I'm totally Stuck
February 20, 2023 9:22 AM Subscribe
I have a long history of eliminating people from my life for any number of reasons. It's gotten really, really bad.
So here I am post-Covid with just one friend; the one I've had since I was 6 years old.
I guess I'm not the nice, caring person I think I am. I feel like I'm generous and helpful, but apparently there are limits to what I'm willing to accept should a friend 'cross' me in some form or fashion.
I've always been a quality over quantity kind of person when it came to friendships. Until a decade or so ago I had a small circle of friends, but they were good friends. Then a neighbor I hadn't previously met invited me to lunch with her and her group of local friends, many of whom lived right in my neighborhood that I'd never met. With this group I made a few close friends who I'd get together with outside of the group gatherings. One in particular lives 1 block away and we were very close friends.
Well, I managed to screw that up, as well. Here's how that happened. Mid-Covid, post lockdown, I decided to go look at 'new' (used) cars even though my car had no issues and was paid off. Ol' dad always told me that I should never own a car with more than 100k miles on it, and despite knowing that was very antiquated thinking I continued to look at cars. This friend's son is very knowledgeable about everything to do with cars so I asked her to check with him to see if the trade-in price I'd been given was fair. Yes, it was. She then told me how she always loved my car so I STUPIDLY asked her if she'd like to buy it. Yes! So, that happened. (I guess ol' dad never emphasized the rule to Never do business with friends! Ug). I sold it to her for the price the dealership offered me, never even checking the private party price. I didn't want to "upset" her, but even saying as much as Let me do some more research of this or that between us the price would be higher. Yeah, I've got serious "avoid confrontation at all costs" issues. So, she bought my beloved SUV for X$. A couple of weeks later she sold her older SUV with more miles for $5k MORE than what she bought mine for, so she had a free car plus more $$ in the bank. Oh, and remember when they first said used car prices were spiking due to lack of inventory and that $10k car you'd been eyeing was now far more than that? Well, I sold my SUV about a week before that news came out! Really bad move. THEN, friend sold my SUV about 6 months later because it turned out she didnt like it as much as she thought she did after all. Again getting top $$. So there was all of that. I know it was all my doing, but it was just bad all around and definitely fractured our friendship.
Then, almost a year ago, I got Covid. That plus a long-term health issue flare up landed me in the hospital. We'd been texting back and forth here and there and I'd told her I was not well and had been admitted to the hospital. No reply. For a couple of weeks. Nothing. Then she asked again without referencing my previous reply so I told her again, and to this day.... nothing. If a friend tells you they've been admitted to the hospital don't you reply with some sort of care or concern? So, I guess that's that because I'm not going to beg someone to show me concern if they're not feeling it.
So now I have that one childhood friend who now lives thousands of miles away.
I'm depressed, anxious, and very lonely. Due to my depression and post-Covid times dislike and inability to rejoin society, I'm stuck. Friendless. I think about joining some community class or something, but... people. They're just not as nice as I remember them to be from pre-Covid times.
If anyone has any suggestions as to how to make later in life friends, hit me up. Otherwise, thanks for listening.
I am that one friend left for a friend of mine and he could’ve written this post. He’s charismatic and makes friends easily, but he’s also had a hard life and as he’s gotten older (he’s in his mid-seventies now), he’s become more and more impatient and drops people over minor things. The cycle that seems most common is that he’ll be generous (sometimes overly so), expect reciprocity, and when that isn’t to the level or enthusiasm he expects, feels taken advantage of.
Years ago, I decided to just love him no matter what, and we are probably only still friends because of that. I don’t have any advice for him, or you, but I suspect examining that initial generous impulse might be a place to start.
posted by 10ch at 9:53 AM on February 20, 2023 [15 favorites]
Years ago, I decided to just love him no matter what, and we are probably only still friends because of that. I don’t have any advice for him, or you, but I suspect examining that initial generous impulse might be a place to start.
posted by 10ch at 9:53 AM on February 20, 2023 [15 favorites]
The most foolproof method I know for making friends as an adult is to put yourself in a situation where you’re going to see and interact with the same group of people regularly over time. It kind of doesn’t matter what the activity is — pickleball, poker game, pottery class, whatever — so long as you’re seeing roughly the same group of people roughly weekly. Just choose an activity you’re interested in, look for a club or Meetup or class or volunteer group or whatever you like, and start showing up every week. Over time, you’ll get to know folks and opportunities for friendship will come up. If you find that the club/Meetup/class/volunteer group is full of jerks (it happens), don’t sweat it — just try another one. It does work — it just requires putting in the time.
