Renovate or Walk Away or. . . is there anything else?
March 7, 2023 2:32 PM Subscribe
My 1950 bungalow is in need of major, major repairs. Like, everything. I am in the middle of taking out a mortgage to pay for it all and I'm stressed as can be. Help me figure out my options here?
I bought my house on the Oregon coast in 2019 for $230,000 cash. It is a 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath 1950 bungalow, about 1600 square feet. I knew there were some issues with the house going in - for one thing, all the appliances were about thirty years old or older - but the home inspection assured me the foundation was okay and the roof had at least five years left on it. Hahahah.
According to Zillow, the house is now worth around $350,000, which frankly seems a little high. I suspect that it is as high as this house will ever go, since the neighborhood is not great (mostly apartments and rentals,) there are no views, etc. This is not one of your elegant stately Victorian homes overlooking the Columbia river. I like it, though, and I like my borderline sketchy neighborhood complete with stray cats and semi feral free range children.
Last month we found out that the foundation needs to be completely redone and the house jacked up to keep it from literally falling down. I have estimates from two companies: one from a local, well regarded company is for $52,000 and the other, from a much larger company is for $60,000. The lower one does not include the structural engineering survey, the higher one does but we are going with local company for Reasons. I went to the credit union and got approved for a $150,000 mortgage which would pay off the $22,000 HELOC as well as covering the foundation and - maybe? Hopefully? - all the other things that are wrong. After the HELOC and the (very high) closing costs, I would walk with about $110,000.
This is the list of things that are wrong that I know about.
The foundation - $52,000
The structural engineering survey - I don't have a quote yet but let's say $8000
A complete reguttering (both foundation companies stressed this) - $3500
A new electrical box and some modernized wiring - this was something I meant to address in 2019 but haven't gotten to yet, it can no longer wait - $6000
A new roof. I just found out about this from the second gutter company yesterday. I have no idea how much it costs for a new roof in 2023. $15,000?
A new furnace, see above. ??? It's gas. I have no idea what it would cost to replace with a new gas furnace or to install a heat pump. Let's say $10,000.
A new refrigerator, because the one we have is 21 years old and sputtering. There are too many people living in my house and we need a giant fridge. $2000
OK! That's $96,500. That leaves only $13,500 for everything else including - ominous organ music:
The Plumbing Issue. The city says that the main house drain is broken at the city sewer, which is in the center of the street. They say that my across the street neighbor's sewer line is broken as well. They say this is why the street is sinking and it is all our fault and we need to repair it, which will include tearing up and replacing a portion of the street. The foundation companies both noted that the street is indeed sinking but pointed out that it is sinking all the way down the street, not just at our corner. They said this was a city issue, but also that the city is notorious for not doing anything in these cases. I have been trying to find a contractor who is willing to approach this issue and even give me a quote since 2020 but nobody will touch it. My neighbor keeps saying he has someone who will do it and then they fade, or he's making it up, which is entirely possible. I think this is eventually going to involve Lawyer$$ as well as Contractor$$ and we could be looking at almost as much as the foundation. But I do not know because nobody, and I do mean nobody, will give me a quote.
OK. Let's make this even worse: this is a household of six people - me, my two adult children, their SOs and a toddler. They are all flat busted broke. Most of them are now working but there's no extra money here. I have been hoping against hope that in a year or so at least some of them would be enough on their feet to move out, but I'm honestly not holding my breath. And, the housing crisis has hit this area hard. There is very little for rent or sale in my zip code. Like basically nothing. I have colleagues who are looking at leaving their jobs and moving out of state for this reason. It's insane around here. And I am not rich: I make about $60K a year with no guarantees that will continue forever. Also, I'm 59.
I feel like I only have two options, first, take out the mortgage, do all the repairs and pray. That leaves me probably underwater on the house, but the pluses include I get to keep my house, I know it's been repaired, I don't have to move and, um, that would be it. However, we still end up with 6 arguing people in a small house.
The only other option I can see is to try to sell my house with full disclosures for what I paid for it. However, given all the issues, it seems unlikely that anyone would buy it. And even if someone did, then I would be houseless and trying to buy in the area for approximately $350,000, which would get me, on a good day,. . . pretty much my house without knowing that repairs had been done. If there was even anything for sale at that amount, which, at the moment there is not. If I'm going to move, I need a bigger house for all these people.
And then, I could not buy another house until this one has sold. I do not have enough money to rent somewhere for all of us, even if there was anything for rent, which there is not. Meanwhile, the foundation damage would be getting worse and the house might collapse. That would not be good.
Help. What's the best course of action? Are there options am I not seeing? I do not want anyone in this family to end up homeless. I don't think burning it down is realistic - I am not really that kind of person, much as I sometimes aspire to be - but maybe a lightning strike is the only other option. I don't even know if tearing it down and replacing it with. . something else? is even possible. It probably isn't for $110,000.
Am I stressed? You have no idea. I am so stressed that I have gone beyond stress and into some kind of weirdly peaceful, cheerful state of calm that is entirely unlike me. I mean, what else can happen now? Don't answer that. Please answer this: is there another option? And what is it? And if not, which of the two bad ones is the best?
I bought my house on the Oregon coast in 2019 for $230,000 cash. It is a 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath 1950 bungalow, about 1600 square feet. I knew there were some issues with the house going in - for one thing, all the appliances were about thirty years old or older - but the home inspection assured me the foundation was okay and the roof had at least five years left on it. Hahahah.
According to Zillow, the house is now worth around $350,000, which frankly seems a little high. I suspect that it is as high as this house will ever go, since the neighborhood is not great (mostly apartments and rentals,) there are no views, etc. This is not one of your elegant stately Victorian homes overlooking the Columbia river. I like it, though, and I like my borderline sketchy neighborhood complete with stray cats and semi feral free range children.
