Is there a name for this phenomenon (besides patriarchy)?
November 21, 2023 1:36 PM Subscribe
I've come up against a certain problem for the second time in my IT career. I'm not looking for a solution. I'm just looking for confirmation that it's a thing that has a name.
What is this phenomenon called?
Situation:
Female in IT presents her progress on a particular problem/deliverable (let's call it Deliverable X) to a male superior (such as a manager, let's call him Bob). She says the work is nearly complete. She says that she is facing a few challenges, but she is in the process of resolving them, details how she is resolving them, and expects to have everything completed successfully very soon. She expects to hear a response like "Great, carry on, thanks for the update."
What happens instead is that Bob says "Hmmm, Deliverable X is a very hard problem. I think you should solve it like this - and goes on to say how he would solve it." And then the conversation ends without Bob taking any further questions. Discussion is over.
So I'm not sure if I need to spell it out, but it's as though he didn't hear a word she said. And now she is stuck trying to figure out whether to carry on as she was and complete Deliverable X. Or if she is supposed to start from scratch and do it the way Bob would have done it (which is probably the wrong way anyhow).
I hope this is clear. He's definitely mansplaining the problem to her, even though she's already nearly solved it. But there's more to it than that because he's in a position of power to accept/reject the deliverable and she needs to decide what to do next. Thanks!
What is this phenomenon called?
Situation:
Female in IT presents her progress on a particular problem/deliverable (let's call it Deliverable X) to a male superior (such as a manager, let's call him Bob). She says the work is nearly complete. She says that she is facing a few challenges, but she is in the process of resolving them, details how she is resolving them, and expects to have everything completed successfully very soon. She expects to hear a response like "Great, carry on, thanks for the update."
What happens instead is that Bob says "Hmmm, Deliverable X is a very hard problem. I think you should solve it like this - and goes on to say how he would solve it." And then the conversation ends without Bob taking any further questions. Discussion is over.
So I'm not sure if I need to spell it out, but it's as though he didn't hear a word she said. And now she is stuck trying to figure out whether to carry on as she was and complete Deliverable X. Or if she is supposed to start from scratch and do it the way Bob would have done it (which is probably the wrong way anyhow).
I hope this is clear. He's definitely mansplaining the problem to her, even though she's already nearly solved it. But there's more to it than that because he's in a position of power to accept/reject the deliverable and she needs to decide what to do next. Thanks!
Well, the first thing that came to mind was dealing with a micromanager. More tangential and probably not as relevant would be "Not Invented Here" syndrome. Oh, and I just retired from 47 years in Banking IT and I saw a ton of this kind of behavior from managers (though sometimes the managers were female).
posted by forthright at 1:47 PM on November 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by forthright at 1:47 PM on November 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
It _needs_ a term, but I can't think of one. If there isn't a name, I'd suggest "Used To Do It Syndrome". It sounds like Bob at one time worked in a similar position and still thinks he is up-to-date on the skills and knowledge, despite having spent some years in a management role.
posted by TimHare at 2:00 PM on November 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by TimHare at 2:00 PM on November 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's the trite, gendered, but with elements of truth "Women want to be understood, men want to solve".
She should approach Bob with "I'm 90% done, using my approach, and I'm confident in my ability to complete the remaining work, I don't need any input on it at this time. If you'd prefer, I can start over with your approach, but that will add Y weeks. Your call boss, what would you prefer?"
posted by Dashy at 2:07 PM on November 21, 2023 [14 favorites]
She should approach Bob with "I'm 90% done, using my approach, and I'm confident in my ability to complete the remaining work, I don't need any input on it at this time. If you'd prefer, I can start over with your approach, but that will add Y weeks. Your call boss, what would you prefer?"
posted by Dashy at 2:07 PM on November 21, 2023 [14 favorites]
Best answer: I have a Ph.D. in management.
Bob's behavior sounds like "not listening."
As in, Bob hears "Deliverable X" and stops listening.
Then he says whatever comes into his head, because he wasn't actually listening to what you said.
It reminds me of the listening block called rehearsing; see the "barriers to active listening" section here. But, he doesn't seem to have been rehearsing what he says, and this has the added bonus dimensions of his not doing his job of as your manager and his apparent sexism.
