How to overcome one way communication
March 25, 2024 10:37 AM Subscribe
I find my partner and I don’t have bandwidth for answering questions when she’s complaining about things I do or don’t do or do wrong. How do I overcome that?
So her complaints are often based on faulty assumptions, making the expectations for change either meaningless or impossible. How do I deal with not being able to get answer in the middle of an onslaught that would make it possible to improve things?
She says that “asking her rather than finding relevant outside information is latching at mommy’s dead teat”, and that “proactive cognitive load bearing is essential co-shouldering.”
So her complaints are often based on faulty assumptions, making the expectations for change either meaningless or impossible. How do I deal with not being able to get answer in the middle of an onslaught that would make it possible to improve things?
She says that “asking her rather than finding relevant outside information is latching at mommy’s dead teat”, and that “proactive cognitive load bearing is essential co-shouldering.”
It's hard to get a good handle on what's going on in this dynamic, but have you two tried couples counseling to try and communicate more effectively?
posted by biblioPHL at 10:52 AM on March 25 [14 favorites]
posted by biblioPHL at 10:52 AM on March 25 [14 favorites]
So her complaints are often based on faulty assumptions, making the expectations for change either meaningless or impossible. How do I deal with not being able to get answer in the middle of an onslaught that would make it possible to improve things?
This sounds like pretty typical "listen and understand before trying to problem solve" stuff. It's impossible to really hear and understand someone's complaints if you're simultaneously trying to figure out how to fix them.
She says that “asking her rather than finding relevant outside information is latching at mommy’s dead teat”, and that “proactive cognitive load bearing is essential co-shouldering.”
First, wow.
Second, this is a fancy way of saying, "Please don't expect me to figure out how to solve things for you."
"Proactive cognitive load bearing" is a good idea? But only your partner knows what your partner's problems are.
posted by billjings at 10:53 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]
This sounds like pretty typical "listen and understand before trying to problem solve" stuff. It's impossible to really hear and understand someone's complaints if you're simultaneously trying to figure out how to fix them.
She says that “asking her rather than finding relevant outside information is latching at mommy’s dead teat”, and that “proactive cognitive load bearing is essential co-shouldering.”
First, wow.
Second, this is a fancy way of saying, "Please don't expect me to figure out how to solve things for you."
"Proactive cognitive load bearing" is a good idea? But only your partner knows what your partner's problems are.
posted by billjings at 10:53 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]
Re-framing the issue is probably your first step.
For example you've told us a bunch about your experience here, but you've told us very little about hers. You need to overcome her inability to answer questions as a result of her faulty assumptions, ok that's the general framework. You've said a little bit about what happens when she gets upset afterwards, but it would be helpful to know about about what you're currently trying and about how you got/get into this scenario in the first place. Try putting yourself in her shoes and seeing things from her perspective. Miscommunication is almost never fully down to only one person, so you need to figure out what you're doing that's not working for her before you can figure out how to overcome the issue for you.
(I had a list of a couple hypothetical here but we have so little information I can't even begin to narrow down the list.)
Also there are questions and there are questions, and you might be asking the wrong type of question. Questions might be "Everything is fine, why are you panicking about this?" (Not helpful) or "I hear you're worried about us not having enough time to get to your parents for dinner, but I checked the traffic and it seems like we do have enough time, was there something else we need to do first?"
posted by tiamat at 10:55 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
For example you've told us a bunch about your experience here, but you've told us very little about hers. You need to overcome her inability to answer questions as a result of her faulty assumptions, ok that's the general framework. You've said a little bit about what happens when she gets upset afterwards, but it would be helpful to know about about what you're currently trying and about how you got/get into this scenario in the first place. Try putting yourself in her shoes and seeing things from her perspective. Miscommunication is almost never fully down to only one person, so you need to figure out what you're doing that's not working for her before you can figure out how to overcome the issue for you.
(I had a list of a couple hypothetical here but we have so little information I can't even begin to narrow down the list.)
Also there are questions and there are questions, and you might be asking the wrong type of question. Questions might be "Everything is fine, why are you panicking about this?" (Not helpful) or "I hear you're worried about us not having enough time to get to your parents for dinner, but I checked the traffic and it seems like we do have enough time, was there something else we need to do first?"
posted by tiamat at 10:55 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
The way you've framed this AskMe is unclear and seems to assume that we, the readers, will sympathize with you, which makes me wonder if you're really wanting us to understand the entire situation between you and your partner accurately. If this is what your questions for your partner are like, then I'm not surprised if they find those questions difficult to answer to your satisfaction.
posted by daisystomper at 10:57 AM on March 25 [22 favorites]
posted by daisystomper at 10:57 AM on March 25 [22 favorites]
Woof! Those quotes are something else. She's mean, but she's also funny. If you still mostly like her, I can definitely see why. I can also see why you might not.
