What is it like to be an indirect communicator and/or people pleaser?
August 13, 2023 12:48 PM Subscribe
I want to interact with the people pleasers and indirect communicators in my life more effectively. I am the opposite of both of these things. I communicate very directly and have no problems asking for what I want/need (in MeFi terms, I'm an extreme Ask, I guess).
I seem to often make these types of people miserable by bulldozing them. This is not my intention, I just can't fathom any way of interacting but my own and it takes me too long to realize I'm doing it. I always assume people will tell me what they need. If they don't, I don't even know where to begin guessing and often get it wrong. I get along with people who are able to assert themselves very well. Please share your experiences being an indirect communicator and/or people pleaser, or your tips for getting along with them when you aren't one!
I seem to often make these types of people miserable by bulldozing them. This is not my intention, I just can't fathom any way of interacting but my own and it takes me too long to realize I'm doing it. I always assume people will tell me what they need. If they don't, I don't even know where to begin guessing and often get it wrong. I get along with people who are able to assert themselves very well. Please share your experiences being an indirect communicator and/or people pleaser, or your tips for getting along with them when you aren't one!
Response by poster: Do you have any tips on phrasing? I naturally ask a lot of questions and for some reason people often take them as something other (and worse) than a simple request for information.
posted by wheatlets at 1:16 PM on August 13, 2023
posted by wheatlets at 1:16 PM on August 13, 2023
It might help to start off by thinking that this person you are talking to may understand the situation differently - for instance, the person you are asking for TPS report might know that the team who produces TPS reports is only available Mon-Wed, and also that you don't actually need the TPS report because, as of FY23, only people who work in Sector 7G need to include an up-to-date TPS report when they submit for budget approval.
I don't know you and don't know what you mean by being "direct" but I do know a few folks who think just repeating the same thing over and over is being direct. And they will keep asking a question that cannot be answered despite being told things like "the 7:30 shuttle doesn't run on Tuesday and therefore...." or "you need to understand that beneficial owner registration is still required in Panama so we must...."
Either way, trying meeting people where they are. Everyone else's time is just as important as yours.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:27 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't know you and don't know what you mean by being "direct" but I do know a few folks who think just repeating the same thing over and over is being direct. And they will keep asking a question that cannot be answered despite being told things like "the 7:30 shuttle doesn't run on Tuesday and therefore...." or "you need to understand that beneficial owner registration is still required in Panama so we must...."
Either way, trying meeting people where they are. Everyone else's time is just as important as yours.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:27 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Those people sound awful! By "direct", I don't mean I'd ask the same question over and over if it couldn't be answered. I mean more along the lines of - if I'm cold, I'll ask "Would you mind closing the window?" whereas an indirect person might say "Sure is cold in here" and expect you to understand that they want the window closed.
posted by wheatlets at 1:37 PM on August 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by wheatlets at 1:37 PM on August 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Some examples might help, and I don't know the specific people in question, but: assume these people will try to do the things you ask them to do (for various often excellent reasons, not just "people pleasing" or what have you), unless you make it truly clear, from the beginning, that the things you are asking them to do are not actually important.
So make that clear. And ideally try to think about things from their perspective -- do they have the time, or energy, to be answering your questions? Will doing what you ask likely be annoying for them, or take them away from other more valuable things? If your requests aren't actually that important, maybe you don't need to be making them? If they are important enough to ask, but maybe not that important, again make it clear what the actual priority is, and show that you're aware of the fact that you're taking people away from their existing workload (or whatever, I'm kind of imagining a workplace context here) and real appreciation for their help.
On preview - I'd go with "I'm pretty cold - would it be okay if I closed the window, or would it be uncomfortable for you?" The idea is to take the other person's feelings and situation into account and show you know they're equally important to yours.
posted by trig at 1:42 PM on August 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
So make that clear. And ideally try to think about things from their perspective -- do they have the time, or energy, to be answering your questions? Will doing what you ask likely be annoying for them, or take them away from other more valuable things? If your requests aren't actually that important, maybe you don't need to be making them? If they are important enough to ask, but maybe not that important, again make it clear what the actual priority is, and show that you're aware of the fact that you're taking people away from their existing workload (or whatever, I'm kind of imagining a workplace context here) and real appreciation for their help.
On preview - I'd go with "I'm pretty cold - would it be okay if I closed the window, or would it be uncomfortable for you?" The idea is to take the other person's feelings and situation into account and show you know they're equally important to yours.
posted by trig at 1:42 PM on August 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
You may find this article helpful: Women Know Exactly What They’re Doing When They Use ‘Weak Language’.
posted by nanook at 1:43 PM on August 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by nanook at 1:43 PM on August 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
"I want to interact with the people pleasers..."
For a start, "people pleaser" comes across quite judgemental. I am a person who has been called that and it isn't helpful. I might call myself a people pleaser but prefer others don't call me that.
I always assume people will tell me what they need
Let me suggest to start with changing this assumption, or at least question it and with it the premise that assuming people will tell you what they need is somehow "better".
By asking people what they need, and listening to the answer you can open new ways to communicate.
So phrase your question openly, (as in trigs last paragraph) because perhaps you are cold and want to shut the window but they are hot/worried about COVID/whatever.
If someone said to me "Would you mind closing the window?" I would hear this as a request with no option, and would feel bulldozed.
There is in my opinion no need to reduce to "Sure is cold in here".
A middleground is trig's: "I'm pretty cold - would it be okay if I closed the window, or would it be uncomfortable for you?"
This version leaves room for the other person to agree/disagree. More likely, if they are like me they might feel cold but assume that you prefer the window open and not wish to inconvenience you...
posted by 15L06 at 1:58 PM on August 13, 2023 [20 favorites]
For a start, "people pleaser" comes across quite judgemental. I am a person who has been called that and it isn't helpful. I might call myself a people pleaser but prefer others don't call me that.
I always assume people will tell me what they need
Let me suggest to start with changing this assumption, or at least question it and with it the premise that assuming people will tell you what they need is somehow "better".
By asking people what they need, and listening to the answer you can open new ways to communicate.
So phrase your question openly, (as in trigs last paragraph) because perhaps you are cold and want to shut the window but they are hot/worried about COVID/whatever.
If someone said to me "Would you mind closing the window?" I would hear this as a request with no option, and would feel bulldozed.
There is in my opinion no need to reduce to "Sure is cold in here".
A middleground is trig's: "I'm pretty cold - would it be okay if I closed the window, or would it be uncomfortable for you?"
This version leaves room for the other person to agree/disagree. More likely, if they are like me they might feel cold but assume that you prefer the window open and not wish to inconvenience you...
posted by 15L06 at 1:58 PM on August 13, 2023 [20 favorites]
I suggest learning about the various ways people can be sensitive in different cultures or upbringings.
For example, even though you consider yourself direct, you would probably avoid commenting on your female friend's weight gain or the fact that your male friend earns a low salary.
In some cultures, it's extremely rude to suggest that someone is a bad host. Asking them to close the window because it's cold suggests that they (the host) did a poor job of making you (the guest) physically comfortable. In some cultures, it's not really offensive to say "wow, you really got fat this summer!" or "How much money do you earn?", but it's very rude to say "it's so cold in your house, please close the window".
Even though you consider yourself to be direct, there are probably areas where you're less wiling to be direct. In Western cultures, this would include commenting on how a guy is going bald, or how an acquaintance is showing signs of aging, or mentioning someone's physical disability when speaking to them. Western culture has so much focus on youth and beauty, and being direct about the lack thereof is considered rude in Western cultures.
That's how other people may feel about the areas where you're being direct.
posted by sandwich at 2:08 PM on August 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
For example, even though you consider yourself direct, you would probably avoid commenting on your female friend's weight gain or the fact that your male friend earns a low salary.
In some cultures, it's extremely rude to suggest that someone is a bad host. Asking them to close the window because it's cold suggests that they (the host) did a poor job of making you (the guest) physically comfortable. In some cultures, it's not really offensive to say "wow, you really got fat this summer!" or "How much money do you earn?", but it's very rude to say "it's so cold in your house, please close the window".
Even though you consider yourself to be direct, there are probably areas where you're less wiling to be direct. In Western cultures, this would include commenting on how a guy is going bald, or how an acquaintance is showing signs of aging, or mentioning someone's physical disability when speaking to them. Western culture has so much focus on youth and beauty, and being direct about the lack thereof is considered rude in Western cultures.
That's how other people may feel about the areas where you're being direct.
posted by sandwich at 2:08 PM on August 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Re the window thing - I might say “I’m a bit cold. Are you cold?” to see if we’re both experiencing an issue with the temperature.
Maybe we’re both cold. Then closing the window is a good solution.
Maybe they’re too warm though. Maybe they just opened the window before I came in, because they were uncomfortably warm. At that point it makes sense to consider other options. I could put on a sweater or change seats.
posted by bunderful at 2:12 PM on August 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Maybe we’re both cold. Then closing the window is a good solution.
Maybe they’re too warm though. Maybe they just opened the window before I came in, because they were uncomfortably warm. At that point it makes sense to consider other options. I could put on a sweater or change seats.
posted by bunderful at 2:12 PM on August 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
"Sure is cold in here" and expect you to understand that they want the window closed.
Part of the point of this style of communication is consensus building. The difference between "Sure is cold in here" and "Could you please close the window?" Is that the first is also a request for information. Do you think it's cold in here, too? Because if so, someone should, in fact, close the window, and you agree and the most sensible person to do it does it.
If you don't, then it's a negotiation over comfort levels from like, "Oh, I'm not cold, but I wouldn't mind closing the window for you!" to "I am actually still too warm, can we keep it open?"
If people are on the same wavelength, there are more outcomes where someone gets to be a nice and helpful person: doing something without being asked, and optimally, there's less chance of directly arguing over whether the window should be open or bet. Because then one person has to win and one person has to lose. And if you just go and ask something to do something without know that they're on board, well, you've made it into an oppositional situation rather than a cooperative situation which is Very Rude.
That's not to say that this rosy view is how it always works, or that bad actors don't play dumb to game the system, or just don't reciprocate responsiveness to implicit requests and so forth. In which case, yeah, be direct with that person.
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:29 PM on August 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Part of the point of this style of communication is consensus building. The difference between "Sure is cold in here" and "Could you please close the window?" Is that the first is also a request for information. Do you think it's cold in here, too? Because if so, someone should, in fact, close the window, and you agree and the most sensible person to do it does it.
If you don't, then it's a negotiation over comfort levels from like, "Oh, I'm not cold, but I wouldn't mind closing the window for you!" to "I am actually still too warm, can we keep it open?"
If people are on the same wavelength, there are more outcomes where someone gets to be a nice and helpful person: doing something without being asked, and optimally, there's less chance of directly arguing over whether the window should be open or bet. Because then one person has to win and one person has to lose. And if you just go and ask something to do something without know that they're on board, well, you've made it into an oppositional situation rather than a cooperative situation which is Very Rude.
