At-Will Employer Pressuring "Employment Agreement" as a contract?
March 9, 2023 9:58 AM Subscribe
Every March at my job they tell us we are getting "employment agreements" to sign for the coming year, and more than ever before they're pressuring us to commit to the duration of the year even though we're an at-will state/employer.
We've been told verbally and in writing that before contracts are "due" at the end of March, we need to either
1) Tell the employer if we're even THINKING about leaving in the coming year, so the employer can potentially post the job for hiring someone else.
2) After the contract is signed, the understanding is we are staying and not even CONSIDERING another job for the year
3) If the agreement isn't signed by a certain deadline, they can post your job description immediately for re-hiring
This is completely unethical, threatening, and misleading, right? Literally the email we got to let us know our paper contracts were ready said, "when you sign and return an employment agreement, this means you will not seek employment elsewhere for the 2023-2024 academic year. Do not sign if you cannot commit for the coming year."
And yet the employment agreement clearly states, "The position you are being offered, like all other faculty and staff at the School, is one of "at will" employment. This means that you or the School can terminate this employment relationship at any time, for any reason or for no reason at all."
Is this just... the way it is? Can I question/challenge it? I am always considering other employment opportunities... and I've never worked somewhere that makes this such a big deal. I would be scared to death to tell them I'm "thinking" about other opportunities, have them not work out, and someone else has already been hired to replace me.
We've been told verbally and in writing that before contracts are "due" at the end of March, we need to either
1) Tell the employer if we're even THINKING about leaving in the coming year, so the employer can potentially post the job for hiring someone else.
2) After the contract is signed, the understanding is we are staying and not even CONSIDERING another job for the year
3) If the agreement isn't signed by a certain deadline, they can post your job description immediately for re-hiring
This is completely unethical, threatening, and misleading, right? Literally the email we got to let us know our paper contracts were ready said, "when you sign and return an employment agreement, this means you will not seek employment elsewhere for the 2023-2024 academic year. Do not sign if you cannot commit for the coming year."
And yet the employment agreement clearly states, "The position you are being offered, like all other faculty and staff at the School, is one of "at will" employment. This means that you or the School can terminate this employment relationship at any time, for any reason or for no reason at all."
Is this just... the way it is? Can I question/challenge it? I am always considering other employment opportunities... and I've never worked somewhere that makes this such a big deal. I would be scared to death to tell them I'm "thinking" about other opportunities, have them not work out, and someone else has already been hired to replace me.
What's the consequence for signing the document and then quitting anyway?
If the answer is "nothing, but they will be angry" then I say just sign it and ignore it. It doesn't sound like a legally binding contract and you shouldn't treat it as such. I am also not a lawyer.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:33 AM on March 9, 2023 [13 favorites]
If the answer is "nothing, but they will be angry" then I say just sign it and ignore it. It doesn't sound like a legally binding contract and you shouldn't treat it as such. I am also not a lawyer.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:33 AM on March 9, 2023 [13 favorites]
I wouldn't give this a second thought. It's not really a contract, because there's no exchange of value - you agree to something and they explicitly state that they give you nothing in return. Sign it, take the job, and if you want to quit, tell them and leave. I'd be surprised if it had any legal weight, and even more surprised if they did anything if you quit.
It's a piece of paper designed to edge you into putting their interests above your own, some bureaucrat's idea of cleverness. It's stupid. You wouldn't ordinarily tell your employer you were looking around, and this won't make you.
My employer does this for forms - he downloads stuff off the net, puts the company name on it, and pretends it's official. It has no legal weight and has at least once been so wrong that it would have been catastrophic if it came up in court. Apparently judges take a dim view of people playing at being lawyers.
Sign, take their money. If you get a better job phone in sick until they fire you.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 10:34 AM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's a piece of paper designed to edge you into putting their interests above your own, some bureaucrat's idea of cleverness. It's stupid. You wouldn't ordinarily tell your employer you were looking around, and this won't make you.
My employer does this for forms - he downloads stuff off the net, puts the company name on it, and pretends it's official. It has no legal weight and has at least once been so wrong that it would have been catastrophic if it came up in court. Apparently judges take a dim view of people playing at being lawyers.
Sign, take their money. If you get a better job phone in sick until they fire you.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 10:34 AM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
The classic scam would be to tell you you're signing something innocuous, and then get you to sign something binding and restrictive. This is the opposite: they are telling everyone the contract is binding, but the actual contract language is innocuous. Either way they are hoping people don't read or don't understand the fine print, whis is unethical.
posted by Ausamor at 10:35 AM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Ausamor at 10:35 AM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
Does the employment agreement have anything about the "you will not seek employment elsewhere" expectation? It's usual that the agreement you sign contains the whole of the agreement between you and your employer. The emails may have no weight at all
posted by scruss at 10:39 AM on March 9, 2023
posted by scruss at 10:39 AM on March 9, 2023
And yet the employment agreement clearly states, "The position you are being offered, like all other faculty and staff at the School, is one of "at will" employment. This means that you or the School can terminate this employment relationship at any time, for any reason or for no reason at all."