Because humor sometimes helps, I propose calling this phenomenon blah blah Ginger
posted by orange (sherbet) rabbit at 2:12 PM on November 21, 2023 [25 favorites]
Bob's behavior sounds like "not listening."
As in, Bob hears "Deliverable X" and stops listening.
Then he says whatever comes into his head, because he wasn't actually listening to what you said.
It reminds me of the listening block called rehearsing; see the "barriers to active listening" section here. But, he doesn't seem to have been rehearsing what he says, and this has the added bonus dimensions of his not doing his job of as your manager and his apparent sexism.
Because humor sometimes helps, I propose calling this phenomenon blah blah Ginger
posted by orange (sherbet) rabbit at 2:12 PM on November 21, 2023 [25 favorites]
Pissed off grey hair response - ignore it.
If Bob says anything about how he would solve the problem, respond "It's always so interesting to learn how things used to be done."
If Bob says it needs to be done his way, respond "I tried that and it doesn't work in the current setup"
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 2:14 PM on November 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
If Bob says anything about how he would solve the problem, respond "It's always so interesting to learn how things used to be done."
If Bob says it needs to be done his way, respond "I tried that and it doesn't work in the current setup"
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 2:14 PM on November 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Best answer: The vast majority of people are unable to simply hold space* for another person to just talk about what's challenging them. I think this is true in almost all domains, but is especially true in IT. If a Person A is presented with another Person B reporting problems, obstacles, or unresolved challenges, I think it's a very uncommon Person A who would not think (and it's probably actually subconscious), "This person has chosen to come to me and enumerate a set of unresolved problems, so clearly they are soliciting answers or guidance." I'm not saying that's right, but saying it based on experience working in or around IT for 30 years. And, yes, it's definitely more prevalent for men to engage in this sort of thing, in IT and other domains.
Also, in the situation described above, I can't tell what Ask was made to Bob. e.g. was it made clear that the intent of bringing it to Bob was only to provide a status report on positive progress and not to solicit guidance or to paint a picture of Risk? Bob being Bob, any amount of uncertainty or risk can trigger him to go into That Mode.
* Almost no one is taught how to do this, and we live in a culture where everyone's constantly bombarded with messaging that they need to react to anything that is said ; speak first and think later ; appear decisive even if you don't know ; etc. Add to that the CYA mentality, and sense for some that their professional or self worth is tied to how much auditory attention they can capture...
posted by jerome powell buys his sweatbands in bulk only at 2:21 PM on November 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
Also, in the situation described above, I can't tell what Ask was made to Bob. e.g. was it made clear that the intent of bringing it to Bob was only to provide a status report on positive progress and not to solicit guidance or to paint a picture of Risk? Bob being Bob, any amount of uncertainty or risk can trigger him to go into That Mode.
* Almost no one is taught how to do this, and we live in a culture where everyone's constantly bombarded with messaging that they need to react to anything that is said ; speak first and think later ; appear decisive even if you don't know ; etc. Add to that the CYA mentality, and sense for some that their professional or self worth is tied to how much auditory attention they can capture...
posted by jerome powell buys his sweatbands in bulk only at 2:21 PM on November 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
The OP says "I'm not looking for a solution. I'm just looking for confirmation that it's a thing that has a name" and half this thread is people suggesting responses. So whatever it is called, some flavor of it is happening here too.
Personally I think mansplaining fits - a person with less knowledge of a specific issue (Bob may have expertise but clearly does not know the specifics for this deliverable, partly because he didn't listen) talks about what should be done to a person with better and deeper knowledge. It is very likely gendered, which is why it's mansplaining and not some other more generic form of not listening/bloviating.
Of course there's no test you can take to say for sure that the conscious or subconscious motivation for Bob's behavior is based on his gender stereotypes or worldview, but in this context I'd say it's likely. The only way you could rule out mansplaining is if similar behavior has been witnessed with male subordinates too.
If you don't want to use a gendered term, maybe bloviating or "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.
posted by misskaz at 2:24 PM on November 21, 2023 [18 favorites]
Personally I think mansplaining fits - a person with less knowledge of a specific issue (Bob may have expertise but clearly does not know the specifics for this deliverable, partly because he didn't listen) talks about what should be done to a person with better and deeper knowledge. It is very likely gendered, which is why it's mansplaining and not some other more generic form of not listening/bloviating.
