An interesting situation...cheating or not?
August 26, 2023 11:03 PM Subscribe
I am in a weird situation in my relationship due to an illness, blurred boundaries, and what constitutes cheating. I am curious to know the perspective of others on this situation.
So I feel as though my situation is a little bizarre. I was iatrogenically harmed by a medication in September 2022. This caused a massive immune and neurological response and completely changed my personality and I was essentially bedridden. If I could compare it to something, it is similar to being severely floxed.
During this time, I was incredibly hopeless and depressed due to my symptoms. I had to drop out of my Masters Program, could not socialize, could not work, could not think straight, could not do normal daily activities, etc. My fiancé ended up being my caregiver. I felt TERRIBLE for him because I went from being a vibrant woman with endless energy to disabled. I offered him the opportunity for us to be in an open relationship or for him to cheat. This was done out of guilt as I could not be a good partner due to my illness. He refused and told me that he is not interested in that.
On NYE, he ended up getting extremely drunk and high on MDMA and was chatting with a woman for a while. He told me they went into a spare bedroom to “crash” and shared a few kisses before passing out and not taking it further. He told me IMMEDIATELY after coming home early that morning. I would have not known otherwise. He told me with tears in his eyes and was extremely apologetic. At the time of disclosure, I did not care AT ALL. I was too ill to care.
In February, I started getting better. By April, I was 50% improved. At the rate I’m going at, I am expecting a full recovery by 2024. From September 2022 until now, my partner has taken care of me entirely. The only thing is, I cannot seem to shake the fact that he cheated. I take solace in the fact that I gave him permission to, but I’m also annoyed that he refused my offer and only took me up on it when the opportunity presented itself. I also contacted the woman he cheated with. I found her on Facebook and she corroborated his story (only kissing, nothing else). However, now that my brain function has returned significantly (still not 100%), my mind is running wild and I’m paranoid. What if they actually had sex? I keep reading about trickle truths, but my partner maintains his story. I also contacted the woman without him knowing.
I love my fiancé a lot and wish that I never planted the seed that he could cheat. I know he regrets it. I would like to move past this. Is there anyone in a similar situation that can offer advice? Im looking for couples who were under stress due to illness (caregiver spouses). I’m having trouble being intimate because I keep picturing him with another person. We do plan on counselling. For context, I am 31 and he is 39.
So I feel as though my situation is a little bizarre. I was iatrogenically harmed by a medication in September 2022. This caused a massive immune and neurological response and completely changed my personality and I was essentially bedridden. If I could compare it to something, it is similar to being severely floxed.
During this time, I was incredibly hopeless and depressed due to my symptoms. I had to drop out of my Masters Program, could not socialize, could not work, could not think straight, could not do normal daily activities, etc. My fiancé ended up being my caregiver. I felt TERRIBLE for him because I went from being a vibrant woman with endless energy to disabled. I offered him the opportunity for us to be in an open relationship or for him to cheat. This was done out of guilt as I could not be a good partner due to my illness. He refused and told me that he is not interested in that.
On NYE, he ended up getting extremely drunk and high on MDMA and was chatting with a woman for a while. He told me they went into a spare bedroom to “crash” and shared a few kisses before passing out and not taking it further. He told me IMMEDIATELY after coming home early that morning. I would have not known otherwise. He told me with tears in his eyes and was extremely apologetic. At the time of disclosure, I did not care AT ALL. I was too ill to care.
In February, I started getting better. By April, I was 50% improved. At the rate I’m going at, I am expecting a full recovery by 2024. From September 2022 until now, my partner has taken care of me entirely. The only thing is, I cannot seem to shake the fact that he cheated. I take solace in the fact that I gave him permission to, but I’m also annoyed that he refused my offer and only took me up on it when the opportunity presented itself. I also contacted the woman he cheated with. I found her on Facebook and she corroborated his story (only kissing, nothing else). However, now that my brain function has returned significantly (still not 100%), my mind is running wild and I’m paranoid. What if they actually had sex? I keep reading about trickle truths, but my partner maintains his story. I also contacted the woman without him knowing.
I love my fiancé a lot and wish that I never planted the seed that he could cheat. I know he regrets it. I would like to move past this. Is there anyone in a similar situation that can offer advice? Im looking for couples who were under stress due to illness (caregiver spouses). I’m having trouble being intimate because I keep picturing him with another person. We do plan on counselling. For context, I am 31 and he is 39.
This sounds like something you latched on to because of anxiety, and if this particular event hadn't happened, you'd be fixating and ruminating about something else
That's not to say that you don't have a valid reason to be worried or unhappy with your partner, I can't judge that aspect at all.
It's more that to this Internet stranger, it sounds as if right now, you have really painful and confusing brain stuff going on as your psyche tries to heal and find balance.
I'm *not* saying you can't trust your gut. Or that it's just the anxiety talking.
But I think you should try to set aside this specific issue while you work on regaining emotional balance and reduce your anxiety till the rumination and crisis feelings feel more under control.
I'm so sorry that this medical harm happened to you, it sounds incredibly scary and isolating.
posted by Zumbador at 11:21 PM on August 26, 2023 [26 favorites]
That's not to say that you don't have a valid reason to be worried or unhappy with your partner, I can't judge that aspect at all.
It's more that to this Internet stranger, it sounds as if right now, you have really painful and confusing brain stuff going on as your psyche tries to heal and find balance.
I'm *not* saying you can't trust your gut. Or that it's just the anxiety talking.
But I think you should try to set aside this specific issue while you work on regaining emotional balance and reduce your anxiety till the rumination and crisis feelings feel more under control.