As far as not losing existing friends faster than you can make new ones — it sounds like you’re well aware that your “avoid confrontation” habits can actually cause more trouble than they save. It sounds like, in the example you gave, avoiding confrontation let you build up resentment until the situation was unsalvageable, instead of just resolving it with a conversation or two. If you want to learn different ways of approaching friendships, it will take practice. I would highly recommend finding a therapist to help speed that process along. Therapy can be like a training ground that lets you figure out and practice some of this stuff without subjecting your real-life friends and family to your learning process. I really think it could be helpful for you on this issue.
posted by ourobouros at 9:54 AM on February 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
As far as not losing existing friends faster than you can make new ones — it sounds like you’re well aware that your “avoid confrontation” habits can actually cause more trouble than they save. It sounds like, in the example you gave, avoiding confrontation let you build up resentment until the situation was unsalvageable, instead of just resolving it with a conversation or two. If you want to learn different ways of approaching friendships, it will take practice. I would highly recommend finding a therapist to help speed that process along. Therapy can be like a training ground that lets you figure out and practice some of this stuff without subjecting your real-life friends and family to your learning process. I really think it could be helpful for you on this issue.
posted by ourobouros at 9:54 AM on February 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
In the first example you cite, I don't know what you could possibly be holding against your friend--you're the one who offered the lower price, and what she did with either of her cars afterwards and how much she got for them is frankly none of your business (or at least, nothing you should feel entitled to hold a grudge about). Yeah, maybe someone who was very concerned about fairness would voluntarily offer you more money, but you'd have to be pretty saintly to just straight up give someone several thousand dollars if they were not visibly in need and did not ask for them.
There seems to be some context missing in your second example, but it does seem based on what you describe that this person did not think of you as a close friend a year ago (close enough to warrant visiting you in the hospital) and nothing you write here suggests she's especially thoughtful or compassionate. (In fact, do you even like this person or was she just a convenient friend because she lives nearby?)
But I will say that both examples you cite display an apparent pattern of expecting people to meet your expectations without communicating them and then resenting them for not meeting them. I would say, move on from this particular friendship, but in the future you definitely have to unlearn that behavior, because it will sabotage any friendship you have. It also sounds like you are someone who engages in codependent behaviors--a classic pattern here is self-victimization to benefit someone else (like the car thing--do you also bend over backwards to, say, accommodate other people's schedules even when they don't work very well for you, or spend a lot of care and attention picking out gifts and never feel like other people do the same for you?) followed by resentment and rejection of the person for not responding "appropriately" to your self-sacrificing actions. Once you learn to free yourself from the things that cause this type of pattern and value yourself and your desires and priorities, I think you will find it easier to make friends.
posted by derrinyet at 9:59 AM on February 20, 2023 [48 favorites]
There seems to be some context missing in your second example, but it does seem based on what you describe that this person did not think of you as a close friend a year ago (close enough to warrant visiting you in the hospital) and nothing you write here suggests she's especially thoughtful or compassionate. (In fact, do you even like this person or was she just a convenient friend because she lives nearby?)
But I will say that both examples you cite display an apparent pattern of expecting people to meet your expectations without communicating them and then resenting them for not meeting them. I would say, move on from this particular friendship, but in the future you definitely have to unlearn that behavior, because it will sabotage any friendship you have. It also sounds like you are someone who engages in codependent behaviors--a classic pattern here is self-victimization to benefit someone else (like the car thing--do you also bend over backwards to, say, accommodate other people's schedules even when they don't work very well for you, or spend a lot of care and attention picking out gifts and never feel like other people do the same for you?) followed by resentment and rejection of the person for not responding "appropriately" to your self-sacrificing actions. Once you learn to free yourself from the things that cause this type of pattern and value yourself and your desires and priorities, I think you will find it easier to make friends.
posted by derrinyet at 9:59 AM on February 20, 2023 [48 favorites]
One thing to think about is that not every friend has to be a friend in the same way, or the same degree!
You can have friends where you see each other ten times a week and support each other through crises. And you can also have friends where you send funny memes back and forth once a month and get coffee occasionally if you happen to be in the same city. Some friends panic and disappear in a health crisis, but they'd give up their weekend to help you move.
Anyhow, it might help you to meet people where they are with that stuff. A larger circle of imperfect friends still means that you have some people who are a fit for whatever situation you find yourself, even if most of them aren't.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:05 AM on February 20, 2023 [12 favorites]
You can have friends where you see each other ten times a week and support each other through crises. And you can also have friends where you send funny memes back and forth once a month and get coffee occasionally if you happen to be in the same city. Some friends panic and disappear in a health crisis, but they'd give up their weekend to help you move.
Anyhow, it might help you to meet people where they are with that stuff. A larger circle of imperfect friends still means that you have some people who are a fit for whatever situation you find yourself, even if most of them aren't.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:05 AM on February 20, 2023 [12 favorites]
I don't really understand the car story and how it relates to the hospital story. Sounds like your friend made out pretty well on the car deal and you had some regrets, okay, but did you have a falling out over it? Do you feel like she didn't express concern over you being hospitalized because of the car deal (and why would that be, if she got the better end of it??) or because she's an indifferent friend? And how does her indifference equal you eliminating her from your life? I'm confused.
