I want a divorce but I can't leave.
August 19, 2023 9:36 AM Subscribe
I want a divorce but I can't leave because I don't want to traumatize my child, nor can we each afford to live alone in this city. What are our options? What's the right thing to do?
My spouse and I have been together for twenty years. We live in an expensive American city in a small apartment with our one child. We've never had the most passionate marriage but we've always been good friends and we enjoy a lot of the same things. We used to have more sex but things really dropped off in that department after we had our kid - for about 10 years we've been having sex rarely but enjoying being parents and watching our kid grow. I thought I was mostly ok with this arrangement and I haven't sought sex outside of the relationship and I don't think they have, either. I devote a lot of time to my hobbies, am writing a novel, and have been writing more commercial things with a writing partner, and I exercise regularly. I've also seen a therapist for complex trauma and my own childhood sexual abuse issues for many years. I thought I was relatively content until recently, when my mother's death made me start re-evaluating my own life, my marriage, my responsibilities to my family, and my future.
My spouse is a good person but they do not really work on themselves. We are both well on towards fifty now and they don't seem to think about getting older, or the marriage, or their role as a parent or spouse. If they do, they don't share their feelings with me. They never bring up any of these topics in conversation or come to me with any issue they want to talk through - it's honestly as though I am the partner who is solely responsible for tending to the relationship and looking at our life holistically. Even the subject of moving to a bigger place in a different city where we could have a better quality of life has taken them years to even consider. I used to joke to a close friend that it took my spouse a year to decide on which coffee pot to buy so we'd be living here in 800 sq ft forever. Now, it isn't a joke at all. It's reality, and it feels hopeless, and wholly emblematic of how inert our situation really is.
I try to talk about these things with them but whenever I voice complaints, they complain that I'm attacking them, or they just wait me out until I "get over it", which means they listen to me talk, complain that they can't do anything right, and then I back off and feel guilty for having needs. Honestly, they have never brought up a marital issue to me once in 20 years. They're entirely conflict avoidant, and interpret any attempt at simple communication as conflict. But they're also intimacy avoidant, too; they're fine as long as someone cooks and cleans and occasionally goes out to a restaurant or concert with them. (They game regularly with friends, fwiw, so I'm not their only source of companionship.) This is very typical of their family - their way of handling conflict is to ignore or avoid it, or to do things differently for awhile but backslide into the way things were. I've come to wonder if my spouse just doesn't understand themselves, or their own feelings are too painful or threatening to face so they just avoid having or parsing them altogether. Maybe they just don't trust me at all. (This thought really hurts.) Mostly now I just feel like a failure or an enabler, which enrages me, because I've worked so hard in therapy to get better and they refuse to do any work of that sort, and it just makes me shut down entirely occasionally. Only then do they come around seeking some kind of reassurance that "everything is ok."
My mother died this year and I am now re-evaluating so many things in my life. I've realized that I am really unhappy in this relationship and that if I don't do something I'm going to be stuck in an intimacy starved marriage for the rest of my life. I actually WANT to have sex now, a lot, as it turns out, and I need to be able to grieve my mother with actual emotional support from my spouse. But when I turn to my spouse for closeness of any kind the dynamic is the same as it has been for awhile and it's just not comforting or satisfying for either of us. I clearly want intimacy I'm not getting, and it's becoming a very large issue.
So, I'm contemplating a divorce. I love my spouse but it's not enough. Two things are stopping me - one, our child and two, our financial situation.
I work in entertainment, and I'm watching AI wreak havoc on businesses like mine. I provide our health insurance. My spouse is a programmer and has been out of work for almost a year. We have been living off one freelance gig they did this year, my income, which has dropped off some since Covid, and our savings from Covid, when we were both gainfully employed and worked from home. If we divorce, we would have to sell our home and split the proceeds to live, which would mean we'd then have to take on two apartments where we live and share custody of our kid here to keep from uprooting them entirely. So, splitting up would put us both in a worse financial situation than we are now if we stay here, or we'd both have to move out of state but to the same city to share custody, which is one of the conversations my spouse and I can't have because they only want to live where we live. It's all really overwhelming to think about.
I'm also just afraid of what a divorce will do to our child. They are in middle school and are just beginning to show tween anxieties and fears. Conversely, they're old enough now to say things to us like, "If you guys could just not fight for a week, I'd really appreciate it." So clearly they are suffering, and naturally that just compounds my already intense guilt feelings over wanting out.
I'm also afraid of what my spouse's trauma will do to them and, in turn, what they'll put me through if I ask for a divorce. They had a really awful mother who severely abused them and their sibling when they were young. Ultimately she was placed into a mental institution and they divorced but my spouse, their sibling and their dad never fully recovered emotionally from all they went through. For this reason, I fear they are unable to look at any kind of marital or relationship strife or break-up as something manageable, if painful, and that they will torture me for "abandoning" them.
This is to say nothing of legal fees we can't afford.
What would you do? What am I not considering? Have you been through something like this? How did you get through it? I'm really confused right now and don't know which end is up. Thanks for reading this, I know it's a long one.
