 favorites]
First, it's a lovely area lacking no big-metro amenities except an NBA team. 45 minute flight or very do-able 6 hour drive to NYC if you want the really big city from time to time.
Second, you will have major lifestyle pickup in several regards. Far less traffic, far cheaper housing, and a 3% state income tax rate. $200k a year gross for a single person (as I infer from your question) is, if not exactly rich, enough to let you have a very lovely and well-situated HOUSE (as in yard, garage and daylight between you and your neighbors) or a really awesome apartment, and savings every month. Live more modestly, LOTS of savings.
Third, thanks to UPMC and CMU and aforementioned cheaper housing and lower taxes, Pittsburgh is on the rise economically and attracting interesting people from all over the world.
Fourth, your first couple of winters will be a struggle. Cold and grey. If it's a hard winter, the snow may make you truly miserable. But you'll adjust. With that income DEFINITELY do as Pittsburghers do and plan on at least one vacation week somewhere warm and at least three long weekends in Florida.
posted by MattD at 10:35 AM on May 27 [3 favorites]
People say "well, the weather" and don't go into it. I'm in Boston (similar climate), but I've lived in SoCal and have friends from there (who like you are lifelong SoCal people) who come out to visit. One of them lived here and left after two years because she just couldn't take the weather, specifically the cold. If you've visited Tahoe or Big Bear it really doesn't give you context for what it's like to live in such a climate. For example: at the beginning of this month SoCal friends were visiting and wore KN-95s on their walk from the T to our house because they said their faces were freezing. I'd just been running errands without a jacket because it was too much trouble to put one on. It also rains a lot, so you need to check the weather and decide whether you need an umbrella or a raincoat (the advantage of a raincoat is that it won't blow away in the wind). Spring and fall are going to be MUCH colder than you are used to; they are like the coldest it gets in Southern California but for months. And winter is even more so. And then there's snow. Snow is pretty. It also makes driving difficult even after the snowfall is over. Piles of snow reduce visibility. And it can make walking a total nightmare. For that matter, if it melts and then freezes, that can make things terribly slippery. It's been a while since I've been to Pittsburgh, but you really don't want a place where there's 20 outdoor steps to get to the front door (a thing I remember well), because they WILL get icy and you WILL slip.
Now all of that having been said, I do have a friend who is not just a lifelong SoCal guy, but his family goes back 5 generations there. He moved East and he LOVES the changing seasons. Even the cold! So YMMV; you may actually fall in love with it. But I find the weather is more likely to break people than anything else.
posted by rednikki at 10:42 AM on May 27
Now all of that having been said, I do have a friend who is not just a lifelong SoCal guy, but his family goes back 5 generations there. He moved East and he LOVES the changing seasons. Even the cold! So YMMV; you may actually fall in love with it. But I find the weather is more likely to break people than anything else.
posted by rednikki at 10:42 AM on May 27
Two linguistic things to note: Pittsburgh has an h (not "Pittsburg") and "Pitt" is the nickname for the University of Pittsburgh, not the city.
I moved here pretty recently for work at one of the universities, albeit from the opposite end of the country (New England). For context, I've lived in other larger cities (Boston, Chicago) as well as Cleveland, but I have not lived in LA or more generally in SoCal.
Some things you might like:
- The cost of living is so very low for a city. Moving from Boston, my rent dropped like $400 dollars, for a place twice the size with a bunch of amenities my Boston apartment lacked. It would've dropped at least $1k/month if I'd stuck with a similarly small, crappy apartment. Things like homeownership, or a nicer place, or saving a lot of money, or dedicating money for travel: all are gonna be a lot easier here on that income.
- In the city proper, it is possible to find neighborhoods that are diverse - the universities/hospitals/tech companies play a role here, for sure. I was specifically looking for a diverse area. It's a little hard to find explicit stats, since I'm at the junction of three neighborhoods, but I'd guesstimate that they're locally similar to Edgewater (my old neighborhood in Chicago), but with fewer Hispanic residents. Given the reported demographics of East Liberty, Friendship, and Shadyside, that guesstimate actually might not be that far off. (Similarly, the city proper's LGBTQ-friendly in the ways you'd hope to find in any real city, and certainly isn't full of confederate flags and MAGA signage.) Note that this does not extend into the exurbs or even into all areas of the city proper: the lack of diversity regionally is real, and there definitely are any number of neighborhoods in the city that are more segregated than mine.
