Solar panels - what went wrong
February 17, 2023 9:09 AM Subscribe
We're considering getting solar panels for our home. What could go wrong?
We live in the Canadian PNW and use 17-18 MWh of electricity per year. We don't get much snow, but we got A LOT of hard rain and several big windstorms every year. We're interested in reducing our electric bills and saving money in the long term. We'd also like some power (fridge, cell phone charging, space heater) during somewhat frequent power outages and are looking into Enphase microinverters to create a microgrid without battery backup. Eventually we may want to add a battery to the system, but right now the costs vs. benefits don't seem worth it.
Incentives are a $5k grant or $40k 10-year interest-free loan.
We're getting estimates from installers and those will include information about how soon we'll make our money back.
We're interested in hearing about your experiences with solar panels and what went wrong and what to avoid. Our roof is about a year and a half old and we're especially concerned about putting new holes in it!
We live in the Canadian PNW and use 17-18 MWh of electricity per year. We don't get much snow, but we got A LOT of hard rain and several big windstorms every year. We're interested in reducing our electric bills and saving money in the long term. We'd also like some power (fridge, cell phone charging, space heater) during somewhat frequent power outages and are looking into Enphase microinverters to create a microgrid without battery backup. Eventually we may want to add a battery to the system, but right now the costs vs. benefits don't seem worth it.
Incentives are a $5k grant or $40k 10-year interest-free loan.
We're getting estimates from installers and those will include information about how soon we'll make our money back.
We're interested in hearing about your experiences with solar panels and what went wrong and what to avoid. Our roof is about a year and a half old and we're especially concerned about putting new holes in it!
I'm in Chicago, and we've had solar panels on our flat roofed house for five years. The roof was about two years old when we had them installed. Absolutely no complaints. Even in the dead of winter, when sunny days are rare, our electric bill is significantly smaller than it used to be. And for eight months of the year, it's $15.
posted by goatdog at 9:27 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by goatdog at 9:27 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
We don't get much snow, but we got A LOT of hard rain and several big windstorms every year.
Sounds like a recipe for a lot of hail. Solar panels do not like hail.
What does the manufacturer say about durability? What's the coverage if the panels are disabled by weather?
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:28 AM on February 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sounds like a recipe for a lot of hail. Solar panels do not like hail.
What does the manufacturer say about durability? What's the coverage if the panels are disabled by weather?
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:28 AM on February 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
We tried to get solar panels, but there wasn't a great amount of direct sun that they'd get (out neighbor to the south has a 2-story house and we have a 1-story house). We moved forward anyway. Then they inspected our roof and attic and determined that we didn't have the strength in our joists to support the panels properly. So no solar for us.
posted by hydra77 at 9:29 AM on February 17, 2023
posted by hydra77 at 9:29 AM on February 17, 2023
Best answer: First, with a recently-installed roof now is absolutely the right time to put panels on -- your roof has a limited lifespan, and when it gets too old you'll need a new one, which will require a contractor to come out, remove your solar panels, store them, and put them back on again once the new roof is installed. Things can go wrong with this.
...consequently, it is better if your panels and your roof are aging at approximately the same rate, just in case.
Another point: be careful with your battery decision, because it turns out to be surprisingly hard to add a battery to an existing solar system these days. I have a 9-panel system, and I have contacted four different solar battery manufacturers (including Enphase) only to be told that they won't sell me a battery -- in one case, their battery only works with their specific inverter so they can't connect to existing systems manufactured by anyone other than them within the last two years (because their battery doesn't work with their older inverters either).
In another case the company I used to install my existing solar system also declined the additional business, as apparently their battery system requires at least ten solar panels regardless of solar exposure or house power usage. Ten panels or it won't work at all. So, I inquire about adding the one panel I need -- nope! Turns out they won't install fewer than three panels. So I either spend several thousand additional dollars to add panels I don't need, or I can't get their battery backup either.
My only remaining option appears to be Tesla, which I'm not gonna fucking buy for obvious reasons.
...so think very carefully about whether you may EVER want a battery, and if you do then think about buying it now...
Lastly, make sure your utility company is willing to play ball with solar -- in my case they demanded that my solar system be sized such that it can never be a net generator of electricity. They would only allow the interconnect if they saw math showing that my house would always use more electricity than the panels could possibly generate. I dodged this bullet (even with my tiny array), by performing a bunch of efficiency upgrades shortly before getting solar, so when the utility looked at my historic electrical usage they saw numbers much much larger than what they'd be going forward, which allowed me to size my system to be net-zero without them realizing it. I also had to check a box saying that I was going to buy an electric car, which caused them to give me a bit more "slack" in their usage calculations.
posted by aramaic at 9:43 AM on February 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
...consequently, it is better if your panels and your roof are aging at approximately the same rate, just in case.
