Women-can’t-have-it-all: unsupportive parents edition
January 29, 2024 12:42 AM Subscribe
I’m a working mother of a young child. Ever since I got pregnant, my parents have been hinting with words and actions that I should be a SAHM. I don’t agree with them but it’s taking a toll on me. How do I dissociate given that I otherwise have a close and healthy relationship with them?
Anecdotes:
- On first hearing of my pregnancy, my mother’s immediate question was when I was going to quit my job.
- All my childhood, my SAHM mother (and my father, to a lesser extent) spoke derisively of working mothers, with a host of contradictory opinions that fit their narrative. Women do the soft useless jobs men don’t want. Women selfishly take away jobs from men who need them to support families. Women have hobbies that pay for “pocket money” which they self-aggrandize about. The most valuable role of a woman is in raising good kids.
- They have expressed their preference for a non working wife for my brother.
- They were incredibly unsupportive during the first few years of my child’s life. They didn’t help (which is fine), but they also expect(ed) me to visit them frequently (in another country) so they could see their grandchild. Which they are also justified in wanting, but put me in the position of working without childcare in a different time zone for weeks at a time. (My husband can’t travel to take on childcare at those times. My parents refuse to let me hire babysitters while I’m visiting them due to fear of paid childcare, and babysitters are not very common or reliable where they live anyway.)
- I have a husband and brother that are both publicly successful in their careers. Think, press interviews, awards, and so on. My job, while it pays better than either of theirs, is a corporate tech job with no public profile. This, to them, is consistent with their general narrative that women’s jobs are fluffy (though I’m in a male dominated field). They are extremely proud of both their successes, as am I, but promotions, etc that I get are ignored. They can’t stop talking about every little thing related to my brother’s job. I don’t think they really even know what I do because they don’t ask, and they zone out when I explain.
- Whenever I mention being tired or overwhelmed, they used to suggest I quit, and now they just ignore me. I’m not looking for help, and I say so, but they’re unwilling to provide a sympathetic ear.
- When I mentioned being stressed about layoffs, they change the topic. When my company had a massive news-making layoff recently, their way of comforting me was to say, “even if you were laid off, it’s not the end of the world” (in an irritable tone).
- My husband or brother being in a situation where they are temporarily not getting enough sleep due to work, or are stressed about work, get an outpouring of sympathy and anxiety from them, while they take it for for granted that I fly to see them twice a year with my daughter on 24 hour trips and immediately start working after landing (without childcare on that side) due to limited PTO, not to mention I had no sleep for two years and now have no time for myself.
- They frequently mention women they know who are taking “career breaks” in a way that’s clear they think it’s the right thing to do. (Sadly, it’s pretty common where they live due to the lack of reliable paid childcare and attitudes such as theirs in the workplace.)
All this is nothing tangible, but rather, the things they say make me feel guilty for working, or worthless as far as my job goes.
I anticipate commenters will suggest not visiting them often to cut down on stress, but it’s important to me to see them since I’m close to them otherwise and they’re getting older, and my daughter loves visiting, so please hold off on that. The trips will evolve as she gets older anyway.
I also have no interest in trying to change their minds.
They are otherwise good parents. It should be noted they were reasonably supportive, if less so than with my brother, of my career until I became a mom.
What I’m looking for is advice on how to ignore these things when I’m talking to them multiple times a week, and how to regain self confidence in myself after a few years of being told, explicitly and implicitly, that my career is worthless and a bad idea, by people whose approval I crave. I sometimes flirt with the idea of being a SAHM just to make them happy, and when I do achieve something at work, I’m not proud of it at all. Over time, I stopped trying to achieve a balance of childcare duties between my husband and myself, partly because I’ve given up, but also partly because I want to prove to myself that I’m an involved mom, and because I have taken it for granted he needs rest since he has more of a “real job”.
(Smart comebacks that are not hurtful to them but are also not just “here’s our tiresome daughter being a grouch again” would be a bonus.)
Anecdotes:
- On first hearing of my pregnancy, my mother’s immediate question was when I was going to quit my job.
- All my childhood, my SAHM mother (and my father, to a lesser extent) spoke derisively of working mothers, with a host of contradictory opinions that fit their narrative. Women do the soft useless jobs men don’t want. Women selfishly take away jobs from men who need them to support families. Women have hobbies that pay for “pocket money” which they self-aggrandize about. The most valuable role of a woman is in raising good kids.
- They have expressed their preference for a non working wife for my brother.
- They were incredibly unsupportive during the first few years of my child’s life. They didn’t help (which is fine), but they also expect(ed) me to visit them frequently (in another country) so they could see their grandchild. Which they are also justified in wanting, but put me in the position of working without childcare in a different time zone for weeks at a time. (My husband can’t travel to take on childcare at those times. My parents refuse to let me hire babysitters while I’m visiting them due to fear of paid childcare, and babysitters are not very common or reliable where they live anyway.)
- I have a husband and brother that are both publicly successful in their careers. Think, press interviews, awards, and so on. My job, while it pays better than either of theirs, is a corporate tech job with no public profile. This, to them, is consistent with their general narrative that women’s jobs are fluffy (though I’m in a male dominated field). They are extremely proud of both their successes, as am I, but promotions, etc that I get are ignored. They can’t stop talking about every little thing related to my brother’s job. I don’t think they really even know what I do because they don’t ask, and they zone out when I explain.
- Whenever I mention being tired or overwhelmed, they used to suggest I quit, and now they just ignore me. I’m not looking for help, and I say so, but they’re unwilling to provide a sympathetic ear.
- When I mentioned being stressed about layoffs, they change the topic. When my company had a massive news-making layoff recently, their way of comforting me was to say, “even if you were laid off, it’s not the end of the world” (in an irritable tone).
- My husband or brother being in a situation where they are temporarily not getting enough sleep due to work, or are stressed about work, get an outpouring of sympathy and anxiety from them, while they take it for for granted that I fly to see them twice a year with my daughter on 24 hour trips and immediately start working after landing (without childcare on that side) due to limited PTO, not to mention I had no sleep for two years and now have no time for myself.
- They frequently mention women they know who are taking “career breaks” in a way that’s clear they think it’s the right thing to do. (Sadly, it’s pretty common where they live due to the lack of reliable paid childcare and attitudes such as theirs in the workplace.)
All this is nothing tangible, but rather, the things they say make me feel guilty for working, or worthless as far as my job goes.
I anticipate commenters will suggest not visiting them often to cut down on stress, but it’s important to me to see them since I’m close to them otherwise and they’re getting older, and my daughter loves visiting, so please hold off on that. The trips will evolve as she gets older anyway.
I also have no interest in trying to change their minds.
They are otherwise good parents. It should be noted they were reasonably supportive, if less so than with my brother, of my career until I became a mom.
What I’m looking for is advice on how to ignore these things when I’m talking to them multiple times a week, and how to regain self confidence in myself after a few years of being told, explicitly and implicitly, that my career is worthless and a bad idea, by people whose approval I crave. I sometimes flirt with the idea of being a SAHM just to make them happy, and when I do achieve something at work, I’m not proud of it at all. Over time, I stopped trying to achieve a balance of childcare duties between my husband and myself, partly because I’ve given up, but also partly because I want to prove to myself that I’m an involved mom, and because I have taken it for granted he needs rest since he has more of a “real job”.
