I think I'm in the middle of a con
May 21, 2024 7:37 AM Subscribe
I saw the potential setup for a con, but I couldn't see the point; the money wasn't worth it. Now I spotted the money coming. I think I am hooked but they haven't hit me for the payout yet. Help me get out without further injury?
I was approached by a neighbor who said he was looking to increase his own business while working full time. I have work that needs doing. He sent me an estimate, I bought supplies, he did two days of pretty good, if slow, work; he underestimated how much time it would take.
My partner & I discussed that this is often the form of a con, but it's also a legitimate way to start a small business, and we couldn't see where the money is in the con. The numbers are too small, and we were buying the supplies ourselves.
Yesterday I overheard him, several times, talking to my partner in a very different tone than he uses with me. Asking if we know a goat vet, his goat is limping. Asking about vehicles, he's needing to buy one soon. Talking about a family member he had to send money to. (Yes, my partner comes across as both softer-hearted, and the one in charge of the money.)
I think I have found the money. We're in a compromised position (work half done, our money invested in supplies). I think he's setting us up to ask for a "loan," and then to run. And obviously if he can't get the "loan" he "can't" continue to spare time for us, oh, I can see the money now.
I have checked a couple of details he's mentioned offhand about himself, and been unable to verify them as true or false, though they should be pretty easy if true.
The work he's done is very good. The next stage involves putting our animals at risk by taking something down briefly to fix it. If he is a con man, that's obviously the time to hit us up for money. If he's not, I don't want to hurt a guy who's doing some good work. I fear if I call him on it, he'll leave things that will endanger our animals that I can't get fixed quickly. And frankly, I don't want to upset a con man. Note: where I am, if I involve authorities it *will* substantially hurt him even if he is 100% above-board.
He's supposed to come for a few hours a few evenings this week. I intend to get his photo and pics of his vehicle and license plate as soon as he's here. I don't know what to do with it.
How do I get through this safely? How do I protect my animals, and not hurt a man who hasn't hurt me... but is that "hasn't hurt me yet"?
I was approached by a neighbor who said he was looking to increase his own business while working full time. I have work that needs doing. He sent me an estimate, I bought supplies, he did two days of pretty good, if slow, work; he underestimated how much time it would take.
My partner & I discussed that this is often the form of a con, but it's also a legitimate way to start a small business, and we couldn't see where the money is in the con. The numbers are too small, and we were buying the supplies ourselves.
Yesterday I overheard him, several times, talking to my partner in a very different tone than he uses with me. Asking if we know a goat vet, his goat is limping. Asking about vehicles, he's needing to buy one soon. Talking about a family member he had to send money to. (Yes, my partner comes across as both softer-hearted, and the one in charge of the money.)
I think I have found the money. We're in a compromised position (work half done, our money invested in supplies). I think he's setting us up to ask for a "loan," and then to run. And obviously if he can't get the "loan" he "can't" continue to spare time for us, oh, I can see the money now.
I have checked a couple of details he's mentioned offhand about himself, and been unable to verify them as true or false, though they should be pretty easy if true.
The work he's done is very good. The next stage involves putting our animals at risk by taking something down briefly to fix it. If he is a con man, that's obviously the time to hit us up for money. If he's not, I don't want to hurt a guy who's doing some good work. I fear if I call him on it, he'll leave things that will endanger our animals that I can't get fixed quickly. And frankly, I don't want to upset a con man. Note: where I am, if I involve authorities it *will* substantially hurt him even if he is 100% above-board.
He's supposed to come for a few hours a few evenings this week. I intend to get his photo and pics of his vehicle and license plate as soon as he's here. I don't know what to do with it.
How do I get through this safely? How do I protect my animals, and not hurt a man who hasn't hurt me... but is that "hasn't hurt me yet"?
Can you get comfort that the animals will be safe through this process?
For example, can you talk to him to get assurances that he is prepared to complete the process without undue risk to the animals before he starts that process? Can you identify a backup provider that can step in and finish the process if the first guy is unable/unwilling/not capable? Do you have an "emergency plan" for your animals in the ordinary course that you could implement if they are put at risk during this process?
posted by bruinfan at 7:52 AM on May 21 [2 favorites]
For example, can you talk to him to get assurances that he is prepared to complete the process without undue risk to the animals before he starts that process? Can you identify a backup provider that can step in and finish the process if the first guy is unable/unwilling/not capable? Do you have an "emergency plan" for your animals in the ordinary course that you could implement if they are put at risk during this process?
posted by bruinfan at 7:52 AM on May 21 [2 favorites]
If you're worried about the time it's taking/jobsite conditions: maybe help with the work?
posted by HearHere at 8:26 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
posted by HearHere at 8:26 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
Who has control of the supplies you bought? Are they on site, or does he have them? and when you say "run" it implies he's not a well established neighbor who might have to sell his property in order to skip out on you.
If you've got the supplies , you can always hire someone else to finish the job if he flakes out on you. If he's not in a position to actually go anywhere, you've got leverage over his future by being able to give him bad reviews or warn people off of his scheme.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:28 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
If you've got the supplies , you can always hire someone else to finish the job if he flakes out on you. If he's not in a position to actually go anywhere, you've got leverage over his future by being able to give him bad reviews or warn people off of his scheme.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:28 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
So far, at least, the evidence you've laid out is entirely ambiguous, even imo the griping this guy has done to your partner about financial hardship. He could just like to complain, and your partner seemed more receptive, for the same reasons they might seem like an easy mark for a scammer. The last time we hired plumbers, the owner of the shop spent something like 30 minutes griping to me about how a previous employee had committed some sort of fraud with the business's credit card (or credit card processor?) and had cost them a specific type of license which was not relevant for the work I was having them do. It absolutely raised my hackles, but they nonetheless completed the work on time and at a reasonable (and transparent) cost. I'd hire them again. People in the trades can be weird and can seem unconcerned about social graces if you're not used to it.
If I were in your position, I'd proceed, but with some caution. Like other commenters have suggested, secure the materials you've bought, and keep them on site if you can. Make arrangements for some sort of backup or mitigation for the risk to your animals, even if it's just for long enough to bring someone else in for an emergency repair if you need to fire this guy. And, of course, be prepared to fire him and remove him from your property if he starts to get pushy about a loan or advance. If it puts your mind at ease, you could even call around and get some quotes for fixing up what you're imagining might need to be done if he does stall at the critical phase of the work, and then let it drop if current guy follows through and finishes.
posted by pullayup at 8:44 AM on May 21 [8 favorites]
If I were in your position, I'd proceed, but with some caution. Like other commenters have suggested, secure the materials you've bought, and keep them on site if you can. Make arrangements for some sort of backup or mitigation for the risk to your animals, even if it's just for long enough to bring someone else in for an emergency repair if you need to fire this guy. And, of course, be prepared to fire him and remove him from your property if he starts to get pushy about a loan or advance. If it puts your mind at ease, you could even call around and get some quotes for fixing up what you're imagining might need to be done if he does stall at the critical phase of the work, and then let it drop if current guy follows through and finishes.
posted by pullayup at 8:44 AM on May 21 [8 favorites]
Look, if something smells fishy, don't ignore your intuition and perceptions just because you can't fully substantiate them, yet. Because later, if/when he screws you, is when you'll be able to substantiate them for sure!