Last month we found out that the foundation needs to be completely redone and the house jacked up to keep it from literally falling down. I have estimates from two companies: one from a local, well regarded company is for $52,000 and the other, from a much larger company is for $60,000. The lower one does not include the structural engineering survey, the higher one does but we are going with local company for Reasons. I went to the credit union and got approved for a $150,000 mortgage which would pay off the $22,000 HELOC as well as covering the foundation and - maybe? Hopefully? - all the other things that are wrong. After the HELOC and the (very high) closing costs, I would walk with about $110,000.
This is the list of things that are wrong that I know about.
The foundation - $52,000
The structural engineering survey - I don't have a quote yet but let's say $8000
A complete reguttering (both foundation companies stressed this) - $3500
A new electrical box and some modernized wiring - this was something I meant to address in 2019 but haven't gotten to yet, it can no longer wait - $6000
A new roof. I just found out about this from the second gutter company yesterday. I have no idea how much it costs for a new roof in 2023. $15,000?
A new furnace, see above. ??? It's gas. I have no idea what it would cost to replace with a new gas furnace or to install a heat pump. Let's say $10,000.
A new refrigerator, because the one we have is 21 years old and sputtering. There are too many people living in my house and we need a giant fridge. $2000
OK! That's $96,500. That leaves only $13,500 for everything else including - ominous organ music:
The Plumbing Issue. The city says that the main house drain is broken at the city sewer, which is in the center of the street. They say that my across the street neighbor's sewer line is broken as well. They say this is why the street is sinking and it is all our fault and we need to repair it, which will include tearing up and replacing a portion of the street. The foundation companies both noted that the street is indeed sinking but pointed out that it is sinking all the way down the street, not just at our corner. They said this was a city issue, but also that the city is notorious for not doing anything in these cases. I have been trying to find a contractor who is willing to approach this issue and even give me a quote since 2020 but nobody will touch it. My neighbor keeps saying he has someone who will do it and then they fade, or he's making it up, which is entirely possible. I think this is eventually going to involve Lawyer$$ as well as Contractor$$ and we could be looking at almost as much as the foundation. But I do not know because nobody, and I do mean nobody, will give me a quote.
OK. Let's make this even worse: this is a household of six people - me, my two adult children, their SOs and a toddler. They are all flat busted broke. Most of them are now working but there's no extra money here. I have been hoping against hope that in a year or so at least some of them would be enough on their feet to move out, but I'm honestly not holding my breath. And, the housing crisis has hit this area hard. There is very little for rent or sale in my zip code. Like basically nothing. I have colleagues who are looking at leaving their jobs and moving out of state for this reason. It's insane around here. And I am not rich: I make about $60K a year with no guarantees that will continue forever. Also, I'm 59.
I feel like I only have two options, first, take out the mortgage, do all the repairs and pray. That leaves me probably underwater on the house, but the pluses include I get to keep my house, I know it's been repaired, I don't have to move and, um, that would be it. However, we still end up with 6 arguing people in a small house.
The only other option I can see is to try to sell my house with full disclosures for what I paid for it. However, given all the issues, it seems unlikely that anyone would buy it. And even if someone did, then I would be houseless and trying to buy in the area for approximately $350,000, which would get me, on a good day,. . . pretty much my house without knowing that repairs had been done. If there was even anything for sale at that amount, which, at the moment there is not. If I'm going to move, I need a bigger house for all these people.
And then, I could not buy another house until this one has sold. I do not have enough money to rent somewhere for all of us, even if there was anything for rent, which there is not. Meanwhile, the foundation damage would be getting worse and the house might collapse. That would not be good.
Help. What's the best course of action? Are there options am I not seeing? I do not want anyone in this family to end up homeless. I don't think burning it down is realistic - I am not really that kind of person, much as I sometimes aspire to be - but maybe a lightning strike is the only other option. I don't even know if tearing it down and replacing it with. . something else? is even possible. It probably isn't for $110,000.
Am I stressed? You have no idea. I am so stressed that I have gone beyond stress and into some kind of weirdly peaceful, cheerful state of calm that is entirely unlike me. I mean, what else can happen now? Don't answer that. Please answer this: is there another option? And what is it? And if not, which of the two bad ones is the best?
Not to add to your stress but you will also have to move out while the foundation is being rebuilt. I don’t know what the timeframe for that would be but plan on it taking longer than you would like. Did the foundation contractor talk to you about house prep for that kind of work?
The issue with the street seems quite problematic. Are they saying that your sewer and your neighbor’s sewer is essentially not connected?
Did you have a home inspection at the time you bought? Do you have reason to believe that you were not informed of the issues? It’s possible you could sue but time/money, etc.. Maybe one discussion with a real estate lawyer could help lay out the reality of that option.
Also, consider talking with a lawyer about bankruptcy. The whole system is set up to make you think that foreclosure is the worst thing ever but it may not be in your situation. You might consider securing alternate housing under the name of one of your children/other adults in the house. And then just not paying while you save up your money. Obviously you need to do your research and the other adults living in your household need to put their minds together to figure out next steps. I’m so sorry, you’re right that this is stressful.
posted by amanda at 2:47 PM on March 7, 2023
The issue with the street seems quite problematic. Are they saying that your sewer and your neighbor’s sewer is essentially not connected?
Did you have a home inspection at the time you bought? Do you have reason to believe that you were not informed of the issues? It’s possible you could sue but time/money, etc.. Maybe one discussion with a real estate lawyer could help lay out the reality of that option.
Also, consider talking with a lawyer about bankruptcy. The whole system is set up to make you think that foreclosure is the worst thing ever but it may not be in your situation. You might consider securing alternate housing under the name of one of your children/other adults in the house. And then just not paying while you save up your money. Obviously you need to do your research and the other adults living in your household need to put their minds together to figure out next steps. I’m so sorry, you’re right that this is stressful.
posted by amanda at 2:47 PM on March 7, 2023
Another idea: what is the closest organization that helps with housing? Call every state and non-profit in the state that deals with housing. It’s possible there are programs that might help financially with your situation and/or with some of your children getting housing or financing for housing.
posted by amanda at 2:51 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by amanda at 2:51 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
A lot of those costs seem really off to me. Foundation work can be expensive, but the survey should be included, and doesn't cost $8k.