(Smart comebacks that are not hurtful to them but are also not just “here’s our tiresome daughter being a grouch again” would be a bonus.)
This sounds incredibly rough.
Big congrats to you for being ambitious, early in your life and career, in spite of your parents' less supportive attitudes.
Do any of your siblings or spouse ever stand up for you or argue back when your parents express their destructive attitudes or display their sexist double standards? If not, that is something that (in my opinion) you are entitled to be resentful about, even if you are taking the high road of choosing not to be.
When critics' voices get in my head, sometimes it helps me to remember other voices of people whose approval I also care about and who do support me. Are there people in your life who noticed your talent and encouraged your ambition? Maybe even in brusque ways, like telling you it would be a shame to waste your potential? Do you have friends, especially other working mothers, who think you are amazing *as a person and not only in your role as a mother* and whom you also think very well of?
Your ambition is worth nurturing and preserving, and I wish you well in guarding it from these unfair attacks.
posted by brainwane at 2:59 AM on January 29 [15 favorites]
Big congrats to you for being ambitious, early in your life and career, in spite of your parents' less supportive attitudes.
Do any of your siblings or spouse ever stand up for you or argue back when your parents express their destructive attitudes or display their sexist double standards? If not, that is something that (in my opinion) you are entitled to be resentful about, even if you are taking the high road of choosing not to be.
When critics' voices get in my head, sometimes it helps me to remember other voices of people whose approval I also care about and who do support me. Are there people in your life who noticed your talent and encouraged your ambition? Maybe even in brusque ways, like telling you it would be a shame to waste your potential? Do you have friends, especially other working mothers, who think you are amazing *as a person and not only in your role as a mother* and whom you also think very well of?
Your ambition is worth nurturing and preserving, and I wish you well in guarding it from these unfair attacks.
posted by brainwane at 2:59 AM on January 29 [15 favorites]
I'm sorry your family has been so unsupportive. In terms of how to ignore their comments, I would try to focus on the fact that your parents are the product of a time and environment very different than the one you live in and that they may feel defensive of their own life choices as you make different ones. This doesn't excuse their comments or their willful failure to challenge their own thinking, but you may need to think of this less as "I don't have the support I need from people whose opinion I trust" and more as "It's really weird that these aliens hovering above in a UFO feel they need to critique my Earthling ways that they have no framework for understanding."
Relatedly, and I think you know this, bear in mind how unfair your parents' approach is in devaluing the labor done by stay-at-home (or what I'd rather call work-at-home) parents. That is a hard effing job that in most places receives zero monetary compensation while contributing a good deal to
individual households and to society as a whole. Your parents' attitudes, which are essentially that SAHMs are paid in moral superiority, is part of what keeps it that way. Your resistance to that is a positive, in my view.
For your own thinking, and with absolutely no slight intended on those who can and do choose to be SAHPs, I would look at studies of improved outcomes for kids of moms who worked while young. There is a bit of mixed data on some issues, but overall the news is good. The positive outcomes can also be much harder to perceive when your child is very young. Anecdotally, I have very mixed feelings about my own career that predate my kids, but the time I feel the absolute best about it is when I'm volunteering in SonInWaiting's class for career-related programs (which I can do because I'm the flextime parent) and can say, "I'm SonInWaiting's mom, and I'm here to talk to you because I'm also [job]!"
I tend to focus on the "how does this look to and affect my kids" over peer working-mom support (which I do have) because of my complicated relationship to work, both mine and others'. Ideally, I'd want a better world for us all with far less work grind, but understanding that this is not likely to be reality in 10-20 years, I want my children and their peers to find work that fits them as much as possible, which means having a paid job and being open about its pros and cons.
posted by LadyInWaiting at 3:33 AM on January 29 [4 favorites]
Relatedly, and I think you know this, bear in mind how unfair your parents' approach is in devaluing the labor done by stay-at-home (or what I'd rather call work-at-home) parents. That is a hard effing job that in most places receives zero monetary compensation while contributing a good deal to
individual households and to society as a whole. Your parents' attitudes, which are essentially that SAHMs are paid in moral superiority, is part of what keeps it that way. Your resistance to that is a positive, in my view.
For your own thinking, and with absolutely no slight intended on those who can and do choose to be SAHPs, I would look at studies of improved outcomes for kids of moms who worked while young. There is a bit of mixed data on some issues, but overall the news is good. The positive outcomes can also be much harder to perceive when your child is very young. Anecdotally, I have very mixed feelings about my own career that predate my kids, but the time I feel the absolute best about it is when I'm volunteering in SonInWaiting's class for career-related programs (which I can do because I'm the flextime parent) and can say, "I'm SonInWaiting's mom, and I'm here to talk to you because I'm also [job]!"
I tend to focus on the "how does this look to and affect my kids" over peer working-mom support (which I do have) because of my complicated relationship to work, both mine and others'. Ideally, I'd want a better world for us all with far less work grind, but understanding that this is not likely to be reality in 10-20 years, I want my children and their peers to find work that fits them as much as possible, which means having a paid job and being open about its pros and cons.
posted by LadyInWaiting at 3:33 AM on January 29 [4 favorites]
I saw from a previous question in your history that your parents and my parents come from similar cultures. So - and please tell me if this is unhelpful - maybe it would help you to know how my parents thought about supporting their daughters' careers, and have that model working in your head to counter the "your career is worthless and bad" model your parents have installed.
My father and mother told us (nearly quoting): "We have two responsibilities in this life. One is to get you settled [married]. The other is to make sure you can stand on your own two feet [support yourself with a job]." They hoped of course that their daughters' husbands would be intelligent and hard-working professionals as well, but they knew that it's important for both parents in a family to be able to financially contribute, since either one of them could be struck by layoffs, illness, etc. or even something more drastic. And what if he started abusing you and you needed to get divorced? (My mom volunteered in an organization that helped domestic violence victims, although I did not know that till I was older.) My parents cared A LOT about keeping us safe (in fact their emphasis on this is something I still struggle with) and I don't think they would have felt nearly as safe about the idea of their daughters becoming purely stay-at-home moms with no paid work to fall back on.
When I was thinking about having children, I asked my mom - I thought rhetorically - how one balances career and being a mom. And she said: "Here's what you do." and laid out a plan, involving getting well entrenched in a job/career, taking a break to have a child, eventually returning part-time or work-from-home for a while, and then going to full-time once the child was in school full-time, repeat for each child. She presented this as the solution.
So: like yours, I think, my parents had the standard cultural expectations where they really wanted me to marry a guy and have children with him. But they also wanted me to have a fulfilling career, because it would make me happy and be good for the contribution I would make to the world, but also for my own protection, and to protect their grandchildren as well.
This likely will not help you develop witty comebacks that you speak aloud to deflect their dismissive comments. But maybe it could provide a sort of phantom or prosthetic support you can imagine the next time the parents-in-your-head say something like this - you could imagine what sort of attitude they could have instead. You already know how you have seen them treat a male child, but even if they were going to treat your ambitions differently because of cultural attitudes, here's a plausible sort of way they could have been.