Another point: be careful with your battery decision, because it turns out to be surprisingly hard to add a battery to an existing solar system these days. I have a 9-panel system, and I have contacted four different solar battery manufacturers (including Enphase) only to be told that they won't sell me a battery -- in one case, their battery only works with their specific inverter so they can't connect to existing systems manufactured by anyone other than them within the last two years (because their battery doesn't work with their older inverters either).
In another case the company I used to install my existing solar system also declined the additional business, as apparently their battery system requires at least ten solar panels regardless of solar exposure or house power usage. Ten panels or it won't work at all. So, I inquire about adding the one panel I need -- nope! Turns out they won't install fewer than three panels. So I either spend several thousand additional dollars to add panels I don't need, or I can't get their battery backup either.
My only remaining option appears to be Tesla, which I'm not gonna fucking buy for obvious reasons.
...so think very carefully about whether you may EVER want a battery, and if you do then think about buying it now...
Lastly, make sure your utility company is willing to play ball with solar -- in my case they demanded that my solar system be sized such that it can never be a net generator of electricity. They would only allow the interconnect if they saw math showing that my house would always use more electricity than the panels could possibly generate. I dodged this bullet (even with my tiny array), by performing a bunch of efficiency upgrades shortly before getting solar, so when the utility looked at my historic electrical usage they saw numbers much much larger than what they'd be going forward, which allowed me to size my system to be net-zero without them realizing it. I also had to check a box saying that I was going to buy an electric car, which caused them to give me a bit more "slack" in their usage calculations.
posted by aramaic at 9:43 AM on February 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
I have an Enphase system, the ability to check your solar production is pretty nifty. Mine is connected to the grid, so there is no benefit during power outages unless I add a backup battery.
The only thing I've had go wrong was that part of my house's electrical system was out of code. The city would not approve the solar installation until that was fixed, which took a while.
posted by mersen at 9:48 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
The only thing I've had go wrong was that part of my house's electrical system was out of code. The city would not approve the solar installation until that was fixed, which took a while.
posted by mersen at 9:48 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love my solar panels. Right now, I have a negative power bill, meaning I am getting money back, but that is a long story. It's probably more relevant to focus on the summer months, where I pay the equivalent of 60 US dollars a month in electricity, and this is all for the fee for being on the grid. I don't think it would maje sense for most people to be off the grid.
I have a battery, and I feel it is necessary when you live in the north. I do get sun in the few hours it is up during winter, but if I didn't save it, I would not get any use. I mean, I am mostly working during daylight hours, and not doing laundry or cooking, not to speak of heating the house (I have a ground thermal heating system).
Right now in this moment, I am worried because there is a hurricane and I don't know if it will hold, but my panels are on the barn, so I normally don't worry a lot about the structural stuff.
posted by mumimor at 9:50 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have a battery, and I feel it is necessary when you live in the north. I do get sun in the few hours it is up during winter, but if I didn't save it, I would not get any use. I mean, I am mostly working during daylight hours, and not doing laundry or cooking, not to speak of heating the house (I have a ground thermal heating system).
Right now in this moment, I am worried because there is a hurricane and I don't know if it will hold, but my panels are on the barn, so I normally don't worry a lot about the structural stuff.
posted by mumimor at 9:50 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
15+ years of having rooftop solar PV: zero worries. Sometimes the snow slides off them kinda fast and scary I guess.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 10:04 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 10:04 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
If you are going to be taking the loan, is there any chance you might be moving in the next 10 years? Because the financial situation might get complicated if the buyer is not interested in solar panels on their roof, or if the loan is not paid off by the time you want to sell. (quicken loans link)
posted by Dotty at 10:16 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Dotty at 10:16 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
My only remaining option appears to be Tesla, which I'm not gonna fucking buy for obvious reasons.
I talked to Tesla about six months ago; at the time they weren't installing batteries on pre-existing systems. You could only get them with a new system installed by their contractors.
I've been casually looking for ways to upgrade my existing system--I could use a couple of new panels and would like a battery. It's been very difficult to find anyone willing to do this.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:23 AM on February 17, 2023
I talked to Tesla about six months ago; at the time they weren't installing batteries on pre-existing systems. You could only get them with a new system installed by their contractors.