This is what I would do. Spin his game back on him. YOU proactively say 'hey neighbor, I know how much this job means to you, and you've done a really great job. Thank you so much. Unfortunately, we have some financial problems right now. I think we'll have the money in a couple of months, so let's wait until then." and then see how fast his tune changes, if it changes, what it changes to...your observations will tell you a lot. Is he angry? Is he patience and empathetic with your situation?
OR "we have financial problems so have to pay using a credit card." make sure you have a contract with scope of work, and that way if he bails, you can take it up with the credit card company.
Good luck, pls update us!
posted by cacao at 9:06 AM on May 21 [10 favorites]
This is what I would do. Spin his game back on him. YOU proactively say 'hey neighbor, I know how much this job means to you, and you've done a really great job. Thank you so much. Unfortunately, we have some financial problems right now. I think we'll have the money in a couple of months, so let's wait until then." and then see how fast his tune changes, if it changes, what it changes to...your observations will tell you a lot. Is he angry? Is he patience and empathetic with your situation?
OR "we have financial problems so have to pay using a credit card." make sure you have a contract with scope of work, and that way if he bails, you can take it up with the credit card company.
Good luck, pls update us!
posted by cacao at 9:06 AM on May 21 [10 favorites]
There is a real and serious reason why some people are "handymen", and others that do the same sort of work are bonded and licensed contractors. Most of the time it's because of substance abuse issues, but other times it's because some people lack executive function to such a degree they make themselves unhireable. You guy seems like the latter.
That said, on my 1-10 scale of hard to deal with handymen, with 1 being "actually does the job on time and on budget" and 10 being "constantly brandishes firearms to everyone that passes by on the street", this dude is like a 2. Trust me, it gets a lot worse.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:13 AM on May 21 [23 favorites]
That said, on my 1-10 scale of hard to deal with handymen, with 1 being "actually does the job on time and on budget" and 10 being "constantly brandishes firearms to everyone that passes by on the street", this dude is like a 2. Trust me, it gets a lot worse.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:13 AM on May 21 [23 favorites]
substance abuse issues
Are also rampant in the trades, for what it's worth. This was the underlying motivation for the fraud I mentioned in my initial response.
Another thought: if you're really concerned about this guy trying to roll you or your partner, invite a few people over to hang out while he's on your property doing the critical work, and tell them what's going on in advance. Maybe have a cookout and offer him some food (which is good etiquette when you have folks working on your property anyway). No alcohol, though. Stay in a group: if he wants to talk to you or your partner, you're hanging out together, and you'll have some friends within earshot too. You'll have a lot of sympathetic folks around as witnesses and if you need to ask him to leave the request will have the implied weight of your friends' presence on your side.
posted by pullayup at 9:24 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
Are also rampant in the trades, for what it's worth. This was the underlying motivation for the fraud I mentioned in my initial response.
Another thought: if you're really concerned about this guy trying to roll you or your partner, invite a few people over to hang out while he's on your property doing the critical work, and tell them what's going on in advance. Maybe have a cookout and offer him some food (which is good etiquette when you have folks working on your property anyway). No alcohol, though. Stay in a group: if he wants to talk to you or your partner, you're hanging out together, and you'll have some friends within earshot too. You'll have a lot of sympathetic folks around as witnesses and if you need to ask him to leave the request will have the implied weight of your friends' presence on your side.
posted by pullayup at 9:24 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
From what you've posted...there's no way to tell. Honestly, this reads like you are the one who might be the issue. And, that's also okay. It really is. It's okay to not be okay with this guy. But you also need to be clear with your boundaries and discuss with your partner about this. If you feel really uneasy with going forward with the next part, you have options! Discuss your unease (messing up the animals' space, delays, etc.) with the person doing the work and prepare additional options for if something terrible happens. He might get sick? His mom might need him many miles away? He might decide that being a handyman was a terrible idea and ghost. You always need to kind of think three steps ahead for your own situation about the risks you are willing to take and ways to mitigate them. You can also say, "You know...I'm not prepared to deal with completely altering this yet, other things have come up and we don't really have the money, let's table this for the future!" Then give him a six pack of beer as neighborly thanks, or a plate of cookies, or a gift card to your local hardware store. Then do whatever you need to do. Maybe in six months or a year you want to try him again or maybe you get some more quotes from other people and listen to your gut.
posted by amanda at 9:33 AM on May 21 [5 favorites]
posted by amanda at 9:33 AM on May 21 [5 favorites]
he did two days of pretty good, if slow, work; he underestimated how much time it would take.
I do work where I often have to estimate a job before doing it. If you haven't done this before you might not understand how hard it is.
This guy is inexperienced and just starting, and it sounds like he gave you an estimate that's too low, and it's obvious to both of you now that he's into the work. This sucks for everyone, but especially him. He's scared to talk to you about it. He's less scared of your partner but he's still dancing around the problem.
If I hire a huge company to fix something, and they send someone who breaks a thing due to negligence, I would expect them to do the extra work to fix it for free. They are experienced enough to wrap into each job enough extra income to pay for the occasional screwup. And if they're not, they can take a loss once in a while.
But your neighbor isn't a big company, and he's not good at the hardest part of a business like this. No surprise. He's not negligent, he's inexperienced. It is wrong to expect him to work part of the job for free because he's bad at estimating. Him not wanting to work for free does not make him a con artist.
Remember, this is your neighbor and you're helping him start an enterprise of some kind, doing a kind of work that apparently you sometimes need and you can't do for yourself. He is showing up and working diligently and you say the work is very good. Having a good relationship with him is going to be really good for you both.
Talk to him. Have a cup of coffee with him and ask if he needs to revise his estimate, and work it out before you both get in any deeper. Don't set this up to be a showdown of some kind.
posted by fritley at 9:40 AM on May 21 [77 favorites]
I do work where I often have to estimate a job before doing it. If you haven't done this before you might not understand how hard it is.
This guy is inexperienced and just starting, and it sounds like he gave you an estimate that's too low, and it's obvious to both of you now that he's into the work. This sucks for everyone, but especially him. He's scared to talk to you about it. He's less scared of your partner but he's still dancing around the problem.
If I hire a huge company to fix something, and they send someone who breaks a thing due to negligence, I would expect them to do the extra work to fix it for free. They are experienced enough to wrap into each job enough extra income to pay for the occasional screwup. And if they're not, they can take a loss once in a while.