That's not to say that this rosy view is how it always works, or that bad actors don't play dumb to game the system, or just don't reciprocate responsiveness to implicit requests and so forth. In which case, yeah, be direct with that person.
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:29 PM on August 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you, this totally makes sense. I never would have thought that someone would consider "Would you mind closing the window?" a request with no option to say no, because to me it's the beginning of a negotiation. I would expect someone to respond "I would really prefer the window open because I'm worried about COVID" and then we'd work out how to meet both our needs. So it seems like the answer is to be more explicit about the fact that I'm trying to invite negotiation, not make my say final.
posted by wheatlets at 2:41 PM on August 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by wheatlets at 2:41 PM on August 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
"I always assume people will tell me what they need."
It's probably time to retire that assumption. You're aware it's not the case, so it'd be best to proceed accordingly.
Consider whether your "ask" puts the other person in an awkward position, and consider how you can give them an out or don't ask at all. For example, I was taught never to go into someone's house and ask "hey, can I have some of that cake?" They might not want to share it, they may be saving it for an occasion, etc.
It's fine to ask for a glass of water, to use the bathroom, and so on - but otherwise wait for someone to offer rather than asking.
That applies in a lot of areas - let people offer rather than asking directly because people get tired of having to enforce boundaries. That goes for everything from sharing food to changing the environment in a room to many other things.
This may not apply to your situation but also avoid "trap" questions. e.g. "what are you doing Friday at 6?" when the follow-up could be anything from "can you take me to the airport?" or "would you like to come to my party?" If it's the party one you can just say "I'm having a party on Friday and you're welcome to come if you'd like." If it's the airport one, don't ask unless you really know the person well. :-)
Another thing I've noticed with "direct" folks is not taking a hint. A "maybe," "I'll think about it," or some other hedge or dodge is probably a no. Let people off the hook easily.
posted by jzb at 2:54 PM on August 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
It's probably time to retire that assumption. You're aware it's not the case, so it'd be best to proceed accordingly.
Consider whether your "ask" puts the other person in an awkward position, and consider how you can give them an out or don't ask at all. For example, I was taught never to go into someone's house and ask "hey, can I have some of that cake?" They might not want to share it, they may be saving it for an occasion, etc.
It's fine to ask for a glass of water, to use the bathroom, and so on - but otherwise wait for someone to offer rather than asking.
That applies in a lot of areas - let people offer rather than asking directly because people get tired of having to enforce boundaries. That goes for everything from sharing food to changing the environment in a room to many other things.
This may not apply to your situation but also avoid "trap" questions. e.g. "what are you doing Friday at 6?" when the follow-up could be anything from "can you take me to the airport?" or "would you like to come to my party?" If it's the party one you can just say "I'm having a party on Friday and you're welcome to come if you'd like." If it's the airport one, don't ask unless you really know the person well. :-)
Another thing I've noticed with "direct" folks is not taking a hint. A "maybe," "I'll think about it," or some other hedge or dodge is probably a no. Let people off the hook easily.
posted by jzb at 2:54 PM on August 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
Can you provide some examples of the pushback you've gotten, or times when you've felt like you're bulldozing someone? Opening a window or negotiating temperature often isn't that fraught, regardless of where you're coming from on the ask-guess spectrum; it might help to know if that's an actual example, or of the scenarios you mention are more complicated than that example.
posted by sagc at 3:03 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by sagc at 3:03 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I never would have thought that someone would consider "Would you mind closing the window?" a request with no option to say no, because to me it's the beginning of a negotiation.
That is exactly the cultural part of this. You aren't doing anything to signal that you view your question as just opening volley in what you expect to be a negotiation. They hear wheatlets wants the window shut, I should accommodate them if at all possible.
So, you need an opening that signifies that you want a conversation about windows open or shut rather than you just telling them what you want.
So, "I'm a bit chilly. How are you doing temperature-wise?" would be a good opening for a conversation about room temperature that would you calibrate how likely they are to care about the window. (Note - "Sure is cold in here" sounds very passive-aggressive to my American ears) They might still hear this as whetlets wants the window shut and ask you if that's what you meant or just offer to close it for you. At that point, I would feel comfortable accepting the offer but still leave a way for them to speak up. "Yes, if you don't mind"
posted by metahawk at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
That is exactly the cultural part of this. You aren't doing anything to signal that you view your question as just opening volley in what you expect to be a negotiation. They hear wheatlets wants the window shut, I should accommodate them if at all possible.
So, you need an opening that signifies that you want a conversation about windows open or shut rather than you just telling them what you want.
So, "I'm a bit chilly. How are you doing temperature-wise?" would be a good opening for a conversation about room temperature that would you calibrate how likely they are to care about the window. (Note - "Sure is cold in here" sounds very passive-aggressive to my American ears) They might still hear this as whetlets wants the window shut and ask you if that's what you meant or just offer to close it for you. At that point, I would feel comfortable accepting the offer but still leave a way for them to speak up. "Yes, if you don't mind"
posted by metahawk at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've been labeled a people-pleaser and I can be a poor communicator in the ways I don't always tell people what I want or need. I communicate very well with people I like and trust. Only one person directly called me a people-pleaser and I dislike her so it might be wise to keep armchair diagnoses to yourself.
The advice I would give to people who want to get along with "people-pleasers":
There is a line between genuine interest or curiosity and probing.
Listen and talk less about yourself.
Don't bring someone's experience back to your experience. If someone tells you they are going to Paris it doesn't mean you have to tell them about your cousin's trip to Paris, or talk too much about your trip to Paris.
Try to keep it positive and don't be a downer even if you are an honest communicator. If I tell someone that I'm excited to visit Paris I don't necessarily want to hear how they hated it.
Try not to interrupt too much or talk over people. Interruptions naturally happen in conversation and I'm rarely offended, but if people don't give me time to speak or constantly talk over me, I'm out. I shut down. I won't be interested in having more conversations with them.
Stay in your lane always. Don't advise.
posted by loveandhappiness at 3:46 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
The advice I would give to people who want to get along with "people-pleasers":
There is a line between genuine interest or curiosity and probing.
Listen and talk less about yourself.
Don't bring someone's experience back to your experience. If someone tells you they are going to Paris it doesn't mean you have to tell them about your cousin's trip to Paris, or talk too much about your trip to Paris.
Try to keep it positive and don't be a downer even if you are an honest communicator. If I tell someone that I'm excited to visit Paris I don't necessarily want to hear how they hated it.
Try not to interrupt too much or talk over people. Interruptions naturally happen in conversation and I'm rarely offended, but if people don't give me time to speak or constantly talk over me, I'm out. I shut down. I won't be interested in having more conversations with them.
Stay in your lane always. Don't advise.
posted by loveandhappiness at 3:46 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Metahawk - I appreciate you pointing out the passive aggressiveness of my example, because it helps illustrate what I'm trying to explain - I understand that people do hint, and why they hint.
What I don't know how to do is figure out when they're hinting, because there has to be plausible deniability for it to be a hint. Sometimes people who say “maybe” or “I'll think about it“ really do mean that. How do you know which is which?
I also can't figure out how to hint myself without coming off as an asshole, still too direct, or so vague that the hint isn't picked up.
posted by wheatlets at 3:47 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
What I don't know how to do is figure out when they're hinting, because there has to be plausible deniability for it to be a hint. Sometimes people who say “maybe” or “I'll think about it“ really do mean that. How do you know which is which?
I also can't figure out how to hint myself without coming off as an asshole, still too direct, or so vague that the hint isn't picked up.
posted by wheatlets at 3:47 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I never would have thought that someone would consider "Would you mind closing the window?" a request with no option to say no, because to me it's the beginning of a negotiation.
Wow, no no no - I am much more on the directness side of the spectrum but what you have in quotes there is essentially an order to close the window.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:54 PM on August 13, 2023 [18 favorites]
Wow, no no no - I am much more on the directness side of the spectrum but what you have in quotes there is essentially an order to close the window.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:54 PM on August 13, 2023 [18 favorites]
just memorize some "softening" phrases and experiment with those.
I am very direct, myself, and if I say "would you mind closing the window" what I mean is "please close that window." If I mean let's figure out whether my idea is acceptable to everyone here, I'd use phrases like:
"what do we think about..."
"what do you think about..."
"how's the [temperature in here, &c]..."
"do you think we ought to..."
"would it be a good idea if we..."
"is it time to..."
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:04 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am very direct, myself, and if I say "would you mind closing the window" what I mean is "please close that window." If I mean let's figure out whether my idea is acceptable to everyone here, I'd use phrases like:
"what do we think about..."
"what do you think about..."
"how's the [temperature in here, &c]..."
"do you think we ought to..."
"would it be a good idea if we..."
"is it time to..."
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:04 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
As a moderate "Guess" person who has gotten annoyed at "Askers" in the past, one thing I've noticed is that when I say no (or when I give a not-yes answer marked by a clear lack of enthusiasm, which another Guess person would understand as meaning no and would back off accordingly), Askers often treat that as the beginning of a negotiation. They begin coaxing, arguing for their own position, shooting down my stated reasons, etc. This makes me perceive the Ask person as pushy, which leads to me resenting and often disliking the Ask person intensely.
I get that in Ask world, it is assumed that each person will strongly advocate for their own interest until one person wins or a compromise is reached. In Guess world, it is assumed that each party would rather die than impose upon the other in any way. So when you have the Guess person trying very hard to not offend the Asker by saying no to a direct request, but the Asker is not doing their expected part of trying to not impose, your Guess person ends up feeling very put-upon.
I think a big thing to remember with Guess people is that anything less than an enthusiastic yes is a no. Guess people hate to say no, and we really resent being put in a position where we have to say it firmly and directly, or else feel like we've been railroaded into something we didn't want.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:20 PM on August 13, 2023 [14 favorites]
I get that in Ask world, it is assumed that each person will strongly advocate for their own interest until one person wins or a compromise is reached. In Guess world, it is assumed that each party would rather die than impose upon the other in any way. So when you have the Guess person trying very hard to not offend the Asker by saying no to a direct request, but the Asker is not doing their expected part of trying to not impose, your Guess person ends up feeling very put-upon.
I think a big thing to remember with Guess people is that anything less than an enthusiastic yes is a no. Guess people hate to say no, and we really resent being put in a position where we have to say it firmly and directly, or else feel like we've been railroaded into something we didn't want.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:20 PM on August 13, 2023 [14 favorites]
And just to expand a bit on the above... yes, Guess culture does lead to all sorts of misunderstandings and bullshit, which is not always easy to come back from. For example, 15 or so years ago my dad (who lives two states away) called me like a week before Christmas to chat, and sort of casually half-jokingly asked how we'd feel about having some company for Christmas (him.) I was taken aback, because our apartment was a complete mess and we'd already spent all of our money for the month on Christmas presents, so we wouldn't have any money to properly feed a guest or take him out to eat or do any activities. So when I uncomfortably started to stutter about it not being a good time, before I could even explain why he immediately backpedaled and changed the subject.
