Why am I getting angry at other people’s anxiety-speak?
September 12, 2021 2:48 PM   Subscribe

As it says on the tin. I’m also getting angry at other people’s trauma responses. People who tell me to go to therapy will be yeeted into the sun. Ive got one! She’s good! I’m looking for solid anecdotes and science! Then I’ll bring that stuff to the therapist. Thank you.

Examples include VERY NORMAL stuff! Like people asking “are you busy” on day x without telling you to what they want in the initial question. Intellectually I know that it’s a little anxiety-induced timidity that makes people do this but I get big rage spikes about it! Be clear I am not loading this stuff up on people I interact with, I’m kind in my communication, but this stuff is making me so angry! Another example is if someone says (on social media) that they’re desperate. I respect desperation and I help when I can, but UNEXPLAINED RAGE SPIKE! Why, rage spike?

This is not an unsolicited advice thread. I want to know why this is happening. Specifically, scientifically, why. The advice on what to do about it I’m SET for, I promise! Knowing why a thing is happening is a BIG part of how I cope with stuff! So be respect my agency and answer the question I’m asking, which is WHY.

The tone of this post is sucky, I know, but hopefully it is clear!

Thank you for reading it, even if you want to offer advice rather than why-explanation. I know it all comes from a good place.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet to Health & Fitness (41 answers total) 21 users marked this as a favorite
 
I suspect it’s because you are a person who has done work to address your anxiety so that you DON’T do these things, and your reaction is like “why don’t you understand that you don’t have to do this?? I did the work so why can’t you?”
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:54 PM on September 12, 2021 [31 favorites]


I've browsed, but not fully/deeply read, a few studies about whether there is a correlation between experiencing trauma and capacity for empathy. You might find that an interesting topic.
posted by sm1tten at 3:03 PM on September 12, 2021 [3 favorites]


When this has happened to me, I was able to pinpoint two causes:

First, I was hurt pretty badly by someone who habitually did this kind of thing. Me getting (internally) angry at seeing that was both a result of having unprocessed anger at that person, and also my brain forcing me to enforce boundaries with the new people that I should have enforced with that person: i.e., to not take responsibility for their emotions so much on myself.

Second, and related to that last, the anger comes because both of those things are a way of making somebody else manoeuvre around one's anxiety or trauma so you don't have to. This is not necessarily a bad or shameful thing, we all do it to some extent; none of us are emotionless robots and it's part of being in a community of other humans. But taken to an extreme it can be a way of implicitly saying "my emotions matter and yours don't" and you may be oversensitive to that for whatever reason. Also, we're all emotionally bankrupt right now, which means that mild versions of this that might normally not be an issue at all are pulling from your completely depleted reserves.
posted by sir jective at 3:03 PM on September 12, 2021 [19 favorites]


Not sure this meets your criteria for scientific but your premise is flawed - if I start by asking ‘are you busy on day x’ that simply means that I can’t be asked to waste both out time sharing details if you’re not available. So that would be efficiency not anxiety.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:03 PM on September 12, 2021 [30 favorites]


I am a transformational coach and when my clients are experiencing reactions that they feel are outsized for the circumstances, we spend time digging into needs and values. Specifically, there usually is an unmet need and/or a value being challenged.

For example, if someone is feeling particularly vulnerable or stressed and therefore has a greater need for clarity, others being vague or unreliable can evoke extreme reactions because that need is being unmet. Similarly, if someone values, say, self-sufficiency and others around them are displaying learned helplessness, that can be ire-inducing.

Also worth noting that anger/rage for many people can often feel safer to express than the emotions that may be underneath, such as sadness or disappointment.
posted by iamkimiam at 3:07 PM on September 12, 2021 [34 favorites]


It's manipulative?
I hate this too.
I guess it's nice of them to warn you that they're about to try to guilt trip you into something, but it feels very manipulative to me. Even if it turns out not to be the case, it sounds like a set up.
posted by BoscosMom at 3:14 PM on September 12, 2021 [4 favorites]


Building on showbiz_liz's answer...

There's something I once heard as an explanation of road rage, which I often return to because it was such a useful idea. It was the idea that when someone cuts us up in traffic, we don't get mad because it's inconvenient, or could have been dangerous, we get really mad, because it is "an existential reminder that to others, we are nothing." That guy who cut in front of you? No, he doesn't know you're in a hurry - he doesn't even know you exist. He saw a car, like all the other cars, but he literally doesn't know that you as a person exist. And that hits us somewhere deep and provokes sudden, strong emotion.

I wonder if this is somewhat similar - other people who can't deal with their own anxiety are a reminder to you that no amount of work you do on your own mind can actually control others' anxiety, or their behaviour, or anything about the world outside of you. It's an existential reminder that your power to control your surroundings, is minimal.

I also wonder if there's some kind of projection here? Like, if this happened to me:

People asking “are you busy” on day x without telling you to what they want in the initial question.