A new furnace for such a small home should be in the $2k range, not $10k.
I'd also push back against the city on the plumbing issue. Your connection might be broken, but your liability should end where the street starts. Also, there has to be corporate plumbing contractor you could call who'd have no issue repairing it, including in the street. $60k for that sounds really high too. $20k is more likely, unless your yard is huge. I'm assuming you live in a relatively small town, so try companies in your nearest metro.
$15k roof sounds about right.
Why do you need a new electrical box now? I agree you probably need one, but what's the driver?
Gutters can also wait, or you can buy plastic ones at Home Depot and install them yourself, assuming your house is one story. You can do 2 story too - scaffolding rental is cheap; it's just a bit harder. You have so many people - see if you can get any of them to help you!
Also, get plenty of estimates, because prices can vary wildly between companies.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:59 PM on March 7, 2023 [13 favorites]
A new furnace for such a small home should be in the $2k range, not $10k.
I'd also push back against the city on the plumbing issue. Your connection might be broken, but your liability should end where the street starts. Also, there has to be corporate plumbing contractor you could call who'd have no issue repairing it, including in the street. $60k for that sounds really high too. $20k is more likely, unless your yard is huge. I'm assuming you live in a relatively small town, so try companies in your nearest metro.
$15k roof sounds about right.
Why do you need a new electrical box now? I agree you probably need one, but what's the driver?
Gutters can also wait, or you can buy plastic ones at Home Depot and install them yourself, assuming your house is one story. You can do 2 story too - scaffolding rental is cheap; it's just a bit harder. You have so many people - see if you can get any of them to help you!
Also, get plenty of estimates, because prices can vary wildly between companies.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:59 PM on March 7, 2023 [13 favorites]
Also talk your insurance company about your roof and foundation - they might be able to help with a bit of money.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:01 PM on March 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:01 PM on March 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
If you could get an approval for a $150k HELOC, could you get approved for a $150k mortgage? If so, what is in your area priced at $450k-$500k? Does it look better than what you currently have?
It really does depend on what's available but it might be less hassle to borrow money to move to a better house because you won't have to live through the renovations.
posted by plonkee at 3:02 PM on March 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
It really does depend on what's available but it might be less hassle to borrow money to move to a better house because you won't have to live through the renovations.
posted by plonkee at 3:02 PM on March 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
Is there any possibility you could negotiate remote work at your job, and move to a cheaper state? (Not that this is a less stressful option, but it could theoretically work.)
posted by pinochiette at 3:06 PM on March 7, 2023
posted by pinochiette at 3:06 PM on March 7, 2023
Best answer: Can you get another home inspection, hopefully from someone much better than the last one? Because one gutter company saying you need a new roof is probably not a solid diagnosis. You need someone who can tell you if you need a new roof now, in the next three years or in five years. Same with the electrical and the furnace. For the foundation, can you hire an independent structural engineer to evaluate the house and make recommendations on what needs to be done and the timeline?
What you need is more information to make informed decisions about what has to be done tomorrow and what can wait for a year or five. The kinds of issues you are looking at don't usually go from zero to urgent disaster overnight. You need independent advice to figure out what you're really dealing with and to prioritize.
Finally a new, large fridge can be bought for much less than $2000, easily less than $1000.
posted by ssg at 3:11 PM on March 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
What you need is more information to make informed decisions about what has to be done tomorrow and what can wait for a year or five. The kinds of issues you are looking at don't usually go from zero to urgent disaster overnight. You need independent advice to figure out what you're really dealing with and to prioritize.
Finally a new, large fridge can be bought for much less than $2000, easily less than $1000.
posted by ssg at 3:11 PM on March 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
Best answer: For “the city” look up what’s on file with your street with the planning office. If you can’t parse it online, talk to the staffers at your elected officials’ office about The Sinking Street - don’t accept that this is your problem. If there is poor infrastructure design, be a squeaky wheel. If there is a community association/neighborhood group, there may be existing momentum.
If any of this is from non-disclosure, title insurance claim might be an avenue, but that’s far from my expertise.
posted by childofTethys at 3:24 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
If any of this is from non-disclosure, title insurance claim might be an avenue, but that’s far from my expertise.
posted by childofTethys at 3:24 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think renovate, but don't do it all. Let the things that can wait, wait.
The foundation - $52,000
Are you sure this needs to be done? Who told you?
The structural engineering survey - I don't have a quote yet but let's say $8000
Is this necessary?
A complete reguttering (both foundation companies stressed this) - $3500
Makes sense
A new electrical box and some modernized wiring - this was something I meant to address in 2019 but haven't gotten to yet, it can no longer wait - $6000
Why can't it wait?
A new roof. I just found out about this from the second gutter company yesterday. I have no idea how much it costs for a new roof in 2023. $15,000?
If the roof is not leaking *do not touch it.* You do not need to do preventative maintenance on the roof.
A new furnace, see above. ??? It's gas. I have no idea what it would cost to replace with a new gas furnace or to install a heat pump. Let's say $10,000.
Why do you need this?
A new refrigerator, because the one we have is 21 years old and sputtering. There are too many people living in my house and we need a giant fridge. $2000
Sounds like a good purchase.
The Plumbing Issue. The city says that the main house drain is broken at the city sewer, which is in the center of the street. They say that my across the street neighbor's sewer line is broken as well.
Ignore this.
posted by haptic_avenger at 3:28 PM on March 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
The foundation - $52,000
Are you sure this needs to be done? Who told you?
The structural engineering survey - I don't have a quote yet but let's say $8000
Is this necessary?
A complete reguttering (both foundation companies stressed this) - $3500
Makes sense
A new electrical box and some modernized wiring - this was something I meant to address in 2019 but haven't gotten to yet, it can no longer wait - $6000
Why can't it wait?