I can't answer most of this without specifics/examples. What's she assuming that's wrong? What is she asking you to research? What is she saying?
this I can answer:
"How do I deal with not being able to get answer in the middle of an onslaught"
You keep quiet, for heaven's sake. Accept that getting an answer/getting an answer in, asking her for something or telling her something, is opposite to your goal during an onslaught. During an onslaught, you are to receive what is offered. That's it. You are not to try to get something and you are not to try to give anything. You sit there and actively listen to the onslaught, always remembering that the primary goal is to hear what is being said so that you can discover what the problem is. The goal is absolutely NOT to seek for a crack in the wall into which to insert an answer--or to ask for an answer that you should be able to find for yourself by doing work. If you can sit quietly and simply listen until she is finished slaughting on, then you might be able to paraphrase her accurately and we could then help you with the research work she's asking you to do.
I, for one, think you deserve some credit for beginning that research process so that you can eventually start to co-shoulder the ol' cognitive load.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:08 AM on March 25 [30 favorites]
I can't answer most of this without specifics/examples. What's she assuming that's wrong? What is she asking you to research? What is she saying?
this I can answer:
"How do I deal with not being able to get answer in the middle of an onslaught"
You keep quiet, for heaven's sake. Accept that getting an answer/getting an answer in, asking her for something or telling her something, is opposite to your goal during an onslaught. During an onslaught, you are to receive what is offered. That's it. You are not to try to get something and you are not to try to give anything. You sit there and actively listen to the onslaught, always remembering that the primary goal is to hear what is being said so that you can discover what the problem is. The goal is absolutely NOT to seek for a crack in the wall into which to insert an answer--or to ask for an answer that you should be able to find for yourself by doing work. If you can sit quietly and simply listen until she is finished slaughting on, then you might be able to paraphrase her accurately and we could then help you with the research work she's asking you to do.
I, for one, think you deserve some credit for beginning that research process so that you can eventually start to co-shoulder the ol' cognitive load.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:08 AM on March 25 [30 favorites]
proactive cognitive load bearing is essential co-shouldering
This to me sounds very much like she's asking you to take on the mental load of household labour.
Often men rely on women to tell them what to do and how to do it around the house, rather than doing things on their own initiative and taking charge and problem solving. Also often, men feign helplessness or inability to learn how to do things in order to ensure that it's easier for their wives to do them than to teach their partners AGAIN how to do a simple task like wash a dish without leaving grease residue or similar and then yay, they never have to do them again.
Here's a past thread on the Blue that starts with a cartoon explaining what the Mental Load problem is and then has a lot of really detailed discussion about it from other Mefites. If I'm correctly diagnosing the issue, it might be helpful.
Maybe that isn't the dynamic you're describing here, it's hard to know for sure, but that's what jumped out at me.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:10 AM on March 25 [30 favorites]
This to me sounds very much like she's asking you to take on the mental load of household labour.
Often men rely on women to tell them what to do and how to do it around the house, rather than doing things on their own initiative and taking charge and problem solving. Also often, men feign helplessness or inability to learn how to do things in order to ensure that it's easier for their wives to do them than to teach their partners AGAIN how to do a simple task like wash a dish without leaving grease residue or similar and then yay, they never have to do them again.
Here's a past thread on the Blue that starts with a cartoon explaining what the Mental Load problem is and then has a lot of really detailed discussion about it from other Mefites. If I'm correctly diagnosing the issue, it might be helpful.
Maybe that isn't the dynamic you're describing here, it's hard to know for sure, but that's what jumped out at me.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:10 AM on March 25 [30 favorites]
So have you tried talking when you and she are both calm?
(Protip: when you do, don't lead with "you are wrong, you have faulty assumptions." May be best to leave that bit out entirely.)
posted by MiraK at 11:18 AM on March 25 [8 favorites]
(Protip: when you do, don't lead with "you are wrong, you have faulty assumptions." May be best to leave that bit out entirely.)
posted by MiraK at 11:18 AM on March 25 [8 favorites]
Have you ever been to therapy, either on your own or with her? I bet you would absolutely dazzle your partner if you started individual therapy or suggested couples counseling. Now, if she has been in therapy ever, and you have not, then I am going to guess that she's probably well ahead of you in understanding the language of emotions. So in that case, I'd get to therapy on your own.