It wouldn't even occur to me that they were being anxious, I'd think they were being courteous, to ask how busy I am first. Could you just be seeing anxiety everywhere because it's so familiar to you? (Though... that example's a little ambiguous, do you mean someone at work asking what your workload is like before giving you more work, or do you mean a friend asking if you're busy on Tuesday without telling you what they want to invite you to? I mean, neither case would say anxiety to me, but the first seems considerate, the second inconsiderate).
posted by penguin pie at 3:16 PM on September 12, 2021 [17 favorites]


It's probably a combination of things. One, a rage spike at a small trigger suggests that you are already tense and "out of spoons" as some would say.

Two, frequency. I'm guessing these are pet peeves of yours even when there are no other factors. I share your dislike of people asking half a question or putting me in a place where it feels like I'm being set up not to be able to say "no" -- or what I call a "naked ping" where somebody does the "hi" in IM and waits for a response rather than just asking the friggin question.

Or, on preview as sir jective noted - this may be a pattern that has been employed by someone who's hurt you / you unconsciously are being triggered by something that led up to bad things in the past. I had a bad relationship where we had a lot of fights via text. After that anything that even smelled like an argument via text was a big NOPE.

Three, you may actually have clinical anxiety that would benefit from meds. I went through a period at the beginning of the pandemic & shortly after my father's death when I recognized I was getting angry about things that normally just annoyed me or didn't faze me. Went on Citalopram (Celexa) and after about three weeks noticed... hey, my short fuze is not so short anymore.
posted by jzb at 3:17 PM on September 12, 2021 [10 favorites]


Are you also an anxious person? Sometimes anxiety can manifest as anger, I think.
posted by pinochiette at 3:18 PM on September 12, 2021 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: To clarify, the bit about “are you busy” is in the friend context, the sort of “naked ping” stuff as described above. Thanks all! These are fantastic so far.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 3:24 PM on September 12, 2021 [2 favorites]


1. anxiety and edginess are basically the same thing, in terms of your brain. Hyper-alertness, hyper-response.

2. I don't think there's anything weird about being annoyed by the examples you mention. People here will browbeat you about lack of empathy etc etc but the fact is that the "are you busy on X" person is wasting your time and setting you up for a guilt trip by not being direct and precise with their inquiry; and the person posting on social media about feeling "desperate" is being dramatic and you don't like it. You feel guilty about not having a gracious and empathetic response to these folks, but the simple answer is that they're doing something annoying to you and the annoyance amplifies into anger because you're keyed up already. You don't need to beat yourself up.

But of course that HULK SMASH reflex is no fun for you. I suspect this has nothing to do with your thoughts or therapy and everything to do with your own brain & body tension, so my unsolicited suggestion - and this is based on personal experience - is that you try vigorous, tiring exercise early in the day and see if that helps.
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:31 PM on September 12, 2021 [5 favorites]


Irritability that presents with small provocations (or a "short temper", we might say) is itself an anxiety response. A short-circuited ability to empathize is critical protective systems consuming the available resources, leaving you unable to extend that necessary bit of grace to others.

It can be a known issue in family or social systems for one person's trauma response to trigger another's trauma response, and that can be wired to your original trauma (in lots of ways, but sometimes specifically in cases of short temper reactions it's that you may recognize their trauma response as one that did not or would not have worked for you in your situation, one that you tried and were shamed/abused for, or one you developed shame about after the fact - in any case, it can put you back in the place of your trauma or even worse put you in the perspective of your abuser), but it can also trip your alarms about being manipulated even if they're doing it to keep themself safe and it's not really about you. That flash of impatience can be about "*I* already worked through this, how come that didn't fix you?"

When I was working through this in my own therapy, really what it boiled down to was it poked a sore spot, and that spot is often sore because of either trauma or shame or both. How and why will be highly personal to you.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:42 PM on September 12, 2021 [12 favorites]


I started to write a whole thing about my specific reasons for also not liking the scenarios you give, but ultimately, fwiw -- I've found that when I have oversized reactions, like UNEXPLAINED RAGE SPIKE! vs. a more moderate "eh, that's annoying", it's usually a sign (for me) that I'm not doing so well in general. Usually stress or dissatisfaction with my own life being channeled outward, is my guess. (That, or hormones; the period of time when I was using one specific form of birth control overlapped pretty damningly with sudden rage reactions.)
posted by trig at 3:43 PM on September 12, 2021 [14 favorites]


Your question reminded me of something I recently read about compassion fatigue. This article from the Canadian Medical Association lists symptoms of compassion fatigue, and increased anger and irritability is on there.

You don't have to be a medical professional or first responder to be experiencing compassion fatigue, especially these days. I am a college instructor, and some of my students have pretty high needs at the best of times. Now that they're stressed about COVID, their anxiety is through the roof.

