Okay, I need a lawyer. Any more advice?
February 13, 2024 4:03 PM Subscribe
I know this falls into the category of "talk to a lawyer" but I'd appreciate any other advice you have about my situation. Details inside.
In mid-November, a large semi-truck traveling in my residential Los Angeles neighborhood, after dark and in the rain, crashed into my very large oak tree. It destroyed the tree, took off the top of my wall, pretty much destroyed the tractor part of the semi, peeled off the top of the trailer part, and also wrecked a car that happened to be parked across the street. It was a Real Big Mess. The entire street was blocked for more than 24 hours because the tree was so gigantic -- the city eventually had to get involved, a crane, a special giant tow truck for the semi, etc. Full drama.
Additional fun details:
-- The trucking company is a nationwide, multi-billion-dollar operation.
-- I am in a hilly, old neighborhood with very narrow streets. Comments from the truck driver at the time were along the lines of "I told my bosses this truck was too large for this area" and "I didn't even want to come up here in the daylight, much less at night."
-- My tree was a coast live oak, approximately 150 years old. This is a native, protected species and by law they must be maintained. They can't be removed without a city permit, and those are usually only granted if the tree is dead or in some way extremely hazardous. (Otherwise if you want to get rid of one it has to be dug up and moved.) Most local gardeners/garden service companies know enough of this that they won't even trim a coast live oak.
-- We maintained the tree by using a certified master arborist. His post-accident report states that replacing a tree of that size would cost in the neighborhood of $250k. He values the tree at $50k.
-- I contacted the trucking company immediately and opened a claim, sent them photos, video, an appraisal. Now it's been crickets since mid-December. The most I've gotten out of them in early January was "we're working with our outside appraiser and we'll get back to you." They don't return phone calls or emails.
-- Blessedly, the people whose parked car got wrecked don't seem to be interested in suing me, as the tree owner.
HOWEVER:
-- The tree was behind a wall but it did arch over the street. The arborist said it was trimmed appropriately. Which I guess means "to an appropriate height." The truck driver would not have hit it had he be driving more carefully generally, but also because he scraped my wall as well I can see that he was in the area where cars would have been parked had any been there at the time.
-- I have not filed a homeowner's insurance claim because we're in an area where almost all insurance companies have pulled out, and I'm certain they would not renew our policy. If I never get a dime from the trucking company, I still will not file a homeowner's claim.
So...lawyer? But is there anything else I should be thinking about now or first?
There's like two feet of stump left of this once-towering tree. The arborist says we might actually see new growth from the stump...but obviously even if yes, it won't be towering again for another 150 years. :(
In mid-November, a large semi-truck traveling in my residential Los Angeles neighborhood, after dark and in the rain, crashed into my very large oak tree. It destroyed the tree, took off the top of my wall, pretty much destroyed the tractor part of the semi, peeled off the top of the trailer part, and also wrecked a car that happened to be parked across the street. It was a Real Big Mess. The entire street was blocked for more than 24 hours because the tree was so gigantic -- the city eventually had to get involved, a crane, a special giant tow truck for the semi, etc. Full drama.
Additional fun details:
-- The trucking company is a nationwide, multi-billion-dollar operation.
-- I am in a hilly, old neighborhood with very narrow streets. Comments from the truck driver at the time were along the lines of "I told my bosses this truck was too large for this area" and "I didn't even want to come up here in the daylight, much less at night."
-- My tree was a coast live oak, approximately 150 years old. This is a native, protected species and by law they must be maintained. They can't be removed without a city permit, and those are usually only granted if the tree is dead or in some way extremely hazardous. (Otherwise if you want to get rid of one it has to be dug up and moved.) Most local gardeners/garden service companies know enough of this that they won't even trim a coast live oak.
-- We maintained the tree by using a certified master arborist. His post-accident report states that replacing a tree of that size would cost in the neighborhood of $250k. He values the tree at $50k.
-- I contacted the trucking company immediately and opened a claim, sent them photos, video, an appraisal. Now it's been crickets since mid-December. The most I've gotten out of them in early January was "we're working with our outside appraiser and we'll get back to you." They don't return phone calls or emails.
-- Blessedly, the people whose parked car got wrecked don't seem to be interested in suing me, as the tree owner.
HOWEVER:
-- The tree was behind a wall but it did arch over the street. The arborist said it was trimmed appropriately. Which I guess means "to an appropriate height." The truck driver would not have hit it had he be driving more carefully generally, but also because he scraped my wall as well I can see that he was in the area where cars would have been parked had any been there at the time.
