Clothing budget for a 14-year-old girl?
August 20, 2023 2:20 PM Subscribe
My older daughter is becoming a bit of a clothes horse. It’s starting to be a point of contention—what she wants vs what I’m willing/able to buy her—and I’m hoping that giving her a budget will help nip this in the bud, as well as teach her financial responsibility and maybe even some thriftiness. But how much?
I know this is a subjective question dependent on a lot of variables. Even some ballpark numbers (monthly or quarterly) would be helpful, though. I'm tired of every potential purchase turning into an argument. My few friends with teen girls don't seem to have this issue.
We’re a middle-class family (single dad, 2 girls) in a major US city with lots of shopping options. My oldest likes stores like Hollister, Athleta, Lucky Brand, O’Neill, and American Eagle, and she makes the good point that clothes from cheaper stores often don’t fit as well or last as long. (Her 11-year-old sister is growing just as fast but is ok with places like Target and Shein--the latter is one of the few brands that actually fit her tall skinny frame--and also gets hand-me-downs.)
FWIW, they both go to a private school with kids whose families don’t tend to have many budgeting constraints, unlike us. Not much thrift store shopping, in other words, which I would be all for.
This budget wouldn’t include special one-time purchases like sports uniforms. Shoes could also be their own category.
I’m wondering how much of the issue is unrealistic expectations on my part. For example, I’ve already spent $1700 on clothes for her this year so far, including shoes (vs $850 for her sister). This seems like a lot to me—but is it really? I've never done this before.
They live half-time with their mom, but essentially have separate wardrobes for each house so they don't have to pack up constantly. Even though there's little to no coordination in terms of what we each get them, unfortunately, there are some item that overlap, like shoes, jackets and underwear, so if anything I'd think that would bring the numbers down.
I know this is a subjective question dependent on a lot of variables. Even some ballpark numbers (monthly or quarterly) would be helpful, though. I'm tired of every potential purchase turning into an argument. My few friends with teen girls don't seem to have this issue.
We’re a middle-class family (single dad, 2 girls) in a major US city with lots of shopping options. My oldest likes stores like Hollister, Athleta, Lucky Brand, O’Neill, and American Eagle, and she makes the good point that clothes from cheaper stores often don’t fit as well or last as long. (Her 11-year-old sister is growing just as fast but is ok with places like Target and Shein--the latter is one of the few brands that actually fit her tall skinny frame--and also gets hand-me-downs.)
FWIW, they both go to a private school with kids whose families don’t tend to have many budgeting constraints, unlike us. Not much thrift store shopping, in other words, which I would be all for.
This budget wouldn’t include special one-time purchases like sports uniforms. Shoes could also be their own category.
I’m wondering how much of the issue is unrealistic expectations on my part. For example, I’ve already spent $1700 on clothes for her this year so far, including shoes (vs $850 for her sister). This seems like a lot to me—but is it really? I've never done this before.
They live half-time with their mom, but essentially have separate wardrobes for each house so they don't have to pack up constantly. Even though there's little to no coordination in terms of what we each get them, unfortunately, there are some item that overlap, like shoes, jackets and underwear, so if anything I'd think that would bring the numbers down.
Teen clothes are really expensive (over priced). I buy clothes for my skinny, tough-to-fit kid and have to buy the "good" brands because they are the only pants that fit him. I shop sales, thrift when possible, and buy the cheaper stuff when the fit doesn't matter as much.
I think this is a great time to give her a set budget and then she has to figure out how to get what she wants within her budget.
I'd give her 500 bucks to school shop. Then give her an allowance and she can use it for stuff or clothes. She can save up for the summer or spring clothes or spend it as she gets it. But I feel like you really have to stick to it, if it's going to have any impact.
Honestly I think the amount of money spend on her clothes is a bit outrageous, especially considering she has a second set of clothes.
And I bet, some of her very rich classmates are like my nieces and friends' kids. They are wealthy, but it's like a competitive sport to not look wealthy. They all thrift and avoid name brands like the plague.
posted by beccaj at 2:59 PM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think this is a great time to give her a set budget and then she has to figure out how to get what she wants within her budget.
I'd give her 500 bucks to school shop. Then give her an allowance and she can use it for stuff or clothes. She can save up for the summer or spring clothes or spend it as she gets it. But I feel like you really have to stick to it, if it's going to have any impact.
Honestly I think the amount of money spend on her clothes is a bit outrageous, especially considering she has a second set of clothes.
And I bet, some of her very rich classmates are like my nieces and friends' kids. They are wealthy, but it's like a competitive sport to not look wealthy. They all thrift and avoid name brands like the plague.
posted by beccaj at 2:59 PM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
As a mother of a teenage boy who seems largely uninterested in fashion, and like once or twice a year asks me to buy him cheap plain T-shirts from Amazon in bulk, I have no insight on the budget question, but I wanted to mention that all the brands you mention can be found on Thredup, often even new with tags, at a fraction of the price. Just as a general FYI.
posted by virve at 3:13 PM on August 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by virve at 3:13 PM on August 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
As 14 year olds can grow very quickly, so if she’s got some favorites that she’s already out-grown—she might like buying and selling on sites like Poshmark, ThredUp, Etsy. Separate wardrobes for both houses seems a bit much to me, other than school or athletic equipment/uniforms. If she wants something fancy/pricey for a social event, see if she’ll make a deal with you—you’ll match whatever she can save or earn.
posted by Ideefixe at 3:25 PM on August 20, 2023
posted by Ideefixe at 3:25 PM on August 20, 2023
Not a number, but a suggestion on how to find one. My son and I went through this exercise and it was a good experience in a number of ways. It's time consuming on the front end, but some of the work is done by your teen, and to me it's really about financial education and more intentional consumerism. And this method carried my son from 9th grade, when he had little interest in clothes beyond basics, to college, when he has much more interest in putting together a look and a style. We have had no arguments about what he spends, the clothes he needs, or even discussions other than, "Does this look good on me?" or "What are the good thrift shops around?" It was a much nicer place to be in as a parent.
