Two Questions about Murdle Logic Puzzles

June 17, 2023 5:45 AM

I bought a book of Murdle logic puzzles. I have two questions: A) I can't for the life of me do the medium-hard ones where the lying starts. How do I logic the lying? B) My 6 yo was "helping me" (not actually for reasons inside) on the easy ones and would like some easier version of the same idea for kids. Do these kinds of logic puzzles exist for kids?

A) At the medium level each suspect makes a statement. The murderer lies and all the other suspects tell the truth. I can't for the life of me solve even one of these. Like I keep thinking I got it and then I'm wrong.

Strategies I've tried:
1. Assume each suspect in turn is lying and when the puzzle works out with no contradictions, that must be the murder. Puzzle works out with out contradiction. Check the answer. Wrong.
2. Read the suspect statements and see if they contradict either other. If two contradict each other, assume one of those must be the lie. Then try to work out which one by seeing which works with the now-assumed-true-statement. Again, It works. I finish. And then I'm wrong.

Second question:
My 6 year old asked me what I was doing so I worked though an easy one with him and he liked it and he wants to do some. The problem with the current book is
A) It's about murder, which isn't really a topic I normally hand to my 6yo.
B) The author has made a stylistic choice to use kind of arcane vocabulary which my 6yo doesn't really understand. He was able to do it because I was kind of translating the clues.
C) The clues aren't always stated directly. Like instead of saying "the person with the sceptre was not the same person as the person in the anteroom" it will say "the person with the sceptre plays in a band with the person in the anteroom" from which you're supposed to infer they're not the same person. Or instead of just saying "the sceptre wasn't in the anteroom" it will say "ancient laws prohibit sceptres in the anteroom." Again, I was translating these things for him as we went through.

So for my 6 yo I'd like this style of puzzled and with the translations was able to do the easy ones. I'd like a more kid-oriented which would think means A) lighter topic B) More clearly and directly stated clues and C) Obviously easy-only puzzles. I'm assuming this would exist only in a book created purposefully for kids. Does it exist?

posted by If only I had a penguin... to Grab Bag (12 answers total)

When they were younger (and even not so much younger!) my kids really enjoyed Logic Land... It seems like it might be kind of the same idea? It's out of print from the publisher but you might be able to pick up a copy somewhere...
posted by squibix at 6:38 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

I’m no expert at this type of puzzle and this is the first I’ve heard of Murdle, but I did today’s after seeing your question. (Fun!) A strategy that really helped me with today’s puzzle with the suspect statements, is that if two statements agree, then those statements must be true and therefore those suspects are innocent.
posted by kittydelsol at 6:52 AM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

When my kids were younger we had a bunch of these - I think the general term is logic grid puzzle, or at least it's quite similar to that? Here are a few easy / medium ones for kids. I seem to remember that there were age-appropriate collections of physical ones probably starting at ages 8-10, which should be fine after a bit of practice.
posted by true at 7:08 AM on June 17, 2023 [3 favorites]

We did this book together, a fun one for kids - The Eleventh Hour
posted by icy_latte at 7:16 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

Echoing kittydelsol in that I had never heard of Wordle, but did today's after reading your question. Assuming it was broadly representative of the genre, I'll reason the puzzle out below:
.
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In broad strokes, the strategy is the reverse of your "assume the suspect is lying" method—assume everyone is telling the truth, and if you come upon a contradiction, you can infer that the relevant suspect was lying!

As kittydelsol noted, Navy and Crimson are making the same statement—Navy was in the hedge maze—and therefore both people are truthful and innocent. We can eliminate Navy, Crimson, the hedge maze, and the counterespionage (from the "spirit writing" clue) and affair motives from our list of criminal factors. The culprit must have been either Rose or Celadon. So what do we know about each suspect?

Celadon is the only green-eyed suspect besides Crimson, so she must have wanted to escape blackmail. The fingerprint clue also ties her to the mini-golf course.

Rose was using a light-weight weapon—the oil or the poison. We know he wasn't in the hedge maze or the mini-golf course, since we've already associated other people with each location. We also know that the diploma (the only wood object), a heavy weapon, was found at the great tower—by process of elimination, he must have been in the observatory.

Now, Celadon said that Rose brought the poison—but we know from the initial clues that the poison was not found in the observatory! This creates a contradiction—and if there is a contradiction, Celadon must be the liar. We already know Celadon's motive (blackmail) and location (mini-golf), so all that's left is the weapon.

If Rose did not bring the poison, he must have brought the other light-weight weapon—the oil. And now that we know that Rose can be trusted, we can put the poison in the hedge maze along with Navy. Since the diploma is associated with the tower and not the mini-golf course, this leaves the crystal ball as the only possible option. And now, with person, place, motive and weapon firmly established, you can finally make your accusation!
posted by the tartare yolk at 7:43 AM on June 17, 2023

Yeah it's trial and error basically with the lying questions. Pick one as the liar and see if it agrees with the rest of your answers in the grid. If it doesn't, proceed forward.
posted by wellifyouinsist at 8:23 AM on June 17, 2023

There are lots of printable logic puzzles for kids online.

If you prefer a book, my kids enjoyed some of the Mind Benders from the Critical Thinking Co.
posted by belladonna at 10:04 AM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

One other point about today's puzzle (in the abstract) is that there are two people, one of whom is lying, making a logical connection. When A says 'the murderer used a lead pipe' and B says 'the lead pipe was in the conservatory' then we don't know which one is true and which is lying, but we do know that the lead pipe was not in the conservatory (because either the murder was in the conservatory with a different weapon, or was with the pipe but elsewhere).
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 11:33 AM on June 17, 2023

I've gone down an internet rabbit hole. What a fun activity. I found these ones online that have mostly innocuous themes.
posted by ellerhodes at 12:28 PM on June 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

I used to do these all the time on the Puzzle Baron website. They let you choose the difficulty level and there is no murder (though there also isn't really a story, just things to categorize and clues to do it).
posted by gideonfrog at 6:21 PM on June 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

Seconding Logic Land for your kid (still available on Amazon).
posted by Kriesa at 7:07 PM on June 17, 2023

I've been playing an all-visual version of these puzzles for years. No story, just logic and proximity. Read through the instructions to see how they define the pictures in relation to each other. Multiple degrees of difficulty.
posted by CathyG at 10:00 PM on June 17, 2023