YANMARP - Troubleshooting dying freezer (or dying outlet?)
August 21, 2023 12:21 PM Subscribe
I would like the hivemind's help in planning a course of action to troubleshoot my freezer (I know you are not my appliance repair person). More details below.
I have an LG French door fridge like this. It was manufactured in 2012. Aside from when relatives didn't close the freezer all the way during the holidays, it has been fine since we moved into our house last year (it came with the house we have no other paperwork).
About a month ago, we had a storm knock out power to the whole house for about 10 hours. Since the the freezer has not been able to get below about 20 degrees F. (I bought a manual thermometer to keep in the freezer drawer.) Because the machine will not get to zero or below the ice maker no longer works. Not a huge deal breaker but it appears that the freezer is not staying a consistent temperature and when family is opening and shutting constantly food is thawing and refreezing regularly. Or so I thought. I just noticed that the power was not on. But when I unplug and plug it back in it came back on. Part of me wonders if the outlet could be going in and out (is that a thing?) as the fridge is plugged into this type of alarm. This alarm has not gone off but it also seems like it could be broken (it does not have an on/off switch or reset button.)
Now you have all the background info about the setup - here is what I have tried so far:
1) Taken off the back panel and attempted to vacuum the coils (They are really narrow, my vacuum attachment could not fit between them, and they didn't seem dirty - every website says to do this but I have a hard time thinking regular home owners routinely take the time to screw off a whole panel to get to the coils - maybe I'm just lazy).
2) Done a hard reset on the fridge as per the user manual instructions.
3) Unplugged it for a while
Nothing has worked to get the freezer to freeze deep enough (or make ice). The refrigerator has been fine and keeps things the temperature we expect it to (meaning if it is set low/high the temp is low/high as we've tried adjusting this).
So now what? Is it just time to get a new appliance? Is there anything I should/can do to test the outlet? What else should I consider?
I have an LG French door fridge like this. It was manufactured in 2012. Aside from when relatives didn't close the freezer all the way during the holidays, it has been fine since we moved into our house last year (it came with the house we have no other paperwork).
About a month ago, we had a storm knock out power to the whole house for about 10 hours. Since the the freezer has not been able to get below about 20 degrees F. (I bought a manual thermometer to keep in the freezer drawer.) Because the machine will not get to zero or below the ice maker no longer works. Not a huge deal breaker but it appears that the freezer is not staying a consistent temperature and when family is opening and shutting constantly food is thawing and refreezing regularly. Or so I thought. I just noticed that the power was not on. But when I unplug and plug it back in it came back on. Part of me wonders if the outlet could be going in and out (is that a thing?) as the fridge is plugged into this type of alarm. This alarm has not gone off but it also seems like it could be broken (it does not have an on/off switch or reset button.)
Now you have all the background info about the setup - here is what I have tried so far:
1) Taken off the back panel and attempted to vacuum the coils (They are really narrow, my vacuum attachment could not fit between them, and they didn't seem dirty - every website says to do this but I have a hard time thinking regular home owners routinely take the time to screw off a whole panel to get to the coils - maybe I'm just lazy).
2) Done a hard reset on the fridge as per the user manual instructions.
3) Unplugged it for a while
Nothing has worked to get the freezer to freeze deep enough (or make ice). The refrigerator has been fine and keeps things the temperature we expect it to (meaning if it is set low/high the temp is low/high as we've tried adjusting this).
So now what? Is it just time to get a new appliance? Is there anything I should/can do to test the outlet? What else should I consider?
Seconding check with an extension cord.
Because the machine will not get to zero or below the ice maker no longer works -- is it possible your fridge is stuck in Sabbath mode?
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:51 PM on August 21, 2023
Because the machine will not get to zero or below the ice maker no longer works -- is it possible your fridge is stuck in Sabbath mode?
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:51 PM on August 21, 2023
Usually the fridge part is kept cold by venting excess cold air from the freezer and when these things break, often it's the fridge that's unable to stay cold. It's weird that your fridge stays cold but the freezer isn't.
You should definitely check with an extension cord. Have you noticed any other weird behavior in your house (lights too bright or too dim? outlets not working?)