- Together agree on a reasonable number of each item that she would need per year, or per 6 months if she's in a growth spurt or you have strong seasonal differences where you live. How many shirts, pants, shorts, skirts, dresses, shoes, tights, etc.? Capsule wardrobe blogs might help her (and you) understand how many outfits she can truly create out of a set of pieces.
- Once you agree on a reasonable number of each, the next step is for her to research and make a list of 5-10 that she could see herself wearing and to share those lists with you. So, 5-10 pants, 5-10 shirts, 5-10 skirts, etc.
- From each list, strike any wildly expensive outlier items -- a $300 shirt on a list of mostly $35 shirts. Caution: do not tell your teen that you may strike outlier pieces from each list before they present you with the list. The purpose is to create a reasonable range. And if there's no wildly expensive piece on a list, then it's fine to keep them all on the list.
- Average the remaining prices for a single price per piece cost. So if you agreed that 8 shirts per year is reasonable, and the average price per shirt is $35, then you budget $280 for shirts. Do this with each of the other clothing pieces.
- Add those numbers up for a total yearly clothing budget.
- You might offer to increase the total budget by some percent (15%?) if most clothes get passed down to her sister. But if they are either falling apart, too trendy to be valued by her younger sister once she gets them, or not many are really getting passed down, you'd adjust.
- You might also choose to reduce the total number by some percentage because she spends time at mom's and has clothes there. Mom may have her own way of handling the clothing issue, but your daughter nonetheless has clothes at the other home. IMO kids should have enough to wear for the entire stretch they're with you. If you have her for two weeks straight, she should be able to make 14 days of outfits at your house -- not 14 of everything, but the ability to put together 14 outfits from clothing combinations. So you could start with that as your total goal, rather than a year's worth of clothes.
Now, because she's 14, I propose that you don't need to manage your daughter's spending in each category going forward. You don't need to police that the shirts are all $35 or less. You don't even to oversee that she's purchasing the "right" number of items in each category. That's all her job. You only need to stick to the overall clothing budget in the set time frame. You both agreed on the number of items. You both understand the average price per piece. She can meet her clothing needs within that overall number with flexibility and with foresight.
When my son first did this, he was very surprised at how much things cost. He also realized how little time he spent wearing some clothes while he was still growing. Then, he began to get more discerning about what he bought new and what he thrifted. He knew he'd want a specific set of pants and sneakers, but he learned he didn't care about getting new t-shirts and began to thrift more shirts. When events came up that required specific clothes, generally I covered the cost if it was something I expected him to attend (e.g. a funeral). If it was something he wanted to attend like a school dance, he planned for it accordingly by looking ahead or shifting his expenditures in the months leading up to it. Since the total budget was his to work within, he really did begin to prioritize what was worth spending money on. It was a good skill for him to learn while living at home when he had some room for error -- financially or stylistically.
Each year we did a mini review ("My feet have stopped growing so I'm going to spend more on nice shoes this year." "I never buy new shirts so I'm going to bring that number down.") and generally I put more responsibility in his hands, for instance, adding in expensive items like winter coats and boots.
posted by cocoagirl at 3:44 PM on August 20, 2023 [65 favorites]
- Together agree on a reasonable number of each item that she would need per year, or per 6 months if she's in a growth spurt or you have strong seasonal differences where you live. How many shirts, pants, shorts, skirts, dresses, shoes, tights, etc.? Capsule wardrobe blogs might help her (and you) understand how many outfits she can truly create out of a set of pieces.
- Once you agree on a reasonable number of each, the next step is for her to research and make a list of 5-10 that she could see herself wearing and to share those lists with you. So, 5-10 pants, 5-10 shirts, 5-10 skirts, etc.
- From each list, strike any wildly expensive outlier items -- a $300 shirt on a list of mostly $35 shirts. Caution: do not tell your teen that you may strike outlier pieces from each list before they present you with the list. The purpose is to create a reasonable range. And if there's no wildly expensive piece on a list, then it's fine to keep them all on the list.
- Average the remaining prices for a single price per piece cost. So if you agreed that 8 shirts per year is reasonable, and the average price per shirt is $35, then you budget $280 for shirts. Do this with each of the other clothing pieces.
- Add those numbers up for a total yearly clothing budget.
- You might offer to increase the total budget by some percent (15%?) if most clothes get passed down to her sister. But if they are either falling apart, too trendy to be valued by her younger sister once she gets them, or not many are really getting passed down, you'd adjust.
- You might also choose to reduce the total number by some percentage because she spends time at mom's and has clothes there. Mom may have her own way of handling the clothing issue, but your daughter nonetheless has clothes at the other home. IMO kids should have enough to wear for the entire stretch they're with you. If you have her for two weeks straight, she should be able to make 14 days of outfits at your house -- not 14 of everything, but the ability to put together 14 outfits from clothing combinations. So you could start with that as your total goal, rather than a year's worth of clothes.
Now, because she's 14, I propose that you don't need to manage your daughter's spending in each category going forward. You don't need to police that the shirts are all $35 or less. You don't even to oversee that she's purchasing the "right" number of items in each category. That's all her job. You only need to stick to the overall clothing budget in the set time frame. You both agreed on the number of items. You both understand the average price per piece. She can meet her clothing needs within that overall number with flexibility and with foresight.