My spouse and I have been together for twenty years. We live in an expensive American city in a small apartment with our one child. We've never had the most passionate marriage but we've always been good friends and we enjoy a lot of the same things. We used to have more sex but things really dropped off in that department after we had our kid - for about 10 years we've been having sex rarely but enjoying being parents and watching our kid grow. I thought I was mostly ok with this arrangement and I haven't sought sex outside of the relationship and I don't think they have, either. I devote a lot of time to my hobbies, am writing a novel, and have been writing more commercial things with a writing partner, and I exercise regularly. I've also seen a therapist for complex trauma and my own childhood sexual abuse issues for many years. I thought I was relatively content until recently, when my mother's death made me start re-evaluating my own life, my marriage, my responsibilities to my family, and my future.
My spouse is a good person but they do not really work on themselves. We are both well on towards fifty now and they don't seem to think about getting older, or the marriage, or their role as a parent or spouse. If they do, they don't share their feelings with me. They never bring up any of these topics in conversation or come to me with any issue they want to talk through - it's honestly as though I am the partner who is solely responsible for tending to the relationship and looking at our life holistically. Even the subject of moving to a bigger place in a different city where we could have a better quality of life has taken them years to even consider. I used to joke to a close friend that it took my spouse a year to decide on which coffee pot to buy so we'd be living here in 800 sq ft forever. Now, it isn't a joke at all. It's reality, and it feels hopeless, and wholly emblematic of how inert our situation really is.
I try to talk about these things with them but whenever I voice complaints, they complain that I'm attacking them, or they just wait me out until I "get over it", which means they listen to me talk, complain that they can't do anything right, and then I back off and feel guilty for having needs. Honestly, they have never brought up a marital issue to me once in 20 years. They're entirely conflict avoidant, and interpret any attempt at simple communication as conflict. But they're also intimacy avoidant, too; they're fine as long as someone cooks and cleans and occasionally goes out to a restaurant or concert with them. (They game regularly with friends, fwiw, so I'm not their only source of companionship.) This is very typical of their family - their way of handling conflict is to ignore or avoid it, or to do things differently for awhile but backslide into the way things were. I've come to wonder if my spouse just doesn't understand themselves, or their own feelings are too painful or threatening to face so they just avoid having or parsing them altogether. Maybe they just don't trust me at all. (This thought really hurts.) Mostly now I just feel like a failure or an enabler, which enrages me, because I've worked so hard in therapy to get better and they refuse to do any work of that sort, and it just makes me shut down entirely occasionally. Only then do they come around seeking some kind of reassurance that "everything is ok."
My mother died this year and I am now re-evaluating so many things in my life. I've realized that I am really unhappy in this relationship and that if I don't do something I'm going to be stuck in an intimacy starved marriage for the rest of my life. I actually WANT to have sex now, a lot, as it turns out, and I need to be able to grieve my mother with actual emotional support from my spouse. But when I turn to my spouse for closeness of any kind the dynamic is the same as it has been for awhile and it's just not comforting or satisfying for either of us. I clearly want intimacy I'm not getting, and it's becoming a very large issue.
So, I'm contemplating a divorce. I love my spouse but it's not enough. Two things are stopping me - one, our child and two, our financial situation.
I work in entertainment, and I'm watching AI wreak havoc on businesses like mine. I provide our health insurance. My spouse is a programmer and has been out of work for almost a year. We have been living off one freelance gig they did this year, my income, which has dropped off some since Covid, and our savings from Covid, when we were both gainfully employed and worked from home. If we divorce, we would have to sell our home and split the proceeds to live, which would mean we'd then have to take on two apartments where we live and share custody of our kid here to keep from uprooting them entirely. So, splitting up would put us both in a worse financial situation than we are now if we stay here, or we'd both have to move out of state but to the same city to share custody, which is one of the conversations my spouse and I can't have because they only want to live where we live. It's all really overwhelming to think about.
I'm also just afraid of what a divorce will do to our child. They are in middle school and are just beginning to show tween anxieties and fears. Conversely, they're old enough now to say things to us like, "If you guys could just not fight for a week, I'd really appreciate it." So clearly they are suffering, and naturally that just compounds my already intense guilt feelings over wanting out.
I'm also afraid of what my spouse's trauma will do to them and, in turn, what they'll put me through if I ask for a divorce. They had a really awful mother who severely abused them and their sibling when they were young. Ultimately she was placed into a mental institution and they divorced but my spouse, their sibling and their dad never fully recovered emotionally from all they went through. For this reason, I fear they are unable to look at any kind of marital or relationship strife or break-up as something manageable, if painful, and that they will torture me for "abandoning" them.
This is to say nothing of legal fees we can't afford.
What would you do? What am I not considering? Have you been through something like this? How did you get through it? I'm really confused right now and don't know which end is up. Thanks for reading this, I know it's a long one.
Will your spouse go to therapy (individual or as a couple)? Would they do so if it was clear to them the extent of your unhappiness? Would your spouse be willing to try being in an open-relationship? If you were getting sex/affection elsewhere, do you think you could be happy remaining with them as co-parent?
What am I not considering?
You wouldn't have to sell your house, one person could buy out the other, should that be more affordable than two market-rate rents.
posted by coffeecat at 9:57 AM on August 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
What am I not considering?
You wouldn't have to sell your house, one person could buy out the other, should that be more affordable than two market-rate rents.
posted by coffeecat at 9:57 AM on August 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'm sorry you are going through this. First off, you need to know that there are many ways to do divorce that can minimize damage all around, but a lot of that depends on whether or not you and your spouse can approach this amicably.