He has never suggested coming to visit me since then, and I never thought to invite him because we don't have a guest room so I'd basically be inviting him to come stay in a hotel. And it never occurred to me until recently that the reason he's never mentioned coming to visit is because of that one Christmas when I hurt his feelings. And it would be awkward for me to bring it up at this point because he's never TOLD me it hurt his feelings... arghhh.
So to be fair, I think Ask culture is a lot easier in a practical sense. But Guess people are the way they are because of the painful experience of having inadvertently offended someone, and the other painful experience of being imposed upon with no polite way to refuse, so there is a lot of emotion tangled up in the whole deal that makes it almost impossible to discuss it or change it.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:45 PM on August 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
He has never suggested coming to visit me since then, and I never thought to invite him because we don't have a guest room so I'd basically be inviting him to come stay in a hotel. And it never occurred to me until recently that the reason he's never mentioned coming to visit is because of that one Christmas when I hurt his feelings. And it would be awkward for me to bring it up at this point because he's never TOLD me it hurt his feelings... arghhh.
So to be fair, I think Ask culture is a lot easier in a practical sense. But Guess people are the way they are because of the painful experience of having inadvertently offended someone, and the other painful experience of being imposed upon with no polite way to refuse, so there is a lot of emotion tangled up in the whole deal that makes it almost impossible to discuss it or change it.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:45 PM on August 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that you have an impulse to speak up in the first place that the people you’re talking about don’t have. So the bulldozing may sometimes be more that you’re speaking up at all, and less your exact phrasing.
In a group where you’re the direct one and the others aren’t, your priorities take priority for everyone simply because the squeaky wheel gets the grease and they’ll never squeak. So there’s actually a bit of injustice there that you have the power to address, if you’re truly interested. The window thing isn’t an injustice per se, but one person setting the temp for the group is kinda dictatorial despite your obviously innocent intent.
So instead of using your directness to work your will, there might be situations you could practice using it to give others a voice or getting consensus—or just dropping it entirely if it’s, e.g., a temperature preference and not a big deal. Picking your battles is one way to accommodate other opinions.
Also I think the world needs both sorts of people—do you? I’m a pleaser by nature and it would be awful if everyone were like me—where would we go eat? But also imagine how obnoxious it would be if everyone constantly asserted every minor preference—where would we go eat?
posted by kapers at 5:08 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
In a group where you’re the direct one and the others aren’t, your priorities take priority for everyone simply because the squeaky wheel gets the grease and they’ll never squeak. So there’s actually a bit of injustice there that you have the power to address, if you’re truly interested. The window thing isn’t an injustice per se, but one person setting the temp for the group is kinda dictatorial despite your obviously innocent intent.
So instead of using your directness to work your will, there might be situations you could practice using it to give others a voice or getting consensus—or just dropping it entirely if it’s, e.g., a temperature preference and not a big deal. Picking your battles is one way to accommodate other opinions.
Also I think the world needs both sorts of people—do you? I’m a pleaser by nature and it would be awful if everyone were like me—where would we go eat? But also imagine how obnoxious it would be if everyone constantly asserted every minor preference—where would we go eat?
posted by kapers at 5:08 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
There are different flavors of this depending on whether this is professional or personal. But generally speaking, ask more open ended questions, invite discussion, and most importantly care about the answers. Make sure people are actually having their say--the point isn't to give them a chance to enter an opinion, as if this were some court procedure, it's to actually find out what they want.
What I don't know how to do is figure out when they're hinting, because there has to be plausible deniability for it to be a hint. Sometimes people who say “maybe” or “I'll think about it“ really do mean that. How do you know which is which?
The more you can approach discussions as finding out what movie someone really wants to see, whether there's anything you can do help make their life easier, etc., the less people will feel interrogated, the more comfortable people who know you will get talking things out, and the better you'll get at this kind of conversation.
One important point here is this means (sometimes) passing on a chance to express your own opinion in the way you want. If a hinter says they've heard good things about Ted Lasso, the way to find out if they want that is to say "Sounds good! Let's give it a watch!" Don't say "That's OK if you want, my first choice was Silo." Because you know how this conversational dynamic goes: They will agree with you and then you'll just never know (except it seems like you kind of know.) I note as a brusque person this is not something that comes naturally to me.
I obviously don't mean always suppress expressing what you want to do. But if you're aware of this difference in communication styles, you probably want to meter it.
I also can't figure out how to hint myself without coming off as an asshole, still too direct, or so vague that the hint isn't picked up.
Yeah, part of hinting is being willing to not have the hint picked up. That's the plausible deniability part! That it gives the other person the ability to politely not notice what you said.
I do think you are conceptualizing this a bit as a style problem but it's also a substance problem. There isn't some magic way to hint indirectly, then have people go along with what you want, and think you're a great easygoing pal who let them choose. You will actually find you are doing what the other person wants more often, and that you sometimes don't even get your ideas fully aired.
The compensation is you actually stop feeling like you are bulldozing people and making them miserable.
posted by mark k at 5:10 PM on August 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
What I don't know how to do is figure out when they're hinting, because there has to be plausible deniability for it to be a hint. Sometimes people who say “maybe” or “I'll think about it“ really do mean that. How do you know which is which?
The more you can approach discussions as finding out what movie someone really wants to see, whether there's anything you can do help make their life easier, etc., the less people will feel interrogated, the more comfortable people who know you will get talking things out, and the better you'll get at this kind of conversation.
One important point here is this means (sometimes) passing on a chance to express your own opinion in the way you want. If a hinter says they've heard good things about Ted Lasso, the way to find out if they want that is to say "Sounds good! Let's give it a watch!" Don't say "That's OK if you want, my first choice was Silo." Because you know how this conversational dynamic goes: They will agree with you and then you'll just never know (except it seems like you kind of know.) I note as a brusque person this is not something that comes naturally to me.
I obviously don't mean always suppress expressing what you want to do. But if you're aware of this difference in communication styles, you probably want to meter it.
I also can't figure out how to hint myself without coming off as an asshole, still too direct, or so vague that the hint isn't picked up.
Yeah, part of hinting is being willing to not have the hint picked up. That's the plausible deniability part! That it gives the other person the ability to politely not notice what you said.
I do think you are conceptualizing this a bit as a style problem but it's also a substance problem. There isn't some magic way to hint indirectly, then have people go along with what you want, and think you're a great easygoing pal who let them choose. You will actually find you are doing what the other person wants more often, and that you sometimes don't even get your ideas fully aired.
The compensation is you actually stop feeling like you are bulldozing people and making them miserable.
posted by mark k at 5:10 PM on August 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm someone you might call a people pleaser. In my case it's because I grew up in a household where if I said directly that I needed or preferred something, this would be disregarded and someone would make me feel guilty about it. I grew up into an adult who doesn't assert myself when I need something because I'm sure that other people won't care about it or will like me less.
I mention this because I have a friend who's very direct like you, and when I think about why I mostly do feel comfortable telling her what I need, it's because she always responds very positively. Sometimes she'll say "Thanks for letting me know!" and other times she'll just cheerfully agree to what I've asked. She's also attentive to my preferences in general, so she doesn't tend to ask me to do things she has a good reason to think I wouldn't want to do, and if she does she's pretty careful about it.
I think it's very kind of you to care about your more indirect friends. It might take more effort and attentiveness to accommodate this quality in them, and you have to accept that you might get what you want less often than if you just happily bulldozed these people, but I think it's valuable to spend time putting yourself in their shoes. Meeting my very direct friend, not liking her at first, and having to think about why that is and how we could get along made me a little more comfortable asserting my needs, and we're able to have a sweet and rewarding friendship now. I think there's value in the way I am too - I probably wouldn't ask if you wanted the window closed, but I might close it myself or offer you a blanket because I noticed you were shivering, and that's nice in a different way.
posted by birthday cake at 5:56 PM on August 13, 2023 [14 favorites]
I mention this because I have a friend who's very direct like you, and when I think about why I mostly do feel comfortable telling her what I need, it's because she always responds very positively. Sometimes she'll say "Thanks for letting me know!" and other times she'll just cheerfully agree to what I've asked. She's also attentive to my preferences in general, so she doesn't tend to ask me to do things she has a good reason to think I wouldn't want to do, and if she does she's pretty careful about it.
I think it's very kind of you to care about your more indirect friends. It might take more effort and attentiveness to accommodate this quality in them, and you have to accept that you might get what you want less often than if you just happily bulldozed these people, but I think it's valuable to spend time putting yourself in their shoes. Meeting my very direct friend, not liking her at first, and having to think about why that is and how we could get along made me a little more comfortable asserting my needs, and we're able to have a sweet and rewarding friendship now. I think there's value in the way I am too - I probably wouldn't ask if you wanted the window closed, but I might close it myself or offer you a blanket because I noticed you were shivering, and that's nice in a different way.
posted by birthday cake at 5:56 PM on August 13, 2023 [14 favorites]
I think being aware of power dynamics and nature of relationships is key to effective communication.
This includes gender, race, class, age, and others, and those with more privilege tend to need to adjust their communication style to make people with less privilege comfortable with expressing what they really think and not just letting the more privileged person lead the conversation.
If you are totally comfortable asserting yourself, it's likely that this is correlated to some kind of privilege, and self reflection on the nature of this and why you feel comfortable might help you understand why other people don't feel comfortable.
People you know less well will also tend to hold back until they have a read on you.
In a work context, greater seniority and management hierarchy affect communication. Those in management do best do spend more time listening to reports than dictating to them, and in listening will learn about what is needed.
It sounds a bit like you're framing your own style as preferable and learning from others experiences as you're doing here is important. If you do choose to change your approach, expect it to involve significant effort. If you're willing, asking those who know you well for honest feedback about your communication style could be educational.
It's likely that more "guess" people are reading what you communicate differently than you intend, so communicating more explicitly yourself may help. For example, explicitly giving an out if you ask for something, and explicitly asking what they need or want.
As far as practical actions, I would monitor what portion of a conversation you are talking, and make a practice of noticing the non verbal expressions of others. If you suspect they want to communicate something, create an opportunity by asking in a way that allows them to do so honestly.
Kudos to you for recognizing this as something to work on.
posted by lookoutbelow at 6:17 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
This includes gender, race, class, age, and others, and those with more privilege tend to need to adjust their communication style to make people with less privilege comfortable with expressing what they really think and not just letting the more privileged person lead the conversation.
If you are totally comfortable asserting yourself, it's likely that this is correlated to some kind of privilege, and self reflection on the nature of this and why you feel comfortable might help you understand why other people don't feel comfortable.