When my son first did this, he was very surprised at how much things cost. He also realized how little time he spent wearing some clothes while he was still growing. Then, he began to get more discerning about what he bought new and what he thrifted. He knew he'd want a specific set of pants and sneakers, but he learned he didn't care about getting new t-shirts and began to thrift more shirts. When events came up that required specific clothes, generally I covered the cost if it was something I expected him to attend (e.g. a funeral). If it was something he wanted to attend like a school dance, he planned for it accordingly by looking ahead or shifting his expenditures in the months leading up to it. Since the total budget was his to work within, he really did begin to prioritize what was worth spending money on. It was a good skill for him to learn while living at home when he had some room for error -- financially or stylistically.
Each year we did a mini review ("My feet have stopped growing so I'm going to spend more on nice shoes this year." "I never buy new shirts so I'm going to bring that number down.") and generally I put more responsibility in his hands, for instance, adding in expensive items like winter coats and boots.
posted by cocoagirl at 3:44 PM on August 20, 2023 [65 favorites]
Would it help to talk to her in terms of the number of clothes she needs instead of a strict monetary budget? This way it's not about her trying to use up every dollar she is allowed to have, but thinking more long term about what she needs. How many casual shirts/pants/hoodies/pajamas/underwear does she need between laundry days? How many cuter tops for going out, based on her typical lifestyle (maybe 4, one for each weekend per month so she doesn't repeat every month?) Same with shoes, jackets, etc. Does she *need* every color jacket or does she have one for winter already and only needs a summer rainjacket? Do the math in your head that way and see if that would work out budget-wise before you try it with her though. I'm personally flexible with how much each item costs but I have 2 pairs of jeans, 1 winter coat, 2 goodies, so I'm not shopping for the sake of shopping, but instead buying the 1 thing I need and like without worrying too much about how it costs (within reason, I'm not going into expensive stores). Buying only what you need is a helpful skill for when she goes to college and becomes an adult too.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 3:47 PM on August 20, 2023
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 3:47 PM on August 20, 2023
My general advice is to start very low (really low, something like 30$/month), and revisit the topic three months. Have her explain why it needs to be more at a sit-down meeting.
In your own thinking, you might want to separate "needs" from "wants". For example, kids need well-fitting and high quality shoes because they're growing. They probably need a new set of underwear and socks once a year. They need coats, hats, scarves, etc, to stay warm and dry. And they need enough well-fitting clothes to create maybe ten different outfits (for every season) because honestly, they're still growing and few adults wear a different sweater every day of the month. Everything else is part of the "wants". It's okay to save up for wants, or to ask for a special shirt for your birthday. You know how you want her to discover thrift stores? But thrift stores get their name for a reason. No need to be "thrifty" if you have a generous budget. It's almost like life needs to become a bit uncomfortable before people start looking around for clever solutions.
For those brand names that are not sustainably sourced, you might want to have her watch a documentary about the exploitation. Watch it together, and pre-screen or read reviews on commonsense media because you obviously don't want her traumatized or guilt-ridden. It's okay to want the brand names, but supporting those brands with your money should be a conscious choice. Thrifted, you can get those same brands without supporting the evil rich people. Worth a try, especially as many teens want to change the world.
posted by toucan at 3:59 PM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
In your own thinking, you might want to separate "needs" from "wants". For example, kids need well-fitting and high quality shoes because they're growing. They probably need a new set of underwear and socks once a year. They need coats, hats, scarves, etc, to stay warm and dry. And they need enough well-fitting clothes to create maybe ten different outfits (for every season) because honestly, they're still growing and few adults wear a different sweater every day of the month. Everything else is part of the "wants". It's okay to save up for wants, or to ask for a special shirt for your birthday. You know how you want her to discover thrift stores? But thrift stores get their name for a reason. No need to be "thrifty" if you have a generous budget. It's almost like life needs to become a bit uncomfortable before people start looking around for clever solutions.
For those brand names that are not sustainably sourced, you might want to have her watch a documentary about the exploitation. Watch it together, and pre-screen or read reviews on commonsense media because you obviously don't want her traumatized or guilt-ridden. It's okay to want the brand names, but supporting those brands with your money should be a conscious choice. Thrifted, you can get those same brands without supporting the evil rich people. Worth a try, especially as many teens want to change the world.
posted by toucan at 3:59 PM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Perhaps a class showing her how to customize clothing for minimum cost and time investment would let her show some creative side AND have something nobody else have?
Or shop for look-alikes? Buying name brand pretty much means it would be her sister wearing it soon. Some of those fashion channels (not by influencers, but those stylists like Gok from UK who always shops on a budget) may be good inspirations.
posted by kschang at 4:21 PM on August 20, 2023
Or shop for look-alikes? Buying name brand pretty much means it would be her sister wearing it soon. Some of those fashion channels (not by influencers, but those stylists like Gok from UK who always shops on a budget) may be good inspirations.
posted by kschang at 4:21 PM on August 20, 2023
What does your co-parent do? It will be difficult to have an effective budget (no matter how big or small) if both families are not on the same page.
posted by nkknkk at 4:31 PM on August 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by nkknkk at 4:31 PM on August 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
I really like cocagirl’s suggestion for how to handle the budgeting/shopping approach. It took me until my 30s to understand that I needed to think of my closet holistically to make sure I was buying things that would match with other things and that I had the right number of shirts/sweaters/pants/etc. I think this would have helped me a lot in the long run because for years I would buy one cool thing and then realize that I had nothing to wear it with. It’s also probably best to avoid a total 180 of shopping approaches and turn her into a clearance rack shopper that can’t ever buy basics so she can’t put a reasonable outfit together.