Of course there's no test you can take to say for sure that the conscious or subconscious motivation for Bob's behavior is based on his gender stereotypes or worldview, but in this context I'd say it's likely. The only way you could rule out mansplaining is if similar behavior has been witnessed with male subordinates too.
If you don't want to use a gendered term, maybe bloviating or "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.
posted by misskaz at 2:24 PM on November 21, 2023 [18 favorites]
micromansplainagement
bikeshedsplaining - the manager knows how to do the technical part more than he knows how to manage
overcontrolling
posted by amtho at 2:48 PM on November 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
bikeshedsplaining - the manager knows how to do the technical part more than he knows how to manage
overcontrolling
posted by amtho at 2:48 PM on November 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
So, just to offer a counterpoint, I might say something like this as a gentle "you're way off course in an area where I have genuine expertise" nudge to try to avoid micromanaging and/or a very unpleasant subsequent code review, and to give them room to keep problem-solving.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:53 PM on November 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:53 PM on November 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I don't have a term for it, but there is definitely a corollary of mansplaining that is not necessarily "I need to explain how right I am," but rather a more general "I need everyone to listen to me talk," even when he himself may know on some level that the talking is not relevant or necessary. May I suggest... broviating?
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:33 PM on November 21, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:33 PM on November 21, 2023 [20 favorites]
May I suggest... broviating?
I am in awe. That's perfect.
posted by humbug at 7:40 PM on November 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
I am in awe. That's perfect.
posted by humbug at 7:40 PM on November 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
I don’t like the sexiest element of mansplaining or broviating as from what you’ve described this has happened to me all the time. I myself have done done it and learn to clearly describe things as “brainstorming” or people will think I’m questioning their approach. It is passionate people in any field who like to talk shop.
I think the term I use is solutioning to try to kill this talk. “This is a status report not a solutioning conversation. Did the requirements change?”
posted by geoff. at 9:10 PM on November 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think the term I use is solutioning to try to kill this talk. “This is a status report not a solutioning conversation. Did the requirements change?”
posted by geoff. at 9:10 PM on November 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
If Bob says anything about how he would solve the problem, respond "It's always so interesting to learn how things used to be done."
Please don't do this, it is patronising and rude. Unless you're comfortable with openly insulting Bob (which would be unprofessional anyway) you should steer clear of this approach, even if Bob wasn't your superior or a manager.
You've said you're not looking for a solution, just a name, and I'd refer to Bob's approach as "solutionizing". Some men only know how to solve problems, they've got no other mode of dealing with the world.
You've given him a status update about a problem and his automatic response is to find a solution to that problem, even if that's entirely unwarranted at this point. However it's also a form of mansplaining but not generally of malicious or sexist intent (solutionizers usually do this to other men just as much as to women), more a lack of any other tools to deal with hearing about a problem. Probably also fair to refer to it as a lack of emotional intelligence, as well as poor management skills.
So altogether I'd say the correct words are "overpromoted" and "underskilled". (Sorry Bob, but it's on you to learn the people skills needed to be a good manager and you haven't)
posted by underclocked at 11:05 PM on November 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Please don't do this, it is patronising and rude. Unless you're comfortable with openly insulting Bob (which would be unprofessional anyway) you should steer clear of this approach, even if Bob wasn't your superior or a manager.
You've said you're not looking for a solution, just a name, and I'd refer to Bob's approach as "solutionizing". Some men only know how to solve problems, they've got no other mode of dealing with the world.
You've given him a status update about a problem and his automatic response is to find a solution to that problem, even if that's entirely unwarranted at this point. However it's also a form of mansplaining but not generally of malicious or sexist intent (solutionizers usually do this to other men just as much as to women), more a lack of any other tools to deal with hearing about a problem. Probably also fair to refer to it as a lack of emotional intelligence, as well as poor management skills.