In the little picture, you asked how to overcome her inability to answer your questions or provide evidence, and the answer is you don't. You listen. You reflect. Then, at some point, when you're both relaxed, you have a conversation.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:20 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
In the little picture, you asked how to overcome her inability to answer your questions or provide evidence, and the answer is you don't. You listen. You reflect. Then, at some point, when you're both relaxed, you have a conversation.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:20 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
Let's start instead with you describing a few of her specific complaints. I feel like this discussion is not going far if we don't have any context.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:23 AM on March 25 [15 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:23 AM on March 25 [15 favorites]
I agree with that your question is unclear, but based on the last sentence, in which she seems to be saying that she thinks you should understand her without further clarification, one strategy is to state your best understanding and then ask her to either confirm that or to explain how you misunderstood her. E.g., "I think you are upset that I didn't run the dishwasher before I went to bed. Is that right?" Then she can see that you are making a good-faith effort (you are making a good-faith effort, right?) to understand her perspective.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:40 AM on March 25 [5 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:40 AM on March 25 [5 favorites]
I agree with the mental load comments (though I also hope she has provided you with slightly more information than this). BUT another important way to approach this conversation is just to ask her - and sit with - how your behavior makes her feel. She might have faulty assumptions, but in a sense, facts don't matter if your actions (or lack of actions) are making her feel a certain way. Being able to frame the conversation from that standpoint and listen non-defensively is how to get started on a path to fixing this. For context, I am you in my relationship, and once I stopped trying to focus on the exact things my partner wanted me to do (which - no joke - I kept a list of) and started listening to his emotional needs, how I was making him feel, and showing him I understood, I have gotten so much better at being a decent adult partner.
posted by beyond_pink at 11:48 AM on March 25 [9 favorites]
posted by beyond_pink at 11:48 AM on March 25 [9 favorites]
Based on the limited information you've provided it seems like both you and your partner are starting from a place where you are not assuming best intentions, both expecting each other to be mind readers, and from a place of individual fault finding rather than seeking collective understanding.
Instead of starting from a place of thinking your partner is making "faulty assumptions" you tried to understand why she has the feelings and beliefs she does?
Instead of assuming you're making your partner solve all the problems, she could share more about what an ideal outcome would be for her and you could figure out how yo do your part in achieving it.
posted by brookeb at 12:17 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]
Instead of starting from a place of thinking your partner is making "faulty assumptions" you tried to understand why she has the feelings and beliefs she does?
Instead of assuming you're making your partner solve all the problems, she could share more about what an ideal outcome would be for her and you could figure out how yo do your part in achieving it.
posted by brookeb at 12:17 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]
I learned about it here on AskMe, and will pass the along the suggestion to borrow or buy Hold Me Tight by Sue Johnson.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:28 PM on March 25 [2 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 12:28 PM on March 25 [2 favorites]
I would not want to engage in communication that was regularly an onslaught, if that is what it really is. If your partner is chronically talking AT you and not trying to actually communicate but just to vent at you, and then is mad at you for "not getting it" (which.. you can't get what you don't get? Even if they think you should?) ... then I would rethink trying to play by their conversational rules.
It's one thing to sort of onslaught one's partner occasionally in a frustrated state, another thing if it's the major mode of communication. It's not about trying to dialogue in the hopes of understanding and change.
posted by barnowl at 12:38 PM on March 25 [3 favorites]
It's one thing to sort of onslaught one's partner occasionally in a frustrated state, another thing if it's the major mode of communication. It's not about trying to dialogue in the hopes of understanding and change.
posted by barnowl at 12:38 PM on March 25 [3 favorites]
So yes, limited info here - I would assume you are both contributing to the poor communication and I'd avoid placing blame - maybe she has some faulty assumptions, and maybe you're also not listening well. In any case, your goal should be to collectively figuring out a solution.
