Tour de France 101
July 5, 2023 7:30 AM Subscribe
I watched the new Netflix Tour de France series and loved it, but I'm left with some basic questions.
1. Why do they care so much what the other teams are doing? Why don't they just figure out the pace and timing their own team needs and do that regardless of what's going on around them? I'm thinking about how one rider will pull out ahead to get another cyclist to also speed up -- why doesn't the cyclist just ignore the taunting and go with a plan?
2. In the last episode we see who the winner of the whole race is while they're still up in the mountains. If he had had an accident during the bit when they were in Paris, could someone else have won?
3. For the people who want to win that final dramatic sprint: is there a moment when they're all allowed to make a break for it (after the tour through the Louvre, etc) or is it just a "hmmm, we're starting to go... LET'S ALL GO" unspoken agreement, or...?
4. Where does the money come from? Is it all advertising?
5. Why doesn't everyone get to do the final day in Paris?
1. Why do they care so much what the other teams are doing? Why don't they just figure out the pace and timing their own team needs and do that regardless of what's going on around them? I'm thinking about how one rider will pull out ahead to get another cyclist to also speed up -- why doesn't the cyclist just ignore the taunting and go with a plan?
2. In the last episode we see who the winner of the whole race is while they're still up in the mountains. If he had had an accident during the bit when they were in Paris, could someone else have won?
3. For the people who want to win that final dramatic sprint: is there a moment when they're all allowed to make a break for it (after the tour through the Louvre, etc) or is it just a "hmmm, we're starting to go... LET'S ALL GO" unspoken agreement, or...?
4. Where does the money come from? Is it all advertising?
5. Why doesn't everyone get to do the final day in Paris?
[amateur cyclist, also watched this series]
1. Long distance races mean that the slight advantages can really spell out to a considerable one over time. Meaning, it's very difficult psychologically to gain on a lead late in the race - from my understanding, you must always be in the front or very near front to have a chance to win.
2. My understanding is that the Paris race was not part of the "General Classification" tallies, and was after the mountains.
3. Whenever they want, but also very difficult if it is timed incorrectly.
4. I can't speak to this as much, but mostly companies. Why the US Postal Service (the US sponsor during Lance heyday) wants to invest in cycling is beyond me.
5. Don't know this one!
posted by pando11 at 7:40 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
1. Long distance races mean that the slight advantages can really spell out to a considerable one over time. Meaning, it's very difficult psychologically to gain on a lead late in the race - from my understanding, you must always be in the front or very near front to have a chance to win.
2. My understanding is that the Paris race was not part of the "General Classification" tallies, and was after the mountains.
3. Whenever they want, but also very difficult if it is timed incorrectly.
4. I can't speak to this as much, but mostly companies. Why the US Postal Service (the US sponsor during Lance heyday) wants to invest in cycling is beyond me.
5. Don't know this one!
posted by pando11 at 7:40 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
1. Because every team sport cares what the other team is doing. You could say the same thing about football: why don’t they just play their defense and not worry about the opponent’s offense? Because the opponent’s offense has thought about their defense and knows how to attack it, so they have to adapt their defense. Same thing in cycling; teams have to adapt their strategies knowing that other teams are trying to take advantage of the weaknesses in their plans.
2. Theoretically, yes. But if you’re in the yellow jersey on the last stage, you’re riding as conservatively as you can, and your team is doing everything it can to keep you from so much as hitting a pebble. But also there’s some unwritten rules about not attacking when someone’s down, so even if the yellow jersey did go down, it’s not clear that the other GC leaders would try to take advantage.
3. It’s unspoken, but there’s a natural limit because you’re physically unable to sprint for very long. It’s pretty easy to guess where most sprints will start.
4. The money for what? Team operations? Yeah, mostly advertising, which is why teams are all named after sponsors and jerseys are covered in logos. There’s also a bunch of in-kind donations - e.g., bike manufacturers will give teams bikes, Gatorade is giving a ton of product away for free, etc.
5. Because they’ve dropped out of the race. The Tour is a single race, not a series of individual races. If you don’t finish one of the stages, you can’t start the next stage. A lot of people can’t finish stages, for a variety of reasons. Not just crashing out. Some guys will withdraw because they want to conserve energy for the rest of the season once they’re out of GC contention. This is like asking why not everyone runs the last mile of a marathon. You have to run the first 25 to run the 26th.
