Sacredness of Jewish Tallit - ok to use in visual theatrical reference?
October 9, 2023 10:15 AM Subscribe
I am curious about the use of something like the Tallit in a theatrical production to indicate Judaism, in a space where the actors and audience are almost certainly not Jewish themselves...
I'm directing a production of Little Shop of Horrors over the next few months for a local community theater, and I'm curious about a particular visual reference I'd like to make and whether or not it would be offensive or culturally appropriative in a negative way.
In the song "Be My Son" from the musical, the shopkeeper Mushnik (who is coded as Jewish in the show although never explicitly such...he uses Hebrew as verbal indicators of frustration or affection) is singing with the main character Seymour. The music of the song changes at one point to heavily Jewish structures, sounding extremely reminiscent of Fiddler on the Roof. I'd like to visually make reference to Fiddler specifically in this scene in a couple of way: one is to have the main character do a short section of the famous "bottle dance" from Fiddler, and the other is for the two characters to fold the aprons they wear down to visually look like a Tallit, with the neck cords becoming fringes as they hang down.
I am deeply ignorant, however, of how sacred the Tallit is considered, and whether representing it in this way would be considered offensive. So: would the above (non-Jewish actors referencing Fiddler through visual reference to wearing a Tallit) be considered offensive?
I'm directing a production of Little Shop of Horrors over the next few months for a local community theater, and I'm curious about a particular visual reference I'd like to make and whether or not it would be offensive or culturally appropriative in a negative way.
In the song "Be My Son" from the musical, the shopkeeper Mushnik (who is coded as Jewish in the show although never explicitly such...he uses Hebrew as verbal indicators of frustration or affection) is singing with the main character Seymour. The music of the song changes at one point to heavily Jewish structures, sounding extremely reminiscent of Fiddler on the Roof. I'd like to visually make reference to Fiddler specifically in this scene in a couple of way: one is to have the main character do a short section of the famous "bottle dance" from Fiddler, and the other is for the two characters to fold the aprons they wear down to visually look like a Tallit, with the neck cords becoming fringes as they hang down.
I am deeply ignorant, however, of how sacred the Tallit is considered, and whether representing it in this way would be considered offensive. So: would the above (non-Jewish actors referencing Fiddler through visual reference to wearing a Tallit) be considered offensive?
+1 to not being offensive to this Jew either. A tallit is something that a religiously observant Jew would wear, like a Christian wearing a crucifix or a Sikh carrying a kirpan. They're just normal things for people in that belief system to wear.
That's not to say that you couldn't possibly find a Jew who would be offended if you looked hard enough but in my purely personal opinion such a person would, in this context, be on the overly-sensitive end of the spectrum.
It's a tallit. It's mundane. Personally I think it's positive that you're showing his Jewishness as just a normal part of his existence, which it is and should be.
All that being said, I agree with holborne that the tallit itself isn't in any way offensive, as long as you're not playing the Jewish element for laughs, as in "look at the Jew, isn't he weird?" But the very fact you've asked this question suggests you're trying to avoid that angle. If in doubt, ask a Jewish friend or a rabbi from a nearby synagogue to watch a rehearsal and give you their opinion.
posted by underclocked at 11:27 AM on October 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
That's not to say that you couldn't possibly find a Jew who would be offended if you looked hard enough but in my purely personal opinion such a person would, in this context, be on the overly-sensitive end of the spectrum.
It's a tallit. It's mundane. Personally I think it's positive that you're showing his Jewishness as just a normal part of his existence, which it is and should be.
All that being said, I agree with holborne that the tallit itself isn't in any way offensive, as long as you're not playing the Jewish element for laughs, as in "look at the Jew, isn't he weird?" But the very fact you've asked this question suggests you're trying to avoid that angle. If in doubt, ask a Jewish friend or a rabbi from a nearby synagogue to watch a rehearsal and give you their opinion.
posted by underclocked at 11:27 AM on October 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
I agree with the previous comments, except that unlike Holborne, I would say that a tallit is an inherently sacred object. We don't wear it into the bathroom, we kiss it if it touches the ground (likewise for yarmulkes in the latter case), etc. From your description, and given your concern about this, I agree it sounds probably fine to evoke the tallit, though.
