I want to go to there. But where??
November 17, 2022 8:27 PM Subscribe
Another "where should I move?" question.
I'm a single WOC approaching 40 with a somewhat location independent career wanting to plant roots somewhere I can find community, and be close to nature. Where should I go??
I've spent the better part of the year meandering and trying to find a place that feels like home. It's cool that I can work virtually (in mental health) but I'm eventually hoping to root down and have a physical office space to see patients bc let's face it, lots of people are having screen fatigue and they want to see their mental health professional in person. I'd like to be on the west coast due to family and frankly I grew up out west and culturally fit in better there. Being single, I find I have to work extra hard to make community, so ideally I'd live in a place where it's not impossible to do so.
Things that are important to me:
- I'm in integrative mental health and openness to this is important to me, so an area that is accepting of folks doing traditional mental health along with things like nutrition and acupuncture would be rad.
- A social scene where cultivating community won't be too hard for someone of my demographic. I've lived in Salt Lake City and though I loved it for lots of reasons, the predominant culture made it tough to feel like I could incorporate into it fully.
- A dating pool where I could connect with others in their older 30s/40s. See above about Salt Lake...I found it hard to make romantic connections there
- Nature. I started to discover a few years ago that - hey! I like nature! I love Alpine climates and love hiking and cross country skiing. Being close to these things would be awesome.
- Walkability. I used to live out East and loved not having to get in my car for everything.
Places I've considered:
The southwest - I grew up here in a large uninspiring metro (think Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc) but I do love parts of this region like southern Utah or some parts of norther AZ. Not being able to find like minded people and the impending water doom scare me away.
The PNW - I tried out Seattle and unfortunately that was in the sunny summer months. I get SAD so the dark winters scare me. The "Seattle freeze" (though I didn't encounter that at ALL in the summer) has me freaked too. Also...impending big one??
SoCal - so sprawling. I haven't really encountered any walkable areas. Not the nature I love and it's just so very expensive.
I know nowhere is going to be perfect and that sometimes it's a matter of deciding what location specific negatives you can handle, but I would love to hear any suggestions for places to check out! I would also be interested to hear how others made this decision (even if the solution is - just go somewhere already!) Thanks!
I've spent the better part of the year meandering and trying to find a place that feels like home. It's cool that I can work virtually (in mental health) but I'm eventually hoping to root down and have a physical office space to see patients bc let's face it, lots of people are having screen fatigue and they want to see their mental health professional in person. I'd like to be on the west coast due to family and frankly I grew up out west and culturally fit in better there. Being single, I find I have to work extra hard to make community, so ideally I'd live in a place where it's not impossible to do so.
Things that are important to me:
- I'm in integrative mental health and openness to this is important to me, so an area that is accepting of folks doing traditional mental health along with things like nutrition and acupuncture would be rad.
- A social scene where cultivating community won't be too hard for someone of my demographic. I've lived in Salt Lake City and though I loved it for lots of reasons, the predominant culture made it tough to feel like I could incorporate into it fully.
- A dating pool where I could connect with others in their older 30s/40s. See above about Salt Lake...I found it hard to make romantic connections there
- Nature. I started to discover a few years ago that - hey! I like nature! I love Alpine climates and love hiking and cross country skiing. Being close to these things would be awesome.
- Walkability. I used to live out East and loved not having to get in my car for everything.
Places I've considered:
The southwest - I grew up here in a large uninspiring metro (think Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc) but I do love parts of this region like southern Utah or some parts of norther AZ. Not being able to find like minded people and the impending water doom scare me away.
The PNW - I tried out Seattle and unfortunately that was in the sunny summer months. I get SAD so the dark winters scare me. The "Seattle freeze" (though I didn't encounter that at ALL in the summer) has me freaked too. Also...impending big one??
SoCal - so sprawling. I haven't really encountered any walkable areas. Not the nature I love and it's just so very expensive.
I know nowhere is going to be perfect and that sometimes it's a matter of deciding what location specific negatives you can handle, but I would love to hear any suggestions for places to check out! I would also be interested to hear how others made this decision (even if the solution is - just go somewhere already!) Thanks!