6. Cycling is more than the Tour. There are races from February to November. Not everybody rides in every race, but yeah, athletes spend most of the season with their teams. Lebron James plays the whole NBA season with the Lakers. He doesn’t just meet up with the team when they play games against the Denver Nuggets. But cycling is even more difficult than basketball, because it’s an outdoor sport with terrain requirements. Even when you’re not racing, you need to be somewhere where you can practice every day with both hills and nice enough weather that you can actually ride those hills. Most teams practice in Catalonia. If you just happen to be a world class cyclist who grew up in Girona, great. If not, you have to choose between relocating your family there or letting them stay “home” while you practice and compete 10 months a year. Some families will relocate. Others have jobs, school, etc. tying them to their homes and can’t just pick up and move. This is how it is in every supercompetitive field. Not every actor lives in New York or LA, but if you want to work regularly you either have to spend a lot of time in New York and/or LA, or be content doing local commercials and community theatre. You could be Al Pacino but it’ll be hard to land a starring role if you never leave your hometown in Wisconsin.
That’s to say nothing of the doping question. At least historically, cyclists have been on such a rigorous cocktail of drugs that they needed continuous medical supervision to ensure compliance with the pharmaceutical protocol. It’s hard to do that if one of your riders is in Italy, one is in Belgium, and one is in the US. You could hire a local doctor for each one, but that’s insanely expensive, attracts a ton of attention (which you’re trying to avoid), and creates multiple potential whistleblowers.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:15 AM on July 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
2. Theoretically, yes. But if you’re in the yellow jersey on the last stage, you’re riding as conservatively as you can, and your team is doing everything it can to keep you from so much as hitting a pebble. But also there’s some unwritten rules about not attacking when someone’s down, so even if the yellow jersey did go down, it’s not clear that the other GC leaders would try to take advantage.
3. It’s unspoken, but there’s a natural limit because you’re physically unable to sprint for very long. It’s pretty easy to guess where most sprints will start.
4. The money for what? Team operations? Yeah, mostly advertising, which is why teams are all named after sponsors and jerseys are covered in logos. There’s also a bunch of in-kind donations - e.g., bike manufacturers will give teams bikes, Gatorade is giving a ton of product away for free, etc.
5. Because they’ve dropped out of the race. The Tour is a single race, not a series of individual races. If you don’t finish one of the stages, you can’t start the next stage. A lot of people can’t finish stages, for a variety of reasons. Not just crashing out. Some guys will withdraw because they want to conserve energy for the rest of the season once they’re out of GC contention. This is like asking why not everyone runs the last mile of a marathon. You have to run the first 25 to run the 26th.
6. Cycling is more than the Tour. There are races from February to November. Not everybody rides in every race, but yeah, athletes spend most of the season with their teams. Lebron James plays the whole NBA season with the Lakers. He doesn’t just meet up with the team when they play games against the Denver Nuggets. But cycling is even more difficult than basketball, because it’s an outdoor sport with terrain requirements. Even when you’re not racing, you need to be somewhere where you can practice every day with both hills and nice enough weather that you can actually ride those hills. Most teams practice in Catalonia. If you just happen to be a world class cyclist who grew up in Girona, great. If not, you have to choose between relocating your family there or letting them stay “home” while you practice and compete 10 months a year. Some families will relocate. Others have jobs, school, etc. tying them to their homes and can’t just pick up and move. This is how it is in every supercompetitive field. Not every actor lives in New York or LA, but if you want to work regularly you either have to spend a lot of time in New York and/or LA, or be content doing local commercials and community theatre. You could be Al Pacino but it’ll be hard to land a starring role if you never leave your hometown in Wisconsin.
That’s to say nothing of the doping question. At least historically, cyclists have been on such a rigorous cocktail of drugs that they needed continuous medical supervision to ensure compliance with the pharmaceutical protocol. It’s hard to do that if one of your riders is in Italy, one is in Belgium, and one is in the US. You could hire a local doctor for each one, but that’s insanely expensive, attracts a ton of attention (which you’re trying to avoid), and creates multiple potential whistleblowers.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:15 AM on July 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
1. The pace that would be needed to win a given stage isn’t ever known in advance - it’s largely a function of the way the stage works out in practice. Could be because of terrain (esp. hills), weather (esp. cross-winds), your / your teammates’ / other riders’ energy levels, other teams’ priorities on the day, whether an escape gets up the road ahead of the peloton & if so what kind of lead they have at what distance, etc etc - all playing out very dynamically over the whole day’s racing. If some team or rider decides to pick a pace & stick to it, that’s just one more input variable that everyone else is using as their baseline to compete against - and it would be quite predictable.
2. The GC is usually decided long before the final stage to Paris, which is largely ceremonial. The significance of the mountains (also to lesser extent: time trial stages) is that those are the days when the eventual winner is best able to open up big time gaps over their rivals. The final stage is flat & predictable & therefore easy for the peloton to control, so whatever gap exists in the GC after the second-to-last stage is very unlikely to change. In the modern era it’s unheard-of / more or less impossible for the GC standings to change in Paris, no matter what.
