Who tricked us into accepting toasted subs?

June 21, 2023 5:01 PM

Why did anyone start toasting subs? Like, toasted sliced bread on a sandwich I get. Grilled cheese sandwiches are fantastic. Panini took me a while to get my head around, but I get it.

But some time in the ‘90s, I went to a place called “Miami Subs,” and got whatever it was I got, and the bread was toasted through, so much so that I wound up covered in crumbs with the roof of my mouth bleeding. The word “toasted” didn’t appear anywhere on the menu that I can remember.

Somebody at a Quiznos or something (I went with a friend on a lunch break) told me they didn’t have a microwave, so toasting was the only way they had to heat the meats that were supposed to be served hot, but I have trouble understanding why it was ever able to get far enough for a restaurant to be built on the concept.

I can’t figure out what the secret is, but I feel like somehow there’s some kind of secret Edward Bernays shenanigans going on where money is being made or saved on not serving subs on decent, humane, soft bread.

Where did this phenomenon come from? Why did this start happening, and why has it kept happening? I can’t possibly be the only person who absolutely hates toasted subs.

posted by Mister Moofoo to Food & Drink (23 answers total)

Best answer: Melty cheese in a sandwich is delicious, and helps "glue" together the contents so the whole thing doesn't fall apart. Also in some cultures cold meat and vegetables are seen as kind of weird to eat without cooking or heating (this is why our family always preferred Quiznos to Subway, at least)

It does sound like you got an over-toasted sandwich though - the bread of a good toasted sandwich should be lightly crisp on the outside, fluffy and soft and warm on the inside. I do wonder if the toasting helps mask stale bread, leading to less food waste and more cost savings...
posted by btfreek at 5:22 PM on June 21, 2023 [8 favorites]

Why did we ever not toast subs? Toasted subs rule.
posted by kevinbelt at 5:33 PM on June 21, 2023 [22 favorites]

Seconding that for most sub places "toasted" means "lightly crisped on the outside", not "hard as a rock."

I did find this Yahoo News article talking about some of the chemical and taste changes bread goes through when it's toasted.

So there ya go - plenty of folks like the taste of toasted subs over not.

(Personally whether I want a sub toasted depends on my mood, plus maybe what kind of sub I'm getting. Something like a meatball sub that's got a lot of sauce on it I prefer toasted, because it helps the subs stay together longer.)
posted by soundguy99 at 5:43 PM on June 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

Best answer: Bread that is a bit stale will taste better if it’s warmed or toasted. Shops wanted to use up their old buns with no complaints from customers. So they started toasting them.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:47 PM on June 21, 2023 [13 favorites]

Response by poster: To be clear, I like toasted bread, just not on subs.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 5:56 PM on June 21, 2023 [5 favorites]

I grew up in New England when they were called Grinders and they were always toasted. I don't know who started it but toasted is the way to go for certain subs. Like with an Italian Grinder they toast is with the meat and cheese in it and then put the cold toppings on and, when done right, it's the perfect sandwich.
posted by bondcliff at 6:34 PM on June 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

Yeah, grinders for sure. Easy to do in a salamander, so an easy add-on for hole-in-the-wall pizza joints.
posted by aramaic at 7:29 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

OK seriously. Fuck a toasted sub. I don't know where it started but I too ate Miami subs and although I liked Quiznos I hate hate toasted subs. Bizzare concept to be honest.
posted by chasles at 7:39 PM on June 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

Thus do the crispy vs. soft-baked wars begin.
posted by Rash at 9:15 PM on June 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

Chains like Quiznos and whatever the hell "Miami" subs is are bound to make you a bad or at least underwhelming, grinder or hoagie or sub at some point, but yes toasted subs rule, and I personally invite you to visit me and have a chicken parm sub ( toasted in the salamander, light on the sauce) at the place I work and then dare you to not declare it fantastic, Mr. Moofoo.

Soft bread hoagies are good also! There is a place in NH called moe's that makes one of the best and biggest, most packed subs I ever had. Nice soft bread.