Anyway, as far as advice, the best strategy for keeping relationships is just to adjust your expectations of them as you acquire new information. Now you know that this friend is someone who cannot be relied on for sympathy or help during an illness--so not a bosom friend, no, but you can choose to maintain a more shallow relationship with them rather than eliminating them from your life. It's good to have connections, even weak ones. The more connections you maintain, the greater your chances of serendipitously stumbling into strong ones. Be willing to adjust your expectations of people and make your default mode one of holding onto relationships but, you know, with a weather eye.
posted by HotToddy at 10:10 AM on February 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Anyway, as far as advice, the best strategy for keeping relationships is just to adjust your expectations of them as you acquire new information. Now you know that this friend is someone who cannot be relied on for sympathy or help during an illness--so not a bosom friend, no, but you can choose to maintain a more shallow relationship with them rather than eliminating them from your life. It's good to have connections, even weak ones. The more connections you maintain, the greater your chances of serendipitously stumbling into strong ones. Be willing to adjust your expectations of people and make your default mode one of holding onto relationships but, you know, with a weather eye.
posted by HotToddy at 10:10 AM on February 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have a similar tendency to value quality friendships over quantity acquaintanceships. But I've recently worked really hard to change this and am trying to regard friendship "levels" as more fluid.
I've done what @ourobouros suggests above to make new friends -- it really does work -- and simultaneously I've tried to be more gentle with myself and my friends. If someone doesn't reply for a time, or blows up at me, or gets mad at me for something I don't think is valid, I take a step back and assess. I think about what the problem is, how it fits into the bigger picture of our friendship, and how important it is to me to be "right" in this particular instance.
For example, in your car situation above, the timing of everything that happened really sucks. Is having that acknowledged (by her, by strangers on the internet, or by yourself) more important to you than this friendship is? It's ok if it is, but getting clear on that for yourself is important and should come before thinking about how to interact with your friend going forward.
It's also ok for friendships to ebb and flow. I have a friend who's been an important part of my life for over 25 years. Sometimes he and I are really close, and sometimes we drift apart a bit. I've learned over time to accept this as ok and natural. We don't have to be besties all the time. Having increased the number of friends I have makes this ebb and flow easier for me to accept.
Expecting one person, or a small group of people, to fulfill my need for friendship, connection, social interaction and love, now seems really unfair to me. Having more people in my life has increased the overall amount of friendship, connection, social interaction and love in my life, and that has had surprising and diverse benefits to my day to day experience.
posted by OrangeDisk at 10:15 AM on February 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've done what @ourobouros suggests above to make new friends -- it really does work -- and simultaneously I've tried to be more gentle with myself and my friends. If someone doesn't reply for a time, or blows up at me, or gets mad at me for something I don't think is valid, I take a step back and assess. I think about what the problem is, how it fits into the bigger picture of our friendship, and how important it is to me to be "right" in this particular instance.
For example, in your car situation above, the timing of everything that happened really sucks. Is having that acknowledged (by her, by strangers on the internet, or by yourself) more important to you than this friendship is? It's ok if it is, but getting clear on that for yourself is important and should come before thinking about how to interact with your friend going forward.
It's also ok for friendships to ebb and flow. I have a friend who's been an important part of my life for over 25 years. Sometimes he and I are really close, and sometimes we drift apart a bit. I've learned over time to accept this as ok and natural. We don't have to be besties all the time. Having increased the number of friends I have makes this ebb and flow easier for me to accept.
Expecting one person, or a small group of people, to fulfill my need for friendship, connection, social interaction and love, now seems really unfair to me. Having more people in my life has increased the overall amount of friendship, connection, social interaction and love in my life, and that has had surprising and diverse benefits to my day to day experience.
posted by OrangeDisk at 10:15 AM on February 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I get why you'd be annoyed about the car thing--it's of course not her fault and she of course did nothing wrong, but I can easily see myself getting into this exact mess, whereupon I would be similarly outraged and similarly irritated that I'd have no right to be outraged. I definitely would be angry about the not-calling-you-in-the-hospital thing, too. What I don't understand is how the few friends you had got boiled down to this one fair weather carjacker friend.