But your neighbor isn't a big company, and he's not good at the hardest part of a business like this. No surprise. He's not negligent, he's inexperienced. It is wrong to expect him to work part of the job for free because he's bad at estimating. Him not wanting to work for free does not make him a con artist.
Remember, this is your neighbor and you're helping him start an enterprise of some kind, doing a kind of work that apparently you sometimes need and you can't do for yourself. He is showing up and working diligently and you say the work is very good. Having a good relationship with him is going to be really good for you both.
Talk to him. Have a cup of coffee with him and ask if he needs to revise his estimate, and work it out before you both get in any deeper. Don't set this up to be a showdown of some kind.
posted by fritley at 9:40 AM on May 21 [77 favorites]
If you have a casual arrangement with a handyman type that you don't know that well, you should absolutely be ready for him to disappear or not show up for some time at any point. That's just the reality of this kind of arrangement.
Can you work out a worst case scenario strategy to handle him up and leaving while the work is half done? If you have a plan to handle that eventuality, then it sounds like you are immune to the theorized con here (he takes down your fence or whatever it is and then refuses to continue working without some kind of advance) and you can proceed without having to worry too much. Just stand your ground if he asks for a loan.
If you absolutely can't handle that kind of situation, then it sounds like this kind of arrangement with this particular individual isn't a good one for you and you should seek someone more professional (and probably more expensive).
posted by ssg at 9:41 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]
Can you work out a worst case scenario strategy to handle him up and leaving while the work is half done? If you have a plan to handle that eventuality, then it sounds like you are immune to the theorized con here (he takes down your fence or whatever it is and then refuses to continue working without some kind of advance) and you can proceed without having to worry too much. Just stand your ground if he asks for a loan.
If you absolutely can't handle that kind of situation, then it sounds like this kind of arrangement with this particular individual isn't a good one for you and you should seek someone more professional (and probably more expensive).
posted by ssg at 9:41 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]
Risk assessment is part of fraud planning. If there's a con underway, the length of time you, your partner, and Neighbor have been acquainted and sharing a community is a factor. Neighbor unraveling his life (offloading his own house, relocating himself and his family, re-homing animals, severing social and professional ties [you mention a full-time day job]) to evade consequences of a failed scheme is a significant personal risk. But since you're considering photographing his vehicle during the week, maybe he isn't a near-ish neighbor.
You're uncomfortable, and that's enough. How does your partner view the conversation they had with Neighbor? (Are they aware you overheard?) How do they feel about the remodeling situation? Could the work be halted as it is right now? Can the plan change to reach a safe, livable wrap-up this week? Were the supplies a custom order, or can they be returned?
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:02 AM on May 21
You're uncomfortable, and that's enough. How does your partner view the conversation they had with Neighbor? (Are they aware you overheard?) How do they feel about the remodeling situation? Could the work be halted as it is right now? Can the plan change to reach a safe, livable wrap-up this week? Were the supplies a custom order, or can they be returned?
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:02 AM on May 21
If you choose to proceed, would it be possible to hire someone to work alongside him during the dangerous next part, to make sure whatever is being repaired that puts the animals in danger is less of a threat? Is there a way to make that part more efficient and safe while also involving more people so there's more oversight? As others have mentioned, it sounds like you need a backup plan and to get estimates from others for this work, in case you need someone to step in urgently.
I don't know where you're based, but it sounds a bit more rural at very least. I think some of the answers you've gotten so far might be relevant to a bit different type of location. In the suburbs or the city, where there are more choices of people to service things, and more business is driven through websites and listings services, the threat of a bad review might hold more weight than in, say, rural Mexico. Likewise, the OP's recourse if things go bad sounds like it might be very different.
Otherwise, it's hard to say whether this is a situation like fritley is imagining above, where your neighbor is proceeding in good faith but just underestimated due to his inexperience, or a situation like you're imagining, where you're being set up to be asked for money down the line. I like cacao's idea, asking to pause or pay by credit card and seeing how he responds. (Though if you are in that rural of a place, paying by card might be a nonstarter.) You probably should pause anyway to assess your options and next steps.
posted by limeonaire at 10:46 AM on May 21
I don't know where you're based, but it sounds a bit more rural at very least. I think some of the answers you've gotten so far might be relevant to a bit different type of location. In the suburbs or the city, where there are more choices of people to service things, and more business is driven through websites and listings services, the threat of a bad review might hold more weight than in, say, rural Mexico. Likewise, the OP's recourse if things go bad sounds like it might be very different.
Otherwise, it's hard to say whether this is a situation like fritley is imagining above, where your neighbor is proceeding in good faith but just underestimated due to his inexperience, or a situation like you're imagining, where you're being set up to be asked for money down the line. I like cacao's idea, asking to pause or pay by credit card and seeing how he responds. (Though if you are in that rural of a place, paying by card might be a nonstarter.) You probably should pause anyway to assess your options and next steps.
posted by limeonaire at 10:46 AM on May 21
he underestimated how much time it would take
Just what to confirm with a few examples what you already mentioned: yes, this is incredibly common. A good friend of mine hired a former housemate who was in process of getting his contractors license to do some work, and the same thing happened. He just didn't realize how long the specific project would take. My friend, who trusted his housemate, commented to me that that's part of why he was getting a decent rate: this guy was still learning how to be a professional in this busy rather than someone who works on his own home.
Asking if we know a goat vet, his goat is limping. Asking about vehicles, he's needing to buy one soon. Talking about a family member he had to send money to.
In case a different framing is helpful: it sounds like this person is experiencing some real financial distress, which is motivating him to look for this other work. It's not surprising that his money situation is on his mind and he's sharing that.
Also, taking a big step back: if you were actually going to con people, you would probably not choose your neighbor, who knows your name and where you live, and something that's taking more than a full weekend to implement. And someone who owns a goat is probably not someone who is going to disappear overnight.
And taking an even bigger step back: are you someone who sometimes suffers from fear and anxiety, and about situations where your fears don't play out? If so, I am thinking that perhaps your concern about your animals might be pushing on your anxiety buttons and make you worried about something bigger in this situation.
Also, what does your partner think? That all seems really important.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:19 AM on May 21 [30 favorites]
Just what to confirm with a few examples what you already mentioned: yes, this is incredibly common. A good friend of mine hired a former housemate who was in process of getting his contractors license to do some work, and the same thing happened. He just didn't realize how long the specific project would take. My friend, who trusted his housemate, commented to me that that's part of why he was getting a decent rate: this guy was still learning how to be a professional in this busy rather than someone who works on his own home.
Asking if we know a goat vet, his goat is limping. Asking about vehicles, he's needing to buy one soon. Talking about a family member he had to send money to.
In case a different framing is helpful: it sounds like this person is experiencing some real financial distress, which is motivating him to look for this other work. It's not surprising that his money situation is on his mind and he's sharing that.
