Meth and Fentanyl Exposure
March 9, 2023 2:43 PM Subscribe
Any unbiased sources about the real danger of inhabiting or working in a space that has formerly been exposed to meth and/or fentanyl use?
I am seeing increased media coverage of reporting that a building has to be completely retrofitted if people have used meth or fentanyl in it, exposing floors and walls etc. But I've never seen any research that backed this up. I've worked in buildings and with clients since 2008 that fit this description and its never been an issue.
My gut reaction is that this is Fox fear mongering, but I'd like to know what the reality truly is. Not talking about second hand smoke- talking about entering a unit that formerly had a tenant that used meth and fentanyl.
I am seeing increased media coverage of reporting that a building has to be completely retrofitted if people have used meth or fentanyl in it, exposing floors and walls etc. But I've never seen any research that backed this up. I've worked in buildings and with clients since 2008 that fit this description and its never been an issue.
My gut reaction is that this is Fox fear mongering, but I'd like to know what the reality truly is. Not talking about second hand smoke- talking about entering a unit that formerly had a tenant that used meth and fentanyl.
Response by poster: Ok thanks. I guess there's more of a push for this to get traction after the cop panic fizzled. FYI I'm in Seattle where's this is a hot button culture war issue promoted by Fox subsidiaries. Those links are excellent!
posted by kittensofthenight at 3:19 PM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by kittensofthenight at 3:19 PM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
Many states publish guidlines for cleaning houses used for meth production, like this one.
It's not nothing to clean up, but it's not some wildly exotic process. Many of the problems that go along side 'meth production' are inseparable from 'neglecting all maintenance of a house' and 'engaging in home renovation projects while on meth.'
posted by furnace.heart at 3:30 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's not nothing to clean up, but it's not some wildly exotic process. Many of the problems that go along side 'meth production' are inseparable from 'neglecting all maintenance of a house' and 'engaging in home renovation projects while on meth.'
posted by furnace.heart at 3:30 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
If getting fent on your skin did even a hundredth of what the current moral panic claims, every paramedic in this country would be dead.
posted by Ardnamurchan at 3:32 PM on March 9, 2023 [24 favorites]
posted by Ardnamurchan at 3:32 PM on March 9, 2023 [24 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh I'd definitely be dead!
posted by kittensofthenight at 3:55 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by kittensofthenight at 3:55 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Is this cooking meth, or only using it? I do understand some people who use meth progress to cooking but it's not a given. If cooking was a concern, this article seems like a pretty good roundup of the sorts of contamination resulting from different methods (one does seem to involve a mercury compound, which, yes, might be a "tear out the drywall and flooring" situation, but it's uncommon, at least in Australia).
But I think simply using meth in a space is unlikely to contaminate it with anything other than, well, meth itself. And, like fentanyl, there's nothing magically toxic or addictive about trace amounts of amphetamines on a surface, though you'd certainly want to clean it, especially if there are pets or children around. I mean, people intentionally ingest much larger quantities both illegally and by prescription.
posted by pullayup at 7:27 PM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
But I think simply using meth in a space is unlikely to contaminate it with anything other than, well, meth itself. And, like fentanyl, there's nothing magically toxic or addictive about trace amounts of amphetamines on a surface, though you'd certainly want to clean it, especially if there are pets or children around. I mean, people intentionally ingest much larger quantities both illegally and by prescription.
posted by pullayup at 7:27 PM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
A post on the blue with discussion that might be useful
posted by polecat at 2:21 PM on March 10, 2023
posted by polecat at 2:21 PM on March 10, 2023
A post on the blue with discussion that might be useful
This is a truly interesting article but it's fairly credulous about the dangers of meth/meth cooking residue, which I interpret as another downstream effect of "drugs and everything about drugs are terrible poisons" War on Drugs messaging. It's also kind of bad science journalism, which is common. Let's unpack one sentence:
"residuals can go completely unnoticed but can lead to toxic chemicals — like red phosphorous, ephedrine, hydrochloric or muriatic acid, and sodium hydroxide — finding their way into the walls, furniture, and appliances"
Red phosphorous: Not, in fact, generally considered toxic unless contaminated with white phosphorus. It's the stuff that makes match heads red. Don't eat match heads, and don't put them in your coffee. But they're fine to have in your house.