A new roof. I just found out about this from the second gutter company yesterday. I have no idea how much it costs for a new roof in 2023. $15,000?
If the roof is not leaking *do not touch it.* You do not need to do preventative maintenance on the roof.
A new furnace, see above. ??? It's gas. I have no idea what it would cost to replace with a new gas furnace or to install a heat pump. Let's say $10,000.
Why do you need this?
A new refrigerator, because the one we have is 21 years old and sputtering. There are too many people living in my house and we need a giant fridge. $2000
Sounds like a good purchase.
The Plumbing Issue. The city says that the main house drain is broken at the city sewer, which is in the center of the street. They say that my across the street neighbor's sewer line is broken as well.
Ignore this.
posted by haptic_avenger at 3:28 PM on March 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Some of this sounds like the root cause is keeping water away from the foundation. Prevention is keeping gutters clear so the water goes to the downspouts and away from the foundation. If they leak, I’ve-used plastic tarps on an angle to temporarily get the water on a downhill path away from the house. It looks awful but was put up during rain as a stopgap when the problem was obvious and the length of gutter shouldn’t be addressed by me (or anyone) on a ladder/the roof.
It didn’t have to up when it wasn’t raining, and wasn’t there after a sectional replacement.
In my area on the other side of the country, there is just more rain. One silver lining is you may be fortifying well for a shifting climate, however don’t let contractors talk you into work that might be less pressing.
posted by childofTethys at 3:47 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
It didn’t have to up when it wasn’t raining, and wasn’t there after a sectional replacement.
In my area on the other side of the country, there is just more rain. One silver lining is you may be fortifying well for a shifting climate, however don’t let contractors talk you into work that might be less pressing.
posted by childofTethys at 3:47 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: A structural engineer did and assessment on my house for about $250.
If you have storms in your area, call insurance after the next gnarly one and note that you have sone roof damage and would like an estimator to come out and take a look. This person will be honest about whether something needs fixing and may very well be able to get insurance to pay for it. I was surprised when our insurance adjuster looked at the roof (we had some shingles blown off) and told us we had hail damage. I had absolutely not seen it, and he got insurance on the hook for a replacement.
I would also talk to them about the foundation and sewer issues. Yes, our insurance premiums went up, but 1) that’s why we have insurance and 2) we would have to be in this house for another 25+ years for it to be more expensive than paying for it outright.
posted by Bottlecap at 3:53 PM on March 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
If you have storms in your area, call insurance after the next gnarly one and note that you have sone roof damage and would like an estimator to come out and take a look. This person will be honest about whether something needs fixing and may very well be able to get insurance to pay for it. I was surprised when our insurance adjuster looked at the roof (we had some shingles blown off) and told us we had hail damage. I had absolutely not seen it, and he got insurance on the hook for a replacement.
I would also talk to them about the foundation and sewer issues. Yes, our insurance premiums went up, but 1) that’s why we have insurance and 2) we would have to be in this house for another 25+ years for it to be more expensive than paying for it outright.
posted by Bottlecap at 3:53 PM on March 7, 2023 [10 favorites]
Best answer: It sounds like you're in a really bad situation and I'm not surprised you're stressed.
Honestly, the amount you have to spend on repairs for a house that sounds like it doesn't really have any redeeming value as it sits doesn't seem like a good investment. In your situation, I would take a serious look at the cost of a demolish/rebuild process. Even if it costs a bit more (which I acknowledge may push this beyond any possibility), you end up with a brand new house with no problems and the extra cost may be less than you think, especially considering other problems that may be discovered while doing all the work you've identified. With all the problems you know about, I guarantee there are some you don't (yet).
Starting from a position that you're going to fix your house, the first thing is to ignore any problems that exist with the sewer line in the street - this is absolutely not your responsibility and you should, as suggested, move from defence to attack with the city authority, perhaps by getting your neighbours to also start complaining about the sinking street and insist they do something. Either way, this is NOT your problem so, if you don't have bandwidth to attack the city, just ignore it for the time being.
The second thing is to take a serious look at the property inspection you had done. Particularly if that report stated the foundation was sound. There's no doubt lots of disclaimers in place, but there's at least a chance that they are required to make good on their failure to do their job. A legal review might be worth the investment.
Finally, all these individual issues are a lot to get your head around as someone who (I assume) is not an expert in building. Contact some builders (you call them general contractors, I think) and get them to appraise what needs to be done across the board and provide you with quotes for the whole lot. There's likely to not be much, if any, difference in cost overall, because they can negotiate better rates for individual contractors that will cover their own charges. This remove the stress of dealing with and co-ordinating multiple trades and the extra cost of covering things not being done in the correct order because you didn't know x had to be done before y and nobody bothered to tell you.
Now, an additional dose of reality (which you may view as me being an uncaring arsehole). You are 59 and (at least partially) supporting your 'two adult children, their SOs and a toddler'. This seems incredibly unfair on you and maybe it's time your kids stood up a bit more and either found their own place or helped out more. Yes, times are tough and the housing market is shit everywhere. But you are at an age where you have a right to expect not to have to support your children. Maybe there are mitigating circumstances that are none of my business and maybe I'm just out of line altogether. Anyway, that's my 2c worth.
posted by dg at 4:10 PM on March 7, 2023 [16 favorites]
Honestly, the amount you have to spend on repairs for a house that sounds like it doesn't really have any redeeming value as it sits doesn't seem like a good investment. In your situation, I would take a serious look at the cost of a demolish/rebuild process. Even if it costs a bit more (which I acknowledge may push this beyond any possibility), you end up with a brand new house with no problems and the extra cost may be less than you think, especially considering other problems that may be discovered while doing all the work you've identified. With all the problems you know about, I guarantee there are some you don't (yet).