Looking at this WalkScore map, your key West Coast contenders are: San Francisco, Oakland, Seattle, Long Beach, L.A. Portland, Santa Ana, Honolulu, and Denver.
It seems that Denver ticks many of your boxes.
posted by oceano at 9:33 PM on November 17, 2022
It seems that Denver ticks many of your boxes.
posted by oceano at 9:33 PM on November 17, 2022
Walkability. I used to live out East and loved not having to get in my car for everything.
Not a recommendation or criticism of any particular place (or fellow poster!!), but I will say that I have found myself (against my intent) in the Bay Area and even here I find I can walk to as many grocery stores as I could in near west side Chicago (more, actually, but that's getting petty). I was expecting suburbia-of-the-suburbiest, and it turns out this place is nothing like Deerfield or Schaumburg (my Chicago suburb frames of reference), despite being widely described as a suburb.
...my point is, take care with generalized WalkScores and casual expectations. It's a valuable piece of information, and I genuinely find it useful when considering my next move BUT my idea of "walkable" appears to be substantially more long-distance than theirs. I thought this was straight-up gonna suck, and actually it may have been the best QoL move I've ever made.
I realize it's a PITA, so don't do this for every location, but once you've settled on a shortlist you may want to try cross-referencing dwellings (apartments, or houses, etc. as the case may be for you) with the necessary support infrastructure, because generalized things like WalkScore will elide some really important factors (again, like how I can get 100% of my daily life done by walking, with 2-3x per year needing a car, I am not kidding, my car is literally plugged in to a battery conditioner right now because I don't drive enough). I dunno, maybe actually "walk" through things using StreetView and the Google Maps walk-time calculator. Things like WalkScore are most valuable at the edges -- if they say something is a hellscape, it probably is. If they say something is a walking paradise, it almost certainly is. It's just in the 30-70% middle where things get tricksy.
posted by aramaic at 9:56 PM on November 17, 2022
Not a recommendation or criticism of any particular place (or fellow poster!!), but I will say that I have found myself (against my intent) in the Bay Area and even here I find I can walk to as many grocery stores as I could in near west side Chicago (more, actually, but that's getting petty). I was expecting suburbia-of-the-suburbiest, and it turns out this place is nothing like Deerfield or Schaumburg (my Chicago suburb frames of reference), despite being widely described as a suburb.
...my point is, take care with generalized WalkScores and casual expectations. It's a valuable piece of information, and I genuinely find it useful when considering my next move BUT my idea of "walkable" appears to be substantially more long-distance than theirs. I thought this was straight-up gonna suck, and actually it may have been the best QoL move I've ever made.
I realize it's a PITA, so don't do this for every location, but once you've settled on a shortlist you may want to try cross-referencing dwellings (apartments, or houses, etc. as the case may be for you) with the necessary support infrastructure, because generalized things like WalkScore will elide some really important factors (again, like how I can get 100% of my daily life done by walking, with 2-3x per year needing a car, I am not kidding, my car is literally plugged in to a battery conditioner right now because I don't drive enough). I dunno, maybe actually "walk" through things using StreetView and the Google Maps walk-time calculator. Things like WalkScore are most valuable at the edges -- if they say something is a hellscape, it probably is. If they say something is a walking paradise, it almost certainly is. It's just in the 30-70% middle where things get tricksy.
posted by aramaic at 9:56 PM on November 17, 2022
I am still very, very early in this journey and have only poked around the west coast so far. But from what I've seen so far, you might consider:
Midtown-area Sacramento. Hip and walkable, it's a highly-gentrified area with everything that comes with that, bad and good. Summer in Sac is fucking miserable during the days, especially with fires now, but it's relatively brief.
Bend, OR. The hippies have all been priced out, Bend is definitely no longer at its funkiest, but it is a spectacular area for access to nature, and the outer rural areas (that are still maybe 20-30m from Bend) are still more affordable and really gorgeous.
We just got to Eugene to spend the next month. You're right, it's real fuckin' dark here right now and we are using light boxes and Vitamin D, and we've only been here a week, but I really really like Eugene so far.