3. When to sprint for the line is a basically a game of chicken. If you go too early, you’ll run out of legs & someone else will pass you before the line. Go too late, and you’ll miss someone else’s move and/or run out of road. But in principle, you can go whenever you want - sometimes a lone escapee will ride the last 100km solo & take the stage, so you can say they sprinted 100km from the line if you like.
4. Advertising & corporate sponsorship.
5. Some riders have retired because of injury etc. Everyone who’s still riding will take part in the final stage.
6. There’s a whole season of pro cycling, all over the world. TdF is just the biggest deal, but there are many many other stage races and one-day races and world championships etc etc throughout the season. Just like any other big-time professional sport - it’s a full time commitment.
posted by Puppy McSock at 8:17 AM on July 5, 2023
2. The GC is usually decided long before the final stage to Paris, which is largely ceremonial. The significance of the mountains (also to lesser extent: time trial stages) is that those are the days when the eventual winner is best able to open up big time gaps over their rivals. The final stage is flat & predictable & therefore easy for the peloton to control, so whatever gap exists in the GC after the second-to-last stage is very unlikely to change. In the modern era it’s unheard-of / more or less impossible for the GC standings to change in Paris, no matter what.
3. When to sprint for the line is a basically a game of chicken. If you go too early, you’ll run out of legs & someone else will pass you before the line. Go too late, and you’ll miss someone else’s move and/or run out of road. But in principle, you can go whenever you want - sometimes a lone escapee will ride the last 100km solo & take the stage, so you can say they sprinted 100km from the line if you like.
4. Advertising & corporate sponsorship.
5. Some riders have retired because of injury etc. Everyone who’s still riding will take part in the final stage.
6. There’s a whole season of pro cycling, all over the world. TdF is just the biggest deal, but there are many many other stage races and one-day races and world championships etc etc throughout the season. Just like any other big-time professional sport - it’s a full time commitment.
posted by Puppy McSock at 8:17 AM on July 5, 2023
1. Why do they care so much what the other teams are doing?
Because their plan might not be right. They're very very much not going all out across the whole tour -- they're trying to strike a balance between tiring the other teams out, saving as much energy as possible, and still winning. They have to balance how much energy other teams are putting in. It's so many days in a row that it's not like a marathon where you can give it everything and then be done and recover the next day -- it's designed to completely tire you out, so they have to pay attention to what other teams are doing.
2. In the last episode we see who the winner of the whole race is while they're still up in the mountains. If he had had an accident during the bit when they were in Paris, could someone else have won?
Paris is generally considered symbolic for the GC, but it is really part of the race. Yes, if the leader had crashed out during that leg, he wouldn't have won. If the race is super close (like, single-digit seconds), it's not outside of the realm of possibility that the GC contenders could actually race the last day, but that is extremely rare.
3. For the people who want to win that final dramatic sprint: is there a moment when they're all allowed to make a break for it (after the tour through the Louvre, etc) or is it just a "hmmm, we're starting to go... LET'S ALL GO" unspoken agreement, or...?
There's no rule, it's the same thing as above -- they want to save their energy as long as possible, and then kick at just the right second to get their maximum speed for just long enough. It's important to note how much of a massive advantage it is to be right behind someone, so someone going out early is going to use a lot more energy than someone behind a train of teammates who will peel off one by one. If you watch a lot of sprint endings you can see how sometimes people go too early and they fade and then someone else will nip them at the line.
4. Where does the money come from? Is it all advertising?
Functionally, yes. Some teams are a little more complicated like Astana which is functionally funded by the Kazakhstan government. Cycling is huge in some parts of the world... I don't know if they talked about it in the documentary but each leg is preceded by like an hourlong parade of advertisers and stuff that come through the whole route.
5. Why doesn't everyone get to do the final day in Paris?
Everyone who makes it to Paris gets to do Paris, but not everyone makes it! You have to start and finish every day, and people go out for several reasons: crashes/injury, obviously. exhaustion. sometimes semi-planned exhaustion (like a teammate who is going to help for 2 weeks and then not at the end). There are also time limits on the stages -- in general, you have to finish in 125% of the time of the winner or you get DQ'd. And some people just choose not to.
6. One of the cyclists (I think it was Geraint Thomas) talks about being away from home for most of the year. Why do they have to be away so much -- is it so they can train as a team? Or are there qualifying races? Or...?