My parents have now died. They would be proud of you, if you were their daughter. Here are some things I empirically know: They would celebrate every promotion and every achievement. My mom would want to keep up on all your projects and give you unsolicited advice, and when she visited your home she would suggest inviting your colleagues home for dinner and she would cook for them and talk with them. If you had a big deadline and needed to go take care of work then they would call in favors to get childcare. They would suggest that distant cousins-of-friends-of-neighbors were likely to need your advice on something your expertise is tangential to, and similarly, you would be introduced (without checking with you first) to acquaintances and uncles who could possibly do you some unspecified favor or bestow their wisdom upon you in something having to do with your career. A lot of these gestures of support wouldn't be functionally helpful and might actually be annoying in practice, and I mention those details in case that helps it feel real to you, in case that helps you translate this fantasy to the texture of your own life.
posted by brainwane at 4:00 AM on January 29 [43 favorites]
My father and mother told us (nearly quoting): "We have two responsibilities in this life. One is to get you settled [married]. The other is to make sure you can stand on your own two feet [support yourself with a job]." They hoped of course that their daughters' husbands would be intelligent and hard-working professionals as well, but they knew that it's important for both parents in a family to be able to financially contribute, since either one of them could be struck by layoffs, illness, etc. or even something more drastic. And what if he started abusing you and you needed to get divorced? (My mom volunteered in an organization that helped domestic violence victims, although I did not know that till I was older.) My parents cared A LOT about keeping us safe (in fact their emphasis on this is something I still struggle with) and I don't think they would have felt nearly as safe about the idea of their daughters becoming purely stay-at-home moms with no paid work to fall back on.
When I was thinking about having children, I asked my mom - I thought rhetorically - how one balances career and being a mom. And she said: "Here's what you do." and laid out a plan, involving getting well entrenched in a job/career, taking a break to have a child, eventually returning part-time or work-from-home for a while, and then going to full-time once the child was in school full-time, repeat for each child. She presented this as the solution.
So: like yours, I think, my parents had the standard cultural expectations where they really wanted me to marry a guy and have children with him. But they also wanted me to have a fulfilling career, because it would make me happy and be good for the contribution I would make to the world, but also for my own protection, and to protect their grandchildren as well.
This likely will not help you develop witty comebacks that you speak aloud to deflect their dismissive comments. But maybe it could provide a sort of phantom or prosthetic support you can imagine the next time the parents-in-your-head say something like this - you could imagine what sort of attitude they could have instead. You already know how you have seen them treat a male child, but even if they were going to treat your ambitions differently because of cultural attitudes, here's a plausible sort of way they could have been.
My parents have now died. They would be proud of you, if you were their daughter. Here are some things I empirically know: They would celebrate every promotion and every achievement. My mom would want to keep up on all your projects and give you unsolicited advice, and when she visited your home she would suggest inviting your colleagues home for dinner and she would cook for them and talk with them. If you had a big deadline and needed to go take care of work then they would call in favors to get childcare. They would suggest that distant cousins-of-friends-of-neighbors were likely to need your advice on something your expertise is tangential to, and similarly, you would be introduced (without checking with you first) to acquaintances and uncles who could possibly do you some unspecified favor or bestow their wisdom upon you in something having to do with your career. A lot of these gestures of support wouldn't be functionally helpful and might actually be annoying in practice, and I mention those details in case that helps it feel real to you, in case that helps you translate this fantasy to the texture of your own life.
posted by brainwane at 4:00 AM on January 29 [43 favorites]
Oh man. This sucks so much. I'm so sad and mad for you.
I feel like it would be much easier to tolerate your parents' ignorance if you were well-supported at home.
Over time, I stopped trying to achieve a balance of childcare duties between my husband and myself, partly because I’ve given up, but also partly because I want to prove to myself that I’m an involved mom, and because I have taken it for granted he needs rest since he has more of a “real job”.
This is not okay friend. You're going to burn out. It's hard to be a good patient parent when you're exhausted beyond belief and trying to keep everything together. You need to find some balance at home - and you're the primary income earner! Perhaps therapy for yourself or you and your husband both to reframe this? And your husband should be backing you up with your parents whenever he can - "Oh, we'd be lost without redlines income, thank goodness I married someone so successful, etc etc"
Sort of related, in her book How To Keep House While Drowning KC Davis talks about how the goal shouldn't be an equal amount but rather an equal amount of rest. Which was a bit revelatory for me though I haven't entirely figured out how to implement that...
posted by stray at 5:21 AM on January 29 [37 favorites]
I feel like it would be much easier to tolerate your parents' ignorance if you were well-supported at home.
Over time, I stopped trying to achieve a balance of childcare duties between my husband and myself, partly because I’ve given up, but also partly because I want to prove to myself that I’m an involved mom, and because I have taken it for granted he needs rest since he has more of a “real job”.
This is not okay friend. You're going to burn out. It's hard to be a good patient parent when you're exhausted beyond belief and trying to keep everything together. You need to find some balance at home - and you're the primary income earner! Perhaps therapy for yourself or you and your husband both to reframe this? And your husband should be backing you up with your parents whenever he can - "Oh, we'd be lost without redlines income, thank goodness I married someone so successful, etc etc"
Sort of related, in her book How To Keep House While Drowning KC Davis talks about how the goal shouldn't be an equal amount but rather an equal amount of rest. Which was a bit revelatory for me though I haven't entirely figured out how to implement that...
posted by stray at 5:21 AM on January 29 [37 favorites]
Your mom's unsupportiveness could be a sour-grapes situation. If she were to wholeheartedly celebrate your work achievements, she might have to admit that she herself would've preferred to have a high-paying job, promotions, and professional respect in addition to being a mom. Facing that could mean an avalanche of regret. Since it's now too late and she's in her elder years, she'd have to admit that she wishes her life had gone a different direction but it's impossible to change now.
Many people are not able to face that deep regret head-on. They actively suppress anything that triggers the regret. They find it too disturbing to hear about their daughter living the life they wish they had lived. They evangelize how their life choice was actually for the best, and everyone else needs to join their way of life.
An analogy is how people react when a woman is childfree and enjoys her disposable income and free time. The happy parents shrug and say "good for her". But the mothers who struggle daily with barely-suppressed regret will sometimes explode in judgement. Every time they see the childfree woman enjoying her free time or doing carefree travel, they angrily demand that she stop those activities and pop out a kid asap. They shout that the woman's life is meaningless if she doesn't have kids, even though they themselves were just weeping an hour ago about how much they miss the freedom of their single years. Even if the childfree woman does end up having kids, the sour-grapes women will be happy momentarily (validation!) but will then switch to the next target to envy / convert.
When you think about your mom's behavior, does it ring true that she might be fighting off her own feelings of inner conflict and regret? If so, perhaps you can mentally reframe her unsupportiveness as her defense mechanism. Think of her as someone frantically trying to stay above water on a lake of deep regret. Her flailing is sometimes dragging you under the surface, but it's only because she's struggling so hard to keep her own head afloat.
posted by vienna at 5:26 AM on January 29 [16 favorites]
Many people are not able to face that deep regret head-on. They actively suppress anything that triggers the regret. They find it too disturbing to hear about their daughter living the life they wish they had lived. They evangelize how their life choice was actually for the best, and everyone else needs to join their way of life.