People you know less well will also tend to hold back until they have a read on you.
In a work context, greater seniority and management hierarchy affect communication. Those in management do best do spend more time listening to reports than dictating to them, and in listening will learn about what is needed.
It sounds a bit like you're framing your own style as preferable and learning from others experiences as you're doing here is important. If you do choose to change your approach, expect it to involve significant effort. If you're willing, asking those who know you well for honest feedback about your communication style could be educational.
It's likely that more "guess" people are reading what you communicate differently than you intend, so communicating more explicitly yourself may help. For example, explicitly giving an out if you ask for something, and explicitly asking what they need or want.
As far as practical actions, I would monitor what portion of a conversation you are talking, and make a practice of noticing the non verbal expressions of others. If you suspect they want to communicate something, create an opportunity by asking in a way that allows them to do so honestly.
Kudos to you for recognizing this as something to work on.
posted by lookoutbelow at 6:17 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I function more on the Guess side of the spectrum, but sometimes you do need to be direct to get a point across. Something I do when I am making a direct request that I know might sound like an order, and I want to make it clear that it really is the opening of a negotiation, is to follow “Would you mind opening the window?” with “No is a good answer.” Being absolutely explicit that I really am ready to hear either yes or no makes the communication feel much less bullying to me.
posted by LizardBreath at 6:45 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by LizardBreath at 6:45 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Spend some time thinking about context: who they are in relation to you, what they have and don’t have and what they and you might want out of an interaction.
If you have something to ask: don’t ask them, just mention that you could really use a hand with X. They can then volunteer, or not.
Read about the concept of face; Erving Goffman wrote a great book about it if you’re so inclined. You always want to preserve the face of both parties in an interaction. From that pov, being direct is kind of crass and inconsiderate.
I’ve met lots of people who pride themselves on being direct but lack tact.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:29 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
If you have something to ask: don’t ask them, just mention that you could really use a hand with X. They can then volunteer, or not.
Read about the concept of face; Erving Goffman wrote a great book about it if you’re so inclined. You always want to preserve the face of both parties in an interaction. From that pov, being direct is kind of crass and inconsiderate.
I’ve met lots of people who pride themselves on being direct but lack tact.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:29 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Speaking of context specifically, a name for something like ask/guess that gets used in cross-cultural communication is the idea of high- versus low-context communication styles
posted by itsatextfile at 8:37 PM on August 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by itsatextfile at 8:37 PM on August 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I am sitting in a shared office, uncomfortably warm despite the open window.
You say, "Sure is cold in here!"
If I disagree with you, I am arguing. I tense up because I bet you are trying to coerce me into agreeing to close the window. You are stating an opinion as a fact, a really effective way pushy people have of getting their own way. Any disagreement is quibbling, or being difficult on purpose, or just a sign that I am out of step with you and all right thinking people.
However it is important to me that the window stay open, as closing it may result in a heat induced migraine for me. So I say mildly, "I'm not finding it cold."
Usually this results in the other person sounding slightly annoyed and telling me I am wrong. They normally just want me to agree if they start with a statement. The response is likely to be "But don't you feel a draft?" or "Really? It seems awfully cold to me. I was hoping you wouldn't mind if I closed the window." It's an argument AND they're telling me how I feel.
I have two choices at this point, going head to head with them, which they won't like because I am challenging their power and maybe even thwarting them, or special pleading, that they will take pity on poor fragile me and graciously let me have the window open so I don't go home and spend the evening in a dark room, puking. Neither is fun. I will usually concede the argument because not agreeing puts me in a role as hostile, or weird and damaged.
But this one time you are not so aggressive as to make a fiat statement and you ask, "Would you mind closing the window?" But I would mind. I would mind very much. But you just took a one down position, so if I refuse or I argue, I am the one bullying you and making you uncomfortable. You wouldn't have asked about the window if you didn't want me to agree with you. You've cornered me. Again, I can expect hostility if I don't simply concede and close the window for you, or tell you to go ahead and close it yourself. Likely the hostility will be passive aggressive, and could take the form of sighing and telling other people how hard I am to work with. So chances are I smile thinly and close the window while thinking how much I don't like working with you.
This is really unfair to you, because if you ask, "Would you mind giving me the Wilkerson Report before you start the computer back-ups?" I will respond in exactly the same way. I don't care at all which of those I do first, so I'll give you a faint smile, and agree to do it, and you won't know that I might even be thinking that it is a pleasant thing to be making your day easier. Chances are you won't be able to tell the difference between the two briefly little smiles. When you're trying to win a conflict and get your own way, if you get me to agree you think we are both happy, because you are happy. If I don't tell you that you are coercing me into cooperating, it's because I don't trust you and I don't enjoy interacting with you. So you've got no way to learn that you are rapidly running out of social capital. You never know when you are spending it.
Neither of those two approaches are going to give you the result you want. In both cases I am likely to feel manipulated and feel that you were pushy and cornered me by being too direct. ( I am likely going to feel that you were pushy in the third instance when we are talking about the Wilkerson Report too, but I almost certainly won't mind at all, because being direct is often the fastest and most sensible way of getting things done so your being pushy did me no harm. )
"Would you mind...?" is often the way that bosses soften a direct order. Most of the time when someone asks "Would you mind...?" they are expecting you to fall in with their wishes. I've encountered bosses who soften their orders "You can do this any time..." when in fact, they are actually expecting the subordinate to drop everything and prioritize the task. You can't trust a softly worded polite request. In a work context, "Would you mind..." is what people say when they are pushing boundaries. "Would you mind working late on Wednesday?" Of course I mind, but I am not going to say so, or come performance review I am going to hear about how uncooperative I am.
"Do we need the window open?" Is a good way to open the discussion. You begin by looking for information. You're not assuming that I feel the same things you do, nor are you imposing on me by making a request. You are not projecting agreement on me or soliciting cooperation.
"Yes, I am freezing in here, but the stupid server keeps overheating..."
"I need the fresh air so I don't fall asleep at my desk..."
"Someone came in from smoking a cigarette and I'm trying to keep the smell from lingering."
"We don't need the window open, but I'm enjoying listening to the birds."
"I don't think so. Is it bothering you?"
"Uh, yeah, I prefer it. I overheat really easily."
"Please close the window! I'm so cold, but I don't have time to find the window handle!"
Neutral questions are great. They make me feel like I am in a neutral situation rather than in a subtly hostile one. But you can even do better than a neutral question!
Suppose you start with, "Are you finding it cold in here?" This means that I get to answer with my preference before you state yours, so if I reply enthusiastically, "It's a lovely cool breeze!" We can circumvent a conflict because you haven't yet given your opinion of the temperature. All you have to do is say, "I'm just a bit cold. I'll go grab my sweater then!" if my answer is so enthusiastic you know that I really, really want that window open. You will give me a direct full smile to make sure I see you are glad to get the sweater and accommodate me. As you head out of the room to get the sweater I will be thinking how much I like working with you. Oh, and I owe you one for letting me keep the window open so very gracefully, no bullying or manipulation.
My answer to any question seeking my viewpoint can be calibrated according to how important it is to me that the window stay open. I can put enthusiasm into my voice without expecting my higher show of enthusiasm to annoy you. I can respond with a vocal shrug, or politely expressed resentment. "It's so noisy with the window open..." It will be much easier for you to calibrate the important degree of difference between who cares more, if you begin by asking for my viewpoint. I'm safe to tell you that the open window is critical to my health, OR that it's making me miserable and I hate the fact that it has to stay open so the stupid server doesn't crash again. You haven't already made up your mind what the best solution is, and you aren't just trying to get me to cooperate over and above my wishes and any factors you don't know about.
If having the window open is not important to me, I'll reply something like, "Huh... yeah, I guess it is a little cool." I'm agreeable* like that. I'm so agreeable that I will pick up on the fact that you asked if I was finding it COLD rather than hot, and will be aware that you are probably cold, and probably want to close the window and are asking me if you can close it, in a non-confrontational way. But I'll answer neutrally with all kinds of modifiers: "huh", "I guess" "....a little cool" so as to give you a chance to show me how strongly YOU feel about the temperature. After all I might be wrong. You might be bending over backwards to be accommodating in case I am the one already feeling cold, and really you are angling to turn on the fan and the air conditioning.
At this point - if you are being agreeable the way I am - you get to choose from a selection of negotiations like, "Shall I leave it open just a little?" or "Actually, I'm freezing!" or "I must be really cold-blooded," or "I hate to ask, but I think I am coming down with a serious case of the chills. Would you mind if we closed it until I warm up a little bit?" or "Do you have a sweater I could borrow?"
The thing to listen for is my doubtful or lukewarm answers. That's when you stop pushing and back down. So if I say, "I suppose we could close the window if you are uncomfortable." That's NOT an agreement. It's an acknowledgement that I hear that you want the window closed. If you take that as agreement, and say, "Great!" and close it, I am going to be thinking, "You Fucker..." You had a cue to acknowledge my desire to have the window left open and instead you proved you weren't listening and didn't care what I wanted.
You can try "Would it be okay if we close it then?"
And then I can counter with "I'd really rather it stays open..." or "We can close it if you really need it..."
"I'd really rather it stays open..." means I am sticking to my guns and I do not want to back down. Please don't keep pushing until I have to tell you about my migraines. You can keep insisting and presenting good reasons to close the window, but the longer we negotiate the softer your arguments have to be, and the gentler and more accommodating you have to be if you don't want to come across as coercive. Start thinking of concessions you can make, to make it worth my while, instead of persisting in pushing and making me feel that I am annoying you by not just letting you have your way.
"We can close it if you really need it..." means that I need some more convincing but am leaning towards letting you have your way.
At this point you are expected to make me feel that if I give in, you are aware that I am taking pity on you and you appreciate it very much, in direct proportion to how lengthy the negotiations have been, and you still must double check that I am not giving in because you are pestering me.
"Are you sure you'll be okay? I wouldn't ask, but I'm just too cold to work on the the Wilkerson Financials...?"
And then if you get a nod, or verbal agreement or I go shut the window, you give me eye contact, put warmth in your voice "Thank you! I'll be so much more comfortable! I should have the financials done before lunchtime, and you can open it up again then."
Please note, that not looking at me during the negotiations, or looking stern or annoyed, or putting on a grin are all bullying. You need to make eye contact, because not looking at me is a way to show you actually don't care and are only pretending to be negotiating. You're supposed to be checking me for body language and expression to make sure that you are not imposing. You need to look and sound like you want it to be okay with me, AND if you win, you are expected to take the one down position of the person being granted a favor. Next round is owed to me, for conceding this one. If it's not granted to me automatically, then you are the annoying needy, bullying person.
In this type of negotiation, the more often you win, the lower your social value becomes. The more often you win, the less anyone cares about you, except to make you go away. The object in this kind of a relationship is to be the one who gives in slightly more often, and the one who is best at rapidly calibrating whose needs are strongest in any given negotiation.
