Choosing a HVAC system and installer

September 28, 2023 6:27 PM

We're replacing our ancient furnace and AC with a heat pump system soon. Should the brand of system sway the decision more than our experience with the prospective installers?

We have proposals from 2 local companies, and they're very similar. One installer has been great to work with and installs Carrier systems. One installer has just been okay to work with and installs Trane systems. If I were choosing based on the installers I'd go with the first one. But I'm reading better things online about Trane, including them getting a 5/5 from Consumer Reports vs 4/5 for Carrier. Before I did my research I assumed we'd go with the first, more pleasant to work with installer, but now I'm wondering: Should the brand of system sway the decision enough to go with the so-so installer? Both companies are pretty well-known local companies with similarly good reviews online, so while I like one company better I have no reason to think the second company would be truly bad, just slightly less good at customer service.

posted by Tehhund to Home & Garden (9 answers total)

I would look more closely at Consumer Reports and see why Carrier rated lower. Sometime they weight things differently than I would. So if the difference was something I didn't care out, then I would go with the better installer. But if it was something like reliability, I would opt for the Trane.
posted by metahawk at 6:35 PM on September 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

The CR heat pump brand reliability numbers come from responses to reader surveys rather than any specific testing methodology, so I wouldn't necessarily weight the CR ratings there as strongly as I would for things like appliances. Honestly, I'd pay more attention to the buyer's guide than the brand ratings and compare what you're hearing from the HVAC company with what they talk about there. Assuming the costs and warranties are similar and both companies recommend a unit that is correctly sized and spec'd for your home, I'd probably go with the one more pleasant to work with.
posted by Aleyn at 7:09 PM on September 28, 2023

I'd look very carefully at the installer, and also probably how widely-supported the brand is by other folks in the general area. My father had a geothermal/heat pump system installed about 10 years ago (more complex than just a heat-pump, of course). The installer mis-specified the pipe field and there have been several issues with leaks and etc that required months to resolve because the installer wouldn't make time to bring out specialized equipment to, for instance, flush leak-sealant through the pipe field, when, presumably, more lucrative new installations were on the table. Since the tech was pretty specialized, nobody else in the area could work on it either. Since you don't have the geothermal part to worry about, the annoyance/cost floor is probably less bad, but I'd still try to make sure you find an installer with a good rep for quality and supporting their work.
posted by Alterscape at 7:33 PM on September 28, 2023

Will it be one of the Mitsubishi Electric Tranes? Mitsubishi is pretty much regarded as the top dog in the inverter mini split market for a while, and probably has the best low-temp systems too. Not sure what kind of system you're looking at but if it's Mitsubishi that would be enough to convince me.
posted by pullayup at 7:37 PM on September 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Hi, friendly neighborhood HVAC guy here. Let me preface by saying that I do commercial work almost (but not quite) exclusively, but there’s some bit of overlap along with classes and general water cooler talk in supply houses, friends/acquaintances I know in the industry etc. I’ll also say I work for a Trane/American Standard dealer, but I have absolutely no brand loyalty except to quality.

Having started with that, the first thing I’ll say about a system (especially a system as finicky and temperamental as a heat pump) is that brand matters less than quality installation. The single most important factor about how well a system is going to work, is how well it is installed. A good, proper installation will begin with a manual j, heating cooling load calculation. If the installer isn’t doing this, they’re not doing it properly. Next, especially since your last system was “ancient”, you’re gonna need to make sure your ducts are sized properly, and there’s a pretty good chance they aren’t. If you can’t move enough air through them, it doesn’t matter whether you bought the most expensive, highest SEER, most communicatingest, modulatingest system in the world, it’s not gonna heat and cool properly. Heat pumps require more air movement than gas/propane heat. If the installers aren’t doing duct size calculations, they’re not doing it properly.

Once you’re sure that these crucial steps are done, then installation. There are so many ways an install can be done poorly, I’m not really going to go into it, but there are some questions that you should ask any prospective installer, and if they can’t answer immediately, DO NOT HIRE THEM:

1. Will you do a manual j? (Correct answer: yes; incorrect answer: literally anything else)

2. Is my existing ductwork sufficient to move enough air? How many CFM can it handle now, and what kinda cfm do I need to move for my new system?
3. Do you flow nitrogen while you braze? (Correct answer: yes; incorrect answer: literally anything else. Super incorrect answer: we don’t braze, we use press fittings/staybrite 8 solder—RUN FROM THIS PERSON)
4. How high a pressure do you test to? How low a vacuum do you pull, and how long do you hold it? (400 psi, 20 minutes minimum with no loss, 250 microns, 30 minutes minimum, decaying to no more than 500, although 300 would be better)

If they can’t answer these questions off the top of their head, DO NOT HIRE THEM.

And just because your question is about brands, fwiw for residential, I absolutely adore Rheem/Ruud products. By far my favorite residential brand, easy to work on, they last forever, and they’re well built. The only residential systems my (and lots of other companies) repair that use R22 are Rheems; every other R22 home system I recommend replacement or another company. Trane/American Standard do good stuff with residential as well, and Carrier is, ok, I suppose (their commercial units are hot garbage, but the residential stuff of theirs I’ve encountered is acceptable, although Carrier/Bryant/Payne have all had heat exchanger problems on newer units, which unless you’re going dual fuel (I have a Ruud dual fuel nat gas/heat pump system that is just the bees’ knees) you won’t have to worry about.

I hope this helps out, and feel free to ask anything if you have further questions.

Small edit to add: Stay far, far away from Lennox products. Their quality has been very poor for many years now, they’re absolute hell to work on, and getting OEM parts for them is laughably bad. I’ve been waiting for 9 months for a bog standard replacement motor for a standard sized rooftop unit. It’s Brazil levels of ridiculous trying to get OEM parts for Lennox units.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 8:08 PM on September 28, 2023 [45 favorites]

One more thing to add: I don’t know exactly how to research this, but in the past few years a lot of HVAC/mechanical companies have been getting bought out by private equity. Heartland, Sila, Goettl, and other groups are doing the vulture capitalism thing, cutting corners, maximizing margins, vacuuming up local/regional market share, and taking the “trade” out of the job. If the companies you’re looking at are owned by a private equity group (and I wish I knew a good way to figure that out, other than maybe a state dept of commerce search for the company owner?) the run away. For any number of reasons, but mainly because the work they do is trash. I would only deal with a locally, family or worker owned company; I’ve worked for one of the conglomerates and it was just the worst. Zero craftsmanship, and all focus on margins and squeezing every dime out of customers.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 8:53 PM on September 28, 2023 [8 favorites]

Will you do a manual j?

I believe this translates as: Will you do a heating/cooling load calculation as specified in the ANSI/ACCA Manual J Residential Load Calculation standard?
posted by zamboni at 5:43 AM on September 29, 2023 [1 favorite]

I often pick my vendor/installer/tech, and then follow their direction.

Whoever I am going to call when there is a problem, I don't want their first remark to be about how they never spec that particular system. When it's their favorite, they have the most experience to fall back on.

It's what I did for our tankless water heater in 2018, and our plumber has happily serviced the system they designed for us.

(As an IT guy, this is my advice when people ask me what to buy: "Who is going to support it? Ask them for their preference.")
posted by wenestvedt at 8:34 AM on September 29, 2023 [2 favorites]

Mod note: [btw, HVACDC_Bag's answer and this thread have been added to the sidebar and Best Of blog]
posted by taz (staff) at 2:26 AM on September 30, 2023 [2 favorites]