My opinion at this point is very much just whittle down to some place and go try it for a while. You won't know until you know. You can go somewhere else if you don't like it, and in the meantime you can explore anywhere within range to see if there's some other nearby place that really does it for you.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:25 PM on November 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
Midtown-area Sacramento. Hip and walkable, it's a highly-gentrified area with everything that comes with that, bad and good. Summer in Sac is fucking miserable during the days, especially with fires now, but it's relatively brief.
Bend, OR. The hippies have all been priced out, Bend is definitely no longer at its funkiest, but it is a spectacular area for access to nature, and the outer rural areas (that are still maybe 20-30m from Bend) are still more affordable and really gorgeous.
We just got to Eugene to spend the next month. You're right, it's real fuckin' dark here right now and we are using light boxes and Vitamin D, and we've only been here a week, but I really really like Eugene so far.
My opinion at this point is very much just whittle down to some place and go try it for a while. You won't know until you know. You can go somewhere else if you don't like it, and in the meantime you can explore anywhere within range to see if there's some other nearby place that really does it for you.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:25 PM on November 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm in my mid-40s and recently moved cross country from a beautiful but very conservative city in the west {Boise) and to a northeastern city (Providence) where I intend to put down roots. How did I choose the city? I wanted somewhere close to family (ageing parents in particular), a progressive city, and somewhere I could afford to buy a house. I have a partner so in a different life situation than you. I liked Boise and the stunning outdoors and had made some very good friends there, but had moved there for a job, and after I changed jobs to a remote position (spouse also works remote) there wasn't really anything keeping us there plus it never felt like home due to the culture and politics. I grew up in New England.
How did we choose a city? Affordability was a big factor and something I'd add to your list. We narrowed it down to a couple of cities about an hour from my parents, visited them both, driving around neighborhoods in our price range with walkability to shops, cafes, restaurants. We liked Providence best so we came for a couple of weeks to house hunt, bought a house, and moved here a couple of months later. It was kind of a bold move as we didn't really have any connections or friends. We are loving the house, the neighborhood, and the vibe (diversity! Great food! politicians who represent my views and care about human rights!) and it's really nice being close to family. Making friends is a struggle but I know it takes time and effort, and I'm sure we will get there. But I agree with the comments above that if there's a city on your short list where you already have some close friends that would be a great choice. My main factors in choosing a city were proximity to family, affordability, vibe/culture, and walkability. What I miss - having friends and nature, but hopefully the friends part will come. In your situation I'd make a short list of 2-4 cities, visit them over the course of several months, then pick the one you like best and go. Rent for a year or two to make sure you like a place and can build some local ties before settling more permanently. Good luck!
posted by emd3737 at 1:53 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
How did we choose a city? Affordability was a big factor and something I'd add to your list. We narrowed it down to a couple of cities about an hour from my parents, visited them both, driving around neighborhoods in our price range with walkability to shops, cafes, restaurants. We liked Providence best so we came for a couple of weeks to house hunt, bought a house, and moved here a couple of months later. It was kind of a bold move as we didn't really have any connections or friends. We are loving the house, the neighborhood, and the vibe (diversity! Great food! politicians who represent my views and care about human rights!) and it's really nice being close to family. Making friends is a struggle but I know it takes time and effort, and I'm sure we will get there. But I agree with the comments above that if there's a city on your short list where you already have some close friends that would be a great choice. My main factors in choosing a city were proximity to family, affordability, vibe/culture, and walkability. What I miss - having friends and nature, but hopefully the friends part will come. In your situation I'd make a short list of 2-4 cities, visit them over the course of several months, then pick the one you like best and go. Rent for a year or two to make sure you like a place and can build some local ties before settling more permanently. Good luck!
posted by emd3737 at 1:53 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
(For context, I am not a CA native but I did just spend 15 very consequential years of my life there. I thought it was my forever home, and maybe it will be again some day, but I had a complicated end to the long relationship that first took me to the state and ultimately moved out of the country on a journey much like yours. So, with that in mind as a caveat:)
Check out Guerneville and the Russian River Valley. Small towns galore, still pretty white, but it's sort of San Francisco's back yard so there's more than a little social flexibility that's hard to find in most small towns. It's super gay in the summer months, and has been for decades, which means that it's now pretty friendly to people year round who might otherwise feel like outsiders in small town USA. It's not alpine, but it's where coastal fog meets redwoods meets mountain forests. I love it and miss the entire area. Santa Rosa and its universe is an easy drive inland and is worth exploring in its own right.