- I'm living car free and it's been pretty painless so far. The busses are surprisingly decent: I've been favorably impressed by how reliable they are. There are a lot more bike commuters than I'd feared. But I did choose my neighborhood with an eye towards number and frequency of bus lines, and many areas do have fewer lines or more infrequent busses.
- The general neighborhood feel is an interesting mix of Rust Belt, Mid-Atlantic, and North-East (if not quite New England.) The local topography favors distinctive vibes for different neighborhoods. It's really a bit of a regional crossroads (with some of its own distinctive linguistic quirks). The hills and rivers make a lot of the (city) neighborhoods compact and walkable.
- Both Cleveland and Columbus are pretty close (the cities are more or less equidistant with each other and Pittsburgh, ~ 2 h) and you can easily head there for events of interest; Philadelphia and DC are more of a hike.
- There are some really nice urban parks, trails along the rivers, etc. In general, like other Rust Belt cities, there are more civic amenities than you might expect from a city this size, due to the city's history - there isn't much that you'd expect in a city that's absent here.
Things that are just going to be different and that you may or may not like:
- Seasons. You do get the full range of seasons - it's too far south to get as much snow as some bits of the Great Lakes or East Coast, but you do get snow. I don't find it cloudier/rainier than other Great Lakes/New England cities I've lived in, and I personally really love living in areas with seasons and wilt under too much sun. Regardless, it will be quite different from SoCal. If you haven't lived further north/east before, you may find the resulting differences in plants & in architecture to be pretty noticeable.
- Hills. The city's reputation for being hilly is very well-deserved. There's a reason the bike shops here are very psyched about e-bikes, esp. for commuter/cargo use. Unlike some cities, it's hilly more or less throughout the city, not just at the edges. I'd be less than thrilled to handle some of the hills on a snowy or icy day, even as someone who's always lived in snowy climates.
- Between the hills, the rivers, and the age of the city, the layout is more like Boston (i.e. "grid??? what's a grid???") than cities to the west.
Things you may not like, depending on your priorities:
- Transit is meh, and almost all by bus except in a handful of specific places. (The airport bus is particularly unimpressive: neither as direct nor as frequent as it should be.) This also means you're guaranteed to be exposed to the weather while waiting in a way that you wouldn't in a city with a good subway system. There is an Amtrak station, but think Cleveland-level Amtrak (a handful of trains a day on a handful of lines) not East Coast Amtrak. There will be fewer flights to anywhere than you're used to, and sometimes no direct flights.
- Food is not bad, but it is limited compared to larger cities. Coming from almost any American city, the Mexican food specifically is going to be underwhelming; coming from SoCal, doubly so. There are specific cuisines that just don't have many (or any) decent restaurants - my kingdom for a decent Ethiopian place. (I feel like there have been so many Yelp reviews I've read full of locals saying "this is the first time I've ever had this kind of cuisine and it's amazing" and then one or two people saying - rather more accurately in my opinion - "I'm (German/Ethiopian/Vietnamese/whatever) and this is underwhelming at best.")
- Pittsburgh does not have a great music scene for most genres. It is too close to some combination of Cleveland/Columbus/Philadelphia and bands often stop in one or more of those other larger cities but not in Pittsburgh. (But... if you're willing to drive/take the bus, you can probably catch shows in one of those cities.)
- In general, compared to a larger city, there is a bit of everything but there may only be one example of that thing: there's breadth but not necessarily depth.
- The liquor laws are of baroque complexity, and that's true even having moved here from Massachusetts. Coming from California, you're probably going to find them baffling.
- I'm told that particularly for people commuting to/from various suburbs, the complex street layout means the bridges and tunnels in particular can create chokepoints that make the traffic more annoying than you might expect for a city this size.
- The lanternfly invasion last year was rather unpleasant if you don't like bugs and I'm low-key dreading it this year. (They're a quickly-spreading invasive species, though, so it's not like other Great Lakes or East Coast cities will be free from them forever.)