Nobody wants the negotiations to go on at any length, so acute awareness of nuances is the skill that everyone values. It all sounds really lengthy and complicated but it's not. It's just lengthy and complicated here because I am explaining it in detail. When you are actually good at this type of communication a practiced pair of partners can glance at each other and tell from how tense their faces are who cares about an issue more, and not actually say anything but, "Are you finding it cold in here?" The one asking will convey how much they want the window closed in their tone, posture and expression, and the one receiving the request will compare the information they receive with their own feelings, and convey the degree of debt owed to whichever one of them gets to have the way, with nothing more than their posture and expression and the speed with which they either get up and close the window or wordlessly look away and go back to work.
The thing to keep in mind is that the feelings and the status of the person you are talking to matter a lot. You are looking for active signs that they are happy, and they are comfortable. If they are not looking at you, then you are screwing up somehow, because the they are not comfortable with eye contact and not comfortable with the discussion. (Don't move into their line of sight to force eye contact!) Remember the old saying, "A man convinced against his will, is of his own opinion still."
There's a good chance that you are trying to speed through negotiations to get a resolution, and they trust you so little that they are not comfortable enough to talk freely, which means that the negotiations are taking much longer than they need to.
Suppose you are trying to decide who will work on what for a group project, you have a proposal and you sum it all up, and one of your group says, "I hate it."
Well, they trusted you enough to tell you. The worst thing you can ask them is, "Why?" because that question shows you already disagree with them and you are putting them on the spot. If you have to ask why, you still unaware of why they hate it and the conversation will likely devolve into "Devlin can't do it." "Yes, he can." "No, he can't." You summed up your proposal too early. You are still in the information gathering stage.
So when someone says, "I hate it." or "I dunno..." or "If you say so..." It's time to ask a positive question that gives you more information. "What do you think would work better?"
"DON'T let Devlin work with the public. You need someone at the desk who can actually answer questions..."
You were nowhere near in agreement yet when you came up with your proposal. There's a whole lot of doubts still floating around.
Instead of "So, we're all agreed?" try "Anyone have any worries? Anyone have any suggestions?" Try to get THEM to sum up the proposals if you want a consensus, instead of trying to get them to agree.
*you can substitute annoyingly indirect for the word agreeable, if you prefer.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:50 PM on August 13, 2023 [20 favorites]
You say, "Sure is cold in here!"
If I disagree with you, I am arguing. I tense up because I bet you are trying to coerce me into agreeing to close the window. You are stating an opinion as a fact, a really effective way pushy people have of getting their own way. Any disagreement is quibbling, or being difficult on purpose, or just a sign that I am out of step with you and all right thinking people.
However it is important to me that the window stay open, as closing it may result in a heat induced migraine for me. So I say mildly, "I'm not finding it cold."
Usually this results in the other person sounding slightly annoyed and telling me I am wrong. They normally just want me to agree if they start with a statement. The response is likely to be "But don't you feel a draft?" or "Really? It seems awfully cold to me. I was hoping you wouldn't mind if I closed the window." It's an argument AND they're telling me how I feel.
I have two choices at this point, going head to head with them, which they won't like because I am challenging their power and maybe even thwarting them, or special pleading, that they will take pity on poor fragile me and graciously let me have the window open so I don't go home and spend the evening in a dark room, puking. Neither is fun. I will usually concede the argument because not agreeing puts me in a role as hostile, or weird and damaged.
But this one time you are not so aggressive as to make a fiat statement and you ask, "Would you mind closing the window?" But I would mind. I would mind very much. But you just took a one down position, so if I refuse or I argue, I am the one bullying you and making you uncomfortable. You wouldn't have asked about the window if you didn't want me to agree with you. You've cornered me. Again, I can expect hostility if I don't simply concede and close the window for you, or tell you to go ahead and close it yourself. Likely the hostility will be passive aggressive, and could take the form of sighing and telling other people how hard I am to work with. So chances are I smile thinly and close the window while thinking how much I don't like working with you.
This is really unfair to you, because if you ask, "Would you mind giving me the Wilkerson Report before you start the computer back-ups?" I will respond in exactly the same way. I don't care at all which of those I do first, so I'll give you a faint smile, and agree to do it, and you won't know that I might even be thinking that it is a pleasant thing to be making your day easier. Chances are you won't be able to tell the difference between the two briefly little smiles. When you're trying to win a conflict and get your own way, if you get me to agree you think we are both happy, because you are happy. If I don't tell you that you are coercing me into cooperating, it's because I don't trust you and I don't enjoy interacting with you. So you've got no way to learn that you are rapidly running out of social capital. You never know when you are spending it.
Neither of those two approaches are going to give you the result you want. In both cases I am likely to feel manipulated and feel that you were pushy and cornered me by being too direct. ( I am likely going to feel that you were pushy in the third instance when we are talking about the Wilkerson Report too, but I almost certainly won't mind at all, because being direct is often the fastest and most sensible way of getting things done so your being pushy did me no harm. )
"Would you mind...?" is often the way that bosses soften a direct order. Most of the time when someone asks "Would you mind...?" they are expecting you to fall in with their wishes. I've encountered bosses who soften their orders "You can do this any time..." when in fact, they are actually expecting the subordinate to drop everything and prioritize the task. You can't trust a softly worded polite request. In a work context, "Would you mind..." is what people say when they are pushing boundaries. "Would you mind working late on Wednesday?" Of course I mind, but I am not going to say so, or come performance review I am going to hear about how uncooperative I am.
"Do we need the window open?" Is a good way to open the discussion. You begin by looking for information. You're not assuming that I feel the same things you do, nor are you imposing on me by making a request. You are not projecting agreement on me or soliciting cooperation.
"Yes, I am freezing in here, but the stupid server keeps overheating..."
"I need the fresh air so I don't fall asleep at my desk..."
"Someone came in from smoking a cigarette and I'm trying to keep the smell from lingering."
"We don't need the window open, but I'm enjoying listening to the birds."
"I don't think so. Is it bothering you?"
"Uh, yeah, I prefer it. I overheat really easily."
"Please close the window! I'm so cold, but I don't have time to find the window handle!"
Neutral questions are great. They make me feel like I am in a neutral situation rather than in a subtly hostile one. But you can even do better than a neutral question!
Suppose you start with, "Are you finding it cold in here?" This means that I get to answer with my preference before you state yours, so if I reply enthusiastically, "It's a lovely cool breeze!" We can circumvent a conflict because you haven't yet given your opinion of the temperature. All you have to do is say, "I'm just a bit cold. I'll go grab my sweater then!" if my answer is so enthusiastic you know that I really, really want that window open. You will give me a direct full smile to make sure I see you are glad to get the sweater and accommodate me. As you head out of the room to get the sweater I will be thinking how much I like working with you. Oh, and I owe you one for letting me keep the window open so very gracefully, no bullying or manipulation.
My answer to any question seeking my viewpoint can be calibrated according to how important it is to me that the window stay open. I can put enthusiasm into my voice without expecting my higher show of enthusiasm to annoy you. I can respond with a vocal shrug, or politely expressed resentment. "It's so noisy with the window open..." It will be much easier for you to calibrate the important degree of difference between who cares more, if you begin by asking for my viewpoint. I'm safe to tell you that the open window is critical to my health, OR that it's making me miserable and I hate the fact that it has to stay open so the stupid server doesn't crash again. You haven't already made up your mind what the best solution is, and you aren't just trying to get me to cooperate over and above my wishes and any factors you don't know about.
If having the window open is not important to me, I'll reply something like, "Huh... yeah, I guess it is a little cool." I'm agreeable* like that. I'm so agreeable that I will pick up on the fact that you asked if I was finding it COLD rather than hot, and will be aware that you are probably cold, and probably want to close the window and are asking me if you can close it, in a non-confrontational way. But I'll answer neutrally with all kinds of modifiers: "huh", "I guess" "....a little cool" so as to give you a chance to show me how strongly YOU feel about the temperature. After all I might be wrong. You might be bending over backwards to be accommodating in case I am the one already feeling cold, and really you are angling to turn on the fan and the air conditioning.
At this point - if you are being agreeable the way I am - you get to choose from a selection of negotiations like, "Shall I leave it open just a little?" or "Actually, I'm freezing!" or "I must be really cold-blooded," or "I hate to ask, but I think I am coming down with a serious case of the chills. Would you mind if we closed it until I warm up a little bit?" or "Do you have a sweater I could borrow?"
The thing to listen for is my doubtful or lukewarm answers. That's when you stop pushing and back down. So if I say, "I suppose we could close the window if you are uncomfortable." That's NOT an agreement. It's an acknowledgement that I hear that you want the window closed. If you take that as agreement, and say, "Great!" and close it, I am going to be thinking, "You Fucker..." You had a cue to acknowledge my desire to have the window left open and instead you proved you weren't listening and didn't care what I wanted.
You can try "Would it be okay if we close it then?"
And then I can counter with "I'd really rather it stays open..." or "We can close it if you really need it..."
"I'd really rather it stays open..." means I am sticking to my guns and I do not want to back down. Please don't keep pushing until I have to tell you about my migraines. You can keep insisting and presenting good reasons to close the window, but the longer we negotiate the softer your arguments have to be, and the gentler and more accommodating you have to be if you don't want to come across as coercive. Start thinking of concessions you can make, to make it worth my while, instead of persisting in pushing and making me feel that I am annoying you by not just letting you have your way.
"We can close it if you really need it..." means that I need some more convincing but am leaning towards letting you have your way.
At this point you are expected to make me feel that if I give in, you are aware that I am taking pity on you and you appreciate it very much, in direct proportion to how lengthy the negotiations have been, and you still must double check that I am not giving in because you are pestering me.
"Are you sure you'll be okay? I wouldn't ask, but I'm just too cold to work on the the Wilkerson Financials...?"
And then if you get a nod, or verbal agreement or I go shut the window, you give me eye contact, put warmth in your voice "Thank you! I'll be so much more comfortable! I should have the financials done before lunchtime, and you can open it up again then."
Please note, that not looking at me during the negotiations, or looking stern or annoyed, or putting on a grin are all bullying. You need to make eye contact, because not looking at me is a way to show you actually don't care and are only pretending to be negotiating. You're supposed to be checking me for body language and expression to make sure that you are not imposing. You need to look and sound like you want it to be okay with me, AND if you win, you are expected to take the one down position of the person being granted a favor. Next round is owed to me, for conceding this one. If it's not granted to me automatically, then you are the annoying needy, bullying person.
In this type of negotiation, the more often you win, the lower your social value becomes. The more often you win, the less anyone cares about you, except to make you go away. The object in this kind of a relationship is to be the one who gives in slightly more often, and the one who is best at rapidly calibrating whose needs are strongest in any given negotiation.