I'm so sorry that this medical harm happened to you, it sounds incredibly scary and isolating.
posted by Zumbador at 11:21 PM on August 26, 2023 [26 favorites]
I think you should wait to address this until you feel your brain function is 100%. This is a difficult and delicate issue to negotiate, and you don't want to look back and ask yourself later why you even did what you did (as you may well when you remember contacting the woman--no more of that! Block her!).
I hope you recover quickly and can find a way forward with your fiance.
posted by praemunire at 11:28 PM on August 26, 2023 [24 favorites]
I hope you recover quickly and can find a way forward with your fiance.
posted by praemunire at 11:28 PM on August 26, 2023 [24 favorites]
To me, this sounds more like stress and bad communication than a traditional cheating situation.
It might help if you could figure out what concerns you about this specifically: honesty concerns, future fidelity concerns, jealousy and intrusive thoughts, or ???
I also agree with the commenters saying that your brain may have been thrown for a loop by your recent experiences and to try and not make big decisions until everything has settled down a bit, health wise.
Hope you’re feeling much better soon.
posted by hungrytiger at 12:41 AM on August 27, 2023
It might help if you could figure out what concerns you about this specifically: honesty concerns, future fidelity concerns, jealousy and intrusive thoughts, or ???
I also agree with the commenters saying that your brain may have been thrown for a loop by your recent experiences and to try and not make big decisions until everything has settled down a bit, health wise.
Hope you’re feeling much better soon.
posted by hungrytiger at 12:41 AM on August 27, 2023
Your description of your mental processes sounds intensely like this is something you need to work on yourself, solo, first. It is extremely close to how I would describe intrusive or obsessive thoughts that I get, which are grounded in my own mental processes and not actually reality. Just read your own description: you have no reason to believe there was more, you have done a reasonable or possibly even extreme level of verifying there was no more, he was distressed about it, AND YET you can't get the images of what COULD have happened out of your head - what do you expect him to do differently to get those images gone?
He doesn't control your subconscious feeding you these images, and making it his responsibility to stop your intrusive thoughts is not going to succeed. I'm sorry! I've been through that road of "but I'm still thinking about X so we should do more to fix X" enough times, and if it's new to you it's not surprising you'd be taking it at surface value and trusting "if I'm worried about him it's because he's being suspicious".
But here's a different story: maybe you're worried about him because you've already lost so much and it's just starting to look like you might get your life back, but now you're feeling like you could have lost him *too*, and still could, and at one point you would have allowed it to happen - and now you look back in horror. The same way he looked back in horror after kissing some woman, and broke down to you because he suddenly KNEW he did not want that.
And probably all the things you DID lose are getting emotionally stacked up on this one incident - an incident where your partner did NOT leave you, and did not have an affair - and making it feel like this is the one thing that will solve it all.
Sorry, wall of text. TLDR: individual therapy. Please. You've been through so much and now your body is ready to process it, and it's going to be (already is) A Lot.
posted by Lady Li at 12:45 AM on August 27, 2023 [33 favorites]
He doesn't control your subconscious feeding you these images, and making it his responsibility to stop your intrusive thoughts is not going to succeed. I'm sorry! I've been through that road of "but I'm still thinking about X so we should do more to fix X" enough times, and if it's new to you it's not surprising you'd be taking it at surface value and trusting "if I'm worried about him it's because he's being suspicious".
But here's a different story: maybe you're worried about him because you've already lost so much and it's just starting to look like you might get your life back, but now you're feeling like you could have lost him *too*, and still could, and at one point you would have allowed it to happen - and now you look back in horror. The same way he looked back in horror after kissing some woman, and broke down to you because he suddenly KNEW he did not want that.
And probably all the things you DID lose are getting emotionally stacked up on this one incident - an incident where your partner did NOT leave you, and did not have an affair - and making it feel like this is the one thing that will solve it all.
Sorry, wall of text. TLDR: individual therapy. Please. You've been through so much and now your body is ready to process it, and it's going to be (already is) A Lot.
posted by Lady Li at 12:45 AM on August 27, 2023 [33 favorites]
You’re in complete control of whether you want to call this “cheating”. I think you’ll both be happier if you decide that it wasn’t.
posted by rd45 at 1:21 AM on August 27, 2023 [68 favorites]
posted by rd45 at 1:21 AM on August 27, 2023 [68 favorites]
He doesn't control your subconscious feeding you these images, and making it his responsibility to stop your intrusive thoughts is not going to succeed.
This, a hundred times.
Also: the essence of cheating is deception. Your fiance took one step toward intimacy with somebody else, which was something that you had explicitly and specifically told him you were OK with, and then did the opposite of deceiving you. When he kissed that woman, he was under the influence of chemicals that make not behaving the way he did quite difficult. When you gave him permission to, you were under extreme physical and emotional stress that made continuing to respect your own boundaries about equally difficult.
That he has taken on a caregiving role for you says more about who he is than one partial failure to stay exclusive with intimacy.
So perhaps you could begin by challenging and editing the words you use internally to refer to this episode: whenever you catch yourself thinking of it as "cheating", deliberately re-run the same thought with the words "forgivable fuckup" substituted instead and see how you feel about that.
Simple fact is that with the best will in the world, people in loving committed relationships will fuck up from time to time, especially when circumstances get emotionally fraught. A huge part of keeping a loving relationship in good shape is for both participants to learn the art of rapid and genuine forgiveness for any fuckup that falls short of breaking a solemn promise. What that does is make space for learning from those fuckups, thereby making them less likely to recur.