Also, taking a big step back: if you were actually going to con people, you would probably not choose your neighbor, who knows your name and where you live, and something that's taking more than a full weekend to implement. And someone who owns a goat is probably not someone who is going to disappear overnight.
And taking an even bigger step back: are you someone who sometimes suffers from fear and anxiety, and about situations where your fears don't play out? If so, I am thinking that perhaps your concern about your animals might be pushing on your anxiety buttons and make you worried about something bigger in this situation.
Also, what does your partner think? That all seems really important.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:19 AM on May 21 [30 favorites]
Con? Not from the description I heard. From handymen to the highest end consulting firm You pay more... a lot more because "you don't get fired for buying IBM." You pay more for a contractor and you'll complain the did a quick job but also had the resources to swap people out and spend a lot of time selling to you. It is a complex relationship I can give you the same solution, spend 6 weeks analyzing the problem (you won't want to pay me that because you think you've told me the problem), have an incredibly detailed contract and then change request you to do death or what he's calling a loan, you did he underestimated the work.
No you won't have a fancy conference I put on in Florida twice a year with b-list celebrity speaker promising my product is AI/metaverse/VR ready and it won't demo really well with features you don't need. I also won't give you 3 months of free demos or charge you for an account manager, product manager, architect, engagement lead, etc. who spend most their time essentially creating PowerPoints proving they're doing work.
I'll use terms like scope change and not loan, talk about how it took longer to enable the ChatGPT you vaguely requested and demanded to be in the contract but have no idea what you'll actually use it for (but the project has a 30% GenAI budget so you gotta spend the money).
It is no different than a handyman. In many ways I'm worse because I wouldn't say I need a loan for my goat but you're a mid-size regional restaurant and I'll say I got off an emergency call with McDonald's "former client" and then non-nonchalantly pass on a project they're working on that will peak you interest and be something you don't need and you'll feel like you hired a handyman who just gave you some ideas of where the industry is headed.
You are paying him less the work is good, albeit slow, and you're dealing with the same problems only without the corporate spin on it. Taking his photo and his car and getting him involved with the police as being retaliatory? If there's a breach of contract (if there was a contract) deal with it in a ethical manner.
Frankly he comes off as uncouth who underbids and overestimates his abilities and you also made the choice to go with the lower cost option.
Loans like that may come as lower class (goat, car, etc.) but I guarantee you I've done the same thing in a more subtle manner. Sometimes it can be simply not enforcing the contract with scope creep. Othertimes it is moving payment from NET120 to NET90 with a penalty of some kind so I can hit my Q2 numbers. Sure it is in the contract and nothing is illegal: but you get what you pay for. The cheaper the bid the more likely the problems you face come up.
posted by geoff. at 11:19 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]
No you won't have a fancy conference I put on in Florida twice a year with b-list celebrity speaker promising my product is AI/metaverse/VR ready and it won't demo really well with features you don't need. I also won't give you 3 months of free demos or charge you for an account manager, product manager, architect, engagement lead, etc. who spend most their time essentially creating PowerPoints proving they're doing work.
I'll use terms like scope change and not loan, talk about how it took longer to enable the ChatGPT you vaguely requested and demanded to be in the contract but have no idea what you'll actually use it for (but the project has a 30% GenAI budget so you gotta spend the money).
It is no different than a handyman. In many ways I'm worse because I wouldn't say I need a loan for my goat but you're a mid-size regional restaurant and I'll say I got off an emergency call with McDonald's "former client" and then non-nonchalantly pass on a project they're working on that will peak you interest and be something you don't need and you'll feel like you hired a handyman who just gave you some ideas of where the industry is headed.
You are paying him less the work is good, albeit slow, and you're dealing with the same problems only without the corporate spin on it. Taking his photo and his car and getting him involved with the police as being retaliatory? If there's a breach of contract (if there was a contract) deal with it in a ethical manner.
Frankly he comes off as uncouth who underbids and overestimates his abilities and you also made the choice to go with the lower cost option.
Loans like that may come as lower class (goat, car, etc.) but I guarantee you I've done the same thing in a more subtle manner. Sometimes it can be simply not enforcing the contract with scope creep. Othertimes it is moving payment from NET120 to NET90 with a penalty of some kind so I can hit my Q2 numbers. Sure it is in the contract and nothing is illegal: but you get what you pay for. The cheaper the bid the more likely the problems you face come up.
posted by geoff. at 11:19 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]
I think he's setting us up to ask for a "loan," and then to run.
But he's your neighbor - where exactly would he "run"? Based on what you've written, it just sounds like someone making the kind of mistakes people typically make with a new business - underestimating how long quality work will take. It doesn't seem like a con to me.
posted by coffeecat at 11:31 AM on May 21 [11 favorites]
But he's your neighbor - where exactly would he "run"? Based on what you've written, it just sounds like someone making the kind of mistakes people typically make with a new business - underestimating how long quality work will take. It doesn't seem like a con to me.
posted by coffeecat at 11:31 AM on May 21 [11 favorites]
I think you may be better to be more specific and less general in your worries here. You are worried "he may be trying to scam you" - that is emotionally intense and hard to judge/disprove, very vague. How about being worried that "he may not complete the promised work in the time frame he promised"? That seems really reasonable, and there might be ways to mitigate it. Or that "he may want more money than originally agreed," either for reasonable reasons, like having misjudged it in the first place, or for bad reasons like having intentionally low-balled you to get the work and now raising his rates. Or that "we might get sucked into his personal problems" (goat... helping him get a business off the ground... general sense he's unreliable...). There is more you can do with specific worries than with vague intention-based ones.
posted by Lady Li at 11:39 AM on May 21 [5 favorites]
posted by Lady Li at 11:39 AM on May 21 [5 favorites]
It’s always good to trust your instincts, but it sounds like you’re got getting a good reading here.
I would go with having a backup plan already detailed and ready to go. If he stops in the middle of something, you already have a backup contractor on speed dial. You can even have somebody out for an estimate — you don’t have to rub it in his face, but if he sees it just say that you were trying to check out what market price was.
It may also be possible to buy the supplies he needs directly (because you want the frequent flyer miles on your credit card), which means he can’t just run off with the money. You can pay for half the labor upfront, but at that point you’re most likely down at the “not worth the scam“ level.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:27 PM on May 21
I would go with having a backup plan already detailed and ready to go. If he stops in the middle of something, you already have a backup contractor on speed dial. You can even have somebody out for an estimate — you don’t have to rub it in his face, but if he sees it just say that you were trying to check out what market price was.
It may also be possible to buy the supplies he needs directly (because you want the frequent flyer miles on your credit card), which means he can’t just run off with the money. You can pay for half the labor upfront, but at that point you’re most likely down at the “not worth the scam“ level.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:27 PM on May 21
Nothing about this sounds like a con, you are imagining many aspects of it. He has not asked you for money, threatened you or your animals, or threatened to leave the work unfinished.