"Until a decade or so ago I had a small circle of friends, but they were good friends. Then a neighbor I hadn't previously met invited me to lunch with her and her group of local friends, many of whom lived right in my neighborhood that I'd never met. With this group I made a few close friends"
Yeah, so what happened to them? What happened to the small circle you had until a decade or so ago and what happened to the few close friends you met through your neighbor? It's hard to see a pattern when we only have a single example. Did the others all burn bridges/activate your bridge-burning impulse, too, but their stories are less outrageous and that's why they got left out? Or have those friendships just been neglected a little, perhaps because of the pandemic, and you haven't reached out in a bit? Can you rekindle old friendships as well as making new ones?
posted by Don Pepino at 10:53 AM on February 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
"Until a decade or so ago I had a small circle of friends, but they were good friends. Then a neighbor I hadn't previously met invited me to lunch with her and her group of local friends, many of whom lived right in my neighborhood that I'd never met. With this group I made a few close friends"
Yeah, so what happened to them? What happened to the small circle you had until a decade or so ago and what happened to the few close friends you met through your neighbor? It's hard to see a pattern when we only have a single example. Did the others all burn bridges/activate your bridge-burning impulse, too, but their stories are less outrageous and that's why they got left out? Or have those friendships just been neglected a little, perhaps because of the pandemic, and you haven't reached out in a bit? Can you rekindle old friendships as well as making new ones?
posted by Don Pepino at 10:53 AM on February 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
I"m also confused about the car thing. To clarify: it sounds like you're the one ending the friendship over this? If that's the case, just... don't end the friendship. If you need help reframing it to be less resentful, frame it as she made wiser decisions than you, and being around people who make wise choices will also help you make wiser choices going forward. If you eliminate the people who are smarter than you from your life, you're stuck hanging around with stupid people. And is that what you want?
As for the hospital thing, the charitable way to read it is that she's a bit awkward and didn't know how to respond. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. But again, you're the one choosing to end the friendship. If you want friends, the simplest advice is, stop choosing to end friendships.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:59 AM on February 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
As for the hospital thing, the charitable way to read it is that she's a bit awkward and didn't know how to respond. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. But again, you're the one choosing to end the friendship. If you want friends, the simplest advice is, stop choosing to end friendships.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:59 AM on February 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think derrinyet has it - your friend didn't do anything wrong here - it's quite possible the price offered to you by the dealership was fair, the fact that she was able to get more selling her used SUV is besides the point, the fact that she decided to sell your SUV later - completely her business. I get that it may seem "unfair" but it's unfair in the sense that life is unfair - just like it's not fair that your COVID case resulted in a hospitalization, but it doesn't sound like your friend was scheming to rip you off or anything - they simply got lucky with the timing of their sales, while you were unlikely. You wanted to sell your SUV - whether you had sold it to your friend or the dealer, you would have sold it for the same price, and your life wouldn't have been any different. You note that this "fractured your friendship" but you're a bit vague here - are you omitting where you were cold or harsh to them? Because then I can see why they might not later come to your aid when you were hospitalized.
And like Don Pepino, I'm curious what happened to your original circle of friends, in addition to the rest of your neighborhood friends.
Anyway: there are limits to what I'm willing to accept should a friend 'cross' me in some form or fashion.
Based on your one example, I'd say it would be worth examining whether people have actually crossed you, or whether you simply feel crossed. As others have mentioned, sometimes it can be productive to hash this out with a friend, though other times it's really best to do this with a neutral third party. In this case, had you confronted your friend over your feelings of being crossed, it's quite likely that would be friendship ending.
posted by coffeecat at 12:12 PM on February 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
And like Don Pepino, I'm curious what happened to your original circle of friends, in addition to the rest of your neighborhood friends.
Anyway: there are limits to what I'm willing to accept should a friend 'cross' me in some form or fashion.
Based on your one example, I'd say it would be worth examining whether people have actually crossed you, or whether you simply feel crossed. As others have mentioned, sometimes it can be productive to hash this out with a friend, though other times it's really best to do this with a neutral third party. In this case, had you confronted your friend over your feelings of being crossed, it's quite likely that would be friendship ending.
posted by coffeecat at 12:12 PM on February 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
Something else to examine is that apparently the car thing is your Dad's fault?
Something that's helped me is to acknowledge that I'm allowed to feel crummy about things but I don't always have to figure out blame. Sometimes things just are what they are.
posted by freethefeet at 12:27 PM on February 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
Something that's helped me is to acknowledge that I'm allowed to feel crummy about things but I don't always have to figure out blame. Sometimes things just are what they are.
posted by freethefeet at 12:27 PM on February 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
You've raised three separate issues here:
You're maybe too hard on your friends.
You've had a challenge in one specific friendship, and you are trying to process that by telling us what happened and (maybe?) looking for feedback.
You are asking how to make more friends now.
So I'm not sure which you are really asking about. Given you dedicated most space to talking about the car and that one friendship, I suspect that is the true heart of your question. Do you feel like she took advantage of you? Or that you wanted to ask for more but were trying to help her out? Or do you feel foolish for not having asked for more? I can see why you might feel a bit foolish, but also... this doesn't have to be a reason to end a friendship. I don't think the lesson is "Don't do business with friends." I think the lesson is, "Do your due diligence" and "Think through how you'll feel if you sell something to a friend for less than you could get selling it to a stranger." And then just forgive yourself and talk it out with your friend if you need to, but not in a way that blames them for something. Unless they somehow pressured you to sell the car to them, but I didn't get that sense.
