how do I avoid big fails with contractors?
December 7, 2023 11:56 AM Subscribe
I just had an incident with a tree trimmer that really rattled me. What should I have done to vet them in advance?
So, you are not my lawyer and there seemingly is no terrible outcome from yesterday's accident. My question is what specifically should I do to ensure a contractor on my property that is injured doesn't have recourse to sue me. What's the due diligence process I should follow?
What happened: we saw a tree trimmer crew over at a neighbor's house working industriously. I have an overhanging branch problem in that another neighbor's tree has several large branches poised above a small building we work inside daily. Potential branch damage if they come down.
The neighhbor with the tree crew recommended the trimmer crew highly, and since that neighbor is also a landscape management professional, we called and hired the trimmer crew to take down our branches.
Boss shows up, looks around, seems competent though my gut didn't give me a 100% net positive.
Two weeks later, he ropes up, raining pretty good, up the tree and boom, branch breaks, boss lands on the roof of our building, falls off, breaks a fence which probably broke his fall to the ground somewhat.
Everyone is totally rattled, the boss is shook up. Now we find out he has no medical insurance. We are assured by him that he is okay and no lasting harm.
If there's some legal trouble that occurs down the line, that's another post, not this one. What I'm wondering is how do I make sure the contractor I'm hiring doesn't have grounds to sue me due their own negligence or basic human error leading to an accident? What should I be doing to make sure they are properly covered in the event of a problem like the above? My neighbor's recommendation kind of lowered my cognitive boundaries and I just went along with this thinking it's all going to be fine.
So, you are not my lawyer and there seemingly is no terrible outcome from yesterday's accident. My question is what specifically should I do to ensure a contractor on my property that is injured doesn't have recourse to sue me. What's the due diligence process I should follow?
What happened: we saw a tree trimmer crew over at a neighbor's house working industriously. I have an overhanging branch problem in that another neighbor's tree has several large branches poised above a small building we work inside daily. Potential branch damage if they come down.
The neighhbor with the tree crew recommended the trimmer crew highly, and since that neighbor is also a landscape management professional, we called and hired the trimmer crew to take down our branches.
Boss shows up, looks around, seems competent though my gut didn't give me a 100% net positive.
Two weeks later, he ropes up, raining pretty good, up the tree and boom, branch breaks, boss lands on the roof of our building, falls off, breaks a fence which probably broke his fall to the ground somewhat.
Everyone is totally rattled, the boss is shook up. Now we find out he has no medical insurance. We are assured by him that he is okay and no lasting harm.
If there's some legal trouble that occurs down the line, that's another post, not this one. What I'm wondering is how do I make sure the contractor I'm hiring doesn't have grounds to sue me due their own negligence or basic human error leading to an accident? What should I be doing to make sure they are properly covered in the event of a problem like the above? My neighbor's recommendation kind of lowered my cognitive boundaries and I just went along with this thinking it's all going to be fine.
Where I live he'd have no recourse to sue, his work, his problem. Insurance doesn't come into that.
But it's pretty standard on professionally run sites to ask for proof of insurance before work starts, both public liability for damage to you, property or the public and whatever you call health insurance, to cover injury to workers. No insurance equals no work. It's much less common to ask for that on little jobs like this but you can ask.
posted by deadwax at 12:12 PM on December 7, 2023
But it's pretty standard on professionally run sites to ask for proof of insurance before work starts, both public liability for damage to you, property or the public and whatever you call health insurance, to cover injury to workers. No insurance equals no work. It's much less common to ask for that on little jobs like this but you can ask.