When you hire semi-professionals, they might not meet the same deadlines or expectations you have of professionals.
posted by so fucking future at 1:39 PM on May 21 [8 favorites]
When you hire semi-professionals, they might not meet the same deadlines or expectations you have of professionals.
posted by so fucking future at 1:39 PM on May 21 [8 favorites]
I think your high level of suspicion is not warranted by the evidence you present. I mean if you're going to scam someone why would you scam someone who knows where you live?? It seems like he's not great at scams if that's what he's attempting.
posted by potrzebie at 1:56 PM on May 21 [4 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 1:56 PM on May 21 [4 favorites]
I am in a second year of a new business and boy howdy am I prone to underestimating how long things will take.
posted by clew at 3:17 PM on May 21 [4 favorites]
posted by clew at 3:17 PM on May 21 [4 favorites]
Your contractor might get sick or have a family emergency or dayjob emergency or whatever and have to interrupt the work during the critical phase when the animals are at risk. Setting aside any thoughts of scams, it's just prudent to know how you're going to deal with that.
So, make a Plan B assuming that the job fails at the worst moment. If you're ready to deal with that situation then it doesn't matter whether the dude tries to jam you up or ghosts you; you just activate Plan B, drop the guy from your Rolodex, and move on.
And if the work succeeds smoothly that's a great outcome! You get needed work done, you've got a new vendor who might help you out in the future, and the dude gets an income stream it sounds like he needs pretty badly.
If you can't make a Plan B and you're really anxious about this, I would consider deferring the work because you're staking the health of your animals on someone who raises questions for you.
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:39 PM on May 21 [2 favorites]
So, make a Plan B assuming that the job fails at the worst moment. If you're ready to deal with that situation then it doesn't matter whether the dude tries to jam you up or ghosts you; you just activate Plan B, drop the guy from your Rolodex, and move on.
And if the work succeeds smoothly that's a great outcome! You get needed work done, you've got a new vendor who might help you out in the future, and the dude gets an income stream it sounds like he needs pretty badly.
If you can't make a Plan B and you're really anxious about this, I would consider deferring the work because you're staking the health of your animals on someone who raises questions for you.
posted by Sauce Trough at 3:39 PM on May 21 [2 favorites]
You need to take on some project management and build in some incentives.
Sit down with him and write out about 3-5 specific stages for the work (remove this thing, install this thing, paint this thing, etc). Ask him to estimate the completion date for each stage. If the conversation is going well, ask about what factors might speed or delay each stage.
Now this next step is key. Review the timeline, and offer a bonus (5-10%) for finishing on a specific date. If the animal-related steps are the most important, tie half the bonus to that. Use good judgement to make the time attainable with energetic focus.
If you haven't already, write out the scope of the work, the quality standards, and specify exactly when and how he will be paid. This will serve both parties well.
posted by dum spiro spero at 4:08 PM on May 21 [2 favorites]
Sit down with him and write out about 3-5 specific stages for the work (remove this thing, install this thing, paint this thing, etc). Ask him to estimate the completion date for each stage. If the conversation is going well, ask about what factors might speed or delay each stage.
Now this next step is key. Review the timeline, and offer a bonus (5-10%) for finishing on a specific date. If the animal-related steps are the most important, tie half the bonus to that. Use good judgement to make the time attainable with energetic focus.
If you haven't already, write out the scope of the work, the quality standards, and specify exactly when and how he will be paid. This will serve both parties well.
posted by dum spiro spero at 4:08 PM on May 21 [2 favorites]
This doesn't sound like a con at all. It sounds like someone who doesn't have the experience to accurately cost a job and is perhaps not used to having to manage the whole thing themselves, so they're feeling their way a bit. You can mitigate risk by paying for materials yourself (which you've done) and not paying anything for work that hasn't been completed. The worst scenario is then that you end up with an incomplete job and have to pay someone to finish it.
You get what you pay for in terms of the capacity to accurately estimate and then manage the job so it's completed on time. If those things are important to you, you need to pay the cost of a 'real' professional.
posted by dg at 5:27 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]
You get what you pay for in terms of the capacity to accurately estimate and then manage the job so it's completed on time. If those things are important to you, you need to pay the cost of a 'real' professional.
posted by dg at 5:27 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
I tried to minimize details because they're identifiable. Okay, well. When I say "I have checked a couple of details he's mentioned offhand about himself, and been unable to verify them as true or false", here is one example:posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 3:07 AM on May 22 [2 favorites]
No. Under the name he gave me, he does not legally own a house anywhere in my neighborhood, or even in my entire county. Despite going on about how much work he's put into the house he bought a year ago, just a couple of streets over. If he has a house near me, that name is not on any relevant paperwork. That doesn't mean it's impossible. It does mean I can't verify it.
Gosh, it's really tempting to assume somebody who *says* they're a neighbor is anchored in the community, isn't it? I see so many of you would like to feel that way, too. You'd like to assume everything he said is true--but I can't verify any of it.
I want to trust this guy. I think he's great, if inexperienced, and trying really hard, and working toward a goal I admire. I like to hire such people, pay them what they ask, and then tip heavily; I've been with a number of professionals from the very start of their business. I really want to just relax and let him take care of all this work, which badly needs doing, because I got too sick to do it. I want this so very much you have no idea. As a result, I am aware my judgment is questionable.
Which is why, though I've now spotted multiple maybe-red flags such as the "not verifiably a neighbor", I do want him to continue! But I also want to prepare, in case I am wrong. I am looking for a plan to keep my ass covered no matter how it goes, and hoping I won't need it. I have a hard restriction, you see, I am not well enough to fix it myself if he leaves it half done.
"If he has a house near me, that name is not on any relevant paperwork."
Why not.... ask him? You're going to need some sort of verifiable contact info in case anything goes wrong anyway.
I think you should sit down with him and talk about the red flags you see. If you're not happy with the results and evidence he can give, you don't have to continue with the work. But don't just let things proceed to a crisis.
posted by gakiko at 3:59 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
Why not.... ask him? You're going to need some sort of verifiable contact info in case anything goes wrong anyway.
I think you should sit down with him and talk about the red flags you see. If you're not happy with the results and evidence he can give, you don't have to continue with the work. But don't just let things proceed to a crisis.
posted by gakiko at 3:59 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
One detail that isn't clear from the post or the update is what kind of price and payment terms you and your neighbour agreed to.