I'm sorry you're sick. It sounds like you really want your friend's support right now. You could try telling them directly, and asking for what you'd like.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:28 PM on February 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
You're maybe too hard on your friends.
You've had a challenge in one specific friendship, and you are trying to process that by telling us what happened and (maybe?) looking for feedback.
You are asking how to make more friends now.
So I'm not sure which you are really asking about. Given you dedicated most space to talking about the car and that one friendship, I suspect that is the true heart of your question. Do you feel like she took advantage of you? Or that you wanted to ask for more but were trying to help her out? Or do you feel foolish for not having asked for more? I can see why you might feel a bit foolish, but also... this doesn't have to be a reason to end a friendship. I don't think the lesson is "Don't do business with friends." I think the lesson is, "Do your due diligence" and "Think through how you'll feel if you sell something to a friend for less than you could get selling it to a stranger." And then just forgive yourself and talk it out with your friend if you need to, but not in a way that blames them for something. Unless they somehow pressured you to sell the car to them, but I didn't get that sense.
I'm sorry you're sick. It sounds like you really want your friend's support right now. You could try telling them directly, and asking for what you'd like.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:28 PM on February 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
You lost some money on the car to avoid confrontation. Not ideal but still seems like a choice you made, plus some bad timing, and if you can possibly find a way to set all of that aside as you assess the current state of your friendship I think you should.
So that leaves you with someone you speak to not terribly frequently, who failed to show concern at your illness. I’d feel badly about that too! But I think if I were trying to be less hard on friendships, I might either chalk it up to “maybe she was going through stuff at the same time” and let it go unless it happened again in the future, or to take one for Team Friendship and try at least once to express how I was feeling uncared-for.
So you maybe have some options here. But it’s also okay to let this one go and put that effort into new friendships. I find my friendships most easily online around shared interests, and then sometimes transition those to offline interests. Do you have any options there, if a class isn’t speaking to you? Any local events to go to?
posted by Stacey at 12:38 PM on February 20, 2023
So that leaves you with someone you speak to not terribly frequently, who failed to show concern at your illness. I’d feel badly about that too! But I think if I were trying to be less hard on friendships, I might either chalk it up to “maybe she was going through stuff at the same time” and let it go unless it happened again in the future, or to take one for Team Friendship and try at least once to express how I was feeling uncared-for.
So you maybe have some options here. But it’s also okay to let this one go and put that effort into new friendships. I find my friendships most easily online around shared interests, and then sometimes transition those to offline interests. Do you have any options there, if a class isn’t speaking to you? Any local events to go to?
posted by Stacey at 12:38 PM on February 20, 2023
apparently there are limits to what I'm willing to accept should a friend 'cross' me in some form or fashion.
In my experience, people who say things like that are people who don't draw boundaries with their friends in the first place when something bothers them ("hey, that bothers me"). Instead, they realise later that, actually, they're feeling used and actually they're upset and then they unilaterally end the friendship in a "you have crossed me, I will ban you for life" dramatic mindset. And they don't actually say so because they're still avoiding confrontation, so their ex friend has no idea they've been yeeted and continues on blithely with their life.
It's a position of deep powerlessness* and it makes you miserable.
I think you are often too "nice" to your friends: You instinctively put their needs before yours (like when you were offering the car to make your friend happy). You maybe don't even realise that it's happening. Maybe you don't know how to listen to your own needs because you've learnt not to.
And you're non-confrontational: You don't stand up for your needs when you do feel them.
And then you end up resentful.
You're not a good friend to yourself, you don't look out for and stand up for yourself. But I think this is what you'll need to learn how to do, before you can be a good friend to others - and have them be good friends to you.
*because it denies you all avenues of expressing your self
posted by Omnomnom at 12:49 PM on February 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
In my experience, people who say things like that are people who don't draw boundaries with their friends in the first place when something bothers them ("hey, that bothers me"). Instead, they realise later that, actually, they're feeling used and actually they're upset and then they unilaterally end the friendship in a "you have crossed me, I will ban you for life" dramatic mindset. And they don't actually say so because they're still avoiding confrontation, so their ex friend has no idea they've been yeeted and continues on blithely with their life.
It's a position of deep powerlessness* and it makes you miserable.
I think you are often too "nice" to your friends: You instinctively put their needs before yours (like when you were offering the car to make your friend happy). You maybe don't even realise that it's happening. Maybe you don't know how to listen to your own needs because you've learnt not to.
And you're non-confrontational: You don't stand up for your needs when you do feel them.
And then you end up resentful.
You're not a good friend to yourself, you don't look out for and stand up for yourself. But I think this is what you'll need to learn how to do, before you can be a good friend to others - and have them be good friends to you.