I've been casually looking for ways to upgrade my existing system--I could use a couple of new panels and would like a battery. It's been very difficult to find anyone willing to do this.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:23 AM on February 17, 2023
[mr_roboto, I’ve MeMailed you a lead on an installer that may be able to help]
posted by aramaic at 10:59 AM on February 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 10:59 AM on February 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Make sure you get a legitimate installer who is doing well. There has been some news here about an installer, SunBadger, who just went out of business and a lot of customers are out a lot of money. Not something you’d expect to happen, but it is possible.
posted by Slinga at 11:09 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Slinga at 11:09 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
It’s become quite difficult to get existing solar panels serviced, at least around here. All the money is in the installation, so nobody wants to service them. We bought a house with some underperforming panels, and when we tried to look into getting them serviced, couldn’t find anyone. The company that had installed them on our house had been bought by Tesla, which is happening a lot from what I understand.
posted by bluloo at 3:05 PM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by bluloo at 3:05 PM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
We’ve had our solar panels since October. I see other installations in our neighborhood that don’t look good at all. The conduit shows and the panels are not flush with the roof whereas ours are very sleek and unobtrusive. The bottom line is that the installer you use definitely matters. The panel manufacturer matters too, in terms of the warranty. Thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act, you are eligible for a 30% rebate on the cost of a new owned system.
posted by DrGail at 3:34 PM on February 17, 2023
posted by DrGail at 3:34 PM on February 17, 2023
I've looked into this a bit, especially as my parents cover almost all their electric with solar panels. Lots of good things mentioned above. In addition to all that, I'd say that you should look into the logistics specifically. For instance, if you get a loan and you want to sell your house before the loan is up, what happens then? Also, I believe my parents' township (county?) has a solar incentive for the original purchaser that the utility company is required to buy any of your surplus electricity back at a high rate (in other words, you make a good profit), but that rate is not guaranteed for the next owner if you sell your house. Are there guarantees from the installer about performance, damage repair, etc.? I'd check into the specific panels, as I believe I remember reading that Korean panels are generally substantially better than Chinese.
posted by ClaireBear at 10:02 PM on February 17, 2023
posted by ClaireBear at 10:02 PM on February 17, 2023
Response by poster: Just want to gently point out that I’m in Canada, so things like the IRA aren’t applicable here.
posted by congen at 7:08 AM on February 18, 2023
posted by congen at 7:08 AM on February 18, 2023
I think your goals and motives matter. Being Green? Saving Money?
You say
We live in the Canadian PNW and use 17-18 MWh of electricity per year
That's 1500kWh /month which is quite a lot.
Going green: Most PNW electricity is hydropower, I believe. If so, getting solar panels won't really increase how "green" your household is. Hydropower is some of the best renewable energy around.
Saving money: Hydropower is also pretty cheap, so I doubt you'd be able to save much money by going solar.
Solar is a 20+ year committment.
Big question: Are you going to increase or decrease your usage?
Increase: perhaps you get an electric car, convert your furnace from gas to heat pump, etc.
Decrease: perhaps you have resistive electric heat and get a heat pump. Maybe your house is poorly insulated and you improve that...
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:21 PM on February 18, 2023
You say
We live in the Canadian PNW and use 17-18 MWh of electricity per year
That's 1500kWh /month which is quite a lot.
Going green: Most PNW electricity is hydropower, I believe. If so, getting solar panels won't really increase how "green" your household is. Hydropower is some of the best renewable energy around.
Saving money: Hydropower is also pretty cheap, so I doubt you'd be able to save much money by going solar.
Solar is a 20+ year committment.
Big question: Are you going to increase or decrease your usage?
Increase: perhaps you get an electric car, convert your furnace from gas to heat pump, etc.
Decrease: perhaps you have resistive electric heat and get a heat pump. Maybe your house is poorly insulated and you improve that...
posted by soylent00FF00 at 4:21 PM on February 18, 2023
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Most solar companies will do this now, I figure, but ask anyway about how you can use a device or an app to monitor your panels' energy production.
And definitely look into any further rebates or incentives that may be available to you from you local, provincial, or federal governments; from your local utilities; or from other agencies invested in energy efficiency. Such incentives may be even greater if you also install a battery array to store "excess" solar energy. I recommend looking into batteries, for sure.
posted by Dr. Wu at 9:21 AM on February 17, 2023 [1 favorite]