- While you can find diversity within the city, you can absolutely find more than a little inequality and segregation depressingly easily. I thankfully haven't run into "you're white so you must agree with me about this racist shit" but based on my experiences in culturally-similar Cleveland, I can't say I'd be totally shocked to encounter it, particularly coming from someone living in the suburbs or exurbs. And once you get outside the metro area, well, the "Pennsyltucky" moniker exists for a reason.
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 11:04 AM on May 27 [11 favorites]
I moved here pretty recently for work at one of the universities, albeit from the opposite end of the country (New England). For context, I've lived in other larger cities (Boston, Chicago) as well as Cleveland, but I have not lived in LA or more generally in SoCal.
Some things you might like:
- The cost of living is so very low for a city. Moving from Boston, my rent dropped like $400 dollars, for a place twice the size with a bunch of amenities my Boston apartment lacked. It would've dropped at least $1k/month if I'd stuck with a similarly small, crappy apartment. Things like homeownership, or a nicer place, or saving a lot of money, or dedicating money for travel: all are gonna be a lot easier here on that income.
- In the city proper, it is possible to find neighborhoods that are diverse - the universities/hospitals/tech companies play a role here, for sure. I was specifically looking for a diverse area. It's a little hard to find explicit stats, since I'm at the junction of three neighborhoods, but I'd guesstimate that they're locally similar to Edgewater (my old neighborhood in Chicago), but with fewer Hispanic residents. Given the reported demographics of East Liberty, Friendship, and Shadyside, that guesstimate actually might not be that far off. (Similarly, the city proper's LGBTQ-friendly in the ways you'd hope to find in any real city, and certainly isn't full of confederate flags and MAGA signage.) Note that this does not extend into the exurbs or even into all areas of the city proper: the lack of diversity regionally is real, and there definitely are any number of neighborhoods in the city that are more segregated than mine.
- I'm living car free and it's been pretty painless so far. The busses are surprisingly decent: I've been favorably impressed by how reliable they are. There are a lot more bike commuters than I'd feared. But I did choose my neighborhood with an eye towards number and frequency of bus lines, and many areas do have fewer lines or more infrequent busses.
- The general neighborhood feel is an interesting mix of Rust Belt, Mid-Atlantic, and North-East (if not quite New England.) The local topography favors distinctive vibes for different neighborhoods. It's really a bit of a regional crossroads (with some of its own distinctive linguistic quirks). The hills and rivers make a lot of the (city) neighborhoods compact and walkable.
- Both Cleveland and Columbus are pretty close (the cities are more or less equidistant with each other and Pittsburgh, ~ 2 h) and you can easily head there for events of interest; Philadelphia and DC are more of a hike.
- There are some really nice urban parks, trails along the rivers, etc. In general, like other Rust Belt cities, there are more civic amenities than you might expect from a city this size, due to the city's history - there isn't much that you'd expect in a city that's absent here.
Things that are just going to be different and that you may or may not like:
- Seasons. You do get the full range of seasons - it's too far south to get as much snow as some bits of the Great Lakes or East Coast, but you do get snow. I don't find it cloudier/rainier than other Great Lakes/New England cities I've lived in, and I personally really love living in areas with seasons and wilt under too much sun. Regardless, it will be quite different from SoCal. If you haven't lived further north/east before, you may find the resulting differences in plants & in architecture to be pretty noticeable.
- Hills. The city's reputation for being hilly is very well-deserved. There's a reason the bike shops here are very psyched about e-bikes, esp. for commuter/cargo use. Unlike some cities, it's hilly more or less throughout the city, not just at the edges. I'd be less than thrilled to handle some of the hills on a snowy or icy day, even as someone who's always lived in snowy climates.
- Between the hills, the rivers, and the age of the city, the layout is more like Boston (i.e. "grid??? what's a grid???") than cities to the west.
Things you may not like, depending on your priorities:
- Transit is meh, and almost all by bus except in a handful of specific places. (The airport bus is particularly unimpressive: neither as direct nor as frequent as it should be.) This also means you're guaranteed to be exposed to the weather while waiting in a way that you wouldn't in a city with a good subway system. There is an Amtrak station, but think Cleveland-level Amtrak (a handful of trains a day on a handful of lines) not East Coast Amtrak. There will be fewer flights to anywhere than you're used to, and sometimes no direct flights.