Sometimes when I'm upset at my partner, his approach (like perhaps yours?) is to fact-check how I'm feeling, which never leads anywhere productive. What I prefer that he does in that moment, if he is indeed confused by what he's done wrong (or even if he disagrees that he's done anything wrong) is (Step 1) to affirm our shared reality "I see that you're upset," then (Step 2) affirm he views me being upset as a problem "and that doesn't feel great for me to see and I'd like to figure out a solution here" and then (Step 3) he can add in his perspective "but I don't quite understand..../I think there has been a miscommunication...." Obviously these "scripts" I've provided are a bit simplistic, but that's really the general gist - if you skip to Step 3 without doing the first two steps, it is likely to increase the tension, not defuse it.
And yeah, I'd talk about all of this when you're both calm, ideally - not just about what's making her upset but also your communication patterns.
posted by coffeecat at 12:39 PM on March 25 [7 favorites]
Sometimes when I'm upset at my partner, his approach (like perhaps yours?) is to fact-check how I'm feeling, which never leads anywhere productive. What I prefer that he does in that moment, if he is indeed confused by what he's done wrong (or even if he disagrees that he's done anything wrong) is (Step 1) to affirm our shared reality "I see that you're upset," then (Step 2) affirm he views me being upset as a problem "and that doesn't feel great for me to see and I'd like to figure out a solution here" and then (Step 3) he can add in his perspective "but I don't quite understand..../I think there has been a miscommunication...." Obviously these "scripts" I've provided are a bit simplistic, but that's really the general gist - if you skip to Step 3 without doing the first two steps, it is likely to increase the tension, not defuse it.
And yeah, I'd talk about all of this when you're both calm, ideally - not just about what's making her upset but also your communication patterns.
posted by coffeecat at 12:39 PM on March 25 [7 favorites]
Based on my own bona fides as a former defensive asshole as well as my history of being partnered with someone who was chronically not pulling their weight and just didn't get it, +1 to the idea that if you're getting a stream of emotional expression, you should understand that to mean that emotional content is being conveyed and that until you've addressed the underlying feelings, it's not time to do the troubleshooting. Your partner sounds deeply frustrated, somewhat resentful (and, yes, funny). So much crucial context is missing in your question, but it is probably worth finding some time, when you are both calm, to talk about how things are feeling overall.
Aside from all of that, often when I am truly upset, questions feel overwhelming/upsetting. I don't know exactly why they register as such a charge against my emotional capacity when it's strained, but the fact is they can feel actually physically bad. The same idea packaged as a statement, though, doesn't affect me in the same way- so rather than "Why [x?]", "I'd be interested to know [x]"/"I wonder [x]". Snowflakey, maybe, but sharing in case this is something your partner also experiences, perhaps without even realizing.
posted by wormtales at 1:07 PM on March 25 [6 favorites]
Aside from all of that, often when I am truly upset, questions feel overwhelming/upsetting. I don't know exactly why they register as such a charge against my emotional capacity when it's strained, but the fact is they can feel actually physically bad. The same idea packaged as a statement, though, doesn't affect me in the same way- so rather than "Why [x?]", "I'd be interested to know [x]"/"I wonder [x]". Snowflakey, maybe, but sharing in case this is something your partner also experiences, perhaps without even realizing.
posted by wormtales at 1:07 PM on March 25 [6 favorites]
+1 to "needs an example, please." Can't answer this without making a boatload of assumptions.
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:04 PM on March 25 [3 favorites]
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:04 PM on March 25 [3 favorites]
Arguing her out of her emotions won't work. Once someone is feeling frustrated or disappointed it's too late. You can't argue them out of it by explaining to them why they should logically not feel that way.
She is right, then, that the best way to avoid these situations is to preempt them. She doesn't want you to do the dishes, she wants you to WANT to do the dishes. She doesn't want to explain her needs to you, she wants you to want to meet her needs so much on your own that you anticipate her needs.
I don't know if you have children, but imagine you have a baby or small child. That child cannot explain to you in eloquent English exactly what you need to do and say so they're not upset. You must anticipate their needs based on their limited communication skills, your past experience of them, and your general understanding of human nature and human needs. This is often called empathy. It doesn't matter why they're upset, if they are upset, they need comforting. Adults are expected to understand that certain situations are naturally upsetting for a small child and avoid them.
Not saying your partner is a small child, but it's a useful metaphor. Caretaking children is often how people (particularly women) learn empathy.
posted by stockpuppet at 2:31 PM on March 25 [6 favorites]
She is right, then, that the best way to avoid these situations is to preempt them. She doesn't want you to do the dishes, she wants you to WANT to do the dishes. She doesn't want to explain her needs to you, she wants you to want to meet her needs so much on your own that you anticipate her needs.