Starting from a position that you're going to fix your house, the first thing is to ignore any problems that exist with the sewer line in the street - this is absolutely not your responsibility and you should, as suggested, move from defence to attack with the city authority, perhaps by getting your neighbours to also start complaining about the sinking street and insist they do something. Either way, this is NOT your problem so, if you don't have bandwidth to attack the city, just ignore it for the time being.
The second thing is to take a serious look at the property inspection you had done. Particularly if that report stated the foundation was sound. There's no doubt lots of disclaimers in place, but there's at least a chance that they are required to make good on their failure to do their job. A legal review might be worth the investment.
Finally, all these individual issues are a lot to get your head around as someone who (I assume) is not an expert in building. Contact some builders (you call them general contractors, I think) and get them to appraise what needs to be done across the board and provide you with quotes for the whole lot. There's likely to not be much, if any, difference in cost overall, because they can negotiate better rates for individual contractors that will cover their own charges. This remove the stress of dealing with and co-ordinating multiple trades and the extra cost of covering things not being done in the correct order because you didn't know x had to be done before y and nobody bothered to tell you.
Now, an additional dose of reality (which you may view as me being an uncaring arsehole). You are 59 and (at least partially) supporting your 'two adult children, their SOs and a toddler'. This seems incredibly unfair on you and maybe it's time your kids stood up a bit more and either found their own place or helped out more. Yes, times are tough and the housing market is shit everywhere. But you are at an age where you have a right to expect not to have to support your children. Maybe there are mitigating circumstances that are none of my business and maybe I'm just out of line altogether. Anyway, that's my 2c worth.
posted by dg at 4:10 PM on March 7, 2023 [16 favorites]
My non-expert advice is to keep the house- you like it, and realistically you and your family members can't afford to rent or buy elsewhere. Do some triage on the repairs- what needs to be done now/within 1 year vs what can wait 2-5 years? Some of the costs might be lower than what you're estimating, as noted by commenters above. Look into state funding available - for example, some states offer great deals/subsidies on replacing heating systems or other work that will make the house more energy efficient. Good luck!
posted by emd3737 at 4:31 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by emd3737 at 4:31 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Devil's advocate here, but: Sell and buy a condo somewhere else with the cash. If you have extra cash left over from the sale, put it toward a rental deposit for your kids.
posted by kingdead at 4:37 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by kingdead at 4:37 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
I like the advice to get another home inspection - they seem to be fairly regulated in Oregon and honestly it’s almost four years with some heavy storms since they told you five years and it’s not leaking yet. You should get a report with findings and recommended fixes and probably a general timeline for ~$300. You’ll also get a walk through with someone who knows how houses work to ask questions and get advice on what the signs are that a problem has become urgent.
You can also contact realtors to get estimates for what they’d list your house at and what they recommend fixing before putting it on the market. You have a major asset and there are ways to finance the gap between selling your house and buying another, a realtor should be happy to help with this, too. You may be able to shake a realtor down for recs for repair folks, as well.
I’m concerned about you taking on a substantial mortgage at 59. Can you live on your estimated social security payment while paying the mortgage? Are you likely to be able to work to 65-67? Where are your coworkers moving to escape housing prices and is that appealing to you?
posted by momus_window at 5:50 PM on March 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
You can also contact realtors to get estimates for what they’d list your house at and what they recommend fixing before putting it on the market. You have a major asset and there are ways to finance the gap between selling your house and buying another, a realtor should be happy to help with this, too. You may be able to shake a realtor down for recs for repair folks, as well.
I’m concerned about you taking on a substantial mortgage at 59. Can you live on your estimated social security payment while paying the mortgage? Are you likely to be able to work to 65-67? Where are your coworkers moving to escape housing prices and is that appealing to you?
posted by momus_window at 5:50 PM on March 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
With respect to the foundation, you should talk with the engineer you are hiring about whether the foundation could be repaired using helical piles, instead of being replaced.
posted by rockindata at 5:51 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rockindata at 5:51 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Sounds to me like you've got mission creep in that you started with, presumably, the foundation issue, decided you needed to borrow money to fix it, then decided you might as well fix all these other things while you're at it. I would take a good hard look at every one of these things and ask if it really needs to be done today. If the roof is not leaking, why does it need to be replaced? Often they can go many, many years past their life expectancy. Is the furnace broken? Can the passel of people living in your house install the gutters? Is there a way to mitigate the foundation issue without replacing it?
And then at the same time, get a realtor in there to give you an idea of what you could sell for as is or with various increments of repair, and try to find the sweet spot. If they think you could get out of it for what you've got in it (or after you make some but not all repairs), then that might be your best option, because frankly, once you start a big project like replacing a foundation, you just never know where you're going to end up, and at 59 you don't have time to recover from a big financial setback. If you're going to borrow money, I'd rather see you do it for a nice solid house that doesn't need work, rather than for a big risky repair adventure.
posted by HotToddy at 6:08 PM on March 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
And then at the same time, get a realtor in there to give you an idea of what you could sell for as is or with various increments of repair, and try to find the sweet spot. If they think you could get out of it for what you've got in it (or after you make some but not all repairs), then that might be your best option, because frankly, once you start a big project like replacing a foundation, you just never know where you're going to end up, and at 59 you don't have time to recover from a big financial setback. If you're going to borrow money, I'd rather see you do it for a nice solid house that doesn't need work, rather than for a big risky repair adventure.
posted by HotToddy at 6:08 PM on March 7, 2023 [11 favorites]
Third option: sell the house, pack up the entire family and move to Rochester, NY, where you can get a pretty nice 2000+ sq ft duplex with 6 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a big basement and a big attic for under $150,000. Sometimes, running away is the best option.