- Food is not bad, but it is limited compared to larger cities. Coming from almost any American city, the Mexican food specifically is going to be underwhelming; coming from SoCal, doubly so. There are specific cuisines that just don't have many (or any) decent restaurants - my kingdom for a decent Ethiopian place. (I feel like there have been so many Yelp reviews I've read full of locals saying "this is the first time I've ever had this kind of cuisine and it's amazing" and then one or two people saying - rather more accurately in my opinion - "I'm (German/Ethiopian/Vietnamese/whatever) and this is underwhelming at best.")
- Pittsburgh does not have a great music scene for most genres. It is too close to some combination of Cleveland/Columbus/Philadelphia and bands often stop in one or more of those other larger cities but not in Pittsburgh. (But... if you're willing to drive/take the bus, you can probably catch shows in one of those cities.)
- In general, compared to a larger city, there is a bit of everything but there may only be one example of that thing: there's breadth but not necessarily depth.
- The liquor laws are of baroque complexity, and that's true even having moved here from Massachusetts. Coming from California, you're probably going to find them baffling.
- I'm told that particularly for people commuting to/from various suburbs, the complex street layout means the bridges and tunnels in particular can create chokepoints that make the traffic more annoying than you might expect for a city this size.
- The lanternfly invasion last year was rather unpleasant if you don't like bugs and I'm low-key dreading it this year. (They're a quickly-spreading invasive species, though, so it's not like other Great Lakes or East Coast cities will be free from them forever.)
- While you can find diversity within the city, you can absolutely find more than a little inequality and segregation depressingly easily. I thankfully haven't run into "you're white so you must agree with me about this racist shit" but based on my experiences in culturally-similar Cleveland, I can't say I'd be totally shocked to encounter it, particularly coming from someone living in the suburbs or exurbs. And once you get outside the metro area, well, the "Pennsyltucky" moniker exists for a reason.
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 11:04 AM on May 27 [11 favorites]
having grown up in pittsburgh, and lived there 85-97, there are some things to remember:
-outside of the big cities in pennsylvania, it is kentucky. that's all there is to it.
-casual racism still exists in pittsburgh.
-the catholic communities can be very insular.
-summers are humid, winters are brutal.
on the plus side
-people help each other out
-very "we don't give a damn what you think of us, we'll make it through" underdog attitude.
-people genuinely want to make it better
-amazing health care.
Pittsburgh has been on the verge of a renaissance for decades now, so don't get fooled by that.
however I feel it is a very under-rated city.
posted by evilmonk at 12:09 PM on May 27
-outside of the big cities in pennsylvania, it is kentucky. that's all there is to it.
-casual racism still exists in pittsburgh.
-the catholic communities can be very insular.
-summers are humid, winters are brutal.
on the plus side
-people help each other out
-very "we don't give a damn what you think of us, we'll make it through" underdog attitude.
-people genuinely want to make it better
-amazing health care.
Pittsburgh has been on the verge of a renaissance for decades now, so don't get fooled by that.
however I feel it is a very under-rated city.
posted by evilmonk at 12:09 PM on May 27
Weather. Winter is cold and long. Driving in a hilly city on icy roads is terrifying. We love Pittsburgh and talked about moving there, but hesitated many times, one of the reasons was the weather (and we're from the NYC area, which is closer weather-wise than SoCal).
But Pittsburgh is beautiful and changing seasons are really nice.
Can you visit before making a decision?
posted by dabadoo at 1:03 PM on May 27
But Pittsburgh is beautiful and changing seasons are really nice.
Can you visit before making a decision?
posted by dabadoo at 1:03 PM on May 27
Mod note: One removed. OP is asking about the comparative practical experience of moving to Pittsburgh from SoCal, not really a history lesson.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:20 AM on May 28 [3 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 3:20 AM on May 28 [3 favorites]
Lots has already been said, but I'll add one thing: winters have been pretty variable recently. The last two have been particularly mild, probably thanks to climate change, but overall I'd say the takeaway there is that winter even 10 years ago (or 15, when I moved here) isn't the same as winter now. Still cold, probably a few weeks in really cold temps (<20° lows) and especially brutal winds, but it might just be cold and rainy a lot more now instead of snowy.
posted by miratime at 6:53 AM on May 28
posted by miratime at 6:53 AM on May 28
There are a lot of good answers already, but I'd like to underscore the point about overcast weather. I'd highly recommend supplementing with vitamin D and just keeping an eye on your levels.