Given what's happened, he's now less likely to ruin his self-control with empathogens while emotionally vulnerable, and you're now less likely to ride roughshod over your own boundaries while badly ill. These are both good things that will help your relationship going forward, if you can both find your way to letting them.
posted by flabdablet at 1:40 AM on August 27, 2023 [47 favorites]
This, a hundred times.
Also: the essence of cheating is deception. Your fiance took one step toward intimacy with somebody else, which was something that you had explicitly and specifically told him you were OK with, and then did the opposite of deceiving you. When he kissed that woman, he was under the influence of chemicals that make not behaving the way he did quite difficult. When you gave him permission to, you were under extreme physical and emotional stress that made continuing to respect your own boundaries about equally difficult.
That he has taken on a caregiving role for you says more about who he is than one partial failure to stay exclusive with intimacy.
So perhaps you could begin by challenging and editing the words you use internally to refer to this episode: whenever you catch yourself thinking of it as "cheating", deliberately re-run the same thought with the words "forgivable fuckup" substituted instead and see how you feel about that.
Simple fact is that with the best will in the world, people in loving committed relationships will fuck up from time to time, especially when circumstances get emotionally fraught. A huge part of keeping a loving relationship in good shape is for both participants to learn the art of rapid and genuine forgiveness for any fuckup that falls short of breaking a solemn promise. What that does is make space for learning from those fuckups, thereby making them less likely to recur.
Given what's happened, he's now less likely to ruin his self-control with empathogens while emotionally vulnerable, and you're now less likely to ride roughshod over your own boundaries while badly ill. These are both good things that will help your relationship going forward, if you can both find your way to letting them.
posted by flabdablet at 1:40 AM on August 27, 2023 [47 favorites]
Your partner did an extremely human thing and afterward was honest about it. You have been dealing with hard and horrifying things for truly long time. So has your partner, although in a different way. Whatever is going on, it is absolutely not about cheating. And a label is not gonna fix it. Agree with others who have suggested individual therapy and, ideally, ASAP. I have had intrusive thoughts and fixations and they are no fucking fun. Best of luck in getting this issue resolved in a healthy way.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:30 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 2:30 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
You didn’t experience it as cheating at the time, and I think that’s an extremely important fact that you should ruminate on. Trust how it actually felt to you in the moment! I think your current reaction is about how you would feel about that going forward and that’s completely valid. You get to have changing boundaries and feelings and communicate those changes. But those changes don’t impact the past, and it messes up your brain when you start retroactively applying things.
I have had similar experiences. I have a long term disability that means sometimes my brain is terrible and then it improves back to a baseline. There is a period where my brain is starting to do better and it hits this magical threshold where it’s working better enough that I start to have more capacity and I don’t yet have enough capacity to direct that capacity. I end up ruminating on things a lot. I have started to recognize this period and understand that I am going to be kinda out of my mind and that I will absolutely ruin and sabotage all my relationships if I don’t just ride out the waves of anger and frustration. I have a theory that I am feeling angry and frustrated at myself but that’s more than I can handle and I can also rationalize that it’s useless to be angry at myself for having been more disabled, as it wasn’t something I chose. But that anger is still there and I end up feeling it towards whatever my brain latches on to. And while I am better enough that my brain *feels* more trustworthy, in fact I am only better enough that my brain can trick me into thinking it’s trustworthy. It is still full of foggy lies, they’re just extremely personally convincing.
So, I would counsel you to remember that it didn’t feel bad at the time. That it felt like you had a partner who could be trusted to tell you hard truths. And that it’s OK for you not to want something to happen again WITHOUT making the past a huge betrayal. I think there’s a cultural message that you have to be super mad in order to justify feeling like “yeah let’s not do that again.” Whereas, you can have been fine with it, and still not want it to happen again. Those are not contradictory emotions.
posted by Bottlecap at 3:00 AM on August 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
I have had similar experiences. I have a long term disability that means sometimes my brain is terrible and then it improves back to a baseline. There is a period where my brain is starting to do better and it hits this magical threshold where it’s working better enough that I start to have more capacity and I don’t yet have enough capacity to direct that capacity. I end up ruminating on things a lot. I have started to recognize this period and understand that I am going to be kinda out of my mind and that I will absolutely ruin and sabotage all my relationships if I don’t just ride out the waves of anger and frustration. I have a theory that I am feeling angry and frustrated at myself but that’s more than I can handle and I can also rationalize that it’s useless to be angry at myself for having been more disabled, as it wasn’t something I chose. But that anger is still there and I end up feeling it towards whatever my brain latches on to. And while I am better enough that my brain *feels* more trustworthy, in fact I am only better enough that my brain can trick me into thinking it’s trustworthy. It is still full of foggy lies, they’re just extremely personally convincing.
So, I would counsel you to remember that it didn’t feel bad at the time. That it felt like you had a partner who could be trusted to tell you hard truths. And that it’s OK for you not to want something to happen again WITHOUT making the past a huge betrayal. I think there’s a cultural message that you have to be super mad in order to justify feeling like “yeah let’s not do that again.” Whereas, you can have been fine with it, and still not want it to happen again. Those are not contradictory emotions.
posted by Bottlecap at 3:00 AM on August 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
I’m confused. You gave him permission to do something, he did it, and now you’re retroactively retracting permission because, when you first gave him permission, he said he wasn’t going to take advantage of it? If you come over to my house and I offer you a drink, and you’re not thirsty at the time, but two hours later you get a bottle of water, I can’t be mad about that.
posted by kevinbelt at 5:11 AM on August 27, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 5:11 AM on August 27, 2023 [13 favorites]
he refused my offer and only took me up on it when the opportunity presented itself
I mean… was the expectation that if he had accepted the offer he would immediately go out and solicit a stranger? “…if and when the opportunity presents itself” sort of feels like a tacit part of such an offer.
posted by staggernation at 5:29 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
I mean… was the expectation that if he had accepted the offer he would immediately go out and solicit a stranger? “…if and when the opportunity presents itself” sort of feels like a tacit part of such an offer.
posted by staggernation at 5:29 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
I’m not disagreeing with anyone else but I’m popping in to say it definitely sucks to know your partner kissed someone else, even if you thought you were cool with it in theory.