When my state of mind is good and I'm feeling mentally healthy, I am able to be calm and patient both outwardly AND inwardly. When I have too many stresses (and who doesn't, these days--I mean, take your pick of global stuff that's happening and then add in whatever personal things are happening for you too), like you I'm able to remain outwardly calm and patient but inside I am RAGING that they are asking me for help, or reassurance, or to take care of something for them. I'm mad that they're feeling anxious and expressing that to me because I'M ANXIOUS TOO GODDAMMIT, WHAT ABOUT ME?? My mean brain wants to know why they all have to ask me the same stupid question that I already gave them the answer to, why they can't follow directions, why they don't make better choices, why their failure to do something is now my problem. I do not like "neediness" when I am feeling anxious, on edge, and out of resources. My immediate internal reaction to it is rage. I can't handle feeling like yet another person wants something from me and I have nothing left to give them.

I never, ever voice any of that to people, but I don't like that I'm even thinking it, because I know very well why they're doing all those things and none of it is their fault. It also isn't pleasant to feel that constantly angry and irritable. But that doesn't mean I can stop my mean brain from thinking those things when I am out of compassion.

It is always a big red flag for me that I need to do some self-care, pronto. Once I feel better and have the inner resources, I am usually able to quiet the mean brain down and my ragey inner reponses go away.

Also worth noting that anger/rage for many people can often feel safer to express than the emotions that may be underneath, such as sadness or disappointment.

I think this is something worth looking at, too. I am very much not a crier and I dislike expressing sadness. Often after I am angry I realize, nope, I'm actually feeling really sad about something but I didn't want to or didn't realize I needed to express that.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 3:45 PM on September 12, 2021 [29 favorites]


Given your specific example, you might recognize what's going on in Don't Ask To Ask. That problem is not generally attributed to timidity. It's simpler: most people are lazy and really bad at asking questions, and in particular they are bad at sharing the information that will get them a quick answer. This comes up a lot in tech support, and Don't Ask To Ask is most often cited in that context, but I can imagine it applying to anyone looking for help on any subject in a way that seems obtuse or lazy. It's frustrating to be asked questions like this (if you want my help you need to do some work!), so I get where you're coming from.
posted by caek at 3:53 PM on September 12, 2021 [17 favorites]


I get upset at other people's anxiety sometimes, when it seems like their anxiety is about me - not that I've done something to merit it, but that they seem to think that I will. In my case I feel like there's an implicit request - even demand - for me to do something about it, but without me knowing what to do. That's one way I've explained it to myself.

Another explanation is that I don't like seeing it because, as a pretty anxious person myself, it hits really close to home. I'm not comfortable with my anxiety, so I'm not comfortable with other people's anxiety.

Probably all stuff I should be talking about it therapy.

Hope you find some useful answers here.
posted by bunderful at 3:56 PM on September 12, 2021 [4 favorites]


Where are you on the ask v. guess culture spectrum?

The "Are you busy?" opening is a classic guess culture maneuver.

"If you're an Ask Culture person, Guess Culture behavior can seem incomprehensible, inconsistent, and rife with passive aggression."
posted by dum spiro spero at 4:08 PM on September 12, 2021 [6 favorites]


The person I know who does this the most is extreeeeeeeeeemely passive-aggressive. Enrages me as well!

In my situation, that kinda naked ping (excellent turn of phrase) may not be passive-aggressive in and of itself. But it is all part of this package of behaviors where they can’t or won’t communicate directly with me and I’m expected to do an unfair share of intuiting and anticipating and handholding.

Yes, I feel bad they developed this way of interacting with others. But it also tests my empathy because most adults are brimming with anxiety, doubt, and decades of awful experiences, and yet we are expected not to indulge In maladaptive communication.
posted by kapers at 4:09 PM on September 12, 2021 [7 favorites]


if you have any of the loathed impulse yourself, especially if you have it but are able to conceal it, people who have it and show it off can be infuriating because perceptually, it's like they're mocking you. the way little kids will imitate your voice in the most obnoxious way possible and say, This is what YOU sound like!

lots of anxious people work very hard to convince themselves that they aren't annoying, that everybody doesn't hate them. very important to believe that to be functional. so when another anxious person appears and demonstrates that the annoyingness of anxiety is actually not all in your/our heads, that it really is fucking aggravating to be around, it can feel like a vicious attack because it sort of is one. you can know that it's not their fault or their intention but that makes no difference, it gets you at the level of your worst fears of what other people might think of you. and instead of inspiring compassion, it inspires fury because it isn't fair and it is (what anxious people hate) out of your control. it steals your ability to fool yourself about how your own anxiety comes across, and that is just the worst.

if you don't have & never did have serious anxiety, I suppose that's not it. in that case, it is probably just that people who cringe & display timidity tend to trigger the bullying instinct in anyone who has it. most people who have the bullying instinct restrain it and never hurt anyone, but it still feels shameful to have the instinct. so anyone who makes you feel like a bully against your will can seem to be doing you an injury, even when you can see they aren't doing that, really.

also lots of anxiety expresses itself in futile attempts to control the self, others, and the whole world. so if you have deep issues with people trying to control you, you will probably be more aggravated by anxious tics than the average person. even though you may know that expressively anxious people aren't trying to control your responses in any sinister way.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:09 PM on September 12, 2021 [20 favorites]


Totally recognize this feeling. Someone does something just kind of annoying that just makes me feel like nails on a chalkboard deep inside my soul. On a different day it might not have bothered me at all.