You do not need to go from zero to divorce in a few months. You can and should start with some couples counseling because even if that doesn't change your mind or make things better it will allow you both to enter into the next phase of your relationship with (hopefully) more understanding and compassion.
You are definitely creating narratives in your head about your spouse and that's not helpful to you or really fair to them. There's so much to think through and it is so overwhelming that of course you're coming up with all these worst case scenarios. Some therapy to help you consider options and create other potential narratives would help you and certainly help you go into any divorce process more clear headed.
If you can do this, then you and your spouse could look at continuing to cohabitate while pursuing separate lives (difficult but not impossible). You and your spouse could do birds' nest custody, where your child stays put and you either each get another small apartment or share a small apartment and you trade off staying in the home (again more complicated, but not impossible).
posted by brookeb at 10:00 AM on August 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
You do not need to go from zero to divorce in a few months. You can and should start with some couples counseling because even if that doesn't change your mind or make things better it will allow you both to enter into the next phase of your relationship with (hopefully) more understanding and compassion.
You are definitely creating narratives in your head about your spouse and that's not helpful to you or really fair to them. There's so much to think through and it is so overwhelming that of course you're coming up with all these worst case scenarios. Some therapy to help you consider options and create other potential narratives would help you and certainly help you go into any divorce process more clear headed.
If you can do this, then you and your spouse could look at continuing to cohabitate while pursuing separate lives (difficult but not impossible). You and your spouse could do birds' nest custody, where your child stays put and you either each get another small apartment or share a small apartment and you trade off staying in the home (again more complicated, but not impossible).
posted by brookeb at 10:00 AM on August 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
I read this memoir, What My Bones Know, where the author Stephanie Foo, details her fairly-horrifying childhood, abuse by possibly narcissistic parents and being abandoned by her two parents when she was a teenager, and her ongoing efforts to recover. Anyway I was reminded of this when you mentioned that your partner was conflict avoidant and simple communication as conflict. You also mentioned you have complex trauma too.
I have no advice to give you per se, only to recommend that book and not feel so alone.
posted by moiraine at 10:07 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have no advice to give you per se, only to recommend that book and not feel so alone.
posted by moiraine at 10:07 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm also just afraid of what a divorce will do to our child. They are in middle school and are just beginning to show tween anxieties and fears. Conversely, they're old enough now to say things to us like, "If you guys could just not fight for a week, I'd really appreciate it." So clearly they are suffering, and naturally that just compounds my already intense guilt feelings over wanting out.
As a tween whose parents fought a lot, the main emotion I felt when they told my sister and me that they were divorcing was relief.
The divorce wasn't easy, emotionally or financially, but I think it was much easier on my sister and me than continuing to live with parents who fought all the time would have been.
I second the advice to try couples counseling, as a way of getting issues on the table that your spouse refuses to discuss with you alone. Since you're seriously considering divorce as one possible outcome, I'd also recommend finding a decent divorce lawyer for a consultation about what you can do now to protect your and your child's interests in case of a divorce.
posted by brianogilvie at 10:38 AM on August 19, 2023 [28 favorites]
As a tween whose parents fought a lot, the main emotion I felt when they told my sister and me that they were divorcing was relief.
The divorce wasn't easy, emotionally or financially, but I think it was much easier on my sister and me than continuing to live with parents who fought all the time would have been.
I second the advice to try couples counseling, as a way of getting issues on the table that your spouse refuses to discuss with you alone. Since you're seriously considering divorce as one possible outcome, I'd also recommend finding a decent divorce lawyer for a consultation about what you can do now to protect your and your child's interests in case of a divorce.
posted by brianogilvie at 10:38 AM on August 19, 2023 [28 favorites]
I can't speak to divorce, but I can speak to being a child of divorced parents (yup, not easy or fun but far easier and more fun than being a child of parents who actively despise each other) and couples therapy (probably the primary reason I can't speak to divorce).
posted by Alterscape at 10:43 AM on August 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Alterscape at 10:43 AM on August 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
Divorce can look like a lot of different things. One couple I know rented a second apartment and kept the children in their main house and the parents moved in and out every other week, swapping places in the second apartment. Another couple got two places, but one place was via a friend who had a place they could stay for free for a while. A third couple found a duplex and each lived in different units so their child could come and go between the households. A fourth moved to separate rooms in the house, but continued to live together.
I know it's a lot to think about, but there are more the one ways to separate, and you can write your own story.
posted by Toddles at 10:59 AM on August 19, 2023 [20 favorites]
I know it's a lot to think about, but there are more the one ways to separate, and you can write your own story.
posted by Toddles at 10:59 AM on August 19, 2023 [20 favorites]
you are entitled to leave a marriage you do not want to be in. your child will be fine. they will probably be unhappy about it at first, which you should take seriously because this is their life and they have none of the control over their family structure that you do, but that’s fine. children survive ordinary unhappiness and stress.
it is important that you understand completely how entitled you are to leave a marriage because you want to, so as to avoid blaming your spouse for the great crime of being satisfied and not complaining or fighting enough (“Honestly, they have never brought up a marital issue to me once in 20 years. They're entirely conflict avoidant, and interpret any attempt at simple communication as conflict.”)