An analogy is how people react when a woman is childfree and enjoys her disposable income and free time. The happy parents shrug and say "good for her". But the mothers who struggle daily with barely-suppressed regret will sometimes explode in judgement. Every time they see the childfree woman enjoying her free time or doing carefree travel, they angrily demand that she stop those activities and pop out a kid asap. They shout that the woman's life is meaningless if she doesn't have kids, even though they themselves were just weeping an hour ago about how much they miss the freedom of their single years. Even if the childfree woman does end up having kids, the sour-grapes women will be happy momentarily (validation!) but will then switch to the next target to envy / convert.
When you think about your mom's behavior, does it ring true that she might be fighting off her own feelings of inner conflict and regret? If so, perhaps you can mentally reframe her unsupportiveness as her defense mechanism. Think of her as someone frantically trying to stay above water on a lake of deep regret. Her flailing is sometimes dragging you under the surface, but it's only because she's struggling so hard to keep her own head afloat.
posted by vienna at 5:26 AM on January 29 [16 favorites]
Every family has at least one member who does not fit the script. I am reminded that my grandmother's brother was gay and no one ever mentioned it, even though when the family went on beach vacatios he stayed elsewhere and picked up sailors. He was a highly respectable person of great dignity.
I was the one who didn't fit in my family, especially in my youth (very wild, alcoholic, failing at everything), and even after I got it together, they still treated me as if I was not doing things right. I loved my mom, sister, and brother and decided I still wanted them in my life. I did not go "gray rock," I just cheerfully made it clear I was now the way I was, and though they never did get over the ground-level belief that I was somehow delinquent, it didn't matter to me. I embraced my difference and my family and thought it was pretty funny that they didn't change.
My mother never expected me to get married or have a child, and so when I announced first one, then the other, she was gosmacked. That was funny too.
I guess what I'm saying is if you manage your expectations of them, even though they aren't managing their expectations of you, you'll be happier.
posted by Peach at 6:44 AM on January 29 [11 favorites]
I was the one who didn't fit in my family, especially in my youth (very wild, alcoholic, failing at everything), and even after I got it together, they still treated me as if I was not doing things right. I loved my mom, sister, and brother and decided I still wanted them in my life. I did not go "gray rock," I just cheerfully made it clear I was now the way I was, and though they never did get over the ground-level belief that I was somehow delinquent, it didn't matter to me. I embraced my difference and my family and thought it was pretty funny that they didn't change.
My mother never expected me to get married or have a child, and so when I announced first one, then the other, she was gosmacked. That was funny too.
I guess what I'm saying is if you manage your expectations of them, even though they aren't managing their expectations of you, you'll be happier.
posted by Peach at 6:44 AM on January 29 [11 favorites]
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if the rest of the people in your life (spouse, brother) were more supportive of you then your parents' antiquated clucking would not register so hard. But I don't see anywhere in here where your husband and brother do anything but live their own lives as they please and bask in the adoration of your parents. Your parents have the excuse of being old and living in another, different culture. What's your spouse's excuse for letting you twist in the wind? Yes I realize you also blame that on your parents (for making you too something to stand up for yourself) but that's actually not your parents' fault: it's your spouse's.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:01 AM on January 29 [35 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:01 AM on January 29 [35 favorites]
All my childhood, my SAHM mother (and my father, to a lesser extent) spoke derisively of working mothers, with a host of contradictory opinions that fit their narrative. Women do the soft useless jobs men don’t want. Women selfishly take away jobs from men who need them to support families. Women have hobbies that pay for “pocket money” which they self-aggrandize about. The most valuable role of a woman is in raising good kids.
Hmm, sounds extra sucky! Do you want this childhood for your daughter? Bear in mind that unless she's going to ship out and move in with her grandparents when she turns 18, your daughter will need to be equipped to navigate in the new country. It would be helpful to her not to have spent a decade plus being steadily undermined. And clearly speaking derisively of working mothers for someone's entire childhood does undermine that person and does have deleterious effects. We know that because:
Over time, I stopped trying to achieve a balance of childcare duties between my husband and myself, partly because I’ve given up, but also partly because I want to prove to myself that I’m an involved mom, and because I have taken it for granted he needs rest since he has more of a “real job”.
They are otherwise good parents.
Mmmmmmmhmmmmmmmm. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? They've wrecked your experience of motherhood. And they seem on track to wreck your daughter's if they're not stopped.
I don't think you need to stop visiting or turn this into a giant battle, though. I love Peach's way of handling it. Try flipping the whole thing emotionally and seeing it as funny--and be sure your daughter gets that message and not the message you got growing up.
Meanwhile! When not visiting parents work on this inequity you've been putting up with in your marriage. Your parents have caused you sufficient pain; you don't need your husband to continue the saga. He needs to be your ally against this bullshit. Can you lay out for him the problem, explain how painful it has been for you this whole time, and get him to help you? If I'm reading right, you are the main breadwinner and you do most of the childcare? Is he aware how much his coasting is costing you and will eventually cost his daughter?
posted by Don Pepino at 7:07 AM on January 29 [22 favorites]
Hmm, sounds extra sucky! Do you want this childhood for your daughter? Bear in mind that unless she's going to ship out and move in with her grandparents when she turns 18, your daughter will need to be equipped to navigate in the new country. It would be helpful to her not to have spent a decade plus being steadily undermined. And clearly speaking derisively of working mothers for someone's entire childhood does undermine that person and does have deleterious effects. We know that because:
Over time, I stopped trying to achieve a balance of childcare duties between my husband and myself, partly because I’ve given up, but also partly because I want to prove to myself that I’m an involved mom, and because I have taken it for granted he needs rest since he has more of a “real job”.
They are otherwise good parents.
Mmmmmmmhmmmmmmmm. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? They've wrecked your experience of motherhood. And they seem on track to wreck your daughter's if they're not stopped.
I don't think you need to stop visiting or turn this into a giant battle, though. I love Peach's way of handling it. Try flipping the whole thing emotionally and seeing it as funny--and be sure your daughter gets that message and not the message you got growing up.
Meanwhile! When not visiting parents work on this inequity you've been putting up with in your marriage. Your parents have caused you sufficient pain; you don't need your husband to continue the saga. He needs to be your ally against this bullshit. Can you lay out for him the problem, explain how painful it has been for you this whole time, and get him to help you? If I'm reading right, you are the main breadwinner and you do most of the childcare? Is he aware how much his coasting is costing you and will eventually cost his daughter?
posted by Don Pepino at 7:07 AM on January 29 [22 favorites]
I can't give culturally competent advice around dealing with your parents' attitudes as informed by the culture in which they live and in which they grew up, or sibling comparison. I also won't pile on about marriage equity, although I agree with previous commenters. But I do know a bit about parenting while dealing with unsupportive, very anxious, devaluing parents of my own! Three things have been most helpful for me:
1 - Information diet, information diet, information diet. You get to decide how much of your life and details about it they get to have. Don't provide them with ammunition unecessarily. I did go through a period of being very low-contact with my parents, which has long since passed, because I decided I wanted to maintain some kind of relationship with them. I love my parents, and they did the best they could, and that best was problematic, but again, I love them. The key was accepting that it would be a very superficial relationship for the most part, learning to not take the bait or respond emotionally to judgment, getting good at verbal judo. Conversations aren't a thing you are going to win. You aren't going to change anyone's mind, and that isn't the goal anyway, it's to keep things civil and tolerable enough so that you can get whatever it is you do want out of the relationship and interaction (feelings of familiarity? Keeping kiddo connected to extended family and culture? You get to decide). So what that looks like in practice is that when we talk, I have learned to identify the safe topics, and I keep the conversation focused on those. Cute thing kid did, asking about my parents' pets, friends, etc, the weather...you eventually get a sense for what isn't going to go down an unpleasant rabbit hole. When they try to poke at something that will inevitably become sensitive, I redirect cheerfully like a competent politician talking to a reporter. And if they REALLY persist, don't engage, find a reason to politely get off the phone. When visiting, come prepared with lots of ways to change the topic or need to leave the room. Having a kid around is actually really helpful for this since they're walking distraction factories!