Additionally, I would recommend a AWD vehicle if you plan to get around by car. The combination of hills and snow can be a bit challenging. I do think the city and surrounding communities do a good job of salting and plowing, but every once in a while you may find yourself on an un-groomed road, and there's nothing more alarming than losing traction on a hill.
I think another side effect of the seasonality is that once the weather warms up there's a lot of outdoor activities through the summer. (Or maybe I just notice this more because I'm tired of being cooped up in the house.) Things like farmers markets, public pools, random fests (Picklesburgh!), outdoor movie nights, first Fridays, etc. Plus there's some nice rail-to-trail systems if you are looking to bike, walk, or run outdoors on fairly flat ground. In the fall there's a couple farms just outside the city that you can visit for apple picking, pumpkin patches, and hay rides.
If you like baseball at all, PNC Park is is a fine place to catch a game, and the tickets are reasonable!
One of the things that surprised me the most after I moved here is how chill the drivers are. There's a lot of absolutely insane merging you have to do around the tunnels and bridges. And people just... let you in. Oh and there's this unwritten "Pittsburgh left" where if you are stopped waiting to turn left at a light with no left-turn arrow, when it turns green the on-coming person will yield to you out of the goodness of their heart. It's random, but when it happens it is so nice.
There's a couple hyper-local phrases like "yinz" (equivalent to y'all) and "n'at" (and that). Which means you will see some funny business names like "Wax N'at".
And if you are on the hunt for a house, you may run across the "Pittsburgh potty"!
posted by LoraT at 9:49 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
Additionally, I would recommend a AWD vehicle if you plan to get around by car. The combination of hills and snow can be a bit challenging. I do think the city and surrounding communities do a good job of salting and plowing, but every once in a while you may find yourself on an un-groomed road, and there's nothing more alarming than losing traction on a hill.
I think another side effect of the seasonality is that once the weather warms up there's a lot of outdoor activities through the summer. (Or maybe I just notice this more because I'm tired of being cooped up in the house.) Things like farmers markets, public pools, random fests (Picklesburgh!), outdoor movie nights, first Fridays, etc. Plus there's some nice rail-to-trail systems if you are looking to bike, walk, or run outdoors on fairly flat ground. In the fall there's a couple farms just outside the city that you can visit for apple picking, pumpkin patches, and hay rides.
If you like baseball at all, PNC Park is is a fine place to catch a game, and the tickets are reasonable!
One of the things that surprised me the most after I moved here is how chill the drivers are. There's a lot of absolutely insane merging you have to do around the tunnels and bridges. And people just... let you in. Oh and there's this unwritten "Pittsburgh left" where if you are stopped waiting to turn left at a light with no left-turn arrow, when it turns green the on-coming person will yield to you out of the goodness of their heart. It's random, but when it happens it is so nice.
There's a couple hyper-local phrases like "yinz" (equivalent to y'all) and "n'at" (and that). Which means you will see some funny business names like "Wax N'at".
And if you are on the hunt for a house, you may run across the "Pittsburgh potty"!
posted by LoraT at 9:49 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
I have lived in the east (though not PA) and west. To add something I haven't seen mentioned ... my observation is that east coast people are more stressed. Its a stereotype I suppose (east:uptight, west: relaxed) but I did observe that.
posted by falsedmitri at 2:37 PM on May 28
posted by falsedmitri at 2:37 PM on May 28
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Public transportation is meh, but usable. I recommend a car unless you are living and working downtown.
Weather wise it can be grey. A SAD Light lamp may be necessary. And buy layers, even in winter the weather is quite changeable.
Sports are great. The concerts scheduled for this summer are especially good. The best thing you can do for yourself is to go forth and explore. If something strikes you as remotely interesting, do it. I’ve lived here 20 years and I’m still learning new things about this city. Last year I learned that the city hires goats to help control the foliage when I stumbled across some of the infamous “steps as streets” complete with goats munching away.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 3:59 AM on May 27 [2 favorites]