That language is in the agreement they're pressuring you to sign, yes? So those are the terms of any contract that could be established by signing that agreement. If the agreement you're signing doesn't itself include all the crap about not even thinking about finding a new job for 12 months then none of that is part of what you're agreeing to, so in your shoes I'd ignore it, sign their stupid agreement, and then proceed to be employed at will just like I always was.
And if I did find a new job then I'd quit the one that has all this bullshit paperwork with zero notice, but that's because I'm petty and unprofessional.
posted by flabdablet at 10:41 AM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
That language is in the agreement they're pressuring you to sign, yes? So those are the terms of any contract that could be established by signing that agreement. If the agreement you're signing doesn't itself include all the crap about not even thinking about finding a new job for 12 months then none of that is part of what you're agreeing to, so in your shoes I'd ignore it, sign their stupid agreement, and then proceed to be employed at will just like I always was.
And if I did find a new job then I'd quit the one that has all this bullshit paperwork with zero notice, but that's because I'm petty and unprofessional.
posted by flabdablet at 10:41 AM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
I would be scared to death to tell them I'm "thinking" about other opportunities
Considering that (a) they would be better off for knowing who amongst their staff is doing just that and (b) they've deliberately set things up in such a way as to try to make everybody just as scared to tell them as you are, they've completely shot themselves in the foot here.
Don't let their shortsighted stupidity cost you any sleep. They don't want to be told? Do whatever the fuck you want and just don't tell them.
posted by flabdablet at 10:45 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
Considering that (a) they would be better off for knowing who amongst their staff is doing just that and (b) they've deliberately set things up in such a way as to try to make everybody just as scared to tell them as you are, they've completely shot themselves in the foot here.
Don't let their shortsighted stupidity cost you any sleep. They don't want to be told? Do whatever the fuck you want and just don't tell them.
posted by flabdablet at 10:45 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
As others have covered, this is definitely crappy, but probably doesn't have any sort of binding force, and as such is probably not illegal. It's the sort of thing that petty, insecure managers do, and as such you probably won't have much success pushing back on it unless you have significant seniority, trust and/or authority in the organization.
For something that isn't really binding like this, my attitude would be "You have made it very clear that telling you that I'm not planning to leave is a condition of continued employee, so I will happily agree to not tell you when I'm planning to leave."
posted by firechicago at 10:46 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
For something that isn't really binding like this, my attitude would be "You have made it very clear that telling you that I'm not planning to leave is a condition of continued employee, so I will happily agree to not tell you when I'm planning to leave."
posted by firechicago at 10:46 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is how academia works. It's so hard to hire mid-school year, so from an admin point of view they only want people who will stick out the year. That's why we sign yearly contracts instead of just one employment contract when we are hired. Most people say nothing until they are on the way out the door, but that has it's risks too.
In my state (Texas), by law if you resign less than 45 days from the start of the school year, the school board can refuse to release you from your contract. You can still leave, of course, but your teaching certificate is suspended for one year so you can't go on to another teaching job.
Here's the Texas law, see the "Resigning while on contract" section.
Schools are scrambling to get and keep teachers these days. There was a time when they would let you go without a fight, but that is no longer true.
Check your local education laws before you take any of the above advice, because academia works differently depending on where you are located. This IS legal and IS enforceable, at least where I am.
posted by rakaidan at 10:47 AM on March 9, 2023 [10 favorites]
In my state (Texas), by law if you resign less than 45 days from the start of the school year, the school board can refuse to release you from your contract. You can still leave, of course, but your teaching certificate is suspended for one year so you can't go on to another teaching job.
Here's the Texas law, see the "Resigning while on contract" section.
Schools are scrambling to get and keep teachers these days. There was a time when they would let you go without a fight, but that is no longer true.
Check your local education laws before you take any of the above advice, because academia works differently depending on where you are located. This IS legal and IS enforceable, at least where I am.
posted by rakaidan at 10:47 AM on March 9, 2023 [10 favorites]
From your description, it doesn't sound like the document assigns you any liability if you leave mid year. So it's not really a contract, but more like a "loyalty pledge". It doesn't assign them any other requirement than normally employing you as usual. I would sign it but not feel particularly restricted in any way.
You should absolutely not tell them (or any other employer) when you are considering leaving. The first indication they would have that you want to leave - would be your resignation letter.
Also, teaching is not a easily filled job and your employer cannot easily replace you mid-year anyway. Teaching requires a decent education level (if not a professional certification) and pays poorly considering the time requirements and responsibilities. Schools don't want to figure out how to deal with substitute teachers, transferring over lesson plans, and the questions from parents.
My friend is an elementary school teacher and tells me all sorts of stories about their legal nonsense.
posted by meowzilla at 10:48 AM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
You should absolutely not tell them (or any other employer) when you are considering leaving. The first indication they would have that you want to leave - would be your resignation letter.
Also, teaching is not a easily filled job and your employer cannot easily replace you mid-year anyway. Teaching requires a decent education level (if not a professional certification) and pays poorly considering the time requirements and responsibilities. Schools don't want to figure out how to deal with substitute teachers, transferring over lesson plans, and the questions from parents.