As an adult, my wardrobe operates on a one in/one out approach - if I’m buying new leggings, it’s because the ones I already have got a hole or became unwearable for some other reason. If you feel like she has a probably correct amount of clothing and is just outgrowing or wearing through things, this could be another way to set a budget - what can’t she wear anymore (or won’t she wear anymore - which is another learning opportunity) and how much would it cost to replace those items?
posted by A Blue Moon at 4:35 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
As an adult, my wardrobe operates on a one in/one out approach - if I’m buying new leggings, it’s because the ones I already have got a hole or became unwearable for some other reason. If you feel like she has a probably correct amount of clothing and is just outgrowing or wearing through things, this could be another way to set a budget - what can’t she wear anymore (or won’t she wear anymore - which is another learning opportunity) and how much would it cost to replace those items?
posted by A Blue Moon at 4:35 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
My suggestion is that part of this discussion involve the real and present harms done to real people (far away) by participation in the cycle of fast fashion and disposable clothing. Yes some pricier brands last longe than some cheaper crap, but to my knowledge American Eagle etc still offer plenty of systemic exploitation and oppression in their impacts.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:37 PM on August 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:37 PM on August 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
As a teen, I got a flat amount of money credited to an "account" (a spreadsheet) each month. The money could build up month-to-month, and we presented receipts to be reimbursed for our clothes purchases. It was the 90s, and my allowance $80 a month. I would save up for shoes (which were my thing) and get by on thrifted pants and shirts (which were cool at the time). It taught me a lot about budgeting and stopped fights with my parents about their vs my perceived value of certain clothes.
As a data point, sports equipment and school uniform did NOT come from this money. Shoes, coats, underwear, and all (four seasons) daily wear did all have to be covered by this money. We had mostly stopped growing by the time we got a clothing allowance, so we were not having to replace a full wardrobe each year, but supplementing and replacing items as they wore out or went out of fashion.
I am considering giving my kids a clothing allowance in the future and would start at $80 a month, but they are boys who are not really into clothes and don't need proper winter wear given our climate.
posted by Sauter Vaguely at 4:44 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
As a data point, sports equipment and school uniform did NOT come from this money. Shoes, coats, underwear, and all (four seasons) daily wear did all have to be covered by this money. We had mostly stopped growing by the time we got a clothing allowance, so we were not having to replace a full wardrobe each year, but supplementing and replacing items as they wore out or went out of fashion.
I am considering giving my kids a clothing allowance in the future and would start at $80 a month, but they are boys who are not really into clothes and don't need proper winter wear given our climate.
posted by Sauter Vaguely at 4:44 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Over 50 years ago, my single mother gave me a $20/mo clothing budget. She paid for my shoes and winter coats (this was in Denver).
At first, I made a few really foolish purchases, but it didn’t take long to realize that blowing my budget on a shirt I wore twice was a waste of money. I started thrifting and haunting the sale racks, and do so to this day.
I really love cocagirl’s approach, and wish I had learned those kind of lessons earlier in life.
posted by dbmcd at 5:07 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
At first, I made a few really foolish purchases, but it didn’t take long to realize that blowing my budget on a shirt I wore twice was a waste of money. I started thrifting and haunting the sale racks, and do so to this day.
I really love cocagirl’s approach, and wish I had learned those kind of lessons earlier in life.
posted by dbmcd at 5:07 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
I give my 11 year old $50/month for clothes. I did this quarterly for my older kids because we were pre-online shopping and it was easier to do four big shopping weeks. Ive adjusted prices for inflation, but basically looked at the clothes expenses I was already paying annually and divided by 12.
I cover school/work uniforms, socks and underwear. If it’s something for a special occasion she hasn’t picked like a family wedding, I’ll cover that. I do school and sports shoes too. The rest is up to them to decide. If you’re in temperate weather, winter coats should be included on your side.
Teenagers need to learn to budget and to use thrift/resale shops. Learning to do laundry and what makes a garment worth buying are very helpful. Absolutely on fast fashion if you can get them to avoid it. I don’t buy shein. When we disagree over an item, I’ll ask them to wait a week and then they can buy it.
Negotiate with her as well for skincare/makeup as a budget too. I cover basic toiletries and mine used their regular pocket money on drugstore makeup.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:57 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
I cover school/work uniforms, socks and underwear. If it’s something for a special occasion she hasn’t picked like a family wedding, I’ll cover that. I do school and sports shoes too. The rest is up to them to decide. If you’re in temperate weather, winter coats should be included on your side.
Teenagers need to learn to budget and to use thrift/resale shops. Learning to do laundry and what makes a garment worth buying are very helpful. Absolutely on fast fashion if you can get them to avoid it. I don’t buy shein. When we disagree over an item, I’ll ask them to wait a week and then they can buy it.
Negotiate with her as well for skincare/makeup as a budget too. I cover basic toiletries and mine used their regular pocket money on drugstore makeup.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:57 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also designer clothes can be bought second hand if you’re resourceful. My only caveat is if she’s plus sized or shaped different than most teens, eg very tall/short, wheelchair. Then you as a parent need to put in extra resources to find clothes that work and are teen fashionable, either helping them search for thrift options or paying a bigger budget so they can make the most of limited options.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:00 PM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:00 PM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't have advice regarding a specific clothes budget, but if agree with separating between needs and wants. Does she have any money of her own? As in an allowance, money from babysitting or pet sitting or whatever, or from birthday gifts etc? You can buy the clothes she needs and she can buy herself the clothes she wants with money she has saved up, if she's into fashion as a hobby.
posted by emd3737 at 6:34 PM on August 20, 2023
posted by emd3737 at 6:34 PM on August 20, 2023
So far you've spent a bit over $200/mo. on clothes for her. That doesn't seem ridiculous these days, though it's definitely solid middle class. (Also, does that include bras? Because decent bras cost more than you can believe. As an adult woman, if I'm not wearing a suit or an overcoat, my bra is often the most expensive single item I have on, and I don't mean just on date night.)