The other races aren't qualifying races, exactly -- there are 3 Grand Tours (Giro D'Italia, Tour de France, Vuelta Espana), and they are all real races. Some people do all 3 every year, some don't. There are also lots of other races all the time. It's close to a year-round sport, with races all over the world. Each team is also WAY bigger than the people they send to the TDF -- they're all training together wherever they're based and like... doing their sport all year.
posted by brainmouse at 8:18 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Because their plan might not be right. They're very very much not going all out across the whole tour -- they're trying to strike a balance between tiring the other teams out, saving as much energy as possible, and still winning. They have to balance how much energy other teams are putting in. It's so many days in a row that it's not like a marathon where you can give it everything and then be done and recover the next day -- it's designed to completely tire you out, so they have to pay attention to what other teams are doing.
2. In the last episode we see who the winner of the whole race is while they're still up in the mountains. If he had had an accident during the bit when they were in Paris, could someone else have won?
Paris is generally considered symbolic for the GC, but it is really part of the race. Yes, if the leader had crashed out during that leg, he wouldn't have won. If the race is super close (like, single-digit seconds), it's not outside of the realm of possibility that the GC contenders could actually race the last day, but that is extremely rare.
3. For the people who want to win that final dramatic sprint: is there a moment when they're all allowed to make a break for it (after the tour through the Louvre, etc) or is it just a "hmmm, we're starting to go... LET'S ALL GO" unspoken agreement, or...?
There's no rule, it's the same thing as above -- they want to save their energy as long as possible, and then kick at just the right second to get their maximum speed for just long enough. It's important to note how much of a massive advantage it is to be right behind someone, so someone going out early is going to use a lot more energy than someone behind a train of teammates who will peel off one by one. If you watch a lot of sprint endings you can see how sometimes people go too early and they fade and then someone else will nip them at the line.
4. Where does the money come from? Is it all advertising?
Functionally, yes. Some teams are a little more complicated like Astana which is functionally funded by the Kazakhstan government. Cycling is huge in some parts of the world... I don't know if they talked about it in the documentary but each leg is preceded by like an hourlong parade of advertisers and stuff that come through the whole route.
5. Why doesn't everyone get to do the final day in Paris?
Everyone who makes it to Paris gets to do Paris, but not everyone makes it! You have to start and finish every day, and people go out for several reasons: crashes/injury, obviously. exhaustion. sometimes semi-planned exhaustion (like a teammate who is going to help for 2 weeks and then not at the end). There are also time limits on the stages -- in general, you have to finish in 125% of the time of the winner or you get DQ'd. And some people just choose not to.
6. One of the cyclists (I think it was Geraint Thomas) talks about being away from home for most of the year. Why do they have to be away so much -- is it so they can train as a team? Or are there qualifying races? Or...?
The other races aren't qualifying races, exactly -- there are 3 Grand Tours (Giro D'Italia, Tour de France, Vuelta Espana), and they are all real races. Some people do all 3 every year, some don't. There are also lots of other races all the time. It's close to a year-round sport, with races all over the world. Each team is also WAY bigger than the people they send to the TDF -- they're all training together wherever they're based and like... doing their sport all year.
posted by brainmouse at 8:18 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
1. They care what other teams are doing because cycling is a dynamic, team event. "Drafting" means riding behind somebody else, which allows you to use way less energy. So it's not just each team doing a collaborative effort - there's a more complex game theory / prisoner's dilemma thing happening.
2. Yes, but it's pretty unlikely. Generally, that last stage into paris is a procession until they get to Paris. If the leader at that point crashes, the field will wait for them to catch back up. I suppose they could crash and be so injured that they have to abandon there on the spot but it's quite rare.
3. It's an unspoken agreement - once the pack gets into the circuit in Paris, some riders generally try to breakaway, and the sprinters' teams try to control things and set up their sprinters for that final surge.
4. Yup, it's big business - there are lots of advertisers. People line the route, and for an hour before the race gets there, there's an hour of the promotional caravan of advertisers passing by, handing out schwag, etc.
5. People have to make a time cut (which is the winner's time, plus a certain percentage, depending on the difficulty of the stage) in order to be allowed to start the next day. This tends to be relevant as sprinters need to ride fast enough in the mountains in order to be able to start the next day and eventually get to that stage in Paris. They may finish many many minutes behind the winner, but can't just slow walk the whole day - they've gotta work.
6. They're away racing, and they're at training camps and altitude camps.
posted by entropone at 8:19 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
2. Yes, but it's pretty unlikely. Generally, that last stage into paris is a procession until they get to Paris. If the leader at that point crashes, the field will wait for them to catch back up. I suppose they could crash and be so injured that they have to abandon there on the spot but it's quite rare.