2 - I lowered my expectations for the relationship. A lot. This has honestly been heartbreaking at different points because some small part of you always hopes that somewhere in there will be the relationship that you always dreamed of, or at least some aspect of it. But they have shown you clearly who they are over many years, they do not intend to change, and people generally don't change. It's not worth it to try and change them, or to hope that they will. That only costs you. In my case, that meant reconciling myself to things like my parents never caring or expressing pride for things like my graduate degree, my job, professional projects, or even personal pursuits that meant a lot to me. It meant accepting that I couldn't expect meaningful family support from them as grandparents or depend on them in emergencies. It meant accepting that I couldn't really share the parts of my life that were most important, happy or sad, with them. That's really really really tough and honestly therapy has been important over the years and I still get sour grapes sometimes when I see other parents who have really involved parents of their own. But that brings me to the third part, which is not optional:
3. You have to build your own non-familial support network. Other working moms can be AMAZING and validating and encouraging. This isn't easy and it takes ages but it is so worth it to build up your own cheering and support squad of people who see you for you and value the way you are choosing to live your life and are on a similar wavelength. My own is a mix of a couple dear friends I've had since college, and a mix of my (virtual) moms' Discord and in-person postpartum support group. Having a group text you can fire off the happy and sad things to and get helpful/sympathetic responses from is amazing. When we had a family medical emergency last year while I was a 10-hour flight away on a business trip, a woman from my mom group responded to my SOS to the group immediately and had her husband pick up my husband and baby and drive them both to the ER and watched our baby while my husband got sorted out. I would do the same for any of them in a heartbeat. We don't necessarily have overlapping hobbies, but we know each other and trust each other to be emergency contacts on daycare forms and chat at least once every other day. You have to be pretty aggressive to pull these social connections together and willing to be the initiator a lot, but I feel like especially when you can't depend on family, it's worth the time and effort. And I find that other people who don't have supportive family locally are pretty open to it, if for no other reason than they're usually not as busy on the weekends with local extended family.
You are doing great as a mother, professional, wife, and daughter. I'm so sorry you're not being told that often enough. You deserve to be valued, seen, encouraged, and well-rested.
posted by bowtiesarecool at 7:38 AM on January 29 [22 favorites]
1 - Information diet, information diet, information diet. You get to decide how much of your life and details about it they get to have. Don't provide them with ammunition unecessarily. I did go through a period of being very low-contact with my parents, which has long since passed, because I decided I wanted to maintain some kind of relationship with them. I love my parents, and they did the best they could, and that best was problematic, but again, I love them. The key was accepting that it would be a very superficial relationship for the most part, learning to not take the bait or respond emotionally to judgment, getting good at verbal judo. Conversations aren't a thing you are going to win. You aren't going to change anyone's mind, and that isn't the goal anyway, it's to keep things civil and tolerable enough so that you can get whatever it is you do want out of the relationship and interaction (feelings of familiarity? Keeping kiddo connected to extended family and culture? You get to decide). So what that looks like in practice is that when we talk, I have learned to identify the safe topics, and I keep the conversation focused on those. Cute thing kid did, asking about my parents' pets, friends, etc, the weather...you eventually get a sense for what isn't going to go down an unpleasant rabbit hole. When they try to poke at something that will inevitably become sensitive, I redirect cheerfully like a competent politician talking to a reporter. And if they REALLY persist, don't engage, find a reason to politely get off the phone. When visiting, come prepared with lots of ways to change the topic or need to leave the room. Having a kid around is actually really helpful for this since they're walking distraction factories!
2 - I lowered my expectations for the relationship. A lot. This has honestly been heartbreaking at different points because some small part of you always hopes that somewhere in there will be the relationship that you always dreamed of, or at least some aspect of it. But they have shown you clearly who they are over many years, they do not intend to change, and people generally don't change. It's not worth it to try and change them, or to hope that they will. That only costs you. In my case, that meant reconciling myself to things like my parents never caring or expressing pride for things like my graduate degree, my job, professional projects, or even personal pursuits that meant a lot to me. It meant accepting that I couldn't expect meaningful family support from them as grandparents or depend on them in emergencies. It meant accepting that I couldn't really share the parts of my life that were most important, happy or sad, with them. That's really really really tough and honestly therapy has been important over the years and I still get sour grapes sometimes when I see other parents who have really involved parents of their own. But that brings me to the third part, which is not optional:
3. You have to build your own non-familial support network. Other working moms can be AMAZING and validating and encouraging. This isn't easy and it takes ages but it is so worth it to build up your own cheering and support squad of people who see you for you and value the way you are choosing to live your life and are on a similar wavelength. My own is a mix of a couple dear friends I've had since college, and a mix of my (virtual) moms' Discord and in-person postpartum support group. Having a group text you can fire off the happy and sad things to and get helpful/sympathetic responses from is amazing. When we had a family medical emergency last year while I was a 10-hour flight away on a business trip, a woman from my mom group responded to my SOS to the group immediately and had her husband pick up my husband and baby and drive them both to the ER and watched our baby while my husband got sorted out. I would do the same for any of them in a heartbeat. We don't necessarily have overlapping hobbies, but we know each other and trust each other to be emergency contacts on daycare forms and chat at least once every other day. You have to be pretty aggressive to pull these social connections together and willing to be the initiator a lot, but I feel like especially when you can't depend on family, it's worth the time and effort. And I find that other people who don't have supportive family locally are pretty open to it, if for no other reason than they're usually not as busy on the weekends with local extended family.
You are doing great as a mother, professional, wife, and daughter. I'm so sorry you're not being told that often enough. You deserve to be valued, seen, encouraged, and well-rested.
posted by bowtiesarecool at 7:38 AM on January 29 [22 favorites]
I am going to guess you’ll never get their approval, in the way that you want anyway. If you stay at home now, they’ll talk about how terrible it was for older kid that you didn’t. Right? There are good reasons to stay home if it makes sense for a family. Appeasing parents who live in a different country and won’t even visit their exhausted daughter and amazing grandkid is not a good reason to be a stay at home mom.
Chasing our parents’ approval never gets us what we want.
Is this the kind of thing where you can appeal to some notion of things being different in your country now? “Wish I could stay at home like in X Country! Things are so different in Z Country!” This could be said cheerfully, as if they aren’t crushing your spirit. It would be a very hard shift to make though.