you want to get out, it’s natural to resent your partner for not knowing it and making it easy for you. natural but not fair.
if your spouse has not “tortured” you or your child in the past it is extremely a lot to pre-emptively blame them for doing so in an imaginary future. if they have done so before, that is of course a different thing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:02 AM on August 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
it is important that you understand completely how entitled you are to leave a marriage because you want to, so as to avoid blaming your spouse for the great crime of being satisfied and not complaining or fighting enough (“Honestly, they have never brought up a marital issue to me once in 20 years. They're entirely conflict avoidant, and interpret any attempt at simple communication as conflict.”)
you want to get out, it’s natural to resent your partner for not knowing it and making it easy for you. natural but not fair.
if your spouse has not “tortured” you or your child in the past it is extremely a lot to pre-emptively blame them for doing so in an imaginary future. if they have done so before, that is of course a different thing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:02 AM on August 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
I'm sorry. You sound so unhappy.
I'm going to break my advice into several parts. One: The Work. You are doing the work, the work on yourself and the work to have a relationship. You are doing the work of employment and insurance. You are doing the work of grieving (and I am so, so sorry, Anon. That just sucks.). You are doing the work of parenting, too. That's...a lot. And it's a lot to bear unpartnered and unsupported, and while your spouse is actively avoiding doing any of this work, and in fact shuts you down for mentioning it. I don't want this for you for the rest of your life, and I hope that you don't either. Divorce may be the thing that keeps you alive, as hard as it is going to be. You are carrying way too much of this partnership.
Two: Avoidance and neglect have consequences. I hear you caring about your spouse's history and trauma, and that speaks to your compassion and empathy. But your spouse's failure to do something...should it get a free pass? Forever? Until you die? Is there a reason why your unhappiness is the acceptable cost of his comfort? Divorce draws a line about what you will accept. It's a consequence of your spouse's avoidance. Enforcing that consequence is going to suck, but how much more than what has been (not) happening for years?
Three: Nitty-gritty. If you are on Facebook, join Kate Anthony's group, Should I Stay or Should I Go. (Link to her site; the podcasts may be helpful to you. As much as I dislike FB, the group, and the guides, have been really helpful.) You will learn that you are not alone. You will also get a better handle on approaching divorce as a dissolution of a failed business partnership and how to disentangle your financials. Even if you never use the information, you will have it. Read up on mediation, which may help reduce overall costs of divorce.
Four: Your child. Your child, like mine, is growing up in very difficult times. Something is going to send your child to the therapist's office, but it's not necessarily going to be because of the divorce. I know you will do your best by your child, who knows you are both imperfect and loving. It will be okay on the other side, eventually.
Five: Confusion and guilt. Because this stuff is hard. There aren't very many ways to make Hard Things easier. You sound clear in your reasoning, understandably scared of financial fallout, worried about the unknown unknowns...but what really comes through is your wish to be done with these relationship dynamics. Maybe discernment counseling could work? But you sound...done. That's not confusion. And if you're going to feel guilt, you could also feel it over things like wasted time, the absence of connection, etc., over things that can propel you forward. Life is so short!
Anyway, I am sending you a big hug and telling you that changing your life is possible, however difficult it looks from here. Wishing you courage and clarity.
posted by MonkeyToes at 11:32 AM on August 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
I'm going to break my advice into several parts. One: The Work. You are doing the work, the work on yourself and the work to have a relationship. You are doing the work of employment and insurance. You are doing the work of grieving (and I am so, so sorry, Anon. That just sucks.). You are doing the work of parenting, too. That's...a lot. And it's a lot to bear unpartnered and unsupported, and while your spouse is actively avoiding doing any of this work, and in fact shuts you down for mentioning it. I don't want this for you for the rest of your life, and I hope that you don't either. Divorce may be the thing that keeps you alive, as hard as it is going to be. You are carrying way too much of this partnership.
Two: Avoidance and neglect have consequences. I hear you caring about your spouse's history and trauma, and that speaks to your compassion and empathy. But your spouse's failure to do something...should it get a free pass? Forever? Until you die? Is there a reason why your unhappiness is the acceptable cost of his comfort? Divorce draws a line about what you will accept. It's a consequence of your spouse's avoidance. Enforcing that consequence is going to suck, but how much more than what has been (not) happening for years?
Three: Nitty-gritty. If you are on Facebook, join Kate Anthony's group, Should I Stay or Should I Go. (Link to her site; the podcasts may be helpful to you. As much as I dislike FB, the group, and the guides, have been really helpful.) You will learn that you are not alone. You will also get a better handle on approaching divorce as a dissolution of a failed business partnership and how to disentangle your financials. Even if you never use the information, you will have it. Read up on mediation, which may help reduce overall costs of divorce.
Four: Your child. Your child, like mine, is growing up in very difficult times. Something is going to send your child to the therapist's office, but it's not necessarily going to be because of the divorce. I know you will do your best by your child, who knows you are both imperfect and loving. It will be okay on the other side, eventually.
Five: Confusion and guilt. Because this stuff is hard. There aren't very many ways to make Hard Things easier. You sound clear in your reasoning, understandably scared of financial fallout, worried about the unknown unknowns...but what really comes through is your wish to be done with these relationship dynamics. Maybe discernment counseling could work? But you sound...done. That's not confusion. And if you're going to feel guilt, you could also feel it over things like wasted time, the absence of connection, etc., over things that can propel you forward. Life is so short!