3. It's an unspoken agreement - once the pack gets into the circuit in Paris, some riders generally try to breakaway, and the sprinters' teams try to control things and set up their sprinters for that final surge.
4. Yup, it's big business - there are lots of advertisers. People line the route, and for an hour before the race gets there, there's an hour of the promotional caravan of advertisers passing by, handing out schwag, etc.
5. People have to make a time cut (which is the winner's time, plus a certain percentage, depending on the difficulty of the stage) in order to be allowed to start the next day. This tends to be relevant as sprinters need to ride fast enough in the mountains in order to be able to start the next day and eventually get to that stage in Paris. They may finish many many minutes behind the winner, but can't just slow walk the whole day - they've gotta work.
6. They're away racing, and they're at training camps and altitude camps.
posted by entropone at 8:19 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
An important point about timing for question #2: riders aren’t timed from when they cross the starting line to when they cross the finish line. Riders crossing the finish line in groups are credited with the same time, even if they’re slightly ahead or behind. So if you and I are riding together, but my front wheel is even with your back wheel, we tied, even though technically you beat me. When you chain this together over dozens of riders, this can mean that the 100th rider to cross the finish line gets the same time as the first, even though the first guy might have gotten there two minutes earlier. In order for the guy in the yellow jersey to lose it on the Paris stage, he’d not only need to finish at the back of the peloton, he’d need to finish several minutes off the back of the peloton. Even if he did crash, or flat, or just have tired legs, he has a team of pullers ensuring that he’ll stay with the peloton. This would be so catastrophic as to be nearly impossible. It would be like if a football team was winning by 15 points with ten seconds left and they had the ball. There’s a scenario where the other team could win, but it’s so improbable that if it ever happened it would instantly become the most famous game in the history of sports. The rules of cycling are set up to avoid this.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:41 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kevinbelt at 9:41 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
The most important thing to understanding road cycling is to recognise that it is fundamentally a team event. No one wins a grand tour unless they are part of a good team where more or less everyone else is subservient to the needs of the team leader.
The second most important thing to understand is that drafting makes an enormous difference to the speed that you can travel, and the amount of effort you expend.
Both of these things together pretty much drive all of the tactics you see on the various stages of the Tour. Except the time trial, which is just "who can time trial the fastest?"
Mountain stages are physically harder than flat stages. It spreads the field out and you can pick up more time difference there than on flat stages. The winner is always crowned in the mountains. No one really competes with the yellow jersey in Paris and he will be incredibly well protected by his teammates. If he doesn't finish they've lost everything they've worked for and there's no bigger prize than the TdF.
Road cycling is absolutely massive in much of Europe. There's huge amounts of value for advertisers, and most teams are sponsored by more than one organisation. Which is why they all have stupid team names.
Of course, this year no one should care who wins the yellow jersey, it's all about the sprint stage wins. Fingers crossed Cavendish.
posted by plonkee at 10:00 AM on July 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
The second most important thing to understand is that drafting makes an enormous difference to the speed that you can travel, and the amount of effort you expend.
Both of these things together pretty much drive all of the tactics you see on the various stages of the Tour. Except the time trial, which is just "who can time trial the fastest?"
Mountain stages are physically harder than flat stages. It spreads the field out and you can pick up more time difference there than on flat stages. The winner is always crowned in the mountains. No one really competes with the yellow jersey in Paris and he will be incredibly well protected by his teammates. If he doesn't finish they've lost everything they've worked for and there's no bigger prize than the TdF.
Road cycling is absolutely massive in much of Europe. There's huge amounts of value for advertisers, and most teams are sponsored by more than one organisation. Which is why they all have stupid team names.
Of course, this year no one should care who wins the yellow jersey, it's all about the sprint stage wins. Fingers crossed Cavendish.
posted by plonkee at 10:00 AM on July 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is a good explainer of how the Tour de France works.
Each stage of the Tour is long and difficult -- today's stage 5 was over 160 km/100 miles of distance with 3300m/ 11,000 feet of climbing. And the riders race at this intensity for 3 weeks across different types of terrain in each stage. So, much of the Tour is powering through all of that riding to be able to push in the type of riding. that each rider excels in.
The winner of the Tour is the rider with the lowest total time in each stage over the entire race. The stages where the riders have the most opportunity to gain large amounts of time are on the big climbs, and so the riders who specializing in climbing excel on those stages and pick up significant time.