-- I have not filed a homeowner's insurance claim because we're in an area where almost all insurance companies have pulled out, and I'm certain they would not renew our policy. If I never get a dime from the trucking company, I still will not file a homeowner's claim.
So...lawyer? But is there anything else I should be thinking about now or first?
There's like two feet of stump left of this once-towering tree. The arborist says we might actually see new growth from the stump...but obviously even if yes, it won't be towering again for another 150 years. :(
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
That said, this is a really useful write up and a couple things stick out to me as a non-lawyer.
First, that the trucker mentioned he had already told his bosses the area was too tight for his vehicle and they required him in the course of his job to go down that road in the dark and in the rain.
Second, that the damage to the car was a reasonably foreseeable and proximate result of the truck hitting the tree.
If the cost of a lawyer is prohibitive, it might be a possibility for you to go in on the cost of a lawyer together with the owners of the car.
posted by donut_princess at 5:06 PM on February 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
That said, this is a really useful write up and a couple things stick out to me as a non-lawyer.
First, that the trucker mentioned he had already told his bosses the area was too tight for his vehicle and they required him in the course of his job to go down that road in the dark and in the rain.
Second, that the damage to the car was a reasonably foreseeable and proximate result of the truck hitting the tree.
If the cost of a lawyer is prohibitive, it might be a possibility for you to go in on the cost of a lawyer together with the owners of the car.
posted by donut_princess at 5:06 PM on February 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
You have your arborist's post-accident report; do you have reports from your local authorities? Gather pre-destruction photos, arborist receipts and reports, etc., for your lawyer's appointment. Consider how the tree added value to your overall property, reduced heat gain and utility bills with its shade, and so on. If the trucking company did replace your tree with a relocated, same-size specimen, there's no guarantee it would thrive.
And please talk with a lawyer soon, and consider anonymizing your question. (Choosing *not* to file with your homeowner's insurance is a factor in dealing with the trucking company, and the rest of the details in the "HOWEVER" section interfere with your main argument with the company: Their driver made contact with your wall, destroyed your protected, $$$ tree, and it's been documented independently [& by an expert in your employ].)
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:10 PM on February 13, 2024 [5 favorites]
And please talk with a lawyer soon, and consider anonymizing your question. (Choosing *not* to file with your homeowner's insurance is a factor in dealing with the trucking company, and the rest of the details in the "HOWEVER" section interfere with your main argument with the company: Their driver made contact with your wall, destroyed your protected, $$$ tree, and it's been documented independently [& by an expert in your employ].)
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:10 PM on February 13, 2024 [5 favorites]
Tree Law is a whole thing. There's a subreddit dedicated to it. You definitely need a lawyer.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 6:01 PM on February 13, 2024 [7 favorites]
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 6:01 PM on February 13, 2024 [7 favorites]
I don't know how you find a person with this specialty, but I think you are looking for someone with expertise in tree law (tree law tree law tree law). Depending on your location, there are likely quite a lot of things that need to be known based on local, city, state, and federal laws and considering the potential scope of the cost to replace, it seems worth look for someone with that legal knowledge.
posted by past unusual at 6:02 PM on February 13, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by past unusual at 6:02 PM on February 13, 2024 [3 favorites]
I am not a lawyer (yet). I am definitely not a lawyer, which you definitely need, and I do not practice in the field of law that you need.
However:if this were a hypothetical in law school, I would ask questions like: who was around to hear the truck driver's potentially excited utterances? How much time has passed and is there any chance they are trying to run out some sort of clock or cause delay to work against you? How much evidence do you have and have you been collecting it and putting it in a folder to show the lawyer that you're going to consult with? Does that evidence include statements you've written down about as much as you can remember?
posted by corb at 7:07 PM on February 13, 2024 [2 favorites]
However:if this were a hypothetical in law school, I would ask questions like: who was around to hear the truck driver's potentially excited utterances? How much time has passed and is there any chance they are trying to run out some sort of clock or cause delay to work against you? How much evidence do you have and have you been collecting it and putting it in a folder to show the lawyer that you're going to consult with? Does that evidence include statements you've written down about as much as you can remember?
posted by corb at 7:07 PM on February 13, 2024 [2 favorites]
This company must have liability insurance. People don't get to drive around professionally without without having insurance that covers them when they cause property damage, which is what happened here. You need to file the claim against the company's insurance.
posted by brookeb at 8:17 PM on February 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by brookeb at 8:17 PM on February 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
I think you're looking for a "tree savvy" property damage lawyer? (Though many focus on battling insurance companies.) ["Real property is your home, the land, and things permanently attached to the land, whether natural or artificial. You’re entitled to money if your real property was damaged because of someone’s negligence. California law says that the standard of real property damages is 1) the reduction in the property’s value; or 2) the reasonable cost of repair, whichever is less. See CC § 3334(a)." Another law blog's .pdf overview; CA court info; Cal. Code Regs. Tit. 13, § 1214 - Driver Fatigue.] The property damage statute of limitations in California is three years.