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:54 PM on August 21, 2023
You should definitely check with an extension cord. Have you noticed any other weird behavior in your house (lights too bright or too dim? outlets not working?)
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:54 PM on August 21, 2023
I bet the voltage supplied by your power company is not back up to pre-blackout levels.
Buy a tester which will give you a reliable digital reading and see where you stand.
posted by jamjam at 1:05 PM on August 21, 2023
Buy a tester which will give you a reliable digital reading and see where you stand.
posted by jamjam at 1:05 PM on August 21, 2023
Aside from when relatives didn't close the freezer all the way during the holidays, it has been fine since we moved into our house last year...
That line makes me suspicious. I have kids that regularly fail to close the bottom drawer all the way, which lets in humid air which turns to frost and then ice. Ice builds up and blocks the seals, door is even harder to close, cycle repeats. Meanwhile the freezer gets warmer and warmer.
I'd pull that freezer out all the way and check all the seals. Make sure they're flexible and clean and nothing is blocking them.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:08 PM on August 21, 2023
That line makes me suspicious. I have kids that regularly fail to close the bottom drawer all the way, which lets in humid air which turns to frost and then ice. Ice builds up and blocks the seals, door is even harder to close, cycle repeats. Meanwhile the freezer gets warmer and warmer.
I'd pull that freezer out all the way and check all the seals. Make sure they're flexible and clean and nothing is blocking them.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:08 PM on August 21, 2023
That line makes me suspicious. I have kids that regularly fail to close the bottom drawer all the way, which lets in humid air which turns to frost and then ice. Ice builds up and blocks the seals, door is even harder to close, cycle repeats. Meanwhile the freezer gets warmer and warmer.
My inlaws had a Samung that basically did the same thing - IMO the design on freezer bottoms is really bad where theirs would get blocked by ice build up and fail to close all the way - being slightly open burned out the motor. She would occasionally have to scrape a bunch of ice off the bottom and then it died all the way. The power outage could have damaged yours.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:32 PM on August 21, 2023
My inlaws had a Samung that basically did the same thing - IMO the design on freezer bottoms is really bad where theirs would get blocked by ice build up and fail to close all the way - being slightly open burned out the motor. She would occasionally have to scrape a bunch of ice off the bottom and then it died all the way. The power outage could have damaged yours.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:32 PM on August 21, 2023
Hi so I’m not a fridge repair guy, but I do work in an adjacent field (HVAC, and some commercial refrigeration). My first question would be, did the freezer temp setting reset? Is it set to 0F? The next question I have is does the freezer door seal properly? Is there any noticeable ice buildup that wasn’t present before? The next would be if the water dispenser still works. Probably the last would be does it have a fan for the condenser coils? If so, is it running? Do the coils feel unusually warm?
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 2:35 PM on August 21, 2023
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 2:35 PM on August 21, 2023
Response by poster: Thanks for all the thoughts. Here are clarifications and responses:
1) I ran a heavy duty extension cord to another outlet in another room. There seems to be no change in temperature - hovering at 28 degrees (It's been almost 3 hours, so in theory it could just need more time).
is it possible your fridge is stuck in Sabbath mode: I don't think so as I have done a hard reset a few times
I bet the voltage supplied by your power company is not back up to pre-blackout levels.
: Maybe but a month seems like a long time and would this also affect the other outlet?
I'd pull that freezer out all the way and check all the seals. Make sure they're flexible and clean and nothing is blocking them.: I have done this, they all seem flexible and there has never been any ice build up anywhere in the freezer
My first question would be, did the freezer temp setting reset? Is it set to 0F? The next question I have is does the freezer door seal properly? Is there any noticeable ice buildup that wasn’t present before? The next would be if the water dispenser still works. Probably the last would be does it have a fan for the condenser coils? If so, is it running? Do the coils feel unusually warm?: The freezer temp does not reset (It may have during the hard reset but it doesn't change when we unplug and replug it in. We have tried setting it to 0 and to -6 and to everything in between. We have been trying everything for several weeks (trying it at 0 for a few days and then -6 for a few days). There is zero ice build up. The fan runs but the coils do not feel unusually warm.