I take this as a signal that my “anxiety cup” is full. Anything I might have wanted to put in my cup overflows, causing that nails-on-a-chalkboard feeling. All sorts of things want to go in the cup so it’s not always obvious that it’s full until that feeling comes along.

The nice thing is that, for me, I can usually just take a few minutes to center myself, think about where my anxiety is coming from, and try to take a few concrete steps toward addressing those issues to free up some space in my cup. Unfortunately some issues are to big to actually do anything about (like COVID) but that’s life I guess.
posted by TurnKey at 4:13 PM on September 12, 2021 [10 favorites]


Basically, TurnKey's "anxiety cup" is the perfect metaphor that says what I was trying to say, much more succinctly!
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 4:28 PM on September 12, 2021 [2 favorites]


"Examples include VERY NORMAL stuff! Like people asking “are you busy” on day x without telling you to what they want in the initial question. "

Oooooh, this drives me bananas unless it's from very (very!) close friends (who mostly tell you what's up right off anyway). I'm Midwestern (American), and Midwesterners communicate with a lot of "escape hatches" where you can back out of a conversation/commitment, but save face by not having to either ask directly or turn someone down directly. "Are you busy on July 17?" feels indirect, because you're not asking for the thing you actually want, but it's ACTUALLY A TRAP and a major faux pas in Midwest-speak. If someone asks me "Are you busy July 17?" I have to either say, "Why?" which is rudely direct to demand before answering, or "Maybe" (rude! I'm implying I don't like you enough to agree without more information!), or "No," which is true, but then I will have to figure out a non-direct, non-rude way to back out if the thing you want is awful.

The right way to ask is, "I'm thinking of going teapot shopping on July 17 and I wondered if you might like to go," and then I can say, "YES!" or "No, my mom's in town that week, but I could go the first week of August if you don't mind waiting?" or "Oh, gosh, my July is SO INSANE, you should go without me so you don't miss the sales!"

I get really mad and frustrated about these interactions because not only are they rude in my local dialect, but they make me profoundly socially uncomfortable, and feeling socially uncomfortable is a horrible feeling that makes people angry! I flipped my shit at a local newspaper subscription drive that was predicated on using this sort of TOO INTRUSIVE ask to try to get people to subscribe -- it made me furious that their corporate overlords at Gannett had written a whole script to make it impossible for Midwesterners to exit the conversation without either being unconscionably rude (to a minimum-wage employee) or subscribing.

I'm extra-alert to these interactions because my husband is NOT Midwestern, and totally all the time asks things like, "Are you busy Thursday?" instead of, "I was thinking of going to the DMV on Thursday, will you be around to get the kids off to school or should I go next week?" (He's the morning parent.) And I feel soooooo uncomfortable saying to even my husband, "No, Thursday is bad." One time my best midwestern friend and I were carefully negotiating when we were going to get together that weekend, and I was like, "I was kind-of thinking $LocalItalianSpot on Saturday might be nice," and she was like, "Oh gosh, that would be nice, I wish I wasn't on call. Maybe Sunday?" "Sunday I have a thing with the kids at 1 but I could go earlier?" "I mean, my kids don't finish at church until 11:30 and then I have to drive back to $town, but maybe my husband and I could drive in separate cars?" "I mean, I could push back my kids' thing if that's better for you?" and my husband said, "OH MY GOD" and her husband said, "YOU'RE GOING TO LUNCH AT NOON ON SUNDAY" and we looked at them, horrified, both made a 45* turn away from them (turning our BACKS would be rude but turning 45* is just like, "Please leave this conversation, people who were clearly raised by wolves,"), and continued our conversation as if they had not interrupted. And eventually agreed we were going to lunch at noon on Sunday with some husband/kid handoffs. But like, the POINT of the conversation is not efficiency in plan-making, it's negotiating carefully with a lot of places to back out specifically so you don't corner the other person. Offering that generosity, where both parties claim their territory by disclaiming it so neither party has to say a direct no and be rude, is a crucially important friendship exchange that builds the relationship. People moving directly to the question dodge all that important relationship-building and generosity, and it's hard not to feel hurt by it or mad about it.

One of the very hardest things I had to learn as a mod here is that not everyone speaks Midwestern, and I have to be a lot more direct than I am usually comfortable being -- and how to still sound/feel polite while being direct enough to be clear. I really struggled with tone at first because I didn't know how to be polite while being direct! The things that feel like the strongest possible rebuke I can issue in my dialect -- which are clearly understood in my local community as being an absolutely nuclear response that ends relationships -- don't necessarily read as a rebuke at all to people not from here.

Anyway, "high-context" and "low-context" cultures or communication might be helpful terms for searching. (In high-context cultures, everyone shares a lot of similar background, so people can assume a lot of unspoken things -- like we call "guess" cultures here on MeFi. Whereas in low-context cultures, there's little shared assumption, so you have to be much more direct -- what we call "ask.")