I don't know if you have children, but imagine you have a baby or small child. That child cannot explain to you in eloquent English exactly what you need to do and say so they're not upset. You must anticipate their needs based on their limited communication skills, your past experience of them, and your general understanding of human nature and human needs. This is often called empathy. It doesn't matter why they're upset, if they are upset, they need comforting. Adults are expected to understand that certain situations are naturally upsetting for a small child and avoid them.
Not saying your partner is a small child, but it's a useful metaphor. Caretaking children is often how people (particularly women) learn empathy.
posted by stockpuppet at 2:31 PM on March 25 [6 favorites]
I agree with jacquilynne that this sounds like it is about household work. (But please please clarify if this is not the case)
If this is the case, I expect what is happening here is something along the lines of household work isn't getting done or isn't getting done sufficiently, you wife recognizes this disparity and attributes an intentionality on your part, whereas your lack of doing this work or not doing it in a way she thinks is right is not done with malice, but rather because you didn't see that the work needed to be done, or you weren't instructed how to do it.
In a way you're both right, you didn't have bad intentions, and at the end of the day, your inability to see the problem and fix it had the effect of shoveling the work on her in a way that doesn't really speak to being a caring team member.
Since you seem to be asking her for concrete expectations, the best time to ask this is when the issue is not at crisis point. On a random day, let her know "hey, I really want to have a conversation to work this out with you, because we're in this together and I want to do my best"
And also, become more proactive about some of the mentioned work that you don't do or don't do adequately. Unless something I need to know is distinctly in my spouse's area of professional expertise, I google it. If I can't find the answer, I ask might do an askmetafilter for more ideas about how to do the thing (e.g. babyproofing an old house, cleaning showers, getting my dishwasher to work better). A lot of female people are socialized to just figure this sort of stuff out, because there is added social pressure involved. That said, everyone should learn how to look up how to do things because it's a life skill!
posted by donut_princess at 5:03 PM on March 25 [4 favorites]
If this is the case, I expect what is happening here is something along the lines of household work isn't getting done or isn't getting done sufficiently, you wife recognizes this disparity and attributes an intentionality on your part, whereas your lack of doing this work or not doing it in a way she thinks is right is not done with malice, but rather because you didn't see that the work needed to be done, or you weren't instructed how to do it.
In a way you're both right, you didn't have bad intentions, and at the end of the day, your inability to see the problem and fix it had the effect of shoveling the work on her in a way that doesn't really speak to being a caring team member.
Since you seem to be asking her for concrete expectations, the best time to ask this is when the issue is not at crisis point. On a random day, let her know "hey, I really want to have a conversation to work this out with you, because we're in this together and I want to do my best"
And also, become more proactive about some of the mentioned work that you don't do or don't do adequately. Unless something I need to know is distinctly in my spouse's area of professional expertise, I google it. If I can't find the answer, I ask might do an askmetafilter for more ideas about how to do the thing (e.g. babyproofing an old house, cleaning showers, getting my dishwasher to work better). A lot of female people are socialized to just figure this sort of stuff out, because there is added social pressure involved. That said, everyone should learn how to look up how to do things because it's a life skill!
posted by donut_princess at 5:03 PM on March 25 [4 favorites]
“asking her rather than finding relevant outside information is latching at mommy’s dead teat”
I never, ever answer DTMFA to questions on the green, but in this case I think I'll make an exception. You're trying to engage and understand, and she's kind of making fun of you for it and telling you to go figure out what she wants without her having to actually clarify anything. Yikes.
Second, this is a fancy way of saying, "Please don't expect me to figure out how to solve things for you."
I think it's a lot worse than that. It's not "fancy," it's nasty, patronizing and contemptuous. You should really break up with somebody well before you get to the point where you're saying weird, head-fuck-y shit like that to them. Just... ugh.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:03 PM on March 25 [7 favorites]
I never, ever answer DTMFA to questions on the green, but in this case I think I'll make an exception. You're trying to engage and understand, and she's kind of making fun of you for it and telling you to go figure out what she wants without her having to actually clarify anything. Yikes.
Second, this is a fancy way of saying, "Please don't expect me to figure out how to solve things for you."