You might also be interested in Grass Valley / Nevada City, CA. Similar vibes, but more of that alpine access that you've discovered. And things are happening that make me think your professional services would be welcomed in a place where change is happening and it feels good. Close enough to Sacramento (and the Bay Area) to have a lot of people from those worlds who've moved out for nature but still expect culture and services and non-homogeneity. Just as close to Lake Tahoe and the high Sierras and the Yuba River and, and, and...
Sigh... one day. Good luck on your search, let me know when you find it!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:08 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
Check out Guerneville and the Russian River Valley. Small towns galore, still pretty white, but it's sort of San Francisco's back yard so there's more than a little social flexibility that's hard to find in most small towns. It's super gay in the summer months, and has been for decades, which means that it's now pretty friendly to people year round who might otherwise feel like outsiders in small town USA. It's not alpine, but it's where coastal fog meets redwoods meets mountain forests. I love it and miss the entire area. Santa Rosa and its universe is an easy drive inland and is worth exploring in its own right.
You might also be interested in Grass Valley / Nevada City, CA. Similar vibes, but more of that alpine access that you've discovered. And things are happening that make me think your professional services would be welcomed in a place where change is happening and it feels good. Close enough to Sacramento (and the Bay Area) to have a lot of people from those worlds who've moved out for nature but still expect culture and services and non-homogeneity. Just as close to Lake Tahoe and the high Sierras and the Yuba River and, and, and...
Sigh... one day. Good luck on your search, let me know when you find it!
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 4:08 AM on November 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
Someone who knows better than l should make the case for cities within 100 miles or so of Chicago.
A guy follow on Twitter is forever having his wife drag him up one of the crags near, I believe, Phoenix.
posted by SemiSalt at 4:48 AM on November 18, 2022
A guy follow on Twitter is forever having his wife drag him up one of the crags near, I believe, Phoenix.
posted by SemiSalt at 4:48 AM on November 18, 2022
If You Could Live Anywhere: The Surprising Importance of Place in a Work-from-Anywhere World by Melody Warnick tackles this question.
posted by saturdaymornings at 7:17 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by saturdaymornings at 7:17 AM on November 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have some racist white relatives who live in the Grass Valley / Nevada City, CA area. My impression is that they are not the only Trumpy types there. Would strongly consider checking out the amount of support and community specifically for WOC in that region.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:11 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 8:11 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I agree that since you can WFH, you may as well try to plan some work-cations in various places and see what works for you. Try Seattle in the winter for a month, maybe you'll find with the right friends/hobbies/etc. it's manageable. I have moved around a lot, and have found it's hard to predict what a place will be like before going there - sure, various statistics will give you an idea, but cities that look similar on paper can still have distinct "feels" to them.
posted by coffeecat at 8:42 AM on November 18, 2022
posted by coffeecat at 8:42 AM on November 18, 2022
Response by poster: Thank you all for your responses so far, these are fantastic! I just wanted to add a few things
- re Affordability. I know the West in general is pricey so I didn't include it in my initial question, but yes this is important. (I have a metric ton of student loans and am just opening a business.) I know housing is a struggle pretty much everywhere now but are there any places that aren't quiiiiite as bad??
- Diversity is big for me as someone who is looking to be accepted in an area (I am not particular about this being the sole/main source of community or romantic partners for me, though) but I'm realizing that my mom may eventually move to be closer to me (still somewhere on the West coast.) Any areas with large South Asian communities would be great, if there are particular locations that stand out in this regard
My list of desires is growing I realize but I've really appreciated all the suggestions and thoughts so far, thank you!
posted by Eudaimonia at 9:49 AM on November 18, 2022
- re Affordability. I know the West in general is pricey so I didn't include it in my initial question, but yes this is important. (I have a metric ton of student loans and am just opening a business.) I know housing is a struggle pretty much everywhere now but are there any places that aren't quiiiiite as bad??