Finally, though: when you visit and they won’t get childcare, you said it’s because they don’t trust paid childcare. Are you sure it’s not because they are actively trying to undermine and exhaust you? I really urge you to consider the “great parents otherwise” take on these folks.
As parents, is it really our job to support our adult kids only when they do what we want, even if it causes active harm to them? If nothing else, I want you to think hard about how to break this cycle with your own child and be her cheerleader even and especially when she makes her own choices.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:45 AM on January 29 [3 favorites]
Chasing our parents’ approval never gets us what we want.
Is this the kind of thing where you can appeal to some notion of things being different in your country now? “Wish I could stay at home like in X Country! Things are so different in Z Country!” This could be said cheerfully, as if they aren’t crushing your spirit. It would be a very hard shift to make though.
Finally, though: when you visit and they won’t get childcare, you said it’s because they don’t trust paid childcare. Are you sure it’s not because they are actively trying to undermine and exhaust you? I really urge you to consider the “great parents otherwise” take on these folks.
As parents, is it really our job to support our adult kids only when they do what we want, even if it causes active harm to them? If nothing else, I want you to think hard about how to break this cycle with your own child and be her cheerleader even and especially when she makes her own choices.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:45 AM on January 29 [3 favorites]
This to me is one of those cruel betrayals of adult children. You really hope that your parents will change when it is time for you to need them to and yet.... they don't.
I think your path forward here is to accept that they are not going to change. Period. As frustrating as that seems it is probably your only way to peace with the situation that also allows you to keep them in your life and that of your kid.
Once you have accepted that they are not going to change, the next step is to set reasonable boundaries for when they express an opinion:
1) I know how you feel about my working and it is not a topic for discussion. [Change subject]. Repeat as necessary.
2) Visit them on your schedule and when it works for you. You don't owe them visits at all.
3) Find new sources of support. As bowtiesarecool sagely said, other moms are a great source of support in this area. Bonus: you get to pick who you want for this role, not who you have been randomly assigned to by birth.
FWIW - I am a working mom and I think you are setting a fantastic example for your child that women can be both moms and workers and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Hopefully you can some day reach a point where their views are a point of laughter in the family (silly Grandma thinks women should belong in the house!) and do not shape how you live your life. Because in the end it is all YOURS. Not theirs. Good luck fellow traveler.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 8:45 AM on January 29 [8 favorites]
I think your path forward here is to accept that they are not going to change. Period. As frustrating as that seems it is probably your only way to peace with the situation that also allows you to keep them in your life and that of your kid.
Once you have accepted that they are not going to change, the next step is to set reasonable boundaries for when they express an opinion:
1) I know how you feel about my working and it is not a topic for discussion. [Change subject]. Repeat as necessary.
2) Visit them on your schedule and when it works for you. You don't owe them visits at all.
3) Find new sources of support. As bowtiesarecool sagely said, other moms are a great source of support in this area. Bonus: you get to pick who you want for this role, not who you have been randomly assigned to by birth.
FWIW - I am a working mom and I think you are setting a fantastic example for your child that women can be both moms and workers and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Hopefully you can some day reach a point where their views are a point of laughter in the family (silly Grandma thinks women should belong in the house!) and do not shape how you live your life. Because in the end it is all YOURS. Not theirs. Good luck fellow traveler.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 8:45 AM on January 29 [8 favorites]
I think one of the painful things about this topic is that there's a kernel of truth hidden in your parents' beliefs... because of society. At least in the US, we have a society that is set up to make parenting (especially by mothers) harder and more isolating than it needs to be. If we had paid parental leave, affordable childcare, parent-friendly workplace policies, a collective understanding that we all owe the next generation care and safety because that's good for everyone... things would be different. So there's this...what's the opposite of cognitive dissonance? A really compelling wrong explanation? When you're feeling the stress and isolation of being a working mom and someone says, "You'd be so much happier if you quit your job," there has to be some exhausted part of you that goes, "Sounds plausible."
I think this lends itself to a couple directions you could take with your parents:
When they say something about how much better it is to be a SAHM, you say, "That IS one way to cope with society's indifference toward parents--if there aren't resources like affordable childcare, good parental leave policies, etc., having one parent stay home can make life easier in some ways. I think it's really awful that we have to make these calculations as individual families." Like, if they're going to opine at you, you can opine right back.
Don't engage with them directly, but remind yourself that their shitty comments are, at least on some level, them trying to deal with big, messy, painful realities. I do something similar when loved ones parrot Fox News--like, yes, it's nonsense, but for them it's really comforting nonsense. Try to notice what's going on when they say these things--are they reflecting loneliness/wanting you to visit more? are they stressed out/in a bad mood? are they picking up on your stress and trying to fix it? It might give you some insights about how to manage your time with them to maximize other types of interactions and give yourself a plan for these snarky comments.
posted by theotherdurassister at 9:36 AM on January 29 [2 favorites]
I think this lends itself to a couple directions you could take with your parents:
When they say something about how much better it is to be a SAHM, you say, "That IS one way to cope with society's indifference toward parents--if there aren't resources like affordable childcare, good parental leave policies, etc., having one parent stay home can make life easier in some ways. I think it's really awful that we have to make these calculations as individual families." Like, if they're going to opine at you, you can opine right back.
Don't engage with them directly, but remind yourself that their shitty comments are, at least on some level, them trying to deal with big, messy, painful realities. I do something similar when loved ones parrot Fox News--like, yes, it's nonsense, but for them it's really comforting nonsense. Try to notice what's going on when they say these things--are they reflecting loneliness/wanting you to visit more? are they stressed out/in a bad mood? are they picking up on your stress and trying to fix it? It might give you some insights about how to manage your time with them to maximize other types of interactions and give yourself a plan for these snarky comments.
posted by theotherdurassister at 9:36 AM on January 29 [2 favorites]
Grandparents in US culture step up when their grandchildren need care while a parent works. How are your parents so busy that they won't care for their grandchild when you visit? Your SAHM grandma should be delighted to spend quality time with a grandchild she sees so rarely! Speaking here as a grandmother of 6.
Why not pay for your parents to come visit you instead?
posted by mareli at 9:52 AM on January 29
Why not pay for your parents to come visit you instead?
posted by mareli at 9:52 AM on January 29
Your parents are stuck believing that the economy of their past is still current. Lots of people struggle to adjust to the changing world and can't let go of older ideas like, that getting a university degree guarantees a secure career, or that children who try can always do better than their parents, or that any half decent husband can afford to support a large family with a stay at home mother and still provide a good standard of living, or that government pensions will allow people to retire comfortably - there are a whole host of things like that that just aren't the reality anymore, if they ever were.
But your parents are unable to move on to a more realistic assessment of the world as it is now. IF the world was as they think it is - if it were true that you could be a stay-at-home-mother and you and your family would still thrive economically, their wishes for you would not be unfair or unkind, nor would they be devaluing you. You say they love you and are supportive other than regarding your job. It's their struggle with reality. It's kind of like when someone who grew up speaking one language and learned to operate in another ends up becoming less adaptable and reverts back to their original language. It's too much of a strain for them to keep talking, let alone thinking in their second language. Your parents know what things are like, but their default assumptions from when they were young just recur and recur and recur.