Basically the only people I'm comfortable hearing "Are you busy Thursday?" from is my siblings/parents, but they all instead say, "My wife is having a C-section Thursday, are you available to watch my kids that morning?" or "I'm thinking of flying in on Thursday, what does your weekend look like? I can come next month instead!"

"The "Are you busy?" opening is a classic guess culture maneuver."
This is NOT Guess! (Or, more properly, high-context.) Guess approaches a lot more gingerly and doesn't make a direct ask until you're way, way further into the conversation. Not giving enough information doesn't make it Guess! Guess is when you make a lot of conditional or tentative statements so other people can negate you or back out while saving face, but it feels MADDENINGLY inconsistent to "Ask" people, who are much more direct and don't mind a direct no, whereas "Guess" people will avoid giving or asking for a direct no at all costs. "Are you busy?" negates face-saving by demanding a commitment right off, so definitionally cannot be Guess. (And it's really not Ask either, because it's not direct enough -- it's just passive-aggressive when done on purpose, and thoughtless when done, well, thoughtlessly.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:44 PM on September 12, 2021 [59 favorites]


Sometimes you just get so sick of a certain behavior that it becomes a hot button.

There is a certain behavior that a lot of my clients at work do that makes me effing crazy. There's no way I can get them to stop doing it, I have hundreds of them doing it, and I spend way too much time per person having to clean up their messes. At best I can talk 50% of them into not doing X, but the other 50% continue to ignore me repeatedly when I say that that if they keep doing X, they will be very unhappy and fixing X is really expensive/super time consuming during a period of time when everything is an emergency rush for them. I spend 2-4 hours of every workday dealing with X, and some days it's literally just all day, nothing but X. If people paid attention to anything I said, they wouldn't do X, but they will not. If my work had money to throw at this problem, 95% of X wouldn't be happening, but we don't. This is a constant chronic nightmare.

So I go from 0-100 rage within fifteen minutes of starting my job and reading my emails because every single day I have a lot of That Clientele writing with complaints. I am SO SICK OF HAVING THIS CONVERSATION every day and I still have hundreds of them to have to argue with and clean up. The hot button is long since installed and I just go into a rage knowing exactly how this shitty dance is going to go. Nothing can ever be done to make it less excruciating.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:53 PM on September 12, 2021 [1 favorite]


Wow, I could have written this question. The things you write about annoy me as well.

Others have written very eloquently about how this kind of response is likely linked to your own anxiety levels. In these cases, the problem is less that other people push our buttons and more that we have buttons that can be pushed, but it sure doesn't feel like that in the moment.

If some of the buttons that are are being pushed are linked to more serious trauma, the situation could be triggering dysregulation, which is a neurological response. There are many resources online that talk about this, but this one offers a simple and practical explanation of what could be going on, as well as some tips on how to deal with it.

Personally, when I feel the way you do, I have found it very useful to investigate my fears and resentments and write them down. In the examples you give, I would write "I resent X for asking me if I'm busy on Saturday because I fear either getting guilt-tripped into doing something that I want or being rude when I get out of it, and then either losing my personal relaxation time or being blamed for being mean." In the case of the person being dramatic on social media, I would write "I resent this person for broadcasting their pain because I fear that I will somehow be drained by their angst or blamed for not helping them." The frame doesn't always fit, but when it does, it gives me a lot of insight into how my own thought patterns are causing a particular reaction.
posted by rpfields at 5:05 PM on September 12, 2021 [4 favorites]


I hope this is not hijacking the thread (if it is, I’m happy to make my own Ask) but does anyone have an answer to the ‘Are you free Thursday’ conundrum when you’re most likely asked to babysit but might also be asked to go out for drinks? Is the answer “I’m busy?” How do you push back? Asking for a frustrated friend who just might be me.
posted by Jubey at 5:46 PM on September 12, 2021 [5 favorites]


A hallmark of depression is irritability. What you describe sounds like irritability.

My current tool for viewing behavior is status/ dominance, in the primate sense. I firmly believe a lot of microaggressions, and, obv. aggressions, are dominance behavior. make of this what you will.
posted by theora55 at 5:51 PM on September 12, 2021 [6 favorites]


[does anyone have an answer to the ‘Are you free Thursday’ conundrum when you’re most likely asked to babysit but might also be asked to go out for drinks?

"Possibly! Depends what time and for how long / It's going to be a busy day but I might have a window or two. What did you have in mind?"

Agreed with Eyebrows McGee that this isn't Guess. Putting someone on the spot is contrary to the spirit of Guessness.]
posted by trig at 6:06 PM on September 12, 2021 [16 favorites]


but does anyone have an answer to the ‘Are you free Thursday’ conundrum when you’re most likely asked to babysit but might also be asked to go out for drinks? Is the answer “I’m busy?” How do you push back?

"That depends on what time and what you're asking about." Pretend you're occupied during part of that night (which you might be!) and get them to spell out what they want before you commit to busy-ness.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:07 PM on September 12, 2021 [11 favorites]


I’m kind in my communication, but this stuff is making me so angry!