posted by likedoomsday at 11:45 AM on October 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by likedoomsday at 11:45 AM on October 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
a tallit is a devotional object and yes it is considered to have an inherent sanctity, for people who use one. I don't understand the plan here - is the character praying? Obviously if he's praying then yeah I guess it works? But is the idea he's dancing around and needs something to show he's a Jew (even though the character isn't actually explicitly a Jew?) I don't get it, and the idea of making a mock-tallit out of an apron doesn't sit well with me either. Maybe I'm not understanding your vision, but this sounds tasteless and unnecessary to me.
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:04 PM on October 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 12:04 PM on October 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don't consider myself an overly sensitive person but the staging you suggest would make me more than a little uncomfortable! Whether the tallit is an inherently sacred object is not really the point - the thing making me cringe would be the spectacle of seeing non-Jewish actors perform over-the-top Jewishness for a non-Jewish audience. The book and music themselves are already pretty blunt - I'm not sure you need any shawl-based visual gags to hammer it home.
posted by theodolite at 12:24 PM on October 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 12:24 PM on October 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Religious Jew here, and also a theater nerd. I have to echo likedoomsday and fingersandtoes that a tallit is a religious object and not the same as a yarmulke. That doesn’t mean you can never use it, or never use it for comedy, but you’re right to be choosy. And since you’re not talking about using an actual tallit, only referencing the idea of one, even that isn’t really as much of an issue. Under a lot of circumstances my answer would probably be that the first suggestion, the bottle dance, wouldn’t really be a problem but the second would make me uncomfortable.
But the song you’re talking about, Mushnik & Son, changes the question a bit. It’s a song about how the owner explicitly wants to adopt the main character because he wants to keep the money that Seymour (‘s plant) is bringing in. Yes, he’s using Yiddish, and he’s coded as Jewish (and Seymour is too), but the song - for all its klezmer elements - is largely a tango (some parts even feel like a direct lift from Hernando’s Hideaway). That was an intentional choice the composers made - it’s already walking a super fine line about what’s going on there, and erring on the side of caution. It’s a non-Jewish coded song with Jewish elements. Making the moment explicitly Jewish - even for comedy - takes it to a place that’s kind of problematic. Doing it as a non-Jewish director with non-Jewish actors for a largely non-Jewish audience (presumably, based on average demographics)? I think you can find better ways to make it funny.
posted by Mchelly at 1:17 PM on October 9, 2023 [15 favorites]
But the song you’re talking about, Mushnik & Son, changes the question a bit. It’s a song about how the owner explicitly wants to adopt the main character because he wants to keep the money that Seymour (‘s plant) is bringing in. Yes, he’s using Yiddish, and he’s coded as Jewish (and Seymour is too), but the song - for all its klezmer elements - is largely a tango (some parts even feel like a direct lift from Hernando’s Hideaway). That was an intentional choice the composers made - it’s already walking a super fine line about what’s going on there, and erring on the side of caution. It’s a non-Jewish coded song with Jewish elements. Making the moment explicitly Jewish - even for comedy - takes it to a place that’s kind of problematic. Doing it as a non-Jewish director with non-Jewish actors for a largely non-Jewish audience (presumably, based on average demographics)? I think you can find better ways to make it funny.
posted by Mchelly at 1:17 PM on October 9, 2023 [15 favorites]
Best answer: he uses Hebrew as verbal indicators of frustration or affection
I have never seen the play but I would be extremely surprised if this character, especially with that name, was using Hebrew. I would be pretty sure it's Yiddish, which is a totally different language with a totally different cultural context.
All of which is to say that whatever decision you make here (and I personally would absolutely consider a talit a special object that you treat with respect), you should really have some Jewish people, ideally ones with a serious amount of cultural knowledge, take a look at your actual staging as it is performed, not just at textual descriptions - and that you err on the side of sensitivity. Incidentally I said cultural knowledge rather than religious knowledge because somebody being a Yiddish-speaking business-owner (and first-generation immigrant?) does not make them religious or imply anything about their level of observance. Would this character even own a talit? Is religion actually important to them? Maybe, but from your description it's not a given. Judaism is a religion but it's also a set of cultures and ethnic backgrounds, and it can be problematic and lazy (and oh so common) to conflate those things.