Nobody wants the negotiations to go on at any length, so acute awareness of nuances is the skill that everyone values. It all sounds really lengthy and complicated but it's not. It's just lengthy and complicated here because I am explaining it in detail. When you are actually good at this type of communication a practiced pair of partners can glance at each other and tell from how tense their faces are who cares about an issue more, and not actually say anything but, "Are you finding it cold in here?" The one asking will convey how much they want the window closed in their tone, posture and expression, and the one receiving the request will compare the information they receive with their own feelings, and convey the degree of debt owed to whichever one of them gets to have the way, with nothing more than their posture and expression and the speed with which they either get up and close the window or wordlessly look away and go back to work.
The thing to keep in mind is that the feelings and the status of the person you are talking to matter a lot. You are looking for active signs that they are happy, and they are comfortable. If they are not looking at you, then you are screwing up somehow, because the they are not comfortable with eye contact and not comfortable with the discussion. (Don't move into their line of sight to force eye contact!) Remember the old saying, "A man convinced against his will, is of his own opinion still."
There's a good chance that you are trying to speed through negotiations to get a resolution, and they trust you so little that they are not comfortable enough to talk freely, which means that the negotiations are taking much longer than they need to.
Suppose you are trying to decide who will work on what for a group project, you have a proposal and you sum it all up, and one of your group says, "I hate it."
Well, they trusted you enough to tell you. The worst thing you can ask them is, "Why?" because that question shows you already disagree with them and you are putting them on the spot. If you have to ask why, you still unaware of why they hate it and the conversation will likely devolve into "Devlin can't do it." "Yes, he can." "No, he can't." You summed up your proposal too early. You are still in the information gathering stage.
So when someone says, "I hate it." or "I dunno..." or "If you say so..." It's time to ask a positive question that gives you more information. "What do you think would work better?"
"DON'T let Devlin work with the public. You need someone at the desk who can actually answer questions..."
You were nowhere near in agreement yet when you came up with your proposal. There's a whole lot of doubts still floating around.
Instead of "So, we're all agreed?" try "Anyone have any worries? Anyone have any suggestions?" Try to get THEM to sum up the proposals if you want a consensus, instead of trying to get them to agree.
*you can substitute annoyingly indirect for the word agreeable, if you prefer.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:50 PM on August 13, 2023 [20 favorites]
I broadly agree with Jane the Brown. There are lots of examples of "soft" language that I find passive-aggressive and manipulative, and therefore absolutely infuriating. Softer and more indirect is not better. There is no magic phrasing that will make everyone happy if a conflict in needs or desires exists.
If you know that such a conflict exists, or that it's a strong possibility, I think that it is polite to acknowledge that, and express what you want and how badly you want it in a relatively straightforward way while leaving room for the other parties to express their own preferences.
I don't always know how to do this, and sometimes there isn't a single correct way that is guaranteed not to backfire -- every time questions like this come up here we all discover that we have wildly different interpretations of the same phrases and scripts. But I would really like to push back against the assumption that what you need to do is be less "direct". You can "directly" say a lot of different things.
posted by confluency at 1:12 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
If you know that such a conflict exists, or that it's a strong possibility, I think that it is polite to acknowledge that, and express what you want and how badly you want it in a relatively straightforward way while leaving room for the other parties to express their own preferences.
I don't always know how to do this, and sometimes there isn't a single correct way that is guaranteed not to backfire -- every time questions like this come up here we all discover that we have wildly different interpretations of the same phrases and scripts. But I would really like to push back against the assumption that what you need to do is be less "direct". You can "directly" say a lot of different things.
posted by confluency at 1:12 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm a direct person and I one thing I have learned in the workplace is to soften my delivery when giving feedback. I'm a scientist and we edit each other's writing all the time- if I send something I have written to coworkers or my boss for feedback and it comes back with a bunch of tracked changes edits and comments I go ahead and update the document and don't think much of it. I learned via a junior colleague that my more junior coworkers often feel really bad about receiving feedback like this, like they did a bad job and I was unhappy with their work. I felt terrible when I learned this! So now I'll include something like 'thanks so much for sending this to me for input. It looks really good! I made a few minor comments and suggested edits for your consideration. It might seem like a lot but I have a tendency to be a detailed editor.'
My general advice is to try to put yourself in another's shoes- how would someone with a different personality type take your request? I am still direct but try to include pleasantries and politeness as to not be such a bulldozer. Also, try to be a good listener and give people time and space to provide their opinion if they're not naturally upfront about it.
posted by emd3737 at 1:30 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
My general advice is to try to put yourself in another's shoes- how would someone with a different personality type take your request? I am still direct but try to include pleasantries and politeness as to not be such a bulldozer. Also, try to be a good listener and give people time and space to provide their opinion if they're not naturally upfront about it.
posted by emd3737 at 1:30 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Imagine that everybody had a gauge on their forehead that let you see how strongly they felt about any given statement. If I said "I want cheese" and my gauge said "1%," you'd know I kind of vaguely felt like cheese but didn't particularly care. And if it said "100%" you'd know I meant "GIVE ME GOUDA OR I WILL KILL YOU."
Of course, human beings don't have those gauges. So instead, Guess people try to convey the intensity of their desires by word choice, body language, and tone of voice. If I say "I once had a really nice cheddar" in a wistful tone of voice, I'm trying to convey that my gauge is showing 1%. If I say, "Give me that cheese" in a forceful tone, I'm showing 100%.
An extreme Ask person will just express things directly and assume that their gauge level will be revealed in the ensuing conversation. But to an extreme Guess person, your emphatic tone and your direct word choice will have conveyed that your gauge is at 100% before the conversation even begins.
So with that in mind, some tips for conveying your own levels and recognizing other people's:
• Start conversations by explicitly labelling your own conversational style and asking about the other person's. As you may have noticed from the answers in this thread, some people think "people pleaser" is derogatory. Fortunately, phrasing the question in a self-deprecating way can help avoid offense.. A possible script might be, "Just so you know, I've got zero subtlety and I'm not good at picking up on subtext. So I'd really appreciate it if you would just be direct with me. On the plus side, you can trust that I'm just saying exactly what I mean. Are you a bulldozer like me, or are you actually good at subtext?"
• If the other person isn't a bulldozer, you might then invite them to be as direct with you as they can be. A script that might help is, "If you express something to me and it seems like I ignore it, I'm not being a jerk! I probably just didn't pick up on it. Pretend you've had a drink or two and just come out and say stuff. I won't be offended." (But note that, just as you can't be less direct than you are, some people simply can't be more direct than they are.)
• For friends who are willing to try it, you might try the Electoral College method to get a more accurate sense of each other's preference levels.
• You can also just start explicitly labeling your own needs more explicitly, followed by an invitation for the other person to express their opinion. Instead of, "I want some cheese," try "40% of me wants cheese but 60% of me thinks it's too soon to eat. What do you think?"
• If percentages don't sound natural, you can provide factual context that helps establish the intensity of the need you're conveying. "I'm at that stage where I'm just starting to feel hungry and I could eat any time in the next few hours." (But stick to the information that's genuinely required to understand your intensity. You don't need a long monologue on what you had at your last meal.)
• Ideally, you'd pay attention to people's tone of voice and facial expressions, and you'd gradually develop the skill of using those as a gauge. But reading body language is a skill that is easier for some people to pick up than others. Looking at your other questions, I see you've mentioned noise sensitivity, discomfort with the feeling of clothing, and anxiety. Those (combined with the communication style you're describing) make me wonder if you might be non-neurotypical in some way.
You obviously don't have to share anything with me (or anybody else) that you aren't comfortable sharing! But if you do have a formal diagnosis, and you're willing to share it with your friends, you might find it helpful in certain situations-- it will let people know your brain just doesn't get along with certain social norms.
On the other hand, neurotypical people sometimes believe unfair stereotypes about neurodiversity and there might be situations where it would be better not to share this info. I don't really feel qualified to advise you on when it's good to share and when it's not. That's probably a good thing to ask people with more lived experience of your specific brain type.
(And if you've never investigated whether you are neurodiverse, it might be something that would be helpful for you to investigate.)
posted by yankeefog at 2:36 AM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Of course, human beings don't have those gauges. So instead, Guess people try to convey the intensity of their desires by word choice, body language, and tone of voice. If I say "I once had a really nice cheddar" in a wistful tone of voice, I'm trying to convey that my gauge is showing 1%. If I say, "Give me that cheese" in a forceful tone, I'm showing 100%.
An extreme Ask person will just express things directly and assume that their gauge level will be revealed in the ensuing conversation. But to an extreme Guess person, your emphatic tone and your direct word choice will have conveyed that your gauge is at 100% before the conversation even begins.
So with that in mind, some tips for conveying your own levels and recognizing other people's:
• Start conversations by explicitly labelling your own conversational style and asking about the other person's. As you may have noticed from the answers in this thread, some people think "people pleaser" is derogatory. Fortunately, phrasing the question in a self-deprecating way can help avoid offense.. A possible script might be, "Just so you know, I've got zero subtlety and I'm not good at picking up on subtext. So I'd really appreciate it if you would just be direct with me. On the plus side, you can trust that I'm just saying exactly what I mean. Are you a bulldozer like me, or are you actually good at subtext?"
• If the other person isn't a bulldozer, you might then invite them to be as direct with you as they can be. A script that might help is, "If you express something to me and it seems like I ignore it, I'm not being a jerk! I probably just didn't pick up on it. Pretend you've had a drink or two and just come out and say stuff. I won't be offended." (But note that, just as you can't be less direct than you are, some people simply can't be more direct than they are.)
• For friends who are willing to try it, you might try the Electoral College method to get a more accurate sense of each other's preference levels.
• You can also just start explicitly labeling your own needs more explicitly, followed by an invitation for the other person to express their opinion. Instead of, "I want some cheese," try "40% of me wants cheese but 60% of me thinks it's too soon to eat. What do you think?"
• If percentages don't sound natural, you can provide factual context that helps establish the intensity of the need you're conveying. "I'm at that stage where I'm just starting to feel hungry and I could eat any time in the next few hours." (But stick to the information that's genuinely required to understand your intensity. You don't need a long monologue on what you had at your last meal.)
• Ideally, you'd pay attention to people's tone of voice and facial expressions, and you'd gradually develop the skill of using those as a gauge. But reading body language is a skill that is easier for some people to pick up than others. Looking at your other questions, I see you've mentioned noise sensitivity, discomfort with the feeling of clothing, and anxiety. Those (combined with the communication style you're describing) make me wonder if you might be non-neurotypical in some way.
You obviously don't have to share anything with me (or anybody else) that you aren't comfortable sharing! But if you do have a formal diagnosis, and you're willing to share it with your friends, you might find it helpful in certain situations-- it will let people know your brain just doesn't get along with certain social norms.