The longer you act fake with people, the angrier you will get as they continue not to notice that you are putting in the extra effort. No one will thank you or reward you for a kindness they don't know is happening.

Additionally, social media. Humans aren't equipped to handle the constant stream of look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me look at me... Twitter is an anger generator and even placid internet backwaters like Metafilter have an undercurrent of rage if you immerse yourself too deeply.
posted by betweenthebars at 6:19 PM on September 12, 2021 [10 favorites]


Oooooh, this drives me bananas unless it's from very (very!) close friends (who mostly tell you what's up right off anyway). I'm Midwestern (American), and Midwesterners communicate with a lot of "escape hatches" where you can back out of a conversation/commitment, but save face by not having to either ask directly or turn someone down directly.

Thank you so much for the metaphor of "building the escape hatches" because it's a thing that I think has been missing from the "Ask vs. Guess" paradigm. If you are (like I am) deeply embedded in Guess, you have to build in the escape hatches, to give the other person a space to say "no" that won't look bad. Which means that as a Guess person you have to put in a lot more cognitive work up front, which is yet another reason why Guess is tiring.
posted by Daily Alice at 6:38 PM on September 12, 2021 [9 favorites]


When I used to get this here are a couple underlying reasons why:

- It threatened my tenuous equilibrium. Like "get away from me with that sad story! Can't you see I'm barely hanging onto feeling okay! And that my okay-ness relies on not slowing down to feel any feelings!?"

- It offended my own unacknowledged need. I don't have space for your issue! I'm not even giving myself space for my own! You want me to feel bad about your cat being sick when I'm worried about [or trying to keep from worrying about] my own husband maybe being sick!? /that sort of thing

- I think "are you busy Thursday?" is intrusive and cloying and presumptive and yes, insecure. Who's to say that if I'm not I want to do something with that person? I think as an opener, it signals that this conversation is going to be a lot of work, and if I have no bandwidth for emotional work I can't handle it (see comments above about irritability being a hallmark of depression).

Generally for me, rage spikes were one or two notches away from sobbing "I can't handle this anymore!" and "I just don't know what to do!" or whatever it was. Best to you.
posted by slidell at 9:28 PM on September 12, 2021 [7 favorites]


I have two responses to a "Are you busy on X day?"

Either, a. "Yes, busy, entirely overloaded"
Or b., "Depends what it is?"

Therefore, the question never bothers me, because I figure they're just saving time from giving details for something I'm definitely not free for.
If I'm doing nothing on a given day, that doesn't mean I'm free to do the thing they're about to mention, so it doesn't bother me, because I don't think I'm obligated to do something for someone if I'm free.
If you do think you are obligated, that might be stressful.

Same with the naked ping 'Hi'.
That means, I'd like to have a real time conversation with you, if you reply, that means you're available to respond right now. I often don't get to those for hours
If you feel obligated to respond right away, that might also be irritating or stressful, because you don't think you have a choice not to reply right away.

I dunno what the rage spike about the word desperate is about. Is it that you feel desperation and do your best not to emit it to others, so you feel like someone mentioning it is maybe not being genuine or not as desperate as you have been?
Or, that using that word means others are now obligated to help them, and you probably don't have the spoons to do that, and you resent being put in this position of having an obligation you can't fulfill?


I'm spitballing here, I don't know why you are responding to these things with anger, I really don't even understand why these things are anxiety-speak. I'm wondering if you're interpreting all of these things as lead ups to "guess culture" style obligations, and you're resenting those obligations. And that's what you mean by anxiety speak?

Buuuut, if you responding like that, it's because maybe in some level you do think you're obligated by guess culture rules/obligations. And other people don't necessarily understand that (maybe because they're from a different guess culture).
In the examples above, they wouldn't bother me because I'm interpreting them as Ask culture, ie that people just using shorthand to not give me detail or bother me when I'm not free. I don't assume I'm automatically obligated, and so I'm not resentful or mad.
And if you respond that way, even when someone *was* starting passive guess style negotiations, they kind of just have to swap modes and say what they want, which is easier.
posted by Elysum at 10:50 PM on September 12, 2021 [4 favorites]


I'm more likely to fly into a rage if I feel backed into a corner. I don't get mad at "are you busy on Thursday?" because my magic answer is always, "not sure, need to check my calendar later. Why, what's up?"

And then the other person has to put in the work after all, which is satisfying.

It's harder with pleas for sympathy. Because you don't want to be an asshole about it. But maybe check into whether your own needs for sympathy are being met and if you can do something about that. Like, even superficial friendly contact can help a little, like grousing with a coworker.
posted by Omnomnom at 11:39 PM on September 12, 2021 [6 favorites]


I learned a trick a few years ago. I think it sort of addresses annoying people or people that do things that raise your hackles. Take the offensive. It is effective on the phone, but not really in person. As soon as someone calls or texts me that I do not really want to talk to, I say or text, "My battery is dying. I apologize if we get cut off." No, "I will call you back" or any promises. Then, whenever I think the conversation has gone on too long, I hang up or stop responding to the texts as if my battery did die.