Keep in mind that it is very stressful to go to high school with a bunch of kids richer than you (ask me how I know) and her social standing likely depends to a certain degree on her looking fashionable. It's stupid, but, and I can't stress this enough, she can't opt out of it even if she wants to. Not without experiencing the teen equivalent of social death. Her younger sister may just not be at that social stage yet.
But you're on a budget, and that's real. That's why I endorse the approach discussed above of talking through with her what her needs are. How many of this, how many of that, what does she already have. That preempts arguments to some degree: "we discussed that you need five pairs of jeans, you already have five, we'll need to wait til next semester." Teaching her to separate out needs and wants and plan for both is laying a strong foundation for budgeting, which in the end is far more about psychology than numbers.
Important caveat: please be sensitive to the fact that she's not only growing, but her whole shape is changing, and things may cease to fit relatively quickly, and it can be very embarrassing for teen girls to talk about, especially with their dad. Unless you have a good reason to think she's fibbing, please accept it if she says something doesn't fit anymore.
posted by praemunire at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2023 [31 favorites]
Keep in mind that it is very stressful to go to high school with a bunch of kids richer than you (ask me how I know) and her social standing likely depends to a certain degree on her looking fashionable. It's stupid, but, and I can't stress this enough, she can't opt out of it even if she wants to. Not without experiencing the teen equivalent of social death. Her younger sister may just not be at that social stage yet.
But you're on a budget, and that's real. That's why I endorse the approach discussed above of talking through with her what her needs are. How many of this, how many of that, what does she already have. That preempts arguments to some degree: "we discussed that you need five pairs of jeans, you already have five, we'll need to wait til next semester." Teaching her to separate out needs and wants and plan for both is laying a strong foundation for budgeting, which in the end is far more about psychology than numbers.
Important caveat: please be sensitive to the fact that she's not only growing, but her whole shape is changing, and things may cease to fit relatively quickly, and it can be very embarrassing for teen girls to talk about, especially with their dad. Unless you have a good reason to think she's fibbing, please accept it if she says something doesn't fit anymore.
posted by praemunire at 7:08 PM on August 20, 2023 [31 favorites]
Do a family budgeting demo with her! Feel free to fuzz the numbers where you need to, but start with an income amount and have her name all the things the family needs to pay for in a given month. Housing, groceries, transit, utilities (name them!), and subtract all the different costs. Be sure to demonstrate setting aside money into savings for large purchases (like vacations), for college funds, for retirement, for expected-unexpected expenses, and for emergencies. At the end, say that you’ve whittled it down to some hundreds of dollars. Discuss how to distribute that surplus money as luxury allowances for *everyone* in the family, plus maybe a joint family allowance that can be used for splurging on family outings. (This doesn’t have to be your only entertainment budget, but it could be a fun experiment to have ‘shared’ funds that your daughters can have a say in how they are spent).
By doing a budgeting demo like this, you can show her that when she runs out of her allowance for the week/month/quarter, there’s not a lot of flexibility to get more from you. The other money is earmarked for other needs. When *necessities* come up, that’s what the expected-unexpected savings are for, so you can buy her a new pair of running shoes since the old ones wore out, but that money isn’t for a new pair of jeans just because she wants them.
The demo of “necessities vs luxuries” can also segue into helping your daughter use her allowance, budgeting for necessities (socks, underwear, basics) vs splashy stylish pieces that belong in specific outfits for specific looks.
+1 to comments above about it being unlikely you can grok the social pressure (both overt and subconscious) that she is going through and will go through in the coming years.
I think it’s risky to ask her what she thinks she needs (quantity-wise) for different things. Functionally, a teenager can get by just fine on a capsule wardrobe and 1-in-1-out. But socialness, media, and social media means that she probably wants to be able to recreate every cute outfit she sees on TikTok/YouTube/Insta.
posted by itesser at 7:27 PM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
By doing a budgeting demo like this, you can show her that when she runs out of her allowance for the week/month/quarter, there’s not a lot of flexibility to get more from you. The other money is earmarked for other needs. When *necessities* come up, that’s what the expected-unexpected savings are for, so you can buy her a new pair of running shoes since the old ones wore out, but that money isn’t for a new pair of jeans just because she wants them.
The demo of “necessities vs luxuries” can also segue into helping your daughter use her allowance, budgeting for necessities (socks, underwear, basics) vs splashy stylish pieces that belong in specific outfits for specific looks.
+1 to comments above about it being unlikely you can grok the social pressure (both overt and subconscious) that she is going through and will go through in the coming years.
I think it’s risky to ask her what she thinks she needs (quantity-wise) for different things. Functionally, a teenager can get by just fine on a capsule wardrobe and 1-in-1-out. But socialness, media, and social media means that she probably wants to be able to recreate every cute outfit she sees on TikTok/YouTube/Insta.
posted by itesser at 7:27 PM on August 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
The social pressure to dress as well as rich girls is REAL and holy shit does it damage a girl's self esteem. Definitely take her seriously and spend the money to help her feel confident in her clothing. My immigrant parents flatly refused to let me dress like my rich wasp shithead peers and it was social death. Those girls made cutting comments about my clothing and my parents' socioeconomic status constantly, ike multiple times a day, and it made me desperately, catastrophically, hysterically self conscious. As an adult, decades later I still go panic-shopping before new experiences and absolutely agonize over not looking wrong.