I also agree with the people saying talk to a lawyer about the fact that your inspector said the foundation was ok, yet clearly it wasn’t. Same with the roof.
posted by MexicanYenta at 7:42 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I also agree with the people saying talk to a lawyer about the fact that your inspector said the foundation was ok, yet clearly it wasn’t. Same with the roof.
posted by MexicanYenta at 7:42 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: A structural engineer can come in and give you a range of options. They work for you, so you don't have the conflict of interest the other contractors have. They'll be able to say things like "watch this crack and if it gets bigger you need to do X, otherwise you don't need to do anything" or give you cheaper options to buy you time. Like others said, this will be under $1k. Actually drawing up exactly what to do might cost more, but you shouldn't need to spend $8k unless they truly determine your house is actively collapsing.
You should get gutters installed right away and route them at least ten feet away from the house. That quote sounds a little high, but not completely outrageous.
If the furnace really does need work soon, sounds like the non-parent child should install something from https://mrcooldiy.com/.
Those closing costs seem very excessive. Look around for a mortgage broker or online companies.
If these are all real problems, you are not getting $350k for the house; you'd be lucky to get what you paid. And if they aren't real problems, then there's no reason to move. So both support you staying in place.
posted by flimflam at 8:31 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
You should get gutters installed right away and route them at least ten feet away from the house. That quote sounds a little high, but not completely outrageous.
If the furnace really does need work soon, sounds like the non-parent child should install something from https://mrcooldiy.com/.
Those closing costs seem very excessive. Look around for a mortgage broker or online companies.
If these are all real problems, you are not getting $350k for the house; you'd be lucky to get what you paid. And if they aren't real problems, then there's no reason to move. So both support you staying in place.
posted by flimflam at 8:31 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wiring that's working and doesn't invalidate your insurance probably doesn't need replacing right this second. Same for the furnace - you'll pay extra for running an inefficient furnace, but if it's heating the house it's working.
If you do go for a heat pump, check for rebates in your area, along with tax breaks. Heat pump equipment is actually quite cheap nowadays so you're mainly paying for installation and if you can use your existing ductwork it shouldn't be a huge job.
Given you have 100% equity in the home, you might be better off making your HELOC bigger rather than getting a mortgage. The interest rate will be higher, but the closing costs should be close to zero. Depends on how paying it off works for you as to whether that is cheaper in the long run.
How did 'you find out' that the foundation needs repairing? Because that would normally require a structural survey of some sort. I can imagine that one other sort of survey - a geotechnical survey where they take soil samples from bores - might be in the $8k price range, and that seems to tie in to putting in piles in a way I don't yet understand, but structural surveys usually aren't that much, they're someone eyeballing the place.
I had a floor level survey recently, to work out where specifically my house was sagging, and that was under $1k in a not-cheap area. And even though it is sagging measurably, I don't need urgent foundational work and the house is not falling down just yet. The report I got was very comprehensive and told me how my house was built, where the problems lie and several solutions for each, and included a number of minor issues that were worth knowing about and some of which are at the 'can wield a paint brush' level of skill to fix.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 9:56 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you do go for a heat pump, check for rebates in your area, along with tax breaks. Heat pump equipment is actually quite cheap nowadays so you're mainly paying for installation and if you can use your existing ductwork it shouldn't be a huge job.
Given you have 100% equity in the home, you might be better off making your HELOC bigger rather than getting a mortgage. The interest rate will be higher, but the closing costs should be close to zero. Depends on how paying it off works for you as to whether that is cheaper in the long run.
How did 'you find out' that the foundation needs repairing? Because that would normally require a structural survey of some sort. I can imagine that one other sort of survey - a geotechnical survey where they take soil samples from bores - might be in the $8k price range, and that seems to tie in to putting in piles in a way I don't yet understand, but structural surveys usually aren't that much, they're someone eyeballing the place.
I had a floor level survey recently, to work out where specifically my house was sagging, and that was under $1k in a not-cheap area. And even though it is sagging measurably, I don't need urgent foundational work and the house is not falling down just yet. The report I got was very comprehensive and told me how my house was built, where the problems lie and several solutions for each, and included a number of minor issues that were worth knowing about and some of which are at the 'can wield a paint brush' level of skill to fix.
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 9:56 PM on March 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
From what you've laid out, your best option is to get the loan and make the repairs, even though it's a huge financial hit and it sucks. Moving to any other place will be more expensive. The payments on a $150k loan will probably be less than rent for 6 people.
- Defer the electrical work unless it's completely non-functional or hazardous.
- Defer the furnace replacement unless it is non-functional. A furnace for a 1600sqft will be much less than $10k installed. Heat pumps are more expensive.
- You can get a fridge for under $1000. Look for clearance items at Best Buy / Home Depot / Lowe's.
- Defer the sewer work unless the city forces you to do it.
- How do you know you need a roof replacement? Unless there's water ingress, defer this too. If water is getting in, replace the roof ASAP.
- Repair the foundation and the gutters.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:20 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
- Defer the electrical work unless it's completely non-functional or hazardous.
- Defer the furnace replacement unless it is non-functional. A furnace for a 1600sqft will be much less than $10k installed. Heat pumps are more expensive.
- You can get a fridge for under $1000. Look for clearance items at Best Buy / Home Depot / Lowe's.
- Defer the sewer work unless the city forces you to do it.
- How do you know you need a roof replacement? Unless there's water ingress, defer this too. If water is getting in, replace the roof ASAP.
- Repair the foundation and the gutters.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:20 PM on March 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I've lived with someone for many years who finds this sort of remodeling to be a rewarding challenge. I'm his girl Friday, clinging to the scaffolding as we rip off the roof shingles and replace the plywood. Fun times.
Government tax credits.
Do your own d.i.y. projects (guttering, drywall, paint jobs, replacing baseboards and other trim, etc.) Be mindful of volunteers who might sue you for injuries on the job (which is why we ask our relatives and politely decline assistance from our neighbors).
Check with your home insurance about professional repairs (electrical, plumbing, natural gas, anything that involves Freon or other refrigerants). The city building inspectors may have rules in place about whether you can do your own work, or whether it must be handled by licensed professionals. They may have a list of contractors available.