Anyway, I am sending you a big hug and telling you that changing your life is possible, however difficult it looks from here. Wishing you courage and clarity.
posted by MonkeyToes at 11:32 AM on August 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
Do your best to put a pause on the rumination spiral you are caught up in, just temporarily, and take stock of your resources. Write them all down. By resources I mean: all of your relationships with family and friends and coworkers and neighbors and professionals you’ve worked with in the past, your monetary assets, the things you own that provide a service or value to you like a car or work tool, any skills you have that can other people might show interest in paying for, any social clubs or organizations you have access to or are local to your area and have a record of good works.
Look at your big list of everything you have to work with to help you out. You can use the result of this exercise to help point you towards the steps you should take first. Then when your circumstances have changed you can repeat it and see if you need to change trajectory or come at something from a different angle.
One thing could be that you can focus some time on making good connections for and with your kid so they have support outside of the home, like clubs and teachers and nearby friends with kind parents, knowledge of nearby safe places to spend time and confidence to navigate the world now that they are getting older. Then you can proceed with a divorce or whatever other life choice you make with assurance that your child will be able to thrive regardless, because they have a much more interwoven mesh of support.
It is entirely possible to have an open relationship while married with a child, although that does take a lot of communication and mutual buy-in from both spouses. Cost of living is so high that it’s increasingly common for people to stay in the same place despite breakups and divorce, and living with friends well into middle age is being normalized as well. There’s also the possibility of living with different family, like a parent or sibling, in a multi generational home - do you or your spouse have anyone like that nearby? That would also lead to more support for your kid. Of course only do that if the familial relationship could bear it, but it’s definitely something to consider. Think about different types of community and different types of family, and see if any seem possible or appeal to you.
In the immediate, invest in some ways to make masturbation more satisfying. That can look a million different ways for a million different people, but since you’ve not had much libido for a while you probably haven’t prioritized figuring out your body’s responses and desires as it is currently. These things change as we age in all sorts of ways. It’s not a replacement for sex with another person if you want that but it’s something you have complete control over that can significantly reduce stress and help bolster self worth and enduring the bureaucracies of life. Also hoo-boy if you have a clitoris there have been some serious innovations in toys made in the past decade.
posted by Mizu at 12:11 PM on August 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
Look at your big list of everything you have to work with to help you out. You can use the result of this exercise to help point you towards the steps you should take first. Then when your circumstances have changed you can repeat it and see if you need to change trajectory or come at something from a different angle.
One thing could be that you can focus some time on making good connections for and with your kid so they have support outside of the home, like clubs and teachers and nearby friends with kind parents, knowledge of nearby safe places to spend time and confidence to navigate the world now that they are getting older. Then you can proceed with a divorce or whatever other life choice you make with assurance that your child will be able to thrive regardless, because they have a much more interwoven mesh of support.
It is entirely possible to have an open relationship while married with a child, although that does take a lot of communication and mutual buy-in from both spouses. Cost of living is so high that it’s increasingly common for people to stay in the same place despite breakups and divorce, and living with friends well into middle age is being normalized as well. There’s also the possibility of living with different family, like a parent or sibling, in a multi generational home - do you or your spouse have anyone like that nearby? That would also lead to more support for your kid. Of course only do that if the familial relationship could bear it, but it’s definitely something to consider. Think about different types of community and different types of family, and see if any seem possible or appeal to you.
In the immediate, invest in some ways to make masturbation more satisfying. That can look a million different ways for a million different people, but since you’ve not had much libido for a while you probably haven’t prioritized figuring out your body’s responses and desires as it is currently. These things change as we age in all sorts of ways. It’s not a replacement for sex with another person if you want that but it’s something you have complete control over that can significantly reduce stress and help bolster self worth and enduring the bureaucracies of life. Also hoo-boy if you have a clitoris there have been some serious innovations in toys made in the past decade.
posted by Mizu at 12:11 PM on August 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
I just... people who are well-meaning and offering advice about how much better their childhood was after divorce were growing up in a totally different time and a totally different economy. We live in a capitalist hellscape and rent is insane. Owning one two-bed apartment is a huge accomplishment, and renting two two-bedrooms doesn't sound feasible with one unemployed partner. Plus as the income-earning spouse, you do not want to be stuck paying alimony.)
You know what's cheaper than divorce? Therapy. Make an appointment and tell your spouse the two of you have to go because divorce is on the table. There are a LOT of people struggling through the New Divorce and trying to find workable models on living together apart but parenting together, and maybe you two can find your own way forward. It might not even include divorce right now.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:11 PM on August 19, 2023 [27 favorites]
You know what's cheaper than divorce? Therapy. Make an appointment and tell your spouse the two of you have to go because divorce is on the table. There are a LOT of people struggling through the New Divorce and trying to find workable models on living together apart but parenting together, and maybe you two can find your own way forward. It might not even include divorce right now.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:11 PM on August 19, 2023 [27 favorites]
I am sorry you are going through this; it's very painful and you are probably feeling very alone. Just want to share my experience: I went through a similar situation: married almost 20 years, 2 kids, living in an expensive area, with a traumatized conflict-avoidant spouse who just checked out of the marriage not long after having kids. I was frustrated and afraid of the consequences of all of my limited options, as you are. Long story short, went ahead with a divorce and yes it has been difficult, but I am so glad I did not waste any more years of my life in that marriage. The financial consequences are rough but worth it. My kids are better off. I still wish things had worked out, but I'm glad I finally made a decision to cut my losses and move on independently. It was the hardest few years of my life but no regrets. Good luck, lots of good advice in the other answers. Therapy and talking to a lawyer just to understand your risks and potential costs is a good start.
posted by j810c at 12:59 PM on August 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by j810c at 12:59 PM on August 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
Your child will be transitioning to high school soon. That’s your opportunity to make a big move. I would strongly consider a location change at that time.