posted by deadwax at 12:12 PM on December 7, 2023
Best answer: We've just been going through some Tree Stuff, and I took a glance at the website of the company we're using. Things I see there:
-- "we're licensed, bonded, insured"
-- links to their Worker's Comp license certificate, their commercial auto insurance certificate, their general liability insurance
-- their contractor's license number
-- each staff member's level of licensure at the International Society of Arboriculture with accompanying license number (some are certified arborists, some are qualified risk assessors, one is a master arborist); also some have Tree Care Industry Association professional certification
-- additional certifications re: pest control
There's even more but I'll stop there. In short, make sure you're dealing with someone who exhibits the hallmarks of a professional operation. And I'll skip ahead and also say that we're in the midst of an Issue re: one of our trees and it has helped us immensely for legal & insurance reasons to be able to say "the tree was being cared for by these professionals who are completely legit."
posted by BlahLaLa at 12:57 PM on December 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
-- "we're licensed, bonded, insured"
-- links to their Worker's Comp license certificate, their commercial auto insurance certificate, their general liability insurance
-- their contractor's license number
-- each staff member's level of licensure at the International Society of Arboriculture with accompanying license number (some are certified arborists, some are qualified risk assessors, one is a master arborist); also some have Tree Care Industry Association professional certification
-- additional certifications re: pest control
There's even more but I'll stop there. In short, make sure you're dealing with someone who exhibits the hallmarks of a professional operation. And I'll skip ahead and also say that we're in the midst of an Issue re: one of our trees and it has helped us immensely for legal & insurance reasons to be able to say "the tree was being cared for by these professionals who are completely legit."
posted by BlahLaLa at 12:57 PM on December 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
Seconding licensed/bonded. Also: A properly operating tree crew has spotters and extra crew on the ground (e.g. people holding safety lines) to assist the person up in the branches.
If you don't see that happening, shut the job down immediatedly.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:57 PM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you don't see that happening, shut the job down immediatedly.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:57 PM on December 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
In dealing with contractors I always get estimates or have a pre-work discussion to go over the job, ask/answer questions, get a feel for how this person works. Do they mansplain me? Next. Do they seem like they are going to rush, rush, rush? Next. Do they try to upsell me on work? Next. Do they not provide enough details on what they are going to do? Next.
It's really important to have a sit down with the people who are going to do work for you.
posted by brookeb at 2:12 PM on December 7, 2023
It's really important to have a sit down with the people who are going to do work for you.
posted by brookeb at 2:12 PM on December 7, 2023
Best answer: This is exactly what an umbrella liability policy is for. Typically you get it as an add-on to your car insurance, and it covers specifically liability above the policy limits on your various insurances. Normally people don’t bother unless they have a positive net worth, since lawyers know they can’t get blood from a stone. It’s surprisingly affordable, I think we pay $200/yr for a $1 million policy.
posted by wnissen at 3:52 PM on December 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by wnissen at 3:52 PM on December 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
As per wnissen, umbrella insurance is your key to sleeping at night here.
I mean, yes, make sure they are licensed and bonded and such, but umbrella insurance is the net that catches anything that slips through.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:14 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I mean, yes, make sure they are licensed and bonded and such, but umbrella insurance is the net that catches anything that slips through.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:14 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I have an umbrella policy so there's that as protection. Our fallen contractor seems remorseful at what happened and wants to bring an alternative contractor to finish the job. His fall left a dent in the metal roof, a very slight one, so I may forego his offer to repair it.
If I use the alternative contractor, I'll be sure to check his bona fides this time before anything happens on my property. Thanks for the tips.
posted by diode at 6:50 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
If I use the alternative contractor, I'll be sure to check his bona fides this time before anything happens on my property. Thanks for the tips.
posted by diode at 6:50 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yay, an insurance question. At minimum, say, “Have your agent e-mail me proof of workers compensation and general liability insurance.” That proof is a certificate of insurance, it is signed by the agent and has a date on it. Don’t take certificates from any other source. Don’t let them start work w/o it. If the general liability limit is less than $1MM each occurrence, don’t hire them, they have weird insurance. The employers liability limits by the work comp section don’t really matter.
posted by ixipkcams at 6:54 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ixipkcams at 6:54 PM on December 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
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