This is a tough thing, not a minor thing, even if you weren’t sick. It sounds like you were unable to process the totally normal feelings of jealousy and fear at the time, and now that you have the wherewithal, you’re processing it all at once.
Moreover, it sounds like you’re saying that you only actually gave him permission under duress and that the “real” you wouldn’t have done so. And now that the real you is emerging you’re naturally like wtf. That’s so hard!
Anyway, just validating that this is hard and that you need some support in dealing with it. I don’t think it’s out of line to involve your partner in the repair part as long as you acknowledge that it’s about repair, and not blame.
posted by kapers at 6:03 AM on August 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is a tough thing, not a minor thing, even if you weren’t sick. It sounds like you were unable to process the totally normal feelings of jealousy and fear at the time, and now that you have the wherewithal, you’re processing it all at once.
Moreover, it sounds like you’re saying that you only actually gave him permission under duress and that the “real” you wouldn’t have done so. And now that the real you is emerging you’re naturally like wtf. That’s so hard!
Anyway, just validating that this is hard and that you need some support in dealing with it. I don’t think it’s out of line to involve your partner in the repair part as long as you acknowledge that it’s about repair, and not blame.
posted by kapers at 6:03 AM on August 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
You can’t consent when you’re high and drunk. So however y’all end up framing this in your relationship, you can’t consent when you’re impaired. (And even drunk and high on molly at the same time, ye gods and little fishies my liver, he found the brakes). If it helps at all to consider that, then there’s that.
Y’all have had such a hard time. This is exactly what couples counseling and individual counseling is for.
posted by joycehealy at 6:40 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Y’all have had such a hard time. This is exactly what couples counseling and individual counseling is for.
posted by joycehealy at 6:40 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
This seems like a situation where you thought you would be fine with something, but now on reflection and having recovered more of yourself, you are not at all fine with it and would not be fine with it in future.
If you want to continue the relationship then I think you need to make peace with this by yourself, because it is not your partner's fault. He didn't betray you. That doesn't mean you have to be fine with it immediately.
posted by plonkee at 6:42 AM on August 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
If you want to continue the relationship then I think you need to make peace with this by yourself, because it is not your partner's fault. He didn't betray you. That doesn't mean you have to be fine with it immediately.
posted by plonkee at 6:42 AM on August 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
I want to reiterate a few things that have been said for emphasis:
1. The main part of cheating is deception, and there doesn’t seem to be deception here.
2. It’s OK to feel bad about a situation you thought you would feel OK about, it’s pretty common for that to lead to intrusive thoughts. Practicing reframing your perspective on this is a good way to help lessen those intrusions.
3. Block that other woman and don’t reach out to her.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:22 AM on August 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
1. The main part of cheating is deception, and there doesn’t seem to be deception here.
2. It’s OK to feel bad about a situation you thought you would feel OK about, it’s pretty common for that to lead to intrusive thoughts. Practicing reframing your perspective on this is a good way to help lessen those intrusions.
3. Block that other woman and don’t reach out to her.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:22 AM on August 27, 2023 [11 favorites]
It is common enough to be something of a trope or meme that someone will give a partner a "pass" and then be surprised to find themselves unhappily affected when it is used. The head and the heart are different countries. Even people with long and thoughtful experience in polyamory have moments of "what if this changes everything/what if this takes away a thing that is important to me", jealousy, anxiety, sadness, and fear for the stability of their relationship.
In other words, what you're feeling is really common. It's also manageable and resolvable.
But while you can decide you regret the agreement now, your partner believed you in good faith at the time, and acted in a pretty fair way (though some of the open relationships I know have a "discuss first" policy, which the situation you describe could have violated depending on the specific negotiation about how "far" one can go without discussion). You have Subsequent Feelings but they're not his fault (and it would appear he too does not think this was a great experiment), and while you should work with him to some extent as you work through it for yourself, framing this as "he cheated" instead of "whoops it turns out that feels like cheating to me/us" isn't fair - or helpful.
I do also think you should consider that you're still recovering from a serious illness that affected cognition, and that you may be perseverating and paranoid because of your brain's current operating state, and in a few more months from now you may hardly care about it, or at least have a very different perspective.
You should go to counseling yourself first and work through the overall situation before going to couples counseling to improve your communication. You are carrying a heavy burden of guilt, plus the trauma of a serious illness, and you can't really separate this one incident from those things. You deserve support and help building your toolbox of coping and processing skills.
But also, if you're just looking for permission to let this go, or at least table it a while longer to focus on your recovery, you have mine. You tried something that didn't work for you, your partner seems to have shown great integrity in a complicated situation. It happens, it's not really anybody fault - we can't know what we don't know. Be gentle with yourself.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:34 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
In other words, what you're feeling is really common. It's also manageable and resolvable.
But while you can decide you regret the agreement now, your partner believed you in good faith at the time, and acted in a pretty fair way (though some of the open relationships I know have a "discuss first" policy, which the situation you describe could have violated depending on the specific negotiation about how "far" one can go without discussion). You have Subsequent Feelings but they're not his fault (and it would appear he too does not think this was a great experiment), and while you should work with him to some extent as you work through it for yourself, framing this as "he cheated" instead of "whoops it turns out that feels like cheating to me/us" isn't fair - or helpful.