One common pricing arrangement is "time and materials". Your contractor charges you an hourly or daily rate for their labor, and charges you cost plus some markup (say 20%) for any materials they buy for the job. In this arrangement your contractor has not made a commitment to deliver a particular outcome or complete the work at or under any particular quoted cost. The work takes as long as it takes and costs as much as it costs. Perhaps per the terms of the contract grant you the right to terminate the work before it is complete if you decide the project looks like it has gone off the rails (i.e. costing a lot more than what you estimated initially). A contractor may give you an estimate before any work is commenced or any contract is signed, but the estimate is merely an estimate and is _not_ a quote or a commitment or legal obligation to deliver the outcome you want at or under budget.
This kind of "time and materials" arrangement may be a good fit if you the client don't know what you want and are happy to pay for someone to work with you and help you figure it out, or have a tricky/unusual/risky/bespoke situation that a contractor is not comfortable making a fixed-price bid for, but is comfortable working with you if you the client accept responsibility for budget/schedule overruns and accept responsibility if the project fails to deliver the desired outcome.
Another common pricing arrangement might be a fixed-price quote -- where your contractor agrees to deliver a particular outcome for some fixed price. This places much more risk on the contractor that if something goes awry they are on the hook to deal with it without being able to increase their bill to cover any extra costs they may incur.
Because only "estimate" was mentioned and not "quote" or "commitment" or "contract" my guess is this is a formal or infomal "time and materials" type arrangement where your neighbor has _not_ committed to deliver a particular outcome at a fixed budget.
In this situation if the work is incomplete and it looks like the initial estimate was very optimistic, it's a natural point where you can stop and consider if you want to make your own more realistic estimate of budget and schedule required to finish the job, and if it is worth sinking more money into the work, or if you prefer to walk away and abandon the work, or if perhaps you consider getting a different contractor to complete the work.
posted by are-coral-made at 5:40 AM on May 22
One common pricing arrangement is "time and materials". Your contractor charges you an hourly or daily rate for their labor, and charges you cost plus some markup (say 20%) for any materials they buy for the job. In this arrangement your contractor has not made a commitment to deliver a particular outcome or complete the work at or under any particular quoted cost. The work takes as long as it takes and costs as much as it costs. Perhaps per the terms of the contract grant you the right to terminate the work before it is complete if you decide the project looks like it has gone off the rails (i.e. costing a lot more than what you estimated initially). A contractor may give you an estimate before any work is commenced or any contract is signed, but the estimate is merely an estimate and is _not_ a quote or a commitment or legal obligation to deliver the outcome you want at or under budget.
This kind of "time and materials" arrangement may be a good fit if you the client don't know what you want and are happy to pay for someone to work with you and help you figure it out, or have a tricky/unusual/risky/bespoke situation that a contractor is not comfortable making a fixed-price bid for, but is comfortable working with you if you the client accept responsibility for budget/schedule overruns and accept responsibility if the project fails to deliver the desired outcome.
Another common pricing arrangement might be a fixed-price quote -- where your contractor agrees to deliver a particular outcome for some fixed price. This places much more risk on the contractor that if something goes awry they are on the hook to deal with it without being able to increase their bill to cover any extra costs they may incur.
Because only "estimate" was mentioned and not "quote" or "commitment" or "contract" my guess is this is a formal or infomal "time and materials" type arrangement where your neighbor has _not_ committed to deliver a particular outcome at a fixed budget.
In this situation if the work is incomplete and it looks like the initial estimate was very optimistic, it's a natural point where you can stop and consider if you want to make your own more realistic estimate of budget and schedule required to finish the job, and if it is worth sinking more money into the work, or if you prefer to walk away and abandon the work, or if perhaps you consider getting a different contractor to complete the work.
posted by are-coral-made at 5:40 AM on May 22
Tell him you’re possibly interested in doing some inside work and you’d love to see the work he’s done on his house. If he balks, he’s either not really that desperate for business or has lied about his address.
However, even that for me is forgivable as somebody trying to drum up business. I would just go with having another contractor on speed dial.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:42 AM on May 22 [2 favorites]
However, even that for me is forgivable as somebody trying to drum up business. I would just go with having another contractor on speed dial.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:42 AM on May 22 [2 favorites]
Ok, I mean, if he's not actually your neighbor you're in a different situation. But if you don't think he's your neighbor you probably shouldn't have led off with "I was approached by a neighbor" since I think most people would assume this was someone already known to you.
I don't think you'd be out of line to ask him, out of simple curiosity, where he lives and whether you can see the work he did on his place.
posted by potrzebie at 7:07 AM on May 22 [4 favorites]
I don't think you'd be out of line to ask him, out of simple curiosity, where he lives and whether you can see the work he did on his place.
posted by potrzebie at 7:07 AM on May 22 [4 favorites]
Even if he's not intending to cheat you, you should still protect yourself. Anything can happen with an inexperienced person who may have gotten in over their head, and financial desperation can make people do things they otherwise wouldn't.
posted by wryly at 7:47 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
posted by wryly at 7:47 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
Everyone saying "just sit down and talk to him," you've never actually done that with someone who was actively deceiving you, have you? Oh, I have. A seller of a house (pleasant, affable guy, "bought it for my parents, but they can't move here after all, look at all the improvements I made so carefully for them in my own spare time") kept going on about how real estate sales are public records, I could go look and see how much this house was worth. So I did. I came back with the amount he'd paid for it, and what he said he'd done to improve it, and made an offer.posted by loup (staff) at 11:06 AM on May 22
I didn't get a counteroffer; I got screaming abuse. He was furious that I had looked it up. He was furious that I had checked the value of his improvements. He was furious that I existed. Weeks of angry threatening phone calls--before common cell phones, no caller ID or number blocking, he talked to my answering machine a lot though. I guess he didn't want me to tell anybody else, or something? I mean, once it was obvious we weren't going to transact, why did he keep going? I don't know. All I know is that the easygoing, hardworking, earnest guy became dangerous... because I did exactly what he suggested (but expected I would not). People who want something can pretend to be nice, and be angry when thwarted. If they want something big, they might be viciously angry.
And *he* didn't know where I lived. I want to believe this guy. I am not willing to risk that reaction from someone who is *at my house*.
(To those who suggested having a group of people over when he's here--that DOES sound like it could help somebody else in a similar situation. Sounds great all around. Logistically not going to happen for me, but nice to think about.)
I know everybody wants to help solve all the problems, but I have one problem here that I don't know how to handle, and almost no one is addressing it:
In case I can't trust him, in case he is setting us up, how do I keep us, our animals, our home, safe?
In case I can't trust him, in case he is setting us up, how do I keep us, our animals, our home, safe?
Nobody's telling you an ironclad way to do this because there isn't one. At this point your options are to continue letting the guy work or to fire him. There's no magic way to make him not know where you live or reveal his truest deepest intentions. Whether or not you should trust him, you clearly don't, and my advice would be to pay him fairly for what he's done so far and say you all have changed your mind.
There is no guarantee that he won't become combative about this. I am sorry. You may end up having an unpleasant experience. But to be fair this is a risk you take with literally any stranger who you encounter--and most encounters do not end that way.