New roof: We have installed several Energy Star metal roofs, 50-year lifespan, which should outlive us. Before that, we installed basic three-tab asphalt shingle roofs.
Central heat and air conditioning: We had a mini-split ductless system installed last year at another property and could kick ourselves since it is now something that the government will pay for. We are considering another installation in our home this summer.
Converting from natural gas to electric: At this point the only natural gas elements in our home are the water heater, a room heater, and the house heating system. We are considering replacing those systems and eliminating that monthly bill.
If there is a geographic issue about the street/private property, how is fixing the foundation going to be a permanent solution? Is this a band-aid, or will it be guaranteed? I would be cautious about making repairs that could be undone by repeated settling of the house.
One mistake we have made before -- working to make our home the best on the block. It improves the resale value of our neighbors, while the other properties lower our asking price. Get an honest appraisal from a real estate agent before spending more on the building than you can reasonably expect as a return on your investment.
Good luck.
posted by TrishaU at 11:22 PM on March 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Government tax credits.
Do your own d.i.y. projects (guttering, drywall, paint jobs, replacing baseboards and other trim, etc.) Be mindful of volunteers who might sue you for injuries on the job (which is why we ask our relatives and politely decline assistance from our neighbors).
Check with your home insurance about professional repairs (electrical, plumbing, natural gas, anything that involves Freon or other refrigerants). The city building inspectors may have rules in place about whether you can do your own work, or whether it must be handled by licensed professionals. They may have a list of contractors available.
New roof: We have installed several Energy Star metal roofs, 50-year lifespan, which should outlive us. Before that, we installed basic three-tab asphalt shingle roofs.
Central heat and air conditioning: We had a mini-split ductless system installed last year at another property and could kick ourselves since it is now something that the government will pay for. We are considering another installation in our home this summer.
Converting from natural gas to electric: At this point the only natural gas elements in our home are the water heater, a room heater, and the house heating system. We are considering replacing those systems and eliminating that monthly bill.
If there is a geographic issue about the street/private property, how is fixing the foundation going to be a permanent solution? Is this a band-aid, or will it be guaranteed? I would be cautious about making repairs that could be undone by repeated settling of the house.
One mistake we have made before -- working to make our home the best on the block. It improves the resale value of our neighbors, while the other properties lower our asking price. Get an honest appraisal from a real estate agent before spending more on the building than you can reasonably expect as a return on your investment.
Good luck.
posted by TrishaU at 11:22 PM on March 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
You seem to be unsure about the cost of some of the fixes. Find out those numbers and then make a plan.
posted by bendy at 12:32 AM on March 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by bendy at 12:32 AM on March 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Yep, thread-sitting, but since I did not address the "new furnace/electric wiring" issue as well as I would like, here is more information.
I would prefer government sources, but here are a few articles about qualifying for a heat pump tax credit or rebate based on your state's median household income. This also may include work on your electric system:
"... for upgrading your electrical supply if it’s required for efficiency projects—for example, in order to power an electric heat pump when you previously used natural gas to heat your home."
However, there is debate on whether a heat pump is more efficient than a natural gas heater in colder climates. Another issue is having a backup system if you lose electricity.
Rebate programs may also be offered by states and utility companies within those states.
There is more sales pitch in this article, but it does reference checking with the State Energy Office for your area and the Fannie Mae Area Median Income Lookup Tool to see if you qualify for a heat pump rebate.
posted by TrishaU at 1:28 AM on March 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
I would prefer government sources, but here are a few articles about qualifying for a heat pump tax credit or rebate based on your state's median household income. This also may include work on your electric system:
"... for upgrading your electrical supply if it’s required for efficiency projects—for example, in order to power an electric heat pump when you previously used natural gas to heat your home."
However, there is debate on whether a heat pump is more efficient than a natural gas heater in colder climates. Another issue is having a backup system if you lose electricity.
Rebate programs may also be offered by states and utility companies within those states.
There is more sales pitch in this article, but it does reference checking with the State Energy Office for your area and the Fannie Mae Area Median Income Lookup Tool to see if you qualify for a heat pump rebate.
posted by TrishaU at 1:28 AM on March 8, 2023 [3 favorites]
That sounds very stressful!
You can get a decent fridge for under $2000. It will be much more energy efficient than your current fridge, which will hopefully mean a noticeable reduction on your power bill.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 4:02 AM on March 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
You can get a decent fridge for under $2000. It will be much more energy efficient than your current fridge, which will hopefully mean a noticeable reduction on your power bill.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 4:02 AM on March 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Agree with much of the advice above. For the sewer line, get a septic tank service company to come run a camera down your line, that should just be a few $100s at most. Likely it will show that the problem is not your line and then the city will shut up. I've had this with a property I owned and it was clear that the city always just tries to blame the property owner first in hope that they will pay. They were trying to bill me for $20K (this was about 20 years ago) and a quick visit from a plumber with a camera line made the whole thing instantly go away.
posted by Rhedyn at 4:19 AM on March 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Rhedyn at 4:19 AM on March 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
I would absolutely walk away from this snowballing nightmare. Call a realtor and disclose everything to them. Find out what you're required in OR to disclose to buyers. Sell it, use any proceeds for a place just for you, for the long term. You can help your adult kids as and when you're able to. Don't bankrupt yourself to house them, especially at your age.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:17 AM on March 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 5:17 AM on March 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
I wonder how many of these presumably male "experts" are taking advantage of the fact that you are an older woman with limited construction knowledge. (I am another older woman with a little more construction knowledge.) What are the symptoms? Is your house suddenly sagging? Is your roof leaking? Is your fridge failing to keep food cold? Is the furnace failing to keep the house warm? Yes, some things need repair or replacement, but perhaps not all at once. If the house is sagging, strategically placed posts under it might work. Is there a neighborhood handyperson who could clean your gutters and replace any broken gutter parts? If the fridge isn't working by all means buy a new one. If the furnace isn't working small ceramic heaters are cheap and fairly safe. It's not like you're expecting extreme low temps, right. There are probably all sorts of less-expensive remedies.
posted by mareli at 7:37 AM on March 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by mareli at 7:37 AM on March 8, 2023 [7 favorites]
In addition to your own structural engineer assessment, not paid by a company who wants to do work for you, I'd strongly recommend getting a good home inspector to come in and do an inspection of your home. Tell them your situation and they will tell you which of those things are necessary and which can wait and in what order to triage them, along with anything else you need to do or keep an eye on. They may also be able to ballpark repair costs for you.