I do also think you should consider that you're still recovering from a serious illness that affected cognition, and that you may be perseverating and paranoid because of your brain's current operating state, and in a few more months from now you may hardly care about it, or at least have a very different perspective.
You should go to counseling yourself first and work through the overall situation before going to couples counseling to improve your communication. You are carrying a heavy burden of guilt, plus the trauma of a serious illness, and you can't really separate this one incident from those things. You deserve support and help building your toolbox of coping and processing skills.
But also, if you're just looking for permission to let this go, or at least table it a while longer to focus on your recovery, you have mine. You tried something that didn't work for you, your partner seems to have shown great integrity in a complicated situation. It happens, it's not really anybody fault - we can't know what we don't know. Be gentle with yourself.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:34 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
I wouldn’t see this as cheating, but that doesn’t mean you can’t feel hurt and sad and unsure how to proceed. You gave your partner permission to do something, now that it’s happened you feel worse about it than you thought you would, and that’s a really normal experience to have in *any* experimentation with loosening the rules of monogamy a bit, even in a situation less fraught than yours.
I don’t think you need to do anything except start that counseling and continue giving yourself time to process. I do think you need to tell him that you contacted this woman, but that it can wait until you’ve established a therapeutic relationship to help you two communicate about all of this.
posted by Stacey at 8:22 AM on August 27, 2023
I don’t think you need to do anything except start that counseling and continue giving yourself time to process. I do think you need to tell him that you contacted this woman, but that it can wait until you’ve established a therapeutic relationship to help you two communicate about all of this.
posted by Stacey at 8:22 AM on August 27, 2023
Firstly, I agree with the other commenters recommending counseling, and I would urge you to get individual *and* both of you to get couples' counseling. Besides that:
I'm a little confused by how you're using the word "cheat". In the first place, you say you gave him permission to cheat, which doesn't exactly make sense. Once permission is given, by definition, it's no longer cheating. Perhaps you mean you gave him permission to have sex with other people.
So then, from a contractual viewpoint, the question is whether this permission expired after it was offered. Since he said he wasn't interested, it's a little vague, but at any rate you didn't explicitly revoke this offer and also there was only a couple months between this conversation and when he was intimate with another person, which he notified you of immediately afterwards.
Personally, I wouldn't call this cheating, and I think most sex-positive people would not call this cheating. Words have an impact and I think that if you stop using the label "cheating", which doesn't really seem to apply to this situation, you might find a different attitude to your partner and your relationship with him.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:45 AM on August 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm a little confused by how you're using the word "cheat". In the first place, you say you gave him permission to cheat, which doesn't exactly make sense. Once permission is given, by definition, it's no longer cheating. Perhaps you mean you gave him permission to have sex with other people.
So then, from a contractual viewpoint, the question is whether this permission expired after it was offered. Since he said he wasn't interested, it's a little vague, but at any rate you didn't explicitly revoke this offer and also there was only a couple months between this conversation and when he was intimate with another person, which he notified you of immediately afterwards.
Personally, I wouldn't call this cheating, and I think most sex-positive people would not call this cheating. Words have an impact and I think that if you stop using the label "cheating", which doesn't really seem to apply to this situation, you might find a different attitude to your partner and your relationship with him.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:45 AM on August 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Just one point of view: I don't think it matters or not whether you gave him permission, you have to deal with the fact that he made the choice to become sexually involved with someone else. That's going to hurt no matter what. I think you might do better to deal with the complicated feelings that happen when a lover looks elsewhere before you decide whether this is a relationship killer or not.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:09 AM on August 27, 2023
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:09 AM on August 27, 2023
You have been through a rough stretch. It will take quite a while to organize the time you've spent as an invalid into a working narrative. Pay attention to your recovery.
Don't contact the other woman again. She won't help you with your issues.
I agree with others in the thread that "cheating" involves deception, No need to parse this idea out to infinity. It seems to be okay to take your partner's word for now because his feet seem to be pointing in the right direction. Put the word "cheating" on hold on hold.
The disturbing images you write about are probably brief, detailed, and vivid. I understand this from a personal perspective. They are not your partner's fault, so, for the time being, it would serve no purpose to discuss them with him, except to say that you have regrets about opening the relationship and that your intentions were to make life a bit easier for him. Now you are sorry you told him that. This is where the rub comes in. You didn't (were not able to) think it through. This line of communication is navigable, but it takes both of you to do it.
In my experience (I'm an old fart, chasing eighty) these images were stinging regrets that I wasn't able to be "that guy," This has no rational base. It comes from somewhere deep and dark. These images portray worst-case scenes accompanied by a crescendo of emotion--a wall of pain--that reflects the degree to which you are upset.
So, if counseling is in your future, take this to the counselor as one of the things you are working through as you begin to heal. You can shake the skeletons out of your closet without your partner's help. You can work together to redefine your relationship as you heal.
Plan ahead, think about next year. Think about next month. Get through the night.
I wish you the best.
posted by mule98J at 9:11 AM on August 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Don't contact the other woman again. She won't help you with your issues.
I agree with others in the thread that "cheating" involves deception, No need to parse this idea out to infinity. It seems to be okay to take your partner's word for now because his feet seem to be pointing in the right direction. Put the word "cheating" on hold on hold.