(If it helps, on the chance that it is some kind of elaborate scam the odds are the person will actually Not want a lot of attention drawn to himself, because that's bad for future scamming. So the odds of a big confrontation or long, drawn-out thing are pretty low. But you should be prepared for at least one bid to override your caution.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:57 AM on May 22 [7 favorites]
Nobody's telling you an ironclad way to do this because there isn't one. At this point your options are to continue letting the guy work or to fire him. There's no magic way to make him not know where you live or reveal his truest deepest intentions. Whether or not you should trust him, you clearly don't, and my advice would be to pay him fairly for what he's done so far and say you all have changed your mind.
There is no guarantee that he won't become combative about this. I am sorry. You may end up having an unpleasant experience. But to be fair this is a risk you take with literally any stranger who you encounter--and most encounters do not end that way.
(If it helps, on the chance that it is some kind of elaborate scam the odds are the person will actually Not want a lot of attention drawn to himself, because that's bad for future scamming. So the odds of a big confrontation or long, drawn-out thing are pretty low. But you should be prepared for at least one bid to override your caution.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:57 AM on May 22 [7 favorites]
Gosh, it's really tempting to assume somebody who *says* they're a neighbor is anchored in the community, isn't it? I see so many of you would like to feel that way, too.
My friend, you literally told us he was a neighbor. We don't have any information that you don't give us.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:00 PM on May 22 [17 favorites]
My friend, you literally told us he was a neighbor. We don't have any information that you don't give us.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:00 PM on May 22 [17 favorites]
Ok, I've seen your updates. I still think the worst likely thing going on is this guy is lying about where he lives as a strategy to get more business while he's starting out. But in any case this is what I'd do:
-Is there anything you can do to mitigate the risk to your animals? Can you or somebody else provide temporary lodging so that if the work takes longer than expected (which seems likely even if it's not a scam of any kind) it's not a problem? Or can you at least verify a temporary boarding option exists should you need to? Basically, get a backup plan.
It seems like the worst thing that can happen is he flakes and then you're having to scramble to find a second handyman while the animals are exposed (to weather? to predators? unclear). So I'd work to find a back up location for the animals and even contact a backup handyman now, i.e. "Hi, we already have a handyman, but in case we need someone ASAP because he's taking too long, what's your availability next week?"
I don't you are personally at any physical risk. Con artists focus on getting money, they don't want to add a potential assault charge to their rap sheet.
posted by coffeecat at 12:57 PM on May 22 [1 favorite]
-Is there anything you can do to mitigate the risk to your animals? Can you or somebody else provide temporary lodging so that if the work takes longer than expected (which seems likely even if it's not a scam of any kind) it's not a problem? Or can you at least verify a temporary boarding option exists should you need to? Basically, get a backup plan.
It seems like the worst thing that can happen is he flakes and then you're having to scramble to find a second handyman while the animals are exposed (to weather? to predators? unclear). So I'd work to find a back up location for the animals and even contact a backup handyman now, i.e. "Hi, we already have a handyman, but in case we need someone ASAP because he's taking too long, what's your availability next week?"
I don't you are personally at any physical risk. Con artists focus on getting money, they don't want to add a potential assault charge to their rap sheet.
posted by coffeecat at 12:57 PM on May 22 [1 favorite]
if he asks you for a 'loan' then don't give him one. this does still seem like you're being kind of paranoid, ngl. like, you want our opinion, that's it.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:18 PM on May 22 [7 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 2:18 PM on May 22 [7 favorites]
Given the historical situation you described, and your very strong reaction to folks trying to be helpful and answer the questions you brought, I am going to recommend that, in the future, you only make arrangements with people who have formal licensing.
Do you think there's anything this person could do to reassure you this isn't a con at this point? You might just have to wait it out.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:01 PM on May 22 [8 favorites]
Do you think there's anything this person could do to reassure you this isn't a con at this point? You might just have to wait it out.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:01 PM on May 22 [8 favorites]
What I'm worried about in this situation, honestly, is that you are so sure this guy is conning you that when he inevitably underestimated how much time and money this would take, and comes to you completely in good faith needing more from you than you'd initially agreed upon, you are in a state of mind where you will escalate, accuse him of trying to scam you, and potentially end up in some kind of altercation. And then maybe you get him arrested and ruin his life. Or maybe it turns out he lives on the next street and now someone on the next street completely, and rightly, hates your guts.
Most contractors, especially people who are new on the job but even more experienced folks, overrun their estimates. Just because he didn't realize he'd need more time doesn't mean this was a scam.
I would figure out if you can find temporary lodging for your animals to remove them from the equation. Without them at risk I think you'll feel a bit easier about all this.
Totally agree with bluedaisy above that you should never, ever, ever again hire a contractor who isn't licensed and bonded.
posted by potrzebie at 4:16 PM on May 22 [5 favorites]
Most contractors, especially people who are new on the job but even more experienced folks, overrun their estimates. Just because he didn't realize he'd need more time doesn't mean this was a scam.
I would figure out if you can find temporary lodging for your animals to remove them from the equation. Without them at risk I think you'll feel a bit easier about all this.
Totally agree with bluedaisy above that you should never, ever, ever again hire a contractor who isn't licensed and bonded.
posted by potrzebie at 4:16 PM on May 22 [5 favorites]
Are you in a rural area? When I lived in the country, I hired a lot of people who turned out to have quirks. A man doing body work on my car kept letting me drive two hours to pick it up, and then it wouldn't be ready after all and he'd start trying to sell me Amway. Another guy would always leave after a couple of hours and not come back. I figured out he was going to buy beer and I would just ask him what kind he wanted and run out to fetch some. Talking about one's financial hardships was very common and sometimes I did feel like someone was getting ready to hit me up for money, but that was usually not the case. Where I lived, I think it was just part of the local economy that there was a bit of a fiddle going on with almost everything. If you acted like you didn't understand or were impatient with that, you could raise hackles. People were mostly in fact doing you a favor in terms of how much they were charging and how difficult it would be to get the work done otherwise.
With that said, lock up your valuables. You probably don't need to at all, but do it anyway. If the part of the job that impacts your animals can be separated from the rest, just tell him you've changed your mind about that. If you suddenly find yourself in the middle of a Shirley Jackson story, at least you'll know you took precautions.
posted by BibiRose at 11:13 AM on May 23
With that said, lock up your valuables. You probably don't need to at all, but do it anyway. If the part of the job that impacts your animals can be separated from the rest, just tell him you've changed your mind about that. If you suddenly find yourself in the middle of a Shirley Jackson story, at least you'll know you took precautions.
posted by BibiRose at 11:13 AM on May 23
It seems you're accustomed to DIY house repairs, but at the moment, you're sick? Your home required immediate attention, and the person hired for this urgent job has done quality work. (Thank you for encouraging people just starting out, by the way. That's lovely. For projects in close proximity to your partner, your animals, or your home, bluedaisy's advice to rely on well-established businesses, for peace of mind, is excellent.) Before the project began, you and your partner talked about the risks of being conned and any angles a con artist could exploit. You agreed you were both comfortable moving forward. If you're worried that your partner, someone who appears "softer-hearted" as well as "in charge of the money" (I don't know what this looks like) is vulnerable to emotional appeals, you can talk about these concerns and make another plan.