Your child will turn out just fine with one engaged parent. You don’t say how engaged your partner is as a parent in your post, but it sounds like they might be pretty uninvolved. Don’t feel obligated to stick around for this.
posted by shock muppet at 1:16 PM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Your child will turn out just fine with one engaged parent. You don’t say how engaged your partner is as a parent in your post, but it sounds like they might be pretty uninvolved. Don’t feel obligated to stick around for this.
posted by shock muppet at 1:16 PM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
I firmly believe that unhealthy marriages can damage kids as much if not more than divorce, since that's where a child gets their modeling for what a committed romantic partnership is like. Studies even show that divorce shows better outcomes for children than staying in a high-conflict marriage, and yours sounds high-conflict based on what you say about your child asking you to not fight for a week. (Note: I think that study is imperfect in that it only focuses on behavioral outcomes for children, not on emotional impact, but even so, you might find it useful).
Right now you are modeling that staying in an unhappy marriage that does not nourish one is acceptable and preferable to an alternative. I chose to leave a marriage that was making me very unhappy, when it became clear to me that nothing would ever change, even though I had similar financial considerations and anxieties. It was practically quite difficult, and I am still dealing with the financial fallout of it to some extent, almost a decade later, but I don't regret it for a moment. And I think it was better for my son.
I don't know if you have floated the idea of couples therapy with your husband. I don't think couples therapy is a cure-all, and I also recognize that in your case, you pushing for it and probably arranging it would be yet another way in which the emotional labor of sustaining and fixing the relationship would fall to you, but I have seen several marriages where couples therapy was a "gateway" for the male partner to start exploring individual therapy and gaining some tools for working on themselves. You relationship does not sound abusive, so couples therapy would not be counter-indicated, and it might be worth trying it, as the fact of going to couples therapy might "objectify" for him that things are at a crisis point. It might also help you feel like you did everything you could.
Now, I also recognize that divorce in America is a right legally but practically can be more of a privilege. It does not sound like you would be homeless and destitute, but it does sound like your quality of life might drop. Are there practical options you might consider, like "nesting" (keeping the apartment and getting a studio you rotate in and out of on your weeks "off") to minimize the disruption to the kid, and the expense of two full-size places?
If you feel that you can't leave and can't set up a situation where you separate households at least somewhat, your options, as I can see them are:
a) keep status quo, continue feeling dissatisfied and resentful; possibly try to do personal work geared at radical acceptance through meditation or other kinds of spiritual solutions.
b) try to transition to an open marriage to get your romantic and sexual needs met outside your marriage until your child is done with high school. It's hard to do this in a healthy way with someone avoidant and non-communicative, but, on the other hand, sometimes people who are like your husband may well agree to a Don't Ask Don't Tell arrangement.
c) a more extreme version of (b) -- transition your relationship to just platonic co-parents and date separately.
d) if b) and c) are not acceptable to your husband, have an affair to try and get your romantic and sexual needs met -- not an ideal option, but life is complicated, and you won't get any judgment from me. Though depending on your social circle, you might experience judgment from others, and you would need to consider how you feel about lying to your spouse, and whether you have the kind of support network in your close friends that would allow you to confide in them if you want to process this kind of thing, or whether you would also need to lie to them. In other words, would this just be a secret from your husband, or would it be a secret from everyone, and in case of the latter, how isolating would that be for you?
All of those options (except the potential affair route) could also be discussed in couples therapy. You could also try something called "discernment therapy" geared at helping people realize whether they want to stay together or not.
posted by virve at 2:36 PM on August 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Right now you are modeling that staying in an unhappy marriage that does not nourish one is acceptable and preferable to an alternative. I chose to leave a marriage that was making me very unhappy, when it became clear to me that nothing would ever change, even though I had similar financial considerations and anxieties. It was practically quite difficult, and I am still dealing with the financial fallout of it to some extent, almost a decade later, but I don't regret it for a moment. And I think it was better for my son.
I don't know if you have floated the idea of couples therapy with your husband. I don't think couples therapy is a cure-all, and I also recognize that in your case, you pushing for it and probably arranging it would be yet another way in which the emotional labor of sustaining and fixing the relationship would fall to you, but I have seen several marriages where couples therapy was a "gateway" for the male partner to start exploring individual therapy and gaining some tools for working on themselves. You relationship does not sound abusive, so couples therapy would not be counter-indicated, and it might be worth trying it, as the fact of going to couples therapy might "objectify" for him that things are at a crisis point. It might also help you feel like you did everything you could.