With that perspective, you may be able to pity them and feel grief for their inflexibility. The mention it so often it appears they can't let go of it. When someone goes on about the past over and over trying to hang onto the way things were there is often anxiety involved. They can't face the way things are now. It's too frightening.
Supposing you were to think about your parents insistence that you don't need to work the way you would if they kept talking about how the entire extended family should all move back to their old childhood home- discussing plans to get the water reconnected and how great it will be to have so much space and places outside for the grandkids to run free playing under the trees... only you know that the building is unsafe, and unfixable, the roof half collapsed and the long ago lovely rural neighbourhood that was a playground for kids when they were growing up is decades gone. It's a dangerous, crowded suburb now with no trees. But every time you talk to them, the same delusional aspirational nostalgia comes up and they keep talking about it... "Oh, we need to save these curtains to put up in the old house. Next year when you visit we'll all go back there. Your father will do the painting himself."
Rather than feeling hurt, can you switch your feelings to pitying them? When people are stuck in an alternative reality, you first gently try to communicate with them that they are misunderstanding the situation. But once you've tried that, and if they still cling to their beliefs you let it go. Oh, you protect them if they start doing things that will cause them harm, like putting their regular home up for sale so they can move back to the roofless shell of their childhood home, but so long as their fantasies are just escapist aspirations you don't correct them and don't disagree and don't take it as hurtful. Wouldn't it be nice if you were so absolutely wealthy that you would never, ever have to work again and could become a lady of leisure spending your time taking your daughter on trips across the world? Wouldn't it be nice? Yeah, it would be wonderful. You could take your daughter out of school too and take her on mother daughter shopping trips and buy her the most gorgeous clothes! And you could stay home and pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into decorating! - Yep, sure would be lovely.
They have a nice fantasy about what your life could be. But they're not the wise elders and authorities they used to be before you grew up. They are only wise about things from that time.
posted by Jane the Brown at 1:24 PM on January 29 [7 favorites]
But your parents are unable to move on to a more realistic assessment of the world as it is now. IF the world was as they think it is - if it were true that you could be a stay-at-home-mother and you and your family would still thrive economically, their wishes for you would not be unfair or unkind, nor would they be devaluing you. You say they love you and are supportive other than regarding your job. It's their struggle with reality. It's kind of like when someone who grew up speaking one language and learned to operate in another ends up becoming less adaptable and reverts back to their original language. It's too much of a strain for them to keep talking, let alone thinking in their second language. Your parents know what things are like, but their default assumptions from when they were young just recur and recur and recur.
With that perspective, you may be able to pity them and feel grief for their inflexibility. The mention it so often it appears they can't let go of it. When someone goes on about the past over and over trying to hang onto the way things were there is often anxiety involved. They can't face the way things are now. It's too frightening.
Supposing you were to think about your parents insistence that you don't need to work the way you would if they kept talking about how the entire extended family should all move back to their old childhood home- discussing plans to get the water reconnected and how great it will be to have so much space and places outside for the grandkids to run free playing under the trees... only you know that the building is unsafe, and unfixable, the roof half collapsed and the long ago lovely rural neighbourhood that was a playground for kids when they were growing up is decades gone. It's a dangerous, crowded suburb now with no trees. But every time you talk to them, the same delusional aspirational nostalgia comes up and they keep talking about it... "Oh, we need to save these curtains to put up in the old house. Next year when you visit we'll all go back there. Your father will do the painting himself."
Rather than feeling hurt, can you switch your feelings to pitying them? When people are stuck in an alternative reality, you first gently try to communicate with them that they are misunderstanding the situation. But once you've tried that, and if they still cling to their beliefs you let it go. Oh, you protect them if they start doing things that will cause them harm, like putting their regular home up for sale so they can move back to the roofless shell of their childhood home, but so long as their fantasies are just escapist aspirations you don't correct them and don't disagree and don't take it as hurtful. Wouldn't it be nice if you were so absolutely wealthy that you would never, ever have to work again and could become a lady of leisure spending your time taking your daughter on trips across the world? Wouldn't it be nice? Yeah, it would be wonderful. You could take your daughter out of school too and take her on mother daughter shopping trips and buy her the most gorgeous clothes! And you could stay home and pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into decorating! - Yep, sure would be lovely.
They have a nice fantasy about what your life could be. But they're not the wise elders and authorities they used to be before you grew up. They are only wise about things from that time.
posted by Jane the Brown at 1:24 PM on January 29 [7 favorites]
I'm going to copy/pasta what taffeta darling! said because it's 100% spot on:
1) I know how you feel about my working, and it is not a topic for discussion. [Change subject]. Repeat as necessary. Or politely, always politely and pseudo regretfully, just tell them we are not talking about this, I will have to say goodbye. And. Hang. Up. Don't answer the phone if it rings again that day. Next conversation, if they bring up how disrespectful you are to hang up on them, mention that you feel they are disrespecting your life choice which you cannot and will not listen to anymore, and we are not talking about this again. Politely, do we need to say goodbye now, or can we change the subject?
2) Visit them on your schedule and when it works for you. You don't owe them visits at all. I hear that you want to visit them and will continue to take your daughter to have time with her grandparents. But you can do it your way, not theirs. Noton their schedule or letting them call the shots on how it goes. This is my schedule. This is how we're going to do it. Rinse, repeat. Sorry, I've explained it, I'd love to come, but either it goes like this or not at all. Sorry, let's change the subject, or I guess we need to say goodbye then. Also tell them that you're hiring a sitter, it is non-negotiable, and you're done discussing it and hearing negative comments about it. Either they babysit, or you hire a sitter to come into their home, or one that is a highly recommended agency, or you cannot come at that time. They may have second thoughts about a sitter if you don't come for a visit one time. Make your ticket changeable and tell them when you get there--I need to work, I need peace to do it. If I can't work and am too stressed, I have to go home early.
You can also offer to fly them to see you and put them up in a nice hotel. If they really want to see you and see their granddaughter, they'll do that. Otherwise, it's just more evidence of how they pull your strings. For the love of all that's holy, don't let them stay with you!
3) Find new sources of support. This. This. This. Businesswomen's groups, social groups, online support, pat yourself on the back, buy yourself something special or do a spa day. Self-validation is the best kind. I wouldn't waste any time expecting anything from your husband and even less from your golden brother. Save your energy to teach your daughter strength, pride, and the worth of her own capability. Use your energy be the role model she needs. Show her that she can stand strong against the expectations of her grandparents and the misogyny of her father, uncle, and other men around her. If you cave now, you're setting her up to be the second-class kind of woman/wife your family expects you to be.
posted by BlueHorse at 3:43 PM on January 29 [2 favorites]
1) I know how you feel about my working, and it is not a topic for discussion. [Change subject]. Repeat as necessary. Or politely, always politely and pseudo regretfully, just tell them we are not talking about this, I will have to say goodbye. And. Hang. Up. Don't answer the phone if it rings again that day. Next conversation, if they bring up how disrespectful you are to hang up on them, mention that you feel they are disrespecting your life choice which you cannot and will not listen to anymore, and we are not talking about this again. Politely, do we need to say goodbye now, or can we change the subject?