When you you posted your question, he'd worked two days. On Day 2, you overheard snippets of conversation as he spoke with your partner in a "very different tone than he uses" with you. His tone and his choice of topics made you uneasy. But: Asking for a recommendation for a goat vet? There are animals of some kind on the property. Asking about cars, as he's planning a purchase? Perhaps your partner knows of someone selling a car. This may be his default small talk: providing opportunities for his listener (your partner, in this instance) to give advice. And on a work site, in casual conversation with one of his current bosses, he's subtly reinforcing the hierarchy of this business relationship.
You were already uncomfortable: you're not able to do this physical labor yourself due to illness, you're afraid of being conned, and a long time ago you had that terrible experience with the predatory real-estate crook. Hired Guy talking to your partner troubled you deeply — but you did not join the conversation nor interrupt it. (Were you away from home, and hearing bits via speakerphone? Are you on bed rest?) It doesn't read like you're concerned he was flirting with, or sexually harassing, Partner; it's more like you fear he's laying foundation for eventual scams... maybe even drawing out the project, for chances to build rapport? But he's trying to build a business, and is doing quality work. Previous answers highlight how difficult it can be to estimate timelines. Or, do you now believe any scheming *would* work, because in this instance appearances aren't deceiving: your partner is surprisingly susceptible to sob stories and does control the household budget? Or, are you anxious about how Hired Guy may view you?
Please think about what's triggering you, because these levels of anxiety and fearfulness are out of proportion given the details you've shared. Your updates are leaking agitation, too. If you're not comfortable talking with the person you live with, and you don't have a local support network, can you can call or text a friend or family member? If you can recognize that you are catastrophizing, try take a few steps back to work out why your feelings are escalating in this way. If you're not able pull out of the spiral, don't be alone with it, and do not get a gun -- get professional assistance.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:32 PM on May 24 [4 favorites]
When you you posted your question, he'd worked two days. On Day 2, you overheard snippets of conversation as he spoke with your partner in a "very different tone than he uses" with you. His tone and his choice of topics made you uneasy. But: Asking for a recommendation for a goat vet? There are animals of some kind on the property. Asking about cars, as he's planning a purchase? Perhaps your partner knows of someone selling a car. This may be his default small talk: providing opportunities for his listener (your partner, in this instance) to give advice. And on a work site, in casual conversation with one of his current bosses, he's subtly reinforcing the hierarchy of this business relationship.
You were already uncomfortable: you're not able to do this physical labor yourself due to illness, you're afraid of being conned, and a long time ago you had that terrible experience with the predatory real-estate crook. Hired Guy talking to your partner troubled you deeply — but you did not join the conversation nor interrupt it. (Were you away from home, and hearing bits via speakerphone? Are you on bed rest?) It doesn't read like you're concerned he was flirting with, or sexually harassing, Partner; it's more like you fear he's laying foundation for eventual scams... maybe even drawing out the project, for chances to build rapport? But he's trying to build a business, and is doing quality work. Previous answers highlight how difficult it can be to estimate timelines. Or, do you now believe any scheming *would* work, because in this instance appearances aren't deceiving: your partner is surprisingly susceptible to sob stories and does control the household budget? Or, are you anxious about how Hired Guy may view you?
Please think about what's triggering you, because these levels of anxiety and fearfulness are out of proportion given the details you've shared. Your updates are leaking agitation, too. If you're not comfortable talking with the person you live with, and you don't have a local support network, can you can call or text a friend or family member? If you can recognize that you are catastrophizing, try take a few steps back to work out why your feelings are escalating in this way. If you're not able pull out of the spiral, don't be alone with it, and do not get a gun -- get professional assistance.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:32 PM on May 24 [4 favorites]
This does not sound like a con to me, but that was not your question and is therefore beside the point.
I'm sorry you're in such a thorny situation. It's really lovely that despite all these alarm bells ringing, you're still considering not just your own safety but also how to do the right thing.
As someone who has been in a situation with some similarities, let me try to give some suggestions.
For your question about keeping yourself and your animals safe, I think the answer is simply to be agreeable. Even in the scenario you fear, you yourself are not being threatened - you would 'only' be pressured into a 'loan'. Can you come up with an amount of money that you would be willing to give up to stay safe? If so, keep that in mind as your response if the guy does ask for a loan. Even if it's less than what he's asking for, you can explain that it's as much as you can spare. Whether or not it's a con, he's likely to accept that and leave without making any trouble. (How does that scenario sound to you? Not ideal, I'm sure, but perhaps not as bad as you've been dreading?)
Do note that you should not bring this up of your own accord. Recall that you do not want to "hurt a man who has not hurt [you]", and having to hear you explain that you were worried about a con would be hurtful to him. Just wait and see. Remember that you have a plan even for the scenario you fear.
Am I calculating correctly that the work is supposed to be done in about a week from now? If so, it may help to tell yourself that this tension will not last. If he completes the work without any incidents, you'll probably still be on edge for a week or two, but after that, this particular worry will be over.
posted by demi-octopus at 4:51 AM on May 25
I'm sorry you're in such a thorny situation. It's really lovely that despite all these alarm bells ringing, you're still considering not just your own safety but also how to do the right thing.
As someone who has been in a situation with some similarities, let me try to give some suggestions.
For your question about keeping yourself and your animals safe, I think the answer is simply to be agreeable. Even in the scenario you fear, you yourself are not being threatened - you would 'only' be pressured into a 'loan'. Can you come up with an amount of money that you would be willing to give up to stay safe? If so, keep that in mind as your response if the guy does ask for a loan. Even if it's less than what he's asking for, you can explain that it's as much as you can spare. Whether or not it's a con, he's likely to accept that and leave without making any trouble. (How does that scenario sound to you? Not ideal, I'm sure, but perhaps not as bad as you've been dreading?)
Do note that you should not bring this up of your own accord. Recall that you do not want to "hurt a man who has not hurt [you]", and having to hear you explain that you were worried about a con would be hurtful to him. Just wait and see. Remember that you have a plan even for the scenario you fear.
Am I calculating correctly that the work is supposed to be done in about a week from now? If so, it may help to tell yourself that this tension will not last. If he completes the work without any incidents, you'll probably still be on edge for a week or two, but after that, this particular worry will be over.
posted by demi-octopus at 4:51 AM on May 25
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posted by mskyle at 7:40 AM on May 21 [41 favorites]