*because it denies you all avenues of expressing your self
posted by Omnomnom at 12:49 PM on February 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
I guess I'm not the nice, caring person I think I am. You don't have to talk to yourself that way. You can be a nice, caring person and still have disappointments and resentments. In the case of the car, you came to regret the deal you made and maybe you didn't like the way your friend handled the resale. (You don't mention if she said anything about it.) It does sound like you're ruminating a little and looking for places to assign blame which I think is just going to make you feel worse and prevent you from learning whatever there is to be learned from the situation and moving on.
posted by BibiRose at 1:45 PM on February 20, 2023
posted by BibiRose at 1:45 PM on February 20, 2023
If the friend's son is "very knowledgeable about everything to do with cars", perhaps he spruced up both SUVs before your friend sold them. He might have installed a better stereo, popped out dents, waxed the cars, and performed deep cleaning and detailing. Those could've contributed to your friend getting a better price on both SUVs. He also may have spoken knowledgeably to potential buyers about the condition of the SUVs, which increased the buyers' confidence and made them more willing to do a private-party purchase.
It likely took him hundreds (or thousands) of hours to build up this car expertise. It sounds like you're a bit envious that your friend got such better prices than you. But why shouldn't she and her son benefit from his investment of time in developing this car expertise? He was willing to extend his skills in the form of free help to you, when you called to verify the trade-in value.
You might be less resentful of your friend if you frame it as "she supported her son in investing time to build this skill, and they benefited from it via higher car sale prices".
posted by sandwich at 1:52 PM on February 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
It likely took him hundreds (or thousands) of hours to build up this car expertise. It sounds like you're a bit envious that your friend got such better prices than you. But why shouldn't she and her son benefit from his investment of time in developing this car expertise? He was willing to extend his skills in the form of free help to you, when you called to verify the trade-in value.
You might be less resentful of your friend if you frame it as "she supported her son in investing time to build this skill, and they benefited from it via higher car sale prices".
posted by sandwich at 1:52 PM on February 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think you should examine your thinking since you talk about selling your car for less but not about how that means you probably bought the car you got for less as well. You only focused on the one negative part (I sold for less than if I'd waited) vs. the positive (I bought a car right before prices spiked).
Do you see how that colors everything? I do that when I'm depressed, personally. I tell myself the absolute worst story about how I suck or people suck and ignore all other evidence.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 2:57 PM on February 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
Do you see how that colors everything? I do that when I'm depressed, personally. I tell myself the absolute worst story about how I suck or people suck and ignore all other evidence.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 2:57 PM on February 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think the car story is actually quite possibly a guide to why you might be having problems - there's a lot of blame for yourself in the story (that is entirely unwarranted) and what sure seems to be a tendency where once someone has "crossed" you, you view everything they do in a negative light, and things kind of snowball, to the point of actually being unfairly mad at them.
To wit:
I sold it to her for the price the dealership offered me, never even checking the private party price.
OK, I can see your point about how it would have been nice for her to offer something closer to the going private party sale price, but not only didn't you ask for that - which is NOT a HUUUUGE unforgivable failing on your part, stop blaming yourself - but for some people that's not how they see transactions between friends. I've got a buddy I've actually bought more than one car from, and had him work on my cars, and every transaction I'm literally shoving cash into his hand because his "friend price" is stupidly low. And in turn I've sold or even just outright given him some musical instrument stuff for a stupidly low price (or free). Buying your car for the same price as the dealer would have paid is the totally normal "friend" thing to do for a lot of people. You can't necessarily blame her for not giving you the going market price, if that's not how she approaches friend transactions.
So, OK, maybe it's on you where you should have been more assertive and asked for more money and is a thing you might want to work on. But after that?
A couple of weeks later she sold her older SUV with more miles for $5k MORE than what she bought mine for, so she had a free car plus more $$ in the bank.
Yes, and? There's a lot more to the value of a used car besides age and mileage, brand and model can be equally if not more important, and the value of any particular brand and model can vary a lot depending on location and time of year. You sold her your Golden Delicious apple for $5, she sold her Granny Smith apple to someone else for $8, it's not fair to be mad at her for that. That's largely not under her control nor a sign that she was taking advantage of you.
Well, I sold my SUV about a week before that news came out! Really bad move. THEN, friend sold my SUV about 6 months later because it turned out she didnt like it as much as she thought she did after all. Again getting top $$. So there was all of that.
All of what? A catastrophic worldwide collapse of work and manufacturing and production and supply lines? That nobody saw coming and none of us regular folk could have done much about anyway? Again, it's totally unfair to be mad at her for that.
I know it was all my doing,
And it's totally unfair to be mad at yourself about that too. It's NOT all your doing. Selling her your car did not actually cause her to have some subsequent transactions where she made out pretty well.
but it was just bad all around and definitely fractured our friendship.