There is a cutoff time for each stage -- in order to race the next stage, riders have to finish within a certain amount or percentage of the time as the winner of that stage. So bigger riders who don't climb as well may struggle to reach the time cut for a difficult mountain stage in order to race the next stage. Also, crashes and injuries occur. Racing bicycles at these speedsthat close to other people is dangerous.
posted by andrewraff at 10:03 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Each stage of the Tour is long and difficult -- today's stage 5 was over 160 km/100 miles of distance with 3300m/ 11,000 feet of climbing. And the riders race at this intensity for 3 weeks across different types of terrain in each stage. So, much of the Tour is powering through all of that riding to be able to push in the type of riding. that each rider excels in.
The winner of the Tour is the rider with the lowest total time in each stage over the entire race. The stages where the riders have the most opportunity to gain large amounts of time are on the big climbs, and so the riders who specializing in climbing excel on those stages and pick up significant time.
There is a cutoff time for each stage -- in order to race the next stage, riders have to finish within a certain amount or percentage of the time as the winner of that stage. So bigger riders who don't climb as well may struggle to reach the time cut for a difficult mountain stage in order to race the next stage. Also, crashes and injuries occur. Racing bicycles at these speedsthat close to other people is dangerous.
posted by andrewraff at 10:03 AM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
1. Tactics are complex, and energy expenditure is a huge overarching concern. If a rider attacks and the rider behind just keeps at their own pace, there's a chance for the attacking rider to gain a huge advantage - see today's Stage 6 as a good example of that. It wasn't the case of intentionality (probably) for the dropped rider; rather the attacking rider (I'm being vague here) had "good legs" today and the other rider didn't. Those time gaps add up over three weeks, so if you have the legs to follow an attack by a key rival, you do it so a bad day (hopefully) doesn't kill you later in the race.
As for "just calculating your team's pace and following it", 8 riders alone will use far, far more energy over a stage than the other ~200 riders. You need to cooperate, to a degree, with other teams, all of whom are following their own agendas (some looking for GC, some looking for stage wins, some for sprints, or some combination of the above). So, it's coopetition all the way.
3. Sprints are driven by team strength and course, broadly. You'll start seeing the leadout trains organizing at 10-5km to go, and really keeping the pace high so other, weaker teams can't pass, have as good a placement for the sprint, or launch a breakaway attempt. Then, the leadout riders start dropping one by one, burnt out by pushing the wind at speed, until it's just the sprinters blasting to the finish from a few hundred meters out. So what looks like a "let's all go!" moment is actually a choreographed dance. The sprint in yesterday's Stage 4 is a great example of what happens when the course prevents things from going to plan.
For the final stage on the Champs Elysee in particular, the ride is treated as ceremonial until a certain point, but that's by convention, not rules to my knowledge.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 11:07 AM on July 5, 2023
As for "just calculating your team's pace and following it", 8 riders alone will use far, far more energy over a stage than the other ~200 riders. You need to cooperate, to a degree, with other teams, all of whom are following their own agendas (some looking for GC, some looking for stage wins, some for sprints, or some combination of the above). So, it's coopetition all the way.
3. Sprints are driven by team strength and course, broadly. You'll start seeing the leadout trains organizing at 10-5km to go, and really keeping the pace high so other, weaker teams can't pass, have as good a placement for the sprint, or launch a breakaway attempt. Then, the leadout riders start dropping one by one, burnt out by pushing the wind at speed, until it's just the sprinters blasting to the finish from a few hundred meters out. So what looks like a "let's all go!" moment is actually a choreographed dance. The sprint in yesterday's Stage 4 is a great example of what happens when the course prevents things from going to plan.
For the final stage on the Champs Elysee in particular, the ride is treated as ceremonial until a certain point, but that's by convention, not rules to my knowledge.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 11:07 AM on July 5, 2023
#1 has been answered well, but I'll add that even in running, such as marathon racing, there's similar strategy, despite it being an individual race with basically no drafting.
I didn't understand that, since as you note, it seems like the strategy to minimize expected time would be to just pick your expected pace and go at it. After all, that's the advice casual runners get.
I think there are two interrelated reasons: 1) As Puppy McSock noted, the winning pace isn't known in advance. Even professional athletes don't know their own capabilities, much less the other runners'. They don't know exactly what their body is capable of that day because conditions change and bodies vary. 2) If you're trying to win, the difference between coming in 5th and 15th is small; the difference between coming in 4th and 1st is huge. So if runners break away, the others might want to follow them, risking going faster than optimal and not being able to sustain that pace, or keeping a steady pace, risking not going as fast as they might be able to sustain. And even without drafting, it's easier to follow someone because it requires less mental strain. (That's why it's an advantage to run with a pacemaker and why women who run with male pacemakers run marathons an average of 2 minutes faster.)
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:32 PM on July 5, 2023
I didn't understand that, since as you note, it seems like the strategy to minimize expected time would be to just pick your expected pace and go at it. After all, that's the advice casual runners get.