The disturbing images you write about are probably brief, detailed, and vivid. I understand this from a personal perspective. They are not your partner's fault, so, for the time being, it would serve no purpose to discuss them with him, except to say that you have regrets about opening the relationship and that your intentions were to make life a bit easier for him. Now you are sorry you told him that. This is where the rub comes in. You didn't (were not able to) think it through. This line of communication is navigable, but it takes both of you to do it.
In my experience (I'm an old fart, chasing eighty) these images were stinging regrets that I wasn't able to be "that guy," This has no rational base. It comes from somewhere deep and dark. These images portray worst-case scenes accompanied by a crescendo of emotion--a wall of pain--that reflects the degree to which you are upset.
So, if counseling is in your future, take this to the counselor as one of the things you are working through as you begin to heal. You can shake the skeletons out of your closet without your partner's help. You can work together to redefine your relationship as you heal.
Plan ahead, think about next year. Think about next month. Get through the night.
I wish you the best.
posted by mule98J at 9:11 AM on August 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've been bedridden since 2007 because of severe ME. Spouse is my caregiver.
I'm not saying this is you, but in my experience as a Very Sick Person with little control over my life, my brain likes to pick old memories to live inside or what controllable situations I do have to perseverate on so I don't have to constantly be present with the reality of being terribly sick.
In a situation like the one you're in where you feel like you do have or should have control over something, focusing repeatedly on that might be more pleasant/feel more useful or actionable than sitting with your body and the uncertainty of when/if you'll improve.
posted by jocelmeow at 9:29 AM on August 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm not saying this is you, but in my experience as a Very Sick Person with little control over my life, my brain likes to pick old memories to live inside or what controllable situations I do have to perseverate on so I don't have to constantly be present with the reality of being terribly sick.
In a situation like the one you're in where you feel like you do have or should have control over something, focusing repeatedly on that might be more pleasant/feel more useful or actionable than sitting with your body and the uncertainty of when/if you'll improve.
posted by jocelmeow at 9:29 AM on August 27, 2023 [6 favorites]
Old saying, from a favorite author:
"Who cares where a man has lunch, so, long as he comes home for dinner!".
Please. Don't obsess on fidelity. Love multiplies, it should never divide!
posted by Goofyy at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2023
"Who cares where a man has lunch, so, long as he comes home for dinner!".
Please. Don't obsess on fidelity. Love multiplies, it should never divide!
posted by Goofyy at 9:34 AM on August 27, 2023
That he has taken on a caregiving role for you says more about who he is than one partial failure to stay exclusive with intimacy.
Quoted for truth. I also wouldn't consider this cheating, and agree with those suggesting that what happened to the woman is a bit of a red herring. What will hopefully be helpful from couples counseling is to figure out together how your sudden and severe illness impacted your relationship. I am not a therapist, but that sounds easily traumatic for you both, and something that a professional would be really helpful for in terms of processing. Best of luck, with this and your recovery.
posted by coffeecat at 9:39 AM on August 27, 2023
Quoted for truth. I also wouldn't consider this cheating, and agree with those suggesting that what happened to the woman is a bit of a red herring. What will hopefully be helpful from couples counseling is to figure out together how your sudden and severe illness impacted your relationship. I am not a therapist, but that sounds easily traumatic for you both, and something that a professional would be really helpful for in terms of processing. Best of luck, with this and your recovery.
posted by coffeecat at 9:39 AM on August 27, 2023
Are you holding onto self-judgment over getting sick?
Are you holding onto self-judgment for suggesting an open relationship?
Is there a thought in your mind that if you hadn’t suggested the open relationship/permissible cheating, that the NYE make out would have happened anyway?
Is the substance use aspect of the encounter something that is factoring into your feelings about it?
Agree that individual therapy will be helpful for dealing with the intrusive thoughts part of this, and also sorting out the actions and feelings of your past-self.
This is a hard situation. You’ve both been through the emotional natural disaster of your illness. But from what you’ve written there’s still so much room for both of you to be on Team Us and rebuild together.
posted by itesser at 9:45 AM on August 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Are you holding onto self-judgment for suggesting an open relationship?
Is there a thought in your mind that if you hadn’t suggested the open relationship/permissible cheating, that the NYE make out would have happened anyway?
Is the substance use aspect of the encounter something that is factoring into your feelings about it?
Agree that individual therapy will be helpful for dealing with the intrusive thoughts part of this, and also sorting out the actions and feelings of your past-self.
This is a hard situation. You’ve both been through the emotional natural disaster of your illness. But from what you’ve written there’s still so much room for both of you to be on Team Us and rebuild together.
posted by itesser at 9:45 AM on August 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
Sounds to me like, for some reason, you want to ditch your partner or to spend time being angry at him and holding him responsible for your anger.
Right now being upset that he kissed a woman is outweighing all the care taking he did and the loyalty he showed to you. A lot of people would be feeling really grateful and bonded-for-life and understanding of his need for comfort and all that kind of stuff. But you are not. A good question to ask is why not.
There is no right or wrong way to feel, but for whatever reason you are feeling insecure and hurt as a strong emotion that is looking for action.
Maybe you want to break up with him to distance yourself from the trauma of your illness. Maybe you feel far too much in debt to him, and don't want to feel under such deep obligation. Maybe you feel that you've taken so much from him that he is inevitably going to dump you as a burden and are per-emptively angling to dump him. Or maybe you are just the kind of person who considers that partners should never ever ever look at another person and if they do it's over. It's okay if those are what is going on and it is okay if you think him kissing that woman is good enough grounds for breaking up. It's not okay that you are hurting so much, but only because hurting is miserable. You are under no obligation to feel the way theoretical other people might feel in your situation.