I think it's a lot worse than that. It's not "fancy," it's nasty, patronizing and contemptuous. You should really break up with somebody well before you get to the point where you're saying weird, head-fuck-y shit like that to them. Just... ugh.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:03 PM on March 25 [7 favorites]
Break up/move out. Woman does not respect you. Can’t say from the limited info if you’re not also a problem, but that woman not worth going through therapy with at that age, she won’t change, she will just keep undermining you and causing you to question yourself. You said “her complaints are often based on faulty assumptions” which set off people here to not trust you, but I know what you mean, she’s gaslighting, she’s telling you things about what you’ve done that are not true. Trust yourself, leave.
posted by ixipkcams at 10:41 PM on March 25 [2 favorites]
posted by ixipkcams at 10:41 PM on March 25 [2 favorites]
If you're facing "an onslaught" of criticism and when you try to find out what you can do better she says things like “asking her rather than finding relevant outside information is latching at mommy’s dead teat" that is frankly pretty extreme and not what I would expect in a healthy relationship. So I think one of the following things is happening:
1) You don't have the listening skills to understand her needs, and she has reached a breaking point;
2) She does not have the communication skills to make her needs clear, and she has reached a breaking point;
3) She is an abusive person who is blaming you for her own emotional problems.
I don't think there's any way any of us can know which of these possibilities is the case, which is why you're getting contradictory advice. People who assume (1) or (2) are offering you advice on understanding better and/or going to counseling. People who are assuming (3) are advising you to leave her. Every piece of advice you've gotten seems sensible to me if the assumption behind it is true... but potentially misguided if the assumption is false.
If you have a friend who has witnessed the dynamic between you and your partner (even if they haven't seen these particular onslaughts), they will be in a better position to give you an outside perspective than any of us. Ask them if they think it's one of those three options, or something else I haven't thought of, or maybe a combination of multiple things. If they think it is (1) or (2), therapy might help. If it is (3) (even if it is only a little bit 3 along with other things), you need to end this relationship.
And if you can't get an outside opinion that you trust... Well, I think we sometimes have the idea that you can't end a relationship until you know who's at fault, and even then, it has to be the non-fault person initiating the breakup. That is not the case. Anybody is allowed to end a relationship that is making them miserable. Like I said, this does not sound like a happy or healthy relationship to me. So if you can't figure out what's wrong here or how you can fix it, I think it is probably time to end things. (And if you haven't been in a relationship that's happier than this one, it might be worth pursuing individual therapy to figure out why.)
posted by yankeefog at 4:32 AM on March 26 [14 favorites]
1) You don't have the listening skills to understand her needs, and she has reached a breaking point;
2) She does not have the communication skills to make her needs clear, and she has reached a breaking point;
3) She is an abusive person who is blaming you for her own emotional problems.
I don't think there's any way any of us can know which of these possibilities is the case, which is why you're getting contradictory advice. People who assume (1) or (2) are offering you advice on understanding better and/or going to counseling. People who are assuming (3) are advising you to leave her. Every piece of advice you've gotten seems sensible to me if the assumption behind it is true... but potentially misguided if the assumption is false.
If you have a friend who has witnessed the dynamic between you and your partner (even if they haven't seen these particular onslaughts), they will be in a better position to give you an outside perspective than any of us. Ask them if they think it's one of those three options, or something else I haven't thought of, or maybe a combination of multiple things. If they think it is (1) or (2), therapy might help. If it is (3) (even if it is only a little bit 3 along with other things), you need to end this relationship.
And if you can't get an outside opinion that you trust... Well, I think we sometimes have the idea that you can't end a relationship until you know who's at fault, and even then, it has to be the non-fault person initiating the breakup. That is not the case. Anybody is allowed to end a relationship that is making them miserable. Like I said, this does not sound like a happy or healthy relationship to me. So if you can't figure out what's wrong here or how you can fix it, I think it is probably time to end things. (And if you haven't been in a relationship that's happier than this one, it might be worth pursuing individual therapy to figure out why.)
posted by yankeefog at 4:32 AM on March 26 [14 favorites]
I would sit down with her in a calm moment and say, "I'm thinking more about the convo we had the other day and I can tell there are things I'm doing that you're upset about, and I want to understand them more and be a better partner to you. Can we sit down and calmly think about some specific I can start doing THIS WEEK that will help improve our relationship? Even if they feel weird or put-on, I want to teach myself some new patterns that will work better in our relationship. I understand that you want me to co-shoulder the load, and I want to do that too. It would help me to sit down for half an hour and have guidance and scripts and models for how that could look, and I will try them, and then I will try to build on them so they become habits and so I start incorporating even more similar habits".