On the other hand, neurotypical people sometimes believe unfair stereotypes about neurodiversity and there might be situations where it would be better not to share this info. I don't really feel qualified to advise you on when it's good to share and when it's not. That's probably a good thing to ask people with more lived experience of your specific brain type.
(And if you've never investigated whether you are neurodiverse, it might be something that would be helpful for you to investigate.)
posted by yankeefog at 2:36 AM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Use your direct, explicit statements to give people an out, to ask about their situation, etc. Be direct and clear about how you don't actually need to get your way, rather than expecting them to mindread (heh) that you'd be totally okay with them pushing back, truly.
posted by trig at 6:01 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by trig at 6:01 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yeah, Jane the Brown's example is fascinating because it doesn't begin with an actual direct statement, it begins with an indirect statement that kicks off the whole chain of indirect negotiation. The actual direct way to approach that conflict would be to say "I'm kinda chilly with the window open, how comfortable are you? I can grab my sweater or we could close the window." That a) establishes your position b) acknowledges that you do not know what their position is (why is the window open? you don't know! it might be their preference!) and c) proposes a couple of solutions that would solve *your* problem without assuming that they share it.
Sometimes people are conflict-averse enough to not want to say "actually I like it cooler, do you mind getting your sweater?" and resort instead to extra-soft language or "oh, whatever you want" when they actually do care very much, and that is a sign that you have not done the work to make it clear that you actually care about what they think and are happy to accomodate them. Strengthening a relationship to that point does take work, and I think Jane the Brown laid out a really good set of patterns for ways that could work, and it absolutely does take a lot of time and thought and being as gracious as possible when it's clear that getting your way is going to make the other person unhappy. This doesn't mean you never get your way, it means you actually notice and care and show that you notice and care when you end up getting your preference over the other person's.
And some people are *so* conflict-averse that you might find that you can't ever interact with them without feeling like an abusive piece of shit who is steamrolling them. That is, in my opinion, a fatal difference of communication style and an excellent sign that you should be interacting as little and as formally as possible. Until you've gotten pretty good at handling nonverbal signals and figuring out how that person does express an opinion, I find it's best to try to arrange things so that you never ask a question to which the answer might be "no". Get more information, think of alternatives, get really good at actually knowing what *you* really want and how much you want it. This will make you better at communicating with everyone, not just people who prefer indirect communication.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:21 AM on August 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
Sometimes people are conflict-averse enough to not want to say "actually I like it cooler, do you mind getting your sweater?" and resort instead to extra-soft language or "oh, whatever you want" when they actually do care very much, and that is a sign that you have not done the work to make it clear that you actually care about what they think and are happy to accomodate them. Strengthening a relationship to that point does take work, and I think Jane the Brown laid out a really good set of patterns for ways that could work, and it absolutely does take a lot of time and thought and being as gracious as possible when it's clear that getting your way is going to make the other person unhappy. This doesn't mean you never get your way, it means you actually notice and care and show that you notice and care when you end up getting your preference over the other person's.
And some people are *so* conflict-averse that you might find that you can't ever interact with them without feeling like an abusive piece of shit who is steamrolling them. That is, in my opinion, a fatal difference of communication style and an excellent sign that you should be interacting as little and as formally as possible. Until you've gotten pretty good at handling nonverbal signals and figuring out how that person does express an opinion, I find it's best to try to arrange things so that you never ask a question to which the answer might be "no". Get more information, think of alternatives, get really good at actually knowing what *you* really want and how much you want it. This will make you better at communicating with everyone, not just people who prefer indirect communication.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:21 AM on August 14, 2023 [12 favorites]
Lots of people have said great things, but I wanted to add: "maybe" and "I'll think about it" are answers. You might not think they are - seems like you want a decisive answer. But they are decisive.
If you need to do something different based on their answer, then that's different. If you're asking - do you want lunch? and the answer is maybe - then say ok I'll come back at x time for your Y/N. If it's "i'll think about it" you can say great, we've got til Friday to finalise and I'll go ahead and do {what we agreed} at that point unless I hear differently. Or, fab I'll check again tomorrow for anything more.
posted by london explorer girl at 7:56 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you need to do something different based on their answer, then that's different. If you're asking - do you want lunch? and the answer is maybe - then say ok I'll come back at x time for your Y/N. If it's "i'll think about it" you can say great, we've got til Friday to finalise and I'll go ahead and do {what we agreed} at that point unless I hear differently. Or, fab I'll check again tomorrow for anything more.
posted by london explorer girl at 7:56 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
And just to reiterate, because I think it's important - softening language like "would you mind?" does not make a command a question. It's an indication that unless the other person actively objects, you are going to get what you want. It doesn't show curiosity or willingness to negotiate, it's not open to other alternatives. If you're talking to someone who is perfectly happy to start a conflict, you might get a conflict, but it's pretty much the same conflict you'd get if you said "Close the window," except the form of the conflict might not be of the "fuck you, asshole" variety.
posted by restless_nomad at 8:11 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 8:11 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Sometimes people who say “maybe” or “I'll think about it“ really do mean that. How do you know which is which?
When people say "maybe", it's generally on them to follow up.
posted by M. at 9:19 AM on August 14, 2023
When people say "maybe", it's generally on them to follow up.
posted by M. at 9:19 AM on August 14, 2023
I'm a direct communicator and a people-pleaser, so in the window case, whatever it's currently set at is fine, whether I personally am hot or cold. My wife is an indirect communicator and not a people pleaser, so she expects if she is cold that the room will be polled and the window will be closed. That IMO leads to lots of wasted conversations, usually when I'm thinking about something else, that I have to stop what I'm working on/thinking about and have an unnecessary conversation about the current state of the window when I'd honestly prefer she just go close it so she gets her optimal state of comfort..
So just remember there is no optimal communication style and there are many different points on which conversation is measured.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
So just remember there is no optimal communication style and there are many different points on which conversation is measured.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
My facial expressions and tone don’t always come out the way I intend them to. Given that this is the case, is there any way to still effectively communicate with people who think the way you describe, or am I just screwed in that case? That’s a big reason I rely so much on direct, explicit statements.
The skill you are looking for is probably emotional labour. It's a change in mindset that occurs before any interaction.
Surprisingly, it's not actually hard to do, although it can be hard to remember to do it. Let's say you're in the office and you're cold. Change the focus from you to the other people in the room, and make your focus on making sure the temperature is comfortable for them. Their comfort comes first. If you're only thinking about you, you'll likely pick the wrong words and miss what they are saying because it doesn't agree with your needs. But if you start by asking, "Am I the only one feeling cold?" or "Are you guys warm enough?" or "Is the draft from the window bothering you?" you are pretty much guaranteed not to trigger resentful cooperation.
If may be difficult for you to take this role of the helper, because you will have had contempt and indifference for other people modeled for you as the behaviour of high status people. The head of the football team at school used to shoulder through people in the hall, so on some level you likely think that shouldering through people is the way to be successful. But he didn't shoulder through them until he had the status that made them automatically defer, and if you shoulder your way through, you'll be taken as that stupid lout who doesn't defer to your betters and is too clumsy to be let out in public.
And being helpful and supportive is not inherently a one down, low status position. Leaders take care of their team. A good father comforts a crying child, and provides the groceries with an eye to keeping their kid healthy. That doesn't mean the kid is calling the shots and the father is deferring to the kid.
So to get the right facial expressions and tone, look at people not as coworkers that have to be poked in the right way to make them cooperative, but as your responsibility. "How can I make Maureen's day easier?" is a silent question to ask yourself. "Is there anything I can contribute?" or "If I do this, will it make things harder for them?"
At this point you are taking personal power. You're looking at the group as a team and positioning yourself to be more functional and to contribute. This is like learning to analyze football plays and figuring out where to position yourself on the field as the other players move around. You're not just running after the ball and getting in the way of the other players. If Maureen is working to a deadline, and you start intercepting the phone, she's not going to need you to tell her you are doing it, the same way that the forward is going to notice you getting in the position behind them so that you can kick the ball into their direction if it goes wide.
You can come up with a stock list of questions to ask yourself. "What does this person need?" is a really good one. They DON'T need you to convince them to do you favours. They need to do their job and feel good about themself. Making them feel bad is like tripping up your football forward.
You might find reading some game theory helps you develop the right mindset. Ideas like the game of tit for tat, and the non zero-sum game will show you the logic behind why people pleasing is a critical skill and doing emotional labour pays off. If you win all the time and they lose all the time you are isolating yourself. Whereas if they see that you are committed to making them win as often as possible, they will have incentive to find a role for you and train you in that role to be a more effective player, instead of working to sideline you and trying to exclude you from the game.
When you get into a competition with someone else that puts them into a position where they lose, you are missing almost all of the nuances in the situation. If you are cold and rush to close the window, you don't know if you will cause the server to overheat and crash, or cause Maureen to become too hot to work, and make her resentful. You'll completely fail to find long term solutions.
But you HAVE been asking the right questions, and have observed there is a problem in your interactions. Right now you're basically studying football plays, and can start working out where you can position yourself for maximum effect.
You won't have to worry about your facial expressions and tone when you position yourself as the player who is there to make your co-worker's and your family's and your friends' and your team's lives easier. You'll gain their trust when you do it consistently. You might have resting bitch face, but when the team sees that you not only bring a sweater into the office so they can have the window open or closed depending on what they need, but you bring an extra sweater so that Alfie doesn't freeze either, while Maureen still gets to have the window open, and the server doesn't crash from overheating, they won't care what your features are saying. Your actions will speak louder than your facial muscles.
A lot of this stuff is also what they teach in basic training: "Don't fuck your buddy." You want to lay the groundwork so that when you are struggling, Maureen and Alfie close ranks to protect you. And that means working to figure out when they are struggling, so that you can make it easy for them. What's the easiest way to figure out when they are struggling? Ask them what they need and want, and then assist them to get it. Every time you find a way to help them in a different way you will learn more about how to be an effective member of the group.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:18 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
The skill you are looking for is probably emotional labour. It's a change in mindset that occurs before any interaction.
Surprisingly, it's not actually hard to do, although it can be hard to remember to do it. Let's say you're in the office and you're cold. Change the focus from you to the other people in the room, and make your focus on making sure the temperature is comfortable for them. Their comfort comes first. If you're only thinking about you, you'll likely pick the wrong words and miss what they are saying because it doesn't agree with your needs. But if you start by asking, "Am I the only one feeling cold?" or "Are you guys warm enough?" or "Is the draft from the window bothering you?" you are pretty much guaranteed not to trigger resentful cooperation.
If may be difficult for you to take this role of the helper, because you will have had contempt and indifference for other people modeled for you as the behaviour of high status people. The head of the football team at school used to shoulder through people in the hall, so on some level you likely think that shouldering through people is the way to be successful. But he didn't shoulder through them until he had the status that made them automatically defer, and if you shoulder your way through, you'll be taken as that stupid lout who doesn't defer to your betters and is too clumsy to be let out in public.