Like others, I'll note that you haven't actually explained how this fractured your friendship. Did you actually tell her she took advantage of you? Did you say snippy things on her Facebook posts? Ignore her text messages? Give her the cold shoulder in the store?
If you did stuff like this then maybe you shouldn't be surprised that she wasn't very responsive to your COVID situation. And if you didn't then maybe the "fracture" was all on your side, but since you're mad at her you're inclined to view her response to your COVID news in the worst possible light.
I'm depressed, anxious, and very lonely. Due to my depression and post-Covid times dislike and inability to rejoin society, I'm stuck. Friendless.
Are you getting professional help for any of this?
posted by soundguy99 at 4:19 PM on February 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
To wit:
I sold it to her for the price the dealership offered me, never even checking the private party price.
OK, I can see your point about how it would have been nice for her to offer something closer to the going private party sale price, but not only didn't you ask for that - which is NOT a HUUUUGE unforgivable failing on your part, stop blaming yourself - but for some people that's not how they see transactions between friends. I've got a buddy I've actually bought more than one car from, and had him work on my cars, and every transaction I'm literally shoving cash into his hand because his "friend price" is stupidly low. And in turn I've sold or even just outright given him some musical instrument stuff for a stupidly low price (or free). Buying your car for the same price as the dealer would have paid is the totally normal "friend" thing to do for a lot of people. You can't necessarily blame her for not giving you the going market price, if that's not how she approaches friend transactions.
So, OK, maybe it's on you where you should have been more assertive and asked for more money and is a thing you might want to work on. But after that?
A couple of weeks later she sold her older SUV with more miles for $5k MORE than what she bought mine for, so she had a free car plus more $$ in the bank.
Yes, and? There's a lot more to the value of a used car besides age and mileage, brand and model can be equally if not more important, and the value of any particular brand and model can vary a lot depending on location and time of year. You sold her your Golden Delicious apple for $5, she sold her Granny Smith apple to someone else for $8, it's not fair to be mad at her for that. That's largely not under her control nor a sign that she was taking advantage of you.
Well, I sold my SUV about a week before that news came out! Really bad move. THEN, friend sold my SUV about 6 months later because it turned out she didnt like it as much as she thought she did after all. Again getting top $$. So there was all of that.
All of what? A catastrophic worldwide collapse of work and manufacturing and production and supply lines? That nobody saw coming and none of us regular folk could have done much about anyway? Again, it's totally unfair to be mad at her for that.
I know it was all my doing,
And it's totally unfair to be mad at yourself about that too. It's NOT all your doing. Selling her your car did not actually cause her to have some subsequent transactions where she made out pretty well.
but it was just bad all around and definitely fractured our friendship.
Like others, I'll note that you haven't actually explained how this fractured your friendship. Did you actually tell her she took advantage of you? Did you say snippy things on her Facebook posts? Ignore her text messages? Give her the cold shoulder in the store?
If you did stuff like this then maybe you shouldn't be surprised that she wasn't very responsive to your COVID situation. And if you didn't then maybe the "fracture" was all on your side, but since you're mad at her you're inclined to view her response to your COVID news in the worst possible light.
I'm depressed, anxious, and very lonely. Due to my depression and post-Covid times dislike and inability to rejoin society, I'm stuck. Friendless.
Are you getting professional help for any of this?
posted by soundguy99 at 4:19 PM on February 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
Take the class.
Volunteer somewhere.
Get yourself out of the house for new-to-you solo hobbies.
Join an app looking for friends and activity partners.
When you meet someone you like, be intentional about asking them to spend time with you outside of the activity. It's like dating.
Hard agree with this. (and also with ouroborous)
Here's the thing. The mechanics of how we make friends are actually *not* different from when we're children. Repeated, unstructured contact. It's just that we never engage in that as adults.
All of my friends as adults have come from the following sequence of events:
1) Engage in structured activity, can include work but mostly hobbies, volunteering, etc. Something that gives you a reason to have short to medium conversations with a range of different people spread over multiple occasions. A hobby class is perfect.
2) Semi-structured post-activity interaction with a subset of that group e.g. the fencing class goes to the pub after Tuesday practice
3) Repeat (2) multiple times
4) Eventually you know one or more people from 2/3 well enough that you can suggest doing something outside of the group context.
5) We Are Become Friends
This is actually how me all make friends in school as well. For many people, college is the last time they will ever have repeated, unstructured contact with the same people except for people from work and the parents of their children's friends - ergo it's not uncommon for people to find those are the only new friends they ever make as adults but this is not inevitable.
My mid-sixties mother is constantly making new friends through her pottery class, her drawing class, her violin group, etc.
Also: you need to realise that time only flows one way and that you will never, ever, make a new old friend.