Check out Poshmark (similar to eBay for secondhand clothing) but do it together - it's SUPER painless to buy things which makes it easy to overbuy, and you can't return. So only use it for things you've had a chance to try out in the store, like shoes, purses, loose-fitting items like T-shirts, or brands like Lululemon or Adidias where the sizing is pretty consistent and you can try things on in the store before searching for them on Poshmark. And always make offers rather than just buying at the listed price.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:25 PM on August 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
Check out Poshmark (similar to eBay for secondhand clothing) but do it together - it's SUPER painless to buy things which makes it easy to overbuy, and you can't return. So only use it for things you've had a chance to try out in the store, like shoes, purses, loose-fitting items like T-shirts, or brands like Lululemon or Adidias where the sizing is pretty consistent and you can try things on in the store before searching for them on Poshmark. And always make offers rather than just buying at the listed price.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 9:25 PM on August 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
$1700 is really reasonable considering that includes shoes. My daughter goes through at least two pairs a year at $145/pop.
I stopped doing back to school shopping. Better to fill holes in the wardrobe as they pop up than to plan ahead for the year. Get a new bra when you grow out of the old, buy workout gear when starting a coaching job, etc.
I am also fairly strict on requiring a closet clean out before shopping. This way my daughter sees the consequence of bad purchasing. Clothes turn into trash, which is an ecological nightmare. That has helped to curb the size of the wardrobe.
posted by shock muppet at 2:25 AM on August 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
I stopped doing back to school shopping. Better to fill holes in the wardrobe as they pop up than to plan ahead for the year. Get a new bra when you grow out of the old, buy workout gear when starting a coaching job, etc.
I am also fairly strict on requiring a closet clean out before shopping. This way my daughter sees the consequence of bad purchasing. Clothes turn into trash, which is an ecological nightmare. That has helped to curb the size of the wardrobe.
posted by shock muppet at 2:25 AM on August 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
I like the budget approach by cocoagirl above but I would also consider an optional “hobby budget” if fashion is her thing. I have one son who is really into a sport (playing and spectating) and I give him a budget that can go towards tickets or merch or expensive sport brands/shoes/etc.
One thing I learned being a non-fashion person in the fashion world is that it is just as much a means of self-expression as say photography or other textile arts, with a rich visual language and history. (Project Runway and Making the Cut are fun shows on those topics.) Just because she’s mass-market shopping doesn’t mean she isn’t learning fundamentals. It’s worth discussing.
On the flip side, if she’s shopping recreationally because she’s bored or her friends do, it’s worth talking about dealing with feelings and social relationships through buying (which is so normal for teens! Not an emergency.) so that she can form her own relationship to budgeting and buying and emotions.
Fast fashion is a blight on the world, and it’s worth discussing as a family (we do) but I do think expecting our young girls to resolve this societal problem through individual willpower at a time they are forming their public and social identities can border on cruel. In our home, which is boys, we discuss “enough” all the time and look for ways to reduce impact, walk, cycle, take transit, buy used, etc., but I try not to tie it to only one thing.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:20 AM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
One thing I learned being a non-fashion person in the fashion world is that it is just as much a means of self-expression as say photography or other textile arts, with a rich visual language and history. (Project Runway and Making the Cut are fun shows on those topics.) Just because she’s mass-market shopping doesn’t mean she isn’t learning fundamentals. It’s worth discussing.
On the flip side, if she’s shopping recreationally because she’s bored or her friends do, it’s worth talking about dealing with feelings and social relationships through buying (which is so normal for teens! Not an emergency.) so that she can form her own relationship to budgeting and buying and emotions.
Fast fashion is a blight on the world, and it’s worth discussing as a family (we do) but I do think expecting our young girls to resolve this societal problem through individual willpower at a time they are forming their public and social identities can border on cruel. In our home, which is boys, we discuss “enough” all the time and look for ways to reduce impact, walk, cycle, take transit, buy used, etc., but I try not to tie it to only one thing.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:20 AM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I hear you on not thrifting, but you might want to suggest your daughter try to at least sell her old clothes online to give her some extra money. I think young people like depop?
This might get her interested in buying some stuff used, and together with a budget, allow for some fun options.
Another thought would be to see if she was interested in learning to sew or alter clothes or e.g. leather purses? Even if she only does the class, it will give her a deep appreciation of the skills and probably more options to alter if she does buy different sizes used or on sale. (Ikea has a very reasonable starter sewing machine.)
See if there’s a class at a local design school or community college or a cooler sewing store unless she’s OK with a class of (likely) grandmas - let’s just say the demographics of different places can vary widely.
Strong agree with others who have pointed out how expensive it is to buy bras these days as well. However that might be an area where you encourage going to TJ Maxx or another outlet store. Still expensive, but takes a bit of the sting out.
posted by ec2y at 4:39 AM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
This might get her interested in buying some stuff used, and together with a budget, allow for some fun options.
Another thought would be to see if she was interested in learning to sew or alter clothes or e.g. leather purses? Even if she only does the class, it will give her a deep appreciation of the skills and probably more options to alter if she does buy different sizes used or on sale. (Ikea has a very reasonable starter sewing machine.)
See if there’s a class at a local design school or community college or a cooler sewing store unless she’s OK with a class of (likely) grandmas - let’s just say the demographics of different places can vary widely.