We are tweaking the menu at work, adding a grilled cheese, lamb tacos, and lobster roll sliders to the menu. We are going to have fun with sandwiches.
posted by vrakatar at 9:24 PM on June 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

Personally I believe all subs should be toasted. But to answer your question I did a little googling and it looks like grinders were originally toasted and subs were not, and then Subway in 2005 started toasting it's subs and people went nuts and everyone wanted them because...well, see my first sentence.

So....market pressures?
posted by Toddles at 9:30 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

We can prove Quiznos was toasting subs back to at least 2004, though, before Subway did. Remember the Spongmonkies ads?

"We love the subs! ‘Cuz they are good to us. The Quiznos suuuuubs. They are tasty, they are crunchy, they are warm because they toast them. They got a pepper bar!"

Anyway, I’m with you on the whole toasted sub thing. Paninis are spectacular though and I breathlessly await their inevitable reemergence into the culinary spotlight.
posted by mochapickle at 10:06 PM on June 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

I learned to eat Grinders at the Elsah Landing and there were never toasted and you will call me a hay-seed from flyover fake-sandwich country but at least my salami slices have not been converted into a trypophobe's nightmare of "eating"
posted by Rat Spatula at 10:35 PM on June 21, 2023

One of the best sandwiches I ever ate was at the quiznos on High Street in Morgantown WV. It was a toasted sub with brisket. I had been drinking all night and some of the morning with some riff-raff, and quiznos opened at like 10:30 AM.
posted by oldnumberseven at 11:10 PM on June 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

Bad bread, like bad bagels, is only palatable when toasted. Chains like Subway and Quiznos serve bad bread of course, so it's natural that people prefer it toasted. And if they come from a place without a preexisting sub culture and have never had a perfect Italian sub on great bread, they don't even know what they're missing. Good I toasted sub > bad toasted sub > bad I toasted sub.
posted by umwelt at 11:20 PM on June 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

Subway in 2005 started toasting it's subs

We can prove Quiznos was toasting subs back to at least 2004

There was a cafeteria on Ohio State's campus that was toasting subs in 1999, and it didn't seem like a particularly novel concept to any of us at the time.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:20 AM on June 22, 2023

Best answer: A lurking friend suggested I post this link about the collapse of Quiznos--the capsule version is that it seems to have been a major marketing advantage in Quiznos rise that Subway, the Goliath of the industry, copied, and I imagine that made it feel necessary for the rest of the industry.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:22 AM on June 22, 2023 [3 favorites]

Best answer: In the Boston area where I grew up, every "pizza parlor" (as they tended to be called in the 70s) did at least 50% of its business in sub sandwiches. One option for an otherwise cold sandwich like an Italian sub was to have it toasted, which was accomplished by putting it into the pizza oven for a few minutes before adding the cold ingredients. All of which is to say that it's been a thing since at least the 70s. Personally I never felt it was an improvement, but YMMV.
posted by slkinsey at 7:35 AM on June 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

Because microwaved subs are soggy, sad and taste of despair
posted by scruss at 8:40 AM on June 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Yeah, scruss, microwaving a whole sub wouldn’t be a great idea.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 8:55 AM on June 22, 2023

Response by poster: I think I got about what I expected out of this question, which I cut way back from the original rant before posting. I’m calling it resolved.

I suppose thinking about a grinder as a different animal altogether might get me over the fence, but I prefer to know what I’m getting before I get it.

Thanks, everyone, for indulging my bs.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 11:20 AM on June 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

I grew up in Nj where subs were never toasted. Then I went to college in Ct, where “grinders” came with an option of being toasted. This was in 1991 era.

I suspect roasting Italian sandwiches was totally regional (New England) until the national chains picked up on it, and then it started to spread.

I’m not really a fan. If the bread is fresh, as it should be, it needs nothing of the sort.
posted by Miko at 9:00 PM on June 22, 2023

IMO they toast them so they can basically double the number of options with just a cheap toaster oven, and sometimes hot food is better than cold food, even if the bread is high quality.

Also why Quizno's rose like a rocket, but their rise was predicated on a piece of equipment any subshop could afford, so they were back to the low margin of just competing on taste, with no differentiator once every other subshop bought one.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:49 AM on June 23, 2023 [1 favorite]