Cutting an existing friend out should be a last resort, done when there are no other alternatives, it's not primary school where you can just make new friends again. I mean, you can, but not ones that knew you X years ago. As you get older, you might find that more and more important. I certainly have and I manage my friendships with people from when I was a kid very carefully because I know that no matter how much I "click" with someone, they will never be the kid I played SimCity 2000 with for the first time.
posted by atrazine at 8:39 AM on February 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Volunteer somewhere.
Get yourself out of the house for new-to-you solo hobbies.
Join an app looking for friends and activity partners.
When you meet someone you like, be intentional about asking them to spend time with you outside of the activity. It's like dating.
Hard agree with this. (and also with ouroborous)
Here's the thing. The mechanics of how we make friends are actually *not* different from when we're children. Repeated, unstructured contact. It's just that we never engage in that as adults.
All of my friends as adults have come from the following sequence of events:
1) Engage in structured activity, can include work but mostly hobbies, volunteering, etc. Something that gives you a reason to have short to medium conversations with a range of different people spread over multiple occasions. A hobby class is perfect.
2) Semi-structured post-activity interaction with a subset of that group e.g. the fencing class goes to the pub after Tuesday practice
3) Repeat (2) multiple times
4) Eventually you know one or more people from 2/3 well enough that you can suggest doing something outside of the group context.
5) We Are Become Friends
This is actually how me all make friends in school as well. For many people, college is the last time they will ever have repeated, unstructured contact with the same people except for people from work and the parents of their children's friends - ergo it's not uncommon for people to find those are the only new friends they ever make as adults but this is not inevitable.
My mid-sixties mother is constantly making new friends through her pottery class, her drawing class, her violin group, etc.
Also: you need to realise that time only flows one way and that you will never, ever, make a new old friend.
Cutting an existing friend out should be a last resort, done when there are no other alternatives, it's not primary school where you can just make new friends again. I mean, you can, but not ones that knew you X years ago. As you get older, you might find that more and more important. I certainly have and I manage my friendships with people from when I was a kid very carefully because I know that no matter how much I "click" with someone, they will never be the kid I played SimCity 2000 with for the first time.
posted by atrazine at 8:39 AM on February 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
My wife is very quick to pull the trigger on dumping a friend or relative, without ever confronting them on why she's dumping them. While it's usually over a valid reason for a conversation (one would never initiate contact, another rarely responded to texts), she simply blocks them without having a discussion. This means that over the years, she has fewer and fewer friends. I don't think I have one friend that I haven't got into an argument with over something, but I try to work it out before I dump them. For me, it's a case of being "happy" rather than "right". She is working on it, though.
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 9:19 AM on February 22, 2023
posted by Furnace of Doubt at 9:19 AM on February 22, 2023
I don't think I have one friend that I haven't got into an argument with over something, but I try to work it out before I dump them. ... I don't think I have one friend that I haven't got into an argument with over something, but I try to work it out before I dump them.
Furnace of Doubt's comment reminded me that one thing I've been working on in the past few years is trying to work through conflicts with friends. I haven't been one to dump people, exactly, but I have let friendships fade when I've been hurt (I don't think I've described this as being crossed, but it might be similar to what you're experiencing). Just as with intimate relationships, sometimes we have conflict with people we love, and we can build our relationship skills by working through this issues, but it requires some self-awareness and willingness to engage with our friends in a more vulnerable and emotional way.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:27 AM on February 22, 2023
Furnace of Doubt's comment reminded me that one thing I've been working on in the past few years is trying to work through conflicts with friends. I haven't been one to dump people, exactly, but I have let friendships fade when I've been hurt (I don't think I've described this as being crossed, but it might be similar to what you're experiencing). Just as with intimate relationships, sometimes we have conflict with people we love, and we can build our relationship skills by working through this issues, but it requires some self-awareness and willingness to engage with our friends in a more vulnerable and emotional way.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:27 AM on February 22, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
Volunteer somewhere.
Get yourself out of the house for new-to-you solo hobbies.
Join an app looking for friends and activity partners.
When you meet someone you like, be intentional about asking them to spend time with you outside of the activity. It's like dating.
Also like dating, there's a vulnerability required. You have to embrace the whole process, which sometimes includes rejection. You can say things like "I think we could be friends, would you like to go to [museum] with me next weekend?" You're not going to lose face by opening yourself up.
I am also a pretty hard person to be friends with, I think. I'm not generous, I cut people out when their values don't align, I'm stingy with my personal time, and I'm kind of mean. So I get it. You have to make an effort and own your own role in your relationships.
Also, if on reflection you feel you've burned a bridge with someone too rashly (e.g. for a stupid misunderstanding vs a values clash), reach back out to them. There's no harm whatsoever in saying "hey, I'm sorry I fucked this up, and I'd love to see you again if you're ready." See above re. vulnerability.
posted by phunniemee at 9:48 AM on February 20, 2023 [15 favorites]