So altogether I'd say the correct words are "overpromoted" and "underskilled". (Sorry Bob, but it's on you to learn the people skills needed to be a good manager and you haven't)
posted by underclocked at 11:05 PM on November 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Whoops I said “sexiest” obviously meant sexist.
posted by geoff. at 11:15 PM on November 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by geoff. at 11:15 PM on November 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I have always seen it as "boss marking his territory". Some bosses like to feel their employees can't function without them. So they dump out a proof of their hands on, spontaneous problem solving ability from time to time to remind both themselves and their employees of that.
Male bosses often see female employees as less capable/more likely to take it, so they often do their dumping with them.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:22 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Male bosses often see female employees as less capable/more likely to take it, so they often do their dumping with them.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:22 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm gonna buck the trend and say your friend needs to add more assertive questions to her report.
Her expectation (as you describe it) is implicit.
Her boss is hearing the wrong question (everything is a question, even this statement).
So how could she make sure the boss hears the questions she wants him to?
posted by KMH at 2:36 AM on November 22, 2023
Her expectation (as you describe it) is implicit.
Her boss is hearing the wrong question (everything is a question, even this statement).
So how could she make sure the boss hears the questions she wants him to?
posted by KMH at 2:36 AM on November 22, 2023
While I'm in full agreement that "mansplaining" and "broviating" and "boss marking territory" are all likely to be happening here, I'd like to come at it from a different perspective because I think the other side is actually more important, and the female employee is more in control of, or is a more active participant in, the responses she is eliciting than she realizes.
There's a component of "unclear communication of expectations" here by the female employee, with an added component of "oversharing".
Female employee didn't flag up front that this was merely a status update. In the absence of such flagging, the listener is understandably primed to hear problems to solve as opposed to being primed for a passive role expected of him.
Female employee went UNASKED into what sounds like hugely unnecessary amounts of detail describing challenges faced and how challenges were solved. The listener understandably interprets her making the voice to go into this otherwise-needless level of detail as, "I'm wondering if I did this right? Did I approach the challenges correctly?" and responds, "Here's how I would have solved the issues you faced."
So, that's my answer: "oversharing" and "unclear communication of expectations".
posted by MiraK at 6:46 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's a component of "unclear communication of expectations" here by the female employee, with an added component of "oversharing".
Female employee didn't flag up front that this was merely a status update. In the absence of such flagging, the listener is understandably primed to hear problems to solve as opposed to being primed for a passive role expected of him.
Female employee went UNASKED into what sounds like hugely unnecessary amounts of detail describing challenges faced and how challenges were solved. The listener understandably interprets her making the voice to go into this otherwise-needless level of detail as, "I'm wondering if I did this right? Did I approach the challenges correctly?" and responds, "Here's how I would have solved the issues you faced."
So, that's my answer: "oversharing" and "unclear communication of expectations".
posted by MiraK at 6:46 AM on November 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: I said “sexiest” obviously meant sexist.
posted by amtho at 7:09 AM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 7:09 AM on November 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: There are lots of really good ideas here - thank you very much. I just want to clarify something: I tried to be clear that Bob is in a position of power here but I should have spelled out that this is not an ad hoc 'sharing' session. It's either a) a scheduled status update meeting, or b) Bob asked informally (but still as a manager) about status of the deliverable. Which means the answer requires details and not merely a "It's going fine, thanks".
posted by kitcat at 7:48 AM on November 22, 2023
posted by kitcat at 7:48 AM on November 22, 2023
I'm reminded of my older relatives, who ask me about my life and then hone in on any problems I'm facing and how they would solve them, ignoring me talking about the solutions I've found. I've always thought of them as people who "love to hear the sound of their own voice", which means it's not really about me or my problems. Let them give their little speech, I'll nod and smile and continue doing things my own way.
I've met people like this in the workplace too, usually men in that context, so broviating seems like the perfect neologism. I usually deal with them the same way I deal with my relatives, fwiw.
posted by guessthis at 8:59 AM on November 22, 2023
I've met people like this in the workplace too, usually men in that context, so broviating seems like the perfect neologism. I usually deal with them the same way I deal with my relatives, fwiw.
posted by guessthis at 8:59 AM on November 22, 2023
Best answer: There is a well known tech parable called "remove the duck"
Have you ever noticed how some people want to "touch" everything which is being done on a project, even if it has nothing to do with them? It need not be huge, but it seems like they want to have just a small deviation applied to all potential changes. It's almost like they want to be able to point at any given part and say "I'm the reason that happened".posted by roaring beast at 9:02 AM on November 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: This has become a really useful list of frustrating and even toxic workplace behaviors. I appreciate you guys! I'm going to mark as favorites the ones that I think really explain what's going in the cases I have in mind.
posted by kitcat at 9:24 AM on November 22, 2023
posted by kitcat at 9:24 AM on November 22, 2023
Anecdote:
Once, my boss was off sick so I had to give grandboss/CEO his status update in her place. Boss wisely sent her trusted assistant to accompany me.