I'd also err on the side of sensitivity all the more because the descriptions of the character I see ("His habits tend toward the stingy and dishonest", etc.) are definitely in line with age-old antisemitic tropes. I know the playwrights are Jewish and Seymore is Jewish and so on, but as comments above point out there is a big difference between in jokes and internal cultural references versus cultural stereotypes played by and for outsiders. And antisemitism is having a moment, and especially right now is not a great time for stereotypes.
posted by trig at 1:31 PM on October 9, 2023 [14 favorites]
I have never seen the play but I would be extremely surprised if this character, especially with that name, was using Hebrew. I would be pretty sure it's Yiddish, which is a totally different language with a totally different cultural context.
All of which is to say that whatever decision you make here (and I personally would absolutely consider a talit a special object that you treat with respect), you should really have some Jewish people, ideally ones with a serious amount of cultural knowledge, take a look at your actual staging as it is performed, not just at textual descriptions - and that you err on the side of sensitivity. Incidentally I said cultural knowledge rather than religious knowledge because somebody being a Yiddish-speaking business-owner (and first-generation immigrant?) does not make them religious or imply anything about their level of observance. Would this character even own a talit? Is religion actually important to them? Maybe, but from your description it's not a given. Judaism is a religion but it's also a set of cultures and ethnic backgrounds, and it can be problematic and lazy (and oh so common) to conflate those things.
I'd also err on the side of sensitivity all the more because the descriptions of the character I see ("His habits tend toward the stingy and dishonest", etc.) are definitely in line with age-old antisemitic tropes. I know the playwrights are Jewish and Seymore is Jewish and so on, but as comments above point out there is a big difference between in jokes and internal cultural references versus cultural stereotypes played by and for outsiders. And antisemitism is having a moment, and especially right now is not a great time for stereotypes.
posted by trig at 1:31 PM on October 9, 2023 [14 favorites]
Response by poster: So many great perspectives and suggestions! This is totally why I came to AskMeFi for this one.
I was (obviously) already second guessing my idea, and given the context reminder by Mchelly and trig above (Mushnik being "stingy and dishonest" is already scratching my 'nope' buttons for the portrayal) I think it's a better choice to just allow the script to speak for itself and not risk giving antisemitism any possibility of voice. Given my slip of the finger above (yes, trig, I absolutely meant Yiddish and not Hebrew) I don't think I'm in a position to give this the correct level of scrutiny.
So: MAYBE bottle dance, but definitely no talit.
posted by griffey at 1:39 PM on October 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was (obviously) already second guessing my idea, and given the context reminder by Mchelly and trig above (Mushnik being "stingy and dishonest" is already scratching my 'nope' buttons for the portrayal) I think it's a better choice to just allow the script to speak for itself and not risk giving antisemitism any possibility of voice. Given my slip of the finger above (yes, trig, I absolutely meant Yiddish and not Hebrew) I don't think I'm in a position to give this the correct level of scrutiny.
So: MAYBE bottle dance, but definitely no talit.
posted by griffey at 1:39 PM on October 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've seen bottle dances in multiple shows (The Producers, Urinetown...but with toilet paper) that aren't hugely Jewishly religious, so I presume that's fine?
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:24 PM on October 9, 2023
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:24 PM on October 9, 2023
Oof. No, please do not do the bottle dance either. You've gotten a lot of answers that reference the tallit because that's how you framed your question, but honestly, the sacred/religious aspect is a bit of a red herring.
The main issue is that in a play written by Jewish people, in which multiple characters are vaguely Jewish, it's no problem if the villain is just as Jewish as everybody else. It is a problem when there's a production of that play put on by gentiles for gentiles that deliberately emphasizes the Jewishness only of the "stingy and dishonest" bad guy. It doesn't matter whether you're emphasizing it through cultural or religious or ethnic elements. It's going to come across as at best clueless, and at worst anti-semitic.