Strong agree with others who have pointed out how expensive it is to buy bras these days as well. However that might be an area where you encourage going to TJ Maxx or another outlet store. Still expensive, but takes a bit of the sting out.
posted by ec2y at 4:39 AM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have been you. My then-teen daughter went to a rich-kid private school. Granted it was a school where they focused on being a good person and where there wasn't as much bullying, but we definitely had to address the clothes issue.
The solution for this is not a *thrift* store but a *consignment* store. It's basically a place where people will take their designer and other upscale clothes to resell, but since they're used, you buy them for much cheaper prices. I was able to get away with about two 500-600$ shopping expeditions a year.
However, you as their dad may not be equipped to take them to such a store and encourage them to have fun at such a store. Part of the fun of such a store is going and trying on literally everything in the store and then having to figure out what you buy with your cash. But that does take literally hours, and if you are not yourself trying things on, then it becomes the teen trying things on and making you wait, while they are conscious of you waiting. Whereas if they are there with someone else, it becomes a fun 'the teen dresses the adult like a Barbie doll while also trying things on for themselves'. I have personally gone with other people's teens: they have put me in wedding dresses, glitter jumpsuits, and leopard prints.
Do you have a female friend that your teen likes who would be happy to serve this purpose and hold the cash?
posted by corb at 5:49 AM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
The solution for this is not a *thrift* store but a *consignment* store. It's basically a place where people will take their designer and other upscale clothes to resell, but since they're used, you buy them for much cheaper prices. I was able to get away with about two 500-600$ shopping expeditions a year.
However, you as their dad may not be equipped to take them to such a store and encourage them to have fun at such a store. Part of the fun of such a store is going and trying on literally everything in the store and then having to figure out what you buy with your cash. But that does take literally hours, and if you are not yourself trying things on, then it becomes the teen trying things on and making you wait, while they are conscious of you waiting. Whereas if they are there with someone else, it becomes a fun 'the teen dresses the adult like a Barbie doll while also trying things on for themselves'. I have personally gone with other people's teens: they have put me in wedding dresses, glitter jumpsuits, and leopard prints.
Do you have a female friend that your teen likes who would be happy to serve this purpose and hold the cash?
posted by corb at 5:49 AM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
In addition to what everyone else has said, I'd keep in mind that your family circumstances this year have been somewhat unique. Establishing a wardrobe from, essentially, scratch is always going to cost more on a monthly basis than replacing items that are worn/outgrown. And I'd expect mistakes to be made in the process of doing so for the first time. Plus, even if the 14-year-old did shop at Target etc., if she'd be getting into adult sizes then I'd expect a larger bill than for the 11-year-old. Nothing about what you're describing sounds outlandish to me, and it's entirely possible to course-correct at this point to a more sustainable plan.
Fundamentally, if this is in part a hobby for her, or even "just" a very meaningful mode of self-expression amongst her wealthier classmates, then I'm really not surprised that an open-ended task like "buy clothes for at Dad's" without a firm budget has ballooned beyond where you're entirely comfortable. So I wouldn't hold the purchases thus far against her in any sense: I'd just see this as a time to stop and take stock of what you already have and decide what the actual needs going forward are. If mistakes have been made, you both contributed: it's not like she spent the money all on her own. I think you do realize that, but you also say you're fighting, so that's why I wanted to give a framing that lets you both separate what's already happened from what the plan going forward is. If you have limited money for a while compared to what might be available on average otherwise, that's real, but as much as possible try to just consider this a fresh start on clothing budget money management.
If, upon deliberate consideration, it turns out you all still not done with the "establishing" phase, then conscientiously help her wrap that up before getting into the "managing her own budget" phase, whatever that will look like. I think that's only fair since most kids transitioning to having a budget to manage, at whatever age, typically would be working from a solid base of clothing their parent(s) had largely chosen. And if she does already have "enough," great, you've achieved that goal even if it did cost more than you'd wanted it to. It's not like you're ever going to have to do it again: now it's maintenance/updates instead of a total overhaul. That's the phase where you agree on the likely future needs and how much money is available to address them, subject to reevaluation in maybe six months or the beginning of next year if calendar-year budgeting makes most sense to you both.
posted by teremala at 7:38 AM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Fundamentally, if this is in part a hobby for her, or even "just" a very meaningful mode of self-expression amongst her wealthier classmates, then I'm really not surprised that an open-ended task like "buy clothes for at Dad's" without a firm budget has ballooned beyond where you're entirely comfortable. So I wouldn't hold the purchases thus far against her in any sense: I'd just see this as a time to stop and take stock of what you already have and decide what the actual needs going forward are. If mistakes have been made, you both contributed: it's not like she spent the money all on her own. I think you do realize that, but you also say you're fighting, so that's why I wanted to give a framing that lets you both separate what's already happened from what the plan going forward is. If you have limited money for a while compared to what might be available on average otherwise, that's real, but as much as possible try to just consider this a fresh start on clothing budget money management.
If, upon deliberate consideration, it turns out you all still not done with the "establishing" phase, then conscientiously help her wrap that up before getting into the "managing her own budget" phase, whatever that will look like. I think that's only fair since most kids transitioning to having a budget to manage, at whatever age, typically would be working from a solid base of clothing their parent(s) had largely chosen. And if she does already have "enough," great, you've achieved that goal even if it did cost more than you'd wanted it to. It's not like you're ever going to have to do it again: now it's maintenance/updates instead of a total overhaul. That's the phase where you agree on the likely future needs and how much money is available to address them, subject to reevaluation in maybe six months or the beginning of next year if calendar-year budgeting makes most sense to you both.
posted by teremala at 7:38 AM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
These are great recs, especially involving her in creating the budget and doing a closet clean out / review before shopping (which might just mean "periodically").