My friend is an elementary school teacher and tells me all sorts of stories about their legal nonsense.
posted by meowzilla at 10:48 AM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
If they could legally compel you to do this, it'd be in your real contract, not some bullshit sidecar. They can't, so they tack on the sidecar in the hopes that at least some people who are thinking of leaving will be confused or intimidated. I would think of it as a reminder that your employers aren't your friends, and when push comes to shove you don't owe them anything except a momentary glimpse of your ass going out the door for the last time.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:17 AM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:17 AM on March 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is a perfect question for Ask a Manager.
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:25 AM on March 9, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:25 AM on March 9, 2023 [6 favorites]
rakaidan’s advice would be correct presuming you have a contract. (And based on the link, public school teachers in TX have to be in contracts; obviously laws can vary greatly between jurisdictions.) But a contract, by law, cannot be one-sided. Each side has to get something out of it. The link even notes that the contract has to outline reasons for termination—meaning that it recognizes that at-will employment is not the same thing as being under contract.
“You are at-will” is an employer’s explicit statement that you are not under contract. The “contract,” despite their email rhetoric, is not a contract because it does not give you anything of value if you can be fired at any time for no reason, despite signing it.
Unethical? Probably. Illegal? Almost certainly not.
posted by tubedogg at 11:48 AM on March 9, 2023
“You are at-will” is an employer’s explicit statement that you are not under contract. The “contract,” despite their email rhetoric, is not a contract because it does not give you anything of value if you can be fired at any time for no reason, despite signing it.
Unethical? Probably. Illegal? Almost certainly not.
posted by tubedogg at 11:48 AM on March 9, 2023
I don't think I could resist replying all to ask, "you say this is a one year contract but the form I got says it's at-will and either party can terminate the relationship at any time. Can you please clarify? We'll need the corrected contracts to sign, if there was supposed to be a change in the employment away from at will."
Sometimes I get in trouble for being a smartass but I would consider it a service to point out to my colleagues that the contract doesn't match the yelling.
posted by Lady Li at 11:50 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sometimes I get in trouble for being a smartass but I would consider it a service to point out to my colleagues that the contract doesn't match the yelling.
posted by Lady Li at 11:50 AM on March 9, 2023 [3 favorites]
Absent being my particular variety of "just asking questions", though, you can always sign and then say you didn't intend to quit at time of signing but your personal situation changed, a job "just fell into your lap that you couldn't turn down" later on, etc.
posted by Lady Li at 11:52 AM on March 9, 2023
posted by Lady Li at 11:52 AM on March 9, 2023
I've been pondering more about that last part:
If the agreement isn't signed by a certain deadline, they can post your job description immediately for re-hiring
And I wonder if the local labor board would be interested in hearing about this. Could it border on constructive dismissal? They're putting you under stress that you will be let go at some random point in the near future because you refused to sign a non-legal document that has no relationship to your work?
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:14 PM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
If the agreement isn't signed by a certain deadline, they can post your job description immediately for re-hiring
And I wonder if the local labor board would be interested in hearing about this. Could it border on constructive dismissal? They're putting you under stress that you will be let go at some random point in the near future because you refused to sign a non-legal document that has no relationship to your work?
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:14 PM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is a good question for an employment attorney in your jurisdiction with experience with academia. No one here can give you really good advice without knowing more facts and having seen the document they are asking you to sign.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 12:15 PM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 12:15 PM on March 9, 2023 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Two things:
1 - Talk to an employment lawyer in your jurisdiction about this, not AskMe.
2 - Please ignore everyone in this thread that says this isn't a legal contract simply because you can still quit mid-year.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 1:51 PM on March 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
1 - Talk to an employment lawyer in your jurisdiction about this, not AskMe.
2 - Please ignore everyone in this thread that says this isn't a legal contract simply because you can still quit mid-year.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 1:51 PM on March 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
Ignore what they tell you verbally. Get some reputable advice about the actual wording of the thing they want you to sign, preferably from someone who understands the law in your jurisdiction. If you are in a union, then this is the kind of thing they can usually help you with.
posted by plonkee at 2:12 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 2:12 PM on March 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm not a lawyer but I'm in law school and I would definitely suggest consulting a lawyer or some such individual, because what counts as a contract depends a lot on what the document actually says and what the specific details of your personal circumstances are. You probably want someone who knows about the rules in your jurisdiction to take a look and give you an expert opinion.
posted by Whale Oil at 7:24 PM on March 9, 2023
posted by Whale Oil at 7:24 PM on March 9, 2023
Response by poster: Update: Actually one of my best friends is a lawyer and an HR professional in this area, and I even got Alison Green from Ask A Manager to respond to my email to her! They both said yes this is dumb and typical in the world of education but the employment agreement letter to sign indicating it's at will employment on both sides is the key and I can feel comfortable signing it and going about doing whatever I'm going to do anyway.
posted by wannabecounselor at 6:48 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by wannabecounselor at 6:48 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
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