Btw, if someone gives me the "Are you busy Thursday?" bit, my response is, "I don't know. I don't have my calendar with me (or some sort of vague hand wavy excuse)". That puts the ball back in their court. Now they have to disclose why they asked. Or not and walk away. The naked ping? Right back at ya. "Hi". "Hi to you too"

My pet peeve is when people don't take yes for an answer. They ask me a question, I tell them yes, I will do it, and they keep on justifying, rationalizing and explaining. I said YES!. I don't need the rest of the bs that is making you feel less guilty.

Or when you accept responsibility for something of some mistake and apologize and the other party keeps on berating you. "You're right. I screwed up. I apologize." And they keep going and trying to tell you why you are a moron. THen I say, "Tell me what you want me to do to address this. I will do it." I don't know. Do you realize you did X, Y and Z?" "Yes. Again, I apologize. How can I fix the problem to your satisfaction?" I never get an answer. Those people just want to yell at you. It irks me to no end.
posted by AugustWest at 12:01 AM on September 13, 2021 [5 favorites]


I am not a shrink, and I am definitely not your shrink. In fact, I have NO medical training at all.

Let's examine your patterns anyway.

A) You feel rage when people preface their request with a "are you busy" small talk.

Are you raging at them wasting your time? Or is "are you busy" your trigger phrase for the rage?

B) You feel rage when someone on social media claims to be desperate.

Are you raging at them for getting to that point? Or are you raging because they may just be melodramatic?

Without more data points, I am going to guess you're triggered by small talk or pretense, as that seems to be the commonality between the two examples you gave. As for WHY you are triggered such... I have no idea. You'll probably have to figure that out by yourself.
posted by kschang at 2:16 AM on September 13, 2021 [2 favorites]


Feel free to disregard this answer as it's not very scientific.

I often have less empathy and patience for people who are struggling with something that I myself have struggled with in the past. Particularly if it's something I was under pressure to "just get over", or I was taught it was a weakness of character, or I basically wasn't supported by anyone around me and was made to believe it was essentially my fault. I feel almost offended when people express or are too obvious about their difficulties with (whatever) - it stings and irritates me, it gets under my skin. I've noticed this quality in other people too. I handwavily think it's a kind of trauma response, passing on the lack of care we've felt in our lives to other people.
posted by the cat's pyjamas at 2:18 AM on September 13, 2021 [7 favorites]


I definitely experience some of the same feelings. I have a lot of pet peeves surrounding conversational patterns.

Sometimes I believe that someone is being deliberately manipulative, but usually I'm frustrated that someone has made assumptions about the way I want to communicate, or what is convenient for me, or what I prefer, or what I want, and their assumptions are wrong in a way that is really irritating. Sometimes this frustration is compounded by the perception that this person thinks that they are being polite, and that what they are doing is supposed to improve communication between us.

Sometimes I feel that they are implying something unflattering about me -- for example, that I am someone who needs to be coddled or manipulated -- but sometimes their chosen method of communication is concretely causing me some kind of inconvenience or putting me in an awkward situation.

In your "are you busy" example it's because busy is a spectrum, and it should be up to me to decide whether what I was planning to do (or not do) trumps whatever the asker is suggesting, based on a complete set of information. I do not want to commit up-front to something when I don't know what it is.

One of the most rage-inducing similar examples that I have personally experienced (multiple times!!) is the work acquaintance who wants a lift home from a function but doesn't want to put me out, so they want to figure out before asking whether it would be convenient for me to give them a lift, which is how they end up opening with "where do you live?" (seriously?!).

In the naked ping example it's because I'm a multi-tasker, and I do not want to sit staring at a messaging app waiting for someone to step through fifteen small talk steps waiting for acknowledgement in between before they actually tell me WTF they want, and if it's urgent. If I page away even for a moment, it is very likely that I will get distracted and completely forget about the conversation, so if they wait for me to respond they will wait for ever. This does not mean that I would not have been available and happy to write a long and detailed reply to an urgent question if they had actually asked it in the first place. I'm not expecting the other person to do the work of writing out a whole long-ass question if they don't know if I'm around to answer it, but they could at least briefly summarise the reason for their message!

(Having said that, I have also become irrationally annoyed at friends randomly messaging me for no reason just to chat, and I have recently realised that this is because despite my extreme onlineness I absolutely hate casual social one-on-one text conversations. With a special exception for very close friends and people I'm in love with, I just don't want to do that ever. Group chats are totally fine, because I don't feel a personal obligation to respond to every message, but a two-person chat about nothing is just torture. This doesn't happen in meatspace, where despite my introversion I very much enjoy catching up with people one-on-one.)