"It'll be fine. Just remember," murmured the assistant, "never EVER say anything to him that sounds like you're having a problem because he will try to solve it."
Off we went. CEO nodded and smiled at my updates. It was going well. As a final tadaa I announced that our media invite had received a lot of interest and that we now were in the enviable position of having more people who wanted to attend than room in the van, so we were looking into -"
"Well, book the bus, then!"
That threw me off course.
"Um, we don't have a vehicle with more than seven seats, so I was thinking -"
"I'm sure there must be something!" He was becoming irritated.
"...yes and we have it allllllll under control," the assistant interrupted and gave us both the blandest of looks.
The tempest subsided, the heavy eyebrows lifted, we moved on to other (problemfree) news.
And if you're thinking the assistant deserves a raise: Yes. My boss eventually quit and the assistant is now my new boss.
Not sure that helps, but some people just Are Like That.
posted by Omnomnom at 9:29 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Once, my boss was off sick so I had to give grandboss/CEO his status update in her place. Boss wisely sent her trusted assistant to accompany me.
"It'll be fine. Just remember," murmured the assistant, "never EVER say anything to him that sounds like you're having a problem because he will try to solve it."
Off we went. CEO nodded and smiled at my updates. It was going well. As a final tadaa I announced that our media invite had received a lot of interest and that we now were in the enviable position of having more people who wanted to attend than room in the van, so we were looking into -"
"Well, book the bus, then!"
That threw me off course.
"Um, we don't have a vehicle with more than seven seats, so I was thinking -"
"I'm sure there must be something!" He was becoming irritated.
"...yes and we have it allllllll under control," the assistant interrupted and gave us both the blandest of looks.
The tempest subsided, the heavy eyebrows lifted, we moved on to other (problemfree) news.
And if you're thinking the assistant deserves a raise: Yes. My boss eventually quit and the assistant is now my new boss.
Not sure that helps, but some people just Are Like That.
posted by Omnomnom at 9:29 AM on November 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
This sounds like you may be doing something I do, which my best friend affectionately calls "gold-star fishing", where I talk about a problem AND also overshare about the challenges I faced and how well I solved them. On some level, I'm doing it because I was a good student and am used to getting external validation for being smart, so even as an adult, I still want someone to give me a gold star for being smart.
But lots of people don't do that - once a problem is on track to being solved, they try to save face by acting like it never existed and not talking about it at all. Which is fine. Managers don't need to know everything from their employees. They need to feel confident that things are sailing along smoothly, and the way to convey that is NOT to talk about the tidal waves and storms and sharks, it's just to solve those problems without involving the manager when possible, breeze past the solveable problems, and then focus on the smooth parts by reporting that everything is on schedule. Many people only tell the manager about a problem if they need the manager to help solve it.
So it's possible that when you mention past problems, solved problems, or solution-in-progress-problems, manager might not realize that he's supposed to say "ok sounds like you're doing an awesome job, carry on". I suspect he just hears that there's a problem and assumes that the reason you're telling him is that you actually want him to weigh in on these problems.
I wonder if it would work for you to mentally treat the progress report differently. Only tell him things that require next steps from him. Try being more vague: "The project is going great. The team is acing it. We're two days ahead of schedule. We are on-budget. Client loves it so far." And you can also say, "here's what I need next".
But, try omitting all information about problems that have been solved. Once it's solved, don't present it to him. If he says "why is this behind schedule" be as vague as possible "oh we had to delve a little deeper into the planning logistics. The team really rocked it so that only took 10 hours. The revision made it actually stronger than before, so we're back on track to deliver for Date and all I need is Thing." Don't talk about any problems unless explicitly pressed (like if he says "what exactly was the snag?") But I bet he'll just say "ok great".