Have you noticed any other weird behavior in your house (lights too bright or too dim? outlets not working?) We do have some old outlets that do not work here and there. There is some "hanky" electrical stuff here and there - which is why I liked the idea of the extension cord and made sure it I plugged it into a an outlet on a different breaker. (The kitchen was redone ~2000, I made sure to use an outlet not part of that redo).
posted by turtlefu at 3:07 PM on August 21, 2023
1) I ran a heavy duty extension cord to another outlet in another room. There seems to be no change in temperature - hovering at 28 degrees (It's been almost 3 hours, so in theory it could just need more time).
is it possible your fridge is stuck in Sabbath mode: I don't think so as I have done a hard reset a few times
I bet the voltage supplied by your power company is not back up to pre-blackout levels.
: Maybe but a month seems like a long time and would this also affect the other outlet?
I'd pull that freezer out all the way and check all the seals. Make sure they're flexible and clean and nothing is blocking them.: I have done this, they all seem flexible and there has never been any ice build up anywhere in the freezer
My first question would be, did the freezer temp setting reset? Is it set to 0F? The next question I have is does the freezer door seal properly? Is there any noticeable ice buildup that wasn’t present before? The next would be if the water dispenser still works. Probably the last would be does it have a fan for the condenser coils? If so, is it running? Do the coils feel unusually warm?: The freezer temp does not reset (It may have during the hard reset but it doesn't change when we unplug and replug it in. We have tried setting it to 0 and to -6 and to everything in between. We have been trying everything for several weeks (trying it at 0 for a few days and then -6 for a few days). There is zero ice build up. The fan runs but the coils do not feel unusually warm.
Have you noticed any other weird behavior in your house (lights too bright or too dim? outlets not working?) We do have some old outlets that do not work here and there. There is some "hanky" electrical stuff here and there - which is why I liked the idea of the extension cord and made sure it I plugged it into a an outlet on a different breaker. (The kitchen was redone ~2000, I made sure to use an outlet not part of that redo).
posted by turtlefu at 3:07 PM on August 21, 2023
The timing makes me suspect a voltage spike or extended brown out damaged either the thermostat, the motor relay, or the compressor itself. In which case you'd need a technician to narrow it down and effect a repair.
posted by Mitheral at 3:20 PM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 3:20 PM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
June 22, 2023 | Publicationposted by jamjam at 3:28 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
There is a shortage of electrical distribution transformers in the US, with wait times of often more than a year and prices quadrupling in some cases. As a result, electrification and construction projects are being delayed or even canceled at a time when grid expansion and modernization are key for increasing resilience and meeting renewable energy goals.
Ok on looking closer, I can’t find a service manual or wiring diagram, but on the spec sheet it says it’s an inverter compressor, which means it’ll be a variable speed/frequency controller, and fairly sensitive to voltage issues. As Mithral said, it’s likely a voltage spike did some damage. My guess would be to the inverter board or possibly the main control board,if they aren’t integrated. Unfortunately in my experience, similar types of boards are both expensive and often difficult to get (I’m still waiting on one that I ordered almost 6 months ago from Lennox for a fairly standard unit). It may be worth having it looked at, but given that it’s ~11 years old, it’s probably better off being replaced. Variable speed/frequency tech using inverters and frequency manipulation in HVAC seems to have a lifespan of about 10-15 years IME, and repairs are usually only cost effective if the parts are under warranty. Just my two cents.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 4:05 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 4:05 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
LG had a class action settlement for some fridges. See here
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:11 PM on August 21, 2023
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:11 PM on August 21, 2023
So I have a super dumb take on things that you probably already considered. The way the fridge/freezer thing works frequently is the fridge control controls a splitter that diverts a proportion of cooled air from the freezer and the freezer control controls the actual temp. Try setting the freezer to the coldest position and the fridge temp to the warmest one and see if it makes a difference.
Maybe modern fridges work differently, but it is worth a try and will only take a day to test.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:23 PM on August 21, 2023
Maybe modern fridges work differently, but it is worth a try and will only take a day to test.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:23 PM on August 21, 2023
I'll just mention that I recently found out that our electric company will install a whole house surge protector for a fairly small monthly charge.