And being helpful and supportive is not inherently a one down, low status position. Leaders take care of their team. A good father comforts a crying child, and provides the groceries with an eye to keeping their kid healthy. That doesn't mean the kid is calling the shots and the father is deferring to the kid.
So to get the right facial expressions and tone, look at people not as coworkers that have to be poked in the right way to make them cooperative, but as your responsibility. "How can I make Maureen's day easier?" is a silent question to ask yourself. "Is there anything I can contribute?" or "If I do this, will it make things harder for them?"
At this point you are taking personal power. You're looking at the group as a team and positioning yourself to be more functional and to contribute. This is like learning to analyze football plays and figuring out where to position yourself on the field as the other players move around. You're not just running after the ball and getting in the way of the other players. If Maureen is working to a deadline, and you start intercepting the phone, she's not going to need you to tell her you are doing it, the same way that the forward is going to notice you getting in the position behind them so that you can kick the ball into their direction if it goes wide.
You can come up with a stock list of questions to ask yourself. "What does this person need?" is a really good one. They DON'T need you to convince them to do you favours. They need to do their job and feel good about themself. Making them feel bad is like tripping up your football forward.
You might find reading some game theory helps you develop the right mindset. Ideas like the game of tit for tat, and the non zero-sum game will show you the logic behind why people pleasing is a critical skill and doing emotional labour pays off. If you win all the time and they lose all the time you are isolating yourself. Whereas if they see that you are committed to making them win as often as possible, they will have incentive to find a role for you and train you in that role to be a more effective player, instead of working to sideline you and trying to exclude you from the game.
When you get into a competition with someone else that puts them into a position where they lose, you are missing almost all of the nuances in the situation. If you are cold and rush to close the window, you don't know if you will cause the server to overheat and crash, or cause Maureen to become too hot to work, and make her resentful. You'll completely fail to find long term solutions.
But you HAVE been asking the right questions, and have observed there is a problem in your interactions. Right now you're basically studying football plays, and can start working out where you can position yourself for maximum effect.
You won't have to worry about your facial expressions and tone when you position yourself as the player who is there to make your co-worker's and your family's and your friends' and your team's lives easier. You'll gain their trust when you do it consistently. You might have resting bitch face, but when the team sees that you not only bring a sweater into the office so they can have the window open or closed depending on what they need, but you bring an extra sweater so that Alfie doesn't freeze either, while Maureen still gets to have the window open, and the server doesn't crash from overheating, they won't care what your features are saying. Your actions will speak louder than your facial muscles.
A lot of this stuff is also what they teach in basic training: "Don't fuck your buddy." You want to lay the groundwork so that when you are struggling, Maureen and Alfie close ranks to protect you. And that means working to figure out when they are struggling, so that you can make it easy for them. What's the easiest way to figure out when they are struggling? Ask them what they need and want, and then assist them to get it. Every time you find a way to help them in a different way you will learn more about how to be an effective member of the group.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:18 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Something about this question just doesn't sit right with me, kind of feels like Speaking direct is right why do you choose to communicate wrongly. It would be helpful to keep in mind that some people grew up in environments where it wasn't safe to speak directly. It's not that we want to be muddy and frustrating in our communication style, these are adaptations that kept us safe.
posted by Sreiny at 12:37 PM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Sreiny at 12:37 PM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Another piece of variation you should know about, btw, is that many people are less able to directly speak up about their own needs SOME of the time. Their capabilities vary as they get tired or stressed, as some other circumstances use up their conflict cope, when specific other people are present who bother them or whom they don't trust, when it is a bit loud, etc.
So your difficulty with a specific person at a specific time might be partly because they just are worse than usual at communicating with everyone about their needs at that moment. Which means you might still have done 90% of what is necessary to elicit information from them - which is a lot better than 20 or 50% - but they just couldn't do the other 10% at that moment, even though they usually can.
posted by brainwane at 9:27 PM on August 14, 2023
So your difficulty with a specific person at a specific time might be partly because they just are worse than usual at communicating with everyone about their needs at that moment. Which means you might still have done 90% of what is necessary to elicit information from them - which is a lot better than 20 or 50% - but they just couldn't do the other 10% at that moment, even though they usually can.
posted by brainwane at 9:27 PM on August 14, 2023
Regarding "would you mind?"
The people who feel bulldozed by a "would you mind?" question are not taking it literally, similarly to how most English speakers do not take a "hi, how are you?" opening salutation literally. They read it as a politeness marker prefixed onto a proposed course of action, not as a meta-request for information on whether they would be okay with the proposed course of action.
There are people who take "would you mind?" literally and answer that question. I believe I am among them. I am, as I understand it, in the minority among US English speakers.
And my spouse pointed out that there would likely be a euphemism treadmill: even if we came up with an unambiguous "please give me information about whether this is ok" prefix, it would likely be co-opted as a politeness marker.
posted by brainwane at 9:32 PM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
The people who feel bulldozed by a "would you mind?" question are not taking it literally, similarly to how most English speakers do not take a "hi, how are you?" opening salutation literally. They read it as a politeness marker prefixed onto a proposed course of action, not as a meta-request for information on whether they would be okay with the proposed course of action.
There are people who take "would you mind?" literally and answer that question. I believe I am among them. I am, as I understand it, in the minority among US English speakers.
And my spouse pointed out that there would likely be a euphemism treadmill: even if we came up with an unambiguous "please give me information about whether this is ok" prefix, it would likely be co-opted as a politeness marker.
posted by brainwane at 9:32 PM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I've just remembered that there are some writings by Suzette Haden Elgin (author of The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense, which I have not yet read) which cast light on the questions wheatlets has asked and the situation she is in.
"In my experience, what often happens with people whose communication skills make them overwhelmingly persuasive/coercive -- and who do have a conscience -- is that the paradoxes become intolerable and they become almost reclusive...." So do watch out for that.
"About Cows, and Ozark English Discourse" shares several examples of more direct or more indirect phrasings of a request, and explains the effects they have on the listener:
"In my experience, what often happens with people whose communication skills make them overwhelmingly persuasive/coercive -- and who do have a conscience -- is that the paradoxes become intolerable and they become almost reclusive...." So do watch out for that.
"About Cows, and Ozark English Discourse" shares several examples of more direct or more indirect phrasings of a request, and explains the effects they have on the listener:
Let's just suppose that when someone is about to speak they have four broad goals for the language sequence they use: that it be understood; that it be believed; that it give pleasure (or at minimum that it not provoke hostility); and that it be remembered. The way in which these goals are ranked in importance for the speaker is a matter of personal choice, with the most typical order probably being understanding, then believing, then either pleasure or remembrance -- depending. A crochety and elitist professor might rank a classroom utterance as RUBP; that is: "I want you to remember this. I hope you understand it. I'd prefer you to believe it, but if you don't, so be it. And I'm not particularly interested in whether it gives you any pleasure or not." The politician making a routine political speech might choose BPRU....posted by brainwane at 7:28 AM on August 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
Here are some of the many alternative ways to start letting somebody know that their cows are on your property and should be removed by said somebody -- with the stipulation that they're all said neutrally, not sarcastically or condescendingly or with hostile intonation....
Each of these utterances demonstrates a speaker's strategy based upon a particular ranking of the four communication goals. Because come the day your neighbor's cows are in your yard and you want that neighbor to come get them, you can't say just any old thing.....
It happens that the best choice on that list, the one least likely to end you up with a chronic cow problem, is the entirely nonstandard #4 with its double modal. That example has as its metamessage: "Now, there's a problem over here, and I'm not pleased, and we need to talk about it, and you need to fix it. But I want you to know that I am on your side and that I admire the way you look after your cows." And its ranking is UPRB.
Chiming in as a direct communicator who doesn't bulldoze other people, here is how I approach getting my needs met in group situations:
Step 1: find out what other people are experiencing and/or what their preferences are
Step 2: take my turn sharing my experience/preference
Step 3: pause to let someone else make suggestions
Step 4: either agree with them or suggest something else
So with the window example, if I am cold and would like the window to be closed, it would go like:
Step 1: "Hey, are you all okay with the temperature in this room?"
Step 2: "I'm kind of chilly!"
Step 3: (Molly offers to lend me her cardigan)
Step 4: (but it's covered in dandruff, so) "Oh, thanks, Molly, but I'm gonna find myself a big ol' blanket."
This is actually a lot trickier if I was feeling too warm.
Step 1: "Hey, are you all okay with the temperature in this room?"
Step 2: "And I'm burning up! Oof, these hot flashes. What am I going to do?"
Step 3.0: (Nobody offers any suggestions)
Step 3.1: "I wish the fridge was working, damn, ice would have helped."
Step 3.2: (Nobody offers suggestions)
Step 4: "Okay, I'm gonna crack the window open just for a bit, and Paul, I have a blanket if you need one. I just need 10 minutes of cool air, folks, thank you for understanding."
... which is a bit bulldozerish perhaps but it can't be helped, I have a genuine need and nobody's offering alternatives. Maybe this does make other people feel bullied - they are welcome to complain to HR or send me an angry email or badmouth me to other colleagues behind my back or whatever they like. I did my best to help them speak up. Beyond this, their upset feelings are not my responsibility.
posted by MiraK at 1:59 AM on August 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Step 1: find out what other people are experiencing and/or what their preferences are
Step 2: take my turn sharing my experience/preference
Step 3: pause to let someone else make suggestions
Step 4: either agree with them or suggest something else
So with the window example, if I am cold and would like the window to be closed, it would go like:
Step 1: "Hey, are you all okay with the temperature in this room?"
Step 2: "I'm kind of chilly!"
Step 3: (Molly offers to lend me her cardigan)
Step 4: (but it's covered in dandruff, so) "Oh, thanks, Molly, but I'm gonna find myself a big ol' blanket."
This is actually a lot trickier if I was feeling too warm.
Step 1: "Hey, are you all okay with the temperature in this room?"
Step 2: "And I'm burning up! Oof, these hot flashes. What am I going to do?"
Step 3.0: (Nobody offers any suggestions)
Step 3.1: "I wish the fridge was working, damn, ice would have helped."
Step 3.2: (Nobody offers suggestions)
Step 4: "Okay, I'm gonna crack the window open just for a bit, and Paul, I have a blanket if you need one. I just need 10 minutes of cool air, folks, thank you for understanding."
... which is a bit bulldozerish perhaps but it can't be helped, I have a genuine need and nobody's offering alternatives. Maybe this does make other people feel bullied - they are welcome to complain to HR or send me an angry email or badmouth me to other colleagues behind my back or whatever they like. I did my best to help them speak up. Beyond this, their upset feelings are not my responsibility.
posted by MiraK at 1:59 AM on August 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
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posted by nanook at 1:05 PM on August 13, 2023