I can imagine a production of Little Shop that embraces the Jewishness of all the characters, but even that would need a lot of sensitivity and cultural knowledge. And, as you note, you don't have that knowledge. Which is fine! There are a lot of subcultures in the world, and nobody can possibly know about all of them! It's great that you've recognized what you don't know, and it's clear that you're asking in the best possible spirit.
But it's also clear that you've chosen to direct a play that -- as broad and goofy as it may be -- plays with Jewishness in a way that assumes more Jewish cultural knowledge than you actually have.
So I would echo trig's suggestion that whatever you decide in this particular case, you bring in somebody with genuine Jewish knowledge to watch your production and give you feedback. And please do it early enough that you can make changes and please make it clear to them that their job is to help you find trouble spots; especially if it's a friend of yours, you don't want them to feel pressured to politely rubberstamp all your choices.
posted by yankeefog at 1:11 AM on October 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
The main issue is that in a play written by Jewish people, in which multiple characters are vaguely Jewish, it's no problem if the villain is just as Jewish as everybody else. It is a problem when there's a production of that play put on by gentiles for gentiles that deliberately emphasizes the Jewishness only of the "stingy and dishonest" bad guy. It doesn't matter whether you're emphasizing it through cultural or religious or ethnic elements. It's going to come across as at best clueless, and at worst anti-semitic.
I can imagine a production of Little Shop that embraces the Jewishness of all the characters, but even that would need a lot of sensitivity and cultural knowledge. And, as you note, you don't have that knowledge. Which is fine! There are a lot of subcultures in the world, and nobody can possibly know about all of them! It's great that you've recognized what you don't know, and it's clear that you're asking in the best possible spirit.
But it's also clear that you've chosen to direct a play that -- as broad and goofy as it may be -- plays with Jewishness in a way that assumes more Jewish cultural knowledge than you actually have.
So I would echo trig's suggestion that whatever you decide in this particular case, you bring in somebody with genuine Jewish knowledge to watch your production and give you feedback. And please do it early enough that you can make changes and please make it clear to them that their job is to help you find trouble spots; especially if it's a friend of yours, you don't want them to feel pressured to politely rubberstamp all your choices.
posted by yankeefog at 1:11 AM on October 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
To be honest, my take on the couple of amateur productions of Little Shop I've seen is that the character Mushnik is a pretty classic antisemitic archetype. If you want to make someone in your show Jewish, go with Seymore or the love interest. Jews have created a lot of entertainment media for broad US audiences. Some of it includes gross stereotypes for public consumption and imo, Mushnik represents that.
posted by Summers at 3:25 AM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Summers at 3:25 AM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I won't speak to the choice of how to depict the character because I don't know the play.
But just to speak to the tallit issue: in my community, it's the tzitzit (the cords) that are significant. The tallit is just cloth, but it becomes special, even sacred cloth once the tzitzit are added. We happily ask non-Jews to wear a kippah when attending services, but we ask them to not wear a tallit. Only Jews of post-bnei mitzvah age are allowed to wear tzitzit.
That said, that only counts for real tzitzit. Something which looks like but aren't tzitzit - that doesn't matter. I dressed up as Motel from Fiddler for Purim one year, and I had strings attached just inside my trousers to imitate the tzitzit coming out from under my shirt. It was no big deal.
posted by jb at 7:33 PM on October 10, 2023
But just to speak to the tallit issue: in my community, it's the tzitzit (the cords) that are significant. The tallit is just cloth, but it becomes special, even sacred cloth once the tzitzit are added. We happily ask non-Jews to wear a kippah when attending services, but we ask them to not wear a tallit. Only Jews of post-bnei mitzvah age are allowed to wear tzitzit.
That said, that only counts for real tzitzit. Something which looks like but aren't tzitzit - that doesn't matter. I dressed up as Motel from Fiddler for Purim one year, and I had strings attached just inside my trousers to imitate the tzitzit coming out from under my shirt. It was no big deal.
posted by jb at 7:33 PM on October 10, 2023
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If there was anything I would ever be offended by, it’s a production where the character turns into a broad caricature of a Jewish person, but that’s a different issue and presumably one you’re taking care to avoid.
posted by holborne at 10:45 AM on October 9, 2023 [4 favorites]