Now, I also recognize that divorce in America is a right legally but practically can be more of a privilege. It does not sound like you would be homeless and destitute, but it does sound like your quality of life might drop. Are there practical options you might consider, like "nesting" (keeping the apartment and getting a studio you rotate in and out of on your weeks "off") to minimize the disruption to the kid, and the expense of two full-size places?
If you feel that you can't leave and can't set up a situation where you separate households at least somewhat, your options, as I can see them are:
a) keep status quo, continue feeling dissatisfied and resentful; possibly try to do personal work geared at radical acceptance through meditation or other kinds of spiritual solutions.
b) try to transition to an open marriage to get your romantic and sexual needs met outside your marriage until your child is done with high school. It's hard to do this in a healthy way with someone avoidant and non-communicative, but, on the other hand, sometimes people who are like your husband may well agree to a Don't Ask Don't Tell arrangement.
c) a more extreme version of (b) -- transition your relationship to just platonic co-parents and date separately.
d) if b) and c) are not acceptable to your husband, have an affair to try and get your romantic and sexual needs met -- not an ideal option, but life is complicated, and you won't get any judgment from me. Though depending on your social circle, you might experience judgment from others, and you would need to consider how you feel about lying to your spouse, and whether you have the kind of support network in your close friends that would allow you to confide in them if you want to process this kind of thing, or whether you would also need to lie to them. In other words, would this just be a secret from your husband, or would it be a secret from everyone, and in case of the latter, how isolating would that be for you?
All of those options (except the potential affair route) could also be discussed in couples therapy. You could also try something called "discernment therapy" geared at helping people realize whether they want to stay together or not.
posted by virve at 2:36 PM on August 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
I have seen several couples who have been married for 20+ years break up at least partly because they want to try dating apps. I’m not saying this is you, but just in case there’s some part of you excited to try the apps, you should know that they are absolute hell.
posted by dianeF at 4:38 PM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by dianeF at 4:38 PM on August 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am not your attorney. The best advice I can give is to consult an attorney to determine how much of these assumptions you and others are making (around the necessity of selling your home, around alimony, etc) are correct. Often you just have to pay for an hour of an attorney's time just to get an overall read on the situation. If you are a low income earner sometimes you will be able to get pro bono legal aid assistance just for an initial consultation. (they will not follow your case). If you are not able to afford an attorney at this time, the best non-legal advice as a fellow divorcer that I can give is to start saving up for an attorney, while doing your own legal research to figure out the answers to these questions are.
For example: when I was undergoing my own divorce, I needed to find out: which states could I get divorced in? And then, how did each state think of property? 9 particular states are "equitable division states", which split things 50/50, whereas others divide things according to the circumstances, which vary state to state, according to a number of different factors, including child custody and how that's handled.
Personally, I will say that the instant I started to divorce, even with it absolutely being a financial nightmare, it was like an enormous weight lifted off my shoulders, and the only thing I would do differently is to do it earlier. But you should at least know the risks you are taking before you make your decision.
posted by corb at 4:57 PM on August 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
For example: when I was undergoing my own divorce, I needed to find out: which states could I get divorced in? And then, how did each state think of property? 9 particular states are "equitable division states", which split things 50/50, whereas others divide things according to the circumstances, which vary state to state, according to a number of different factors, including child custody and how that's handled.
Personally, I will say that the instant I started to divorce, even with it absolutely being a financial nightmare, it was like an enormous weight lifted off my shoulders, and the only thing I would do differently is to do it earlier. But you should at least know the risks you are taking before you make your decision.
posted by corb at 4:57 PM on August 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
The devil is really in the details - questions I have are 1) are you able to pivot into another industry, in a similar role to your current one? Do you have friends/a network to help with this? (Failing that, I just want to throw out insurance as a highly paid industry that’s supposed to be kinder to more mature new entrants, and may not be as vulnerable to AI.) 2) Whether you stay in entertainment or not, do you need to be in a big city to work? 3) If you have to stay in your current city either to remain employed or for custody reasons, are there cheaper places in the suburbs?
Regarding any accusations of abandonment, groundless if you do therapy first or as you’re planning this (and maybe while you’re shoring up your resources for a job change?).
Best of luck through this.
I’m also very sorry for your loss.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:57 PM on August 19, 2023
Regarding any accusations of abandonment, groundless if you do therapy first or as you’re planning this (and maybe while you’re shoring up your resources for a job change?).
Best of luck through this.
I’m also very sorry for your loss.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:57 PM on August 19, 2023
c) a more extreme version of (b) -- transition your relationship to just platonic co-parents and date separately.
Frankly, that's what I was thinking looking at this.
This isn't a dire-on-fire, someone's-being-abused, you have to leave NOW situation. At best, it sounds meh/middling/unhappy, but nothing drastically horrible is going on as far as I can tell. I was thinking that if you can't financially split up and both of you can't be be 100% financially independent alone, can you be emotionally split up but still be roommates? Not be "together" any more emotionally but emotionally separated yet still pulling together financially?
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:01 PM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Frankly, that's what I was thinking looking at this.
This isn't a dire-on-fire, someone's-being-abused, you have to leave NOW situation. At best, it sounds meh/middling/unhappy, but nothing drastically horrible is going on as far as I can tell. I was thinking that if you can't financially split up and both of you can't be be 100% financially independent alone, can you be emotionally split up but still be roommates? Not be "together" any more emotionally but emotionally separated yet still pulling together financially?