- Diversity is big for me as someone who is looking to be accepted in an area (I am not particular about this being the sole/main source of community or romantic partners for me, though) but I'm realizing that my mom may eventually move to be closer to me (still somewhere on the West coast.) Any areas with large South Asian communities would be great, if there are particular locations that stand out in this regard
My list of desires is growing I realize but I've really appreciated all the suggestions and thoughts so far, thank you!
posted by Eudaimonia at 9:49 AM on November 18, 2022
Telluride Colorado. It is the prettiest place in the continental United States that you can drive to on a paved road. Highest waterfall in Colorado, three creeks/rivers, cross country skiing, downhill skiing, ice skating, mountain biking, hiking, festivals all summer long, great central location for three day southwest road trips, historic opera house for movies and concerts and theater. Walk anywhere in town. Town sits at 8,750 feet and is surrounded by 12,000-14,000 foot mountains.
Yes, housing is very expensive and in short supply.
posted by Ministry of Truth at 10:12 AM on November 18, 2022
Yes, housing is very expensive and in short supply.
posted by Ministry of Truth at 10:12 AM on November 18, 2022
Flagstaff? Albuquerque? I haven't been to either in a long time.
posted by mareli at 12:23 PM on November 18, 2022
posted by mareli at 12:23 PM on November 18, 2022
Cheap, diverse, west coast: choose two. I think. Cheap and walkable don't tend to overlap much either, unfortunately, though perhaps there are smaller towns with walkable neighborhoods.
I'm pulling this from Wikipedia and highlighting southwestern and western locales:
South Asians are in higher concentration in California, Illinois, Texas and the Mid-Atlantic (namely, New Jersey and New York). As of 2012 the metropolitan areas with the largest South Asian populations are New York, San Francisco Bay Area, Chicago, Washington DC, Los Angeles, Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston. The states containing the fastest growing metro areas with 5,000 or more South Asians are Washington, California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina and Florida.
As of 2017, the top 3 locations for Bangladeshis in the U.S. are New York (96,000); New Jersey, California, Michigan (15,000); Texas (13,000). The top 3 locations for Indians are California (464,000), New Jersey (253,000), and Texas (233,000). The 3 locations for Nepalis are Texas (16,000); New York, California (12,000), Virginia (9,000). The top 3 locations for Pakistanis are New York (65,000); Texas(56,000), California (49,000). The top 3 locations for Sri Lankans are California (12,000); New York (6,000); and Texas (5,000).
I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe it's worth exploring where the South Asian communities are in Texas and if any of those are in closer-in, walkable neighborhoods?
posted by bluedaisy at 12:27 PM on November 18, 2022
I'm pulling this from Wikipedia and highlighting southwestern and western locales:
South Asians are in higher concentration in California, Illinois, Texas and the Mid-Atlantic (namely, New Jersey and New York). As of 2012 the metropolitan areas with the largest South Asian populations are New York, San Francisco Bay Area, Chicago, Washington DC, Los Angeles, Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston. The states containing the fastest growing metro areas with 5,000 or more South Asians are Washington, California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina and Florida.
As of 2017, the top 3 locations for Bangladeshis in the U.S. are New York (96,000); New Jersey, California, Michigan (15,000); Texas (13,000). The top 3 locations for Indians are California (464,000), New Jersey (253,000), and Texas (233,000). The 3 locations for Nepalis are Texas (16,000); New York, California (12,000), Virginia (9,000). The top 3 locations for Pakistanis are New York (65,000); Texas(56,000), California (49,000). The top 3 locations for Sri Lankans are California (12,000); New York (6,000); and Texas (5,000).