A home inspector works for you and isn't trying to sell you anything except their inspection. And, if there's anything significantly worse than you know about, at least you'll know now before sinking more money into the house. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but you'll be going in with eyes open either way.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:03 AM on March 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
A home inspector works for you and isn't trying to sell you anything except their inspection. And, if there's anything significantly worse than you know about, at least you'll know now before sinking more money into the house. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but you'll be going in with eyes open either way.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:03 AM on March 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was not really impressed with my home inspector, but maybe they are different in other parts of the country.
By the time your roof is noticeably leaking it's too far gone and far more expensive to repair. So is it leaking? Is not good advice, unless I guess you can see all the way up to the decking. Unless you just enjoy fixing soggy insulation and drywall, and the bug problems that come with it.
Also, if they have an old dodgy electrical system, suggesting they plug in a bunch of individual room heaters is not good advice. That could cause some real hazards. You could maybe plug in one and huddle around it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:09 AM on March 8, 2023
By the time your roof is noticeably leaking it's too far gone and far more expensive to repair. So is it leaking? Is not good advice, unless I guess you can see all the way up to the decking. Unless you just enjoy fixing soggy insulation and drywall, and the bug problems that come with it.
Also, if they have an old dodgy electrical system, suggesting they plug in a bunch of individual room heaters is not good advice. That could cause some real hazards. You could maybe plug in one and huddle around it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:09 AM on March 8, 2023
Is there any sort of environmental group that would be concerned about the sewage situation and willing to help you fight city hall?
If anything nasty should back up into your house, you have 6 people likely to get sick.
Sorry about all your troubles. I agree with the above replies, do only what's necessary, one step at a time. Look for government assistance programs, and put the other adults to work on what can be fixed by amateurs.
posted by Enid Lareg at 10:24 AM on March 8, 2023
If anything nasty should back up into your house, you have 6 people likely to get sick.
Sorry about all your troubles. I agree with the above replies, do only what's necessary, one step at a time. Look for government assistance programs, and put the other adults to work on what can be fixed by amateurs.
posted by Enid Lareg at 10:24 AM on March 8, 2023
Look for a competent excavator. They often hold master plumbing licenses and can be the general on both the plumbing and foundation. Excavation is the main cost for some of these issues, let them do the digging. They will know others who can take care of the rest. The roof should be covered by the purchase. An excavator saved me tens of thousands of dollars at one time. If the house jacks are in place, that is one thing out of the way.
posted by Oyéah at 1:52 PM on March 8, 2023
posted by Oyéah at 1:52 PM on March 8, 2023
Don’t hate me but are you absolutely sure the working kids can’t take care of their own housing? I can’t imagine you could all stay in the house while all the work you mentioned is going on anyway.
posted by kapers at 5:49 PM on March 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by kapers at 5:49 PM on March 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, wow, what a problem.
How big is the lot? Is there room for an ADU (accessory dwelling unit) and what's your town/county 's rules on ADUs? That'd get 3 people out of the house. Prices are all over the place, but there are some under $10k, probably some work required. Here's one near you: https://humboldt.craigslist.org/grd/d/fortuna-tiny-house-project-on-wheels/7593575335.html
You are doing a great favor to your kids by giving them free housing, and I'll take your word that they cannot help out. Can they do sweat equity? Tons of youtube home-owner DIY learnings.
Could you sell this house and move 6 miles inland and get the same sized house for half the price? Coast==price premium. 20 miles?
I love @ImproviseOrDie 's suggestion of at least talking to a realtor to find out what you must legally disclose.
posted by at at 8:52 PM on March 8, 2023
How big is the lot? Is there room for an ADU (accessory dwelling unit) and what's your town/county 's rules on ADUs? That'd get 3 people out of the house. Prices are all over the place, but there are some under $10k, probably some work required. Here's one near you: https://humboldt.craigslist.org/grd/d/fortuna-tiny-house-project-on-wheels/7593575335.html
You are doing a great favor to your kids by giving them free housing, and I'll take your word that they cannot help out. Can they do sweat equity? Tons of youtube home-owner DIY learnings.
Could you sell this house and move 6 miles inland and get the same sized house for half the price? Coast==price premium. 20 miles?
I love @ImproviseOrDie 's suggestion of at least talking to a realtor to find out what you must legally disclose.
posted by at at 8:52 PM on March 8, 2023
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone for all the input and kind thoughts. We are now in a holding pattern waiting for the mortgage people to do an appraisal as well as for the structural engineer (it is significantly less than $8K, that was my mistake) to come completely explore the crawl space and decide whether helical piles and a new support beam and whatever else they are proposing is even going to work. Meanwhile I had a contractor I know come and inspect the roof yesterday; their verdict is yes, indeed, it is time for a new roof. This is the fourth opinion - the others came from the guttering company estimates. Apparently the gutters were never installed properly, were never the right size, never had enough downspouts and anyway, the fascia boards are probably rotted. The hits just keep on coming.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:56 PM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:56 PM on March 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I’m not a proper adult, but I’m at 37 yo homeowner. We also have a questionable foundation - a 1905 river rock foundation in SoCal earthquake country, and it cannot be braced. It’s also a little crumbly. Honestly, after getting quotes to fix it, our approach has been to just get earthquake insurance. Is your home insured? Are you comfortable with the current state of the foundation to take the risk? (Safety of course is a big concern.)
posted by samthemander at 2:41 PM on March 7, 2023 [1 favorite]