Ephedrine: Ok, this one can actually be dangerous, but we're talking about a potentially dangerous pharmaceutical/natural compound, and the danger is like "people have adverse drug reactions when ingesting it intentionally," including stroke and heart attack, especially if predisposed. I don't want to minimise the fact that it can be bad for you, but it's a drug, not something like lead or mercury or asbestos that is an insidious toxin or carinogen when present in trace amounts in your house. I believe it's still given to patients during surgery (it constricts capillaries, reducing bleeding), and it's the active ingredient in Mormon tea, Ephedra viridis, which gave ephedrine its name.
Hydrochloric acid: This is the stuff in your stomach. Are you contaminating the floor with a toxic chemical when you puke on it? Again, not necessarily safe, especially in higher concentrations, but it's sold at the hardware store for various purposes, like etching concrete, removing rust, or cleaning grout haze off of tile.
Muriatic acid: Chemically the same as hydrochloric acid, though it's possible it's colloquially used to refer to weaker solutions of hydrochloric acid in water. Did the author just copy and paste a list the police provided? Maybe!
Sodium hydroxide: Lye. Used as a drain cleaner, and also available at the hardware store (Red Devil). I have a bottle of food grade sodium hydroxide that I use to make a solution for dipping pretzels before I bake them. Lye is what makes pretzels brown. Sure, don't get concentrated lye in your eyes.
posted by pullayup at 5:02 PM on March 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is a truly interesting article but it's fairly credulous about the dangers of meth/meth cooking residue, which I interpret as another downstream effect of "drugs and everything about drugs are terrible poisons" War on Drugs messaging. It's also kind of bad science journalism, which is common. Let's unpack one sentence:
"residuals can go completely unnoticed but can lead to toxic chemicals — like red phosphorous, ephedrine, hydrochloric or muriatic acid, and sodium hydroxide — finding their way into the walls, furniture, and appliances"
Red phosphorous: Not, in fact, generally considered toxic unless contaminated with white phosphorus. It's the stuff that makes match heads red. Don't eat match heads, and don't put them in your coffee. But they're fine to have in your house.
Ephedrine: Ok, this one can actually be dangerous, but we're talking about a potentially dangerous pharmaceutical/natural compound, and the danger is like "people have adverse drug reactions when ingesting it intentionally," including stroke and heart attack, especially if predisposed. I don't want to minimise the fact that it can be bad for you, but it's a drug, not something like lead or mercury or asbestos that is an insidious toxin or carinogen when present in trace amounts in your house. I believe it's still given to patients during surgery (it constricts capillaries, reducing bleeding), and it's the active ingredient in Mormon tea, Ephedra viridis, which gave ephedrine its name.
Hydrochloric acid: This is the stuff in your stomach. Are you contaminating the floor with a toxic chemical when you puke on it? Again, not necessarily safe, especially in higher concentrations, but it's sold at the hardware store for various purposes, like etching concrete, removing rust, or cleaning grout haze off of tile.
Muriatic acid: Chemically the same as hydrochloric acid, though it's possible it's colloquially used to refer to weaker solutions of hydrochloric acid in water. Did the author just copy and paste a list the police provided? Maybe!
Sodium hydroxide: Lye. Used as a drain cleaner, and also available at the hardware store (Red Devil). I have a bottle of food grade sodium hydroxide that I use to make a solution for dipping pretzels before I bake them. Lye is what makes pretzels brown. Sure, don't get concentrated lye in your eyes.
posted by pullayup at 5:02 PM on March 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
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