California law requires traffic accidents on a California street/highway or private property to be reported to the Department of Motor Vehicles within 10 days if there was an injury, death or property damage [...] requires the driver [or insurance agent, attorney, or other designated representative] to file this SR-1 form within 10 days of the accident regardless of fault...
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:26 PM on February 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
California law requires traffic accidents on a California street/highway or private property to be reported to the Department of Motor Vehicles within 10 days if there was an injury, death or property damage [...] requires the driver [or insurance agent, attorney, or other designated representative] to file this SR-1 form within 10 days of the accident regardless of fault...
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:26 PM on February 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
Your homeowners insurance may not actually see this as a negative on your account (you could maybe phone them and ask hypotheticals without revealing your name or policy). They would normally make you whole and then go after the trucking company for what it cost them, so the claim costs them nothing at all (and your deductible shouldn't come into it).
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 9:55 PM on February 13, 2024
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 9:55 PM on February 13, 2024
Trucking company has done what it should have done: opened a claim with its insurer. Given they're national, you should be able to find their insurer listed in NHTSA / DOT's website. You just need a claim number from them, so you can go check with the insurer directly.
You may be able to get it from the city as it's clear the city would be going after them for its costs as well. But it's much easier if you have a lawyer doing all this for you. And lawyers should love cases like this since you "can't lose".
posted by kschang at 11:20 PM on February 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
You may be able to get it from the city as it's clear the city would be going after them for its costs as well. But it's much easier if you have a lawyer doing all this for you. And lawyers should love cases like this since you "can't lose".
posted by kschang at 11:20 PM on February 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
Tree law is literally it's own thing. Doubly so with a protected species.
You could post in r/legaladvice, which LOVES tree law! I would ask if there's a special type of lawyer you should consult, actually.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:12 AM on February 14, 2024
You could post in r/legaladvice, which LOVES tree law! I would ask if there's a special type of lawyer you should consult, actually.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:12 AM on February 14, 2024
I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. I don't practice tree law.
The Legal Advice subreddit is hit and miss. They do love tree law. They also love pictures and diagrams (especially bad MS Paint diagrams). Use that information as you may.
I am warning you now that finding a lawyer may be difficult; do not relent, do not delay. Plaintiff Lawyers (lawyers who represent claimants, like you) generally make their money by taking a percentage of your recovery, or by their being attorneys fees awarded by law. I don't practice tree law, so I don't know if there is a law that helps you. If it's just recovery for property damage, that makes it more difficult. (Because if it costs $250k to replace, and you get $250k, then how do you pay the lawyer?) There may not be any emotional distress damages for this.
The time to bring a lawsuit like this is usually 2 years from the day of the accident, but exceptions abound. Do not delay.
The amount of damages you describe are a lot, but they should be well within the limits of the trucking company. Don't let them cry poor.
This is definitely get a lawyer territory. Do what you can to find one soon, before memories fade and you loose any evidence. Good luck!!
posted by China Grover at 7:41 AM on February 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
The Legal Advice subreddit is hit and miss. They do love tree law. They also love pictures and diagrams (especially bad MS Paint diagrams). Use that information as you may.
I am warning you now that finding a lawyer may be difficult; do not relent, do not delay. Plaintiff Lawyers (lawyers who represent claimants, like you) generally make their money by taking a percentage of your recovery, or by their being attorneys fees awarded by law. I don't practice tree law, so I don't know if there is a law that helps you. If it's just recovery for property damage, that makes it more difficult. (Because if it costs $250k to replace, and you get $250k, then how do you pay the lawyer?) There may not be any emotional distress damages for this.
The time to bring a lawsuit like this is usually 2 years from the day of the accident, but exceptions abound. Do not delay.
The amount of damages you describe are a lot, but they should be well within the limits of the trucking company. Don't let them cry poor.
This is definitely get a lawyer territory. Do what you can to find one soon, before memories fade and you loose any evidence. Good luck!!
posted by China Grover at 7:41 AM on February 14, 2024 [4 favorites]
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posted by bluedaisy at 4:13 PM on February 13, 2024 [12 favorites]