I think there are two interrelated reasons: 1) As Puppy McSock noted, the winning pace isn't known in advance. Even professional athletes don't know their own capabilities, much less the other runners'. They don't know exactly what their body is capable of that day because conditions change and bodies vary. 2) If you're trying to win, the difference between coming in 5th and 15th is small; the difference between coming in 4th and 1st is huge. So if runners break away, the others might want to follow them, risking going faster than optimal and not being able to sustain that pace, or keeping a steady pace, risking not going as fast as they might be able to sustain. And even without drafting, it's easier to follow someone because it requires less mental strain. (That's why it's an advantage to run with a pacemaker and why women who run with male pacemakers run marathons an average of 2 minutes faster.)
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:32 PM on July 5, 2023
I believe the one time that the last day was really contested was 1989: Fignon / LeMond, which came down to 8 seconds! (https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/tour-de-france-history-greg-lemond-snatches-the-closest-tour-ever)
posted by Kiwi at 2:00 PM on July 5, 2023
posted by Kiwi at 2:00 PM on July 5, 2023
Tactics matter because racing a bike is all about conserving energy when somebody else is expending it. Drafting saves something like 30% of your energy output. That is a huge advantage. As somebody who raced at a far far lower level, I can say that it was a hard lesson to learn that you should only ever be at the front, in the wind, for a particular reason. Not just because you feel good.
Teams show up to a race, any race, not just the Tour, with a main plan, and many backup plans. Plans change because riders feel worse or better than expected, somebody crashes, the weather changes, there is a break up the road that you weren't expecting, your main sprinter got a flat early on, etc etc. You have to be able to read the race and make adjustments accordingly. That's hard. Not everybody can do that. Riders in the professional peloton, for the most part, have race radios, so their team directors can issue instructions. When there aren't radios, ah that's when things can get interesting.
Winning a stage at the Tour is a hugely prestigious accomplishment. A rider might never win another pro bike race, but he (and yes, I know there's a women's Tour, but we are talking about the men's so I'll use he) will always be known as a Tour de France stage winner. Winning one of the leader's jerseys (climbers, young rider, sprinter, and the overall) are also very important accomplishments. Sponsors love to see their riders on the podium at the Tour.
Money also comes from the local, regional and national governments. The Tour is the biggest race in the world, and towns and regions pay to have the race start, finish, or go through their areas. ASO, the organization that puts on the Tour, along with other races, has a vested interest in promoting tourism in France, so the race is shot like a promotional brochure.
The vast majority of racers do not finish because of injury. The time cut exists but rarely do riders finish outside it. Another term for the group finishing last, or the grupetto, is the "laughing group," but many current and former sprinters will tell you there is no laughing going on when finishing on a hilly stage.
There was an instance (at the Tour, I believe) a couple years ago, of a sprinter just barely making the time cut in a mountaintop stage. His whole team was waiting for him at the summit finish. Teams want their full complement competing, whether it's the favored GC or sprinter or whether it's the domestique (worker bee) going back to the car and carrying back bottles or setting tempo for many many kilometers. Support riders play a huge role in the success of the team.
Most professional riders are racing fewer days than they were ten or twenty years ago, but they are spending many weeks at altitude camp, which is usually in Spain. Particularly if they are expected to be selected for one of the three Grand Tours (Giro d'Italia, the Tour, and the Vuelta a Espana). That means a lot of time away from home. Riders are getting developed and selected for the biggest races at younger ages. It's more common to see riders who are 20 and 21 in the Grand Tours, and even riders who are in their upper 20s are considered getting a bit long in the tooth. It's such an unforgiving, beautiful sport.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:22 PM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Teams show up to a race, any race, not just the Tour, with a main plan, and many backup plans. Plans change because riders feel worse or better than expected, somebody crashes, the weather changes, there is a break up the road that you weren't expecting, your main sprinter got a flat early on, etc etc. You have to be able to read the race and make adjustments accordingly. That's hard. Not everybody can do that. Riders in the professional peloton, for the most part, have race radios, so their team directors can issue instructions. When there aren't radios, ah that's when things can get interesting.
Winning a stage at the Tour is a hugely prestigious accomplishment. A rider might never win another pro bike race, but he (and yes, I know there's a women's Tour, but we are talking about the men's so I'll use he) will always be known as a Tour de France stage winner. Winning one of the leader's jerseys (climbers, young rider, sprinter, and the overall) are also very important accomplishments. Sponsors love to see their riders on the podium at the Tour.
Money also comes from the local, regional and national governments. The Tour is the biggest race in the world, and towns and regions pay to have the race start, finish, or go through their areas. ASO, the organization that puts on the Tour, along with other races, has a vested interest in promoting tourism in France, so the race is shot like a promotional brochure.