I just wanted to add something that is probably too harsh to "stand on" but might be a good seed to plant for later: if you're buying trend pieces that you won't want to wear anymore in two years it doesn't matter if you get the two year quality version or the twenty year quality version. It's gonna be trash in two years anyway. And sometimes maybe that's ok but it's a good life lesson to notice which things are real durable closet staples and which things are not.
posted by Lady Li at 8:16 AM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I just wanted to add something that is probably too harsh to "stand on" but might be a good seed to plant for later: if you're buying trend pieces that you won't want to wear anymore in two years it doesn't matter if you get the two year quality version or the twenty year quality version. It's gonna be trash in two years anyway. And sometimes maybe that's ok but it's a good life lesson to notice which things are real durable closet staples and which things are not.
posted by Lady Li at 8:16 AM on August 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I can't speak to $ you should set budget at, but can give a suggestion to help the budget meet the complex needs. I just introduced a teen who had spending challenges to Mercari.com. You can do a specific search for a brand, size, color etc. and set a notification for when good condition used items become available. The teen in question is on a tight clothing/gear budget but finding the exact same item very lightly used can go a LONG way and is way more environmentally and socially responsible than fast fashion- an issue that many teens care about. On my end, its been rewarding to see the teens' excitement about finding a great deal and weighing with better scrutiny which brands/products hold up and hold value over time. We also had an interesting conversation last month about Maslow's hierarchy of needs noting that clothing is listed as very basic (physiological w food and shelter) but in modern life also shows up elsewhere (esteem, acceptance)- and we reflected together on the 'whys'.
posted by iiniisfree at 12:26 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by iiniisfree at 12:26 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
We did $100/month for clothing for both our teens. If they wanted a bigger ticket item, they'd ask for it for Christmas/birthday. They also had $20-30 allowance per month that they could put toward clothes if they wanted. We sometimes gave lump sums for outerwear and shoes if they were necessary and not fashion purchases. We paid for all clothing for sports and activities.
We set the amount together as a family. My husband and I have the same clothing budget.
Our daughter started working at age 15 because she wanted more money for clothes. She also got into the habit of thrifting. Our son saves his for months and then does a big shopping spree at once.
posted by alicat at 5:14 PM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
We set the amount together as a family. My husband and I have the same clothing budget.
Our daughter started working at age 15 because she wanted more money for clothes. She also got into the habit of thrifting. Our son saves his for months and then does a big shopping spree at once.
posted by alicat at 5:14 PM on August 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Long time since I had a teenager but I very much support the folks that suggest giving a great deal of autonomy to the kiddo in re selling old stuff and reinvesting in newer items. Nothing builds a sense of “this money stuff, it’s worth something” than some of that.
Good luck.
P.S., I am also completely disconnected from the “fashion” thing, but this works for anything: hobbies, etc.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:41 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Good luck.
P.S., I am also completely disconnected from the “fashion” thing, but this works for anything: hobbies, etc.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:41 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
$1700 since LAST JANUARY doesn’t seem crazy at all considering today’s prices even at the cheap stores. I just spent $50 on socks and a hairclip at H&M. ESPECIALLY considering this is for a girl at an extremely sensitive age in a private school.
I think all the above ideas about stressing this kid out with budgets and frugalness and all the horrors of sweatshop labor, seem damaging for this age. I guarantee this kid has enough to worry about without worrying about this on this level.
Also, literally one pair of pants, a dress, and a t-shirt at most places will add up to almost $200, which is what she has been spending. That seems pretty reasonable per month, so if you can I’d stick with that, or maybe drop it to $150 a month if truly necessary.
Inflation is insane with clothing, and making her order used stuff online, not knowing if it’s going to fit her CHANGING body just sounds like absolute torture. If adults wanna mess around with that exhausting psychological shitshow, then fine. But no kid in junior high should have to unless it really is necessary.
posted by asimplemouse at 5:45 AM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think all the above ideas about stressing this kid out with budgets and frugalness and all the horrors of sweatshop labor, seem damaging for this age. I guarantee this kid has enough to worry about without worrying about this on this level.
Also, literally one pair of pants, a dress, and a t-shirt at most places will add up to almost $200, which is what she has been spending. That seems pretty reasonable per month, so if you can I’d stick with that, or maybe drop it to $150 a month if truly necessary.
Inflation is insane with clothing, and making her order used stuff online, not knowing if it’s going to fit her CHANGING body just sounds like absolute torture. If adults wanna mess around with that exhausting psychological shitshow, then fine. But no kid in junior high should have to unless it really is necessary.
posted by asimplemouse at 5:45 AM on August 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have two daughters, only slightly younger, and I haven't spent $1700 between them on clothes. Not even close. First their clothes last a long time for the most part. The only reason to buy new stuff is their size is changing dramatically, which by 10-14 is mostly over. Yes, bras and shoes are expensive, but there is no need to buy a new one of those every week. My wife doesn't even have that many bras.
If you are going to spend that much, even half that much, then get a Gap rewards card, and lots of it will be free.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:56 AM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you are going to spend that much, even half that much, then get a Gap rewards card, and lots of it will be free.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:56 AM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
I know you said no thrifting, but Vinted seems kind of popular with teens (at least in the UK) and at least doesn’t mean having to go and walk round thrift shops and root through all the stuff you don’t want in vague hope of finding something good. Though I guess it would cut down on the number of hand-me-downs available for your younger daughter.
posted by penguin pie at 2:37 PM on August 20, 2023 [4 favorites]