Not sure this will solve your issue, but my gut thinks it might. I don't think of my job as "tell my manager the inner workings of everything", I see it as "help my manager feel less stressed and more confident that things are going well", and I feel that the way to do that is to be breezy about solved problems.
Make sure to talk
Good luck!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:54 AM on November 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
But lots of people don't do that - once a problem is on track to being solved, they try to save face by acting like it never existed and not talking about it at all. Which is fine. Managers don't need to know everything from their employees. They need to feel confident that things are sailing along smoothly, and the way to convey that is NOT to talk about the tidal waves and storms and sharks, it's just to solve those problems without involving the manager when possible, breeze past the solveable problems, and then focus on the smooth parts by reporting that everything is on schedule. Many people only tell the manager about a problem if they need the manager to help solve it.
So it's possible that when you mention past problems, solved problems, or solution-in-progress-problems, manager might not realize that he's supposed to say "ok sounds like you're doing an awesome job, carry on". I suspect he just hears that there's a problem and assumes that the reason you're telling him is that you actually want him to weigh in on these problems.
I wonder if it would work for you to mentally treat the progress report differently. Only tell him things that require next steps from him. Try being more vague: "The project is going great. The team is acing it. We're two days ahead of schedule. We are on-budget. Client loves it so far." And you can also say, "here's what I need next".
But, try omitting all information about problems that have been solved. Once it's solved, don't present it to him. If he says "why is this behind schedule" be as vague as possible "oh we had to delve a little deeper into the planning logistics. The team really rocked it so that only took 10 hours. The revision made it actually stronger than before, so we're back on track to deliver for Date and all I need is Thing." Don't talk about any problems unless explicitly pressed (like if he says "what exactly was the snag?") But I bet he'll just say "ok great".
Not sure this will solve your issue, but my gut thinks it might. I don't think of my job as "tell my manager the inner workings of everything", I see it as "help my manager feel less stressed and more confident that things are going well", and I feel that the way to do that is to be breezy about solved problems.
Make sure to talk
Good luck!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:54 AM on November 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Oops was trying to add - DO make sure to talk about problems you solved around your performance review or in the post-mortem of a project. Manager should indeed be giving you gold stars (and raises and promotions) for being smart and capable! I just think the timing of those complex-problem-convos needs to be later, when they are solved and you're just presenting your accomplishments. There is definitely a time for that and it's a great career move... at the right time - which is NOT when manager is tapping their foot for a status update on a deliverable.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:01 AM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 11:01 AM on November 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
This made me laugh, in some deep-sigh defeated way, as a woman who worked in IT for over a decade.
The remove-the-duck thing is so accurate here, because i'd be kicking myself for not leaving something intentional to nitpick at or change, or laying it right in front at some point so they could see it.
But, why i replied is that i've noticed that with rare exceptions only younger or newer managers, PMs, team leads, whathaveyou did this. Which makes me believe that there must be some term for this when it's taught to them in whatever dumbass factory management course or business degree program they graduated from or were sent to. One of the worst managers like this i ever had was barely older than me at the time, but had been sent to an intensive management training program by the company.
It got to the point that when i was picking up short term contract gigs, i'd be relieved when i showed up and found my supervisor was some old BOFH type, because i knew this was very unlikely to be coming.
posted by emptythought at 4:17 AM on November 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
The remove-the-duck thing is so accurate here, because i'd be kicking myself for not leaving something intentional to nitpick at or change, or laying it right in front at some point so they could see it.
But, why i replied is that i've noticed that with rare exceptions only younger or newer managers, PMs, team leads, whathaveyou did this. Which makes me believe that there must be some term for this when it's taught to them in whatever dumbass factory management course or business degree program they graduated from or were sent to. One of the worst managers like this i ever had was barely older than me at the time, but had been sent to an intensive management training program by the company.
It got to the point that when i was picking up short term contract gigs, i'd be relieved when i showed up and found my supervisor was some old BOFH type, because i knew this was very unlikely to be coming.
posted by emptythought at 4:17 AM on November 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by kitcat at 1:43 PM on November 21, 2023 [1 favorite]