Then together work on the goals until they are (business speak incoming) S.M.A.R.T. goals: Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-Bound."
So, not "Help around the house more", ("Help" is not Specific and "more" is not Measurable)
But rather, "Let's write a his and hers list of chores. We both need to complete these by 8pm on Thursday night."
Not "Listen to me more" ("Listen" isn't Measurable and there's no Time anchor involved)
But "When I come home, ask how my day was, let me talk, and do not interrupt me or offer solutions for five minutes".
If she says something like "don't interrupt" you can say, "Ok, can we have a tool to help me not interrupt like a conch shell a la lord of the flies, and we literally hold it when it's each person's turn to talk? I won't need it forever but if you feel like I'm interrupting you, it would help me to have a more obvious prompt to notice my impulse to interrupt."
Get creative, try to be really specific, and do it in good faith and humbly to try to be a better partner to her. At the end of each day ask how it went. At the end of the week, see if things have improved.
Important note:
When your partner is trying to communicate, calling it "the onslaught" is very negative framing and frankly shows disrespect / contempt for her opinions.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:48 PM on March 26 [3 favorites]
Then together work on the goals until they are (business speak incoming) S.M.A.R.T. goals: Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-Bound."
So, not "Help around the house more", ("Help" is not Specific and "more" is not Measurable)
But rather, "Let's write a his and hers list of chores. We both need to complete these by 8pm on Thursday night."
Not "Listen to me more" ("Listen" isn't Measurable and there's no Time anchor involved)
But "When I come home, ask how my day was, let me talk, and do not interrupt me or offer solutions for five minutes".
If she says something like "don't interrupt" you can say, "Ok, can we have a tool to help me not interrupt like a conch shell a la lord of the flies, and we literally hold it when it's each person's turn to talk? I won't need it forever but if you feel like I'm interrupting you, it would help me to have a more obvious prompt to notice my impulse to interrupt."
Get creative, try to be really specific, and do it in good faith and humbly to try to be a better partner to her. At the end of each day ask how it went. At the end of the week, see if things have improved.
Important note:
When your partner is trying to communicate, calling it "the onslaught" is very negative framing and frankly shows disrespect / contempt for her opinions.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:48 PM on March 26 [3 favorites]
Actually, your question makes me think of a dynamic I see a lot in conversations that aren't going well.
When your partner is trying to communicate, it's not the right time to ask questions. Try this new framing: When she talks, LISTEN, and even if you miss something or don't quite understand, just KEEP LISTENING until it becomes clear later (maybe an hour or even a week later!)
Rather than asking a clarifying question, just keep listening and assume it all makes sense and it will coalesce for you later. If you let her talk without interruption, it will help de-escalate her irritation (eventually) and also it allows you to gather more info about what's important to HER. What she chooses to say without your input.
At the end, you say, "Can I check if I understood?" and then summarize what she said. And then if it's still unclear, say "There was one point I didn't understand, what did you mean about ABC?". And then... LISTEN again and let her clarify.
Huge social tip: It's not your job to understand / clarify every single word as it's being said. And in fact, it's a faux pas. The point of a conversation isn't just a transmission of clear facts into YOUR brain. It's also equally (maybe even more) important for the other person to express themselves, in whatever shape that takes.
For some people, clarifying questions derail their train of thought and make them miss things, or shut down, or feel attacked or uncomfortable. And most people find questions mid-stream to be a bit rude and annoying.
Asking questions while someone is talking can actually be a subtle controlling tactic or power play - because it shows an assumption and entitlement that the only purpose of this conversation is to teach YOU. Hence she is talking only to SERVE YOU some clear facts, in an order you are controlling and a pace you are controlling by interrupting with diversions or questions. Because all that matters is what YOU understand.
But that's not what communication is.
A person who is talking is also supposed to be benefitting from the conversation! Speaking is a way for HER to explain herself, put words to feelings, clarify her position to both you AND to herself, let out emotions, share vulnerabilities, ask for what she needs, and express herself... these things are not always linear! And you can learn a lot by just listening to how SHE chooses to do that, what words she chooses, when she pauses, when her emotions shift, when she avoids eye contact, how her body language moves... all things that you can see much more clearly when she is not being steered or redirected by your interjections and questions.