As for people on social media who say that they're desperate, I think that deep down inside I feel some degree of resentment when I see that because lots of people all around the world are in terrible situations which feel enormous and unsolvable. So I just constantly feel burned out on other people's need and misery. I can't help all of them, or even very many of them, so whenever I see another plea for help it just reminds me that everything is spiders and makes me feel bad. I know that's not a fair reaction to have towards any individual person seeking help, and I certainly don't think that they shouldn't do what they can to signal boost their own issue because there are people worse off in Afghanistan. I have instituted a personal rule that it's OK for me to prioritise people in need who are in my geographical area over people on the other side of the world, and I think that this boundary has helped me to reduce some of that kneejerk reaction.

I generally agree that sometimes everything just feels irritating because you're already irritated about something else, and your irritability meter is maxed out. I normally enjoy answering newbie questions online within the fields of some of my hobbies, but whenever I can feel myself fixating on how badly the questions are phrased, or how dumb someone's incorrect assumptions are, or how much a certain turn of phrase annoys me, I know that I've had enough of that kind of interaction for the day.
posted by confluency at 4:49 AM on September 13, 2021 [3 favorites]


I agree with those who have suggested you may be reacting to stuff that has caused a bad experience in the past. I have a random collection of things I'm apt to have an outsized reaction to, and almost all of them are related to people in my family background who may have been codependent, controlling and/or not completely honest.

Just for example, I come from a family where a simple task, like parking your car or returning a library book, would necessitate (in some people's minds) preparing a big complicated story about why you were parking in that particular spot or why the book was late. Similarly, it was hardly possible to communicate with people one on one. Everybody always went through another person. So now, in adulthood, I can feel someone kind of setting up a situation like that and I want to go, "Please cut to the chase and tell me what this is really about." I used to go nuts working in bookstores because half the questions customers asked were not the real question. Most of the time these people meant no harm, or at worst they were lazy, but they would ask some question that was kind of in the neighborhood of what they wanted. Like they would ask for a certain book, they would be handed that book and it would turn out they wanted other books by that same author and wanted to know where they were kept. Again, absolutely no malice and usually it seems kind of funny in hindsight but when it's going on that kind of thing pings my own insecurities and I'm worried about having to guess what this person wants.

So, I would ask if there have been situations where getting into the kinds of conversations you describe used to have negative results at a time when you had no power? Because now you can just say the things people have suggested, like, "Why, what do you need?"
posted by BibiRose at 5:55 AM on September 13, 2021 [4 favorites]


I agree with everyone who says that your irritation with this is likely more about your general mental state than about the specific question. And we're all pretty not okay right now because of, you know, everything.

But for the specific example you gave, I usually say something like, "I can check my calendar, what were you thinking of?"
posted by decathecting at 6:32 AM on September 13, 2021 [3 favorites]


but UNEXPLAINED RAGE SPIKE! Why, rage spike?
Because it's FUCKING SNEAKY! My friend just did this last week. Except she's way better at it.

This was the masterful text she sent that kicked it all off:
"Do you like pomegranates?"

She sent this, like, Thursday or something. So of course I say sure because who doesn't love pomegranates and maybe she has too many pomegranates lying around and would like me to take one or two or six. (this kind of thing happens with her a lot. She has mad agricultural connections.)

But then in further watertorture texts it transpires that after she and I and otherfriend and my longsuffering bae do yardwork for two sweltering hours yesterday, she wants us all to go to a pomegranate youpick.

And the youpick is in a neighboring town 20-minutes' drive away.

And pomegranates are a buck fitty each.

Then she says she already got buy-in from otherfriend.

Then yesterday rolls around and it transpires that she did otherfriend the exact same way she did me ("do you like pomegranates?" followed by judicious slow-release of detail) and that both of our "sure, okays" were wrung out of us before we had complete disclosure.

and THEN we have to race through yardwork and there's all this nagging about when do we leave how are we traveling because unbeknownst to anyone, she's made an appointment to pick these motherjabbing pomegranates, so we have to race and be aware of time and all sorts of shit that we normally don't have to deal with on goddamn Sunday (omg, so much resentment, even now, omg).

And then it turns out that the place is actually not in neighboring town. It's ten minutes farther down stateroadwhateverthefuck and then down a long, rutted dirt road where you gotta pull off to the side in your feeble Volvo to let earlier pom-revelers exit the youpick.

Then we pull into the otherworldly beautiful grove and pick from 18 different varieties of pomegranates and it is The Most Fun Thing Ever In History. Because this goddamn friend is always right about this stuff and you should just say yes to her if you want to have fun and eat great food. Which... just makes me more conflicted. Before we got to the place, otherfriend and I agreed between us that the next time she texts with "what would you think about [a laundrybag full of money]?" we are going to say "fuck your guess culture! HELL to the NO!" But post-experience we've agreed we're going back next year.

Meanwhile, have you considered therapy? I only ask because I believe I could benefit from being yeeted into the sun.

All my deepest love and sympathy,

Don Pepino
posted by Don Pepino at 10:51 AM on September 13, 2021 [32 favorites]


Response by poster: Don Pepino, you win today, thank you for the massive belly laugh! I’ll message when my cosmic catapult has been repaired.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 11:12 AM on September 13, 2021 [11 favorites]


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