You might want to privately run some scenarios in your head and see what response feelings they trigger. What if you dump him because you can't love him anymore after he did this? Relief? Still hurt? Guilt? Overwhelming terror of losing him? How you react to the fantasy of breaking up with him, or tearing a strip off him and making him grovel to stay with you could help you figure out why this is so emotionally loaded.
Another scenario to explore is what if he actually had all the way sex with another person and a full scale emotional affair while he was nursing you and supporting you? How would you feel about that? If the idea of him having found a real relationship on the side makes your feelings change there may be some clues.
Also, you could be trying to punish him, because he has asked you to treat it like a terrible, unforgivable thing. If that is going on, either you are over reacting to the kissing incident because he over reacted to it, or you could be trying to give him the out you secretly believe he wants. What if he kissed the woman and then told on himself because he was hoping that you would split up with him? If you had told him to get lost that day it would have let him escape from the burden of caretaking without having to be the guy who dumped you for being an invalid, just when you needed him, and yet who still wasn't that much of a bad guy because all he did was a few kisses. Maybe you have strong feelings because you recognized there is some sub-text.
Feelings are really complex. Another possibility is that you can't look at him a sexy romantic partner anymore after being sick around him, because you have lost the sexual spark and don't feel sexually desirable - he held your hair while you puked? How could he kiss you after that! Or he's now too much of a doormat and you only feel attracted to guys you have to pursue a little bit. It could even be that you are past the three year of limerance point, and you want to break up with him because it is time and your natural rhythm is for serial monogamy.
But dwelling on how bad a sin he committed is probably not productive. For some people it was no sin, for others it was unforgivable - the difference is how the different people in your situation feel. So look at your feelings, not the ethics.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:22 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
Right now being upset that he kissed a woman is outweighing all the care taking he did and the loyalty he showed to you. A lot of people would be feeling really grateful and bonded-for-life and understanding of his need for comfort and all that kind of stuff. But you are not. A good question to ask is why not.
There is no right or wrong way to feel, but for whatever reason you are feeling insecure and hurt as a strong emotion that is looking for action.
Maybe you want to break up with him to distance yourself from the trauma of your illness. Maybe you feel far too much in debt to him, and don't want to feel under such deep obligation. Maybe you feel that you've taken so much from him that he is inevitably going to dump you as a burden and are per-emptively angling to dump him. Or maybe you are just the kind of person who considers that partners should never ever ever look at another person and if they do it's over. It's okay if those are what is going on and it is okay if you think him kissing that woman is good enough grounds for breaking up. It's not okay that you are hurting so much, but only because hurting is miserable. You are under no obligation to feel the way theoretical other people might feel in your situation.
You might want to privately run some scenarios in your head and see what response feelings they trigger. What if you dump him because you can't love him anymore after he did this? Relief? Still hurt? Guilt? Overwhelming terror of losing him? How you react to the fantasy of breaking up with him, or tearing a strip off him and making him grovel to stay with you could help you figure out why this is so emotionally loaded.
Another scenario to explore is what if he actually had all the way sex with another person and a full scale emotional affair while he was nursing you and supporting you? How would you feel about that? If the idea of him having found a real relationship on the side makes your feelings change there may be some clues.
Also, you could be trying to punish him, because he has asked you to treat it like a terrible, unforgivable thing. If that is going on, either you are over reacting to the kissing incident because he over reacted to it, or you could be trying to give him the out you secretly believe he wants. What if he kissed the woman and then told on himself because he was hoping that you would split up with him? If you had told him to get lost that day it would have let him escape from the burden of caretaking without having to be the guy who dumped you for being an invalid, just when you needed him, and yet who still wasn't that much of a bad guy because all he did was a few kisses. Maybe you have strong feelings because you recognized there is some sub-text.
Feelings are really complex. Another possibility is that you can't look at him a sexy romantic partner anymore after being sick around him, because you have lost the sexual spark and don't feel sexually desirable - he held your hair while you puked? How could he kiss you after that! Or he's now too much of a doormat and you only feel attracted to guys you have to pursue a little bit. It could even be that you are past the three year of limerance point, and you want to break up with him because it is time and your natural rhythm is for serial monogamy.
But dwelling on how bad a sin he committed is probably not productive. For some people it was no sin, for others it was unforgivable - the difference is how the different people in your situation feel. So look at your feelings, not the ethics.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:22 AM on August 27, 2023 [8 favorites]
You were terribly ill when you offered him an open relationship; you didn't mean it.
He was drunk and high when he kissed her; he didn't mean it.
Neither of you were capable of thinking clearly in these situations.
Some relationships don't survive after one partner falls sick and the other becomes a caregiver, even if the illness is temporary. The power dynamics shift too much.
I also think you and your boyfriend would benefit from counseling. OP, he disclosed soon after the incident, and you were too sick to even process it. Later on, you found the woman online, contacted her to corroborate his version of the chemically-influenced lapse on NYE, and have kept your actions from him. I think you need to disclose that, perhaps in a joint counseling session, and in the context of "ruminating is becoming overwhelming," before more time passes.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:06 PM on August 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
He was drunk and high when he kissed her; he didn't mean it.
Neither of you were capable of thinking clearly in these situations.
Some relationships don't survive after one partner falls sick and the other becomes a caregiver, even if the illness is temporary. The power dynamics shift too much.