The vast majority of racers do not finish because of injury. The time cut exists but rarely do riders finish outside it. Another term for the group finishing last, or the grupetto, is the "laughing group," but many current and former sprinters will tell you there is no laughing going on when finishing on a hilly stage.
There was an instance (at the Tour, I believe) a couple years ago, of a sprinter just barely making the time cut in a mountaintop stage. His whole team was waiting for him at the summit finish. Teams want their full complement competing, whether it's the favored GC or sprinter or whether it's the domestique (worker bee) going back to the car and carrying back bottles or setting tempo for many many kilometers. Support riders play a huge role in the success of the team.
Most professional riders are racing fewer days than they were ten or twenty years ago, but they are spending many weeks at altitude camp, which is usually in Spain. Particularly if they are expected to be selected for one of the three Grand Tours (Giro d'Italia, the Tour, and the Vuelta a Espana). That means a lot of time away from home. Riders are getting developed and selected for the biggest races at younger ages. It's more common to see riders who are 20 and 21 in the Grand Tours, and even riders who are in their upper 20s are considered getting a bit long in the tooth. It's such an unforgiving, beautiful sport.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:22 PM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: > There was an instance (at the Tour, I believe) a couple years ago, of a sprinter just barely making the time cut in a mountaintop stage. His whole team was waiting for him at the summit finish
There's a great moment in this series showing one of the sprinters trying to make that cut.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:33 PM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's a great moment in this series showing one of the sprinters trying to make that cut.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:33 PM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh yes it was Fabio Jakobsen.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:00 PM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:00 PM on July 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
1. Just to add a little to what's already been well explained, it wasn't "not caring" exactly, but the Lance Armstrong teams of the mid 2000s had a strategy similar to what you're asking. There's a reason Lance's honorific nickname within the sport is "The Boss," and that's because he and Chris Carmichael (and probably some others) had a pretty strict strategy of getting wins for Lance. Especially in the Hincapie, Landis, Savoldelli, Ekimov days (2004-5, US Postal/Discovery) they would almost run a team time-trial up the mountains and it was incredibly effective. It looked like they basically calculated what speed they needed in order to make a particular finishing time, and it seemed like they detailed it down to specific gears and cadences at specific parts. This is one of the things I feel wouldn't be possible without race radio, and I'd really like to see a special no-radio race and see what it's like. Just one a year!
Another thing is applying your question to NASCAR (coincidentally the only other sport I can find where every team competes in the same event at the same time). Why don't the drivers just go faster than the other drivers? Because it's not that easy when the other drivers are trying to do the same thing. :) There are five different races in the Tours, corresponding to the special jerseys (mountain, points (sprint), young rider, team, and yellow jersey winner)
(Everybody dopes, so I leave that as a common denominator within the era)
3. The mechanics of sprints are emergent behavior. Someone usually thinks they're fast enough to not get caught, or someone else goes out in front not expecting to win but to get some TV time (happens elsewhere in races, too), or a team gets organized in the pack and starts firing up the engines with a lead-out and everybody else follows suit.
posted by rhizome at 2:55 AM on July 6, 2023
Another thing is applying your question to NASCAR (coincidentally the only other sport I can find where every team competes in the same event at the same time). Why don't the drivers just go faster than the other drivers? Because it's not that easy when the other drivers are trying to do the same thing. :) There are five different races in the Tours, corresponding to the special jerseys (mountain, points (sprint), young rider, team, and yellow jersey winner)
(Everybody dopes, so I leave that as a common denominator within the era)
3. The mechanics of sprints are emergent behavior. Someone usually thinks they're fast enough to not get caught, or someone else goes out in front not expecting to win but to get some TV time (happens elsewhere in races, too), or a team gets organized in the pack and starts firing up the engines with a lead-out and everybody else follows suit.
posted by rhizome at 2:55 AM on July 6, 2023
I believe the one time that the last day was really contested was 1989: Fignon / LeMond, which came down to 8 seconds!
A bit of a special case as it was a time trial into Paris, with individual riders riding for the best time. Mostly it's a standard stage into Paris and tradition applies. Despite 1989 being super exciting the sprint makes for a guaranteed exciting finish.
posted by biffa at 2:59 AM on July 6, 2023
A bit of a special case as it was a time trial into Paris, with individual riders riding for the best time. Mostly it's a standard stage into Paris and tradition applies. Despite 1989 being super exciting the sprint makes for a guaranteed exciting finish.
posted by biffa at 2:59 AM on July 6, 2023
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posted by The corpse in the library at 7:32 AM on July 5, 2023