2) Visit them on your schedule and when it works for you. You don't owe them visits at all. I hear that you want to visit them and will continue to take your daughter to have time with her grandparents. But you can do it your way, not theirs. Noton their schedule or letting them call the shots on how it goes. This is my schedule. This is how we're going to do it. Rinse, repeat. Sorry, I've explained it, I'd love to come, but either it goes like this or not at all. Sorry, let's change the subject, or I guess we need to say goodbye then. Also tell them that you're hiring a sitter, it is non-negotiable, and you're done discussing it and hearing negative comments about it. Either they babysit, or you hire a sitter to come into their home, or one that is a highly recommended agency, or you cannot come at that time. They may have second thoughts about a sitter if you don't come for a visit one time. Make your ticket changeable and tell them when you get there--I need to work, I need peace to do it. If I can't work and am too stressed, I have to go home early.
You can also offer to fly them to see you and put them up in a nice hotel. If they really want to see you and see their granddaughter, they'll do that. Otherwise, it's just more evidence of how they pull your strings. For the love of all that's holy, don't let them stay with you!
3) Find new sources of support. This. This. This. Businesswomen's groups, social groups, online support, pat yourself on the back, buy yourself something special or do a spa day. Self-validation is the best kind. I wouldn't waste any time expecting anything from your husband and even less from your golden brother. Save your energy to teach your daughter strength, pride, and the worth of her own capability. Use your energy be the role model she needs. Show her that she can stand strong against the expectations of her grandparents and the misogyny of her father, uncle, and other men around her. If you cave now, you're setting her up to be the second-class kind of woman/wife your family expects you to be.
posted by BlueHorse at 3:43 PM on January 29 [2 favorites]
I'd be so tempted in your shoes to say "I earn more than him" every time anything is mentioned that implies that you could/should give up work. But I am a bad person.
posted by plonkee at 3:56 PM on January 29 [22 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 3:56 PM on January 29 [22 favorites]
As a working mother, part of my push against SAHM was, "My responsibilities are not to the current child, but to the future adult that this child will become."
And that future adult will have a much better relationship with me if I have been able to exercise my professional skills and have a satisfying and remunerative long-term career.
I would be quite blunt with your parents, "I get it - you don't particularly like small children; you raised yours and you are not interested in helping me raise mine. But just because you don't want to look after my children, doesn't meant that I am not entitled to also spend time away from them."
I was asked at one job interview, "How will you cope with work when you have children?"
My response, "If you want to solve unemployment, don't hire single men, hire married women with children. When you hire a single man, you put one person to work. Hire me, and there is whole village out the back being put to work - the nanny, the cleaner, all the local takeaway food shops."
After my second child was born, I hired a full-time nanny and that became a housekeeper after my youngest turned 3. Once I worked for myself, I always employed a secretary as well as a personal assistant.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:46 PM on January 29 [5 favorites]
And that future adult will have a much better relationship with me if I have been able to exercise my professional skills and have a satisfying and remunerative long-term career.
I would be quite blunt with your parents, "I get it - you don't particularly like small children; you raised yours and you are not interested in helping me raise mine. But just because you don't want to look after my children, doesn't meant that I am not entitled to also spend time away from them."
I was asked at one job interview, "How will you cope with work when you have children?"
My response, "If you want to solve unemployment, don't hire single men, hire married women with children. When you hire a single man, you put one person to work. Hire me, and there is whole village out the back being put to work - the nanny, the cleaner, all the local takeaway food shops."
After my second child was born, I hired a full-time nanny and that became a housekeeper after my youngest turned 3. Once I worked for myself, I always employed a secretary as well as a personal assistant.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:46 PM on January 29 [5 favorites]
I'm a SAHM, and I "work."
I've never been keen on the phrasing of "working mom" vs "stay at home."
The average American SAHM is on duty 98 hours a week, is on call all other hours, and has no sick or vacation time.
I'm also a conscientious objector in the Mommy Wars, because each family does what's best for them.
I think you should aim for the same conscientious objector status.
Your beef is not with me, and compare-and-contrast takes don't help your mental health (comparison is the thief of joy) and won't settle the situation with your parents (they'll just find more bones to pick).
Instead, keep it simple.
"There are lots of ways to do things, this is what works for us. I'm not interested in being compared to other people."
Then a subject change.
posted by champers at 2:21 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
I've never been keen on the phrasing of "working mom" vs "stay at home."
The average American SAHM is on duty 98 hours a week, is on call all other hours, and has no sick or vacation time.
I'm also a conscientious objector in the Mommy Wars, because each family does what's best for them.
I think you should aim for the same conscientious objector status.
Your beef is not with me, and compare-and-contrast takes don't help your mental health (comparison is the thief of joy) and won't settle the situation with your parents (they'll just find more bones to pick).
Instead, keep it simple.
"There are lots of ways to do things, this is what works for us. I'm not interested in being compared to other people."
Then a subject change.
posted by champers at 2:21 AM on January 30 [3 favorites]
I think Jane the Brown is right; they don't get what your situation is now. They will probably never really understand why it's important to have this job-- both important for you and also for your family. My father used to bug me about things like this, even though he lived in the same country as me and was also in a profession where I would have thought he would be able to understand the current social and economic realities. Everything out of his mouth seemed to be based on some kind of projection and/or wildly inaccurate guesses about my situation. I did a lot better with him once I gave up trying to explain things at all and just tried to ask him questions and otherwise turn the conversation around and get him to talk about himself.
posted by BibiRose at 7:35 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
posted by BibiRose at 7:35 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
You mentioned your parents are in another country. Depending on the country, this situation might be affected by misconceptions about how rich people are in the US.
People from developing countries said to me, "The average salary in my country is $5,000 USD per year. Even a fast-food worker in the US can earn $16,000 per year, which is the salary of a rich person in my country. Everyone in the US must live like kings, including fast food workers. If I were in the US, I'd work for a few years flipping burgers and then retire wealthy." They are not aware of the typical costs of rent, food, and gas in the US.
It might help to explain to your parents that if you gave up your job, your family would have to make financial sacrifices. Be concrete about the repercussions, e.g. downsize to a smaller home, go on fewer vacations, go on fewer trips to see your parents. It's possible that they think everyone in the US is wealthy anyway, so why bother working so hard at an unnecessary job?
posted by vienna at 12:57 PM on January 30 [1 favorite]
People from developing countries said to me, "The average salary in my country is $5,000 USD per year. Even a fast-food worker in the US can earn $16,000 per year, which is the salary of a rich person in my country. Everyone in the US must live like kings, including fast food workers. If I were in the US, I'd work for a few years flipping burgers and then retire wealthy." They are not aware of the typical costs of rent, food, and gas in the US.
It might help to explain to your parents that if you gave up your job, your family would have to make financial sacrifices. Be concrete about the repercussions, e.g. downsize to a smaller home, go on fewer vacations, go on fewer trips to see your parents. It's possible that they think everyone in the US is wealthy anyway, so why bother working so hard at an unnecessary job?
posted by vienna at 12:57 PM on January 30 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking of you and wishing you well.
posted by brainwane at 11:25 AM on February 5 [1 favorite]
posted by brainwane at 11:25 AM on February 5 [1 favorite]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by meijusa at 1:08 AM on January 29 [14 favorites]