I also think you and your boyfriend would benefit from counseling. OP, he disclosed soon after the incident, and you were too sick to even process it. Later on, you found the woman online, contacted her to corroborate his version of the chemically-influenced lapse on NYE, and have kept your actions from him. I think you need to disclose that, perhaps in a joint counseling session, and in the context of "ruminating is becoming overwhelming," before more time passes.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:06 PM on August 27, 2023 [3 favorites]
First off, your unease is perfectly valid. Even small as this infidelity ended up being, it was an infidelity, and you're allowed to feel hurt by that. We all want to be the only thing our partner needs, and being displaced, no matter how slightly, and no matter if you've given permission, can hurt.
But I might offer a reframing: you've got a valuable indication of your partner's trust in, respect for, and communication with you. This is something he could very easily have kept hidden and even justified doing so to himself ("it's over and done, she gave me permission, why bring it up?"). He didn't do that, and apparently didn't even wrestle with the notion of doing that for a few days. He let you know immediately because he thought being honest with you was more important than keeping his image pristine, and because he knew that he needed to be open in communication with the most important person in his life.
posted by jackbishop at 1:23 PM on August 27, 2023
But I might offer a reframing: you've got a valuable indication of your partner's trust in, respect for, and communication with you. This is something he could very easily have kept hidden and even justified doing so to himself ("it's over and done, she gave me permission, why bring it up?"). He didn't do that, and apparently didn't even wrestle with the notion of doing that for a few days. He let you know immediately because he thought being honest with you was more important than keeping his image pristine, and because he knew that he needed to be open in communication with the most important person in his life.
posted by jackbishop at 1:23 PM on August 27, 2023
Another thing probably to unpack in therapy: serious caregiving applies a pretty intense additional layer to the dynamics of an intimate relationship, and 1) your relationship will forever be changed by this even when you are back at 100% 2) caregiving can be infantilizing in ways that totally scramble the sexual dynamic of your relationship.
It is very likely that #2 is a significant factor in your anxiety, consciously and/or subconsciously. You may be facing a little bit of therapeutic work on your sexual relationship for reasons that have nothing or maybe 5% to do with this one incident, except you are trying to load all of it on that one plate, probably because it would be a lot less psychologically fraught to deal with "drunk kiss at a party" instead of "was totally dependent on for survival which is most often a context where a sexual relationship would be both taboo and a crime".
Also, reconsidering your presentation of your narrative, I realize that you did not make him an offer you thought was best, for either of you. You did what you thought you were obligated to do because society says that men have to be provided sexual services regardless of circumstances or they will leave because they have no other reason to stay. You say you did this to be "a good partner" as if it's just understood that this is what everyone does when they get sick or deployed or have to be away tending to some other responsibility.
It is not. Billions of people have rich (or just functional, their choice) solo sexual existences while remaining monogamous or abstinent from sexual activity with others.
The only justifiable reason to "open up the relationship" is because everyone involved truly wants non-monogamy to be part of their relationship framework, in some mutually-agreed-upon configuration. It is not an escape hatch, a life preserver, a fallback, or a fix for other problems or lacks in a relationship.
So a can of worms was opened. You violated your own boundaries and maybe insulted your partner by suggesting you think he can't deal like a grownup with a crisis drought, or you think he's so unable to control his impulses that he would of course cheat if you didn't give him a pass. This definitely IS something you need to work on together once you get your own oxygen mask firmly affixed, but the something is not that he "cheated". You have a series of relationship challenges to deal with, and some personal growth and insight to work through, but you can tell your intrusive thoughts that this is a WE problem, not a HIM problem.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:36 PM on August 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
It is very likely that #2 is a significant factor in your anxiety, consciously and/or subconsciously. You may be facing a little bit of therapeutic work on your sexual relationship for reasons that have nothing or maybe 5% to do with this one incident, except you are trying to load all of it on that one plate, probably because it would be a lot less psychologically fraught to deal with "drunk kiss at a party" instead of "was totally dependent on for survival which is most often a context where a sexual relationship would be both taboo and a crime".
Also, reconsidering your presentation of your narrative, I realize that you did not make him an offer you thought was best, for either of you. You did what you thought you were obligated to do because society says that men have to be provided sexual services regardless of circumstances or they will leave because they have no other reason to stay. You say you did this to be "a good partner" as if it's just understood that this is what everyone does when they get sick or deployed or have to be away tending to some other responsibility.
It is not. Billions of people have rich (or just functional, their choice) solo sexual existences while remaining monogamous or abstinent from sexual activity with others.
The only justifiable reason to "open up the relationship" is because everyone involved truly wants non-monogamy to be part of their relationship framework, in some mutually-agreed-upon configuration. It is not an escape hatch, a life preserver, a fallback, or a fix for other problems or lacks in a relationship.
So a can of worms was opened. You violated your own boundaries and maybe insulted your partner by suggesting you think he can't deal like a grownup with a crisis drought, or you think he's so unable to control his impulses that he would of course cheat if you didn't give him a pass. This definitely IS something you need to work on together once you get your own oxygen mask firmly affixed, but the something is not that he "cheated". You have a series of relationship challenges to deal with, and some personal growth and insight to work through, but you can tell your intrusive thoughts that this is a WE problem, not a HIM problem.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:36 PM on August 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
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First, and you probably know this, there's no silver bullet for a couple going through this. You've already put counselling on the table, lean into it and see where it goes.
Second, on some level it seems like you're in a "good" place compared to a lot of people to find a way through here? There was some exploration around the topic before it happened, there's a number of contributing factors, it's all out in the open relatively early. None of this is perfect and easy but you've got the foundations to work with it from where you are.
Counselling hopefully gives you a platform to bring 100% of the situation out if there is more to it, and then gives you both a position to work out what to do next? Combined with you feeling progressively more capable of navigating it and making decisions as you come up on the end of the year.
posted by muppetkarma at 11:21 PM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]