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:01 PM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I am a child of divorce and divorced myself. In both instances, I was around 12 and my children were around 12. I obviously don't know you, your spouse or your chikd, but I think that kids are resilient, they are perceptive, and they adapt to changing circumstances. You seem to have made some assumptions about the trauma of divorce without the calculation of the trauma of parents who fight regularly. Moving or divorce or both could actually be a positive for your child. A fresh start could be a good thing.
Having said that, the one concern I have is that your child is an only child. I am one of three and I have three so what I say next is speculation, but I hope you consider it. No matter what was happening with my parents, my brothers and I had each other. We could talk to each other about internal family issues that we were unlikely to talk to an outsider about. My three are very close in age and were already tight, but they stuck together in ways that both my ex and I were proud of. When, as or if you do divorce, make sure your child has an emotional support. Maybe it is a trusted relative or a therapist.
I don't know who said it first, but I rarely regret the things I did. It is the things I didn't do that I regret. You don't want to grow old being bitter or emotionally alone.
Good luck. You got this.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:04 PM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having said that, the one concern I have is that your child is an only child. I am one of three and I have three so what I say next is speculation, but I hope you consider it. No matter what was happening with my parents, my brothers and I had each other. We could talk to each other about internal family issues that we were unlikely to talk to an outsider about. My three are very close in age and were already tight, but they stuck together in ways that both my ex and I were proud of. When, as or if you do divorce, make sure your child has an emotional support. Maybe it is a trusted relative or a therapist.
I don't know who said it first, but I rarely regret the things I did. It is the things I didn't do that I regret. You don't want to grow old being bitter or emotionally alone.
Good luck. You got this.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:04 PM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Your mom just died in the last few months, and that clearly has affected you. Might some of these feelings be related to that, and might it be worth working that through (on your own and with your spouse, with respect to how it is affecting you and your feelings about your relationship) before instigating something is big as a divorce? It sounds like your relationship with your spouse has not been ideal for a while. It also seems that things feel Very Urgent right now, but that could be due to the Very Big Feelings associated with losing your mom more than anything irreconcilable with your spouse.
This isn’t to say that divorce is the *wrong* answer, it just seems worth considering, in light of the current circumstances, whether there might be some other, better answer.
Also, I’m very sorry for your loss of your mom.
posted by 2 cats in the yard at 2:33 AM on August 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
This isn’t to say that divorce is the *wrong* answer, it just seems worth considering, in light of the current circumstances, whether there might be some other, better answer.
Also, I’m very sorry for your loss of your mom.
posted by 2 cats in the yard at 2:33 AM on August 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
OP, your story resonated strongly with me about my former marriage. I had an experience very much like what j810c wrote. I am also very, very glad I got out of that marriage and, for the sake of my own mental health and that of my kids, wish I had gotten out of it years before.
One thing I'd add here. People who deal with the ways humans are terrible to each other include neglect right alongside abuse. In many ways, neglect is more insidious than abuse because abuse involves actions, is proactive and evident. Neglect is all about the things that should happen but don't so it's a lot harder to parse and understand. Being married to a passive, checked out partner is a real mindfuck.... understanding this concept made a whole lot of things clear to me.
Wish you and your child the best.
posted by Sublimity at 5:56 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
One thing I'd add here. People who deal with the ways humans are terrible to each other include neglect right alongside abuse. In many ways, neglect is more insidious than abuse because abuse involves actions, is proactive and evident. Neglect is all about the things that should happen but don't so it's a lot harder to parse and understand. Being married to a passive, checked out partner is a real mindfuck.... understanding this concept made a whole lot of things clear to me.
Wish you and your child the best.
posted by Sublimity at 5:56 PM on August 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was you for a very long time.
Spouse asked for a divorce in June.
We're in the process of mediation right now but it's a relief. I'm dating, and feel like my old self again, lost for many years. We take it day by day with the kid.
Please MeMail me.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:21 AM on August 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Spouse asked for a divorce in June.
We're in the process of mediation right now but it's a relief. I'm dating, and feel like my old self again, lost for many years. We take it day by day with the kid.
Please MeMail me.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:21 AM on August 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
I would like to highlight 2 cats in the yard's comment above.
My experience is different than yours but I was lucky because I found a lot of support and recovery before filing for divorce. It not only helped me get through it, but helped me make the right decision.
You have a lot going on with the your mother's death and struggling marriage. Finding support, therapy and recovery for yourself is going to help you make the right decision, and stick to it. If you focus on yourself, in 6 to 12 months your perspective will different and it will be easier to decide what you should do.
I wish you the best!
posted by redyaky at 2:01 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
My experience is different than yours but I was lucky because I found a lot of support and recovery before filing for divorce. It not only helped me get through it, but helped me make the right decision.
You have a lot going on with the your mother's death and struggling marriage. Finding support, therapy and recovery for yourself is going to help you make the right decision, and stick to it. If you focus on yourself, in 6 to 12 months your perspective will different and it will be easier to decide what you should do.
I wish you the best!
posted by redyaky at 2:01 PM on August 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
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If you don’t see a path forward to happiness with your partner, you should divorce. It might be tough for your kid but probably not traumatic. It may even be good for your child to see an example of you taking care of your own needs.
posted by mai at 9:54 AM on August 19, 2023 [12 favorites]