I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe it's worth exploring where the South Asian communities are in Texas and if any of those are in closer-in, walkable neighborhoods?
posted by bluedaisy at 12:27 PM on November 18, 2022
I have a close friend who lives in Colorado Springs. That place is beautiful and with a diverse community. The nature is wonderful, all kinds of beauty there and near there. It has a nice feel, she is in an interracial marriage, and there is good community. There is plenty of medical there and a granola type healing community.
posted by Oyéah at 7:13 PM on November 18, 2022
posted by Oyéah at 7:13 PM on November 18, 2022
There's several places to consider in Colorado (not mentioned yet are Longmont and Fort Collins).
posted by drlith at 7:19 AM on November 19, 2022
posted by drlith at 7:19 AM on November 19, 2022
I would give parts of SoCal another look. In particular I wonder if someplace in or around San Diego might work for you. Some of the older, central city neighborhoods are quite walkable and I know people who live there car-free, although having a car will make your life a lot easier. There is definitely work and community available in traditional mental health as well as integrative health and wellness practices. The local climate is not alpine but there is a huge range of natural areas available within driving distance, including mountains with winter snow. Having easy access to so much outdoor activity, especially hiking, is one of the things I really miss about living there. The population is majority White and Hispanic but there's a visible South Asian community, as well as significant numbers of people with a Southeast Asian, Pacific Islander, or East African background.
posted by 4rtemis at 7:26 AM on November 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by 4rtemis at 7:26 AM on November 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Affordability is tough, but Oakland/Berkeley otherwise checks a lot of boxes. You can do lots of hiking in the hills here (and even take the bus to some!), but snow sports mean traveling to the Sierras.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:49 AM on November 19, 2022
posted by oneirodynia at 8:49 AM on November 19, 2022
I came in to say Bend, OR, which ticks most of your boxes but affordable it ain't. Eugene or Salem might be slightly - very slightly - cheaper and still pretty great. But then, there's New Mexico. How about Santa Fe or Albuquerque or Taos? I ended up in Astoria, Oregon after my own Askme years ago and I love it here, but it's probably too small of a city and a dating pool for your needs. After a year traveling around the US, New Mexico was a close runner up. I loved it there and I think it meets all your needs. If I hadn't been determined to be near salt water I'd probably be living in Santa Fe now.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:13 PM on November 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:13 PM on November 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
That said, I do think one thing worth considering that you didn't mention is: is there a place that has a particularly large concentration of your good friends? If community is a priority, you can absolutely get there on your own...but given what you said, if there were a city that already had say...3+ close friends (or family, which you mentioned), I'd seriously consider prioritizing that. Of course if you don't have that (which I can understand! my friends are super spread out), then we will see what other people say :)
Also, as someone who despises moving, has moved way too much, and totally understands wanting to find somewhere to put down roots...I still think it's really important to remember that wherever you choose next doesn't have to be "the place." This isn't to say that you shouldn't invest in that place...I think you should find a place, go, and commit to making it work. Because it will be hard wherever you go, and building community takes time and energy and investment. BUT, if it doesn't work out...you can move again. So like you said, there is no perfect place. Find a place that feels good and go and commit to making it work. I never thought that the place in my life where I'd have the most meaningful community would be...a small city in China. But it is! So really, I think that attitude counts for a lot. Choose somewhere and commit to making it work, then do your damndest.
I think something that can help with that is at the start, write down some concrete "if X happens, I can leave." Because otherwise I think it's too easy to rationalize, which is something that has happened to me personally as well as friends trying to find a lot of the things you want. They move, find it's really hard, and start blaming the place. Alas, "wherever you go, there you are." So like, I think "abortion is illegal" is a totally fair thing to write down as a non-starter. I'm not saying that's relevant to you, I'm just giving an example of the type of thing that could go on the list, because in some scenarios, even if you go in with the right attitude, there could be big surprises that force you to leave. But otherwise...find somewhere and commit to making it work. I promise you that any decent metro area will have at least 3-10 people who can be your people, if you put in the work to finding them...as well as spaces that, with some elbow grease, can become community. But I do think it's really worth prioritizing the places where friends already are.
posted by wooh at 9:11 PM on November 17, 2022 [1 favorite]