So next time, I suggest you stay totally silent, try to keep listening, and grasp the whole thing as a gestalt. And then double check that you got most of it right, and finally, clarify the parts you didn't grasp.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:50 PM on March 26 [10 favorites]
When your partner is trying to communicate, it's not the right time to ask questions. Try this new framing: When she talks, LISTEN, and even if you miss something or don't quite understand, just KEEP LISTENING until it becomes clear later (maybe an hour or even a week later!)
Rather than asking a clarifying question, just keep listening and assume it all makes sense and it will coalesce for you later. If you let her talk without interruption, it will help de-escalate her irritation (eventually) and also it allows you to gather more info about what's important to HER. What she chooses to say without your input.
At the end, you say, "Can I check if I understood?" and then summarize what she said. And then if it's still unclear, say "There was one point I didn't understand, what did you mean about ABC?". And then... LISTEN again and let her clarify.
Huge social tip: It's not your job to understand / clarify every single word as it's being said. And in fact, it's a faux pas. The point of a conversation isn't just a transmission of clear facts into YOUR brain. It's also equally (maybe even more) important for the other person to express themselves, in whatever shape that takes.
For some people, clarifying questions derail their train of thought and make them miss things, or shut down, or feel attacked or uncomfortable. And most people find questions mid-stream to be a bit rude and annoying.
Asking questions while someone is talking can actually be a subtle controlling tactic or power play - because it shows an assumption and entitlement that the only purpose of this conversation is to teach YOU. Hence she is talking only to SERVE YOU some clear facts, in an order you are controlling and a pace you are controlling by interrupting with diversions or questions. Because all that matters is what YOU understand.
But that's not what communication is.
A person who is talking is also supposed to be benefitting from the conversation! Speaking is a way for HER to explain herself, put words to feelings, clarify her position to both you AND to herself, let out emotions, share vulnerabilities, ask for what she needs, and express herself... these things are not always linear! And you can learn a lot by just listening to how SHE chooses to do that, what words she chooses, when she pauses, when her emotions shift, when she avoids eye contact, how her body language moves... all things that you can see much more clearly when she is not being steered or redirected by your interjections and questions.
So next time, I suggest you stay totally silent, try to keep listening, and grasp the whole thing as a gestalt. And then double check that you got most of it right, and finally, clarify the parts you didn't grasp.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:50 PM on March 26 [10 favorites]
I agree with nouvelle-personne and that it seems clear that she is coming from an emotional place. Keep in mind that from her perspective, what she is feeling and saying is true and valid. Your job in that moment is to pay attention to the emotional component.
It sounds like she is saying that she is feeling frustrated based on some aspect of your behavior. Whether she is getting the specific details perfect or accurate or whether factual clarification would be helpful to you in that moment is less important that you hearing her saying "this is happening and I am feeling this way about it". It is valid for her to have an emotion around her perception of a behavior (without more context I have no idea if she is representing the facts of it accurately).
It's also important to remember that sharing emotional states and problem solving are two different processes that involve different parts of the brain and mixing them tends not to end well.
It also sounds like when she feels out of control, she will lash out in a way that grabs control in a way that feels hurtful to you. That is a separate conversation to have at a neutral time.
Learning how to fight productively with a partner is a crucial skill that hardly any of us have. There's a bunch of writing and videos on this out there. The most important thing I've learned around this (other than the importance of validating as distinct from problem solving) is to try to come at conflict as a team. The more it can be you and me vs the problem as opposed to you vs me, the better for everyone.
posted by softlord at 11:17 AM on March 28
It sounds like she is saying that she is feeling frustrated based on some aspect of your behavior. Whether she is getting the specific details perfect or accurate or whether factual clarification would be helpful to you in that moment is less important that you hearing her saying "this is happening and I am feeling this way about it". It is valid for her to have an emotion around her perception of a behavior (without more context I have no idea if she is representing the facts of it accurately).
It's also important to remember that sharing emotional states and problem solving are two different processes that involve different parts of the brain and mixing them tends not to end well.
It also sounds like when she feels out of control, she will lash out in a way that grabs control in a way that feels hurtful to you. That is a separate conversation to have at a neutral time.
Learning how to fight productively with a partner is a crucial skill that hardly any of us have. There's a bunch of writing and videos on this out there. The most important thing I've learned around this (other than the importance of validating as distinct from problem solving) is to try to come at conflict as a team. The more it can be you and me vs the problem as opposed to you vs me, the better for everyone.
posted by softlord at 11:17 AM on March 28
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posted by wryly at 10:47 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]