It's a little more than I would honestly like to pay for such a thing, but given there are few ways to surge-protect the whole house and if you try to fill the gap by buying various individual surge protectors for various appliances and computers, and then replacing them regularly you are likely to spend as much or more, it's worth checking out. A quick calculation on our part easily showed the cost of the surge protector is less than the cost of things ruined by surges over the past several years.
Here is our utility's plan. I realize you won't live in that utility's service area but if our backwoods utility is offering such a thing there is a good chance it is a fairly commonplace thing among utilities everywhere now.
If you don't do that, obviously get an individual surge protector just for the fridge and/or a few other things around your kitchen.
Another option is this type of whole-house surge protector that you'll probably need an electrician to install.
posted by flug at 7:06 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's a little more than I would honestly like to pay for such a thing, but given there are few ways to surge-protect the whole house and if you try to fill the gap by buying various individual surge protectors for various appliances and computers, and then replacing them regularly you are likely to spend as much or more, it's worth checking out. A quick calculation on our part easily showed the cost of the surge protector is less than the cost of things ruined by surges over the past several years.
Here is our utility's plan. I realize you won't live in that utility's service area but if our backwoods utility is offering such a thing there is a good chance it is a fairly commonplace thing among utilities everywhere now.
If you don't do that, obviously get an individual surge protector just for the fridge and/or a few other things around your kitchen.
Another option is this type of whole-house surge protector that you'll probably need an electrician to install.
posted by flug at 7:06 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Not to derail too much, but the more we as a society shift to higher efficiency appliances, the more it’s a good idea to have surge protection. Much of the efficiency gains we get in things like modulating heat pumps, heat pump hot water tanks and condensing dryers etc. comes from manipulating electricity via, well, electronics. Modulating frequency and voltage to control power consumption can give great gains in efficiency, but loses a lot in reliability/robustness of older style appliances, and a huge amount of the electrical problems come from dirty voltage, spikes, etc. and fried electronics are very expensive. If you’re considering getting electric, high-efficiency, modulating appliances, consider a whole home surge protector, as Flug mentions above.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 7:15 PM on August 21, 2023
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 7:15 PM on August 21, 2023
Unplugged it for a while
Did you let it defrost? The idea is if ice froze up in some mechanism, preventing it from regulating temperature between units, defrosting will fix it.
posted by flimflam at 7:38 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Did you let it defrost? The idea is if ice froze up in some mechanism, preventing it from regulating temperature between units, defrosting will fix it.
posted by flimflam at 7:38 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Generally, there is a vent between the freezer and refrigerator sections; a flapper door operates off a servo motor, opening and closing to let more or less cold air from the freezer section into the refrigerator section to maintain desired coldness level.
After a recent power failure, the flapper door in our refrigerator developed ice in the mechanism due to partial thawing and refreezing, upsetting the coldness balance between the sections. Completely defrosting the unit solved the problem. Could you have a similar issue?
posted by coldhotel at 6:52 AM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
After a recent power failure, the flapper door in our refrigerator developed ice in the mechanism due to partial thawing and refreezing, upsetting the coldness balance between the sections. Completely defrosting the unit solved the problem. Could you have a similar issue?
posted by coldhotel at 6:52 AM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I went back and checked my notes, and my LG fridge, which had an linear inverter compressor, was built in 2014. When it failed in 2020, it had similar symptoms as yours: Fridge was keeping OK temperature but Freezer was too warm.
It was eventually fixed under warranty and I even got some $ from the class-action settlement. Sadly, if this is what happened to yours, I'm guessing your fridge is too old and/or failed outside the warranty/class-action range to get fixed for free.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 10:51 AM on August 24, 2023
It was eventually fixed under warranty and I even got some $ from the class-action settlement. Sadly, if this is what happened to yours, I'm guessing your fridge is too old and/or failed outside the warranty/class-action range to get fixed for free.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 10:51 AM on August 24, 2023
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posted by seanmpuckett at 12:26 PM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]